What killed them?

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They seem to be getting better however.

they're doing just fine it seems.

>>323401593
The movie

>>323401978
This, that movie nearly killed the merger too.

>>323402195
The merger happened because of the movie.

>>323402314
They were in talks beforehand.

>>323401593
Giving nomura the reigns too early. Sakaguchi still had a few good ones in him. Look at lost odyssey.

>>323401593
Nothing. Square Enix is doing great right now in terms of financials, and Final Fantasy XV is shaping up to be a fantastic game and the most FF entry in the series for a long while.

>>323402473
Lost Odyssey is the epitome of mediocrity.

The best part of the game is the short stories and the rest is just whatever tier shit.

>>323402935
Square-Enix =/= Squaresoft.

>>323402314
>I don't know what I'm talking about
They were already talking with Enix about merging beforehand. The movie did so bad that it made Enix not want to go through with it and it wound up happening way later than they originally planned.

>>323402473
Also, what the hell does Nomura have to do with this? Sakaguchi fucked up with FFTSW.

SE seems to be the only company making JRPGs these days. Allah bless them.

>>323402473
>Sakaguchi still had a few good ones in him.
Yeah, like the Spirits Within!
They didn't give the reigns to Nomura soon enough.

>>323401593
FFX

seriously fuck that game and everything shitted out after

>>323401593
For me focusing on gackt, gackt like characters, fem boys, the AC movie. Fem boys. I understand who it was marketed for and everything but im still pissed off.

>>323402473

LO wasn't very good.

>>323403238

what the actual fuck were they thinking

>>323403238
Never seen this. Just how bad are we talking?

Fun fact: It wasn't a merger. Enix bought out Square, its name, its IPs, and it's employees and made them the face of the company because Enix was fading into obscurity.

>>323401593

Merging with Enix, Enix was their one main competitor and with them out of the way, SE can slack all they want.

DQ games are still up to par, FF have been all sorts of fucked aside from XII IZJS and Square abandoned all their RPG IPs previous to the merge.

https://youtu.be/xaI7ZPA9I1c

>that top comment

>>323405171
>>323403238

They were breaking new ground and aiming for photo realistic 3D. They were thinking they were making something on par with Akira that was going to be looked back as a groundbreaking achievement in animation. They thought the protagonist girl was going to be a "virtual actor" that would star in many upcoming films.

This was to be Anime 2.0

>>323401593
Spirits Within

>>323405256

It's not really awful. But it's really god damn boring. The pacing is slow, the story isn't that interesting and very little happens. The story is something about ghost aliens or something. I'm not even clear.

You will fall asleep during it.

>>323405171
>Hey


>Hey guys


>What if
>hold on

>What if

>What if we


>What if we
>We take Final Fantasy

>Our top-selling franchise right
>And we
>Get this
>We make a movie out of it?

>Huh ain't it great?

Enix.

>>323405365
>They thought the protagonist girl was going to be a "virtual actor" that would star in many upcoming films.

Did they achieve this with Lightning?

>>323405615
No

>>323405458

Making a Final Fantasy series movie is a great idea.

Spirits within is not a FF movie.

What they should have done is cel animated films and tv shows based on Final Fantasy.

Spirits Within is some slow paced Sci-fi film. It cost 137 million USD. Millennium Actress, a great looking 2D animated film came out the same year with a budget of 1.2 million.

FF9 and FFX. ffx lack of gameplay compared to the previous titles. ff9 wasnt great, it was a step backward from the fast paced action of ff8.

FFXI probably alienated half of the fan base. But ffxi was a really great mmo on launch.

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>>323405615
Yes. Lightning is the perfect woman. There is no human model that can compete with her.

This is the new beginning. She is the first Digital Sapien.

>>323403238

I watched the making of of this movie. All they talked about was how fucking flowing the hair is. how they animated every strand of the hair. the effects they made with the hair. That slow motion where aki ross' hair fell with too much focus on how the gravity falls it down. Why there were no other characters with hair in the movie.

>>323405698
>fast paced action of ff8
fucking lel

At some point around Parasite Eve 2 they realized that all they need to do to generate sales for their JRPG games is to insert a bunch of FMV shower scenes. It didn't take long after that for the entire genre to descend into bizarre niche fetish softporn.

It feels dirty playing a lot of modern JRPGs, they seem more like creepy waifu dating simulators than games. They're pretty clearly targeted to a very specific audience and the games aren't really accessible to anyone outside that audience. Once these guys stopped buying games, they tried pandering to other segments with games like Mindjack and that really didn't work out.

>>323403238
So how did this relate to the series at all? I have always been baffled by it. It just doesn't look like any Final Fantasy game so I never watched it. I watched the Mortal Kombat movies because it looked like god damn Mortal Kombat.

>>323405256
Movie itself is tolerable but it was a failed experiment that cost Square $98,000,000. This is not a loss anyone can walk away from easily, even a powerhouse like Square. It was Square that was in financial problems because their own fuck ups. The "forced merger" where "evil" Enix bought Square according to you is the only reason Square is still alive nowadays.

Also the drop in the quality of Final Fantasy series has to do with Yoichi Wada and Motomu Toriyama that both are Square's employees having nothing to do with Enix.
tl;dr: Square fucked their own shit up.

Finally the real tragedy is that Squaresoft's executives somehow managed kept their jobs. They seriously should have all been sacked after blundering their way towards bankruptcy.

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>>323405779
>this is what Toriyama actually believes

>>323401593
Thankfully SE are getting back on their feet - FFXV, KH III, FF VII R, Deu Sex, Tomb Raider, JUST Cause 3 all are good games and SE don't kill some of them just because they're not so much profitable.

>>323405809

That's what they focused on: just the tech. It was an animated film made as animation tech demos for 137 million dollars.

>>323405857

PE2 didn't sell well though.

>>323405975
/r/'ing HURTS MAH HANDS

>>323405975
DELETE THIS

>>323401593
Spirits within.

>>323405779
>>323405615
>>323405365

Lightning is the blandest most boring looking woman ever. Most of the JRPG girls are like that. Pretty but lifeless and generic.

>>323405829
>i never played ff8

ff9 was boring and slow for battles

All the talent left and now they just have hacks like Kitase and Nomura.

>>323406034
I swear, graphics will fucking kill a fucking dev studio one day.

>>323406154
And FFVIII was 3 times slower thanks to its retarded Draw system.

>>323406191

One can hope.

>>323406154
Don't bother with arguing with idiots; he is only going to reply with "you absolutely have draw 100 of every magic from every enemy in every fight"

>>323406154

Only reason it was slow is because SS fucked up loading screens

>>323406154
>I judge turn-based JRPGs based on how fast they go

>>323406315
Why are you talking to yourself?

>>323401593
I kind of want square to make a new Secret of Mana game but I'm also very worried they'll fuck it up if they do.

Although anything they do probably wouldn't be satisfactory for me and I'd be upset no matter what.

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>>323406169
Say that to my face not online see what happens

>>323406154
>>323406379

FF9 was fucking slow. Everything about the pacing. Just start up the game

>long cgi cut scene that has nothing to do with anything for a few minutes
>blah blah blah blah blah scenes
>pointless battle
>more blah blah blah
>more cgi
>play as vivi

etc

Very little actually happens. And the battles themselves include a long loading screen, the enemies slowly phasing into existance, slow atb bar, and frame rate that drops to single digits at times.

Play any of the older FF games for an hour, vs 1 hour of FF9. In 9 you will have barely gotten to the kidnapping sequence and left the city, vs. the older ones you've done multiple actual dungeons/missions.

>>323406169
Yes, Sakaguchi was some real talent who just made a blunder happen and proceeded to direct mediocre as fuck games and now does mobile shit while the hacks continued on making good games :-)

>>323406379
Emulating JRPGs at 300% speed can get very interesting.

>>323405320
>and Square abandoned all their RPG IPs previous to the merge.

FF says hi. Mana says hi. SaGa says hi. The Chrono rereleases say hi.

>>323406169
Whether or not you like Nomura's character designs he is practically the "old guard" of Square now; he's been there since 4. Other than the MMO team, he's all of the old Square that's left.

Wada is who you want. He got his shitstained fingers into FFXII, and demanded ladyboy as a main character, and demended Matsuno mainstream a game that he intended to ostensibly be a sequel to Vagrant Story. Matsuno resisted and left Squenix for "health reasons".

>>323406847

I said FF comes out still, mana I will give you, SaGa got the shaft for the most part and a re-release is not a new game.

>>323406671
I think you're confusing Final Fantasy with Sonic the Hedgehog.

>>323406850

What does Matsuno do now a days?

I check his twitter and he posts pics of his cat and talks to people in Japanese.

Why can't From or soemone hire him? He's a damn good writer.

>>323406947
Minstrel Song might as well be a new game because it implemented so many mechanics that came out after the original SNES release all the way up to Unlmited Saga with field skills.

>>323405320
>>323406947
KH was also a pre-merge title.

Drakengard would have not gotten a release in the EU most likely if they didn't merge, not to mention it would've most likely not gotten any sequels whatsoever.

Third Birthday was also a thing, but they lost the rights to use PE shit during it so that's why the story fucked up.

>>323406975
IX is awful slow and everyone knows that.

>>323407032

I was thinking after the PS2 SaGa games, my mistake. Isn't there an actual named SaGa game coming out this or next year?

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Seriously why does every goddamn thread where Final Fantasy series is even mentioned always devolve into shitflinging contest between FF8- and FF9fags?

>>323406671
this guy gets it.


ff8 remains underrated because within 10 minutes you are able to fight and play cards and break the game really well.

in comparison lets look at its book ends:
in ff7 you are flushed into the story and progress with little options. Its not until the near end of disk one you can really explore and do simple things.

ff9 doesnt let you have options until after lindblum exploration. That is around 3 hours from the start.

>>323406850
So is Kitase and so is Toriyama. They are all hacks.

>>323407164
>IX is awful slow and everyone knows that.

No, that's just your opinion. And it doesn't even make sense. Turn based RPGs are not based on speed.

>>323406947
>SaGa got the shaft for the most part

I wouldn't say that. It had a slow stream of games over the years.

>>323407167
Yeah, SaGa Scarlet Grace is suppose to come out in Japan sometime in 2016. Though that is about all I know of it. So little information has been released about it. There will probably some sort of new battle mechanics in this game since it will still have sparking but it won't be the main focus in battles.

>>323407164

KH being a pre-merge title makes sense, since every other KH arguably after 1 has been a mess.

Drakengard is such a niche title I am rather surprised they have gone as far as they have with it.

Third Birthday is some shit.

I should have also mentioned the Valkyie Profile for DS, but I have no idea how good it is.

>>323407371
nah, even square was considerate enough to allow you to control the speed of the battle towards the end of the playstation run.

>>323407398

Aren't most post PS2 SaGa games just under different names like Legend of Legacy?

>>323407164
>>323407434
Oh and let's not forget the fact that Valkyrie Profile was US only when Enix released it but with merger it got VP2 and some other games globally released.

Not to mention other Tri-Ace games including Phantasy Star which was also US only because of Enix.

> since every other KH arguably after 1 has been a mess.
Arguably you've fallen to the stupid "woah KH is such a mess because I only played 1 & 2"

>>323407371
First off, IX isn't turn-based, it's literally ACTIVE time battle.

Second, the battle loading screens take fucking forever and the game is so tedious to wade through.

>>323407552
>First off, IX isn't turn-based, it's literally ACTIVE time battle.
That's turn-based, genius.

>>323407543
No, there was only Unlimited Saga and Romancing SaGa Minstrel Song. Eventually they remade SaGa 2 and 3 for the DS in Japan only under those names with what ever subtitle tacked onto it. You must be thinking of The Last Remnant which is often cited as a spiritual successor to SaGa while Legend of Legacy which had a lot of people who worked on SaGa while still lacking the main man Kawazu.

>>323407690
Have you ever actually played a turn-based game?

1-3 and 10 are turnbased, rest are ATB which is NOT turn-based.

>>323407830
>>323407552

Fuck off FFXV-kun

>>323407830
lol yes it is. You're literally waiting your turn and characters attack in order.

>>323405320
SquareEnix barely qualifies as a merger.
Enix was the surviving company by essentially buying out Squaresoft by controlling a huge majority of the shares.

The reason SquareEnix is terrible now is because they became a giant megacorp that is the Japanese Equivalent of EA. The "Polymorphic content" strategy moved SquareEnix from a gamemaker to an multi-media company.

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>>323402195
strangely enough, another movie netted them a LOT of dosh.

>>323407990
Why does Tifa looks Asian here?

>>323407894
I mentioned no XV and somehow you're crying XV-kun.
Fuck off dumbass.

>>323407934
So you prove my point in never playing a turn-based game before.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_system

Give chess a timer for both players like Black can move every 10 seconds while White can move every 5 seconds and you've got yourself ATB, White can move twice for every one Black move.

That's not turn-based at all.

I don't think Squeenix is that bad now that the XIII trilogy is over.

I also think Capcom have been alright since the start of 2014.

>>323408190
Fuck off FFXV-kun

>>323408306
Barking up the wrong tree here, I'm not your boogyman.

>FFVIII and FFIX fags are arguing about their toys again
That's cute but I'll never understand why you fags spend so much time arguing about the two of the most mediocre FFs.

As for what this thread is actually about:
Square's gigantic fuck-up with their bs movie which in turn let in to financial problems is the main culpit here coupled with the fact there wasn't anyone directly competing with SE after the merger meaniong they could simply put out halfassed shit that sold with it's name alone instead of having to try to compete with someone with every game they put out. After all back in the day it was the competition between Enix and Square kept games from both companies great and led to many new innovations and IPs.

>>323408190
A "turn" in a final fantasy game refers to the characters acting in turn, just like how table-top RPGs act in turns based on dice rolls. It has no association with board games. You are the only person in the world that doesn't consider Final Fantasy to be turn-based.

>>323408413
Are you one of those retards who think that FFXII was good?

>>323408413
>>323408596
>liking things
ha ha fags I am a superior being who hates everything

>>323408190
>Give chess a timer for both players like Black can move every 10 seconds while White can move every 5 seconds and you've got yourself ATB, White can move twice for every one Black move.
That is turn based. Black cannot act until ten seconds has expired then he can take his turn to act while white can take two turns to blacks one turn.

Either way you are waiting to act unlike standard action games.

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>>323408542
>enemies are waiting until you will make your turn
turn-based
>enemies are not waiting for you
real-time

It's that simple, nigger.

>>323408542
Are you fucking dense? Did you read >>323408190
with your stupid "you're the only one in the world" bullshit?

FF1, 2, 3 and 10 are LITERALLY turn-based games, Rest FFs are ATB which is not the same as turn-based because if it were it would fucking be called turn-based but ATB is a whole fucking different entity.

>>323408687

Not him but you're retarded and trying to play semantics.

>>323408687
Are you fucking stupid? >>323408776

>>323408758
Incorrect. "real time" would be all characters using actions the moment of input.

>>323408776
>>323408894
Fuck off FFXV-kun

FFI is the worst because the original version is filled with bugs and the remakes of it made it too easy.
FFII is the worst because the execution of it's stat gaining system wasn't good.
FFIII is the worst because many jobs are shit and it has no save points in dungeons.
FFIV is the worst because it removed the ability to choose your party members and has absolutely no character customization either.
FFV is the worst because it barely has a plot and because many jobs are shit.
FFVI is the worst because it also has shitloads of bugs and too many playable characters for it's own good.
FFVII is the worst because it's graphics haven't aged well and because it popularized overly long attack animations and FMV cutscenes making them a norm in JRPGs.
FFVIII is the worst because it's an extension of everything wrong with FFVII and because the presentation of it's story.
FFIX is the worst because it's a failed attempt to combine the best aspects of past FFs making it a mess that doesn't know what it is trying to be.
FFX is the worst because it's linear as shit and has an unskippable FMV cutscene for every 5th step you take.
FFXII is the worst because it's story isn't particularly memorable and because it plays itself.
FFXIII is the worst because it's way too linear and because Toriyama literally tried to shoved his shitty waifu down everyones throats

tl;dr: Final Fantasy was shit before and after the merger so it wasn't the merger or your least favorite FF that killed SquareSoft.

>>323408776
They're all turn-based. ATB is just a system that determines the turns.

>>323408951
No wonder you people find KH too convulted to comprehend.

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>>323408651
>liking things
Have fun with that.

>>323409072
See >>323408758

Just fucking play some actual turn-based games before you spout stupid shit like how ATB is turn-based.

>>323408951
Characters in almost all games, both players and enemies, have cooldown period between their actions.

You can't do 10 attacks in one second in Devil May Cry even if you will hit a button 10 times.

>>323409167
You aren't forming a counterpoint. ATB is a system of determining turns. This isn't going to change no matter how many times you refer to your previous posts or tell me to fuck off.

>tfw I want to like FFXII because it has Minagawa's artstyle but Vaan is a piece of shit and I still wish Basch was the main character

Tactics ogre for the PSP is the pinnacle of RPGs anyways.

>>323409321
Fucking hell read >>323409232 too.

Turn-based is its own thing otherwise ATB would be called turn-based.

>>323409232
In Devil May Cry the monsters can attack you while you're attacking. They don't wait for you to attack then attack after you. AKA a turn.

>>323408894
But that is how turns work.

>>323409461
Wait, DMC is turn-based now too?

>>323409321
It's a cooldown system, nothing more. Time still goes on.

>>323409461
Exactly, DMC is the same as FFIX.

>>323409420
ATB is a type of turn-based system. As has already been stated numerous times.

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>>323401593

>>323409571
Ice Hockey is pretty much the best turn-based sport. Who has the puck determines whose turn it is to attack and whose to defend!

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I am glad we finally have this settled. Devil May Cry is a turn based game just like Dragon Quest.

>>323408596
It was good though.

>>323409524
It's not just a "cooldown" system. It's a system for determining which turn characters attack in. Nobody attacks at the same time.

>>323409741
Just like in football!

Turn-based as fuck senpai.

>>323409741
I've played through DMC3 many times and I don't remember a single case of Dante and enemy attacking each other at the same time.

Since we are talking about turn based games what are some classic ones that you like? Personally I like Galaga.

>>323409880
In DMC3 enemies can attack you while you are engaging in attacks, yes.

>>323406263
You only ever used draw if you were a retard or a plebian.

>>323409985
Space Invaders.

>>323409985
Mega Man is my favorite turn based game.

>>323401593
The merger with Enix

>>323410028
>if u didn't read a cheat guide b4 playing FFVIII ur a dumb

Common argument of FFVIII fanboys

>>323401978
FMA? I didn't even know Square Enix had anything to do with that until now.

>>323406520
The secret of mana games have been in the dumpster of a long time.

Legend of mana was technically 'good', but it was very niche and didn't offer the experience that many were looking for from the franchise. Even Seiken Densetsu 3, one of the most popular games in the franchise felt extremely wildly off on a different tangent compared to Secret of Mana.

They then shit out a bunch of bad followups and spinoffs, culminating in "Dawn of Mana" which people were EXTREMELY excited about as it was the official next entry... and it was fucking awful. Like next to unplayable garbage. It became some sort of shitty stage-based thing, you had to try and work a 'whip' to manipulate objects in a very, very bad 'action' platformer. Oh and you lost your levels at the end of every stage. Combat was retarded, gamplay was retarded, story was retarded. The only good thing was the cutscene at the beginning.

>>323401593
censoring games

>>323405320
>Square abandoned all their RPG IPs previous to the merge.
No they didn't

SaGa, Mana, KH are still getting new games, a new Front Mission is confirmed in development and they've only made some new IPs since, like TWEWY, Setsuna

IPs like Chrono, PE and Musashi already ended and wrapped up, they were never long running series but instead a single self contained game that had a sequel.

Setsuna is a Chrono game in everything but name

>>323401593
>ctrl-f "Enix"
>22 results, but only like 10 actually explaining how fucking Enix and Square together ruined everything.

>>323406169
This meme still happening?

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>>323410028
>B-but you absolutely have draw 100 of every magic from every enemy in every fight as /v/ and Spoony told me so!
>B-but refining shit into magic takes even more time because you have to spend hour playing that shitty card game (which is btw is shit because I suck at it) as you obviously cannot refine anything but cards to magic like those useless items in your inventory!
>B-but the Card command is worthless because I'm too dumb to figure out it only works on enemies who are low on HP!

Seriously don't bother arguing with these idiots it's not worth it and you are only going to get replies like these.

Monolith Soft killed them.

>>323408306
That isn't XV-kun

>>323401593

Nothing, Square is doing just fine.

>>323410721
Are you XV-kun?

>>323410164
No, it was actually pretty fucking intuitive if you had any idea of how to function as a human being.

"Do i spend alllllllll this time to draw 100 items from this enemy.... or do I just convert 5 abyss worm cards into items and then into 100 tornados?".

No one said you had to figure it out in the first 5 minutes of gameplay, all they said was that you should have figured it out.

>>323410793
Yes

>>323410845
But that's impossible because I'm XV-kun!

>>323410908
Aren't we all just XV-kun deep down?

>>323410845
>>323410908
>>323410994
But I'm S̶p̶a̶r̶t̶a̶c̶u̶s̶!̶ I mean XV-kun!

>>323409671
>Who has the puck determines whose turn it is to attack and whose to defend!

What a shitty analogy.
Does the opposing team have to stop whatever they're doing until they are ready to move just because they didn't hold the puck?

>>323410708
who?

>>323409880
That's the whole point of royal release

>>323410665
Nigger, you know that because you've played 8 for so long. In Legend Of Legaia you can get 2 point cards at specific times and places, one to deal point damage and one to unlock hidden store items. You have to use a guide or play through a shitload of times to know this, as no one who is starting blind can have a good chance of finding those cards. It's the same shit as you knowing your shit in FF8. It's not intuitive, nor easy to see such game-breaking shit unless you're a seasoned player or you're using a guide.

So, suck a dick.

>>323410270
FF: Spirits Within

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>>323408991
kinda true rfor most part

true golden Squaresoft classics being

saga frointier
Chrono trigger
Legend of mana
Vagrant Story

>>323405914
Has as much to do with FF as the first SaGa game aka Final Fantasy Legend; a name slapped onto something completely unrelated with the hope of making a buck.

You think Spirits Within bombed hard? It's already the literally who of movies and would have done even worse (if you can imagine that) without the FF name.

>>323401738
>>323409621

This fag. Soon as he came in shit hit the fan. Soon as he left shit started shaping up again.

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>>323409365
TO ... really want to check it out

can you get it for vita download?

>>323412980
Except that I figured all of that out by myself by actually taking a look at the information section inside the menu screen and by experimenting with all the new skills and abilities after learning them in 1999. Also get this: I didn't have internets or guides telling me how to do shit back then so I had to figure it out on my own.

Go climb a wall of dicks yourself.

>>323413334
Yes

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>>323401593
A combination of mismanagement and not keeping up with the times.

In the 8-16 bit eras, if you wanted a game with a story, or a game where you had the freedom to explore a world at your own pace with some degree of customization, you played a JRPG. And Square specialized in JRPGS.

But then developers starting adding "RPG elements" to their games. Customization, stats, etc. Story in games also became more sophisticated, plots became more than just a paragraph in the manual. And then open world games came into vogue and suddenly everything that used to be unique to JRPGS is suddenly standard everywhere, while JRPGS retained all of their negative aspects like grinding and unskippable cutscenes before boss fights.

The genre and developers that specialize in it just never caught up.

>>323401593
Enix was superior in every way.
They knew this, which is why they had to merge with them to save their own mediocre asses.

>>323401593
The movie and Enix

>>323407543
Legend of legacy was Furyu

>>323407552
>Not to mention other Tri-Ace games including Phantasy Star

Phantasy star is not tri-Ace son.

>>323414104
>and Enix

Enix had nothing to do with SE going retarded.

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I just want a good Musashi game.

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>People think Squaresoft still exists.

>>323414460
if anything enix never dropped quality in their rpgs while square kept shitting on FF and sinking it down more and more

>>323415010
Enix was a publisher with no in-house development team. There's no such thing as "their" RPGs.

>>323415126
Enix didn't just hire a team and say "go make something please" either. They were pretty unique as far as publishers in Japan go.

>>323415126
well they just made sure that Dragon Quest didn't drop in quality. Chunsoft left and now it's level 5 but the direction of the games is still good.
Can't say the same about Square RPGs

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>>323402935
>cars and trailers instead of airships and chocobos
>trailer trash whores instead of classy European caucasian women
>asian men in tuxedos instead of European knights or suspiciously white looking ninjas
Well yeah, it's like VII or VIII I guess, but it really doesn't remind me of Nintendo Era FF

>>323403476
But Square didn't work on it. While some of the Square bigwigs worked on some parts of it, I'm sure they hired a different set of Chinese sweatshop workers to program it.

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>>323415346
>cars and trailers instead of airships and chocobos
But XV has airships and chocobos, and FF7 and FF8 had cars too

>trailer trash whores instead of classy European caucasian women
But it has Luna, Gentiana and others who are classy women in elegant dresses and high class noblewomen

Cidney is based on a southern american hickville woman because she's from a hickville place

All the other women we've seen are high class noble women, and there is also the Dragoon woman

>asian men in tuxedos instead of European knights or suspiciously white looking ninjas
But the characters are in medieval knight armor as a direct contrast to the characters in modern suits

You do realize all the things you just tried to say aren't in XV are in XV as major elements, right?

>>323415591
HE'S HERE

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>>323415842
>Someone says something retarded
>Gets corrected
>OH MY GOD LE MEME

>>323415346
hope you think about suicide all week

>>323415346
it's not nintendo era it was sakaguchi who was the only director with good taste at square, as soon as nomura took over it became an emo shitfest
this is why IX was the only good one in the PS1 era, because it was the last one where sakaguchi was somewhat involved again

>>323415346
>airships and chocobos
>classy European caucasian women
>European knights

All of these are in XV tho

Square was never particularly good. Fuck them for ruining Enix.

>>323416981
FF9 is more emo and a bigger edge lord shitfest than any other FF, seriously Zidane has a massive emo streak second half of the game and Kuja and Amaranth are the biggest edgelords in FF ever

Sakaguchi did barely on FF beyond FF5 and he was responsible for FF2 too and only otherwise did the base story in FF9 which is one of the worst FF stories ever

All the good thigns about FF5, 6, 7 etc were from Nomura because he created the characters, designs, monsters, summons and was directly involved in FF7s story writing, world and characters

FF9 is one of the worst FFs ever because it desperately tries to be classic yet fails on all aspects that the older FFs succeeded in while it's a furfag pandering trash game in the process

>>323418472
>seriously Zidane has a massive emo streak second half of the game

You mean for literally 5 minutes

>>323418849
>literally
can you prove it?

>>323405256
It grossed like shit because it wasn't Final Fantasy 7 the movie

itself it wasn't horrible

>>323418932
It lasts as long as Garland's reveal to you and until you kick garland's ass a few screens away. Perhaps if you'd played the game you would remember this.

I love all of them, I have both V and VII as favorites followed by VI

>Today, in "obvious questions that have already been answered years and years ago"

More importantly, when are they finally porting Final Fantasy Tactics to PC? It's already on smartphones, it shouldn't take that long.

>>323419320
today in why do you post if you don't like the thread

>>323419443
It's not a matter of not liking the thread, it's literally useless.
Do I need to explain to you why it's a good thing to point out when something is wrong or useless?

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Final Fantasy, funnily enough. It was Square's own Pandora's Box.

It brought the company back from the brink, and turned them into an industry powerhouse. But it consumed them, until they lost everything that made them so beloved in the first place.

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>>323405975

>>323419742
>Final Fantasy, funnily enough. It was Square's own Pandora's Box.
This sounds like it came straight out of a shitty JRPG.
When the fuck did Pandora's box EVER do anything you described? If you really wanted to sound like a pretentious retard you could have made a comparison with Icarus' wax wings or shit like that.

When will this emo FF protagonist meme end? None of them are even close to being emo. Not even Squall.

>>323403238
>make a big deal about Spirits Within
>Advent Children didn't even get theatrical release

Whoever made those two decisions fucked up big time.

>>323420346
It did in Japan

>>323420320

Squall on the contrary was the only one in the game that was fitted for his job and did it impecably, the rest in VIII were whiny bitches.

>>323401593
As much as people like to blame the merger and movie blunder, you also can't ignore JRPGs have pretty much been in a weaker position compared to SNES and PS1 heyday. PS2 era already saw the creep of ever increasing budgets while JRPG earnings didn't go up, unless you were FF or DQ which always rake in cash. Market simply changed and JRPGs didn't take to it that well.

>>323415227
explain?

>>323420590
He's talking out of his like just like all enix shitters, they were just publishers who owned various IPs and didn't actually make games, every enix game was made from an external studios.

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>>323413071
>saga frointier
>Chrono trigger
>Legend of mana
>Vagrant Story

If there's one thing I'll never blame Square for it's them playing it safe because they never were afraid to try something new.

>>323420479
He also had good reasons for being distant from people and he didn't sugar coat shit.

After seifer's 'death' everyone else is going "oh no he wasn't really a bad dude" squall mans up and calls them all assholes while ultimately saying seifer was a dickhead and made everyone's lives more difficult.

>>323420671
TWEWY
Setsuna

>legend of mana
This was a sequel in a long established franchise, one which is still getting games

>>saga frointier
This franchise is also still getting games.

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>>323415591
You'll wish I was there when FF15 bombs, anon. Mark my words.

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>>323420220
But I don't think Square flew too close to the sun. I think Final Fantasy was an innocent attempt to save the company, and for a while might have been a project done out of passion.

But in the end it brought out all the evils of soulless corporate greed, and consumed Square completely.

Do your research on Pandora's Box.

If you thought my post sounded like a melodramatic JRPG plot, then you caught what I was intending at least.

>>323420671
Because they were always a JRPG titan that could afford it. Hell, FF series itself could be used as an example of innovation and variation, sometimes just for the sake of it, while staying true to series themes they established previously.

>>323420848
>XV
>bomb

>XV demo has already sold over 1 million which is more than FF7s demo that did 700k

>XV is on PS4 which has a higher install base than both PS2 and PS3 did when the first mainline FF for those respective gens were released

>XV also has 10 years of hype backing it and once they give out the release date in March and start showing more new trailers the hype will only increase

It will be a guaranteed 5 million minimum and will also do better than FF13 did.

FFVIIIfags are mad as fuck no one likes their game while FFVI & FFIX are widely loved & praised

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>>323420761
>This was a sequel in a long established franchise, one which is still getting games
If you don't think Legend of Mana did something incredibly unique and new, than you must have never played it.

But that's okay! You can go play it now and experience the magic, because nothing quite like it has been released since. So it's uniqueness is still unique.

It's a great game, seriously. Go play it.

>>323420927
But that still doesn't apply because FF still sells gangbusters.

>>323421063
>If you don't think Legend of Mana did something incredibly unique and new, than you must have never played it.
It was a sequel to an established franchise, not a new IP, and Mana games are still being made.

You tried to include it with one off games but that isn't how it works, Mana and SaGa both are still getting games

Chrono Trigger and Vagrant Story were one off things yes, CT had a sort of sequel with Chrono Cross, but Setsuna itselfis a spiritual successor to CT even using the same battle system and heavily inspired by CT, and TWEWY was god tier even more than Vagrant Story was

>>323420927
>Daedalus makes the wax wings to escape the dungeon with his son
>Square makes Final Fantasy as a last attempt to save the company

>Icarus flies too close to the sun and dies
>Square bets everything on a movie and goes down
Here's your spoonful.

>Do your research on Pandora's Box.
You make apt comparisons, and also do your research instead of making stupid pretentious weak analogies and quoting Wikipedia.
Pandora's Box was opened due to curiosity, which to quote your own post has nothing to do with "an innocent attempt to save the company".
Also opening Pandora's box only unleashed pain and misery onto the world, while the existence of Final Fantasy brought a lot of good quality videogames that people loved.

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>>323421249
First off, I'm not the guy you initially replied to. I'm just calling you out for saying Legend of Mana wasn't something.

Again, if you never played the game than I can understand how you might not know. But Legend of Mana was an incredibly unique game that took a huge risk, and got a lot of flak for it.

It did something no previous JRPG had tried, and none since have tried either. That includes the other Mana games.

>>323401593
merging
To prove I'm a real gamer, I always mention the fact I know that they were at one point called "Squaresoft" and my favorite games all try to reflect that knowledge.

>>323421341
>Here's your spoonful.
Yeah, if you want to go the movie route. But I don't think that killed the company.

>stupid pretentious weak analogies and quoting Wikipedia.
The analogy isn't weak if you base it solely off of the modern saying regarding Pandora's box.

If you want to argue semantics about the Mythological lore behind Pandora's box, and Pandora's actually reasons for opening the box, then maybe you're being the pretentious one.

All in all, buddy, calm down.

>>323421651
I know it was different from other Mana games but that isn't the point, the point is that it is still a Mana game, and that guy listed four games as if to say SE doesn't take risks or do one off games or that thos things all ended, yet TWEWY exists, Setsuna exists, SaGa Scarlet Grace exists, Seiken Densetsu/Mana 5 is said by SD devs to in development but its yet to be officially revealed

>>323421249
>Seiken Densetsu
>Seiken Densetsu 2
>Seiken Densetsu 3
>LEGEND OF MANA (that's even the name in Japanese
>completely different mechanics to the previous games, only thing they have in common are the genre (ARPG)
>i-it's a sequel!
I just randomly stumbled upon this post on the frontpage and nigga you dumb as hell.

>>323401593
time. people left, management changed, business tactics changed. its all due to the flow of time

>>323421779
>Merging made them bad
Such a shitty meme.

Then again
>I always mention the fact I know that they were at one point called "Squaresoft"
WOW BRAVO THAT'S AMAZING

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>>323421816
No, in >>323420671 he said
>If there's one thing I'll never blame Square for it's them playing it safe because they never were afraid to try something new.
He never said new IP, just something new. As in unique. As in Legend of Mana.

They took a risk with Legend of Mana, a risk that sadly didn't seem to go in their favour too. It was a very new idea for a sequel, when it didn't at all have to be.

If you honestly think Legend of Mana didn't do something incredibly new simply because it's part of a franchise than again, you've never played it.

>>323421854
It's called Seiken Densetsu: Legend of Mana in Japan, it is still a sequel just as much as Children of Mana and Heroes of Mana are even though they are both also called Seiken Densetsu DS: Children of Mana and Seiken Densetsu: Heroes of Mana in Japan, none of the SD games are directly connected to one another anyway so they can call them whatever they want.

>>323420590
Yuji Horii and armor project are in charge of every dragon quest title. They hire outsourced companies for the programming and graphics but they are still the ones in charge of everything.

It's similar to when a dev studio is actually owned by a publisher, but Enix never went so far as to buy studios out even though they definitely could have afforded it. Even as SE the only studios they've bought were western ones. In Japan they'll still hire out third parties for various games like tri-Ace.

>>323422039
Sorry but TWEWY is the most unique JRPG to ever exist and it was a completely new IP too.

I have played Legend of Mana, I'm not saying anything about it not doing anything new, learn to read, I'm saying LoM is still a fucking Mana game and Mana games are still being made, and both Children and Heroes of Mana tried different things too

>>323421341
>Also opening Pandora's box only unleashed pain and misery onto the world, while the existence of Final Fantasy brought a lot of good quality videogames that people loved.
See >>323408991
Just because tasteless wretches enjoyed watching Square disembowel itself for the mediocre Final Fantasy series and destroy every good thing it had, doesn't mean it doesn't count as unleashing pain and misery.

spirits within and the merger with enix. which is odd, because enix and square were both good companies before the merger

There is absolutely no reason for Squaresoft to exist while Dragon Quest does.

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>>323403238
>2001

Jesus

>>323421806
>Yeah, if you want to go the movie route. But I don't think that killed the company.
Square made the movie.
The movie flopped.
Sakaguchi stepped down from his position and took his money with him.
Square had to merge with Enix to survive.
It's not a theory, this is literally what happened.
>Do your research

>The analogy isn't weak if you base it solely off of the modern saying regarding Pandora's box.
Yes it is weak, especially if you base it on that.
All the "detrimental and far-reaching consequences" came from how Final Fantasy was mismanaged AFTER it had been created, not by its creation itself.

> If you want to argue semantics about the Mythological lore behind Pandora's box, and Pandora's actually reasons for opening the box, then maybe you're being the pretentious one.
OH MY GOD MY COMPARISON WAS SO STUPID AND WEAK I HAVE TO DEFLECT AS HARD AS I CAN
WHAT DOES SEMANTICS EVEN MEAN? WHO CARES, THAT'S A WORD PEOPLE USE WHEN THEY TRY TO PROVE OTHER PEOPLE WRONG RIGHT?
>All in all, buddy, calm down.
THERE, THAT SHOULD HELP TOO

>>323422339
They were still good after it, stop being stupid.

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>>323401593
would you ?

>>323404314
this. X was beginning of the end. XII a short flicker of hope and now FF is dead in the water

>>323422408
>Square had to merge with Enix to survive.

See >>323403926

>>323422412
early post-merger SE was terrible mate. they're picking it up lately

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>>323422250
Square has plenty of unique RPG's even within their own series.

>>323422420
I don't think you know what you're saying.

>>323422475
How so? They made several games release globally and made many good games.

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>>323422250
>Sorry but TWEWY is the most unique JRPG to ever exist and it was a completely new IP too.
So? What does this have to do with Legend of Mana? Are you saying that because a more unique JRPG exists, all other unique JRPGs before it do not count as unique?

>I'm saying LoM is still a fucking Mana game and Mana games are still being made
Nobody is denying this. But how does this have any bearing on whether or not Legend of Mana can be praised for it's uniqueness?

>Children and Heroes of Mana tried different things too
Children is a top down co-op dungeon crawler, and Heroes is an SRPG. They did something new within the franchise yeah. But again, Legend of Mana did something new that no other JRPG before or after has attempted.

Only reason I've avoided saying what the most unique part of Legend of Mana is, is because I don't think you actually know it. I want you to explain it to me, and then tell me how that doesn't make it worthy of being praised for trying something new.

>>323413071

>saga frontier
never played it
>chrono trigger
good game
>legend of mana
secret of evermore was better
>vagrant story
why do people suck this game's cock so much? I played it and beat it. it wasnt that special. the story was retarded...if you would even consider it a "story" with out little story telling that went on

>>323422471
How does that change
>Square had to merge with Enix to survive
exactly?

Also even though I put it there the point is still that the movie killed them, so even if that sentence is wrong the rest of what I was saying still stands.

>>323422486
Unlimited isn't that special. Kawazu always had a unique approach and liked to aim for things closer to pen and paper style games.

In the older SaGas he went with the freedom of creating your party and building them as you want
Then he went with multiple story paths, so its like multiple DM designs.
Unlimited was just the final step by making the exploration an actual board and adding field skills.

Tetsuya Nomura

>>323422560
well first thing that comes to mind is FFX. you can't imagine how alienated i felt as an "older" FF fan. it was pretty yes, but
>no worldmap
and
>airship is just a menu screen
compeletly killed it for me. 12 took a step back into the right direction, but then came 13. and looking at 15, i'm not very optimistic either with their ARPG sheningans

>>323422671
Because they were ALREADY PLANNING MERGING rather than movie forcing them to do so?

>>323422705
Good meme senpai.

>>323422705
Yoichi Wada

>>323422606
>Are you saying that because a more unique JRPG exists, all other unique JRPGs before it do not count as unique?

No I'm saying SE still fucking makes unique JRPGs, why the fuck can't you read?

>But how does this have any bearing on whether or not Legend of Mana can be praised for it's uniqueness?
Stop sperging out for a second and actually fucking read what is being said to you, no one said anything about LoM not trying something new or that it shouldn't be praised, the point is that you listed only Squaresoft game as if SE doesn't still make unique games, and also ignored that both of the DS Mana games did new things for Mana too.

Having different areas and game progression be created from different paths really doesn't matter, no one is arguing LoMs quality or what it did new here you illiterate fuck

>>323422723
>Muh world map

The world maps were pretty barren with just few completely optional places and it was otherwise just a linear experience all the way through.

The whole series has always evolved from the previous entry and as such you shouldn't look ARPG as the worst thing ever.

>>323422628

oops, nigger thought you meant secret of mana, secret of evermore is still better queer.

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>>323422705
Nomura was and still is one of the best things to ever happen to the company.

Not like you know who he is beyond your memes anyway.

>>323422837
i liked exploring myself, instead of clicking on a list and fly there. excuse me. they're just points that bother me and mark my downfall of SE. you don't have to agree, but to me, SE died with the merger

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>>323422250
>>323422606
Ohhh, wait. I think I get it now. You're angry that >>323420671 didn't include TWEWY in his post when describing unique RPGs.

Oh, man. Man this is silly. Okay. So >>323420671
was replying to >>323413071 who posted a list of what he felt were Squaresoft's classics. And then >>323420671 quoted that list, and in response to it stated that he'll never blame Square for being afraid to try new things. He also posted a picture of Parasite Eve, another very unique Square game.

He wasn't saying those were the only unique games that Square ever made, or that they were the most unique. He was just quoting a list and then giving Square credit that they do absolutely deserve.

And then you got extremely butthurt about how he didn't include TWEWY in his post because, well. I guess because you're a fucking idiot.

>>323422736
>Because they were ALREADY PLANNING MERGING rather than movie forcing them to do so?
"I need to do X in order to survive" doesn't change if you were planning to do it all along for different (or weaker) reasons.

If you need a heart transplant in five months because of your health and somebody shoots you in the chest you'll need the heart transplant to survive more than anything, won't you?

>>323422723
>and looking at 15
15 is bringing back the full world map now at a 1:1 scale, and pilotable airships

>>323422690
Even then the character development was different from the other SaGa games with the skill panels and how it affected your stats to where they were placed and what they were adjacent to along with the fact that it unlike other SaGa games it was true to the more pen and paper roots of gaining experience, stats, or what have you after an adventure.

>>323422835
>No I'm saying SE still fucking makes unique JRPGs, why the fuck can't you read?
Not only did you never once say that, but nobody ever said anything to contradict it.

>>323422943
>Exploring when there's pretty much nothing to explore

It's just like Just Cause, the map is big but there's fuck all to do in it.

> you don't have to agree, but to me, SE died with the merger
X was released before the merger.

>>323423019
That's one shitty analogy.

>>323422835
>No I'm saying SE still fucking makes unique JRPGs, why the fuck can't you read?
Yeah no shit that's what he said. You're the one who got anally devastated about Legend of Mana for some reason.

>>323422995
No, because those games are all Square Soft games and two of them are long running franchises which are still getting games, and it's a shitpost by a Nostalgiafag trying to act as if Square Enix doesn't make unique games or try new things by ignoring TWEWY, Setsuna, SaGa Scarlet Grace and that SD5 has been said to be in development too

>>323423064
That is what I implied here >>323420761
>>323421249

>>323422705
>"FF protagonists are emo" meme
>Nomura meme
Why is every Final Fantasy discussion on the internet done purely in meme form?

>>323423163
Why can't you read? The guy listed SquareSoft games as if to imply SE doesn't still make Mana or SaGa games or even new one off games.

>>323405779
Her hair is totally shit, and most trapfags from here on /v/ can do her figure better than she can.

>>323423142
Thank for your input. If you have any actual argument please let me know.

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>>323423187
No, because those games are all Square Soft games and two of them are long running franchises which are still getting games
What does that have to do with anything?

>and it's a shitpost by a Nostalgiafag trying to act as if Square Enix doesn't make unique games
Where is this stated? All I see is >>323413071
listing SquareSoft classics, and >>323420671
saying Square deserves praise for trying unique things. Note the choice of words in the second post, "Square" not "SquareSoft"

>trying to act as if Square Enix doesn't make unique games or try new things by ignoring TWEWY, Setsuna, SaGa Scarlet Grace and that SD5 has been said to be in development too
Give me a quote that says anything even REMOTELY close to that.

>>323423341
>>323423264
>imply
>implied
>imply
>implied
Stop that. No implications. You don't base an argument on what you think somebody implied, because that's an interpretation with no solid backing.

Show me where anyone fucking said that Square doesn't do new things. Show me one quote.

Stop acting like such a retard and think for a minute before you blather about implications.

>>323423027
>pilotable airships
source
but even if that's true, it is still a fucking no-skill button masher arpg

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>>323423187
>>323423579
Hell, actually. Parasite Eve is a fucking Square Enix game, so double fuck you. You stupid retard.

>>323423579
>What does that have to do with anything?
It has to do with your implication that only SquareSoft made new and unique games and that SE doesn't

Do you not notice that those are all SquareSoft games which he only listed to make a jab against SquareEnix?

>>323423592
It has more skill involved than most Action RPGs, since it now has manual weapon switching and proper parries, combos, aerial combat, breaking enemy body parts and a ton of other shit

Airships were confirmed last year they even brought in Avalanche to help them with Airships and verticality in an open world, because they want airships in XV to fly like planes do in Just Cause

http://www.siliconera.com/2015/08/07/final-fantasy-xv-are-collaborating-with-just-cause-developers-for-flight-capabilities/

>>323423698
>implication
>implication
>implication
You did it again.

Show me the fucking quote where anybody says Square Enix doesn't make unique games.

>>323422414
Nah. She kinda looks like my sister.

>>323423837
The fact that only SS games were listed, it was a jab, I guess you aren't all that bright.

>>323423917
>The fact that only SS games were listed
So we're back to >>323422995
You're anally ravaged that your favourite unique Square game wasn't included in the list.

>>323420671
Was literally quoting a short list of games specifically stated to be SquareSoft games. Why would Square Enix games be listed among them?

How stupid are you?

>>323423425
If you already knew your heart is failing and you need it it's entirely different from company merging despite the fact that they're doing WELL.

If they were doing shit and they knew they'd have to merge but that's not the case here.

>>323424037
No, again see >>323423187

He listed SS games only as a jab to say that only SS did stuff like that and that SE doesn't anymore.

>>323406191
Hey you know Life of Pi? The studio that made the tiger and all the special effects, AKA the studio that made it possible for that movie to exist went bankrupt because they had to put their own money in the end now look up how much money that movie has made.

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>>323424178
>He listed SS games only as a jab to say that only SS did stuff like that and that SE doesn't anymore.
Not a quote. Let's see the quote where somebody said that only SquareSoft made new and unique games and that SE doesn't.

You were asked to provide a quote to back your claims and yet you continue to restate your baseless interpretation.

If you can't provide proof of anyone saying what you're claiming they're saying, than maybe it's because nobody said that.

>>323406191
it almost got crytek

>>323424396
The fact he only listed SS games was the jab you dense fuck.

>>323422897
People tend to forget he was a monster designer as well as character designer. I think he is a good artist in any right.

>>323412771
The true gods of JRPGs

>>323424658
>The fact he only listed SS games was the jab you dense fuck.
Not a quote. Last chance, pal.

And for the record, >>323420671 didn't list anything. Green text is for quoting, he merely quoted another anon's list of SquareSoft games.

See, you're using your baseless interpretations as concrete evidence. But you can't provide anything to prove what you're claiming. You don't get to base an argument on what you think somebody "implied."

>>323420671
Specifically said "Square" not "SquareSoft" and not "Square Enix", just the blanket statement still used today to describe the company.

So again, show me the quote. If you can't give me clear proof that anyone said Square Enix does not still make unique JRPGs, and your next post is just more "muh implications" and "muh jab" stupidity than I'm giving up.

>>323424947

>>323424658

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101KB, 802x601px

>>323406263
Holy shit, these are the kinds of people who criticize VIII. Are you mentally disabled?

>>323424770
They're mediocre at best.

>>323424058
>If they were doing shit and they knew they'd have to merge but that's not the case here.
Isn't it? Who said it wasn't? I thought that the movie was just the straw that broke the camel's back, not the sudden blunder out of the blue. If that's wrong then my bad, but it's only a small part of the analogy, the core issue is: they merged to survive, whether they were planning it all along for whatever reason or not.

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2MB, 300x277px

>>323425006
So you have no proof, and you're conceding to being mentally ill. Alright then, thanks for playing.

>>323424658
>why didn't you list square enix games in a square soft classics list
Are you baka?

>>323425092

>>323425006

>>323425085
>but it's only a small part of the analogy
Your analogy relies on them doing badly in the first place. Both of the companies were printing money with their flagship titles back then.

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982KB, 280x218px

>>323425171

>>323425198
Also, Enix wanted merger to get their titles and other titles release globally and get more marketing behind them outside Japan.

>>323424658
>The fact he only listed SS games

>>323413071
>true golden Squaresoft classics being
>Squaresoft

waah waaah he only listed squaresoft games

>>323425198
I just acknowledged that that part of the analogy didn't work, but the point is that the fact that the merging was a planned move for whatever reason doesn't change the fact that it ended up being what saved Square Enix from going down.

I guess that a heart transplant isn't something you'd plan beforehand if there were no problems and that's what ended up not working in my analogy, but the point is that it's what ultimately saved the patient, no matter for what reason it was initially planned.

>>323425540
> saved Square Enix
Fuck, I meant Soft.

>>323425540
See >>323425291

>>323425605
Oh my god, are you even reading at all? THE POINT IS WHETHER THE MERGER SAVED SQUARESOFT OR NOT, NOT WHY.

>>323401593
Not a single square in the company logo.
Who would ever trust them?

>>323425092
i hate her mouth

>>323426468
You'll never get anywhere near it anyways, so who cares?

>>323426320
That triangle is actually a square. You're the 4th right angle, anon.

>>323426735
yes and? that mouth irritates me

i should call my lawyer