>>324005739 not really, you can do good as any champ and by the time you hit lvl 30 you should have your rune pages filled out pretty easily if you're really impatient you can unlock champs with money but that doesnt give you an advantage, same with buying rune pages since all you really need is an ad page and an ap page and obviously skins make no difference on gameplay whatsoever
>>324006102 how is it grinding if you are literally just playing the game? i mean there are methods to grind (completing bot matches as quick as possible over and over) if you really want to but you don't have to by any means
>>324006362 i dunno, at 30~ mins a game the ip just kinda adds up if you play a bunch also it depends on the champ, the older they are the cheaper they are, and the cheapest ones should only take a couple games the new ones are expensive as fuck and take a while though
>>324006449 ive spent like 5 bucks on lol for some skins and tried getting into dota but just couldnt, the gameplay mechanics seem a lot cool but also way more complicated and I just dont feel like putting in the time to learn another assfaggot
>>324006671 yeah, rito are kinda cocksuckers about that and probably just want people to spend rp on them so they an do good for like a week before they get nerfed. they even jacked up the prices on champs right when they are released for a week too
>>324006767 >>324006671 forgot to mention that new champs are almost always banned in ranked/draft pick because of that reason so even if you shell out for them you can only play them in blind pick unless somebody else picks them first
>make a new account >level it to 30 >on the way to 30 I get enough IP for a full runes for an AD and AP rune page >I get enough IP for 6 champs that I mainly play >play these 6 champs all the way to diamond >win without paying or grinding
>>324006671 Bard, Tahm, Lucian, Gnar, Azir, Vel'Koz, Yasuo and Aatrox were all considered weak on release. In the case of Tahm, Gnar, and Yasuo they all received massive buffs after their perceived weakness and proceeded to become cancer picks.
Lucian has generally fluctuated from being mediocre to being very strong depending on the current adc itemization and how strong other adcs are.
the latest champion released on live servers, Illaoi, is hot garbage. there's not really a malicious intent behind new champions being unbalanced, it's just riot being shit at balancing until their players tell them what to do by complaining.
>>324007859 I feel like we just cycle through the same posts each thread. Runes are cheap as fuck, you considering you unlock one slot per level, you can easily afford them immediately just by playing the game normally.
>>324007937 No it doesn't because not everyone you're going to play against has the exact same amount of ip earned as you.
Assumed your retarded logic did make any fucking sense, your in game advantage would raise your MMR and have you playing against better players so you're still going to be at a reasonable level compared to others in your game.
>>324008116 It does not equate to that because I'm not talking about rank, I'm talking about hidden MMR rating. Rank isn't even part of this because you WILL have filled rune pages by the time you can even access ranked queues regardless of IP boost bonuses. Like everyone else.
Its only p2w if a player who pays real money can achieve higher stats or gets any advantage over a player who plays the game. League doesn't provide any advantage to players who pay money at level 30 because you will have unlocked every runes by then. Playing a 6300 champion won't make you better as the game is balanced so a 450 ip champion will perform just as good. This means league isn't pay to win by definition.
>>324008317 Having more champs to choose from means that you can more options, which means that you can pick the option that fits the game- your team setup, their team setup, your or their gameplan, the meta, or your playstyle- the best
Not really. You can play for free and be on perfectly even ground with other players unless you come upon a situation where your low champ pool limits you, but that comes pregame and you can just play team builder
But dota will always be objectively better in the not pay2win sense if that's what you are trying to say
There isnt a single MOBA that isnt p2w apart from DotA. SMITE is, LoL is, Paragon will most likely be and so on. It simply is accepted among the players, I personally dont see whats bad about it.
The only problem is the fact that people keep acting as if their games werent p2w. They are like MMO and TCG players by now. If theres gear being sold in an MMO people will still claim for it to not be p2w as long as you can farm the gear ingame. TCG players arent capable of admitting that their entire genre relies on p2w practices. People simply are too proud to admit that they might enjoy a p2w title so instead of accepting that they do, the fucking claim that their games arent.
Just accept that the game you play sells ingame advantages for real money. After doing so you can say 'however, their impact is incredibly limited' (like it is in LoL) and there you go. No one can say that youre wrong but at least youre being honest for once in your pathetic fucking life.
>>324008504 >If 2 players have the exact same amount of skill and are playing the same champ, the one who spent real money will have an advantage over the other Not in a game with eight other people in it.
You're theorycrafting based on perfect conditions that rarely exist.
>>324008689 >. It simply is accepted among the players, I personally dont see whats bad about it. Doto and HoN show that it isn't necessary to have such a system to sustain yourself Thus you're getting shafted for no benefit
>>324008560 He's right. Advantages or no, you're playing only against people you're capable of beating roughly 50% of the time, and any thought of advantages you can get by ip boosts are out the window by the time you're level 30. These advantages count for nothing when it comes to rank or playing at a reasonable level.
>>324008728 >Doto and HoN show that it isn't necessary to have such a system to sustain yourself Now lets compare the profit margins for Dota, HoN and LoL and I am pretty sure that we will come to the conclusion that it is indeed necessary in the eyes of a company. Hell, the only reason Valve was financially able to take that risk was because they make money off of Steam.
Riot didnt have that option and cant just change the system now. What the fuck would their players think? They burned hundreds of dollars for champions and all of a sudden they are free? NO way in hell they would accept that. I mean, I dont play LoL but farming all characters with a fresh account probably takes you like 5000 hours now.
>>324006671 Quinn and Vel'koz were fairly balanced or slighty weak on relase and they took long or never got actual buffs. Vel'koz kinda found his way in some guys but wuinn is udnerpicked as fuck even after rework. Riot doesn't want that to happen again so they just make champ at least slighty stronger than balanced so they get popularity and then get nerfed.
Can't say I approve this but I understand the idea.
>>324009093 depends, but the situations where you can't, and specifically the situation you described is fairly rare. The first dota 2 game I ever played I sucked ass but one nice brit/american and a cool russian encouraged me to keep getting better and helped me learn the ropes.
you have to buy runes with IP, the same currency used to buy heroes. so if you want heroes and also want to be on equal footing with everyone else, you need to buy them with real money. being able to play more heroes means being more versatile means being better. that's p2w
>>324005739 Yes it's P2W. Those rune things make it P2W until you can actually farm them if you don't want to pay.
I was a noob starting out the game and some guy had bought Darius. During the time I played LoL Darius was considered broken and was worth 7k points. Now, I could either spend money on a P2W hero or grind my way through it.
There used to be a time when every hero in League had a place. but then e-sports needed to be the hot new thing so Riot had to balance but they don't know how to balance so they said "Fuck it" and changed all the old heroes to have the same skills as the new ones do but with different paint
so now you have league of why the fuck am I even playing this?
It's pay2notgrind. As others already said in this thread you can't gain any gameplay advantages by paying real money.
Anyone who says it's P2W doesn't know how LoL works or doesn't know what P2W actually is. It would only be P2W if you could buy champions or runes others can't get through playing the game without paying anything.
>>324013991 >you picked (unpopular champ) ???? ffs troll >TOP LANE, I SAID IT FIRST >you picked (champ that doesnt usually go in this specific position) to play jungle??? ffs report this troll >other team gets first blood early on, "gg report my team" "surrender at 20"
anything that deviates from the norm slightly gets shot down. you cant even antagonize the enemy team without getting banned
>>324013862 Few years ago when I played it, it was really annoying and I'd get mad every second match I'd play. Now I simply stopped arguing with people and if someone starts talking shit I just simply ignore them and 3 minutes later they stop whining and crying. I only play ranked and I'm only Silver division and out of at least 25 matches I played this week maybe in 1 there was dude who was afk and in 1 there was some annoying faggot that was whining constantly and 5 minutes later I get notification that he got banned or something. Other 23 matches were really fun. Point of this games is to stop trying too hard and taking videogame as your job and simply enjoy it as you would enjoy any other multiplayer game or even singleplayer game . That way even if your team is badly losing you will still be chilled and have a good time.
tl;dr game is fun as long as you don't take it too seriously
This what I hate most about LoL. It has to be one of the most 'serious' games you can play. It's obviously just a symptom of being locked into a game for 30+ minutes, however that does excuse the amount of no fun allowed.
>>324007039 Dota does indeed look like garbage. Thought I was playing cod the first time I fired it up with its brown on brown color scheme, 600*480 HUD and colored blobs for champs. I kept wanting to scroll out.
The mechanics of dota obviously are interesting and there is more than lol but some of the complexity is just for its own sake and isn't needed.
>>324014613 >complexity is just for its own sake and isn't needed.
and i dont see how the color scheme is dull. yes the dire side of the map is dark, its supposed to be a contrast to the radiant side. it blows league out of the water graphically, and it doesnt even have amazing graphics
Average about 90 a match plus 150 for first win of the day. So if you play two and a half hours a day, you can expect it to take roughly two weeks to unlock a 6800 ip champ. New rune sets cost about as much as a champ, but you only need so many. On the other hand IIRC, you can only buy extra rune pages with real money which is bullshit.
Before I quit, I had played approximately 1000 games and had 30-40 champs to show for it without paying money (I doled out for a couple of skins and the aforementioned rune pages, but I never recall paying for a champ). I doubt I spent more than 20 bucks on it over the three years I played, and that was fine.
>complexity is just for its own sake and isn't needed.
Having many exceptations between item and spell interaction is a literally a feature though, it's what makes dota 2 worthy successor to the original. Remove those and the game would become a lot worse.
Give or take. If I'm remembering right, the tiers are 450 ip, 1150 ip, 1650 ip, 3150 ip, 4800 ip, 6300 ip, and at around the time I quit, they started setting a higher price on newly released champs for the first week or two they were out before being set at 6300. The ip pricing has more to do with the age than power (though Riot can't into balance so there are always a million OP fotm pieces of shit in 6300s).
All that said, the rate of unlocks was never a large turnoff for me, since I usually got at least as many hours out of the champs I unlocked as it took for me to earn the IP for them.
>>324005739 The rate they pump out champions, all for 6k+ IP to buy probably makes it rather difficult for someone to ever get a full collection. Doesn't sounds entirely pay to win but how fucking long would it take to unlock everything without spending money?
>>324008053 holy shit I haven't played that in so long. I used to play that and some other browser "online" thing where you made a deck of cards or something, but I can never remember the name of it. I think it started with an E.
It's taken itself too seriously, maybe because of the tournaments having millions of viewers, when in reality the entire community could be summed up as a chubby 13 year old with anger issues that gets pullied every day but has no balls to stand up so he just acts tough in game chat.
>>324005739 League doesn't have any true counters like DotA 2 has. Sure, you might face a enemy with a skill that can negate yours, but you can always work around it if you play smart. Not like in DotA where you have no counterplay.
The IP, runes, experience, and champion buying system exists solely to nickle-and-dime you, the consumer, and encourage you to purchase things using real money in this free video game to gain a tangible gameplay-affecting bonus. This is absolutely inarguable, as none of those systems have any reason to exist otherwise. Whether this is pay2win or not is irrelevant, the important thing is do you consider it healthy for a game to do this? Is it good for video games to try to squeeze money out of you based on your desire to progress faster and unlock alternate playing styles?
>>324017096 You're right, I realized I forgot about the aspect of encouraging you to keep playing with the transparent Korea-approved method of GRINDING as soon as I hit Post. The goal is the same in the end, though. They want your $$$
>>324013713 People hate them because idiots who find them fun are usually complete asshats and refuse to acknowledge the many legitimate complaints about the game. Like I play HotS because its mindless fun but I know how oversimplified it is and how shit its business practice is.
>>324005739 Can you in any way transfer money in game to the developers/publishers/owners after the initial obtaining of the game for anything other than expansions that segment the community based on who owns what?
If yes the game is the plague and needs to be avoided at all costs.
>>324005739 League might be if there was any kind of strategic depth to picks. You just read the latest patch notes, see who has the best scaling ratios, and pick them. Tanky deeps top, AP carry mid, AD carry and support bottom, and a jungler. It's an insult to the concept of strategy.
It's alright for them to do whatever they want to their product, but that's beside the point. What people really mean by 'damaging the end-product' is 'business model that includes me.' What you want is to enjoy a game paid for by other people through shit you don't care about.
If I go up against a well synergized team and me and my 4 other poorfags can only pick from the current pool and the current pool only has gimped easily counterable champions then we fucking lost because of this shitstain of business model
>But you can still win with the heroes you've got It doesn't matter, I was restricted because I didn't have cash and it would have been objectively better if I had had more options
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