>>323402314 >I don't know what I'm talking about They were already talking with Enix about merging beforehand. The movie did so bad that it made Enix not want to go through with it and it wound up happening way later than they originally planned.
They were breaking new ground and aiming for photo realistic 3D. They were thinking they were making something on par with Akira that was going to be looked back as a groundbreaking achievement in animation. They thought the protagonist girl was going to be a "virtual actor" that would star in many upcoming films.
It's not really awful. But it's really god damn boring. The pacing is slow, the story isn't that interesting and very little happens. The story is something about ghost aliens or something. I'm not even clear.
I watched the making of of this movie. All they talked about was how fucking flowing the hair is. how they animated every strand of the hair. the effects they made with the hair. That slow motion where aki ross' hair fell with too much focus on how the gravity falls it down. Why there were no other characters with hair in the movie.
At some point around Parasite Eve 2 they realized that all they need to do to generate sales for their JRPG games is to insert a bunch of FMV shower scenes. It didn't take long after that for the entire genre to descend into bizarre niche fetish softporn.
It feels dirty playing a lot of modern JRPGs, they seem more like creepy waifu dating simulators than games. They're pretty clearly targeted to a very specific audience and the games aren't really accessible to anyone outside that audience. Once these guys stopped buying games, they tried pandering to other segments with games like Mindjack and that really didn't work out.
>>323403238 So how did this relate to the series at all? I have always been baffled by it. It just doesn't look like any Final Fantasy game so I never watched it. I watched the Mortal Kombat movies because it looked like god damn Mortal Kombat.
>>323405256 Movie itself is tolerable but it was a failed experiment that cost Square $98,000,000. This is not a loss anyone can walk away from easily, even a powerhouse like Square. It was Square that was in financial problems because their own fuck ups. The "forced merger" where "evil" Enix bought Square according to you is the only reason Square is still alive nowadays.
Also the drop in the quality of Final Fantasy series has to do with Yoichi Wada and Motomu Toriyama that both are Square's employees having nothing to do with Enix. tl;dr: Square fucked their own shit up.
Finally the real tragedy is that Squaresoft's executives somehow managed kept their jobs. They seriously should have all been sacked after blundering their way towards bankruptcy.
>>323401593 Thankfully SE are getting back on their feet - FFXV, KH III, FF VII R, Deu Sex, Tomb Raider, JUST Cause 3 all are good games and SE don't kill some of them just because they're not so much profitable.
FF9 was fucking slow. Everything about the pacing. Just start up the game
>long cgi cut scene that has nothing to do with anything for a few minutes >blah blah blah blah blah scenes >pointless battle >more blah blah blah >more cgi >play as vivi
Very little actually happens. And the battles themselves include a long loading screen, the enemies slowly phasing into existance, slow atb bar, and frame rate that drops to single digits at times.
Play any of the older FF games for an hour, vs 1 hour of FF9. In 9 you will have barely gotten to the kidnapping sequence and left the city, vs. the older ones you've done multiple actual dungeons/missions.
>>323406169 Yes, Sakaguchi was some real talent who just made a blunder happen and proceeded to direct mediocre as fuck games and now does mobile shit while the hacks continued on making good games :-)
>>323406169 Whether or not you like Nomura's character designs he is practically the "old guard" of Square now; he's been there since 4. Other than the MMO team, he's all of the old Square that's left.
Wada is who you want. He got his shitstained fingers into FFXII, and demanded ladyboy as a main character, and demended Matsuno mainstream a game that he intended to ostensibly be a sequel to Vagrant Story. Matsuno resisted and left Squenix for "health reasons".
>>323407167 Yeah, SaGa Scarlet Grace is suppose to come out in Japan sometime in 2016. Though that is about all I know of it. So little information has been released about it. There will probably some sort of new battle mechanics in this game since it will still have sparking but it won't be the main focus in battles.
>>323407543 No, there was only Unlimited Saga and Romancing SaGa Minstrel Song. Eventually they remade SaGa 2 and 3 for the DS in Japan only under those names with what ever subtitle tacked onto it. You must be thinking of The Last Remnant which is often cited as a spiritual successor to SaGa while Legend of Legacy which had a lot of people who worked on SaGa while still lacking the main man Kawazu.
>>323405320 SquareEnix barely qualifies as a merger. Enix was the surviving company by essentially buying out Squaresoft by controlling a huge majority of the shares.
The reason SquareEnix is terrible now is because they became a giant megacorp that is the Japanese Equivalent of EA. The "Polymorphic content" strategy moved SquareEnix from a gamemaker to an multi-media company.
>FFVIII and FFIX fags are arguing about their toys again That's cute but I'll never understand why you fags spend so much time arguing about the two of the most mediocre FFs.
As for what this thread is actually about: Square's gigantic fuck-up with their bs movie which in turn let in to financial problems is the main culpit here coupled with the fact there wasn't anyone directly competing with SE after the merger meaniong they could simply put out halfassed shit that sold with it's name alone instead of having to try to compete with someone with every game they put out. After all back in the day it was the competition between Enix and Square kept games from both companies great and led to many new innovations and IPs.
>>323408190 A "turn" in a final fantasy game refers to the characters acting in turn, just like how table-top RPGs act in turns based on dice rolls. It has no association with board games. You are the only person in the world that doesn't consider Final Fantasy to be turn-based.
>>323408190 >Give chess a timer for both players like Black can move every 10 seconds while White can move every 5 seconds and you've got yourself ATB, White can move twice for every one Black move. That is turn based. Black cannot act until ten seconds has expired then he can take his turn to act while white can take two turns to blacks one turn.
Either way you are waiting to act unlike standard action games.
>>323408542 Are you fucking dense? Did you read >>323408190 with your stupid "you're the only one in the world" bullshit?
FF1, 2, 3 and 10 are LITERALLY turn-based games, Rest FFs are ATB which is not the same as turn-based because if it were it would fucking be called turn-based but ATB is a whole fucking different entity.
FFI is the worst because the original version is filled with bugs and the remakes of it made it too easy. FFII is the worst because the execution of it's stat gaining system wasn't good. FFIII is the worst because many jobs are shit and it has no save points in dungeons. FFIV is the worst because it removed the ability to choose your party members and has absolutely no character customization either. FFV is the worst because it barely has a plot and because many jobs are shit. FFVI is the worst because it also has shitloads of bugs and too many playable characters for it's own good. FFVII is the worst because it's graphics haven't aged well and because it popularized overly long attack animations and FMV cutscenes making them a norm in JRPGs. FFVIII is the worst because it's an extension of everything wrong with FFVII and because the presentation of it's story. FFIX is the worst because it's a failed attempt to combine the best aspects of past FFs making it a mess that doesn't know what it is trying to be. FFX is the worst because it's linear as shit and has an unskippable FMV cutscene for every 5th step you take. FFXII is the worst because it's story isn't particularly memorable and because it plays itself. FFXIII is the worst because it's way too linear and because Toriyama literally tried to shoved his shitty waifu down everyones throats
tl;dr: Final Fantasy was shit before and after the merger so it wasn't the merger or your least favorite FF that killed SquareSoft.
>>323406520 The secret of mana games have been in the dumpster of a long time.
Legend of mana was technically 'good', but it was very niche and didn't offer the experience that many were looking for from the franchise. Even Seiken Densetsu 3, one of the most popular games in the franchise felt extremely wildly off on a different tangent compared to Secret of Mana.
They then shit out a bunch of bad followups and spinoffs, culminating in "Dawn of Mana" which people were EXTREMELY excited about as it was the official next entry... and it was fucking awful. Like next to unplayable garbage. It became some sort of shitty stage-based thing, you had to try and work a 'whip' to manipulate objects in a very, very bad 'action' platformer. Oh and you lost your levels at the end of every stage. Combat was retarded, gamplay was retarded, story was retarded. The only good thing was the cutscene at the beginning.
>>323410028 >B-but you absolutely have draw 100 of every magic from every enemy in every fight as /v/ and Spoony told me so! >B-but refining shit into magic takes even more time because you have to spend hour playing that shitty card game (which is btw is shit because I suck at it) as you obviously cannot refine anything but cards to magic like those useless items in your inventory! >B-but the Card command is worthless because I'm too dumb to figure out it only works on enemies who are low on HP!
Seriously don't bother arguing with these idiots it's not worth it and you are only going to get replies like these.
>>323410665 Nigger, you know that because you've played 8 for so long. In Legend Of Legaia you can get 2 point cards at specific times and places, one to deal point damage and one to unlock hidden store items. You have to use a guide or play through a shitload of times to know this, as no one who is starting blind can have a good chance of finding those cards. It's the same shit as you knowing your shit in FF8. It's not intuitive, nor easy to see such game-breaking shit unless you're a seasoned player or you're using a guide.
>>323412980 Except that I figured all of that out by myself by actually taking a look at the information section inside the menu screen and by experimenting with all the new skills and abilities after learning them in 1999. Also get this: I didn't have internets or guides telling me how to do shit back then so I had to figure it out on my own.
>>323401593 A combination of mismanagement and not keeping up with the times.
In the 8-16 bit eras, if you wanted a game with a story, or a game where you had the freedom to explore a world at your own pace with some degree of customization, you played a JRPG. And Square specialized in JRPGS.
But then developers starting adding "RPG elements" to their games. Customization, stats, etc. Story in games also became more sophisticated, plots became more than just a paragraph in the manual. And then open world games came into vogue and suddenly everything that used to be unique to JRPGS is suddenly standard everywhere, while JRPGS retained all of their negative aspects like grinding and unskippable cutscenes before boss fights.
The genre and developers that specialize in it just never caught up.
>>323402935 >cars and trailers instead of airships and chocobos >trailer trash whores instead of classy European caucasian women >asian men in tuxedos instead of European knights or suspiciously white looking ninjas Well yeah, it's like VII or VIII I guess, but it really doesn't remind me of Nintendo Era FF
>>323415346 it's not nintendo era it was sakaguchi who was the only director with good taste at square, as soon as nomura took over it became an emo shitfest this is why IX was the only good one in the PS1 era, because it was the last one where sakaguchi was somewhat involved again
>>323416981 FF9 is more emo and a bigger edge lord shitfest than any other FF, seriously Zidane has a massive emo streak second half of the game and Kuja and Amaranth are the biggest edgelords in FF ever
Sakaguchi did barely on FF beyond FF5 and he was responsible for FF2 too and only otherwise did the base story in FF9 which is one of the worst FF stories ever
All the good thigns about FF5, 6, 7 etc were from Nomura because he created the characters, designs, monsters, summons and was directly involved in FF7s story writing, world and characters
FF9 is one of the worst FFs ever because it desperately tries to be classic yet fails on all aspects that the older FFs succeeded in while it's a furfag pandering trash game in the process
>>323419742 >Final Fantasy, funnily enough. It was Square's own Pandora's Box. This sounds like it came straight out of a shitty JRPG. When the fuck did Pandora's box EVER do anything you described? If you really wanted to sound like a pretentious retard you could have made a comparison with Icarus' wax wings or shit like that.
>>323401593 As much as people like to blame the merger and movie blunder, you also can't ignore JRPGs have pretty much been in a weaker position compared to SNES and PS1 heyday. PS2 era already saw the creep of ever increasing budgets while JRPG earnings didn't go up, unless you were FF or DQ which always rake in cash. Market simply changed and JRPGs didn't take to it that well.
>>323420479 He also had good reasons for being distant from people and he didn't sugar coat shit.
After seifer's 'death' everyone else is going "oh no he wasn't really a bad dude" squall mans up and calls them all assholes while ultimately saying seifer was a dickhead and made everyone's lives more difficult.
>>323420671 Because they were always a JRPG titan that could afford it. Hell, FF series itself could be used as an example of innovation and variation, sometimes just for the sake of it, while staying true to series themes they established previously.
>>323420761 >This was a sequel in a long established franchise, one which is still getting games If you don't think Legend of Mana did something incredibly unique and new, than you must have never played it.
But that's okay! You can go play it now and experience the magic, because nothing quite like it has been released since. So it's uniqueness is still unique.
>>323421063 >If you don't think Legend of Mana did something incredibly unique and new, than you must have never played it. It was a sequel to an established franchise, not a new IP, and Mana games are still being made.
You tried to include it with one off games but that isn't how it works, Mana and SaGa both are still getting games
Chrono Trigger and Vagrant Story were one off things yes, CT had a sort of sequel with Chrono Cross, but Setsuna itselfis a spiritual successor to CT even using the same battle system and heavily inspired by CT, and TWEWY was god tier even more than Vagrant Story was
>>323420927 >Daedalus makes the wax wings to escape the dungeon with his son >Square makes Final Fantasy as a last attempt to save the company
>Icarus flies too close to the sun and dies >Square bets everything on a movie and goes down Here's your spoonful.
>Do your research on Pandora's Box. You make apt comparisons, and also do your research instead of making stupid pretentious weak analogies and quoting Wikipedia. Pandora's Box was opened due to curiosity, which to quote your own post has nothing to do with "an innocent attempt to save the company". Also opening Pandora's box only unleashed pain and misery onto the world, while the existence of Final Fantasy brought a lot of good quality videogames that people loved.
>>323421651 I know it was different from other Mana games but that isn't the point, the point is that it is still a Mana game, and that guy listed four games as if to say SE doesn't take risks or do one off games or that thos things all ended, yet TWEWY exists, Setsuna exists, SaGa Scarlet Grace exists, Seiken Densetsu/Mana 5 is said by SD devs to in development but its yet to be officially revealed
>>323421249 >Seiken Densetsu >Seiken Densetsu 2 >Seiken Densetsu 3 >LEGEND OF MANA (that's even the name in Japanese >completely different mechanics to the previous games, only thing they have in common are the genre (ARPG) >i-it's a sequel! I just randomly stumbled upon this post on the frontpage and nigga you dumb as hell.
>>323421816 No, in >>323420671 he said >If there's one thing I'll never blame Square for it's them playing it safe because they never were afraid to try something new. He never said new IP, just something new. As in unique. As in Legend of Mana.
They took a risk with Legend of Mana, a risk that sadly didn't seem to go in their favour too. It was a very new idea for a sequel, when it didn't at all have to be.
If you honestly think Legend of Mana didn't do something incredibly new simply because it's part of a franchise than again, you've never played it.
>>323421854 It's called Seiken Densetsu: Legend of Mana in Japan, it is still a sequel just as much as Children of Mana and Heroes of Mana are even though they are both also called Seiken Densetsu DS: Children of Mana and Seiken Densetsu: Heroes of Mana in Japan, none of the SD games are directly connected to one another anyway so they can call them whatever they want.
>>323420590 Yuji Horii and armor project are in charge of every dragon quest title. They hire outsourced companies for the programming and graphics but they are still the ones in charge of everything.
It's similar to when a dev studio is actually owned by a publisher, but Enix never went so far as to buy studios out even though they definitely could have afforded it. Even as SE the only studios they've bought were western ones. In Japan they'll still hire out third parties for various games like tri-Ace.
>>323422039 Sorry but TWEWY is the most unique JRPG to ever exist and it was a completely new IP too.
I have played Legend of Mana, I'm not saying anything about it not doing anything new, learn to read, I'm saying LoM is still a fucking Mana game and Mana games are still being made, and both Children and Heroes of Mana tried different things too
>>323421341 >Also opening Pandora's box only unleashed pain and misery onto the world, while the existence of Final Fantasy brought a lot of good quality videogames that people loved. See >>323408991 Just because tasteless wretches enjoyed watching Square disembowel itself for the mediocre Final Fantasy series and destroy every good thing it had, doesn't mean it doesn't count as unleashing pain and misery.
>>323421806 >Yeah, if you want to go the movie route. But I don't think that killed the company. Square made the movie. The movie flopped. Sakaguchi stepped down from his position and took his money with him. Square had to merge with Enix to survive. It's not a theory, this is literally what happened. >Do your research
>The analogy isn't weak if you base it solely off of the modern saying regarding Pandora's box. Yes it is weak, especially if you base it on that. All the "detrimental and far-reaching consequences" came from how Final Fantasy was mismanaged AFTER it had been created, not by its creation itself.
> If you want to argue semantics about the Mythological lore behind Pandora's box, and Pandora's actually reasons for opening the box, then maybe you're being the pretentious one. OH MY GOD MY COMPARISON WAS SO STUPID AND WEAK I HAVE TO DEFLECT AS HARD AS I CAN WHAT DOES SEMANTICS EVEN MEAN? WHO CARES, THAT'S A WORD PEOPLE USE WHEN THEY TRY TO PROVE OTHER PEOPLE WRONG RIGHT? >All in all, buddy, calm down. THERE, THAT SHOULD HELP TOO
>>323422250 >Sorry but TWEWY is the most unique JRPG to ever exist and it was a completely new IP too. So? What does this have to do with Legend of Mana? Are you saying that because a more unique JRPG exists, all other unique JRPGs before it do not count as unique?
>I'm saying LoM is still a fucking Mana game and Mana games are still being made Nobody is denying this. But how does this have any bearing on whether or not Legend of Mana can be praised for it's uniqueness?
>Children and Heroes of Mana tried different things too Children is a top down co-op dungeon crawler, and Heroes is an SRPG. They did something new within the franchise yeah. But again, Legend of Mana did something new that no other JRPG before or after has attempted.
Only reason I've avoided saying what the most unique part of Legend of Mana is, is because I don't think you actually know it. I want you to explain it to me, and then tell me how that doesn't make it worthy of being praised for trying something new.
>saga frontier never played it >chrono trigger good game >legend of mana secret of evermore was better >vagrant story why do people suck this game's cock so much? I played it and beat it. it wasnt that special. the story was retarded...if you would even consider it a "story" with out little story telling that went on
>>323422486 Unlimited isn't that special. Kawazu always had a unique approach and liked to aim for things closer to pen and paper style games.
In the older SaGas he went with the freedom of creating your party and building them as you want Then he went with multiple story paths, so its like multiple DM designs. Unlimited was just the final step by making the exploration an actual board and adding field skills.
>>323422560 well first thing that comes to mind is FFX. you can't imagine how alienated i felt as an "older" FF fan. it was pretty yes, but >no worldmap and >airship is just a menu screen compeletly killed it for me. 12 took a step back into the right direction, but then came 13. and looking at 15, i'm not very optimistic either with their ARPG sheningans
>>323422606 >Are you saying that because a more unique JRPG exists, all other unique JRPGs before it do not count as unique?
No I'm saying SE still fucking makes unique JRPGs, why the fuck can't you read?
>But how does this have any bearing on whether or not Legend of Mana can be praised for it's uniqueness? Stop sperging out for a second and actually fucking read what is being said to you, no one said anything about LoM not trying something new or that it shouldn't be praised, the point is that you listed only Squaresoft game as if SE doesn't still make unique games, and also ignored that both of the DS Mana games did new things for Mana too.
Having different areas and game progression be created from different paths really doesn't matter, no one is arguing LoMs quality or what it did new here you illiterate fuck
>>323422837 i liked exploring myself, instead of clicking on a list and fly there. excuse me. they're just points that bother me and mark my downfall of SE. you don't have to agree, but to me, SE died with the merger
Oh, man. Man this is silly. Okay. So >>323420671 was replying to >>323413071 who posted a list of what he felt were Squaresoft's classics. And then >>323420671 quoted that list, and in response to it stated that he'll never blame Square for being afraid to try new things. He also posted a picture of Parasite Eve, another very unique Square game.
He wasn't saying those were the only unique games that Square ever made, or that they were the most unique. He was just quoting a list and then giving Square credit that they do absolutely deserve.
And then you got extremely butthurt about how he didn't include TWEWY in his post because, well. I guess because you're a fucking idiot.
>>323422736 >Because they were ALREADY PLANNING MERGING rather than movie forcing them to do so? "I need to do X in order to survive" doesn't change if you were planning to do it all along for different (or weaker) reasons.
If you need a heart transplant in five months because of your health and somebody shoots you in the chest you'll need the heart transplant to survive more than anything, won't you?
>>323422690 Even then the character development was different from the other SaGa games with the skill panels and how it affected your stats to where they were placed and what they were adjacent to along with the fact that it unlike other SaGa games it was true to the more pen and paper roots of gaining experience, stats, or what have you after an adventure.
>>323422835 >No I'm saying SE still fucking makes unique JRPGs, why the fuck can't you read? Yeah no shit that's what he said. You're the one who got anally devastated about Legend of Mana for some reason.
>>323422995 No, because those games are all Square Soft games and two of them are long running franchises which are still getting games, and it's a shitpost by a Nostalgiafag trying to act as if Square Enix doesn't make unique games or try new things by ignoring TWEWY, Setsuna, SaGa Scarlet Grace and that SD5 has been said to be in development too
>>323423187 No, because those games are all Square Soft games and two of them are long running franchises which are still getting games What does that have to do with anything?
>and it's a shitpost by a Nostalgiafag trying to act as if Square Enix doesn't make unique games Where is this stated? All I see is >>323413071 listing SquareSoft classics, and >>323420671 saying Square deserves praise for trying unique things. Note the choice of words in the second post, "Square" not "SquareSoft"
>trying to act as if Square Enix doesn't make unique games or try new things by ignoring TWEWY, Setsuna, SaGa Scarlet Grace and that SD5 has been said to be in development too Give me a quote that says anything even REMOTELY close to that.
>>323423341 >>323423264 >imply >implied >imply >implied Stop that. No implications. You don't base an argument on what you think somebody implied, because that's an interpretation with no solid backing.
Show me where anyone fucking said that Square doesn't do new things. Show me one quote.
Stop acting like such a retard and think for a minute before you blather about implications.
>>323406191 Hey you know Life of Pi? The studio that made the tiger and all the special effects, AKA the studio that made it possible for that movie to exist went bankrupt because they had to put their own money in the end now look up how much money that movie has made.
>>323424178 >He listed SS games only as a jab to say that only SS did stuff like that and that SE doesn't anymore. Not a quote. Let's see the quote where somebody said that only SquareSoft made new and unique games and that SE doesn't.
You were asked to provide a quote to back your claims and yet you continue to restate your baseless interpretation.
If you can't provide proof of anyone saying what you're claiming they're saying, than maybe it's because nobody said that.
>>323424658 >The fact he only listed SS games was the jab you dense fuck. Not a quote. Last chance, pal.
And for the record, >>323420671 didn't list anything. Green text is for quoting, he merely quoted another anon's list of SquareSoft games.
See, you're using your baseless interpretations as concrete evidence. But you can't provide anything to prove what you're claiming. You don't get to base an argument on what you think somebody "implied."
>>323420671 Specifically said "Square" not "SquareSoft" and not "Square Enix", just the blanket statement still used today to describe the company.
So again, show me the quote. If you can't give me clear proof that anyone said Square Enix does not still make unique JRPGs, and your next post is just more "muh implications" and "muh jab" stupidity than I'm giving up.
>>323424058 >If they were doing shit and they knew they'd have to merge but that's not the case here. Isn't it? Who said it wasn't? I thought that the movie was just the straw that broke the camel's back, not the sudden blunder out of the blue. If that's wrong then my bad, but it's only a small part of the analogy, the core issue is: they merged to survive, whether they were planning it all along for whatever reason or not.
>>323425198 I just acknowledged that that part of the analogy didn't work, but the point is that the fact that the merging was a planned move for whatever reason doesn't change the fact that it ended up being what saved Square Enix from going down.
I guess that a heart transplant isn't something you'd plan beforehand if there were no problems and that's what ended up not working in my analogy, but the point is that it's what ultimately saved the patient, no matter for what reason it was initially planned.
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