>>323680360 There's a good official civ 4 mod, it's about north vs south. Basically turns the game into panzer general colonial. North Vs South was great but it's a shit to work these days. Also human controlled canons were OP, you could kill the enemy army most times especially if there was a bridge.
>>323684857 Do the southerns have any good battle songs? It's hard to find to find rallying songs, bugle calls and similar that are actually from the war. Most seem to be well before and be more "federation" songs or historical rewrites. I refuse to beluieve anyone with that many minstrels couldn't have a good ditty beyond what OP posted
>>323686654 I would have thought with all the minstrels and such that the south would have had good songs, but it sounds like they outsourced their music to negroes just like their farm work. What do the southerners claim for culture? Bespoke whips?
>>323687526 No it would have to be like WW2 games with southerners instead of nazis. the southerners are depicted as evil slaver baby rapist from hell in league with the devil, and the honourable northerners are liberating the country from their tyranny, and are all multiracial and gay
>>323690085 >south are 'bad guys' Their economic principles were shot to hell and they couldn't continue to operate the way they were. They were just petulant and wanted more say in matters of the union than they had any right to. Same as today. "We might be one of 50 states, but fuck you lets us run the place." And there's multiple states that scream this shit.
>sophisticated, progressive gentlemen backed by the incredible might of the northern industrial complex were held off for years by a bunch of backwards, under-equipped, uneducated hillbilly fucks >over a hundred years later you lot still bring it up like you won some incredible victory It took longer for you rejects to take out the fucking natives.
I'm glad we were rid of you incompetent shiteaters when you "won" the War of American Aggression.
>>323680360 >Lee's stance on slavery was that it would end when God ended it >Because of this decided to fight for his state, rather than the North or the South >Was strict, but cared for his men >Decided to surrender for the sake of his men, instead of sending them into the mountains to fight guerrilla style >Was well respected by both the North and the South as a hero because of this >Lived the rest of his life with the shame of having his citizenship revoked Poor Lee
Every song from the time period has two versions, Union and Confederate. No idea which were actually made during the war vs postwar. There's also songs that are more focused on specific units (Irish and German brigades) so you can probably find some southern specific unit.
Hell there's even a Union version of dixie, which is straight up hilarious, but not as crazy as "good ol' rebel," which is a postwar song.
>>323691641 >Every song from the time period has two versions, Union and Confederate They're all old immigrant songs anyhow. I was hoping that at least someone had something new instead of re-writing folk songs about how the English are shit. The Americans seem to have a distinct lack of creativity.
.>sophisticated, progressive gentlemen backed by the incredible might of the northern industrial complex >led by total retards until the late war when Grant and Sherman go nuts
>a bunch of backwards, under-equipped, uneducated hillbilly fucks >led by the best leaders the North produced >fighting defensively the entire time
This is a time period where technology couldn't make up for poor leadership. Today you could be lead by a complete dolt and still carpet bomb your enemies to oblivion because they just have rifles and no AA technology.
>went to see gods and generals when I was a kid because a reenactor friend was in it >thought it was awesome >apaprently everyone else thought it sucked was it just because I was 14 and it had shit exploding for 4 hours?
Except I've never heard of "American Aggression," because that is fucking retarded since both sides are, in full, the "United States of America" and the "Confederate States of America." That would be like having a war between East and West Germany and calling it the "War of German Aggression." It literally tells you nothing, and it is doubtful that anyone who actually participated in the war would call it as such.
>>323694192 Are you fucking retarded? Did you even read the post tyat i replied to? He implied that the Americans didnt even win the revolution. And what part of my post did i say that I single handedly won and fought in the revolution? Are you illiterate?
>>323694369 >He implied that the Americans didnt even win the revolution. You didn't. We let you win. We were kings of the fucking seas m8, and you think we cared about some piddly, backwards colonies out in bumfuck nowhere?
>abloo-bloo, I dun wanna pay taxes, ah'm a gonna secede Funny, considering nowadays Americans are taxed out the ass for everything.
>>323694801 I fucking hate all this bullshit in the uk about how police are supposed to be friendly and community figures, fuck that, just let them catch criminals, give them the tools they need to fuck up degenerates
>We were kings of the fucking seas m8 >french navy managed to blockade the colonies Jokes aside, a navy's reach is only as good as it's ports, and the loss of colonies = loss of ports.
>some piddly Colonies that were many magnitudes greater in size than the home country, providing loads of raw resources without having to trade with another country. >backwards There wasn't really that much of a technological gap, it was more of an industrial gap, which closed rather quickly after the war. >bumfuck nowhere? Maybe relative to the European stage, but the British would come back to further colonize the area (Canada) because of the raw resource potential.
Face it, if Britain retained control of the colonies it would be way better off today than it is now. "Letting the colonists win" is probably the dumbest thing you could have ever done.
>>323695721 i know, right. how the fuck there is not a huge grand strategy game where you can. >use european help >use mexican empire >use indians against union >use blacks against confederacy (which they actually did) >>323695913 talk to you yourself, im from turkey and i started this thread. i have huge boner for american civil war.
>>323695913 >first war with trains for logistics >first war with aerial reconnaisance >first war with trench warfare >first war where rifled guns were the primary weapon >first war with automatic weapons >first war with ironclad ships sure is boring
>there will never be a ACW game were you play as a soldier under the command of William Quantrill >you'll never burst out of the woods in the middle of the night screaming like a fucking banshee into a camp of Union soldiers and slaughter them all like the fucking dogs they were
>>323692479 >best leaders the north ever produced Grant and sherman were incredibly flawed. One was a drunkard and the other a raging bipolar nutjob. Only by each one keeping the other in check did the get results.
>>323694228 It could have worked when the fanbase wasn't nearly all 12 year old kids spoiled by tons of TACTICOOL. There's no way they would be shooting themselves in the foot by releasing something like that now
>>323697158 Except it was over slavery? I never contested that. South Carolina rebelled and sought sovereignty due to the election of lincoln. lincoln had no designs to ban slavery in the southern states - however he refused future states to allow slavery if they joined the union. The southern states saw the future of the US being a majority non-slave institution and SC rebelled due to it. It was always about slaves - but more importantly the economic effects on a low-pop agrarian based industry without a slave work-force.
Granted America enjoys jumping into wars for no reason, but the case for delay in the first world war was pretty solid, since it was just a huge clusterfuck set off by two murders. America had no real interests at stake, and could make money by just selling supplies to the belligerent parties. It wasn't until Lusitania and the Mexican telegrams that America had sufficient Casus belli to actually do anything.
>>323698230 The south would Never free their slaves though. Their entire economy and what little industry they had was built and powered by predominately slave labor. That is why so many southern states joined South Carolina when they acted out. And the option of "South Keeps Slaves but Stay in the Union" was right out when SC attacked Fort Sumpter. It was an act of a state attacking an unprovoked federal stronghold. That is an open act of war and not something lincoln could just back down from.
>>323698147 So much to love, the cavaliers with all the money and shitty leadership, the first battles of the war where parliamentary forces got completely BTFO before the new army was formed. The first basis for modern armies, the first universal army uniforms. the insanely cool cavalier uniform.
>>323685390 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLMU90Aa2Oo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ot7amDyqbY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0i9XMyTw-o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3d4SBVjgEs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mvD6q0XUJI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC3MkmecSJ0 here are my personal favorite confederate songs >>323686906 this
>>323698230 This is true but Lincoln was on the abolition bandwagon present at the time and was pushing for federal action to get rid of slavery. The south didn't want to give up their free labor, and staying in the union would've meant just that.
>>323698476 >and not something lincoln could just back down from. You dumb nigger, Lincoln provoked the attack on Fort Sumter on purpose, by keeping Northern forces occupying Southern soil despite polite requests from the South Carolina government asking them to vacate.
>>323698476 The north did just want to completely destroy the entirety of the south's economy, hell they still have a shit economy to this day compared to the north. I think the south's rebellion was justified, in that I would have done the same thing in their situation.
>>323698634 Half right. ANyone who claims that slaves were not the heart of the issue and the base cause of the war is deluded. However it was considered widespread fact amongst northerners and southerners that slaves were less intelligent and merely aped at being civilized people when not enslaved. However the view was also that they were men and, no matter how inferior deserved freedom. That said the war wasn't sparked over that. It was all economics and the south fearing a future non-slave majority in representation in the union - which would have spelled abolishment within 20-30 years. So at the end of the day it was all about slaves.
>>323698947 >ANyone who claims that slaves were not the heart of the issue and the base cause of the war is deluded. Except it wasn't. Slavery was the cause of secession, not the cause of war. Neither side cared enough about niggers to die over them.
>>323698717 >polite requests jesus fucking christ do you into history at all? South Carolina already ceded from the union at this point. Sumpter was a federal installation and as such union property. The commanding general understood this and dutifully refused to vacate.iirc the commander was from kentucky and technically neutral. He simply did his fucking job an refused to back down without orders.
>>323698741 I would have as well. I'm actually a southerner by birth and largely support what happened during the war. I just dislike people spouting bullshit like they never read a history book like this cunt >>323698717
>>323698848 And yet the war was sparked because of the slave issue and the south never would agree to letting go of their slaves.
They broke free from the union even though lincoln said off the bat he wouldn't ban their slaves. It was because of his policies on future states that made them leave. They saw that eventually there would be a vast majority of non-slave states in the union and that then it would just be a matter of time before a movement to abolish the institution would get passed. Slavery was still the crux of the war
>>323699280 >South Carolina requests that Fort Sumter be vacated, because foreign agents were occupying what they had themselves deemed a sovereign nation >Lincoln knows he can't use military force to make the South rejoin the union without appearing as a warmonger >tells South Carolina government that he is going to resupply Sumter and dares them to do something about it >Lincoln sends ships INTO THE TERRITORY OF A FOREIGN NATION, WITHOUT CONSENT OF THAT NATION >foreign nation fires upon invading forces Go ahead and deny anything I've just stated.
Your argument is the same as if Germany had built a fucking base in the U.S. during WW2, then it would've been wrong for the U.S. to attack that base.
>>323700314 >SC steps up and says "we're a nation now - fuck you guys!" >Federal troops ALREADY IN THE STATE fall back to a defensive fort >Said fort is still Federal Property let me ask you, if you were in the shoes of lincoln - would you just say "oh shit these niggers are serious I need to back down!"? No. You would have you men stand their ground. It's like a petulant child whining and you caving in as a parent.
>>323700707 Lincoln had the Union Soldiers stand their ground because Congress and the people supported the South leaving the Union. Lincoln and a small minority wanted them to stay and he knew if he ordered he troops to hold the fort then the Norh would rally behind him after the Confederates attacked it.
>>323700950 Well it was more over economics than anything really - primarily the southern economic backbone being mired and hand-in-hand with slave labor. It wasn't over the northerners hating the institution of slaver - but more so over the effects it had on the economic success the south had as an agrarian industry. Still all about them slaves tho. Also the northerners viewed slavery as being abolished "eventually". and they didn't want more blacks running around stinking up the place.
>>323700707 >let me ask you, if you were in the shoes of lincoln - would you just say "oh shit these niggers are serious I need to back down!"? No. You would have you men stand their ground. It's like a petulant child whining and you caving in as a parent. You've misrepresented the argument. It doesn't matter whether Lincoln was right or wrong to do what he did. My point is that he still knowingly and purposefully started the war.
Your claim that Sumter was "unprovoked" is bullshit, because it was Lincoln's intent to provoke the South.
>>323701095 Possibly, at this point we are getting into intent though. You could spout all day that he was provoking things - which is possible, sure. I could counter that he was afraid that giving in would generate the view of him as weak, especially early on as a first term president. And while congress might have been shifting it's feet on he matter, the northern populace as a whole were downright pissed over SC's actions, so he clearly had public support from the northern electorate in his actions.
But as far as intent goes that's up for debate I suppose. I still maintain his actions were the logical course though for anyone in his shoes regardless of intent
To put it into terms you can understand, suppose someone stepped into the basement you live in and declared it now belonged to them. When you run into the bathroom to hide they declare your refusal to leave what is now their basement leaves them no choice but to use force to make you leave the bathroom.
>>323701515 No. The people were for he most part on board with the South leaving the Union. They only got mad when SC attacked Sumter because Lincoln refused to remove the Union soldiers. Lincoln was part of the minority that wanted unity. Congress and the people wanted the South to go. Lincoln provoked SC to attack Sumter because he knew the people would get angry and want to fight for unity.
>>323701881 >you decide to get married to your neighbor, but you both keep your own houses and properties >she keeps her dog in you yard >you get a divorce >"Get your dog out of my yard." >"Nah, when I left it there it was still our yard, so I don't have to move it." brb, getting my shotgun
>"the war was fought over slavery" >people in the North fought and died to free niggers that they didn't even like >people in the South fought and died for the right to keep niggers that they valued much less than their own lives This does not logically follow.
>>323703662 Why own a nigger that you have to buy, clothe, feed, give medicine, etc, when you can own a factory and have niggers beg you for a job while they clothe, feed, house, medicate themselves? If one of your owned niggers dies you lose you investment, if one of your free niggers dies there's 3 others looking for his job. Capitalism 101, Slaves are a shit investment.
>>323681991 >i know victoria ii has "a house divided" event but i don't know how detailed it is It's very good. It actually felt like the most deep Civil War simulations I've ever played; nothing else I can think of tries to get at the whole picture, instead of just economy/military stuff treated in a vacuum.
Even better if you start before House Divided's recommended start. That way, you see how your actions cause the war (and you might be able to prevent it altogether, but it's hard).
OP, this is what I'd recommend. I've played a lot of Civil War games, and Vicky 2 gets it best.
>>323703156 The north fought to keep the country unified. The south was going to leave because new terrirtories were being admitted that were anti-slavery and they saw the writing on the wall, that they would soon be outnumbered in the legislature and slavery would soon be outlawed. Rather than allow that to happen, they seceded. Abe Lincoln wasn't having any of that secession bullshit and stomped them the fuck out.
Why was the North fighting? Because they didn't want to lose land and resources, yes, but also because Lincoln knew that there will still many foreign stakes on North American territory and that neither country would survive if they were to remain divided. Therefore, Lincoln had the North fight to restore the union.
Why was the South fighting? I assure both of you, it was not because of slavery. Southerners had no intent of going to war when they seceded, so it's stupid to claim that they went to war to defend their right to own slaves. If they knew that the issue of slavery would lead to conflict either way, it would've been smarter to stage an open rebellion and overthrow the U.S. government. Southerners fought because saw the North as an invading force that was attacking their homeland, and they had no choice but to attempt to drive them out.
If it makes you feel better, you can claim that it was "over slavery" or "over economics" or "over states' rights" and say that it makes no difference either way, but you're over-simplifying the conflict.
>>323703156 Slavery was a root issue, but the war was not fought to free slaves. Let's put it that way. The south was scared of being outnumbered in the government by free states and feared abolition as the economy was primarily based around slavery, the war was also fueled on both sides by "fire breathers" in the south preaching radical politics and likewise some from the north, see John Browns raid further stoking fears of slave revolts and abolition. South Carolina had threatened to succeed once before in 1838 nullification crisis over something else, the north and the south were very different in many ways, slavery being one of the main ones but not the only
No, anon. It'd be a better experience playing as a Southerner. It'd be like Halo Reach. You play as a small band of warriors killing legions of enemies, until their hungry flesh has consumed all of your ammo, and their rib cages have entrapped the last of your bayonets. One by one, your compatriots fall, but you must fight on, Johnny Reb, faw the glawry of Dixeh.
I love this meme! Do you have any more? The south should've invested more in Liberia. The communists wouldn't have been able to play racial tensions off the American public and create the shithole we have today. We could be white and strong and perfect like we were always meant to be.
>>323695721 >this threads theme >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N__4oE0Afs There's a mod for Empire that adds in a Civil War campaign.
Fall of the Samurai is technically Civil War period, but the game is arcadey beyond anything and doesn't fit well with the theme that the warfare in that time period was so extremely brutal compared to war just a few decades prior.
The mod makes the battles extremely phyrric and bloody, which is how the battles should be. Most of the battles during the War were only won by a few thousand people, and when there's 20,000 men dead in one battle, that's unreal.
Constitutionally, they are. There is no law that gives the federal government the right to quell secession by force. Abe Lincoln was a war criminal.
>The only reason the southern states seceded was to protect the slave economy.
Because they depended on it. The sudden ending of that economy led to massive economic collapse and the loss of thousands of lives, both free and enslaved. The right thing to do would have been a gradual shift from the slave economy to a more ethical one, but the Union attempted to force it because the industrialized north would not have been as harmed by it. It was clearly economic manipulation.
>>323707983 >vietnam war game >play as the bad guys just because they're american >play as the losers just because they're american >don't get to rape and burn villagers alive like what actually happened what the fuck?
>>323708763 >it wasnt the elected chancellor by the german people who told the mudslimes to flood Europe while disregarding EU law in accordance to the Dublin regulations while threatening border nations like Spain and Greece with sanctions if they dont let them in >it was the americans fault wew lad, you should become a politician
>>323707327 I will agree to disagree. I personally think that there is a distinction between "the war is because of secession" and "the secession is because of slavery" that makes "the war is because of slavery" an illegitimate claim, and obviously you believe otherwise.
>>323703662 If the South successfully split then the potential for a domino effect would be there where the North would keep splitting smaller and smaller because states saw themselves more as individual states and not parts of the United States.
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