>>324001885 I thought his ideas were justified in his perspective but generally wrong. He felt as if he was wronged by the AL Bed because of Chapou and how they kidnapped Yuna during the Blitzball tournament.
What was a big kicker is when he learned Rikku's heritage. That internal conflict he had with himself was actually pretty cool.
>Be Wakka >Live in Spira, an island continent haunted by Aqua-Satan >Worse yet, live in Besaid, a tiny island on the very southern tip of Spira >Live on an Island, a body of land surrounded by water on all sides >Aqua-Satan lives in the water >have to sail 12 hours to get to the next civilization >Having to sail on water, which is where Aqua-Satan lives >Understand that Aqua-Satan was created by the cumulative Sins of everyone living in Spira and is there as a punishment to cleanse everyone who is creating more sin >Understand that Monsters, that plague my home island, are made out of the angry feelings of people in Spira >It's my job to protect my people and not stray from my Religion
>Be Wakka's brother >Have to kill these stupid hate monsters all day or get killed >Just want to play the only sport I'm allowed to play >Sometimes wonder about playing videogames or jacking off without worrying that Aqua-Satan will murder everyone I love >Al Bhed shows up >'We Kill the Aqua-Satan with guns' >But guns are illegal according to Aqua-Satan >So? >Yeah whatever lets just shoot hate monsters and Aqua-Satan >Die terribly
>Be Wakka >Filthy Al Bhed scum ruined their heavily forested island with a giant death robot >Filthy Al Bhed are probably the reason that 50% of Aqua-Satan is still here and still kill people >Filthy Al Bhed talking their twisted dialect and rubbing their atheist shit all over my beautiful island while none of us want to go to their piece of shit desert
I can understand an opposition to Bevelle's militarism but its hard to argue against their religion when Aqua-Satan seems to play ball with all of their strange religious rules. Sin even takes care to not directly interfere with the Summoner's pilgrimage, he skates by on the way to Kilika but doesn't really do anything to your boat, then the next times you see him are because other people lured him out or because of Jecht fuckery.
The Al-Bhed are really an out of place people and I'm not sure I entirely understand their role in the history of things. Are they the native born Spirans? They do have spiral eyes. Yet we don't hear anything about them during the Bevelle~Zanarkand War. Were they a Bevelle outpost who got stranded by their government and developed that really weird and warped dialect?
I'm surprised more people don't just sort of figure these things out during whatever religion school they have. Everything is made out of Pyreflies, every monster is someones really shitty birthday party made manifest. Fayth are some unsent guys really cool idea of a monster, or something like that. Guardians stick with their summoner, I'm sure some of them had to see Yevon infest the Grand Summon after it died and probably went home and was like "Man, that shit was weird". Hell, only one Guardian is needed for the ritual, why aren't there more people with Auron's "fuck this shit" outlook?
>>324008382 The Al-Bhed were on their island during the Bevelle Zanarkand war. They had no involvement but 1000 years later have progressed to be "those heathens" since they still use machina.
Guardians don't have any mention of surviving the final summoning. It's told to the player that Summoners die as a result of summoning it, but surviving guardians are never mentioned. I'm sure a big part of why Auron is so renown as the greatest guardian who ever lived is because he (seemingly) survived the defeat of Sin.
>>324008382 Maybe the reason Sin didn't interfere with the pilgrimage was because Jecht wanted Tidus to succeed. We never really see anything to do with other summoners except that one bitchy one with the one guardian. That other summoner also says that it's unusual for summoners to have many guardians, she has one and Braska had two so those are probably the norm.
>>324008274 >>324008347 Bevelle was a big military super power and ended up in a war with Zanarkand, a bunch of summoning hippies. Zanarkand was losing pretty hard so they all went up on their favorite mountain and summoned Sin through Yevon.
Remember that weird wall on Mt. Gagazet where there were a bunch of people feeding some mysterious energy to somewhere? Well that's the entire Nation/City of Zanarkand coming together to create a single Fayth: Sin.
Yevon summons Sin from inside of Sin and goes out and starts winning the war.
In response to Sin's arrival Bevelle developes a giant piano operated Mothra Robot to destroy the planet A pissy teenager tries to steal it and they end up deciding to not use it after all.
Somehow Bevelle decides to create this weird religion based around Sin, taking anti-war machine propaganda to heart. Yunalesca starts the tradition of the Summoner Pilgrimage by turning her husband into a Fayth and having him kill Sin and have his Body become the New Sin. I assume that Sin is as non-violent and as passive as possible while the Guardian is still in control and then less so as time goes on. Jecht was reaching the point where he could no longer control himself and needed that song to calm his shit
1,000 years later the game happens.
My guess is that Yunalesca probably married the leader/prince of Bevelle, converted everyone and then had her loving husband sacrifice himself for her benefit. It would make sense in an Anti-Yuna kind of way, where she welcomed marriage and her position.
>>324009426 >In response to Sin's arrival Bevelle developes a giant piano operated Mothra Robot to destroy the planet >A pissy teenager tries to steal it and they end up deciding to not use it after all. I don't remember any of this. When is this explained?
>Yevon's Sin and Bevelle's Vegnagun had the same function: React to weapons/aggression/war, and destroy it. Vegnagun never got used. Sin did, ultimately winning the war. >Teedus status of being real is a dream? Because he came from the idealized version of Zanarkand that Yevon wanted to keep him and his forever "sleeping" people in. However, Shuyin was from the REAL version, which wasn't so happy peachy keen, and thus led to the whole "break into Bevelle and try to steal their anti-Zanarkand Big Bug" idea.
Thus Wakka's remarks of "Sin attacks machina, to keep us from becoming lazy" is half true: Sin was a defensive weapon with limited ability to discern what machina is for warfare. Yuna's line of "Sin appears where lots of people gather" is also true: the reason Luca flourishes is the Blitzball stadium. Anywhere else that would get a large population could be interpretted as an army, and thus, a threat to Zanarkand.
But then I'm still at a loss for how Bevelle retains such a massive scale and other things. Some stuff just withers under the lights, I guess.
>>324009256 I imagine that they're probably killed, either by Bevelle Death Squads or Yunalesca.
Having so many Guardians for Yuna was almost a joke to some people, they even made fun of her for it.
>>324009657 FFX-2. Go read the wiki and save yourself the headache
>>324009867 It was weirder reading the guys justification for how eventually Spiran's develop space travel and go to FF7 planet instead of learning that Spira was just Wutai or something.
I don't mind the Farplane~Lifestream connection because I kind of get the feel a lot of the FF worlds share sort of the same cosmology. Like in FF4 it's possible for Humans to Transcend into summonable beings, kind of like how Fayth's operate. It happens once in FF5, and a whole lot in a weird way in 6. Granted theres not really any "The Planet is Alive" bullshit in those games either.
>>324010182 The Guardians used for the new Sin have a little bit of control over the sin vessel. Because Beveille is the homebase for the religion, I would pressume the Guardian avoids taking sin there
>>324009987 The FF wiki doesn't reveal anything about him either.
Only that he and Yunalesca hugged a few times and that he's FFX-2's version of the Omega Weapon.
He's got a weird Samurai-style outfit though and I know that Bevelle kind of acts like a tyranical Shogun outfit sometimes.
I don't think inferring a parallel between Yuna's political marriage and Yunalesca is too far of a stretch. It would kind of give Yunalesca's decision to start turning couples into giant fantasy monsters more of a leg to stand on. But just like the under-water airship graveyard a in the middle of the ocean, I guess we'll never know what the fuck that was about.
>>324010182 I just checked the wiki and apparently Sin does these things to keep Dream Zanarkand safe. The wiki flat out states that the people on Gagazet are summoning Dream Zanarkand far far away out in the middle of the ocean and Sin is just there to break shit and keep people from developing motorboats or commercial airplanes in case anyone finds it.
But that seems silly to me, I always thought of Dream Zanarkand as being something that was hidden inside of Sin. You literally fight Jecht on the same Blitzball platform that Auron takes you from into Spira.
>>324010182 Mind you, Yu Yevon only cared about the Dream Zanarkand. The first thing Sin destroyed was the real Zanarkand, which spooked Bevelle so much they eventually agreed to adopt the Yevon worship.
Back when this game came out, nobody faulted Wakka for his outlook on things. Fast forward 2016 and what happened to peoples' way of thinking?
You guys know Wakka was right right? >Right about Operation Miihen, historically only summoners have beaten Sin >Right about not trusting the Al Bhed; they kidnapped Yuna, twice >Right about standing by his faith and questioning his leaders because he knew they were wrong >After finding out the truth on the Al Bhed, quick to apologize, make amends, and start over, cooperate with them, and fight alongside one another >Right about bringing Tidus to Luca >Right that Chappu should have brought the sword instead of the single shot rifle
He questions, but he has his beliefs, and his job. Also he broke the Aurochs' losing streak, so if you can't beat the Luca Goers, he already beat the Al Bhed Psyches, aka the most overpowered blitz team, with a level 1 team.
He's a dumb loud dudebro. There's tons of people like that who are racist in real life, it's actually a pretty good example of characterization for a Japanese game, usually characters don't have much going for them aside from "blatant stereotype" and "blatant stereotype 99% of the time, with a single interesting twist that pops up right when you can't stand the character anymore".
>>324011342 The wiki claims "Zaon and Yunalesca escaped Zanarkand's destruction together", and then attribute this information to Machean, the old story telling guy, but I can't find his text dump anywhere.
Before Yuna's pilgrimage did Wakka have a real job besides blitzball player? How are the blitzball teams funded? Do they all have sponsors, are they all volunteers, or are they publicly funded? How are the summoners funded for that matter?
>>324015105 Well, sin is a shell of armor manifested by Yu Yevon, protecting the dreaming Fayths who have created a false and peaceful Zanarkand for his people to live in. The machines were only as bad as the people who used them. Sin went out of control. Nothing it does has anything to do with Yu Yevon's teachings.
>>324015682 FFX had a really great setting, and a lot of good character moments.
I mean sure, there were a few scenes that you don't want your parents walking in on you, and most people aren't 14 year old japanese school girls totally mesmerized by the underwater kiss scene, but the game wasn't FUCKING TERRIBLE.
It was just the most overtly teen/japanese pop culture seated game until FF-X2. I mean, FF8 was almost a highschool drama, and FF9 was fucking cartoony while the rest of the FF games were at least mostly about adult characters doing adult military shit.
The vast majority of Summoners die. Like, most of them bite it. It's a huge plot point, the Al Bhed are trying to stop the madness.
There is also that bitch summoner who said it was rare for a summoner to have more than one guardian. Auron was an anomaly. I imagine he only survived through sheer force of will as he was essentially a ghost.
>>324017483 The Al Bhed knew that the end result of the Pilgrimage was that the Summoner died and kidnapped them to prevent them from continuing their journey.
There wasn't a mysterious Bevelle assassination squad out to kill the other Summoners. Only in the international version does Bevelle send out some crazy Dark Aeon squad to kill you, and thats mostly an excuse to have you fight harder versions of the summons.
Auron literally survived through sheer force of will, thats how you become an Unsent in the first place. Yunalesca and the head of Bevelle were both unsent. I think Omega was technically an unsent, he just decided to never pass and became a crazy super monster.
Seymour was an unsent, apparently if you can manipulate pyreflies you can do whatever the fuck you want in Spira.
>>324017974 >Apparently if you can manipulate pyreflies you can do whatever the fuck you want in Spira. That's one thing that bugged the hell out of me when playing the HD version. Those things do literally everything: >make up Sin's body, Aeons, the Unsent, fiends, Dream Zanarkand >allow you to breathe underwater >make videotapes >project ghosts >condense water for summoning rituals and blitzball They're the nanomachines of FF.
Yo, Chappu! Meant to come see you earlier, ya? Sorry. I know you won't hold it against me. I gave up the game. I'm a guardian from here on, you know? This guy - looks a lot like you - showed up. Travelling with him, I thought, maybe... you were still alive somewhere, ya? But, then again, here you are on the Farplane. Guess your place is here. So... how you been? Oh! That guy I told you about? I gave him your sword. He likes it.
>>324005438 Matt and Woolie of Two Best Friends started a FFX HD playthrough recently, and their running joke is how racist Wakka is. This isn't an e-celeb thread, but it's sure as fuck here because OP watches them.
It's actually kind of funny; I watch them myself, and it's startling how often certain games start getting talked about as soon as they play it. For a board that hates e-celebs, you all sure seem to watch them a lot.
>>324019623 I'm not saying that everyone in here is here for TBFP, but the fact that FFX threads barely ever happen fucking ever, and now that TBFP started playing it here one is? C'mon now, anon. Don't be fucking dumb. Like I said, I DO watch them, and I can say with certainty that this shit happens fucking constantly. Just wait for Metal Wolf Chaos threads to start popping up.
>>324001885 Easily the best written character in the game, on of the all-time greats of the franchise. Wakka is a man of faith, and his faith is shaken by the quest he has embarked on. Defying the dogma which has molded his person.
>>324024949 There's a couple of them. Like Yuna, as much as a moeblob as she is, has serious difficulty overcoming Yevon and only does because of Teedus's influence. Prior to Zanarkand everything she does is because she's been indoctrinated by Yevon and its teachings. Because she's been taught ever since she was a little girl that her entire life is meant solely to die for the sake of everyone else. Even to the point where she's willing to marry an extremely obvious psychopath purely because it'll make the rest of Spira happy for a least a little while.
>>324001885 Back in the days where it was okay for a character to be xenophobic without it being linked in with a politically correct message/moral. Tbqh I'm sick of being treated like an infant who needs to have what is right and wrong spelt out to me. It's creatively suffocating.
>>324030352 Well the Yevon religion forbids machina. According to Yevon the reason why Sin appeared and destroyed everything was because mankind got too conceited and grew out of his bounds. And so Sin is divine punishment to humble man again. But if everyone is faithful to Yevon and atone for their sins then Sin will go away for good...eventually.
Which is why Yevonites HATE the Al Bhed. Because their religion tells them that all of mankind has to repent, which includes the Al Bhed who doesn't give a crusty fuck about their religion. So as far as the Yevonites are concerned the Al Bhed are the primary reason Sin comes back time and time again.
>>324033748 >the Al Bhed are the ancestors to the Cetra in FFVII Jesus Christ fucking stop this shit. It doesn't make any sense. It never made any sense. It's so absurd that the only example of worst writing would be FFX-2.5
>>324036109 Well, I guess that's true. The explanation didn't fit the true reason though, and the Church of Yevon knew it. They understood Sin was an armor for Yu Yevon and had a simple directive to eliminate Machina and civilization to protect Zanarkand from another Bevelle
>>324036720 I also missed mentioning something to hammer home the point: the Church knew this and PURPOSELY demonized the Al-Bhed as the reason for Sin because they were employed in the factories that build Bevelle's Machina at the height of the war with Zanarkand. Over time, this just came down to hating the Al-Bhed in general for supposedly being a major reason why Sin comes back, though for different reasons.
>>324040446 Well that took time and she was still pretty wispy. Mostly because she didn't know anything about the world other than Yevon. It was a sad scene after the crew killed Yunalesca and everyone was on the ship trying to think of an alternative method of killing Sin. Yuna sat near the deck elevator and lamented that she couldn't even begin to think of anything because Yevon is all she knows.
Because Al Bhed made his brother get killed, kidnap summoners, kidnapped his summoner just to try and blackmail him to lose a fucking sports game, and scavenge forbidden machinery that's said to be the reason Sin exists and also attracts Sin to it.
If the personification of the Apocalypse existed in real life, you'd believe in the religion that predicted it and was the only thing to combat it in the slightest.
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