>>324145991 Archie used to have a million different super transformations but they all got thrown out about 9 years ago. Super Sonic himself hasn't appeared out of the Mega Man crossovers in about 8 years.
>>324146797 The only "new" ones were in Secret Rings and Black Knight, neither of which have appeared outside those games.
Hyper is canon, Knuckles says during the FINALHAZARD that he doesn't have enough energy to use his super form, alluding to the fact he's gone Super previously, which needed the Super Emeralds.
>In before Shadow said that line!
Shadow only says that line in the dub because they fucked up. In the original Japanese, Knuckles says it, and Shadow is in his fucking super form when he says it which should clue you in that a mistake was made.
>daycare during summers in elementary school years >they have a genesis with sonic 3 >the group I hanged with was full of "beat the elite 4 100 times then you unlock mewthree" type kids >"you know anon if you get 200 rings you can become purple super sonic" (basically they thought there was a super sonic for each emerald color) >a few weeks later >taking turns >my turn >get 200 rings >"LOOK GUYS I GOT 200 RINGS!" >still normal super sonic >"oh I forgot, it was 210 rings anon" >
>>324148823 >>324148794 Iam pretty sure Sonic and Shadow needed to turn super in order not to kill himself or get himself easily killed since most of the end bosses surround themselves in areas/fight in out of livable areas that could stop or kill sonic on a normal bases if he tried
for example, regular sonic wouldn;t survive trying to beat the bosses in space, on liquid lava, a rip through a mystical dimension or time, and the sky over a dark bottomless pit..
>>324149770 It's a video game. Sonic only "needs" Super Sonic because the plot said so, because the developers wanted to make a Super Sonic fight. Look at Colors. They could've designed the final boss so you're flying in space and have to beat it with Super Sonic, but they chose not to.
>>324154217 The last time super sonic was used great as a last resort to fix the problem at hand was unleashed. And everyone complained that it sucked and that running around laps chasing an egg nega and clones forever is a better final boss
>>324153752 Iizuka confirmed Super Emeralds were gone as of Adventure and likely won't be returning.
Also, has said only male hedgehogs can go super with the only exception being Blaze. Head writer of the Archie Sonic comics states that is the case as well, since he has to follow general mandates from SoA/SoJ.
>>324154589 Well they're probably talking about the split boss battle gameplay between fun, fast Super Sonic and slow as fuck all, anchor feet Light Gaia.
The cinematics and suspense during the transformation was good, but it could have been better. I have a vision of a SSJ type transformation (but less dramatic of course) when Sonic just goes ape shit, but again, ST is too lazy for that.
>>324154963 Actually unleashed had a dual type of fight: werehog vs eggman while spiraling down the center of the earth, and super sonic/light gaia against dark gaia.
>>324155130 I like the weighty feel of light gaia since it feels like its a really heavy object and portrays how far away they are from dark gaia. And darting around the shield taking out the snakes with all the action in the background was great
>>324154861 >06 >half assed side scroller boss >Generations >unfinished "its a homing attack" frustrating controls boss
Now you're just being ridiculous anon. Unleashed boss was very complete and did something fun and different. Homing in at high speed and destroying the weak spots around his force field was fun as fuck, and that Xx50 QTE was well placed.
The light gaia parts were shit yeah, but still better than those 2.
>>324148590 Knuckles uses the chaos emeralds to go super. The super emeralds turn him into Hyper Knuckles. The only aesthetic difference is that he leaves after-images. He also has a screen-clearing abilities.
If Sonic can use Chaos Control like Shadow did in SA2 why does he charge into shit like a retard when he's in Super Form instead of doing something like a Chaos Blast or Chaos Spear or Chaos Anal Rupture
>>324154831 >>324147390 Super Emeralds aren't gone. The title "Hyper Sonic", no longer exists. But ever since Sonic 3&K, Sonic's Super form has been the same as his Hyper form. Sonic's Hyper form is what allows him to defy gravity. Regular Super Sonic only makes him invincible. That's why Hyper Sonic gets the double jump. And that's why Hyper Sonic can propel himself in space, or even just in the air.
The chaos emeralds were powered up when brought in the presence of the Master Emerald. Turning them into super emeralds. But in reality, the "super" emeralds are just emeralds restored to their normal form. So it becomes unnecessary to refer to them as "super", when they're in their normal state.
Hence, it's unnecessary to refer to Super Sonic as "Hyper" Sonic. When his hyper form, is really just the true Super form.
>>324161393 Wrong. If you play S&K separately or finish S3&K with all Chaos Emeralds and having not gone to the shrine after Launch Base (which is hard but possible), Super Sonic goes through Doomsday Zone.
And besides that, Super Sonic was bound by gravity in Adventure 1 too.
>>324154217 What? No. Super Sonic was the best when you could transform as him at any time, so long as you had 50 rings. People loved Super Sonic because it was a reward for the player. After mastering the game, you are then allowed to exploit it with this super cool form.
Sonic Team needs to actually make Super Sonic properly playable again. Stop shoving him at the end of the game with the bullshit cartoon drama to try and make it seem more important.
Make it another fun reward for the player FIRST, and then if they want to do the story bullshit second, then fine.
>>324161963 I don't count gameplay considerations to dictate the canon. If you hook S&K to Sonic 2, then you can play Knuckles in Sonic 2. That doesn't make Knuckle's venture in the Sonic 2 world canon. Similarly, only playing half the game wouldn't make Super Sonic in Doomsday canon. Nor would skipping the completely intended shrine sequence count as canon either.
Especially considering the mural in the shrine, of Sonic fighting Eggman. I doubt the mural was depicting Sonic using the power of the emeralds in their depleted forms.
>>324162116 Super Sonic has been playable in every main game since 2010 and has only been a final boss exclusive in 1 of those games in the past 6 years. You clearly have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
And you're very wrong if you think that in any game, regardless of the tone or audience, it doesn't need to have an enticing story.
>>324162894 I'll admit, I haven't fully played a Sonic game Since 2010. I dabbled with Colors and Generations. That's about it. So sorry if I'm wrong about those games. From what I'm aware, You can transform into super forms in those games, except Super Sonic will automatically fly through regions. So you're not really playing as him. You're just kind of summoning him, and he does his own thing.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
>And you're very wrong if you think that in any game, regardless of the tone or audience, it doesn't need to have an enticing story. I believe in developing player action first, and then building a story around that. Not the other way around. I feel like if your levels aren't built to handle Super Sonic, then they're probably shittily designed level. That would mean that you didn't take the time to actually give the player any real control.
I don't care if developing Super Sonic takes away from the story. I would rather have more things to do, than worry about how many cinematics play at the end of the game.
>>324164348 It's really not far fetched to think that Sonic Team intended the story to take place over both games, and for the player to go to the shrine. I doubt Sonic Team is so dull minded, that they would find such a thing too complex to consider.
>>324162874 Except the only reason why the Super Emeralds and Hyper Sonic/Hyper Knuckles/Super Tails exist in the first place is because S3&K was split into two games instead of released as one as intended. This is why they were retconned now because Sega treats S3&K as a single game instead of two. Hyper Sonic and the Super Emeralds simply do not exist, they were added as a neat bonus as an apology for not releasing it as a complete game and nothing else.
>>324164776 Let's say the game did come out as a single package. From what you're suggesting, that would mean they intended to only have 7 emeralds across all the levels. And the whole thing with the shrine powering up the emeralds were never supposed to happen.
That sounds too far fetched. It makes more sense to me that they planed the whole thing with the emeralds from the onset.
>>324164412 In Colors you have 100% control over him and stages are even slightly adjusted just so that you don't have to use Wisps to progress. In Generations you have most control over him, he only flies if you boost and that's only over certain sections. In Lost World, you have 100% control over him.
And all you were asking for is for him to be playable in stages again. Why can he not be playable in stages and have worthy suspense for a final boss? I don't understand how me wanting him to have proper cinematics get in the way of being playable in stages.
>>324165182 >From what you're suggesting, that would mean they intended to only have 7 emeralds across all the levels. And the whole thing with the shrine powering up the emeralds were never supposed to happen. Correct, that was the original intention.
>>324165182 No it doesnt. S3&K was always supposed to be one game but there was space and time problems. The order of levels is messed up because of this, sonic 3 complete shows the original order they wanted but didnt have the time for. they went crazy with the fanservice as an apology.
>>324165271 >Why can he not be playable in stages and have worthy suspense for a final boss? I didn't say he can't. Don't get so defensive. I said. >Make it another fun reward for the player FIRST, and then if they want to do the story bullshit second, then fine. I was stating what I believe to be the order of priority. If he's already playable, then fine, I don't care if he gets a stupid dramatic final segment.
>>324165318 >>324165469  True or not. It still doesn't change the final product. Where Sonic gets a hyper form and the emeralds are powered up. Things change throughout development all the time. Originally, Sonic was considered to be a human. And then that changed throughout development. Now he's a hedgehog. And that's that.
I am aware that they were originally intended to be a single game. However, just because they were meant to be one game, doesn't mean they only intended to have 7 special stages. I'm arguing that they most likely plotted the Emerald sequence ahead of time. And already considered 14 special stages.
>>324161393 >The chaos emeralds were powered up when brought in the presence of the Master Emerald. I can't believe I'm saying this, but doesn't literally the opposite happen in Sonic Adventure 2? They bring the Master Emerald to the replica of the shrine so they can nullify the Emeralds?
>>324166241 Good question. I was hoping someone would ask. The Master Emerald is the "controller". It can be utilized to control the energy of the emeralds. The Emeralds are actually powered by the earth, as explained in Sonic Unleased. However the Master Emerald still has control over energy the emeralds are allowed.
>>324166174 I haven't stated any false information. I have only noted the evidence that is in the games, and informed you that these details do not conflict with each other. Certainly, if the author says the super emeralds aren't real, then who am I to argue? But I would also say that despite what the author says, he hasn't written any conflicting information in the story yet.
>>324167352 >Super Emeralds aren't gone. False. They have never appeared outside of S3&K while Chaos Emeralds have appeared in almost every other game, being referred to specifically as Chaos Emeralds and not Super Emeralds.
>ever since Sonic 3&K, Sonic's Super form has been the same as his Hyper form False, at no point as Super Sonic ever looked like Hyper Sonic in any of the games.
>Sonic's Hyper form is what allows him to defy gravity. Regular Super Sonic only makes him invincible. That's why Hyper Sonic gets the double jump. And that's why Hyper Sonic can propel himself in space, or even just in the air. False for two reasons. First off, as mentioned before you can play Doomsday Zone as just Super Sonic, so Super Sonic can fly through the air. Second, as mentioned before Super Sonic is still bound by gravity in Adventure 1, so if Super Sonic was the same as Hyper Sonic that would not be the case.
>>324167758 Did you not understand the part of the post about why things are called what they're called? The Super Emeralds have appeared in every Sonic game since S&K. Only they aren't called "super" emeralds. They're merely called emeralds, because their "super" form, is actually their standard form. When returned to their shine, their rightful place, they revert back to their original form. They are only called "super", as a way to distinguish them from their previous form.
Visually, the emeralds were all round before. But now they're in that diamond shape. Ever since they turned super, they have kept the same shape.
>at no point as Super Sonic ever looked like Hyper Sonic in any of the games Design change. They also turn Sonic's eyes red since Sonic Adventure. Design is inconsistent.
>as mentioned before you can play Doomsday Zone as just Super Sonic As explained before, that's just a gameplay consideration.
>Second, as mentioned before Super Sonic is still bound by gravity in Adventure 1 "Defy gravity" doesn't necessarily mean "free flight". I never said hyper has free flight. I said he can propel himself in air. Hyper can move freely in space, because there is no gravity up there. However, on ground, he can only move in the air for limited bursts. Regular Super Sonic, while fast, doesn't actually have any means to propel himself in air.
>>324168817 >The Super Emeralds have appeared in every Sonic game since S&K. Only they aren't called "super" emeralds. They're merely called emeralds, because their "super" form, is actually their standard form. When returned to their shine, their rightful place, they revert back to their original form. They are only called "super", as a way to distinguish them from their previous form. Literally none of this is supported by the games and is your personal headcanon.
>Visually, the emeralds were all round before. That's what they look like from the top-down genius. Heroes proved this by showing them from the top-down and they look exactly like how they did in the Genesis games. They've just started showing them sideways with the switch to 3D.
>As explained before, that's just a gameplay consideration. >"Defy gravity" doesn't necessarily mean "free flight". I never said hyper has free flight. I said he can propel himself in air. Hyper can move freely in space, because there is no gravity up there. However, on ground, he can only move in the air for limited bursts. Regular Super Sonic, while fast, doesn't actually have any means to propel himself in air. This is just you saying gameplay only counts when you personally say it does, which is an invalid argument. Nothing about this is supported by the games, just your own personal headcanon.
>>324169409 http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_3_manuals >Dr. Robotnik tricks Knuckles, the guardian of the Floating Island's Chaos Emeralds. http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_%26_Knuckles_manuals The manuals supports the idea that the chaos emeralds are native to Angel Island. >Knuckles has problems, too. As Guardian of Floating Island and all the emeralds, Knuckles has a mission -- to wage war on all invaders.
Returning the Emeralds to the island is their rightful place. Therefore, it can be reasonably deduced, that when the emeralds are returned to their shrine, they are reverting to their standard state.
>That's what they look like from the top-down genius I knew you were going to say that. However, that's not true. because in Sonic 2, when you are in a special stage and approach an emerald, you don't see it's diamond shape. You see it's round shape. When they turned into super emeralds, it just so happened that they could design the topside to appear like the old emeralds. And they looked like diamonds since S3&K
>This is just you saying gameplay only counts when you personally say it does No, I'm making the logical argument that both games together, with the shrine sequence is the intended way to play that game. And the other ways are variations they've allowed for the player to experience. you're making the illogical argument that skipping all the super emeralds is equally valid as collecting all the super emeralds. Super Sonic, post Sonic Adventure, has been shown to have limited flight while inside of the atmosphere. Coincidentally, Hyper Sonic in S3&K has increased acceleration when in air, and the ability to double jump. But before he turned Super, he was never shown doing any gravity defying feats.
>because in Sonic 2, when you are in a special stage and approach an emerald, you don't see it's diamond shape. You see it's round shape. >round
It never was "round" in Sonic 2. Also, you have take the geometrical shape of the Chaos Emeralds in the proper chronological context lore-wise. In Sonic Adventure, the Chaos Emeralds had that diamond shape for thousands of years since Tikal's time.
>>324172595 I'm just calling it "round" for lack of better term. It's got 6 sides, so that's round enough for me.
But think about it. Why would the supposed top side of the emerald be facing the screen like that? In that perspective, wouldn't it make more sense to show the emerald right side up, so you can see it's diamond shape?
In Sonic Adventure, they show the emeralds enshrined in Tikal's time. But who is to say what happened to them in between. Clearly, for at least two games, they didn't take on the diamond shape. Perhaps they change form over time? I don't know.
>Less sprite work from a personal perspective. Plausible answer, I'll give you that. However, if they only had one angle to draw, why draw the angle that doesn't fit the special stage. Considering they went out of their way to produce that 3D effect. Wouldn't they want to show the good angel of the emeralds?
>In Sonic 3 right before you collect one of the Chaos Emeralds in the Special Stages, you can see that the Emerald is lying on one of sides. It's not lying on it's side. It's standing straight up. In Sonic 3 and Knuckles, they go out of their way to make a visual distinction between regular emeralds and super emeralds. https://youtu.be/M0vS3fX8t1Q?t=97 Notice the super emerald is in all of it's diamond glory.
whereas the regular emerald is shown to be rounded. https://youtu.be/stv39YJVqvg?t=94
>Perhaps they change form over time? >They do. Sonic 3D is one example I meant story wise. Perhaps there is a reason for why they change form. I can't say I'm familiar with Sonic 3D. But I get the sense that that game's emerald design wasn't a story-conscious decision. I could be wrong. But that's the feeling I get.
However, in S3&K, the diamond shape was a very clear transformation. Their old form and new form was meant to be taken as two distinctly different things.
Face it: the idea that the emeralds merely changed angle, is nothing but a long held headcanon. Debunked by actually observing the information provided in the games.
There are people...who seriously care this match about how many edges the chaos emeralds have? Guys please stop perpetuating the autism meme, youre making those of us who just play the games to have fun look bad
>>324160074 He probably could do it, but it seems like he doesn't really like using Chaos powers unless he has to. Besides, why bother trying to use powers you don't practice with when ramming shit works fine?
>>324179247 actaully it was the best/most memorable part of the fight for me, just for how ridiculous it was compared to the other qtes in the game the fight should have been a mix of the ps2/wii version with these qte as the final part though
>>324177023 >>324177189 You being adverse to information, doesn't make everyone else autistic. This is just what happens when two people who know their shit, happen to have a minor disagreement. Instead of resorting into shitflinging because you have no knowledge to back up your statement, you can actually back up what you say with facts.
>>324179639 Me to. it was like platinum levels of crazy, it was just fucking cool and silly to see. wasn't there another qte that took 99 presses? I feel like the qtes made sense in the day stages since they were all about speed and reaction but hated how finishers for the werehog were tied to qtes. The werehog combat qtes seemed REALLY fucking fast for some reason
I disagree with the last gen version though. everything in that game is shit. It makes me sad how that was made just to recoup losses for the HD version and yet people actually say it was better. Unleashed HD is fucking great though
>>324180098 You are in a thread where the topic is to weigh the pros and cons of sonic having a new super form. What did you expect to see here?
I'm perfectly aware how petty it is talk about the sides of the emeralds. But that kind of discussion is only petty when compared to real world issues. By entering a Sonic thread, you have indirectly shed any pretenses that real world issues matter. We're in fantasy land right now. Where anthropomorphic blue hedgehogs run at sonic speeds, to defeat egg shaped super geniuses.
In that context: I think it's fair to discuss the shape of the super emeralds.
You need to have some self awareness, before you start getting all holier than thou. You're in this thread too. You're not above this.
>>324156958 This right here, Tails was the only one that required the Super Emeralds to transform because he can't tap into the regular Emeralds
>>324146480 The other one Archie comics had was Ultra Sonic. which happened when Sonic tapped into some kind of Ring energy. This also worked for Tails as well. I don't think it's canon anymore since the reboot on issue 252 though
>>324180969 Why do you care if it's nerdy? Is that supposed to mean something bad? Yes, it's nerdy. Because nerds play Sonic games. We're just having a discussion about video games. And sharing information. Sorry we're not talking in the special way that's fun for you. But I'm having fun comparing knowledge.
>>324181092 We're ruining the thread, by actually discussing the topic? I don't understand. This thread is about Sonic's super forms. And we're talking about Sonic's super forms.
>>324181406 Tell me what's autistic about it. Specifically.
>>324180349 i would have prefered playing not-punch out with dark gaia rather than pressing those slow as fuck qtes, and that's after getting closer to him at a snail speed THREE TIMES, and that's if you don't fail that "fight" (it was kinda neat at first because it shows the scale of the area, after all you're at the center of the earth problably we went from apotos to empire city in distance while reaching him, inmediately playing as sonic and hit him in the eyes was great though) the same goes with the boring destroy the shield as super sonic later, i was so hyped to break his shit, but then it was "lol destroy the shield sanic, let me fight him in the meantime", and then i see the fight in the ps2/wii version, which is not that good, at least it let sonic make more damage.
>>324181607 do you remember Quentin and how he'd make silly strawmans of neckbeardy manchildren playing 3DS games in public and what not
you're what he was trying to make us avoid
but you know what? i'll bite. the sheer depth and detail you're both going into is what makes it autistic. it's overanalyzing something the developers didn't even care enough about to be consistent with and trying to act like your personal feelings and ideas are true canon.
>>324181951 However in the comics the Ring power is how Tails turned to Hyper Tails, because the comics didn't have a stable canon back then. Damn going back to some of these old issues makes me glad the reboot happened in 252
>>324181658 To me it just looks so static and boring on the ps2/wii version. You line up, waggle a little and punch out his eyes till hes dead. I feel like the hd version is much more varied, actually using the temples the chaos emeralds were stored in as a platform to safely reach dark gaia and get upclose to hit his eyes. Charging towards dark gaia in the mech also felt really heavy which like you said, helped show the distance between sonic and dark gaia.
The shield part was kind of disappointing sure but it still felt good to dart around and fuck his tentacles up while chip was in the background 1v1ing him (even though that shouldve been you). The camera and scenery was really good in the last part. I dont care for the punch out mini game and shit feeling like sonic is doing more because it wasnt. It was side scrolling with the temple mech and countering him rather than a variety of mechanics from sonic and the temple mech combining to take dark gaia down.
Thats just me though, I cant think of one good thing the ps2/wii version has over the HD one but I guess the common opinion sees otherwise
>>324181937 Yes, I remember Quentin. I didn't pay him much mind. But every now and again, I'd look at the comics for a laugh.
You would have a point, except for the fact that we're not in public. We're on /v/. This is the place to nerd out, and go whole hog into whatever you're interests are.
But even more: I only contributed to the conversation as much as the other anon reciprocated. It's not like I just went into a random thread and started talking randomly about Sonic's super forms, and the emeralds that govern them. I stumbled into the thread where that kind of discussion is appropriate. And replied to the person who might be interested in knowing what I know.
If you don't care for the discussion we had, then you could have hidden it at any time.
As for the accusation of "overanalyzing" see >>324167235 Again, I never said my beliefs are above the developer's. Only that the developers haven't written contradicting information yet.
It would be like if you changed your name from Bill to Joe. Everyone knows that your parents named you Bill. Everyone knows that Bill is on your birth certificate. But you go by Joe now. Well, alright. I will call you Joe from now on. But you're not going to convince me that your name was never Bill. Just because you had a change in identity, that doesn't erase your history.
>>324183319 I used to think autism was in insult. Until I saw the good things that come from autism. Now I never correct anyone. You don't know how awesome autism is, until you see the half A press video.
>>324183601 True. But if I'm not some sticky fingered disabled person, then what do I care if someone calls me autistic? I'm autistic because I enjoyed playing Sonic, and now I have a pretty decent knowledge of the games? Alright. I'll take it. Who cares. I can school everyone on Sonic without trying. This shit is fun.
Sonic Adventure 2, because of the feels and because Sonic and Shadow working together to take on the big evil was enjoyable for me as a kid. Another tie is Generations because of Modern Sonic and Classic Sonic working together was just bad ass
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