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So we all know Bethesda has dumbed down their...
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So we all know Bethesda has dumbed down their games with every installment,

Who then, has stepped in to make games that are rich in content and operate like a pen and paper rpg?
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>>323733717
>le dumbed down meme
Morrowind was unnecessarily complex.

>major skills
>minor skills
>efficient levelling
Just retarded.
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>>323734158
Skyrim was made for filthy casuals like you. You can thank Todd by eating his shit nuggets when the next installment of TES just does away with skill levels all together and forces you to use the same sword the whole game because it's "magical" or some silly shit.
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>>323733717
No one. The market has spoken, and it wants dumbed down press x to win shit. If you want pen and paper style games get used to shitty indies and dust off the old classics, because that genre is virtually dead in modern AAA gaming.
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>>323734158
Just because you're a retard who can't understand how simple skills work, doesnt meant they are complex.

It means you're a fucking full blown retard.

>Use magic with the skills you picked
>Use the weapon with the skills you picked
>Use the armor with the skills you picked

Wow so hard.
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>>323733717
inXile and Obsidian

Morrowind is still shit.
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>>323734158
there were many more options for the type of person you could be, politically in Morrowind. It's a world teeming with rivalries and alliances,with your actions having a real effect.

There were many more dialogue options in Morrowind, which were related to your stats.

The exploration was much more organic,as opposed to the randomized caves and loots of Skyrim.

In terms of general content, possible scenarios, dialogue options(with the different options having an actual effect, instead of just "nice or mean" re wordings of the same thing) the in game books, the newer Bethesda games lacking,
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>>323735248
All Morrowind did is convince me that CRPGs belong on the Infinity engine, or built in a way that emulates Black Isle.
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>they said openmw would we finished by now
>people will try to tell me it will be done this year
>for like the third year running
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>>323735957
>already fully playable and feature complete
>faster than the original engine
OpenCS is the only thing not done, what's your excuse for not switching over
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>>323736808
No support for distant land, some shaders, and MWSE mods.
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>>323736808
Because its not done
https://bugs.openmw.org/projects/openmw/issues?set_filter=1&tracker_id=1
https://bugs.openmw.org/projects/openmw/issues?set_filter=1&tracker_id=2
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>>323737107
It's more done and less buggy than Morrowind was on release, and faster and more stable.
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>>323734369
>>323734887
>defending TES classic leveling system
Really? It's not a matter of it being complex (it wasn't), it was just bad.
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>>323736808
it is not faster than the original engine. I get double the framerate in the actualgame as I do in openmw
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>>323737231
>Morrowind was unnecessarily complex.
>It wasn't complex
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>>323737292
Latest build version is confirmed to be
https://forum.openmw.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3207&start=30
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>>323733717
I really liked Skyrim's world building.
But i think that was about it. Tedious gameplay and terrible combat, and don't even get me started with the bugs
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Man, I tried out Daggerfall the other day. That was super rough.
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>>323737353
I'm not him, he's a retard with shitty opinions.
But he was right on that one, as much as I appreciate the intention they had with that system, in practice it was just flawed and a drag.

Having to keep track of every single skill increase (including the skills you shouldn't even care about) just so you don't level up suboptimally isn't good design.
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who reinstalling here
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>>323737445
Don't forget that people have finally started working on a multiplayer component, and a good one.
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>>323737445
I don't care what it says. Try it yourself. It runs at absolutely half the frames as the actual game. I just tried it.
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>>323738224
Which version did you actually try though, 0.37? The latest development build (0.38) runs three times faster for me.
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>>323733717
nobody.
modders are stepping it up via TES games.
Witcher is an attempt but it emphesises combat and graphics more than anything else
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>>323738358
>Witcher is an attempt but it emphesises combat and graphics more than anything else

>not story and dialogue
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anyone try OpenMW yet?
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>>323738335
the newest
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>>323738161
All the TES fanart makes me wish the game world in tes games was half as cool as it's portrayed in the books. Morrowind was the best of the series in that regard.
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>>323738571
What's the actual version number though? The actual dev source builds aren't the same as the release builds.
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>>323738546
oh.
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>>323734158
>Morrowind was complex.
XD
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>>323738809
Oh it might have been the official release build, not any beta or dev shit.
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>>323738970
Unless you had to compile shit, you're using 0.37
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>>323733717
>>Who then, has stepped in to make games that are rich in content and operate like a pen and paper rpg?

you can't match pen&paper content beause it depends on how good players and dm are at making shit up, people can think up on the spot a way to face a problem the dm never though before and the dm itself can come up with if and buts for what the players want to do

for the operate part i'm glad developers stopped just automating the diceroll for the terrible dnd system (not saying it's obsolete because it would imply there was a time it was good)
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>>323733717
playing underrail right now, its pretty fucking good, played DIV OS before that, was also a lot of fun

i think most of the people that bitch about no good RPGs these days are either casuals who cant handle bad graphics or retards who wont spend the time to look for good indies.

But yeah the days of AAA releases being complex are over, you can think a widening market for that, video games are no longer for nerds and game companies realized that casuals are both easier and more profitable to develop for because they dont care about quality or variety as much.
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>>323734158
>morrowind
>complex
one skill per weapon/magic type/action that strictly never ever interacted with each other, truly the pinnacle of complexity
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>games will never have spellcrafting again
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>>323737575
You set up the controls properly, right? Keeping the default Ultima Underworld-style controls is an easy way to turn yourself off from the game.

There's a lot of other things that can legitimately feel rough, but I feel like most poor first impressions are caused by the default controls.

>>323737231
The Attribute multiplier system was poorly thought out, but it wasn't really a major factor except in Oblivion's later levels since so many enemies had health pools that were multiplied by your level, so sub-optimal leveling could paradoxically make you weaker than you were at level one.

With Morrowind the only thing that could potentially fuck you over is having a very low Endurance, since increasing it later won't make up for all the HP you missed out on. With that one exception leveling felt pretty good overall. Min-maxing didn't count for much since you still got stronger even with the least efficient level ups, and you could level indefinitely to eventually max out your attributes at your leisure. Nobody would seriously suggest avoiding using the primary weapon of your class, because the potentially more efficient levels are never going to catch up to the massive head start and quicker advancement rate of a character that uses the skills they're good at.
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>>323737698
>Having to keep track of every single skill increase (including the skills you shouldn't even care about)
Nah that's due to you being retarded. I only keep track of the skills I use. Why would you worry about skills you don't even use? I didn't even bother with alchemy and I powered through the game perfectly fine
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>>323740203
>you could level indefinitely to eventually max out your attributes at your leisure
not really, you could level up until you maxed all major and minor skills and that's it

eg. a redguard with long blade as major skills would level up less times than a breton with combat skills in major
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>>323740626
>Why would you worry about skills you don't even use?
because you don't know how level up multipliers work
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>>323740203
Yeah, I changed the controls around after I realized you could. Even then, changing the controls only makes it slightly less rough, it's still SUPER rough.
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>>323740674
You can lower your skills through jail time or magic effects. Permanently lowered skills can be leveled up again naturally and temporarily lowered skills are candidates for training. There's no practical level cap.
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>>323740808
>level up multipliers
please explain
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>>323733717

Obsidian and Larian are the only 2 I know of
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>>323735248
>which were related to your stats
When did this happen? I've never seen that, although I've never gotten very far in the game.
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>>323740906
If you want the best possible attribute increase per level you need to use skills governed by those attributes. For this purpose it does not matter what skills your class uses - all skills contribute to the attribute multipliers.

For this reason, the most efficient level involves tracking your skills to make sure you use the proper amount per attribute, and avoid leveling up too many skills so you don't waste their multipliers, as they will not carry over to the next level.

Again, this is just for the most efficient level possible. You can use this to be stronger at level 10 than you would be otherwise. Or you could pay it no mind, just use the skills your class and race are best suited for, and be level 20 and even stronger by the time you would have spreadsheeted your way to level 10.
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>>323740906
when you level up you have 3 "tokens" to improve stats

stats can have a multiplier (eg. +3 for a token instead of +1) depending of which skills you trained since last level up

if you level up long blades (strenght) 10 times when you level up putting a token in strenght will raise it (times leveled / 2) so 5

howevere since if you level a skill 10 times you level up you can't have three +5s, except misc skills (that don't matter for level up) are counted for that so if you level short blades (agility, misc skill) 10 times, alchemy (int, misc skill) 10 times and long blades (strenght, major/minor skill so you level up)10 times you can get +5 str +5 agi +5int

due to this minmaxing requires you to have the lowest starting skill values as possible at the start (10 major/minor skill is a level, if you have lower starting scores you can level more times)

luck has no related skill so it's always +1 making even more levels necessary to have legit all 100s in stats
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>>323738161
Morrowind feels like it doesn't take part in the same fucking galaxy as its sequels.

It was truly amazing, that was a cool world.
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>>323740203
I'm not saying that Morrowind is unplayable with that system, the game isn't that hard that you'll be unable to complete it with a gimped character (except when you get to the Bloodmoon werewolves, what the fuck man).

But it's a shitty system because it's a total failure at what it tried to do, it wanted to make it so that you level up organically according to the skills you use most, and those should be the ones that are relevant to your class, so your stat increases reflect your choice in class, however, it's a failure because a warrior will end up having worse stats than a guy that has warrior skills as misc and trains them the necessary amount every level to get the +5 increase.

It's garbage, and in Oblivion it was straight up disgusting since it made the game unplayable with the level scaling.
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>>323742131
>Morrowind feels like it doesn't take part in the same fucking galaxy as its sequels.
morrowind is literally the africa of tamriel of course it looks nothing like the rest of its world
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>>323742242
>except when you get to the Bloodmoon werewolves

did you play it with morrowind code patch? because it makes unarmed damage scale with strenght and it's indeed bullshit for werewolves
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Elder Scrolls: [s]Online[/s]
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>>323742552
All we can do now is wait for development tools to become so powerful and easy to use that indie games will get in the level of Morrowind while AAAs just keep getting worse and worse.
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>>323742510
Now that you say it it's probable.
I just levitated and killed them from above so I didn't think much about it but I should've guessed something was odd.
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>>323742242
I agree with you there. The attribute multiplier system is ass-backwards and even Morrowind's very light level scaling had some unfortunate interactions with it, albeit alleviated by how incredibly strong you can become in the later levels.

I just think it's a lot better when you don't pay it any mind, as min-maxing in a game that doesn't require it is a surefire way to suck the fun out of your play. It only negatively impacts the game when you let yourself become compelled to optimize it.

I'm the kind of player who finds it really hard not to min-max and try to play every odd in my favor, so it definitely took some self control and I'd describe it as a major mechanical flaw, but ultimately learning to just ignore it made the game far more enjoyable, and leveling/customizing my characters was still a very fun process.
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>>323742667
Is failing at spoilers a meme or something?
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>>323742510
Just to be clear, that's only an option in the code patch, and it's one of the tweaking options rather than a bugfix one. Anybody reading this who might be considering playing the game for the first time should still never consider not using the code patch for the essential bugfixes it provides. If you want to be totally safe just enable the bug fixing options and make sure to read each option's description carefully to be sure you want it.
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I've just started playing Morrowind recently (and enjoying it) and am trying to follow the conversation on the leveling system.

When I first leveled up, I saw the multipliers next to the attributes and realized that they were dictated by the skills I had leveled. I realized that, if I wanted to get a good multiplier in endurance, I would want to get a few levels in spears.

Misc skills are more useful in the sense that they need to be leveled to get attribute multipliers and I should also be careful about leveling certain skills too much because I want to "save" the multipliers they provide. Have I basically got the right idea?
>>
me
hopefully

i've been working so hard to create the next morrowind, there's hardly been a day that's gone by that i haven't been writing for it. it's almost playable as a tabletop game and after that comes game dev stepped into overdrive

there is nothing more i want than for rpg fans to love the gameplay and discuss the lore in as much detail as morrowind fans have
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>>323743560
Yeah.
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>>323743560
Don't min-max, it's not worth it.
Efficient leveling means that for every level up you'll have to check trainers and level up skills that you don't care about, it's just annoying.

If you still want to do it, to get a +5 stat increase you need 10 skill increases in skills that are governed by that attribute, so if you want to get two +5 increases you'll need to calculate which misc skills you need to increase on top of your major/minor ones.

Also, if you have all the skills governed by the same attribute as major/minor you'll never be able to do efficient leveling with a +5 on that stat.

Just download Galsiah's leveling mod
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>>323743560
>I've just started playing Morrowind recently (and enjoying it) and am trying to follow the conversation on the leveling system.
don't, you'll eventually get how the system works and unconsciously start to hamper your experience for minmaxing
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>>323743956
>>323744418
I'm not worried about min/maxing, I just want to have a fair understand of the game mechanics. I'm definitely not the kind of person who tries to do every little thing perfectly in my RPGs.
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>>323733717
Underrail
Pillars of Eternity
Sunless Sea
Mount and Blade
Avernum

shit still exists, you just have to know where to look
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>>323743560
Pretty much.. If you're trying to level efficiently then keep in mind which three attributes you want to level up first. Some people go for 5/5/5 for three primary attributes or 5/5/1 for two and Luck. 5/5/1 is a bit easier to deal with since you only need to focus on 20 skill ups per level, and most classes just have two main attributes they want to focus on anyway.

I strongly, strongly recommend not bothering with this. You'll get through the game just fine by playing normally. If you absolutely cannot help yourself then consider taking >>323743956 advice and using a smooth leveling mod. But if you insist on min-maxing with the vanilla leveling system then here's all the information you could possibly need:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Level#Efficient_Leveling
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>>323744678
One question, is luck very useful compared to the other attributes?
>>
Hi /v/
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>>323744613
the gist of the system is that if you raise skills tied to a certain attribute you'll get more bonus points on that attribute on level up

if you level up raising mostly axes/hammers you'll get more strenght, if you raise alchemy you'll get more int

the problem all people are arguing about is that you get better gains if you level up skills in a counter intuitive way (which doesn't matter because tes games have never been about the challenge and morrowind is the one that allows you to break the game the most)
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>>323744661

>Sunless Sea

Good to see someone repping this game. Definitely one of the unsung masterpieces of 2015.
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>>323744797
Luck is exactly what it sounds like. It's worse than every stat at everything but has a very wide variety of effects. In terms of game mechanics, most of the time the Luck attribute applies to every calculation at 1/10th the rate of the primary attribute or skill involved in the calculation.

Basically, if you've got a specialized character who is struggling to think of a third attribute to focus on being nearly as helpful as your first two, then go ahead and take Luck since it will still make you even better at whatever you're specializing in.
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>>323734158
>Morrowind was unnecessarily complex
How did we come to a stage where people said things like this?
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>>323744797
>>323745260
>>
>>323735957
This might make you even more hopeful then.
Openmw morrowind multiplayer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq6bAEQ0fyg
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>>323738161
The game doesn't actually look as good as the fanart. I'd like to see Morrowind remade and not just a carbon copy of the original.
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>>323745387
>have a million gold
>offer to give it to him
>he doesn't believe me and attacks anyway
Seriously, fuck every last Bosmer to death.
>>
The leveling system of Morrowind is pretty awful honestly but they never should have gotten rid of attributes, major/minor skills, specializations or permanent birth signs.

Turning that into Health/Magic/Stamina and a perk is a joke.
>>
>tfw openmw is 2 bugs away from 0.38
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>>323734158
>I'm too retarded to play a simple rpg

Spare me
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>>323740906
Did you never play Morrowind? World level scaling wasn't even that much of a problem in Morrowind. Optimally leveling was worse in the more recent ES games
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>>323734842
I laughed way fucking harder at this than I should have
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>>323745713
>devs getting offrail with unrelated shit when the main project is barely complete
yeah that really put my hopes up
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>>323745713
Honestly though, unless like a serious roleplay community forms, it'll just be the same as Fallout Online with a bunch Russians stacking all of the interesting gear and PK'ing.
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>>323747797
it's open source, it's just some dude working on it. I don't think it's the actual devs.
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>>323742326
You retarded? Morrowind is the equivalent of East Asia and Mesoamerica. Literally nothing resembling Africa in landscape or culture.
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>>323748571
probably he wanted to make a "dunmers are niggers of tes lmao xD"
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>>323746837
I wouldn't call it awful. Initially unintuitive, but you could still get pretty organic character growth and enjoy the game. Oblivion, OTOH...
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>>323748571
>Morrowind
>Meosamerican
Their culture is so fucking Hebrew it hurts.
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>>323740203
Do you have any tips for magic based builds?
I don't want to break the game with 3X spell points or allowing magic items repair.
I don't really like rellying on my warhammer to kill things when I am supposed to kill them with MAGIC.
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>>323749036
>not lizards, cats or orcs

Either one can take the place as niggers of TES, but orcs can smith fancy shit and female argonians can be qt, at least.
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>>323749321
Train conjuration.
Reflects will fuck your weak mage ass if you use destruction.
You can summon as many creatures as spells you have (doesn't matter if they summon the same creature) and there are trainers that teach you how to summon high level daedra like Golden Saints.
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>>323749269
It's a mix of japanese, maya/Aztec and Mesopotamia. there is no one culture that dominates but I would say the japanese influences are most obvious.
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>not modding the game so that you get x5 points for every attribute except luck when leveling
feels good to be able to play the character the way it was built to be played and not have to worry about autistically grinding skills or avoiding using skills just to level properly
>>
>Playing as an Altmer
>With a sign of the apprentice

Everything burns
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>>323749607
I meant tips for daggerfall, sorry
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>>323734158
git gud xbox homo
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>>323749613
The eastern influences are quite literally eastern - as in they're from Akavir. The Mesoamerican stuff isn't evident at all outside of the architecture of Vivec; everything else is either distinctly western or just pure fantasy. That being said, the plot and lore is really fucking Hebrew. Fundamentalist tribals look to ancient prophecies for the second coming of their Messiah figure, who they believe will cast out their Roman oppressors, restore their holy law, and root out corruption and idolatry from their religion.

Their history consists of skirmishes and wars with Babylonian look-alikes, who vehemently opposed the Dunmeri religion and literally tried to make a false god. Before that, they underwent a tremendous exodus before arriving in Morrowind.
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>>323749321
3x is by no means game-breaking. I'd consider 2x to be the bare minimum for a class that intends to make frequent use of magic. Spells can get very expensive in Daggerfall, especially at the beginning when your magic skills are so low.

The best tip I can give is to go to the Mages Guild as soon as you can. You get access to the spell maker instantly upon membership so you can make some decent cheap spells in various schools.

When creating spells, pay attention to the ranges of values. The cost of the spell is based on the power of its effects, but the "power" is based on the average of the range and rounded down. This means that a range of 1-2 costs exactly the same as a range of 1-1, despite being 50% more effective on average. The same applies to 6-7 vs. 6-6, and other such combinations that result in a decimal average.

After level 5 or so you pretty much always want to only make spells with level-scaled parameters instead of base parameters. So for most spells the optimal range will be "1-2 + (x)-(x+1) per level" where x is the highest you can get it while still having a manageable casting cost.

>>323749607
He's asking about Daggerfall, which doesn't have conjuration or summoning.
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>>323733717
>operate like a pen and paper rpg?
a bunch of indie games are trying
>>323734158
kek
>>323735561
kek
>>323737231
i like it, it makes sense instead of other games where you smack stuff with an axe till you level up then dump all your points into magic or something silly
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does anyone not just immediately go get the boots of blinding speed when they start a character in this game?
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argonian maids are for ________
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Not nearly enough Underrail being mentioned in this thread.

It's kind of unfortunate that the game released a week before christmas with a name so close to Undertale, because more people need to play this shit.
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>>323751351
Classic TES leveling is a cool concept, but it got fucked up by tying attribute increases to skill increases. It was the worst in Oblivion, where you would be blatantly underpowered unless you leveled up your skills in a way that maximized your attribute gains.
>>
>>323751761
I don't know if tying them to attributes alone was the problem. They just fucked up with the specific method, which encouraged the opposite of role-playing by purposely making characters bad at their roles.

Personally, I'd go even further and entirely tie attribute gain to skill gain. There wouldn't even be a level up screen - your character just naturally becomes better at whatever they do, rather than suddenly gaining muscle mass by haggling really well. My favorite mods for Morrowind and Oblivion were ones that did exactly that.
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>>323752363
Well yeah, you're right. The problem wasn't tying the two together, it was locking you out of potential attribute gains because you didn't optimally level your skills. If you just gained all of the attribute points you earned instead of being forced to pick one attribute and sacrifice points earned in the rest it would be fine.
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>>323752552
Yep. I think a fair compromise that would still allow choosing attributes on level up would be to simply get rid of the multipliers and make them actual bonuses. "Your attributes will rise this much, and here's 3 extra points to spend as you please."

Or we can be Bethesda and just remove attributes entirely. That fixes it, too, I guess.
>>
I don't know if I can wait a year for D:OS 2 but it's not like there are any other decent fantasy RPGs to fill the time.
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>>323753205
http://store.steampowered.com/app/296570/
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>>323753404
Is it gud?
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>>323734715
You know anything about the next Vampire The Masquerade game coming out? I use to like the books a lot but only played Redemption a bit. There was suppose to be an MMO so it was stuck in limbo but the IP got traded recently, a new game sounds promising.
Just couldn't get into the TV show while it was on don't know why.
>>
How's TES Online? I'd imagine it's super shitty, but is it at least enjoyably shitty?
>>
>>323754971
It's the best massively multiplayer Elder Scrolls game of all time.
>>
>>323756964
Th-thanks?
>>
>>323750404
Wait, that actually makes sense.

Time to reboot up Morrowind.
>>
>>323757167
No problem. It's also the third best multiplayer Elder Scrolls game of all time, if that helps any.
>>
>>323733717
Age of Decadence
>>
>>323747275
Morrowind was very static, so not having to be very stringent on the multipliers can be forgiven.

Oblivion, however, had some really bad levels of scaling, which definitely demanded a level of power gaming hard, else you had a character that became useless by level 20. Didn't help taht a fight could also drag on for minutes.

At least I found SK to handle the scaling more optimally than in OB, even if the leveling system was gutted. However, if Bethesda really wanted to make the system much different, they really should have put more thought into perks to really make characters stand out from each other.
>>
>>323734842
Holy shit is this in the base game or from a mod?
>>
>>323754971
Gameplay is alright for an MMO. I like the "class" system. People generally consider PvP is the best part of the game. Story is bring as expected and side quests are even more boring than Skyrim, however full voice acting is nice.
>>
>>323751464
Having sex in the missionary position for the purpose of reproduction and raising a family.
>>
>>323757752
It's a mod that lets you write your own journal entries.
>>
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>>323738695
Know what would have been great? Fuzzy caterpillar mounts for the orsimer.
>>
morrowind was borderline unplayable
>>
>>323758040
Not if you aren't terrible.
>>
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>>323733717
>Bethesda buys Arkane studios the company that made Dark Messiah.
>Skyrim has a shitty combat system instead of Dark messiahs.
>>
>>323738519
It doesn't let you make your own character, though.
>>
>>323758040
No, you're thinking of Daggerfall. Thankfully even that game is quite playable nowadays thanks to the dozens of patches and fan-made fixes.
>>
>>
>>323747982
It's still a legitimate criticism. TES games are single-player, so working on multiplayer before the single player is entirely done is misguided.
>>
>>323749607
Why do so many games seem to hate blaster mages?
>>
>>323749731
Especially you, if even a low-level fireball gets anywhere near you.
>>
>>323759535

I was actually referring to my character exploding constantly.

But I love that extra magicka too much, and I'll never play as a dirty Breton.
>>
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>>323749607
>Conjuration
My nigga, Conji's best magic
>>323759631
>Breton
>Dirty
>>
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>>323733717
>Who then, has stepped in to make games that are rich in content and operate like a pen and paper rpg?
The game and modding community, because developers are shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3OtvQ64Bto
>>
>>323759221
Not really. What some random guy decides to try to do with the source code available to all of us is irrelevant to what the actual developers are doing. Sure, you can say it's misguided but it makes zero sense to say it affects your hopes for OpenMW.
>>
>trying to level enchanting
>trying to level alchemy
this is true suffering
>>
>>323745387
are there any recommended reskins/mods for morrowind that allow for characters to NOT look like bethesda-tier ass?
>>
>>323759745
I can see how some elves might be racist toward Bretons. They might see them as kind of a secret shame, half-breed mongrels that nobody wants. Of course that's not true; Bretons are awesome and will not only shrug off elven fireballs, but absorb the magicka from them to throw their own fireballs back at the elves, who will suffer greatly because of their weakness to magic.
>>
>>323733717
Open world RPGs aren't yet economically viable products for small companies to develop, you'll have to wait a decade at least.
>>
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>>323760030
>jumping up and down the stairs at Balmora to level acrobatics
>>
>>323734842
>tfw i do this in Skyrim
how autistic am i
>>
>>323761989
Making your own stories is pretty much what Bethesda games are made for, and indeed what the RPG genre originated as. Considering that, I'd say you're extremely autistic.
>>
>>323761989
if your playing skyrim
very
>>
>>323761989
Maxmimaustim, but it's the only way to have fun so keep at it.
>>
>>323734158
>Morrowind was unnecessarily complex.
Oh jesus christ, it's only been a couple weeks but 2016 can already just fuck right off.
>>
so i always see people say morrowind has good dungeons, I'm about 30 hours in now and I'm wondering when the good dungeons start showing up? caves/egg mines are boring as fuck, dwemer ruins seemed cool because of the first dungeon but since then they have all been short and boring since then, ancestral tombs are boring too

oblivion/skyrims dungeons weren't great but so far they were better than these are
>>
>>323763204
Morrowind's good dungeons are few and far between. The Daedric shrines are pretty great, but for the most part they're short and linear. The thing that makes Morrowind's dungeons stand out is the amount of hand-placed items and enemies compared to the later games. But the layouts themselves aren't quite as varied and there aren't much in the way of traps and puzzles. One thing I do very much like about them is how they feel more like real places that don't just exist to be raided by the player.

If you saw that image comparing the MW/OB/SK dungeon, know that it was cherry picked to all hell and included that first Dwemer ruin as an example of the typical Morrowind dungeon.
>>
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>>323740203
Daggerfall is the only TES with a decent leveling system. It simply let you role play. And you don't have to level skills that aren't even in your class.
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