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I'm going to say the sentence that /v/ hates:
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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games

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I'm going to say the sentence that /v/ hates:

'Video games are art'
>>
>>323755953
I'm going to say a sentence that's true:
"OP is a faggot"
>>
>>323755953
Parts of games might be art, animation, the models, textures, music.

But the whole thing together is a system. Not an art.
>>
you want all the recognition of art but none of the criticism

sorry, doesn't work that way
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>>323756132
You just proved my point.
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>>323756154
Video games are art.

Pissing your name in the snow is art.

We shouldn't confuse something being "art" with a measure of quality.
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>>323756193
There's nothing wrong with criticism though. Games get that all the time.
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I like how Red Dead did it, story has a deep message but it didn't get in the way of the gameplay being fun and the world cool as fuck

Then shit eating nigger faggots like Naughty dog write some Oscar bait shit that's just a tech demo in disguise and are handed millions of dollars
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>>323756396

What isn't art then?
>>
absolutely anything that requires skill can be considered an art. The Latin word for skill and art are the same: "ars". The interaction between the player and the game world provides a unique artistic canvas that couldn't have possibly been explored until modern times.
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>>323757635
Nothing, if we see art as expression, art is practically everything we do.
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>>323756513
I think that's the problem, so many games (especially indies) seem like they were created to felate the authour rather than displaying a message, interactivity is so powerful because it allows empathy in a way other mediums can't.
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>>323755953
>Red Dead
>Art

The game was 75% bullshit missions that were boring as fuck and no story outside of the opening and the ending. The setting and gameplay are pretty good, but I feel the awkward R* movement feel gets in the way of truly enjoying the game.
>>
Video games are an art, but not all games are art, most are entertainment, cod, fifa etc. A game jike journey, popo & yoyo, rain, submerged, are art, artistic games that tell a story in a non natrative form, coulors, sounds, movement and patterns.
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>>323757635
Video games.
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>>323757971
What is your definition of art?
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>>323755953
> video games are art
sure, they can be...

> rdr is art
yeah, no, go fuck yourself, that game was trash story wise
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>>323757721

That's stupid. You're stupid.

>>323757971
>A game jike journey, popo & yoyo, rain, submerged, are art
What is the important difference between COD and journey?
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>>323758327
>sure, they can be...
pic unrelarted
>>
isn't it literally art tho
i mean someone has to draw stuff
>>
What about Dragon, the Cancer?
>>
Search Results

art1
ärt/
noun
noun: art; plural noun: arts; plural noun: the arts
1.
the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
"the art of the Renaissance"
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>>323758965
The drawing is art without a little man running around stabbing monsters, stabbing monsters without the drawings is still a game.
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>>323758965
>>323755953
>>323756290
>>323756426
No its entertainment

Video games have objectives and rules, art has no meaning other than itself
>>
Red Dead is probably one of the best games ever made. Anyone can pick it up and love it, form the simple things to the more complex things. The DLC even was like a full game for 16 bucks. The single player story was 10/10. The Multiplayer was endless fun/10. Even if the game came out in 2010, if they were to port it to PC I would replay it 100%. I was born and raised around hell's angels/ride alongs so John Marston and the story felt right at home.
>>
Video games are art. That vase in the charity shop with a dog on it selling for 2 bucks is art. Shitty kids drawings are art. Shit smeared on a wall is art.

Video games are indeed art, and that does not mean a thing.
>>
Correct, they are art in a possibly artistic medium governed by an entertainment profit-driven industry.
>>
Art definition.

The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.

I guess games can be art.
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>>323759194

damn, cold logic!
>>
Video games aren't art because programming isn't, simple as that.
There's only two types of games possible on a computer: spatial communication and flowchart traversal.
Thus, the only artistic merit of video games has to come from other mediums, such as visual art, music, storytelling, etc.

Gameplay itself is not art.
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>>323759194
>Video games have objectives and rules
They dont have too and there are games that don't
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>>323760432
Thank you for that nice contribution to the discussion
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>>323759194
>Entertainment doesn't count as an art
Oh boy.
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>>323755953
Some are like how some movies are and arent in a way, its also subjective and up to you, Art is not tied down to what some asshole thinks
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>>323760786

you're just jealous a pepe poster is so smart
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>>323760678
>'Painting's aren't art because oil paste isn't'
Your logic in a nutshell.
>>
It doesn't matter if they are or aren't. It's a question for historians 500 years from now
>>
Vidya= art meme is strongly pushed by pretentious hipster gaming journos from polygon/kotaku and pretentious hipster indie devs.

Because they don't want to be worthless parasites on the gaming industry, they want to be cultured artists/critics.
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>>323760927
Paintings itself aren't art, they're the medium by which one communicates the art. The art happens in the artist's mind.

Programming also happens in the head of the programmer, but it isn't art because it operates in a completely deterministic and limited system that can be solved.
The question you need to answer if you want to say whether video games are art is whether Chess is art and whether playing chess means appreciating art.
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>>323760885
pepe poster watched that episode of Top Gear.
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it's art, but it isn't a fine, respected art

this is basic stuff, people
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>>323761225
What a pointless agenda.
Don't they know that the critics of actual high art are also worthless parasites on the industry?
All artists look down on critics one way or another.
Literature might be an exception to this, though, I'm not sure.
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>>323759194
Lol, literature is art faggot, and literature has some purpose into it beyond I'm just literature.
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>>323761491
Literature is not art
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Anyone that tries to argue what is and isnt art hasnt made anything meaningful in there life
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Well... They are not on their own. Videogames use art to build themselves. A game has writing, music, design and so on with the ability to interact with it.
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>>323759194
>art has no meaning other than itself
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>>323755953
some, far to much of it is to commercialized to be as expressive or complex enough to be art.
>le look at how deepu muy undertalu isu
>HOW DARE "KILL THE FAGGOT" EVEN OH MY TRIGGEREDED
>I'm under represented
>There needs more PC or I wont spend my muny
>You just don't get Bioshock Infinite cause the story is so "complex"
>>
>>323761307
Programming is a tool. You create things in programming. It's upto you if want it art or not.

Programmers don't really make games. The vision is within the designer who design it.

Art also has structure. You just don't make random things and expect emotions to flood through. You need to study it. Understand it. Inspire from it. Create it.
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>>323761617
But if you strip down everything and leave only the core gameplay, is it still art?
Is Pong art?
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>>323758063
Mainly that it was created by and with passion, I doubt a football game is created like that anymore its just to make money.
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>>323761634
Don't you ever reply to me again without a counter point
>>
Anything can be art.
This post is art.
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>>323755953
Well, anything can be art, of course.
Dunno why this would upset anyone.
After all, if you don't like something, you will do the same things we humans always do: destroy it.

So why be mad if someone eventually will destroy that thing you dislike?
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>>323761806
It evokes the emotional expression the designer wanted.
Might as well call it art.
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>>323761806
You can make that argument about movies and music too prickface

Is Citzen Kane art if you strip the acting, the sets, the story
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>>323757721
This is art fags end up jobless in the street.
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>>323757635
Something with a practical use. Art is about language; a vessel for ideas and emotion, and nothing else.
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>>323761930
This sub is known for two things anon: rage and OC.
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>>323759194
Are you looking at games as a whole or strictly the gameplay mechanics? Holding an analog stick forward and moving a rectangle around a plane might not be art but if you give context to that movement I think it could be.
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>>323758665
>What is the important difference between COD and journey?
I would say the passion put in it, but obviously the narrative is what sets it apart, journey tells a story by interpretation, I saw it as life, death and rebirth, cod, well I havent played one since mw3 but I cant remember the story of any of the few ive played but in general its a shooty shooty get to the chopper game
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>>323762238
Cod4 is the struggle of man to survive against itself.
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>>323761604

Except for the fact that it is
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>>323761736
The difference is that the depth of a program is limited by its architecture, while the depth of art is only limited by the minds of the artist and audience.

>>323761941
What kind of emotions do you feel when playing pong against a computer?

>>323761972
The difference is that other mediums hold up.
You know, the whole point of abstract art is that it's stripped down to the core of what visual communication is: shapes and colors.
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>>323758665
>A game jike journey, popo & yoyo, rain, submerged, are art
>What is the important difference between COD and journey
Are you seriously asking this or is your head that far up your ass?
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>>323756396
Fucking nailed it.
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>>323761890

You don't have a point, nigger
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>>323762350
>What kind of emotions do you feel when playing pong against a computer?
Your nitpicking a game that jas very little need of anything really games have evolved that i can tell you right now Journey really was an amazing and relaxing and exicting and kinda dangerous journey

>You know, the whole point of abstract art is that it's stripped down to the core of what visual
Games can do that, and they have
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>>323762350
Then, by that logic, movies are not art. Cameron made Avatar's script was made 10 years before it's production. Production was simply not possible because of production limitations then.
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>>323762350
>What kind of emotions do you feel when playing pong against a computer?

Why does it somehow become invalid because a few games don't evoke emotional response? That's an unreasonable distinction that for something to be an art, every single example must present an emotional response
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>>323761225
It's not really a meme though. If you'd take off your blinders for just a second you might be able to see how obvious it is. The typical videogame is a combination of graphics, music, and structured mechanics that are meant to produce some sort of emotional response. If that's not art I don't know what is.
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ITT: retards thinking a mass produced entertainment product should be called art. if Mona Lisa was mass produced strictly to be sold it wouldn't be art, it would be a decoration
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>>323762115
Is that good?
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>>323762550
What kind of emotions do you feel when playing Tetris?

>>323762579
>>323762550
We're trying to determine if the artistic worth of videogames comes from gameplay, as in the thing that makes it a game, or if it comes from secondary elements such as graphics, story and music. If gameplay itself isn't art, then every game in existence would be better off being a book or a movie.
Saying that video games are art because they contain other art forms is like saying a photo album is an artistic medium because it contains photography.

Also, journey sucked. You must have really shit taste if it took a game like that to fool you into thinking that video games are art. Read a book or something.
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>>323762794
Movies are not art then. We should keep Citizen Kane out of the streaming services.
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>>323757635
A medium of expression whose end product provides entertainment and can induce emotion from its consumer.
Books, movies, paintings, sculptures, music, and video games are art.
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>>323762794
>retards thinking a mass produced entertainment product should be called ar
Then so are movies, oh thats right weve had like a million movies considered true patrician cinema over at /tv/

Games liek movies vary all the fucking time, yeah there are cash cows, but who cares when we also have a lot of diamonds in the rust
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>>323759194
Good job on crafting a sentence that means nothing.
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>>323762350
>The difference is that the depth of a program is limited by its architecture

The depth of a painting is limited by the size of the canvas and the pigments possible with the chosen paint. Painting is not art
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>>323762915
>What kind of emotions do you feel when playing Tetris?
You're doing it again,you pick a game that has very little merit if you eant an answer i get an excited, frustrated, and idk what youd call trying to solve a puzzle but i can get all those yes from a game like tetris
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>>323762794
>Retards that think quality should define whether or not something is art.
>>
Is this art?
https://youtu.be/_fle5uGpBcc
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/v/ doesn't hate games being called art.

/v/ hates people calling just any game art, as well as the games that "try" to be artsy but are nothing more than shallow experiences that offer nothing more than some flashy visuals and pretentious themes.

People generally accept that games like Another World and Ico are unique titles that try to be more than just games. Then you have crap like Bioshock Infinite that attempts to be emotionally engaging, but is completely undermined by both its convoluted narrative and lackluster gameplay.
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>>323763126
What? You thought art only involves wine and Roman Architecture?
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>>323762915
Im saying video games are art like movies and books are because you cna get a varied amount of feelings coming from it like movies it can be from the stories and even the setting and gameplay

And eat shit you self masturbating faggot Journey was a great game and a great example, but im sure youll dish out any game we tell you is art as shit wont yah
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>>323762946
>>323762916
Not all movies aren't strictly made to be sold. Video games are. Video games have objective purposes, movies do not. Chess is not art. Wargames can be artistic in value.
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>>323762915
>Also, journey sucked.

Says you. And even again, just because not every game creates an emotional resonance does that mean all games can't be art. It's not like there's some quota that must be reached by a collective number of works for certain things to be considered art.
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>>323763010
Again you assume that the physical painting is the art itself.
Painting is a medium. As long as the medium has enough depth to communicate the art, it suffices.
Painting is limited, but visual art itself is not.

But as it stands now, computers are the only medium of video games, and they're not deep enough to convey anything but space interaction and flowcharts.
In every single game ever, you're either moving an object towards another object or choosing nodes on a branching path. Tasks all solvable by the computer itself.
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>>323763359
No, there are plenty of games that are free and single player.
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>>323763359

Having an objective doesn't change squat. If the work produces something of an emotional response, then it's got artistic merit
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>>323763359
>Not all movies aren't strictly made to be sold. Video games are
Wtf, Video games totally are selling them or making them free is just a good eay to make a living off it but a lot of games are made with the same pashion and intrest that some director has for his movie

>Video games have objective purposes, movies do not
Again no they dont, games have evolved to be whatever they want and they have wat are you and the other guy old men or something?

>Chess is not art
And neither is pong, but you can argue Deus Ex and Jounrey are
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>>323763379
If the emotional engagement you get from playing a video game comes from the story, the visual component or the music, then it only proves that storytelling, visual art and music are art.
It doesn't prove that gameplay is art.

I'd say gameplay do the opposite of invoking emotion or thought. They reduce you to automation and reflex.
>>
>>323763454
Then by that logic gameplay is art. Not just that, the restriction of such architecture provides the designer to creative in many ways.

>Same way artists do.
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Video games are definitely art, but trying to evaluate every video game like its an art piece is bad for the medium. It's why no one would call "Get Hard" Starring Will Ferrell and Kevin Hart art, even though most people are fine in generally agreeing that movies are art.
>>
>>323763720

But the gameplay can be a factor, at least in the games that still let you control actions and thus feel like you're doing something and not just doing a quick task for the next morsel of cut-scene.
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>>323763720
So, your're saying walking simulators are better candidate as art?
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>>323763720
Yeah it does its the gameplay that helsp you experiance the whole thing, you have to control the outcome to go and see what this game has to tell you, like seeing a movie that stays only in 1 setting but all the characters abd plot go in a different direction

Then you got shit like deus ex and fallout where the whole story changes depending on your choice, and yes those stories have sole artistic merit in them
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>>323762806
i've had one and no, it's the definition of memefood
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>>323763830
"Restriction leads to more creativity" is a bad meme.
The mona lisa couldn't have been painted with three shades of brown watercolor on a piece of toilet paper.
>>323763959
I'd say if your game is a walking simulator, just cut the middle man and make it a movie or a short story. The gameplay contributes nothing to the experience.
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>>323762961
So what you are saying is that his sentence is art
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>>323755953
So is a steaming pile of shit if the creator states as much.
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>>323764018
Who would think of fucking glazed donut as the buns? Its probably way to sweet and sugary and doesn't compliment the meat / cheese / bacon at all, and not only that, having to grab it and squeeze down in order to take a bit probably leaves your hands a sugary sticky mess.
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>>323762915
I think something is added when you bring interactivity into the mix. When you watch a movie, you're a passive observer, you're clearly separated from the events happening on the screen. Compare that to a game.

You have some amount of control over your character and the events of the game. I hate to use the phrase but I think in some cases you can become more immersed in a game because you have to actively participate. In a way the events of the game are happening to you.
One of the most powerful parts of mgs3 is obviously when Snake has to kill the Boss. They could have just done it in a normal cutscene and I'm sure it would have been fine but they went a little farther. Instead of just passively watching a cutscene they had the player actually pull the trigger by requiring them to press the shooting button. I think this increased the connection the player had with Snake because they actually had to perform the action not just watch it happen.
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>>323764132
Strip Mona Lisa of it's physical aspects it would still be considered as art.

Paint it with three shades of brown watercolor on a piece of toilet paper and it would still be considered as art.
>>
Video games are artistic toys. Toys that have artistic value. There, happy?
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>>323763959

Depends. Something like Journey, despite being it's shortness, can be quite engaging since it's got a visually interesting world and a unique form of communication players have to rely on. Maybe it's not for everyone, but it still allows for a form of bond with complete strangers exploring a mysterious world.

Then you have things like Dear Esther and Everybody's gone to the Rapture. While both have some interesting narrative elements, the fact that you're pretty much just walking up to things/along things to hear tidbits of dialogue just make it feel like a movie that's being individually displayed on numerous walls that you have to walk over to in order to see every part.
>>
Just because people consider certain games to be art doesn't mean you have to, OP. Nobody is holding you at gun point and forcing you to agree that Portal is a work of art.
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>>323764372
Art relies on the artist having absolute control over the piece.
A writer is the god of his own book.
When you give the audience agency, you take it away from artist.

Think of a HL2 cutscene. The scene becomes less powerful when the player is jumping on top of the actors' heads and throwing trash at their faces.
It only works when the player plays along. But the player not playing along is the whole point of a video game, you're supposed to do what you want.

Video games are about player agency. Art is about the artist's control. Those two are mutually exclusive.
The only way to stop the player from breaking the art is taking away their control, which makes it less of a video game. The only way to give the player more freedom is to take it away from the artist, which makes it less of an art.
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>>323755953
That exact line is taken seriously and we end up with movie games like The Order.
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>>323763221
>If something has pretentious themes its not art
The definition of art shouldn't be a measure of quality. If work attempts to generate an emotional response from someone it is art. Might be bad art but art all the same.
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>>323764964
Unless the artist's intention is to provide freedom in it's work. After all, you can shit on Mona Lisa and it's artistic value falls down.
>>
Didnt we settle this before games can be considered art but a game shouldn't try to be "art". Also do you guys ever hear people say TV Shows are art?
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>>323755953

For gods sake of course it's fucking art.

Shitting in your hand, taking a photograph and putting a plaque beside it is art.

If games aren't art, the word has no meaning.

You may now proceed to agree and/or kill yourselves.
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>>323764964

Art is about appealing to the senses and emotion.

Food is an art, and appeals to the sense off taste, smell, and sight (though the last one doesn't have to matter as much given how some great food can look terrible).

Games might only really involve the sense of sight and sound, since touch doesn't really enter the equation even with vibration on. But they still evoke emotional responses in the player
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>>323765293
I'm just gonna put >>323764950 's word here.
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Video games weren't art until Undertale was released
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>>323765585
*Cough**Cough* SotC *Cough**Cough*
>>
>>323765585

>Mfucking implying
>>
>>323764964
I've heard this argument before and it always seemed a bit arbitrary to me. Lets say a game designer sets out to produce a specific emotional response from a player. He's created graphics, music, and a set of structured mechanics all to create that emotional response. Might be fear from a monster chasing your avatar down a hallway, guilt from mowing down an airport of civilians, sadness from trying and failing to save a downed helicopter pilot. He's created a framework for the player to experience something. The idea that because the designers framework requires some interactivity from the player, it loses all artistic merit just doesn't hold water with me.
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>>323765653
I never understood this. It's my favourite game and I consider all games to be art, but why do people like to single out sotc and ico?
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>>323767150
Because it is exceptional. Unlike any other.
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>>323767150

Because they were some the most recent games to be considered art without trying to be art. In that, they were just striving to be fun games based on simple concepts (a boy meets girl adventure, and a boss rush romance story). Nowadays, most games that try to be "art" just do very flimsy shit like make the story bare bones and think "if we force everyone to make up their own conclusions, we'll be considered as great as the masters of literature!"
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>>323767286
True but so was Goblet Grotto to an extent, but that's pushed aside as a meme game
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>>323755953
>'Video games are art'
Stop saying it that way. It just makes people laugh at videogames.

"Videogames CAN be art" this is the right one. But barely any games do this.
>>
>>323767286
>>323767452
Will there ever be another game that captures the same feel as SotC?
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>>323767452
> Nowadays, most games that try to be "art" just do very flimsy shit like make the story bare bones and think "if we force everyone to make up their own conclusions, we'll be considered as great as the masters of literature!"

Ironically that describes both team ico games perfectly.
>>
Everything can be seen as art, whether or not it is good art is subjected to the individual's opinion.
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>>323767661

Prey for the Gods might, if it can show it's more than just SotC with a chick and a snowy setting.

Titan Souls is a bit similar. Though you have to be really forgiving of the one hit kill life system.
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>>323764137
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>>323767690

Except it doesn't. Ico and Shadow of the Colossus tell more than enough for their stories. They might leave the details that intricately tie both games together, but they were never meant to be heavily tied like a series with numerical sequels.
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>>323767839
Game looks pretty sick but there's something about the way your run, jump and grab things in ico and sotc that makes it feel so genuine. This could be "nostalgia" though since I haven't played them since release
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>>323768025

Well, nobody how PotG plays aside from the "gameplay" in the trailer. It might either be as nice and fluid as SotC, or turn out very buggy
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>>323767953
Doesn't feel too good when someone is dismissive towards your own favorite game, does it anon?
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>>323767953
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>>323768372

It wasn't being dismissive, just misattributing my point.
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>>323768457

Oh boy, smug reaction image somehow proves me wrong? Nah, not how it works, junior.
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>>323767953
I mostly agree with this, but they leave a lot to the imagination. Not the best story but it's a pretty unique way of telling the story for a relatively unique game
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>>323768685
Looking back at what I just posted I don't know what point I was trying to make
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>>323768794

Simple things can have light plot elements. Then you have things that try to be deep and meaningful, like the Matrix trilogy, which bogs itself down with a lot of themes and symbolism that ultimately all end up either not panning out that well or fall completely flat.
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>>323763454
>they're not deep enough to convey anything but space interaction and flowcharts

you assume that the virtual space is the art. The computer is the medium. As long as the medium has enough depth to convey the art it suffices.

The computer can easily convey the Mona Lisa within its virtual space. A video game program can do that and more. It's a far less limited medium than visual art
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