>>323229878 i bought it used and i thought the disc was broken or something because the whole thing was laggy and stuttery and very clunky in general, as a kid that made me hate myself thinking i was that bad at video games, but to be fair, i liked shadow's levels.
>>323232464 my PS2 is dead, i would replay it if i could So what in your opinion is actually wrong with Sonic Heroes? It sure isn't a masterpiece, i'm not arguing that, but i don't think it deserves as much hate as it gets usually. Also i liked the music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnOtW_yMmzo
>>323233162 I see, fair argument, but i think picking different teams and completing stages with them actually offered a more of a replayability value, and if i remember right some bits are different for each of the teams. But i agree, the true ending should've been easier to unlock, collecting the emralds was a joke too.
>>323233926 How cool would it be to have bigger, more expansive levels to rush through with Sonic, fly over with Tails and climb all over with Knuckles, looking for hidden junk? I suppose we'll have to settle for Generations and Lost World mods.
>>323235543 Yeah, but we already know that. Can you think of anything else to enjoy about the game? To me, I actually enjoy the level design. The game engine does not at all compliment the levels at all, but playing the Generations mods really let the level design shine.
>>323235694 They are, but there's only so much you can do with character mods. They'll never be more than model, animation and sound effect swaps with some minor physics tweaks. You can pretend you're actually playing as Tails and Knuckles all you like, but you're not.
>>323236052 The level design is objectively bad tho. On average there's at least a couple of booster pads that will either boost you into a wall, into a group of enemies or into a bottomless pit. Not to mention enemies you can't possibly avoid.
>>323236602 Well, the Boost Pads into walls is mostly the game engine's folly, I think. The Boost Pads' placements are meant to get you on track, but the fact that the 06 engine makes you tumble, or stop entirely if you so much as stub your toe while going "fast," (a term I use loosely when referring to this game) causes the problem you speak of if I'm understanding you correctly.
The enemy placement, though, yeah. I can agree with you there. I suppose I like the level design more because it's at least more open than Unleashed, or Generations.
I think the older games, I'm gonna get flak for this, or not, but the 2D 1,2,3, and CD are really good, the 3D games are ok, but it went from kinda childish but Kawaii in a way to shit, shit, and shit. 06 (which is presented) Is shit, and the community is something I've been trying to get away from.
>>323229878 I have some fondness for it, but that's all nostalgia from the weekend me and my friend rented it when it came out and marathoned it on his 360. It was a terrible game, but the experience is something I look back fondly on.
>>323239303 Boom is okay but it is so far removed from the concept of a sonic game you wonder why they even bothered. 06 is without a doubt much worse but at least tried to adhere to the sonic formula instead of being a shitty generic platformer I'm gonna go with Chronicles
>>323239743 Good music is the one consistent thing in every sonic game, The day a sonic game on the same fuck-up tier as 06 or boom but with terrible music appears, will be the day we know the franchise is over.
Reminder that Sonic's target demographic is young enough that they've never played a main Sonic game with playable characters other than Sonic, with a serious story, or with side characters other than the Genesis-era ones (Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Eggman), and associate all the other characters with sports spin-offs.
>>323233501 No the reason why SEGA said no more characters other than Sonic was because fans complained about the other characters. Don't you remember "Sonic has too many friends" and "Why do I have to play these non-speed levels just to play as Sonic"?
>>323255632 >All you have to do is type in "Sonic has too many" and google Are you really trying to repurpose "HAHA YOUR NAME HERE THE HEDGEHOG" as an argument? All I know is that ClementJ692 said that IGN had a pre-existing bias against 3D Sonic.
>>323255498 From the death of the Dreamcast, and by extension exposure of both Adventures to a wider audience, up to and including 06 for "too many friends" and Unleashed for "why can't I just play Sonic levels?"
>>323229878 Yes I fucking hate it. It was an awful mess that wasted my time both before and after its release. The only laughs I get are from the suffering of others playing it. Anyone that actually likes this game can kill themselves.
>>323256481 Less of a technical mess. Wasn't advertised as the reboot of Sonic as a franchise, an anniversary game, or a mainline game in general. Aside from lacking a story for the most parts due to cut content, the story wasn't the worst thing I've subjected myself to since the star wars prequels like Sonic 06's was.
>>323255596 Everything outside of waggle controls was good.
- Good storyline that took what Sonic represents as a character and made it meaningful in a way that hadn't quite been done in the games before, without going overly serious melodrama - Decent enough graphics considering its on the Wii - Literally the last 4kids game so the VAs by then had a good grip on their characters and weren't bad - Merlina is a qt - Literally the best Sonic soundtrack of all time - Gameplay isn't bad if you remap waggle to actual buttons, and would've been even better had they just done that to begin with
Black Knight is the perfect example of a solid and underrated game that was fucked over by forced Wii motion controls.
It was...okay...I guess? For every frustrating moment (snowboarding), there was a good moment (mach speed section in wave ocean). I have no plans to ever play it again, which is probably a bad sign since I've replayed many different sonic games.
>>323248808 >considering Sonic 3 and Knuckles as one game
>>323257787 Honestly, I think the 06 soundtrack suffered as much as the rest of the game did from the rushed schedule. It was still good, but still gave the impression that some of the tracks were incomplete demos rather than completely finished and polished tracks. Probably why the Crisis City remixes in Generations are fucking incredible.
>>323256843 >Cut content What cut content? The developers kept clamoring about how complete the game was and it was still a hot mess.
>Less of a technical mess You can literally beat the game through a glitch that skips through almost the entire game
>Wasn't advertised as a reboot It has a new world, characters, TV show, comics, merchandise, 3DS games, etc. It is a reboot of the franchise by every definition. SEGA just didn't want to call it a reboot because it will anger fans. The massive Boom campaign to make sure this shit is a success is proof that they wanted this to be the new Sonic.
>>323231975 >Heroes was on a whole other level of gud compared to this garbage
Heroes is literally responsible for most of the flaws in 06's design that aren't attributed to it being unfinished
Heroes brought in multi hit enemies that require repetitive attacks to defeat Heroes brought in realistic bullets that take off one rings at a time
And on top of that Heroes has some of the most awful broken physics in a sonic game ever, not even 06 is as bad as Heroes in some aspects.
Shadow salvaged the Heroes engine and turned it into something playable by fixing the physics and adding in guns to justify the enemy health bars, but it's still a mediocre game at best that gets more shit than it deserves because of the tryhard edginess. Heroes has no redeeming qualities, not even the soundtrack is that good for sonic standards
>>323260506 >Heroes has no redeeming qualities Some of the level design had the best example of legitimately branching paths in the 3D games. For most of the 3D games "branching paths" just meant minor detours that merge again a few seconds later, with most of the level design being horribly linear.
Also it had the best Vector voice. Shame it only lasted one game.
Are you talking about shadow? >way too goddamn fast and uncontrollable He's slower than sonic in the adventure games
>more backtracking than the chaotix missions Perhaps if you aren't paying attention and miss shit, but they do try and make it easier with that teleport system
>and having to replay the game all the way through....what, 12 times to get the real ending? Definitely a fault of the game, but they do at least make it easier to swallow with the branching path system so that to get those 12 endings you are completing different objectives each time. Most levels with the exception of the first couple you only ever play the same level OBJECTIVE once or twice. I would argue that makes it less repetitive than Heroes, where you were literally just going through the exact same level every time and maybe stopping sooner (minus chaotix)
The game definitely has its faults but most of the criticisms people seem to have of it are 'not muh sonic' or 'ow the edge'
I played 06 and honestly had fun. It was masochistic fun, but fun nonetheless I've played heroes and gave up when I realised I needed to get all of the chaos emeralds in those half pipe stages that have quite literally some of the worst physics in a 3D sonic game, plus the fact that you literally cannot beat the later special stages if you use the wrong team. That is an absolutely awful design decision
>>323261142 I lost count of the pits I fell into pointlessly while playing shadow because of how fast it was...and unlike adventure, whose high-speed sections were generally on rails and not needed to be controlled, shadow actually required that you move and control shit...and he was slippery af.
even in the first mission, I remember how many times I had to go through again and again to find all the GUN soldiers.
shadow the hedgehog was the last sonic game I went into expecting a good game.
generations broke that trend for me, but goddamn was it a chore to play through.
a fucking stage select would have fixed the biggest problem the game had, but no, oyu have to play the first couple stages 3-5 times.
shit, to unlock every cutscene and path in the cutscene viewer, you have to play something like 290 different playthroughs.
There's nothing retroactive about it. Heroes made a multitude of bad design decisions such as the ones I've pointed out. It was bad when Heroes did it and it was equally bad when 06 did it, but 06 is usually the only one to get shit for it because of its meme status
He literally objectively wasn't. You stop almost instantly regardless of how fast you're moving, and you have a super small turning circle. You're confusing the fact that his run animation has him gliding on the ground with how the game physically played.
I feel like I can understand where you're coming from, but I feel like 2006 being worse than Labyrinth is a mostly a subjective reaction. The development drummed itself up as the return of the Adventure series, which a lot of people looked forward to after we got Heroes and Shadow. What we got was more than just a let down but a nail being hammered into everyone's urethra. Meanwhile Labyrinth was released at the end of a dead handheld's lifespan. But Labyrinth really manages to be more numbing and painful to play, and not in a amusing or endearing way like 2006 potentially can. The only other worse officially released Sonic experience might be Sonic Eraser.
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