Is this still true? What would the current tier list look like if this isn't it.
As of now, ZSS is almost always put 2nd best, Luigi has dropped to the A- to B+ range, Meta Knight and Ryu and Ike have been moving up, and anything B and below is kind of a free-for-all right now.
>Bayonetta will utterly fuck up Sheik players
FLY ME TO THE MOOOOOON
>Samus having a row to herself
I know for a fact that she is alot better then those on row C
>Mewtwo that low
Mewtwo just got some buff, he can't be still bad, is he?
>Mewtwo just got some buff, he can't be still bad, is he?
Mewtwo simply can't take a hit, with out losing his shit.
It only takes few hits to sent Mewtwo packing with ease.
>Yoshi and Diddy that high
Didn't Yoshi and Diddy get nerf?
>Why is Ganondorf so low?
Ganon is easy to gimp
Throw Ganon outside of the stage, and that bastard is not coming back.
Ganon's recovery is really shit, If they were to make Ganon float like Peach then he would be higher on the list.
Thats not what i mean. I'm saying a lot of people who think of themselves as good ganondorfs are just people who "style" and "disrespect" on bad online players. Like ok, you can hit those supercharged smash attacks on people probably because the lag between your opponent makes them walk into it or something. Ganondorf is not that good of a fighter, and I'm right alongside those players with Zelda
That's the main reason I hate ZSS and Sheik players, they don't like them because they like the games they're from, they like them just because they're good.
I hate how zero calls anyone who plays sheik a tier whore but plays fucking ZSS.
>Link still lower than Tink
He's never going to escape the "Slow Link" meme, is he? He's always going to be overshadowed by that shitty mass-market mascot bobblehead.
>Little Mac that high
>Link that low
Little mac is F-tier
all you have to do is platform camp and shield grab and its a clean infinite stock.
>Bowser, Charizard, Mega Man, Pac-Man, and DK that low
This cannot be right
Where's the curremt one with Cloud?
Fuck that faggot dinosaur moving like Shiek and hitting like Ike
>I have only fought bad charizards
Nair, Bair, Fair, Utilt, and Dtilt are all incredible moves and meme blitz is to be saved until the opponent forgets you have it
>jiggs that LOW
Imagine how soft it is though
>Still, if he can keep you on your heels he's brutal.
I only face one Mewtwo that was fucking scary, that was able to take down my Fox.
Felt like I was fighting fucking Freeza.
I never knew Mewtwo bair had so much power.
Even with buffs, the nature of the game fucks up Jiggle's strengths namely gimping. Unless the character has a bad recovery or is being played by a shit player, they will make it back on stage 80% of the time regardless of what you do
GOD I love fighting characters with reflectors as Mewtwo and playing tennis with them
>Fighting a Fox
>Cast Shadow Ball
>Fox reflects it
>Reflect it back
>Breaks his reflector and KOs him at 0%
>Felt like I was fighting fucking Freeza.
>Lucario is voice by Goku
>Captain Falcon is voice by Vegeta
It's like we had our DBZ crossover all along, and didn't know it.
I've always wanted to know the context for that
Calm down dumdum
He still gimps alot if characters with down b at early percent even
Just because you can't kill from a grab anymore doesn't mean the character is nerfed to death
Besides just back throw if you are too retarded to get a kill from anything that isn't a grab
>get annihilated by any character with a sword
>Cloud comes along and it's as if he was made to make my life a living hell
Playing G&W is always worth it
I'm okay with Pokemon. It's really just that Melee Kirby was such a slow and unreliable piece of shit I had to switch to her since she was good Kirby, and stuck with her since.
Since Bowser buff he's definitively around B-
That uptrow combo is just perfect for racking up damages.
I just wish Nintendo would finally buff Zelda a bit...
>Rosalina that high
>or even in the tier least at all
Literally a meme character. She's trash. Not even good players are good with Rosalina. I really hope her placement there was intended to be ironic.
>literal meat shield to break throw combos, absorb proyectiles and general damage
>bullshit, disjointed aerials that can kill randomly at 60%
>unlosable matchups to Ness and Pac-Man because of Down-B
>fast roll, generally strong by herself anyway
>Luma's neutral air in general
yeah nah you're a cunt
>implying Luma is at all hard to avoid
>implying Rosalina's wonky as hell controls don't prevent people from adequately fighting with her
If you lose to Rosalina you literally need to git gud.
>some of the best combos in the game
>super strong recovery
>insane z-air spacing
>tons of edgeguarding options
>excellent aerial side B spacing
>Dr. Mario has a shitty recovery
Don't act like Mario's recovery is any better, he still suffers from being gimped without that jump thanks to Sakurai nerfing his cape. Mix up your recovery options with Doc and use pills to defend yourself.
He can get the same amount of damage with less hits and can kills a lot earlier than Mario. Plus Doc can get a lot of early kills thanks to gimping with Tornado, Super Sheet, and pills.
I'll give you Doc being slower than Mario and Mario being better than Doc but don't count him out just because he's just a "shittier Mario", people can do well with him.
Just because you're bad with Rosa doesn't mean everyone else is. And its not that Lumas hard to avoid, but the fact that you have to stop whatever you're trying to do just so that Luma doesn't hit you is pretty shitty.
Tier list I made based on my tourney experience.
If you're B tier or above, you're a viable character.
If you're C tier, you can made to work in tournament but require a secondary for MU coverage.
If you're D tier or below, kek.
The combo moves still have scaling knockback, but they have less finishing knockback as a combo goes long. All it would take is a safe confirm into a single kill move at high percents. That's all we can no for now, but it would not come as a surprise at all if she has easy upward links into earlier finishers if started from mid air.
Melee Samus is scary fair. She plays the neutral game with the most spaced tilts of any character in the game while still having reads that lead to early kills.
Smash 4 she still has her tilts, but fucking everything is unsafe on HIT and she has trash pressure options thanks to hakurai's landing lag and slowshit jumps.
Shulk is shit and there's no way around it, but Lucas should definitely be up in the "viable" tiers if he's got shit like Mewtwo and Cloud there as well
Actually, what in the fucking fuck is Cloud doing in A? His recovery is worse than Little Mac's.
>has wall jump
>has decent aerial mobility
>has a relatively short midair jump
>Climhazzard climbs a pitiful vertical distance and zero horizontal distance, doesn't snap to the ledge
>you just can't rely on Limit Break every time
>has wall jump
>has high aerial mobility
>midair jump is very short
>has both Jolt Haymaker for OK horizontal recovery and Rising Uppercut for pitiful vertical recovery. Uppercut doesn't snap to ledge but is a multihit move which makes it more difficult to edgeguard
Now tell me which of these is worse in your opinion.
Neither of them is going to make it if they were knocked far down unless the stage gives them the opportunity to wall jump or Cloud just happens to have LB charged up. If Mac got knocked out of the stage in a <45 degree angle he can still make it with his horizontal options, or take the alternative route by using his aerial mobility to hug the wall of the appropriate stage and wall jump + upB back to the ledge. They're both really crap at recovering though, and the moment Cloud in particular uses Climhazzard next to the ledge he's cannon fodder for any character to hit him back before he can grab the ledge. For this reason alone he will never be high tier.
>All you gotta do to beat X is Y and they are fucked.
Characters have their flaws and merits across the board. But if you are a good player, have solid fundamentals especially in the read and mixup game you can play just about anyone.
Comparing characters, while fun, doesn't determine the winner, that comes down to the player.
Anyone else taking a break until the bayo patch? I just can't deal with the game anymore, so little has been done to meaningfully fix it. I wish more characters were given the attention Ike got instead of getting grab game buffs and then forgotten
Cloud's Air speed is much better than Mac's. And he has aeirals he can actually use. You're an idiot if you think recovery is the only problem preventing Mac from being good. It's the complete and utter lack of an air game. Cloud's air game outside of recovery is disgustingly good.
>I just dont take the game seriously. Its funner that way.
i play it at a friends every saturday for like 3 hours. the game is god tier when limited to a time frame like that
getting fully invested in it would likely make me rip my hair out
yeah; some characters like Lucas/Robin/Mewtwo/Ike/Kirby got some meaningful, focused buffs that complement their design though Kirby may just be innately flawed at this point
they give Ganon attention every fucking patch yet he's budged little more than an inch. a grab range longer than my fingernail and a bit of juice in air speed would fucking help, along with his Fair actually cancelling in a full hop
Never going to happen, he's designed to be shit at getting in but really dangerous once he gets in. He'll never be made dangerous when he gets in because custom moves already do and they don't want to break him in customs.
I don't understand that logic. Custom moves for the most part are just extras thrown in a neat bonus. They do help some characters in certain areas but the only ones actually feel as if they were designed around them are obviously Palutena and the Mii Fighters.
You should be livid because nintentodlers haven't played even 1/4 of the games or series represented in smash
Anon, she never changes gender.
>puff and shulk not in complete trash tier
>roy being 3 tiers higher than marth
old tier lists were pretty bad
Seriously? I destroy every Rosalina I ever fight. You're hot dog water, bro.
Fuck everyone calling Mewtwo shit.
Mewtwo is a force to be reckon with.
If you don't act fast when facing Mewtwo, get ready to suck Mewtwo's big purple dick.