absolutely anything that requires skill can be considered an art. The Latin word for skill and art are the same: "ars". The interaction between the player and the game world provides a unique artistic canvas that couldn't have possibly been explored until modern times.
>>323756513 I think that's the problem, so many games (especially indies) seem like they were created to felate the authour rather than displaying a message, interactivity is so powerful because it allows empathy in a way other mediums can't.
The game was 75% bullshit missions that were boring as fuck and no story outside of the opening and the ending. The setting and gameplay are pretty good, but I feel the awkward R* movement feel gets in the way of truly enjoying the game.
Video games are an art, but not all games are art, most are entertainment, cod, fifa etc. A game jike journey, popo & yoyo, rain, submerged, are art, artistic games that tell a story in a non natrative form, coulors, sounds, movement and patterns.
art1 ärt/ noun noun: art; plural noun: arts; plural noun: the arts 1. the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power. "the art of the Renaissance"
Red Dead is probably one of the best games ever made. Anyone can pick it up and love it, form the simple things to the more complex things. The DLC even was like a full game for 16 bucks. The single player story was 10/10. The Multiplayer was endless fun/10. Even if the game came out in 2010, if they were to port it to PC I would replay it 100%. I was born and raised around hell's angels/ride alongs so John Marston and the story felt right at home.
The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
Video games aren't art because programming isn't, simple as that. There's only two types of games possible on a computer: spatial communication and flowchart traversal. Thus, the only artistic merit of video games has to come from other mediums, such as visual art, music, storytelling, etc.
>>323760927 Paintings itself aren't art, they're the medium by which one communicates the art. The art happens in the artist's mind.
Programming also happens in the head of the programmer, but it isn't art because it operates in a completely deterministic and limited system that can be solved. The question you need to answer if you want to say whether video games are art is whether Chess is art and whether playing chess means appreciating art.
>>323761225 What a pointless agenda. Don't they know that the critics of actual high art are also worthless parasites on the industry? All artists look down on critics one way or another. Literature might be an exception to this, though, I'm not sure.
>>323755953 some, far to much of it is to commercialized to be as expressive or complex enough to be art. >le look at how deepu muy undertalu isu >HOW DARE "KILL THE FAGGOT" EVEN OH MY TRIGGEREDED >I'm under represented >There needs more PC or I wont spend my muny >You just don't get Bioshock Infinite cause the story is so "complex"
>>323759194 Are you looking at games as a whole or strictly the gameplay mechanics? Holding an analog stick forward and moving a rectangle around a plane might not be art but if you give context to that movement I think it could be.
>>323758665 >What is the important difference between COD and journey? I would say the passion put in it, but obviously the narrative is what sets it apart, journey tells a story by interpretation, I saw it as life, death and rebirth, cod, well I havent played one since mw3 but I cant remember the story of any of the few ive played but in general its a shooty shooty get to the chopper game
>>323762350 >What kind of emotions do you feel when playing pong against a computer? Your nitpicking a game that jas very little need of anything really games have evolved that i can tell you right now Journey really was an amazing and relaxing and exicting and kinda dangerous journey
>You know, the whole point of abstract art is that it's stripped down to the core of what visual Games can do that, and they have
>>323762350 >What kind of emotions do you feel when playing pong against a computer?
Why does it somehow become invalid because a few games don't evoke emotional response? That's an unreasonable distinction that for something to be an art, every single example must present an emotional response
>>323761225 It's not really a meme though. If you'd take off your blinders for just a second you might be able to see how obvious it is. The typical videogame is a combination of graphics, music, and structured mechanics that are meant to produce some sort of emotional response. If that's not art I don't know what is.
>>323762550 What kind of emotions do you feel when playing Tetris?
>>323762579 >>323762550 We're trying to determine if the artistic worth of videogames comes from gameplay, as in the thing that makes it a game, or if it comes from secondary elements such as graphics, story and music. If gameplay itself isn't art, then every game in existence would be better off being a book or a movie. Saying that video games are art because they contain other art forms is like saying a photo album is an artistic medium because it contains photography.
Also, journey sucked. You must have really shit taste if it took a game like that to fool you into thinking that video games are art. Read a book or something.
>>323762915 >What kind of emotions do you feel when playing Tetris? You're doing it again,you pick a game that has very little merit if you eant an answer i get an excited, frustrated, and idk what youd call trying to solve a puzzle but i can get all those yes from a game like tetris
/v/ hates people calling just any game art, as well as the games that "try" to be artsy but are nothing more than shallow experiences that offer nothing more than some flashy visuals and pretentious themes.
People generally accept that games like Another World and Ico are unique titles that try to be more than just games. Then you have crap like Bioshock Infinite that attempts to be emotionally engaging, but is completely undermined by both its convoluted narrative and lackluster gameplay.
>>323762915 Im saying video games are art like movies and books are because you cna get a varied amount of feelings coming from it like movies it can be from the stories and even the setting and gameplay
And eat shit you self masturbating faggot Journey was a great game and a great example, but im sure youll dish out any game we tell you is art as shit wont yah
Says you. And even again, just because not every game creates an emotional resonance does that mean all games can't be art. It's not like there's some quota that must be reached by a collective number of works for certain things to be considered art.
>>323763010 Again you assume that the physical painting is the art itself. Painting is a medium. As long as the medium has enough depth to communicate the art, it suffices. Painting is limited, but visual art itself is not.
But as it stands now, computers are the only medium of video games, and they're not deep enough to convey anything but space interaction and flowcharts. In every single game ever, you're either moving an object towards another object or choosing nodes on a branching path. Tasks all solvable by the computer itself.
>>323763359 >Not all movies aren't strictly made to be sold. Video games are Wtf, Video games totally are selling them or making them free is just a good eay to make a living off it but a lot of games are made with the same pashion and intrest that some director has for his movie
>Video games have objective purposes, movies do not Again no they dont, games have evolved to be whatever they want and they have wat are you and the other guy old men or something?
>Chess is not art And neither is pong, but you can argue Deus Ex and Jounrey are
>>323763379 If the emotional engagement you get from playing a video game comes from the story, the visual component or the music, then it only proves that storytelling, visual art and music are art. It doesn't prove that gameplay is art.
I'd say gameplay do the opposite of invoking emotion or thought. They reduce you to automation and reflex.
Video games are definitely art, but trying to evaluate every video game like its an art piece is bad for the medium. It's why no one would call "Get Hard" Starring Will Ferrell and Kevin Hart art, even though most people are fine in generally agreeing that movies are art.
>>323763720 Yeah it does its the gameplay that helsp you experiance the whole thing, you have to control the outcome to go and see what this game has to tell you, like seeing a movie that stays only in 1 setting but all the characters abd plot go in a different direction
Then you got shit like deus ex and fallout where the whole story changes depending on your choice, and yes those stories have sole artistic merit in them
>>323763830 "Restriction leads to more creativity" is a bad meme. The mona lisa couldn't have been painted with three shades of brown watercolor on a piece of toilet paper. >>323763959 I'd say if your game is a walking simulator, just cut the middle man and make it a movie or a short story. The gameplay contributes nothing to the experience.
>>323764018 Who would think of fucking glazed donut as the buns? Its probably way to sweet and sugary and doesn't compliment the meat / cheese / bacon at all, and not only that, having to grab it and squeeze down in order to take a bit probably leaves your hands a sugary sticky mess.
>>323762915 I think something is added when you bring interactivity into the mix. When you watch a movie, you're a passive observer, you're clearly separated from the events happening on the screen. Compare that to a game.
You have some amount of control over your character and the events of the game. I hate to use the phrase but I think in some cases you can become more immersed in a game because you have to actively participate. In a way the events of the game are happening to you. One of the most powerful parts of mgs3 is obviously when Snake has to kill the Boss. They could have just done it in a normal cutscene and I'm sure it would have been fine but they went a little farther. Instead of just passively watching a cutscene they had the player actually pull the trigger by requiring them to press the shooting button. I think this increased the connection the player had with Snake because they actually had to perform the action not just watch it happen.
Depends. Something like Journey, despite being it's shortness, can be quite engaging since it's got a visually interesting world and a unique form of communication players have to rely on. Maybe it's not for everyone, but it still allows for a form of bond with complete strangers exploring a mysterious world.
Then you have things like Dear Esther and Everybody's gone to the Rapture. While both have some interesting narrative elements, the fact that you're pretty much just walking up to things/along things to hear tidbits of dialogue just make it feel like a movie that's being individually displayed on numerous walls that you have to walk over to in order to see every part.
>>323764372 Art relies on the artist having absolute control over the piece. A writer is the god of his own book. When you give the audience agency, you take it away from artist.
Think of a HL2 cutscene. The scene becomes less powerful when the player is jumping on top of the actors' heads and throwing trash at their faces. It only works when the player plays along. But the player not playing along is the whole point of a video game, you're supposed to do what you want.
Video games are about player agency. Art is about the artist's control. Those two are mutually exclusive. The only way to stop the player from breaking the art is taking away their control, which makes it less of a video game. The only way to give the player more freedom is to take it away from the artist, which makes it less of an art.
>>323763221 >If something has pretentious themes its not art The definition of art shouldn't be a measure of quality. If work attempts to generate an emotional response from someone it is art. Might be bad art but art all the same.
>>323764964 I've heard this argument before and it always seemed a bit arbitrary to me. Lets say a game designer sets out to produce a specific emotional response from a player. He's created graphics, music, and a set of structured mechanics all to create that emotional response. Might be fear from a monster chasing your avatar down a hallway, guilt from mowing down an airport of civilians, sadness from trying and failing to save a downed helicopter pilot. He's created a framework for the player to experience something. The idea that because the designers framework requires some interactivity from the player, it loses all artistic merit just doesn't hold water with me.
Because they were some the most recent games to be considered art without trying to be art. In that, they were just striving to be fun games based on simple concepts (a boy meets girl adventure, and a boss rush romance story). Nowadays, most games that try to be "art" just do very flimsy shit like make the story bare bones and think "if we force everyone to make up their own conclusions, we'll be considered as great as the masters of literature!"
>>323767452 > Nowadays, most games that try to be "art" just do very flimsy shit like make the story bare bones and think "if we force everyone to make up their own conclusions, we'll be considered as great as the masters of literature!"
Ironically that describes both team ico games perfectly.
Except it doesn't. Ico and Shadow of the Colossus tell more than enough for their stories. They might leave the details that intricately tie both games together, but they were never meant to be heavily tied like a series with numerical sequels.
>>323767839 Game looks pretty sick but there's something about the way your run, jump and grab things in ico and sotc that makes it feel so genuine. This could be "nostalgia" though since I haven't played them since release
Simple things can have light plot elements. Then you have things that try to be deep and meaningful, like the Matrix trilogy, which bogs itself down with a lot of themes and symbolism that ultimately all end up either not panning out that well or fall completely flat.
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