Is this still true? What would the current tier list look like

>Luigi that high

Was Luigi always that high? I don't look into tier lists too often, but that looks wrong.

>bowser so low

I thought a bunch of people were saying he was really good in smash 4 back when the game came out, did he get nerfed?

>>323838291
Until fairly recently Luigi had crazy throw combos.
>>323838590
Bowser was ok, then he became bad, and now his up throw combos for days so he's pretty good again.

>>323836574
As of now, ZSS is almost always put 2nd best, Luigi has dropped to the A- to B+ range, Meta Knight and Ryu and Ike have been moving up, and anything B and below is kind of a free-for-all right now.

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>Bayonetta will utterly fuck up Sheik players

FLY ME TO THE MOOOOOON

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>>323836574
>Samus having a row to herself
I know for a fact that she is alot better then those on row C

>Mewtwo that low
Mewtwo just got some buff, he can't be still bad, is he?

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>>323836574

>Dedede will never get buffed

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>>323839707
>Mewtwo just got some buff, he can't be still bad, is he?
Mewtwo simply can't take a hit, with out losing his shit.
It only takes few hits to sent Mewtwo packing with ease.
>>323836574
>Yoshi and Diddy that high
Didn't Yoshi and Diddy get nerf?

Why is Ganondorf so low? Are people this retarded?

>>323840335

When ganondorf is only effective at beating up kids in for glory, no, i think the placement is valid

>>323840335
>Why is Ganondorf so low?
Ganon is easy to gimp
Throw Ganon outside of the stage, and that bastard is not coming back.

Ganon's recovery is really shit, If they were to make Ganon float like Peach then he would be higher on the list.

>>323840560
This. He's too slow and predictable. Especially if they just spam his side b.

>>323840632
This is why Ganon is so fun in PM, his recovery isn't trash.

Too bad Sm4sh kept him as a shitty half clone.

>Tier lists
>In a party game

kek

smash players are the manlets of e-sports

>>323839283
i dont know, the idea of a bunch of nintoddlers who never played bayonetta like zero kinda pisses me off

>>323840867

Thats not what i mean. I'm saying a lot of people who think of themselves as good ganondorfs are just people who "style" and "disrespect" on bad online players. Like ok, you can hit those supercharged smash attacks on people probably because the lag between your opponent makes them walk into it or something. Ganondorf is not that good of a fighter, and I'm right alongside those players with Zelda

>>323841514
That's the main reason I hate ZSS and Sheik players, they don't like them because they like the games they're from, they like them just because they're good.

I hate how zero calls anyone who plays sheik a tier whore but plays fucking ZSS.

>>323836574
>All my mains are in C tier

Oh well, I still win a lot.

I hate yoshi

>>323841738
>I hate how zero calls anyone who plays sheik a tier whore but plays fucking ZSS.

???

>>323836574
>bowser in c
>dominates most above him
kek

>>323842746
Yeah Bowsers needs a huge fucking nerf.

>>323836574
Greninja looks a little high but other than that looks pretty solid.

>>323836574
>main link, dk and mewtwo

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>>323836574
>Link still lower than Tink

He's never going to escape the "Slow Link" meme, is he? He's always going to be overshadowed by that shitty mass-market mascot bobblehead.

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>>323836574
>Little Mac that high
>Link that low

>>323836574
I will say that Mewtwo is a fucking monster if he doesn't get hit. Infinitely better than he was in Melee.

Shame about that dying at 70% shit.

>>323839283
That's assuming she has any actually KO power outside of reads

>>323844273
Mewtwo's biggest issue is something shared with Rosalina. Lightweight, but taller than average.

>>323841514
This. I don't wanna that fatty Zero ruining Bayonetta for.

>>323844294
Her air combo finishers seem pretty strong.

And if all else fails there's witch time.

>>323836574
>Ganondorf will never not be shit
And thus my struggle as a Ganon and Hugo main continues forever.

>>323844507
All her moves looked like they had fixed knockback

>>323844294
her mobility makes offstage kills a disticnt possibility. plus she can constantly rack up damage to allow her weaker moves to kill.

>top four characters are sheik, rosaluma, zss and pikachu
>all of them are blond or blonde

what does this mean

>>323844393
if he had faster movement and slightly better priority

I hope Bayonetta's dance taunt can be instantly switched to an attack, because I get hyped just thinking about all the shenanigans I could do with that.

ITT: Shitters that have never entered a tourney.

>>323844393
And unlike Rosie he doesn't have a puppet to facetank for him.

Still, if he can keep you on your heels he's brutal.

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Little mac is F-tier
all you have to do is platform camp and shield grab and its a clean infinite stock.

>>323836574
How old is this? Also, why so many tiers, don't really need + and - for every letter. Seems like a reddit list and they're bad at rankings.

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>>323845786
>Bayonetta is sexy

>fun to play
>with a bit of effort learning the character, it's easy to win
>brings the salt
>both waifu and husbando material
Give me a reason not to switch to Sheik

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>Bowser, Charizard, Mega Man, Pac-Man, and DK that low
This cannot be right
Where's the curremt one with Cloud?

>>323836574
>Samus is le worst character in the game maymay
Why is everyone so horrible

>>323846039
Charizard is complete ass unless you're playing drunk in a FFA and spamming meme blitz

I never paid attention to this shit, nice to see my main is apparently the drizzling shits

>>323845786
>corrin not higher and more sexy

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>>323841969
This
Fuck that faggot dinosaur moving like Shiek and hitting like Ike

thread theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIBsGM7EIZw

>>323843567
I main bowser, and I prefered him before his buff. Made me work for my kills, literally made me "git gud"

is kirby really better than jiggly?

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>>323846262
>I have only fought bad charizards
Nair, Bair, Fair, Utilt, and Dtilt are all incredible moves and meme blitz is to be saved until the opponent forgets you have it

I'd switch some of the bottom tiers around honestly. Maybe move zelda up a notch but i am just biased because i play her i guess

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>>323845786
>jiggs that LOW
Imagine how soft it is though

>>323846991
That's not low at all

>>323846745
In Sm4sh, there's absolutely no competition, Kirby can combo to hell and back, Jiggly just dies really fast.

>>323845786
>jigglypuff
I don't get this Jigglypuff is female meme

>>323838942
Luigi still has 0 to 70 combos here and there
He just doesn't have his killthrow with down-b anymore

Feels bad knowing Jigglypuff will never get the buff. There's nothing it has going for it. No combos, no setups, just stray hits.

>>323847173
No its actually a big fucking deal you retard. He just cant kill anymore.

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>>323845208
>Still, if he can keep you on your heels he's brutal.
I only face one Mewtwo that was fucking scary, that was able to take down my Fox.

Felt like I was fighting fucking Freeza.
I never knew Mewtwo bair had so much power.

>>323847320
Even with buffs, the nature of the game fucks up Jiggle's strengths namely gimping. Unless the character has a bad recovery or is being played by a shit player, they will make it back on stage 80% of the time regardless of what you do

>>323838291
When the 3DS version first came out he was near the bottom.

>>323838291
He was until he got nerfed.

New tier list is: sheik, zss, rosa, sonic, diddy, ryu.

the rest are irrelevant for now.

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I thought Peach was put up to A tier.

>>323845786
>every single time someone compiles all of the female smashers, they forget Wendy

I feel bad for Wendy.

>>323841895

Same here. As long as I play what's fun to me.

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>>323847612
GOD I love fighting characters with reflectors as Mewtwo and playing tennis with them
>Fighting a Fox
>Cast Shadow Ball
>Fox reflects it
>Reflect it back
>And back
>Once more
>Breaks his reflector and KOs him at 0%
>mfw

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>>323847612
>Felt like I was fighting fucking Freeza.
Protip:
>Lucario is voice by Goku
>Captain Falcon is voice by Vegeta

It's like we had our DBZ crossover all along, and didn't know it.

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>>323846373
I've always wanted to know the context for that

Thank you

>>323847973
Is this minus8?
If not, source pls

>>323847975
>Wendy
>Female

>>323847478
Calm down dumdum
He still gimps alot if characters with down b at early percent even
Just because you can't kill from a grab anymore doesn't mean the character is nerfed to death

Besides just back throw if you are too retarded to get a kill from anything that isn't a grab

>>323848198
It is.

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Official list here.

If you don't main a character from a game you actually like/love, you're nothing but a tierwhore faggot.

>>323849281
>Mii Brawler
I love them waggle sports gaems

>Samus with clothes on
>lowest tier
>Samus takes her clothes off
>Highest tier

Haha wow

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>>323849281
>get annihilated by any character with a sword
>Cloud comes along and it's as if he was made to make my life a living hell
Playing G&W is always worth it

>>323847975
Would not hug or fug.

>>323849281
>Jiggs
I'm okay with Pokemon. It's really just that Melee Kirby was such a slow and unreliable piece of shit I had to switch to her since she was good Kirby, and stuck with her since.

>>323836574
>Mario is A-
>Dr. Mario is C

huh?

>>323850434
Do you even play the video game?

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Since Bowser buff he's definitively around B-
That uptrow combo is just perfect for racking up damages.


I just wish Nintendo would finally buff Zelda a bit...

>>323850434
Dr. Mario has a shitty recovery, less combos and is slower than Mario. Mario is weaker but his combo potential and speed make up for it.

>Rosalina that high
>or even in the tier least at all
Literally a meme character. She's trash. Not even good players are good with Rosalina. I really hope her placement there was intended to be ironic.

Why is samus always dogshit in smash?

>>323850858
D.Mario Up smash throw people horizontally while Mario send them vertically.

>>323850969
she was decent in melee

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>>323847782
>Meta Knight
>Villager
>Pikachu
>irrelevant

>>323850969
Shes good in PM from what I remember.

>>323850927
>literal meat shield to break throw combos, absorb proyectiles and general damage
>bullshit, disjointed aerials that can kill randomly at 60%
>unlosable matchups to Ness and Pac-Man because of Down-B
>fast roll, generally strong by herself anyway
>Luma's neutral air in general
yeah nah you're a cunt

>>323851636
>Counting dead mods

>>323851798
>implying Luma is at all hard to avoid
>implying Rosalina's wonky as hell controls don't prevent people from adequately fighting with her
If you lose to Rosalina you literally need to git gud.

>>323845403
>some of the best combos in the game
>super strong recovery
>reflective smash
>insane z-air spacing
>tons of edgeguarding options
>disjointed hitboxes
>two spikes
>excellent aerial side B spacing

>bad

>>323836574
being a dedede main is suffering
>can't even do a short hop back aerial anymore
kill me

>>323852089
Learn to read, he said Mac was bad, not Lucas

Lucas is great

>>323852041
A hard counter for Rosalina is Mewtwo strangely.

>>323852372
How does that make sense?

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>>323850858
>Dr. Mario has a shitty recovery
Don't act like Mario's recovery is any better, he still suffers from being gimped without that jump thanks to Sakurai nerfing his cape. Mix up your recovery options with Doc and use pills to defend yourself.

>Less combos
He can get the same amount of damage with less hits and can kills a lot earlier than Mario. Plus Doc can get a lot of early kills thanks to gimping with Tornado, Super Sheet, and pills.

I'll give you Doc being slower than Mario and Mario being better than Doc but don't count him out just because he's just a "shittier Mario", people can do well with him.

>>323852041
Just because you're bad with Rosa doesn't mean everyone else is. And its not that Lumas hard to avoid, but the fact that you have to stop whatever you're trying to do just so that Luma doesn't hit you is pretty shitty.

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>>323836574
Tier list I made based on my tourney experience.
If you're B tier or above, you're a viable character.
If you're C tier, you can made to work in tournament but require a secondary for MU coverage.
If you're D tier or below, kek.

>>323852985
No, Rosalina is literally just a bad character and you're bad if you have to switch anything up at all when fighting her.

>>323853290
>Lucas that low

Really? Lucas is at least high C.

>>323839283
>Bayonetta will utterly fuck up Sheik players
Not with that horrible startup and endlag

>>323853428
Bat within.

Witch time.

>>323853535
>Needs a counter to get going
She's fucked

>>323845786
>implying you can't be sexy and cute

>>323853290
>Metaknight and Ryu that high
>Lucas and Shulk that low
Nope

>>323854334
Good Ryus will fuck your shit up.

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>>323850969
not in melee she wasn't

>>323844610
The combo moves still have scaling knockback, but they have less finishing knockback as a combo goes long. All it would take is a safe confirm into a single kill move at high percents. That's all we can no for now, but it would not come as a surprise at all if she has easy upward links into earlier finishers if started from mid air.

>>323854449
>Skill = Tiers
A good player will fuck you up, not a character anon.

>>323854465
Melee Samus is scary fair. She plays the neutral game with the most spaced tilts of any character in the game while still having reads that lead to early kills.

Smash 4 she still has her tilts, but fucking everything is unsafe on HIT and she has trash pressure options thanks to hakurai's landing lag and slowshit jumps.

>>323853364
Sounds like you're just bad with one of the best characters in the game
Must suck to suck

>>323853290
>Mewtwo that high
Please elaborate anon

>>323845954
It's all in attitude.

>>323854334
Shulk is shit and there's no way around it, but Lucas should definitely be up in the "viable" tiers if he's got shit like Mewtwo and Cloud there as well
Actually, what in the fucking fuck is Cloud doing in A? His recovery is worse than Little Mac's.

>smash 4
seriously guys?

>>323854465
>Leffen without knowing the match-up, and this changes next time and he does know it
This clip is supposed to prove what?

>>323836574
this thread is always the same

>why is x so high
>why is x so low

>>323856620
I agree that Shulk isn't good, but he should be up a tier at least. Also Clouds recovery isn't as bad as macs, let's not get carried away.

>>323848921
>Critical of every player except duck hunt

Go to bed Duck Hunt main

>>323836574
Little Mac, MewTwo, Mega/Pac Man should be higher, Rosalina, Diddy, and Yoshi should be lower.

>>323836574
That is such a 1.08 list it hurts

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>>323840207
Why would he need it? He's already perfect.

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>>323857213
>Cloud
>has wall jump
>has decent aerial mobility
>has a relatively short midair jump
>Climhazzard climbs a pitiful vertical distance and zero horizontal distance, doesn't snap to the ledge
>you just can't rely on Limit Break every time

>Little Mac
>has wall jump
>has high aerial mobility
>midair jump is very short
>has both Jolt Haymaker for OK horizontal recovery and Rising Uppercut for pitiful vertical recovery. Uppercut doesn't snap to ledge but is a multihit move which makes it more difficult to edgeguard

Now tell me which of these is worse in your opinion.

>>323852838
His upB and jumps both go farther, this isnt up for debate

Docs upair sends opponents away, its objectively shit for combos

>>323857994
Not him but Cloud has better vertical recovery, Mac might have better horizontal. And with limit hes easily better

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>>323858323
Neither of them is going to make it if they were knocked far down unless the stage gives them the opportunity to wall jump or Cloud just happens to have LB charged up. If Mac got knocked out of the stage in a <45 degree angle he can still make it with his horizontal options, or take the alternative route by using his aerial mobility to hug the wall of the appropriate stage and wall jump + upB back to the ledge. They're both really crap at recovering though, and the moment Cloud in particular uses Climhazzard next to the ledge he's cannon fodder for any character to hit him back before he can grab the ledge. For this reason alone he will never be high tier.

>All you gotta do to beat X is Y and they are fucked.
Characters have their flaws and merits across the board. But if you are a good player, have solid fundamentals especially in the read and mixup game you can play just about anyone.
Comparing characters, while fun, doesn't determine the winner, that comes down to the player.

Anyone else taking a break until the bayo patch? I just can't deal with the game anymore, so little has been done to meaningfully fix it. I wish more characters were given the attention Ike got instead of getting grab game buffs and then forgotten

>>323857994
Cloud's Air speed is much better than Mac's. And he has aeirals he can actually use. You're an idiot if you think recovery is the only problem preventing Mac from being good. It's the complete and utter lack of an air game. Cloud's air game outside of recovery is disgustingly good.

>>323861549
I just dont take the game seriously. Its funner that way.

>>323861990
>I just dont take the game seriously. Its funner that way.

i play it at a friends every saturday for like 3 hours. the game is god tier when limited to a time frame like that

getting fully invested in it would likely make me rip my hair out

>>323861549

yeah; some characters like Lucas/Robin/Mewtwo/Ike/Kirby got some meaningful, focused buffs that complement their design though Kirby may just be innately flawed at this point

they give Ganon attention every fucking patch yet he's budged little more than an inch. a grab range longer than my fingernail and a bit of juice in air speed would fucking help, along with his Fair actually cancelling in a full hop

>tfw you think puppet characters are neat but people keep chewing you out for playing rosalina

>>323862508
>Kirby may just be innately flawed at this point
True.

All he needs is either range or Aerial mobility,ad he'll be pretty much set until the next instalment

>>323862794
Never going to happen, he's designed to be shit at getting in but really dangerous once he gets in. He'll never be made dangerous when he gets in because custom moves already do and they don't want to break him in customs.

>>323856909
>he didn't see Leffen recently get raped by Duck, a significantly worse Samus player than Plup

>>323863103
>jobben
>good

>>323863014
I don't understand that logic. Custom moves for the most part are just extras thrown in a neat bonus. They do help some characters in certain areas but the only ones actually feel as if they were designed around them are obviously Palutena and the Mii Fighters.

>>323836574
Swap Luigi with Mario, and bump Ryu to A rank, and you've got a solid tier list there. Everything else doesn't matter/is in the correct spot.

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>>323841514
You should be livid because nintentodlers haven't played even 1/4 of the games or series represented in smash

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>>323845957
>shiek
>husbando

Anon, she never changes gender.

>>323863103
Leffen was out of training because he couldnt join USA tournaments.

>the dong
>that low
nah m8 its shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0bpagKaDqE

>>323853290

Hi Abadango. I didn't know you went on 4chan.

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>puff and shulk not in complete trash tier
>roy being 3 tiers higher than marth
old tier lists were pretty bad

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>>323866910
This is his tier list
>Cloud in top 5

>>323844393
>Rosalina
>having any issues worth of mentioning
LOL

>>323867716

Say that after playing a good MK with her. She gets absolutely wrecked because of that specific shortcoming

>>323853290
>Metaknight and Cloud that high
>Lucas that low
>Marth higher than Roy

yeah, no

>>323867606
Roy IS 3 tiers higher than Marth.

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>>323854951
Seriously? I destroy every Rosalina I ever fight. You're hot dog water, bro.

>>323849928
why'd they redesign him him he looks worse

>>323869164
It's 2016, stop believing in this meme.

I main Peach and feel like she is at least A- tier. Bowser is at least a B.

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>>323863103
He dropped really hard after last EVO.

>>323848090
I'm calling bullshit on this

>>323836574
That's not even close to current tiers

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>>323847612
Fuck everyone calling Mewtwo shit.
Mewtwo is a force to be reckon with.

If you don't act fast when facing Mewtwo, get ready to suck Mewtwo's big purple dick.

>>323869145
Exactly this, MK is out ranged by everyone, Lucas is a camping mayhem and Roy has higher skill ceiling than Jab cancel to Forward Smash or Uptilt spam.

>>323872015
Ryô Horikawa did Vegeta and Falcon (Japanese)
Sean Schemmel did Goku and Lucario (English)