"RPG" in this day and age includes any game where you

>>323117546
More like
>rpg in this day and age includes any game where you can level up

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>>323117546
This guy's gets it

Feels bad man, literally every Rpg that is just you with no party should just be Adventure games instead, but then people get needless technical with terms ties irrelevant histories to justify the classification, irks me so much

>>323118474
More like,
>rpg in this day and age includes any game

>>323118629
This. If there's a number that increases over time in the game, it's an RPG.

is xenoblade x not a jrpg?

What should the strict definition of an RPG be, anons?

Also, what actual negative effects are created by RPGs not being confined to a strict set of rules?

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>>323117546
>rpgs reach huge mainstream status
>results in every "rpg" being a soulless open world game with shoestring RPG elements
Fuckin A, it's almost abstract to think that open world games used to be a relative anomaly

>>323120853
>What should the strict definition of an RPG be, anons?
Role Playing Game. A game where you choose a Race/Class for your character, and probably should include a fantasy setting.

>what actual negative effects are created by RPGs not being confined to a strict set of rules?
>11,504 games available
>search "RPG"
>11,492 games available

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>tfw just started playing my favorite rpg on new monitor

>>323121478
>You can't have an RPG in any other setting

>>323122824
That's why I said probably. RPGs can work in other settings but then you get on that slippery slope again where everyone ends up claiming they're an RPG. By restricting the RPG label to fantasy settings you help ensure it's used properly.

RPGs are games where you play a role

>>323123058
Alright, I'll go call up Black Isle and tell them that Fallout 1 and 2 aren't actually RPGs.

There are tons of JRPGs where you can name your character, though.

>>323122993
Skyrim isn't an RPG its an FPS with swords

The difference between RPG and JRPG is that one of them is completely shit and the other isn't. If youre a dense weaboo which most of /v/ is, its JRPG thats completely utterly garbage.

Dungeons and Dragons was really popular when the genre was created, not so popular now.

So I'm not surprised it's stagnated. The world has gotten incredibly lazy.

All video games are technically RPG's.

Halo- you ROLE-PLAY as Master Chief

COD- you ROLE-PLAY as whatever gun-toting retard they cast as a main character (I wouldn't know, I only play COD for the multiplayer)

Fuck, even MINECRAFT is an RPG, even more so since they added XP way back in 1.8

>>323123196
Science Fiction and Fantasy are pretty damn close. I'd be willing to let it in on the RPG tag

>>323123491

Thank god for homebrewing

>>323123507
this is what people actually believe

>>323123507
That not how genre naming works
You don't apply the name literally to everything

>>323117546
So by this definition Witcher 3 is a JRPG. That's good to know.

>>323123603

>A role-playing game (RPG and sometimes roleplaying game) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting.

fuck you faggot

>>323123731
It's an ERPG

>>323123786
That's like calling strawberry juice water because it has water in it. That's just not how it works anon.

>>323118557
>every Rpg that is just you with no party should just be Adventure games
uh huh cause rpg means game with a set of characters that fight alongside you right?
fuck off pls

>>323124305
>ketchup is a fruit because it has tomato in it

>>323124581
>uh huh cause rpg means game with a set of characters that fight alongside you right?
And they dance. Don't forget the idle dance

>>323123507
>all games are technically first person because you view the television in first person

>>323125002
>all games are multiplayer because more than one person plays it

>>323125092
>all games are single player for me because Ive never had a gf

>>323120853
A game in which character skill, not player skill, is the determinant for success (eg if your character's speech skill is high enough, you can convince the bad guy to kill himself), and in which character skill is determined by stats/skill that are controlled by the player and increase throughout the course of the game based on the player's decisions, victories, etc. Eg. Fallout, Vampire: Bloodlines, Baldur's Gate

>>323121478
M8 that's bullshit. Fallout, arguably the quintessential RPG, has none of those things.

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>>323125210

>>323123601
I still stand firmly by my belief that the average fa/tg/uy DM is more competent at story telling and world building than any mainstream game developer out there,

>>323125380
>M8 that's bullshit. Fallout, arguably the quintessential RPG, has none of those things.

Yeah but you still built a character, even if you didn't have set classes, you picked skills and abilities and all that. And even if there's not elves and magic, wouldn't you call an alternate-universe apocalypse a fantasy setting to some degree?

>>323120853
The strictest and most flexible form while still keeping a consistent notion of what the genre should be would focus on the most relevant part of the RPG: the Role being played.

I would say that while people consider the focus of an RPG to be games where you make a character and play as them, it's way too broad and ignores myriad elements of proper pen and paper RPGs. The best definition would be a game where the defining factor of one's ability to progress is statistical superiority of the individual character versus a particular obstacle, and said satistics need to be a variable that increases or decreases as you progress, not a static variable that only temporarily changes.

For example, a game like Fallout openly utilizes Charisma as a stat to modify dialogue options and permit you to find success thanks to your satistical advantage. There are also moments where great strength permits you to physically move obstacles elsewhere. As well as moments where intelligence will assure your success in technology or awareness of your situation. And these traits also reflect combat, where a strategic or action-based approach will HELP you win, but a greater statistical advantage can all but assure your victory, and said statistical advantage is an ever changing variable. Not a singular number that only changes when it is convenient.

>>323126074
Now you're stretching definitions to fit just as much as the crowd that would argue Fallout 4 is an RPG.

>>323120174
The creator said he is more influence by Western games and doesn't like many Japanese games.

>>323126319
Well now you're telling me the definitions can't be stretched a little bit!

>>323123507
This "theory" is so fundamentally stupid, and has been countered so many times I can only think of people still spreading it either to troll, or because they actually actively want to be wrong.

>>323126483
That doesn't mean it's not a JRPG. It's a role-playing game made in Japan.

>>323126523
Its easy to be right when you believe every opinion you have is right, no matter what evidence/counter argument is presented anon.

Jews did 9/11. Prove me wrong.

>>323126649
So if any American RPG was made in japan but is identical to how it was in America, it changes subgenres?

Okay /v/. Let's decide.

>Is Skyrim an RPG? What about Fallout 4? Are any Bethesda games RPGs? Did they stop being RPGs at some point? If so, when?
>Is Mass Effect an RPG? What about Mass Effect 2?
>Is Dark Souls an RPG? What about Bloodborne?
>Is the Witcher 3 an RPG? What about previous games in the series?
>Use your answers to define the genre of RPGs.

Justify your answers. This is a 50 point grade.

>>323126649
WRPG and JRPG don't literally mean the areas they were created in, there is a gameplay difference stemming from the style that is traditionally native to each region.

WRPGs are generally more focused on the world that you are put into, rather than the character. To this end, most (but not all) WRPGs give you a character that you create yourself, so you can if you so choose literally project yourself into the world and then interact with it, because at the end of the day your character doesn't matter, the characters around you and the world do.

JRPGs tend to be much more character-driven, so they don't often let you project directly onto the character, instead giving you a static appearance and making your character, and your other party members, very integral to the plot of the game. The dialogue and relationships between them are focused on much more than the overarching plot.

>>323127048
The "japaneses" is in jrpg for a reason, as is the "western" in wrpg. Those two are classifications based on land of origin. Sure it typically denotes a style but that doesn't highjack the literal meaning of the term.

>>323127048
Is a Japanese studio making it? Are they based in Japan as well? Because if it's some American company that is for whatever reason legally based in Japan, using a Japanese company to develop it, and claiming the product to be Japanese, it will be a JRPG.

>>323127143
Yes, but its eh
Yes, but its shit
Yes they all are, morrowind is the most rpg-y of them all
No never did.
No. No.
No. No.
Yes.

I feel like perks and skill trees are pretty low tier rpg mechanics. You could argue mass effect is an rpg and id probably fold in the end.

>>323127398
If the terms only indicate the country of origin, using them seems a bit silly.

>>323126223
>The best definition would be a game where the defining factor of one's ability to progress is statistical superiority of the individual character versus a particular obstacle, and said satistics need to be a variable that increases or decreases as you progress, not a static variable that only temporarily changes.
I'm kinda struggling with this definition - not because I disagree, but rather because I'm not sure if I understand it.

I'm going to offer what I think is a different formulation, you'll tell me if I'm merely rephrasing what you said, or if you see any considerable difference:

RPG is a game where the major bulk of the interactions between player avatar(s) and problems-solving systems is governed by a ruleset that takes heavily into account specific characteristic of the avatar (a character, or a role), which represented as a set of statistical abstractions of the qualities of the character.
Furthermore, the characteristics of the avatar are dynamic, and change over the course of the game as part of a character progression.

As a result, an RPG game is a game where the specific configuration of your character's qualities (represented as stats) is the key (or at least major) determinant of your options in the problem solving process, and where the qualities of the character progress dynamically over the course of the gameplay.

The definition obviously has a weak point in use of the nebulous terms of "major bulk" and "taking heavily into account" and "key, or at least major" factor but then again, I think some degree of leeway is in order here.

>>323127034
Do you react like this to every single case when somebody tells you just how fucking stupid you are?

>>323127485

Mass effect is just as much of an RPG as witcher, if not moreso since you have more control over how your character is shaped.

>>323127143
>>Is Skyrim an RPG? What about Fallout 4? Are any Bethesda games RPGs? Did they stop being RPGs at some point? If so, when?
They are all RPG's but increasingly shallow ones, slowly but systematically replacing RPG elements with sandbox and action elements. Fallout 4 in particular really stretches the idea of an RPG to the absolute limit of where it's still a relevant term to use.

>Is Mass Effect an RPG? What about Mass Effect 2?
First one without a question second one is I believe a action game with some RPG elements in it.

>Is Dark Souls an RPG? What about Bloodborne?
I don't know much about Bloodborne, but Dark Souls is. It's an action RPG, with the whole problemsolving system being reduced to means of winning combat, but the individual builds still heavily define your playthrough options.

>Is the Witcher 3 an RPG? What about previous games in the series?
Yes, but an action RPG and a relatively shallow one. Witcher games never were very complex RPG's.

>Use your answers to define the genre of RPGs.

I already tried to define an RPG, here >>323128071

>>323127394
>JRPGs tend to be much more character-driven, so they don't often let you project directly onto the character, instead giving you a static appearance and making your character, and your other party members, very integral to the plot of the game. The dialogue and relationships between them are focused on much more than the overarching plot.

I guess pokemon is a wrpg now

>>323127564
it is but after that jrpgs are dead campaign that started it will be years before people realize how stupid the terms are

>>323128071
I agree with your definition overall. In fact that's pretty much what I was trying to get across. The elements that define your character(s) in a statistical manner are what determine your ability to proceed or your options with which to interact with the obstacles the game puts ahead of you. When your obstacles are opponents moving faster than you, it becomes a race. When your obstacles are opponents trying to shoot you, the game is now a SHMUP, a FPS, a TPS, or another game in that vein. But when the obstacle is a target that requires a certain statistical spread and application of some ability or skill that plays on or requires said statistical spread to determine success, it becomes an RPG.

"Roleplaying" is really too vague a definition and can be extrapolated far too easily to genres where it has no place being ("I CAN ROLEPLAY A DUDE IN A CAR, THEREFORE BURNOUT IS AN RPG"). But you cannot mistake a game's reliance on pure statistical growth being primarily an RPG. I'd say that the dividing line between an RPG with Action elements and an Action game with RPG elements is what metric the game rewards you with success for: Statistical manipulation or active mechanical knowhow

If the game rewards your stat spread far more readily than your ability to input commands strategically or technically, then it's an RPG with action mechanics. If the game relies primarily on your technical application of inputs and statistics are merely a tool to benefit your technical knowhow, it's an Action game with RPG mechanics.

>>323128176
He said ME was an RPG he just didn't like them.

>>323127143
>>Is Skyrim an RPG? What about Fallout 4? Are any Bethesda games RPGs? Did they stop being RPGs at some point? If so, when?
I'd say Skyrim is, and so are the previous ES games, but it's more iffy with FO3, and definitely no with FO4.
>>Is Mass Effect an RPG? What about Mass Effect 2?
Yes both are. ME2 may have dropped a lot of RPG mechanics but it kept decision making and classes.
>>Is Dark Souls an RPG? What about Bloodborne?
Yes to both.
>>Is the Witcher 3 an RPG? What about previous games in the series?
Yes but both Deus Ex and Witcher lean more towards action games than RPGs. They have set characters for one. Frankly if they didn't offer dialogue choices I wouldn't consider themEPGs. That aside I still love them.
>>Use your answers to define the genre of RPGs.
RPGs must have dialogue choices and offer choices that change the outcome of the story however marginal. That for me is the essential difference between RPGs and other genres.

>>323128759
I think there's a more important distinction here. Is the roleplay mechanically reinforced? Simply put, am I actually taking on and being made to play as a character? Am I being forced to think as the character I rolled rather than the person sitting at the keyboard? Let's go with Fallout New Vegas as an example. Depending on how I build my character I am forced into certain styles of play because I'm governed by the abilities of the character. My guns skill is on 20 so I'm not going to be hitting a thing with a rifle because my character can't hit a thing. My speech, barter and science are high though, so I'm in a situation where talking, thinking and buying my way out of problems is preferable. This is because of the character. This is the role I am playing. This is also why Fallout 4 is not an RPG. Despite what choices you make in SPECIAL and perks, you solve all problems the same way, with bullets. You can always find your mark with your rifle or you nuke launcher and your choices of stat do not make a meaningful impact on how you play. I think Super Bunnyhop put it best with the description that this style of game is more about player expression than storytelling. The character serves as a proxy for you, rather than a person you take on.

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>caring about a label used only to categorize games
Autism

Except you can name yourself in a lot of JRPGs

>>323128759
>"Roleplaying" is really too vague a definition and can be extrapolated far too easily to genres where it has no place being
That problem can be simply avoided if we consider that roleplaying is something different from playing a role. Playing a role means certain degree of identification of the player and the avatar. Roleplaying means constraining your options to those appropriate for the characteristics of the avatar.

I've always said that the idea of roleplaying is more about restriction than anything else. It really means that LIMIT your possibilities: when you roleplay as a dumb guy, you restrict yourself from acting smart. Playing a role of a dumb guy does not mean you have to act dumb: it means your avatar is dumb, and you are in control of him. Roleplaying a dumb guy means acting dumb.
That is a pretty important difference between Roleplaying games and sandboxes: in a sandbox, you have access to all options the game's interaction inventory offers. In a roleplaying game, you have only access to those that are consistent with your character (and your character is, for the sake of keeping the ruleset constrained, abstracted into statistics and values).

>>323125874
>uhhh there's these orcs, but they're based (insert culture here)
>and there's elves as well, and they're based off (insert culture here)

woah /tg/ is so creative lol

>>323125380
>A game in which character skill, not player skill, is the determinant for success
>Baldur's Gate
>any of that

for fuck sakes kid, actually play games instead of namedropping them

>>323130373
The only flaw of that definition is that instead of "player skill", there should be "input control". You can make the argument that knowing builds and mechanics and being able to use the ruleset to high efficiency is a player skill so it's a questionable formulation, but then again I think that anyone actually can understand that in this context, "player skill" means to manual imput skills.

>>323117546
I read an article back in, like 2007 or something, that described why RPGs seem to be such a dying breed, and it's more relent now than ever.

Basically, it's because everything we used to characterize RPGs for (Character progression systems, numerical representations of innate traits, granular customization, even unorthodox combat systems) have all been subsumed into gaming as a whole. Tetris has level up systems now. Fucking FIFA these days has a deeper character progression system than Morrowind.
And when every other game takes your best traits, you tend to look for something to differentiate yourself. Ten years ago, Xenoblade Chronicles wouldn't even have been called a JRPG, but here we are.

>>323127143
>Skyrim
Yes, albeit a simplistic one. As far as actual role playing goes it's one of the most fun games for it I can think of but that's an opinion.
>Fallout 4
Open world first person shooter with RPG elements. As much of an RPG as FC3 or Dishonored
>Bethesda
TES and Fallout series are both RPGs with the obvious exceptions. You can't really say just "Bethesda games" in general because the aforementioned stealth action game Dishonored is not and not intended to be an RPG.

>Mass Effect
Yes. Detailed level system, skill gates (you have to have certain skill ranks to hack or use some objects), morality system, some player choice. It's no hallmark of the genre (though it's a good game)
>ME2
Like Skyrim, barely. Most of what you could do in ME1 is still there, just reduced.
>Dark Souls
Action RPG and a game of a completely different style, since it is narratively linear but almost everything else is up to the player.
>Bloodborne
I don't see why not.
>Witcher
Geralt is an established character, but only really as much as Shepard or Revan. Of course it's an RPG.

>>323131126
Not really. Having RPG elements is not the same as being an RPG. Having a progression model in Tetris, unlocks in CoD, those laughable and annoying "skill" unlocks in modern day open world games does not make them RPG, and they do not endanger the existence of the RPG as a stand-alone genre.

>>323128621
Don't be so fucking dim. The player in Pokemon is the driving force in a linear narrative completely centered around him.

>>323128759
Under this definition, Souls games would not be classified as RPGs when it's almost universally agreed that they are. There seems to be an error here.

>>323127394
>don't literally mean the area they were created in
Except they do. For example, Souls is technically a JRPG and Bound By Flame is a WRPG, even though they're both of the same type of game.

What you're describing are gameplay conventions and your logic could effectively be used to classify Halo, Far Cry, and Doom as all being in different genres because of their radically different playstyles.

You're all retarded.

>What is an RPG?
>It's a character based game that doesn't fit neatly into any other existing genre.

>What is a JRPG?
>It's a character based game that doesn't fit neatly into any other existing genre, made in Japan.

That's it. That's all the classification you need. Anything else is splitting hairs.