Game "villains" who weren't evil.

>>323998934
Fuck you, that robot was pretty damn evil.

>>323999091
>pushing someone into the tv
>fully aware that they'd die

Although I'm not sure how they'd prosecute him.

Instead he is a raging homosexual, so he's evil in my book

Both Gilland and Gaius from Xillia.

>>323999348
Most of the MGS cast did nothing wrong.
They all wanted to be free

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>>323998715

>>323999843
I was intentionally shitposting, but whew lad, Skullface did a whole lot wrong. Dr. Clark did a whole lot wrong. Ocelot did everything wrong.

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>>323999967
Looks like you got out-shitposted, son.

>>323999017
now that's just not true

>>324000425
why not?

>N
>the villain

I know that Gen V had the worst plot the series, so I can understand your confusion.

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>>323998715

>>323999513
The first time I'm pretty sure he didn't know.
Continuing to do it after makes him a dick.

>>324000479
iirc, Vaati's sole drive was abusing Ezlo's powers from that capffor his own means just because he wouldn't let him use it; cursing Ezlo in the process.

he's no Ganondorf on the evil scale, but still quite a shithead

>>323999139
Amada was right.

>>324000653
>formed team plasma
>not the villain

>>324000796
Amada wasn't right at all!

It's not like humanity is dying of some mysterious illness, he just wanted to turn everybody into robots just because

And while I think it's wrong to go around exterminating those half robot children, it was wrong to make them in the first place

>>324000824
Pretty sure Ghetsis formed Team Plasma and N was a figurehead leader.

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>>323999967
The only main villain to do something wrong in MGS was Volgin.
SkullFace wanted to stop Zero from creating the Patriots A.I. and even Soft Hardman had a decent purpose with deterrence.

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>>324000824
Did you even play the games?

>>324000000

>>324000986
>it's not wrong to rape a woman and torture a child as long as you do it for a cause

ISIS please.

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Game would have been infinitely better if we could have sided with her.

>>324000653
>Gen V had the worst plot the series

Gen V isn't Gen III, anon.

>>324003574
B-but

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>active genocide on a huge part of the populous
>the humans do nothing but bask in their robot-maintained paradise
Fuck 'em.

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He was a real hero of MGS2

>>324004289
Go back to /vp/ and stay there, faggot.

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>>324004468
Nothing. He was right about everything he said.
Everyone was so happy in the genjutsu he did nothing wrong.

>>324000986
Coldman was going to shoot nukes though. I don't remember what was the first target, but the second was MB. All sorts of things would've gone bad if the first target was shot.

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>>324004693
Are you trying to imply that the plot of the Gen III isn't bad?

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>>323999513
>>324000731
>The first time he didn't know
>The second time was because he couldn't get that underaged pussy
That's all he did
All the others were done by Govener dude, since he was freaking out about his power, and Adachi just told him he could save people by pushing them in.

>>324004887
Top Kekman wanted to to use the peace walker system to make everyone afraid to use nukes, since PW would then fire back immediately. His plan hinged on the US gov not firing their nukes in response to the fake nuke signals, hoping that they wouldn't have the guts to push the extinction button.

>>324004906
"Hey guyz, wouldn't it be great if there were more places to swim?"

Team Aqua will forever be the most retarded thing ever.

>>324005893
Wasn't most of the region water anyway?

>>324006334
THAT'S HOW RETARDED TEAM AQUA IS.

>>324000048
I always saw Buzzo/Dr Yado as the villains and Rando as... well some random warlord.

>>324005893
Still slightly less retarded than team Magma.

I mean at least some things will survive in a water covered Earth and you could be like Waterworld.

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>>324006398
>>324006334
>>324005893
idiots
the idea was to use waves to destroy civilication on land so that mroe natural areas woudl go back to pokemon habitats rather than cities, team qua was hippies if anything but they did nt want to improve the water mass of the earth.

team magma wanted the opposite with increasing landmass so that huamnity could continue to flourish, it had nothign to do with drying up the sea, it was about rising the land aboe FROM the sea

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>>324006519

This, except I thought Yado was dead for a long time since you don't get to truly see him in Joyful

>>324000864
Came here to post this

DHAOS WAS RIGHT

>>324006785
Unless you played Joyful you wouldn't know Dr. Yado is the trumpet guy in Painful

Which I think is the only thing Painful got right. Yado is just a god looking over the destruction he's caused.

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>>323998715

>>324006778
>Team Aqua Internet Defense Force

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>>324006778
Fuck off, Archie.

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>>323998715

Is it time again?

>>324008251
He did nothing wrong.

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He was going to make america great again

>>323999967
>Ocelot did everything wrong.
Aside from torturing some people for fun, he did most things right at the end of the day.

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>>324008737

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>>323998715

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>>323998715
"You"

>>324004492
He fucking killed X, he deserved to die.

>>324009749
>race mixing
Worse than Hitler.

>>324010281
X was a vegetable and not even really alive anymore as his spirit was frolicking in the internet or whatever cyber elves do.

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>>324004808
that doesn't matter

he could right about everything but he did incredibly wrong things

>>324010287
by what logic

>>324010393
KILLED

X

So was Zero, all he needed and was a magic plot cyber elf and he'd be good to go

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>Freedom becoming more & more dead

Truly, he was just ahead of the game.

>>324010187

>Caused the death of millions because he wanted his sister back

Explain how he isn't evil.

>>324008817
Shut up Mithos, you were a fucking retard.

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Though you could argue he's not even a villain.

>>324010487
X was already dead and Ciel was out of Passys.
But it's symbolic, X that fought for humans keeping the reploids down, becoming a mere seal in his service turned to scrap for the new age of the machine. Then Zero fucked it up and not allowing humanity to get annihilated.

>>323999908
This is a legitimate good pick for this topic.
He may have become a hero of sorts, but damn one had to remember that he killed billions of humans. You could blame it on religion, but it still happened.

>>324010721
Go back to hell, Nimrod.

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>>324010475
By the logic that monsters were driven underground in the first place for a reason.
By the logic that she was being trapped there and treated like a family dog.
By the logic that being near goatfamily will fill anyone with a murderous rage. I mean, christ, spend 30 seconds at /vg/

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He dindu nuffin

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NOTHING WRONG.

>>324010953
Bane?

>>324010882
You know Chara wasn't going to stop when the monsters were all dead, right?

>>324005893

At least Team Aqua gives us the bara bros.

>>323998715
Well no, he was just your rival. Hell, he had more moral justification than some other rivals, since he was simply trying to make friends and obviously didn't know how far off the rails Ghetsis was.

>>324011145
pretty good list desu senpai

>>324010475
To be fair half the characters in the game did want to just outright kill you with no remorse. Asgore, Mettaton, Muffet and Flowey especially. Toriel wouldn't have hesitated to burn you to a crisp. Undyne hunted you in Frisk mode and Chara was just defending himself there. If the game was only those bosses, Chara wouldn't even be evil. It would just be a standard RPG. The only boss who actually did nothing wrong was Papyrus.

>>324011357
That doesn't change the fact that Chara's intent was to kill everything that moved on the planet.

>>324011414
The same could be said of Captain Olimar though.

With more pillaging loot from everything he murders for profit and enslaving locals to murder for him.
Half the shit you kill in Pikmin wouldn't even pursue you more than 5 feet.

>>324011414
If you found out furries were real, wouldn't you?

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>a patriot who desperately wants to strengthen the military power of his own small country after witnessing hell
>was brainwashed and tricked into commencing a coup
>fully redeems himself in a sequel and becomes a playable character in 3rd, being one of the strongest party members to boot

>>324011632
No.
I'd just kill the furrys, then stop.
Chara wasn't going to stop there.
>>324011552
Olimar is a space fairing locust, but that has nothing to do with this.

>>324011552

He wasn't enslaving them, the Pikmin were retarded as fuck and needed someone to guide them. Meanwhile Olimar needed help with getting the ship repaired.
Olimar was able to go back and the Pikmin learned to work together.
Don't know about the other games.

>>324010869
He did keep his part of the promise.
Not like in any moment he told Wander that he was a cool guy and not a ancient demon.

>>324011864
If I recall correctly, in 2, him, his brother and his boss are doing it for profit.

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>>324011145
>Arthas

>>324009968
Breen's actions were necessary for the Combine to not wipe out humanity on first contact, but he needed to die to allow humanity to gain ground again. If Freeman hadn't started an uprising, the planet would have been a dystopian shithole for decades, maybe centuries, before the entirety of the populace was converted or dead.
They wouldn't keep us as slaves forever, we're not as useful as the striders or whatever they used for gunships. They'd have just stripmined the planet and left us dead.

Also he's a dumbass for not realising how powerful the gravity gun was during the last sequence.

>>324011145
who's the fag in the bottom right

>>324011145
>Putting the maniacal AI whose sole purpose was to wipe out humanity then torture the remainders for eternity
Yeah sure, that's morally fine.

He doesn't even reproduce or support other lifeforms, he literally doesn't have a purpose besides being a butthurt asshole.

>>324012604
Guy from ace combat.

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He's a good boi, he didn't do nuthin'

>>324010721
He doesn't have a very strong case for being a good guy.

"Didn't lie to Wander" isn't really enough.

>>324014017
>lawfags
eww

>>324014302

>Honoured his deal and brought back Mono when he didn't have to.
>Brought Agro back to life (most likely, it was a long fall) because he could.
>Possibly even restored life to Wander as best he could.

He really didn't do anything wrong.

>>324014302
just because he's a horned entity with a black aura around him doesn't mean he needs much more to be a good guy.
I'm sure reviving the girl was a lot of trouble considering he didn't even manage to kill 3 idiots at the state he was.

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>>323998715

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He's a good dindu, just wanted to help his people.

>>324010869
>Dormin
>Nimrod
HOLY

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At least I give the humans you kill peace after death

>>323998715
Every Tales Of... villain

>>324017724
You saying you didn't notice the biblical undertones?

>Dormin is Nimrod backwards. Nimrod was a monarch mentioned in the book of Genesis. He ordered the construction of the Tower of Babel.
>The building Wander departs from to slay each colossus is a ruined tower
>Nimrod was, for the crime of false worship, torn into pieces which were scattered into all the corners of his kingdom, as a warning of what such heresy begets
>In the Divine Comedy, Nimrod is described as a "dark titan" in hell, and he can only speak in gibberish

>>324011145
Remove Huey and the list will be good. And why is Caim even there? He's not a fucking villain. Sure, he loves to murder, but so it happened that he was murdering eldritch abominations not innocent people.

>>324018421
Dhaos did nothing wrong

>>324010721
>fulfilled his promise
>is natural
>the reason he was sealed was solely because of how powerful he was
>never lied
You also have to remember that the colosi were anything but natural. The Colosi are man-made and are now "beautiful and innocent creatures" that people who never play the game claim they are

>>324019047
>are now
shit meant are not

He even warned Wander that what he wants to do will cost him his life.
Did nothing wrong.

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>>324018356
>Peace after death
Someone didn't play Chapter 22

Hades did everything wrong
That's what is so great about him
but at least he didn't constantly lie to himself like Viridi

>>324019174

Another piece of dialogue people often seem to forget about is at the end when Dormin possesses Wander's body.
He says something like he's "borrowing" it, certainly something that implies he was going to give it back.

He wasn't making a break for it in Wander's body, he was doing the best he could to fight off the humans who he knew were going to re-seal him and likely kill Wander and Mono if he didn't stop them.

>>324019697
Yes, he said "borrowed" in the cutscene. I'm surprised that after all these years someone actually finally noticed that Dormin wasn't necessary the evil. The people that showed up looked like ignorant fanatics to me instead, seeing how they callously executed Wander even though he showed no inclination to fight them.

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>>323998715

>That entire castle segment

Jesus, it felt like something out of the Manga. N's basically Yellow when you get down to brass tacks.

>>324000998
The dude didn't do a single thing that you could consider non-villainous. And I'm not even talking about murdering the king.

>>324020272
Dormin is most definitely evil. I don't care how honorable he is, but you simply don't get sealed away in sixteen pieces in an uninhabited land if you didn't do something pretty terrible to earn it.

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He was just a broken man.

>>324020493
Like transgress against an established religious dogma.

>>324020493
If the biblical references are to be believed, then his only crime was defying god.

>>324020272

Dormin is a being with power over death, he was likely sealed simply because the humans believed him unholy or his powers challenged their own religious creed.
While he looks the part of a death god and his essence has a negative affect on Wander's health (turning black, as he did), that's hardly Dormin's fault and there's nothing in the game to suggest he's malicious- he seems quite reasonable if not kind to Wander, depending on how you interpret certain things.

I regard people who come out of SotC thinking Dormin was an evil entity who tried to trick Wander (of whom I've met more than one) as simply having not been paying attention.

>>324017396
I never played the game, but I saw he reside into the tree is because the Owl was giving a home for its children then Ori ended up killing him and the children. Basically all this time it was defending itself in a sense.

>>324020696
>mfw I kinda look like nathan, except less alpha
Where can I get this jacket?

>>324010882
>she
And Chara went down to wipe out humanity.
That was the goal.

>>324011357
>Toriel wouldn't have hesitated to burn you to a crisp.
did you even play the game

>>324020723
He might not have tricked Wander, but that doesn't make him any less evil. That just makes him openly evil.

Him telling Wander that continuing down this path means that he will be corrupted and die does not excuse the fact that he corrupts and possesses Wander in the end.

The Devil is the Devil, even if he introduces himself to you as such.

>>324021126
It was a fair trade, a life for a life, stop being such a little bitch.

>>324021126
Except that he didn't corrupt and kill him, the humans at the shrine did. Death is the nature of his power. It's like complaining that you have burned your hand because you stuck it in the fire. Wander was willing to jump into the fire for the sake of that girl and so he got burned. Doesn't make Dormin The Devil.

>>324021220
And I'm saying that a non-evil entity wouldn't have agreed to Wander's plan to throw his life away like that.

Dormin saw a chance to break free and took it. He kept his promise to resurrect Mono, but it was of little joy to Wander, who was already dead by that time.

Dormin's reasons to help were completely selfish.

>>324004650

This. Best Real Hero of /v/.

>>324020730
Basically it went like this
owl had babies. Ori's tree dad was so concerned with finding Ori that he put on that huge light show that was actually super dangerous to living beings (hence Ori's adopted mom hurrying him inside when it started). The Lightshow killed all the baby owls that had hatched. To protect her last baby, mama owl killed all the tree things because for all she knew the had just murdered her babies for fun.

>>324020575

He wasn't even the villain of the story. Just because you fight him doesn't mean he's the villain. The villains of the story are Chara and Flowey, they are the main antagonists.

>>324021608
And it's suspect if it even was Dormin that caused Mono's revival, or the energies from the well that sucked the Dormin corrupted Wander in.

>>324004078
>Proudmoore
>a villain
You were the Villain in the game and you winning was the point of view of what would happen is the villain won.

>>323999967
Every MGS main villain, Skully included, had their own motives that they thought were the right things to do morally

Volgin and Huey are the only ones who were in it 100% for personal gain

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Being able to take his side and murder my squad was a pleasant surprise.

>>324021608
>completely selfish
>guy breaks through forbidden territory with girl and starts annoying you to revive her
>you even tell him that he won't get to actually live with her if this works
>he still accepts it
>selfish
He was completely neutral, saying he's evil proves you to be a fool and nothing else.

>>324021126
He didn't intend to corrupt him, as >>324021384 says
And, as said in >>324019697, >>324020272, I think it was pretty apparent he was going to give Wander his body back and only possessed him because it offered the best chance of survival for not just himself, but Wander and Mono as well.

I believe that restoring Wander to life as a child was Dormin's final act for Wander: the best he could given Wander's corrupted body.

>>324022381
>Going along with the boy's plan kills him
>If you were moral, you would ignore his pleas
>Instead, help him kill himself because you want to use his body to break free

He's evil. Just accept it, anon.

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>>323998715
Tell me, /v/, how good were Carmack's games once Romero left?

>>324022381
Exactly.

If Dormin just wanted to be revived and nothing else, what could he possibly have to gain by warning Wander this is probably a bad idea?

>>324022672
Are there any? I know Romero made Daikatana, and that sucked.

>>324022569
good thing neutral is a thing, and he did that pact just as much to kill Wander as to ressurect Mono, so it's 1 - 1.
Stop now, it's getting embarassing.

>>324022312
Good job destroying entire world by handing it on a silver platter to Horrors.

>>324022312

>siding with him dooms the entire world
>did nothing wrong

>>324011145
where the fuck is Adachi?
you can't make one of those lists without Adachi.

>>324022569

You're ignoring evidence.

Why did he say he was "borrowing" Wander's body?
Why did he revive Mono and possibly Agro and Wander as well?
Why did he warn Wander against what he was planning on doing?

If someone is informed of what fate awaits them and they still want to go through with it, it's not immoral if that also happens to benefit you.

>>324022798
And what astonishingly neutral act caused him to be split up into sixteen pieces and sealed away in an uninhabited land?

You can try to imply it was simple fanaticism, but judging by the priest's reaction to him being free, there's a very good chance that him getting out of the forbidden land would be a very bad thing indeed.

I would say Moon Presence and Orphan of Kos from Bloodborne both qualify. MP keeps Gherman prisoner but at the same time he's helping mankind with the Hunter's Dream, which seems to illustrate that he is generally sympathetic towards humans.

>>324022798

But he didn't want to kill Wander, he merely warned that his death was a pretty distinct probability.

Wander's body had to be used as a vessel to transport Dormin's essence back to the temple and that stuff ain't healthy.

And in the end, Wander didn't die. Possibly, depending on how you interpret it, because Dormin brought him back to life.

>>324022968
But going along with it knowing that you will kill the person (even if they claim to want it) does.

Also, there's zero evidence that it was Dormin who caused any of the revivals at the end. If anything, I would say that the well was responsible for it all.

>>324023040

There's no evidence to suggest that Dormin would have done evil deeds if he were freed.
The priest and his confederates were the violent, murderous ones.

It was apparent in the narrative they were religious zealots, it's not much of a leap to conclude their people likely sealed Dormin because they found his existent at odds with their religious beliefs.

He's like a pagan deity in the face of Christianity. Not evil, but an entity they found blasphemous.

>>324022793
>Daikatana
Yeah, it sucked and sucked hard.

Eidos succumbed to the dotcom craze and let him turn the office into a playground without putting any real measures on productivity or progress.

It didn't help that what Romero was trying to do at the time just wasn't there in terms of technology and AI.

>>324023040
You're working on assumptions now.
There's as much of a chance of Dormin being sealed for mere religious reason as much of him being actually a evil being that brings destruction.
With what we actually have to work on, he's neutral.
end.

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Plague Knight did pretty much nothing wrong

>>324023428
None of the Knights were really evil , right? Tinker, Propellor and Mole all seem like pretty decent people, if a bit crazy.

>>324018721
Caim's evil in both games and all spin of material. He does kill innocent people, just as long as they're not his people. He's a cunt like that.

>>324023141

So facilitating someone's wish to die in order to save a loved one is evil?

And denying someone's overpowering desire to bring back a loved one when you have the power to grant it is correct?

Wander chose freely.

>>324023401
If it was for mere religious reasons, why would they go to such lengths with it? (SIXTEEN fucking pieces, all sealed into a guardian golem)

You don't do something that drastic just due to religious dogma, there had to be some risk that Dormin posed to the world around him, whether it was an intentional one or not.

>>324023141
No, he's neutral. Dormin didn't trick Wander and didn't force him to keep going. He was completely honest about the fact that shit could end badly. The fact that he gets freed as a bonus doesn't make him evil

>>324023040

You can try to imply it was simple fanaticism, but judging by the priest's reaction to him being free, there's a very good chance that him getting out of the forbidden land would be a very bad thing indeed.

Well Dormin was probably gonna go wreck the shit of the guy who imprisoned him

>>324023592
>Brainwashed soldiers of the army
>Innocent people
>Brainwashed soldiers of the union
>Innocent people
>Kids that almost got Leonard's pedo ass kiled because he was doing the religious shit
>Innocent

Stop. No one is fucking innocent in Drakengard, except for the fucking farmers and peasants and the worst Caim did to those was kick an elf in frustration.

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You would have done the same.

>>324023710
>You don't do something that drastic just due to religious dogma

Can you even read what you're saying? People today, in this reality kill themselves and murder others by the hundreds if not thousands for religious reasons. It's not a far stretch to assume that binding someone by using magic macguffins could be done because of religious fundamentalism. That and the whole "girl with a cursed fate, let's leave her to die in the infertile lands because that's what we should do". If that doesn't raise any red flags about how correct and peaceful the religion of Wander's people is, I don't know what will.

>>324023718
He didn't trick Wander, but he also didn't refuse to help him on the grounds that it would kill him.

He practically agreed to assist with Wander's suicide, and the reason he agreed to do that is because it would allow him a chance to free himself. We don't know if he actually even kept his end of the bargain as there is no way to demonstrate what ended up resurrecting Mono.

>>324007958

Aqua Team Hunger Force

>>324023892
The sealing itself is not the thing that's hard to believe to be fanaticism, but the degree of it and the measures taken are far too heavyhanded for there to be no reason for it other than religious zeal.

>>324023860

>plan to merge with an insanely powerful AI

I did exactly the same

>>324023710
He was sealed in SIXTEEN fucking pieces for GAMEPLAY purposes.
If he was sealed in less it would be a pretty shitty game.
And you don't even know how hard it was to split him in 16 pieces, so there's no way to know if it was a major thing or not.
As I said, this is just "maybe they had a good reason and he's actually evil", from what we've seen him in the game, he's neutral.
There's no reason to believe otherwise, right now we're just arguing fan work that could just as much be that he was sealed for being a good guy as a he was sealed for being a evil guy.

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Satan is just doing his thing bringing about the apocalypse in a timely manner. Then some asshole shows up and murders everything in sight.

Some quirks about the game:
-This game had bullet time before Max Payne made it famous
-If you click and hold in the game menu, it will reveal the signatures of one of the developers (this was before anybody realized how bad of an idea this was)

>>324001136
Especially with the feels at the end of bayo2 n the loop

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>>324024048
FUCKING MOBIUS ONE.
EURSIA WAS SUPPOSE TO WIN.
YELLOW 4 WAS SUPPOSE TO BE ALIVE.

>>324024123

Damn straight anon-kun

>>324007330
:'(
His last cutscene was my favorite in the entire game.

>>324023932
>he's evil because he assisted Wander's "suicide" and he only wanted to be free!
He agreed to it because he couldn't really do much else.
What would he do? "I'm not going to help you no matter what because I might get freed and that would be bad?"
God fucking damnit.
If you were in his situation and this guy came asking to ressurect someone and the only way you could do it was if you were unsealed, and the only way you can be liberated is if you take over his body, he agrees with that idea anyway, because he's willing to do anything for her, you would be evil for going through with that?
What kind of fucked up moral compass is that?

>>324024739
I'm saying that if he really wasn't evil or at the very least morally ambiguous, then killing someone for his freedom, even if it was an unintended side effect, would not sit well with him.

>>324023807
It's not his fault some people can't take a joke.
Plus he was completely justified.

>>324022432
>grasping at straws

>>324024953
And you're failing to understand that it was a request.
He didn't kill anyone for his freedom, it wasn't the objective of their pact.
It was the only way to bring Mono back to life, and anyone could see that Wander was willing to go through anything for her.
It wasn't a "I'm going to kill you".
He never tried to trick Wander in any way or form, he was completely honest about it.
Do you know why sealed ancient evil and demons never keep their part of the promise and are always lying when unsealed in histories and such?
Because they're evil.

>>324025406
How do you know Dormin kept his promise? There's no indication of what caused Mono to live again.

>>324022968
Your logic fucking sucks. Apply that to anything else its still a bad act

>>324025501
This bullshit again?
You know Wander did go directly to him for a reason right?
So it's obvious that Dormin did have ressurecting powers.
Now even through there's enough proof that Dormin was the one responsible for doing it, We will keep trying to pin it on a well for no good reason just to say he's evil.
If Dormin was just trying to get himself free, he could certainly have tried to sweet talk Wander about actually losing his body, but he never did.
And once again, everything points toward Dormin being neutral.

>>324023085
Moon presence is the only "evil" great one as its causing harm to the other great ones by endlessly sending hunters to try and slain them.

>>324025406
Again, it being a request does not absolve the party that agrees to honor that request.

If someone asks you to help to kill themselves and you agree instead of trying to talk them to back out of it, that's morally dubious.

And no, "You know this will kill you, right?" does not count as a try to talk someone down.

>>324011145
Get illias and Chara out of there.

>>324011145
Do people actually defend the guy from deadly premonition?

>>324025948
That doesn't make the one who agrees to carry out that request evil. It is being done for the greater good - in this case resurrection of the girl. You said it yourself. It's morally dubious aka morally gray area. And don't you think trying to talk someone down who stole a sacred relic and came into cursed lands and will be punished with death for his transgressions, if he is caught, a silly idea?

>>324025808
>For no good reason
>Well purified Wander of Dormin's influence, and regressed him back to a baby, indicating it can turn back time for individuals in its presence

>>324025948
You keep spewing that as if Dormin just killed Wander for no good reason as if he was asked to murder him and he did, but it wasn't that.
He did that for a reason, it was the only way to SAVE someone. someone dear to Wander.
You better not go on about Dormin not actually ressurecting mono again.

>>324026180
Wander went through the well, Mono didn't.

>>324026180
>The more colossi Wander killed, the closer Mono came to returning back to life
>It wasn't Dormin's doing!

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>>324023085
None of the great ones can be applied normal morals. That being said MP is the only great one we know of who is hostile to other great ones which makes it the most evil I'd say given the great ones are supposed to somewhat care for humans. Everything else horrible that happens is humans fault for messing with things they can't understand and killing beautiful mother kos.

Also poor gherman just wants someone to save him.

The whole point of SotC is that Wander is a lovestruck retard that cannot let go of Mono and makes a pact with a dubious deity in an attempt to rescue her, losing everything in the process.

The scene at the very end where you can keep holding on but can not actually get to Mono delivers this point home. You can keep holding on as long as you want to, but eventually you have to let go, just as Wander has to let go of Mono.

With that in mind, it doesn't make sense for Dormin to be anything but evil, because then Wander's pact with him isn't as meaningful in context of the themes in the game.

>>324026930
That's your interpretation, stated as fact.

>>324026930
If the point to get across was that Dormin is just a stuck up asshole, they wouldn't shown Mono actually getting up.
nor the heart warming scene with Mono and the baby.

>>324027235
The point the game tries to relay is that love makes us do retarded things, such as make a pact with an ancient evil, even if we know that it's an incredibly bad idea, and that in the end, it's best to come to terms with loss and let go.

That's why Dormin being a neutral being that is simply helping Wander just because does not work, because that wouldn't highlight the desperation of Wander as well as him being evil.

>>324026930
>losing everything
>Mono actually got ressurected as he wanted
>Aggro is still alive
Not only it's your interpretation, but it's objectively wrong.

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This guy

>>324027763
He doesn't even get to see that happen, though. For all intents and purposes, as far as Wander is concerned, he lost everything and gained nothing.

>>324027652
You're amazing.
That was the point of the game for you? really?
Actually getting your love back to life, just as you wished for while losing your body as you know it would happen is a "retarded things, and a incredible bad idea"?

>>324027989
What are you even trying to say? That it was completely rational for Wander to want to die/lose his body for a mere chance that Mono might live again, even though he could not share in that joy?

All of it was grief-fueled desperation, an insane bid for something that is out of mortal hands.

>>324028501
>Out of mortal hands
>Clear evidence of magic existing
>He could hear Mono stir the closer he came to killing all of the colossi and calling his name

Keep digging that hole. Maybe you should take your own advice and let go, because you've lost this argument.

>>324028624
>The power of an evil god
>Mortal hands

>>324028501
Considering the things he did for Mono, he was almost certainly going to die anyway and he managed to save her as he wanted.
This is as good as SotC could have ended.
If in YOUR OPINION, that was stupid and retarded, because he didn't get to live with her (that is wrong as well because baby Wander from well), that still doesn't mean anything about Dormin being evil.

>>324028765
>he's shadowy and his domain is death
>that must mean he's evil

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>>323998715

>>324029118
hey i know that guy

didn't he do a mctwist over a helicopter?

fucking badass

>>324028857
Yes, that is as good as the game could have ended because the point was that Wander couldn't let go and continue on with his life after Mono died. Then at the end he finally realizes that he can't keep clinging to Mono and, both figuratively and literally, lets go.

The fact that his endeavors actually paid off (which is a pretty generous way of putting it) is irrelevant to the message of the story, which is that love drives us to do crazy things because we do not want to accept loss. Even though Mono and Wander both lived on, they cannot return to what they had before.

>>324023807
Was he involved in the prank to his sisters or was he unaware?

>>324029169
Elaborate. I think I remember this character but I don't recall what she did.

>>324029898
They never wanted to return to what it was before.
Wander knew it would never go back to what it was before, he just wanted to save the love of his life, and he did.
You're taking that message of the story out of your ass and it doesn't even make sense, considering he actually did get to live with her once again, which is more than he ever asked for.

>>324030381
So you're saying that without thinking how she would feel about it, Wander wanted to resurrect Mono at the price of his own life, possibly condemning her into a life of misery without him?

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>>324030158
She tried to purge the world of androids so that she could resurrect humanity

>>324022875
>tazes the cutest girl in the world

Literally everything wrong.

>>324030731
Yes, Wander did.
And not only he went through with that, but he also got to live together with her as a baby.
If the idea of this game was to give the player a message that making a pact with a deity that will get you killed was just plain wrong and stupid, Mono wouldn't have lived, Aggro would have died, and Wander wouldn't have turned back into a baby.
Good thing it didn't, because now that would be stupid.
And good thing there's no ressurecting deity parts scattered through a forbidden land in form of giant colossus so people don't try to ressurect their lovers in exchange of their own in real life.
Also, did I say this was a game? so it doesn't necessarily have a "message" in it.

>>324030882
Sounds like a dick move.

>>324031301
If you're a dirty carbon sympathizer maybe

>>324031264
And you don't think that was selfish and a sign of lack of good judgment on Wander's part? Like, you know, the actions of a desperate man ready to do anything to hold on to what he has lost, in hopes of getting it back.

The fact that it worked doesn't mean that it wasn't foolish and pretty much gambling.

>>324032016
It was a reckless decision? obviously it was, if there wasn't any danger with it, then it would have 0 impact, it wouldn't be a compelling story at all.
It's the only reason we're even having this argument.
As I said before, If YOU thought it was a bad call on Wander's part, and that you wouldn't do it, good for you, you're rational.
To think this all started with Dormin's morality in question.

>>324032443
Then why do you disagree on the message of the story if you agree that Wander's actions were reckless?

>>324011145
Illias is an abomination so, by default, a villain that should be purged. Her very existence is "doing wrong".

>>324031264
>Mono wouldn't have lived, Aggro would have died, and Wander wouldn't have turned back into a baby.

That's the point. Accepting loss means that you come to terms with never seeing whoever you lost again.

>>324032587

Not him, but I think 'reckless' is a bad word for it.
It wasn't a gamble because he didn't really have anything to lose.

If he was going to be without Mono either way, there's nothing left but to try and run the risk of failure.

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Whenever I think of N I think of this man

>>324032923
I think everyone interested in the discussion should read this article on the matter. It highlights the points I am trying to make in a much more poignant way.

http://press.etc.cmu.edu/content/shadow-colossus-nick-fortugno

To quote it as a response to your points;

>It goes without saying that all of these losses could have been avoided if Wander simply gave up on his quest. In fact, there is nothing in particular that makes the progression through the story necessary. Wander is not saving the world, and no further harm would befall anyone if he walked away. All of the suffering – the obvious pain and struggle attached to the hunt and assault, the destruction of relatively harmless or isolated creatures of great beauty and scale, the bodily deterioration of Wander, the loss of Agro – all of this could be avoided if the quest was given up. On top of this, Wander’s quest is to do something that the game has repeatedly reminded us, through Emon, Dormin, and even Wander’s own dream, is unnatural and outside of normal possibility. Wander could choose to accept Mono’s loss and move on. Wander could let go. But he does not. Instead, he pushes himself through immense suffering and enormous destruction, all in the name of clinging to the hope of defying death, all to hold on to Mono. In contrast to the game’s demand that the player learn when he must let go, the avatar the player inhabits fails to learn this lesson and desperately holds on despite everything that indicates the quest should be let go.

>>324032764
And? he didn't do that, accept Mono's loss, and still succeded in what he wanted and some more.
>>324032587
Because this was a love story just like many others out there, the protagonist often do reckless decisions in favor of his love.
If the message was to show that it was pointless and idiotic to do so, Dormin would have been, yes, a evil god and Mono wouldn't have been ressurected.

>>324011145
>Luca

But he was pure evil and fucking admitted it. He was proud of it

>>324033821
The end result is of little concern to the actions taken in the here and now, though. Wander had no way of knowing what would happen if he chose to do Dormin's bidding.

At that moment, it was stupid and reckless. The fact that it paid off was just a fluke.

>>324011145
>chara
>did nothing wrong
Literally did EVERYTHING wrong

>>324034134
it was, I never once said Wander was being rational fighting those 16 colossus.
and it paid off.
Why? because it's just a love story.
It's not trying to prove a point.
That's why the "fluke" happened.
>>324033573
This is a very pointless paragraph, because as soon as the game starts Wander is already in a situation that it is pointless to just "let go", as he has already stolen a sacred relic and trepassed on forbidden land, he would have been killed anyway.
letting go of the quest at the game's place was the worst decision he could have made.

>>324012248
>but he needed to die to allow humanity to gain ground again

you really think Earth ate the entire alien army?
kill him, push them back, they'll come again, and won't let buildings standing after this

>>324011145
explain dog-eyes. Putting aside his history with Wei's sister, didnt he play a part in Winston murder?

>>324034616
Had he simply left after placing Mono's body on the altar, I doubt Emon and his goons would have killed him. The only reason they attacked him in the game at all is because he was already too far gone at that point.

>>324010707
Mithos was a beta that couldn't do anything without his sister paddling him on the back. instead of trying to understand people or take responsibility for his fuck ups, he decided it would be better to create one master race that was doom to fail.

>>324035063
You "doubt".
It just a assumption.
They were clearly armed to kill, maybe they had assumed Wander would manage to go through killing the Colossus? Yes, maybe.
But just as much it could have been that they came armed to kill him for what he had already done.

>>324035004
Explain.

>>324023510
Most were jerks in some regard, but none were evil.

>>324033073
What did he do?

>>324035503
True. It's hard to come to objective conclusions about most things in the game.

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if anything, the mc was the one in the wrong. chose pussy instead of his bro.

>>324011145
But Caim really didn't do anything wrong. Dude was a violent sociopath, sure, but he was basically just doing what he was told.

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he fights for the freedom of his people. nothing wrong with that.

>>324035787
Can you even consider him a villain anymore? If anything I see him as an antihero.

>so tell me, are you still fighting these days young man?

>>324036501
See>>324025972
Also that was already posted.

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>Trying to save your village and the world from crumbling away into nothing
>Stupid kids think you're trying to take over the world because of what some senile old man said about the elemental stars

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>>323998715
This guy.

>>324006778
Only in ORAS though. ORAS did a good job of improving Aqua's and Magma's motivations, in the original games they were flat out retarded and nonsensical.

ORAS Aqua is a better example of Pokemon villains who did nothing wrong since N isn't even a villain. Fucking hippie pirates.

>>323998715
Why does people consider him the villain when clearly Ghetsis was the bad guy?

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>>324009669

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>>323998715

He only wanted to survive. You'd have done the same but only if you didn't have a freind like Grovyle.

>>324035525
elves are sub creatures that cant be trusted. sooner or later, they would have stab him in the back.

>>324036501
why the fuck would you even consider that the batter did something wrong?

>>324036779
If it wasn't for their brutish methods, you'd be absolutely right.

hell, they could have explained their findings, convinced other adepts to join them, like they did with Alex, and they probably would have defeated Isaac with the help of other people assisting them

The fact that they went full anti-hero about it was fucking dumb

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>>324036568
shit. forgot the picture

>>324036058
I was surprised at how I managed to go through the whole thing while hating the mc from start to finish, his whiny attitude is really irritating and the only time he showed a backbone it was to steal someone's daughter and fucked over his friends hopes and dreams because of muh love.

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>>324036974

>>324035621
Nothing wrong.

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>>323998715

>>324037107
Desperate people do desperate things, anon. Besides, no one really died except the Tolbi soldiers, and it could be argued that they deserved it.

>>324009669
>>324036974
>>324037171
we need more badass politicians.

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>>323998715
>>324001003
>>324004906
>>324008130
>the last Pokémon games came out in 2014
>it's the current year and a new game has not even been announced

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>>324036501
>Cao Cao

Cow-Cow was a villian and a monster who ruined China for countless years. Now Dong Zhuo, that's someone who did literally nothing wrong and was a victim of Shu propaganda.

>>324037335
GF's too busy shitting out mobile games

>>324037335

But anon, Super Mystery Dungeon came out in 2015.
And it's the best Pokemon for 3DS.

>>324000663
>actively making pointless enemies that obscure your original goal

autism comfirmed

>>324037317
now if only we had a game that perfectly showed what Saturos and Menardi were doing throughout Golden Sun

I mean yeah, we saw them at some major events, but I feel we missed a ton of things they did.

It would be nice to see what they, Felix, and Alex thought of during these events

>>324036501
>Giygas LITERALLY wanted to doom the world to ten thousand years of darkness, he was LITERALLY driving everyone crazy
>Hires an incompetent fat baby as his right-hand man
>Gets beaten by the Power of Friendship™
Giygas did EVERYTHING wrong.

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>>323998715

>>324037504
>>324037524
None of those games are made by GameFreak.

>>324037524
>Existing franchise repackaged with Pokemon name so autistic Pokemon fans will buy it
>Good

>>324037058
Right. Let's move the xenophobia away.
>>324037301
Explain please.

>>324037914
I thought Game Freak was helping out with Go?

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Althena was fucking stupid for essentially abandoning the world.

>>324037910
dis nigga caused the end if existence

there's NOTHING he did right

>>324006949
>Unless you played Joyful
We were constantly disscusing the possibility of polka trumpet dude being Yado

>>324037676
Yeah, I agree. I mean, what if the real cause of all the bad shit that happened was actually Kraden being a tired old man?
>No, you crazy old man, don't lean against those trees that look suspiciously like people-- goddammit, you knocked them over!
>Kraden, no, don't lean against that rock-- GOD FUCKING DAMNIT YOU GERIATRIC FOOL YOU CAUSED A ROCKSLIDE, I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY

>>324011145
Is that fucking Wesker?

>>324038108
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KfGFXfn4eU&list=PL7C498688F14F6A0D&index=84
>dis nigga caused the end if existence
By killing himself? Besides world deserves such a fate, because for some reasons. Spoiler there are no other way to stop Evil God from human slavery.

>Thread suppose to be about villains who had an equal justify motivation
>/v/ post nothing but edgelords
Everytime

>>324038601
>by killing himself?
Yes... that's exactly what he did. If he didn't get his way, he could die and make it so no one gets a happy end

>>324038020
Oh, I forgot about it. It's probably mostly concepting since Niantic is most likely doing all the heavy programming.

>>324038817
>Niantic is most likely doing all the heavy programming.

Good. GF can barely code themselves out of a virtual cardboard bag.

>>324038774
>and
And everone ended be a pappet of Evil god, with no freddom. Ciaus fighted for freedom the only true answer.

>>324037215

Oh come one now, the only excuse you can make for Relius's actions is that he didn't choose to go crazy.

>>324038402
I figured the chart is supposed to be a joke

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>>324038636
Fine, here are non-edgelord villains who weren't really evil. A bunch of jovial 'pirates' who genuinely wanted to help Pokemon, they were just really misguided.

>>324011357
>Toriel wouldn't have hesitated to burn you to a crisp.
She starts intentionally missing if you get to low health, and lets you kill her. The only way to die against Toriel is to TRY to, since you have to chase down her bullets, which RUN AWAY FROM YOU.

>>324039053
Freedom always comes at a cost

Humans are not always good or evil. A "god" is there to keep us in check. If we decide our own fate, we can choose Oblivion or Paradise.

sometimes we need guidance. Sometimes we need someone to keep us in check. Or maybe sometimes the entire world should not be shaped by one man or woman. Caius tried this. forsaking balance in all things for his own dream to come into fruition, or end fate as we know it.

Fuck it, he was selfish. He fought for his own freedom, which got everyone else involved as well.