>There must always be a Darth Traya
What did she mean by this?
>you will want to bring her along, being a powerful consular
unless you're doing a "fun" build, you're an unstoppable killing machine by the time you leave first planet after Telos.
? That's the best part of KOTOR2. Provided you've built enough influence with her you learn quite early on that a confrontation between you and Kreia is inevitable. She remains your master, trying to make you see things her way, she admires you, and even as you plunge your lightsaber in her she is thrilled to see you succeed. A remarkably refreshing concept for a character vs final boss interaction.
I will always believe that was a terrible name choice.
>What did she mean by this?
at some point when you talk to her about Atris (in the Hawk i think) she says Atris walks the same path she did. You can get that convo right after leaving Telos iirc.
then at the end you talk to her about Atris again and that's when she says "There must always be a Darth Traya"
so my hypothesis is that there was to be a longer, more fleshed out Atris story arc where what Kreia means is better explained, but it was scrapped like so much of the content of the game.
Other than that idk, maybe i'm wrong
>so my hypothesis is that there was to be a longer, more fleshed out Atris story arc where what Kreia means is better explained, but it was scrapped like so much of the content of the game.
The original plan was for the player's choices to determine whether Atris joins you as a party member, whether you fight her on Telos, or whether she becomes the final boss on Malachor.
>all those retarded Darth names
>back in TotJ, Sith just used their names instead of acting like rebellious teenagers
That said, Lumiya sounds reasonable, as does Vectivus, but so many holders of the Darth title had spectacularly shitty names.
Was she really trying to make Attris Darth Traya?
Well, before she says that you killed of the two other sith lords. Since she believes in balance (or more exactly neutrality) it might be about that in order for good to exist (assuming you are light side), there needs to be someone evil.
Good loses its meaning when there is nothing bad.
I've been told that Kreia is basically a Vergere, from "Traitor", rip-off. True or false?
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Bane the Big?
>tfw kotor 1 keeps crashing on dantooine
>never gonna become padawan
>never gonna play kotor 2
Not really. Kreia became Sith by exile and discovering the wounds in the force found on Malachor. Then she came to hate the force altogether when the sith turned on her. She uses the exile to try to kill the force.
Vergere was a jedi who turned sith and came to believe the force is neutral, she trains Jacen because she believes he can fix the force and sacrifices herself to ensure his future.
About the only similarities is that they're both morally grey.
She went to Malachor to become a sith, where she discovered the wound in the force. It was later she traced and understand it was the exile's inherent bonding ability that made the wound.
She was turned on Malachor, but she found wounds just retracing Revan's wake or even just collecting Sion and Nihilius,
She was a jedi during the mandalorian wars. She was exiled afterward. She had no husband. You' must be confusing her with someone else's backstory, like handmaiden
She became sith on Malachor, specifically in the academy. Now she was well on her way before that, but the academy is what finally pushed her over.
The Sith and the Dark Side of the Force in general are metaphysical constants that can't be erased. The Force NEEDS there to be balance. Better that someone who understands this function as its leader, to minimize suffering as much as humanly possible while still satisfying the nominal requirements for darkness and evil in the galaxy.
>She had no husband.
Pfft. Yes and Vader had no wife too.
It's pretty obvious as well.
Going to the Dark Side and still being a Jedi is harder. Neutrality only demands that you do good and evil whenever you feel like it.
Funny that the Jedi in the Prequel never realized it
>the Sith have been gone for 1000 years
>yet we think this guy will bring balance to the Force
>I mean, what can go wrong?
Though, to be fair, the small amounts of Sith popping their heads from time to time were always up to no good.
And that Kreia said 'in the end, he came to me'. But I still prefer that Kae and Kreia are different people, not literally, but that they have gone through such hardships that the beginning and end person are so different that they might as well be different people.
It really makes me want to see what Kae was like in her youth.
It doesn't help that every time a Jedi goes bad they say "Oh no, he's not a real Jedi, he's a Sith!" yet every time a Sith or unaffiliated force user does something good the Jedi get all the glory.
The Sith want galaxy domination at all cost, so whenever they do something good, it's mostly and correctly summed that it's towards that goal.
The Jedi are backwards on this since they do evil shit like lying, manipulating people and facts, etc, just to maintain the peace and good.
Atton is right by saying that the Jedi do erroneous evil acts but they do it with good intentions and for a good purpose. Plus, they just like to sit back not claim anything.
She was 'strong in the Force' which tells us a lot and she like was just open about fucking and was more questionable of the Jedi Code.
She knew she couldn't kill the Force and hoped that by putting everything against the Exile as a challenge with proper guidance, it might help future generations. A good intention
To be fair, to a normal person, a person strong in the Force is practically a godamm God.
It's the reason why people like HK-47 and Atton are interesting, they bring down insanely powerful people despite being normal.
>To be fair, to a normal person, a person strong in the Force is practically a godamm God.
No, it isn't fair because no other force user is built up like this. Revan, the Exile, and Kreia are held as some sort of dieties. KOTOR1 did not have this issue or atleast not as bad as KOTOR2. I also blame KOTOR2 for a lot of the more retarded hate toward TOR. People didn't like seeing these characters that were built up as god beings brought back down to Earth.
Also force users aren't gods to normal people. Mandolorians, Bounty hunters, even low life criminals in both Kotor1 and 2 brag about having killed jedi. They're far above a normal person but with ingenuity, a non-force user can beat them. Especially by exploiting the fact they rely on the force
>these characters that were built up as god beings brought back down to Earth.
>ruined = brought back down to Earth
>retconned = brought back down to Earth
Though you ignore a simple fact. The lower the amount of Jedi and Sith in the galaxy, the more powerful each individual is. Only the strong remain in a purge.
Black Talon. The last boss of the instance is named something Baan. Same last name, same race. It's not explicity said to be her descendant but I doubt that it's a coincidence and is just a reference to her.
No she pretty intentional wanted to fuck up the force, as least in the default ending of 2. She intended to use Malachor send permanent echoes through the force if not severe people from it altogether. She absolutely reviled the force, and was fully intent on damaging it as much as she could even if it cost her own life.
How were they ruined? This is what I mean, people consider them ruined because KOTOR2 built them up as God being special snowflakes and TOR did not keep this trend going and brought them back in line with KOTOR1. Most peoples complaints seem to stem from Revan and the Exile getting defeated like bitches instead of triumphantly winning despite facing a far stronger opponent
Revan killed Yusanis to destabilise the Republic, de facto ruining Kreia's life as well
and yet Kreia shlicks to Revan all the time
You do realize that she was not the Echani general's wife, right? That's what sparked the outrage and what caused her exile. The Echani gneeral was already married when Kreia, then known as Arren Kae, had an affair with him, which resulted in Brianna the Handmaiden.
neither Revan nor Malak are names, anon
Revan is just a short form of The Revanchist, leader of the Revanchist fraction that led to the Mandalorian Wars
Alek Squintquargesimus adapted the alias of "Malak" to operate within the Republic without getting arrested, also his real name was too fucking long for most people
The only off the wall character is Nihilius, who can eat planets, and even that is explained, though not really elaborated on. Revan was just a good commander. Exile only true power was her bonding skill. Kreia wasn't strong at all. She's a naggy bitch.
Why people considered these characters ruined is 10 years of no sequel, and head canon. Also the sequel being a shit game. Excluding Nihilius, none of these characters hold a candle to someone like Starkiller.
Because that strength wa sonly made by KOTOR2, in KOTOR1 he wasn't this God being. Also how is it ignoring strength? Do people just assume the player characters are weak/generic nobodies? Each player character class is a giant Mary sue. The inquisitor has the power of like 6 sith lords combined inside of him as well as becoming a dark council member from a slave in like a year, the warrior is the emperors wrath, the bounty hunter is the best hunter in the galaxy and sucessfully hunted and killed several targets every other major bounty hunter couldn't take down, as well as killing the Jedi battlemaster and a few other high power targets, the agent is ingenious enough to take on a dark council member with nothing but a fucking sniper rifle.
The republic side is really even more ridiculous for its force users.
Protip: Ban is the name of a Twi'lek clan, just like Vao is for Mission. A shitload of Twi'leks that aren't blood related take on their clan names as their last names.
She's a fucking Sith. She uses you, she manipulates you, she betrays you, she expects you to do the same. Following her advice puts you very strongly on the "dark side" path. Her entire goal was to annihilate the Jedi; not simply by slaughtering them all like Sion/Nihilus/Malak wanted, but by showing them that their philosophy was flawed and causing them to fall, thus annihilating the Jedi as an ideology, similar to what Revan did except less overtly. The entire purpose of her character, in addition to being a creator avatar, was to fuck around with the player by taking their expectations of the wise old mentor character and flipping it around.
Also Revan doesn't even truly die from this, he comes back and this time it takes the strength of the PC, The current leader of the empire in the emperors absence, the Jedi order Grandmaster, a wookie, a SIS agent and another sith lord. And he isn't even "whole" when this fight happens. The Exile and Revan are also mentioned as the only two beings to ever resist the emperors power and influence (except for the JK PC) and considering how The Sith Emperor is basically force malestrom Palpatine tier...
Not at level 38 they aren't.
So did TOR take down the godlike characters down a notch or were you able to kill godlike characters because the player character is godlike? Got to work on your consistency there anon.
Dude, I think what he means is that an MMORPG is not a pleasant setting for a game such as Kotor where people just want to chill and play a nice RPG living a scenario that holds itself.
Sorry, killing Revan just like it's Illidan from WoW?
Fuck off please.
>When Kae was exiled, she was welcomed by Revan to join the Revanchists and fought the Mandalorians alongside him until the Battle of Malachor V. Yusanis followed her to war, breaking an oath to a person to whom he had pledged himself...
From Kae's wookiepedia page.
>breaking an oath to a person to whom he had pledged himself
Is basically talking about a form of marriage for the Echani.
So what's your issue again? You seem to have been disproven so I don't get it.
Revan being a god being? Fuck off please. He's just a man and he should have died far easier than that.
>kreia one-shots 3 jedi masters and removes them from the force
>turns Atris into a blubbering mess of a jedi
>turns Sion into a practice target for the Exile
She was very powerful. Not as powerful as Revan or Exile sure but she was still strong.
Why not? You have yet to give a reason. What makes Revan untouchable and unkillable by four Mary sues"? And yes, at level 38 the characters are very much Mary sues. The only argument I am seeing is "Revan should be such a Mary sue he is above every other Mary sue". Why would you want a character you like to be rivaling EU Palpatine? He was only ruined for you because KOTOR2 built your expectations of him far too much, and then he was brought down and you can't take it.
Still waiting for what your issue is.
Looking at Revan was like looking into the heart of the force. He was a considerable force user and the exile pretty much has a weaker, but manageable version of Nihilus' power.
I enjoy how the entire game points to the Jedi Order doing nothing wrong. All of the major problems in both KOTORs were directly or indirectly caused by people ignoring the Jedi Council.
>MMO that banns players for going into the wrong PvP zones
>banning players for World PVP and going full dmg control when they're being called out on the forums
>the gameplay is shitty WoW gameplay, why play faux WoW when I can play WoW
>faux free2play model where the most basic features are locked behind paywalls, want to play anything in endgame? too bad
>story mode is a cringefest of pandering to bioware players from romancing your shitty companions to turning them into sex slaves, it reeks of pandering to really sad lonely people
If I missed anything feel free to correct me :^)
Sources and claims made from sources are never simple because autism demands it.
One is that the Jedi exiled her because she bore a child and another is that the Jedi order exiled her because she had an affair.
The former is more in line to how the Jedi Order acts in general and the latter is more scandalous.
I just want to know where it said he was married and had an oath to someone else.
What does this have to do with anything? I didn't ask why you hated TOR, I asked what your issue was with how Revan and other characters were treated and why you felt they were "not shown to be as powerful as they should be"
No Vrook and him are big liars and hypocrites.
Atris, I'd fuck her in a heartbeat but she is a cold hearted bitch.
Zez Kai seemd much more wise and honest about the exile.
That's why he chose nar shadaa
I only played maybe half of KOTOR, and I never really have seen any of the Star Wars, but I think you're getting close to addressing the point OP brings up.
Within even the darkest night, there is always a seed of light. And even within what seems to be the brightest day, there is necessarily a shadow.
It is only in relation that these concepts exist. They cannot exist without eachother -- they are both complimentary and opposites. They undulate and take turns.
This is actually one of the harder parts about understanding the notion of the Force and the Jedi Order for me. Because the Light and Dark side as presented in Star Wars do not necessarily exactly correspond with "evil" and "good". In fact, Light and Dark are more like Order and Chaos. Harmony and Discord.
That Jedi are always trying to preserve balance seems to necessitate its fall.
So wherever there is order -- whether a Jedi Order or an Empire -- there is always that which weathers away at its base.
No reign lasts forever. For any hero to arise, there must be a villian to necessitate the heroic deeds.
There must be a vacuum, a void, for the universe to usher forth that which fills it.
So especially in the Star Wars universe, for the Player, for a Protagonist, for a Game, for a Movie, for a Story to exist --
there must always be a Darth Traya.
I still wonder if Kotor 1 was a criticism of the Prequels. The Jedi joined the Clone Wars much much too quickly imo. Kotor showed the opposite where the council refused to help because of 'a hidden threat' much like how the Sith were a hidden threat behind the CIS and a shadowery figure controlling the Senate.
There's a video somewhere where the Jedi Council all recognize what they felt on their respective planets rather than be ignorant.
The handmaidens. Both them and Brianna mention that they all share a father, but the last of the handmaidens has a different mother. If you probe her about it she'll reveal she's the child of an affair with the jedi.
Kreia was a pretty hit or miss character. I really enjoyed her because she felt like a true mentor and her views of the force were very interesting and different from the other views of the force. I guess other people were just annoyed with her and didn't care for what she said.
KotOR 1 had better worldbuilding and setting. The planets themselves were more interesting, and learning about the Rakata and the Sand People was top-tier (up until they introduced le superweapon Star Forge, of course).
KotOR 2 had a much better, more subtle plot, and better characters.
Thus, I think overall both games were equal in terms of everything other than gameplay; each had its own strengths and weaknesses. However, since the gameplay of 2 was unarguably improved (workbenches actually did something, more weapons, more variety in builds, and more dialogue/quest options), I think 2 is the slightly better game overall.
>However, since the gameplay of 2 was unarguably improved
Adding upgrades to items improves nothing. The whole system is fucked at the core and balance is all over the place. If anything, the upgrading broke the game even further.
But then again, it's not like there's any way to fix a game where your tactical options will always boil down to spamming your preferred method of attack over and over again.
Question all of them until you find one that accidentally refers to himself in the first person. If you have a high enough Wisdom you call him out on it.
It's one of the ones in the south corner of the first Gand room.
> literally trying to destroy the living force, which would mean death for all force sensitives, Jedi and Sith (including herself)
You're right bruh, totally just le ebin sith lord
Both games are piss-easy, and can be min-maxed. At least 2 gave you more options (through combat, weapons, dialogue, quests, etc.). In a game like this, giving the player more more options is never a bad thing. A few options may make the game even easier than 1, but at least the player is more free to make those choices.
Because she needed Sion, Malachor V and herself as the enemy to provide a final test to you. Whatever she calls herself at the moment is only to manipulate people. She has her own set of beliefs neither Jedi nor Sith would approve of.
>Play entire game light side
>Make 1 mistake by not supporting the queen but instead support general vulka or whatshisface name
>No worries, i'll just double cross this guy when I can
>There is literally no opportunity to do so
>Must kill jedi master
>YOU ARE DARK SIDE YOU FILTHY SITH
Well, at least I got the charge up Visas loading ramp.
It makes sense for her to be a Sith. The Exile has to defeat all of the Sith on Malachor. Her being a Sith is better than her being her regular self in a Sith academy that she created.
>not supporting the Queen
Why? Seriously, just why?
Strength wise, women always lose but if you add magic, it lets them come on top. And I'm fine with that.
Especially in a galaxy where every girl has a perfect body and most women should become slaves.
The game's been out for fucking years and there are still always endless discussions about the story, Kreia's motives, and what the fuck was going on. Still endless opinions. It's a damn shame it was never finished and they pulled that 2deep4u bullshit instead of writing a coherent story. But since it was anything but SW's usual childish "perfect good guys vs 100% super evil bad guys" it's praised as amazing. I hate being a SW fan, it's eternal suffering through huge piles of shit for a few nuggets of gold.
I'm trying 2 blasters sneak attack right now.
Sure it doesn't kill with 2 out of 4 attacks it gets in a round, but killing an enemy in 1/2 rounds is fine. I'm guessing bosses are going to be a bitch since I cant CC them for sneak attacks.
mitra is that fucking hat catholic bishops wear
Why do people find Kreia's advice to be confusing? She literally tells you that she's there to make you think about what you're doing. So easy to make her happy and get influence with her if you think about it for any amount of time
Not really, desu. There aren't really any dropped story lines and a ton of memorable moments
> Siege of Khoonda
> Nar Shaddaa Assassin's Ball
> HK Factory
> Jedi Council's betrayal
> Storming of Malachor V as a fully amped up Jedi and carving through legions of Sith like a hot knife through butter
Restored content mod is one of the best joint gameplay/story experiences that I've ever had
>im not like the other jedi, i walk the fine like between dark and light side of the force because im speshul
As far as pure damage goes I'm pretty sure crit sabers do a fuckton more damage because of the triple crit multiplier lightsaber form and overpowered crystals. The first of my 4 attacks that crits pretty much kills most normal mobs with the 150 damage it does.
I'll give you Visas because she had a pretty hard life but Bastilla's baggage is just some garden variety parental abandonment.
although I guess being a former sith for a week after some torture would be a problem
Malachor V is still shit. The place is as empty as always (save for the legions of sith that die when you fart at them) and the companion scenes are clearly only a fragment of everything that was planned, making them feel pretty jarring. The prison reunion being the cherry on top, consisting of a whole three lines blatantly transplanted from a party banter comment that was supposed to fire on the surface.
But yeah, the restoration mod otherwise improves the game a lot. There are some lines that probably shouldn't have been restored and were cut for reasons other than rushing the game, but overall it's a definite improvement.
Faggot agenda, okay personality.
Good agenda, but the worst personality.
>Lets hide on a overpopulated metal landscape and do nothing!
Gee what a faggot. At the least he doesn't seem fucked in the head.
The only thing i loathed about the summit is that you can't complete it. Since its not finished.
Critsaber is an overkill really. Most things drop dead in one turn anyway once you get your build rolling. At least with blasters you don't have to run up to them/suffer horrible force jump wonkiness to steamroll things quickly.
People have real trouble reading things that are written 100% straight.
They need there to be things between the lines to not be confused as fuck.
Also why lawyer as a occupation exists, partially.
> Malachor V is still shit. The place is as empty as always
I liked it that way. The place was literally a wound in the Force - it makes sense that it was twisted, confusing and desolate.
The prison reunion was a bit forced, I agree, but there's only so much they could do with what they had.
Disney's been updating KOTOR 2 regularly on Steam, I'd love it if they did an HD remaster that incorporated the restored content along with new polish from the original VAs.
> tfw Artis was originally supposed to be stunning but console grafix couldn't handle the complex model
> tfw she was also supposed to be secretly in love with the Exile, which only added to her resentment
> tfw we will never see a Blue is the Warmest Color-esque romance scene between the two
Using Plague power to cripple Darth Sion and Choke him when his attributes are low enough to penetrate his defense.
Watching an undying brute being defeat like that is amusing.
off topic but I saw that picture and had to ask
any other old JKA players returning to the game? Surprisingly it's still alive, moreso than the days it started dying out in the early PS3 era I've noticed me and the few other old players I've ran into will eventually lead to it dying again. Most of the new guys ragequit when faced with ye olde' 2006 saber techniques.
She was also supposed to become Darth Traya and then when you defeated her, provided certain conditions were fulfilled, you could redeem her and have her as one of your companions.
>tfw no Atris gf
>you can CC bosses
I thought they were immune to any crowd control ability. Fuck I need to put points into plague then. I always ignore it because shit dies too fast to debuff most of the time.
>tfw she was also supposed to be secretly in love with the Exile, which only added to her resentment
Wasn't even really cut. It's subtle, but there's enough left in the game with what Kreia says and how the second Telos visit (both Kreia's and yours) goes to see it.
And of course if you get restoration mod, the scenes with Handmaiden make it pretty damn obvious she has a serious unrequited love problem.
Same reason a lot of great content was cut out - lack of time/money.
Disney really needs to release a fully restored/polished overhaul. They have the rights to something pretty special.
I think only Kreia is practically immune. Her saves are fucking ridiculous to the point I don't think it's even possible to CC her. Does Kotor even have crit fails on a 1?
Sion definitely can get choked like a bitch.
>I don't think it's even possible to CC her
Tell that to Sion and his force choke.
I thought bosses were completely immune to actual crowd controlling abilities. Stasis and whatnot. Thank god they're not though. I thought my sneak attacks were going to be useless.
I still play it off and on. It'll never really die out completely, but there are like 2 or 3 semi full servers at any given time.
I miss the days that clans ran ongoing servers on the custom maps. Jedi's Home, Sith Academy, and all that.
Sion is prone to these attacks because you can lower his defense through persuading him. May be Sion is kind of a brute so his Will defense is also lower .
Kreia is difficult to CC because she is a consular which gives her higher defense on resisting force power.
They've had at least 3 major updates to KOTOR 2 since Disney took over the IP, including a graphics overhaul, controller support and fully supported incorporation of the cut content mod into Steam workshop.
I agree, it's unlikely, but it's clear someone at LucasArts is paying attention to KOTOR 2 in particular (they haven't done the same for KOTOR 1).
>they haven't done the same for KOTOR 1
I wish they fucking would, KOTOR2 is my preference of the two but KOTOR1 was still solid enough for anyone like me that eats up anything star wars related. Can't play it without it crashing every 5 minutes. The worst I get in KOTOR2 is having to alt-tab out then back in after FMV sequences
>/v/ will never get together and make its own KOTOR mod
All the tools are out there.
> deep in the heart of Malachor V
> encounter Darth STRAYA
> Bogan clad in a wifebeater and short shorts
> after you defeat him in battle, he asks you to kill him so his mates won't find out
> you refuse
> he calls you a weak cunt and summons 3 Koala bears to finish you off
Going to bed. Have a good time chatting, anons.
What is basically does is fuck with the gravity of a planet.
So all the ships orbiting Malachor V crashed into the planet from the massive and quick increase in the strength of gravity.
Eh, Avellone is obviously god-tier, but J.E. Sawyer was responsible for some of the most interesting content in F:NV. I'm sure Obsidian has a deep enough bench to make it work.
Why did they even cut it?
The place was 90% finished and all the dialogue there is hilarious. Instead they chose to trash it all and leave a billion hints towards visiting the HK factory in the game.
Is it ever addressed exactly why Bao-dur built the Mass Shadow Generator? It's easy to come to a conclusion why he built it based off of what else me know about him even if it's not stated exactly.
Bao-dur hates Mandalorians > He invents something meant to kill lots of Mandalorians.
Because it was fucking garbage and they didn't have time to make the gameplay not suck ass.
He was probably ordered to come up with a weapon of mass destruction and that's what he came up with.
It was one of many weapons he designed for the Republic during the war. I think he mentions that he built it when he was a Lieutenant, but before he was working under the Exile.
He was an engineer, and a good one. Killing Mandies is what he signed up for after all. He gets the order, he does it.
Most likely the generator was in some part Revan's idea. HK and Kreia hint that he saw Malachor as a chance to purge the ranks from all the less loyal Jedi. A device like that was perfect for this goal.
The gameplay sucks ass in the entire series. All that had to be done was cut the number of the HK-50s in half and the place suddenly becomes tolerable combat-wise.
It suffers from what most heavily scripted, linear intro dungeons do. It's ok the first run through, but has zero replayability.
It doesn't help that Peragus is really fucking long.
I liked how 2 addressed that whole thing by showing how the Jedi and the Sith just seemed like the same thing to the average person. Revan's whole rebellion thing was even called the Jedi Civil War
I think it was a very good tutorial/hook for the universe (You spend most of your time solving the mystery of what happened on the station). That said, they could have included an option to skip it that unlocked after you beat the game the first time.
>All that had to be done was cut the number of the HK-50s in half and the place suddenly becomes tolerable combat-wise.
The HK factory is piss easy. I honestly don't understand how people could have trouble with it when there's only one easily avoided damage type to deal with.
KOTOR 2 made Revan a Machiavellian sociopath who was playing everyone, only to be reduced to a stereotypical good guy in TOR that was then killed as a mid game boss.
The Exile was killed off screen
Kreia became a force spirit serving some generic Sith Lord, despite that being the complete antithesis of her character
Everyone else was completely ignored
It is piss easy. HK pretty much has god mode all the way through if you get him some anti-energy items.
The problem is he doesn't even have half the damage output of a jedi and all the enemies are horrible damage sponges. You might as well go make a sandwich while he slowly autoattacks things to death.
>>kreia one-shots 3 jedi masters and removes them from the force
Which was established as a fairly standard power that was never used because no one knew how to do it
>>turns Atris into a blubbering mess of a jedi
Purely by mind games.
>>turns Sion into a practice target for the Exile
Once again by mind games. Sion was obsessed with having Kreia's approval, and she just used that to fuck with him
She's just an old woman who is really fucking smart
I was playing Pillars last night and there was some pretty cool stuff there, like the whole Godhammer thing, Waidwen's Legacy, people going insane from awakened souls and all that shit. If the races, classes and general setting were more interesting people would be praising its story
>both of them were sacked
dunno about Ziets, but Avellone left of his own volition
>First runthrough of the game
>Didn't turn Atton into a Jedi
>Didn't turn Mira into a Jedi
>Didn't turn Bao-Dur into a Jedi
>Decide to send them all in a party to the Sith Temple on Dxun while Kreia and I go one-shot crowds of soldiers over at Onderon
>Getting into the temple is hell, have to spam explosives
>every fucking Sith is pitched battle because no one there is a damn Jedi and none of them can beat a Sith with a vibroblade
>entire temple is as heinous as this, finally make it to boss fight
>Sith Master and two Sith Lords
This is what I get for not giving a shit about the dialogue trees the first time around.
Don't be a smartass. No matter how you build HK (and yes, TWF is really the only sensible option on a non-jedi), he still has no access to Force Speed. This means his damage output is effectively halved compared to other party members.
Meanwhile, the 50s in the level have hundreds of HP, carry repair kits and appear in groups of up to 8. Many, many times over and over again.
>She uses the exile to try to kill the force.
This is incorrect and doesn't make sense given her want to get rid of Nihilus. Kreia admits that the force is integral to life, and without it life would perish
Kreia is a "Grey Jedi" done right. What it would mean to sit on the fence when it comes to the force and decide to let it neither guide or rule you, if only because you've faced the consequences of doing both.
I like Jolee Bindo, but he was as light as they come, surpassing every other companion in the game in his do-good-ness attitude and overall charm. And that's my main problem with the first one and most later Bioware games in general: The simplicity in which they approach character motivations and moral quandaries.
Both Juhani and Bastila are shown to be ethically troubled to downright cunts, yet only Jolee Bindo's alignment is grey, not because of his character or deeds, but because the slider they use to analyze where the characters in the game stand was decided by going Jedi Order: Good, Sith: Bad, charity: Good, kicking puppies: Bad.
Funny how they don't consider brainwashing: Bad and lying: Bad.
And that's why the Exile is a much better character than Revan. He operates in a universe where moral quandaries and consequences aren't as simplistic as the plot synopsis of a Saturday morning cartoon, where the Force is also a burden or even a curse, where good deeds can go punished and redemption is hard to come by.
Exactly, sadly most people missed that.
If killing the force was possible, then she would have done it. Instead she just used the events of the game to show the exile how shitty the jedi and the sith were and then wiped the slate clean so they could rebuild the order, but this time in a way that wasn't going to fuck the galaxy over.
A Sith isn't even a Sith done right. That was what KOTOR III was going to explore before EA decided they needed a WoW killer instead.
Kreia was no Sith or a Jedi. She turned away from both extremes to further her own agenda, a renegade, a "Grey Jedi" if you will. Qui-Gon was often called a Grey behind his back because of his unconventional methods and independence in the field, but he was still an official and loyal member of the Order when he died.
You usually want to level up one of the non-Jedi classes to 4 or 5 to take advantage of certain abilities and then start saving up any levels gained afterwards until you become a Jedi.
>A Sith isn't even a Sith done right
That's a very good point. The Sith are, in their stated principles in this time period of the Old EU at least, all about embracing their emotions as fuel for their power and dominating things for their own benefit. But it typically shakes down to either "LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT HATE" or "I wanna rule the entire galaxy and fuck everything up incredibly shortsightedly" Any emotion that isn't rage is basically verboten as a Sith. It's almost a good counterpoint to how the Jedi got all corrupted by the prequels, where they're supposed to be about serenity and oneness, but end up cutting themselves off from other people and the galaxy.
It's kind of why I liked Jadus's plot in TOR. He's still a crazy Sith, but he's "progressive." In that he thinks all the Empire's people, force sensitive or not, should "benefit" from the ideology of the Sith and proceeds to unleash terror on them all. It was a nice twist on typical Sith edgyness.
In SWTOR as a Sith Sorc you get a companion and you basically end up teaching her that she can still be a Sith, but light side and the story arc is all about embracing your emotion and letting you do shit that helps people without being a faggy Jedi about it.
That's what i took out of KOTOR 2 as well
What I was referring to, what both game allude to, was that the true Sith weren't the edgelords you found in the Old Republic and later, but an ancient race of slaving conquerors that were directly responsible in shaping the galaxy by terraforming and creating/shaping/uplifting the species that resided there.
you can still do level 2, use energy shields a lot and use Carth to carry. Pretty much the only thing you can't do at level 2 is the arena and bendak starkiller, but fuck that
Saying Kreia isn't a Sith is not just semantics, it's a fundamental misunderstanding of her character and role in the story. She is absolutely a Sith and never stopped. Sith is an ideology, after all. Just because she criticizes shallow and petty displays of power and advocates manipulation in the shadows doesn't make her any less of a Sith than Palpatine was.
I loved you but I turned to the dark side because you cheated on me with that disgusting Twi'lek.
If you level Scoundrel up to 5 you'll have an extra Sneak Attack bonus (and if you're playing as a Consular you'll want to take advantage of sneak attacking via your stunning force powers) and an extra feat than you would've with Scoundrel4/Consular16 build. Only downside is you'll be given one less force power, but that don't matter too much since there's only so many force powers you will be using by the end game.
Problem is, she does not act according to the Sith Code at all. You could make an argument for passion, considering her love for the exile and acting on her strong beliefs but the rest?
Power? Kreia doesn't give a shit about it. Everything she did was for two things - first, to nurture her best student to date. Second, to wipe the galaxy of both existing Jedi and Sith. She made you get rid of Atris, the Council, Sion, Nihilus. And in the end, herself. What power did she gain from it? Nothing. Everything was setup for you to be the strong one, not her.
'The Force shall set me free"? Problem is, Kreia thinks the exact opposite. She hates the force and considers it a power that enslaves, not liberates. If only it was possible, she'd rather see it gone from the universe.
Kreia is not a Sith. And not a Jedi. Kreia is Kreia.
Quick /v/, take one waifu with you to the Outer Rim!
> the 50s in the level have hundreds of HP, carry repair kits and appear in groups of up to 8. Many, many times over and over again.
You're exaggerating. The most common group number is 3/4. The 8 fight is practically the boss of the dungeon.
Even without Force Speed, you're still getting 4 attacks a round with Rapid shot. It's enough to put down an HK-50 in 1/2 rounds.
>someone here actually won't pick visas
Kreia is at odds with the Sith ideology. Her entire belief system is predicated on the rejection of force power and shallow sentiment. Everything she does in your company is ultimately to educate you into becoming a better person, regardless of the Force. She dies for this belief, the ultimate rejection of Sith egoism.
She's only "Sith" as a tool. A safeguard, even.
Holy hell, you missed the point so fucking hard.
Every lesson she teaches you revolves around the idea that true power, true strength is not overt. It's not about raising vast armies or killing whoever you want. It's staying in the shadows and subtly manipulating events so that what you want to happen ends up happening without anyone realizing you're the true source.
And guess what? That's exactly what happens. Through you, she manipulates events so that the remaining Jedi reveal themselves and become vulnerable, and so that her failed students are culled. That is power, the kind she advocates. That's exactly why I brought up Palpatine because he did the exact same thing: keeping himself in the shadows and playing both sides so that, when the Jedi finally clued in, it was too late. Palpatine is essentially the closest example of Kreia's ideology, at least up until he decided to spam force storm while yelling about unlimited power.
>McDiarmid illuminated on the scene where Padmé Amidala is almost assassinated:
>There's a moment in one scene of the new film where tears almost appear in his eye. These are crocodile tears, but for all those in the movie, and perhaps watching the movie itself, they'll see he is apparently moved — and of course, he is. He can just do it. He can, as it were, turn it on. And I suppose for him, it's also a bit of a turn-on — the pure exercise of power is what he's all about. That's the only thing he's interested in and the only thing that can satisfy him — which makes him completely fascinating to play, because it is an evil soul. He is more evil than the devil. At least Satan fell — he has a history, and it's one of revenge.
sheev may not be as nuanced as kriea but imho he's still the GOAT sith in terms of portrayal
It's you who's missing the point really fucking hard.
The Sith want power. Kreia DOESN'T. Power is means to an end for her, not a goal in itself like for the Sith. The end is getting rid of both Jedi and Sith as they are and leaving her best apprentice to rebuild in their place. She willingly gives up her life just so this can be accomplished. Hell, she plans it from the very beginning. She rules over nothing and she doesn't want to. The Sith are all about egoism, Kreia is the antithesis of it.
You're confusing the methods with the goals.
Except Kreia's lessons aren't about the acquisition of power, they're about how our emotions and preconceptions about a universe governed by a god of good and bad intentions distorts our perception of reality and generates needless conflict. She's teaching you about subtlety in morality as much as subtlety in true power. She wants you to look past the Force, because you are above it.
Your limited ideas of what power is were exactly what Kreia was talking about. Did you just shut your brains off on Nar Shadaa or what? She explicitly refers to this in both the "Kreia hates beggars" and "feel the Force coming from this pit" cutscenes, and it's a recurring theme in most of her teachings.
The only recurring theme I'm getting here is that you're unwilling to recognize that Kreia's criticism of the Force is legitimate and instead would rather see her as some saturday morning cartoon villain like Palpatine.
Say what you want about KOTOR II's writing, or waifu garbage, or whatever, but I thought the dialogue related to Atris's severe desire for the space D was actually some of the most poignant in the game. At least in the Restored Content mod.
>at the very end, when she's just left in the meditation chamber with the holocrons, and they basically ask her why, even at the very end, she never confessed
>Kreia before the final fight, talking about how unspoken sentiments like that are the building blocks of great tragedies
>how throughout the game, Atris ends up looking increasingly hypocritical in every cutscene, after you realize
They did a good job with her.
An extra attack for each weapon.
That's the whole reason why Rapid Shot is the only good ranged special attack. It actually works well with Two Weapon Fighting while Power/Sniper Shot don't.
You're Revan, the big bad guy who wasn't actually a bad guy from a certain point of view. You get memory wiped and get a second chance because reasons. Then in 2 some bitch who hates the force manipulates you into killing all the Jedi and the Sith, including her.
>KOTOR (non-steam version) keeps fucking crashing after i see Calo Nord for the first time
>stuck in an endless fucking loop every time I go through the door and witness him gun the rhodians down.
SOMEONE FUCKING HELP, GOOGLE IS FUCKING USELESS
IS THE GOG VERSION STABLE?
Pretty sure it's implied that she does, actually, harbor romantic feelings for the Exile. Not "love" the way Kreia loves you. "Love" in the "I'll use my jealousy of the Handmaiden's romantic involvement with the Exile to fuel my power" sense.
>Kreia hates beggars
Again you miss the point. Her whole character is essentially about going Beyond Good and Evil in a universe where a mystical force enables and reinforces a slave morality that keeps the galaxy in constant and often needless conflict. She doesn't literally hate beggars. She hates the idea of them and how society reacts as a result, because it represents failure. Give to one or ignore him, neither will help root out the problem.
>The (Kylo Ren's) lightsaber was crudely assembled based on an ancient design dating back thousands of years to the Great Scourge of Malachor.
so the events of KOTOR aren't canon but apparently they are making references to those times so maybe we'll see something
So I finished 2 not too long ago and i got really fucking confused at the end.
Why did Kreia want you to kill her?
The fuck is a Wound in the force? How is the dude with the mask (I forgot his name) A wound in the force?
Why did Bao have to fuck up malacor 5 again?
What was GO-TO Doing with the little bot at the end, Did I miss a cutscene?
darth bane book, han solo adventures, clone war books are sweet. praesitlyn conflict with anakin as the lead is good, the ROTS novel is fucking amazing, theres one where anakin is a padawan and him, obi, and fisto go to some planet and fight ventress thats pretty good, forgot the name. labyrinth of evil is really good too
It's Star Wars adventures that were set so far in the past that there wasn't any chance that they'd affect canon or be limited by it.
Originally a more distinct setting from the movies in both look and level of technology, until Bioware was tasked in making an RPG and decided that it was more attractive for potential customers to live out their Star Wars fantasies than explore a more distinct setting that might alienate them. Good games though.
just beat it.
didn't turn anyone into a jedi. visas fell in love with me, that whore. wasn't even evil enough for the door at korriban.
never got a prestige class either. at least my lightsabers did 50 dmg.
yeah i fucked up i guess.
Yeah what the fuck is up with shit like that? Even in ASOIAF
>the first men came over in ships fucking 20,000 years ago
>we still only have galleys and shit
Just reduce that shit
>Force push someone off of a building in Cloud City, intending them to spend the rest of their short, miserable life screaming in fear as they fall for eternity
>Acceptable use of the Force
>Force choke someone to death
>You seem to have great anger Jaden. Please resist the lure of the Dark Side.
I know, that's just the easily understood name for that cutscene. But if you threaten to kill the beggar her lesson isn't "don't be evil", her lesson is "don't be petty because true power means manipulating people for your own ends." She's not complaining about the evil of your act, but the short-sighted pettiness of it.
>"From one act can come tremendous power, when the echo has traveled as far as it can. Send a great echo, and power will come to you."
This is also the crux of the return to Dantooine on the dark side path. She doesn't criticize you just for killing the Jedi. She criticizes you for doing so with no purpose besides short-sighted murder. (because the game doesn't let you, but still)
Also pay attention when you are manipulative and she praises you for it. She refers to it as power, as strength. She does not reject power, she does not reject using the Force, she rejects dependence upon it and short-sightedness because in the end she sees that as powerlessness in the long run. This is her interpretation of the Sith Code, not a simple rejection of it.
Non-steam copy, why are there patches out there? Anyway, i transferred my save over to my steam copy (got it on humble bundle for 1$ months ago) and i'm not crashing
so thank fucking god.
Thanks for the heads up anyway anon, I had no idea there was a patch.
>Nicest person in the game
>Somehow "less good" than Bastila or Juhani because he didn't follow a Jedi Code the game itself, much like the movies point out, is flawed
I kind of wish there wasn't a Light/Dark side slider in both games.
They can only become Jedis because of their connection to the MC, because they become bonded to him which unleashes any latent force power in them.
The MC was a very powerful force user during the Mandolorian wars since he always formed those bonds with soldiers. I mean, look at the respect he commands with Bao-Dur, a man that is a savant with machines.
I'd explore their Outer Rims, if you know what I mean.
No thanks, I rather do it the real way with a high-test Jedi woman.
She can feel all the lust in your mind anon
She mentions it repeatedly about the two love choices. I am sure mira would have gotten one if obsidian got around to it between hookers and blow.
Obviously that's why they locked the Korriban Cave behind having a 75% either way on the slider.
You could argue how the force is enslaving you through temptation of stat boosts, but actual fucking content?
Yes. Luckily for me, I also have a smattering of basic common sense when it comes to subtext, and what an "implication" is. Sorry you felt the need to trade that in for extra chromosomes.