>>323447819 Fallout 3 wasn't hardcore. Why should Fallout 4 be hardcore? Also, who says that it has to be hardcore? It's an entirely different publisher. This is like saying the Nolan Batman films are terrible because they aren't campy and ridiculous. They have a lot of flaws, but complaining because "it's not the old shit" is a flawed argument.
>>323448006 Games being casualized in and of itself isn't inherently a bad game. Yet Fallout has it's roots in hardcore rpgs, and the ways in which they casualize 4 negatively impact the overall experience. Casualized games themselves aren't always bad. But Fallout 4 makes Fallout 3 look hardcore, and there's a problem there.
>>323449431 >Yet Fallout has it's roots in hardcore rpgs Like I said, why does it have to be hardcore? Refer back to my Batman examples. Both the campy and the serious movies have flaws, but the Nolan films aren't bad simply because they're serious.
>>323449792 Because a lot of the appeal of the past games is their deep and rewarding roleplaying systems. No, it doesn't HAVE to include those things and be hardcore, you're right. I still enjoy the game. It's just when they change stuff like only have perks instead of allocating skill points to different skills, and severely watering down the dialogue system, it makes the game feel like a step back rather than a step forward.
>>323447303 gamers will to evolve as human beings and looking to games as a means to an end. Getting confused about the so called casulisation of the industry. If you play enough games any games wikll eventually seem causual.
>>323447639 >Why is it shit? Considerably fewer roleplaying options, an incredibly bland and arbitrary progression system, mediocre gunplay, bad writing, bugs everywhere, and stupidly repetitive quests/dungeons. There's nothing remotely engaging about it.
>>323450645 And I'm not convinced it's a "quintessential RPG." Before in their games, you had to really commit to the sort of character you wanted to play as. What kinds of weapons you wanted to focus on, what sorts of abilities and skills and that sort of thing. That's where the roleplaying part comes in. In Fallout 4, you really just take perks, and it's easy for you to just take every perk and be good at everything.. Which is certainly fun, don't get me wrong, and it encourages experimentation. But that combined with a poor dialogue system that doesn't offer much choice and isn't very robust makes the roleplaying itself less engaging than it has been in the past.
>>323452391 >and it's easy for you to just take every perk and be good at everything.. Not really though, you have to have the right SPECIAL. And because of how they balanced it that's very hard to become a jack of all trades.
>>323452696 It's not difficult to become a jack of all trades at all. There's no level cap so you can't get every perk and max every stat. Vanilla Fallout 3's level cap was 20 so there was only so much you could do, so you had to be more mindful about how you allocate points and what perks to take.
>>323454048 >Vanilla Fallout 3's level cap was 20 so there was only so much you could do That's not true at all. If you got 9 (10 with bobblehead) Intelligence you easily could get 60+ in every stat, with 100 in multiple. Fallout 3 was significantly easier to become godlike in. >>323454062 I'm talking about how the Pip Boy screens were optimized and how the container previews were added and grenades and SO ON.
>>323454048 >>323454315 And then if you got all the skill mags well fuck, you're at 100 in everything. Which didn't even require 10. You just needed like 5 Intelligence and as long as you took Educated and Comprehension you're guaranteed to get 100 in everything.
>>323454698 I really don't get why you hate the Pip Boy. I've never had any issue with it taking up the screen. You're just trying to fish for negative qualities to hate the game. Which is all you people do, really; because otherwise you can't justify why fallout 3/4 or obliv/skyr are much worse than their flawed predecessors.
>>323455014 I mean the new system works for sure, it just doesn't feel...meaningful, I guess? Looking at the perk chart I never feel any inclination to go above like, 6 in anything but Luck. And even then I don't need Grim Reaper because they debuffed it. Granted all the games have been the same in that.
>>323453360 For one, it was the possibility to chose your own character, which a voiced protagonist with a predetermined background doesn't allow properly. Also keep in mind how you have almost no options for anything. It limits roleplaying so much, which Fallout always was huge on. Even FO3 had it more than fO4
>>323455376 >For one, it was the possibility to chose your own character But I mean the original ones did have templates (or was it only 1? can't recall). The only game that truly involved making your own character/story is New Vegas.
>>323456424 No, just telling the truth. You cannot tell me menus and turn based are more fun than F3 and F4. >>323456524 I have a feeling Bethesda just really doesn't like having that complicated of a main narrative. Fallout 3 was the same.
>>323452375 >hyperbolizing Care to explain how there are anywhere near as many roleplaying options as there were in FNV then? How the progression system isn't riddled with bland +% increases and arbitrary level requirements? How the gunplay, with its spongy enemies, piss poor weapon variety, and lack of movement options is anywhere near as good as titles like Metro, STALKER, etc.? How the central conflict makes no sense thanks to the stupid or nonexistent motives of all the factions, or quests like Cabot House or Kid in a Fridge? What about the bugs that cause people to walk out of conversations entirely, prevent your weapon from loading in, or prevent your settlement from functioning? How all the quests save a handful are just dungeon raids with the occasional choice of who to kill at the end?
>>323456846 Bethesda didn't make FNV. You don't know what you're talking about. >>323456956 Definitely hoping that Obsidian makes another one. >>323456970 No, I'm saying that there are accessible forms of media that are still good.
>>323457681 No, image macros on /pol/ and /v/ are hindrances to discussion. Put forward your own beliefs or GTFO, kid. >>323457803 You can't expect Bethesda to make the game like FNV. NV was very different from 3: it eschewed leveled loot/enemies, it focused more on quests and writing than a consistently interesting world, and Fallout 3 was an actually finished game. You cannot compare NV to 3 or 4. >>323457845 Shitposting will get you nowhere. >>323457945 Who the fuck cares what Fallout is "supposed to be?" It's a fallacious argument that "because it was this way, it should always be this way."
No, it's shit because of the complete lack of actual RPG elements. It's shit because it looks like a last gen game but still runs like ass. It's shit because the animations are still horrible. It's shit because it's on Gamebryo. It's shit because it's a bug riddled, lazy mess.
It's shit because it's Bethesda, and they have kept all of their lazy, buggy, ugly shittiness and removed all the charm, mechanics, and variety.
They are just phoning it in and milking the cows and getting GOTY mentions despite failing to do a single innovative thing in over a decade.
Oh yeah! Paid mods. Fuck Bethesda and their shitty games.
>>323458239 >dismissing a valid comparison of rhetoric as "shitposting" instead of actually defending the rhetoric itself I guess surrendering to name-calling works if you physically can't defend what you think.
>>323459041 >I said Bethesda shits out lazily made games that suffer from being derivative, cobbled together messes. >lazily made The sheer amount of content in their games proves that they aren't lazy, they just prioritize. >derivative How so? >cobbled together How so? >>323459140 >I won >winning you're literally a child lmao >>323459163 >valid comparison of rhetoric you're also a child
If you think your opinion is objective about the game, you are a child or a manchild.
There is no reason to say "FALLOUT IS SHIT AND YOU CANNOT DISAGREE OR YOU ARE CASUAL SCUM"
Unless you're a kid who thinks game journalism is corrupt and /v/ needs to stop it.
So I'll stop replying to anyone who refuses to put forward reasonable arguments.
But if you want to reasonably discuss the game, I'm all ears.
>>323458239 By your logic, I can't compare Fo3 to Fo4 since Fo3 has a tremendously different progression system, a greater focus on designing interesting, self-contained locations instead of venues for radiant faction quests, only had one way to progress through the entirety of the MQ, and had an obviously unfinished ending that they "completed" with DLC. Your qualifications for comparison are completely arbitrary. Argue the points or concede.
>>323459672 >>323459715 If you have reasonable arguments I'm willing to hear them. >>323459581 FO3 and FO4 are made by the same publisher, FO1 and FO2 and NV were made by a different publisher with entirely different priorities.
>>323454062 >>323453253 i think he is talking about not needing to actually open containers to see what's inside (that makes a lot of difference), better system for power armor and companions, mods, and the fact that every place in the game follows the same logic. It needs power, food, water.. in NV/3 you have cities in the middle of Nothing. Even a raider base needs supplies in FO4. Melee finishers were a nice addition, and blitz is interesting (even if it needs some work). There were a lot of improvements.
>>323459991 >FO3 and FO4 are made by the same publisher, FO1 and FO2 and NV were made by a different publisher with entirely different priorities. And I can't compare them because...you said so? Nevermind that they use similar mechanics, a similar skill system, the same universe, the same genre conventions etc.? Great. Thanks. Now I know the only standards I can hold a Bethesda game to are the ones Bethesda sets.
>The sheer amount of content in their games proves that they aren't lazy, they just prioritize.
They've been using the same engine for over a decade. They designed systems to auto generate quests. They copy and paste hallways and caves over and over. Their games run poorly. They are poorly animated ( woo moonwalking in third person! ). Hell, they hire 12 voice actors and have them voice a thousand NPCs.
They just make the same game over and over, but they get a little worse every time because modders will fix it, and then we'll try to monetize their works so we can make even more money.
>so much content
The Witcher 3 has way more content while largely avoiding the issues I've mentioned above. You can make big, expansive games that are polished, and not lazy hackjobs.
>>323460431 >Well then you might as well compare Taylor Swift to Pierre Boulez by your logic. Or JK Rowling to Proust. I don't think Boulez composed country/pop hits about love and loss, or that Proust wrote low fantasy YA novels centered around magic and wizardry. Bethesda and Obsidian did indeed both create open world 3D Fallout RPGs, though, so there's a bit more to compare there.
>>323461026 Once again >can't provide an argument >>323461167 >They've been using the same engine for over a decade. False, Creation engine was new/updated for Skyrim. The radiant quests are lame sure. >They copy and paste hallways and caves over and over. Literally only Oblivion. >Their games run poorly Not if you actually fiddle with them. >Hell, they hire 12 voice actors and have them voice a thousand NPCs. You literally are objectively wrong. Please grow up. You're clearly just spouting /v/ memes fed to you.
>Dad wastes a GECK to build a useless water purifier that dumps its water right back into the radioactive river >Random wastelander in the Minutemen can build a fucking teleportation device out of scrap metal
Fallout 3 is a relatively small texture/geometry set being painted over a big land mass. You're going to tell me they just plug in hallways that are the exact same over and over? You can go play the game and see it with your own eyes.
>Not if you actually fiddle with them
Irrelevant. This goes back to " modders will fix it. " and it's bullshit. If you can't ship a game with ancient graphics that somehow doesn't run well right out of the box, you are LAZY.
>literally objectively wrong
Am I? Have you ever even played a Beth game? They do not have good voice acting outside of a few overpaid A listers they snag to do a major character role that is barely utilized. How many lines of dialogue did Liam Neeson do for FO3?
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