>>322966321 Nihlus and Sion are both examples of what happens if you become completely reliant on the Force. They, along with the Jedi Masters who would (and do) die without the Force, are Kreia's evidence that her way is superior and their ideologies are failures. Her manipulating you to defeat them all is her way of proving it.
>>322966321 Deconstructions are useful because they provide a lens to re-examine our ideas, media, and even lives. KOTOR II's deconstruction works very well because it exists in a universe of moral stagnation (for the most part). Empathizing and understanding both sides of the Force as well as the shades in between, refocus what many love about Star Wars, the characters. Taking familiar imagery, and dialogue and repurposing it to provide a new perspective enriched KOTOR II but the franchise as a whole.
Are Obsidian games worth it? I admit I have never played them
>enjoyed Neverwinter Nights >heard NW2 was buggy, didn't play it >enjoyed KOTOR >heard KOTOR2 was buggy, didn't play it >played Oblivion >got so bored that I never played Fallout 3 and also the Obsidian Fallout
>>322963397 He's a great writer but it's wasted on a shitty medium that doesn't even want him. I wonder why he hasn't quit video games after all the stuff he's written being hacked to pieces or cut entirely.
>>322970881 PoE is ok but nothing special. Obsidian Fallout with mods is great, play it. KOTOR II is fantastic even with it's shitty ending. NWN2 with expansion is amazing (one of the best expansions ever). I didn't play South Park game and Alpha Protocol is shit IMO but some people like it.
>>322970881 >He's never played New Vegas That's a straight up travesty on your part. Base game is mostly bug free at this point. DLC tends to crash, but that's a different issue. Also shit like Alpha Protocol has some really, really fun writing even if the base game is pretty mediocre.
>>322971707 Middle ground boy, middle ground. "I'd rather", is an opinion. Similarly, many people "would rather" have videogames become a medium of nothing but muh cinematic feels rather than having any gameplay content whatsoever. Balance between both is key, focusing on either extreme means neglecting something important to gaming as a whole.
>>322970881 Yes. KotOR 2, New Vegas and Alpha Protocol are all great games [although the first and third are broken as all hell]. The South Park game was good, but doesn't display the good writing they are well known for.
Where can I buy or find the best lightsaber upgrade shit in Kotor2 ? I just got access to the 4 planets and am fucking around on dantooine. Also I got a crystal that had my player's name idk if it's good, but yeah
>kotor 2 better than average writing in terms of vidya but still really substandard, especially the elements concerning morality >new vegas outrageously bad, not a single character or faction that wasn't paper thin >alpha protocol average >pillars of eternity same as kotor2
avellone a shit, obshitian a shit. as for who is best, Amy Hennig wrote all the good Legacy of Kain games so it's her.
>>322974202 >Literally all you need is aesthetic appeal Guess what you draw from in order to decide the aesthetics of a game? Is Doom about demons and space marines because that's the optimal setting for the kind of gameplay it wanted to invoke? Is Civilization about historical civs because the gameplay demands it to be so? No. They're not. Story means A LOT more than just narrative, and includes even basic things such as expectations about the function of a weapon or how entities will interact with one another. It permeates everything. And that's not even mentioning genres where the story is essential for the gameplay to function, such as RPGs and adventure games.
You're just the result of the inevitable pushback that comes from faggots in the gaming media saying that videogames don't need any gameplay to be worthwhile and needs to evolve beyond it's childishness. Then come people like you and say "WELL YEAH, THEN I SAY WE DON'T NEED -ANY- STORY!"
>>322963397 Keen to play KOTOR 2, just finished 1 yesterday and apart from the main plot, most of that game was pretty bland.
>pretty distant and uncaring of Bastila through the entire game even though I'm going Light side >after last confrontation I take her back to the Light side away from the Sith >"I love you!" >only responses are "I don't love you" or "I love you too!!!!!!"
>>322971535 I absolutely hated Oblivion so bad, after all the hype I heard about it, how all those dungeons were repetitive and made with the same exact assets placed in a different manner, that awful magic system that just oozed laziness, those quests that don't give me any choices. I got so disappointed at the whole thing I decided to fucking boycott anything associated with Bethesda, so I skipped all modern Fallouts.
>>322963397 1. He's a pretty good writer in his own right. 2. He understands that gameplay and narrative must mutually support one another. 3. He works in a genre (crpgs) where integrating narrative and mechanics is easier and more valued than a lot of other genres.
>>322974912 Fallout 3 is more of the same. Might be worth slogging through if you enjoy exploring. New Vegas is nothing like Oblivion in terms of dungeon design. You might have the advantage to play NV if you've never played 3. You'll never notice what's been recycled because of it
>>322975208 Nvm, second to galaxies. But since that's not a thing anymore (beside EMU which I hear has its own problems) you should give koto2 a try, if you found kotor good you should enjoy the sequel.
>>322975632 Depends on the videogame - it's a flexible medium. Action movies don't need much story while dramatic movies do. Blockbusters need good cinematography, while some films have made amateur-style filming their gimmick. Assuming there's only one model of a videogame is silly.
>>322974912 If you hate Bethesda, New Vegas will really bring your piss to a boil. The only flaw is how buggy it can be some times, which is entirely because Bethesda promised Obsidian to do the QA for the game, and then didn't do it.
Which ended up causing it's Metacritic score to get low enough that Obsidian didn't get the bonus for making the game.
That said, New Vegas is a fantastic game. It has a lot of well-designed dungeons, good weapon variety and systems, and it's really good at giving you as many choices to tackle situations as you could expect. It also actually gives a shit about RPG elements by having a plethora of different skill checks for various quests.
>>322975301 And yet this is not a zero sum game, Anon. I don't think anyone will dispute that a game has an easier time sustaining itself on its own two feet with only a great gameplay than with a great story. What I'm saying is that this attitude of "story is worthless garbage, throw it all away I say, what a waste of money" is quite a feel degrees removed from "a game doesn't need a good story to necessarily function".
Hell, I'd be willing to bet that the money spent on a competent writer is a pittance compared to the money spent on actually crafting gameplay content. If that were not the case, a game like KotOR 2 that was rushed and under-funded wouldn't be able to present engaging writing the way that it does. Or Alpha Protocol wouldn't have one of the most wonderful reactive choice systems I've seen in these last few years.
Ultimately a game that has both elements working in concert makes for a far more memorable experience than one where both sides are fighting.
>>322963397 Chris Avellone is definitely one of MY favorites, but that's mostly because my PERSONAL tastes are very welcoming to deconstruction and grey morality.
>>322965637 I've heard a lot of good things about Halo's lore but never read up on it and don't own any Microsoft consoles, what's a good way to get hooked on that universe?
>>322973027 And now Kitrkbridge is writing Minecraft Adventure for TellTale. It's a wonder that we haven't learned about the metaphysics of endermen yet. Pic related is a writer who I used to look up to and still respect to a certain degree because of Bioshock 1 and Burial at Sea Episode 1, but I'm far more excited to see what the Minerva's Den team does with the Bioshock IP.
Well shit. 2K said they were continuing the series with the team that made the non-Levine games, so I though we'd get some more stuff in line with Minerva's Den (which I consider to be the truest sequel to Bioshock 1)
>>322977357 At some point he's going to make a lengthy rant about how the main character has achieved CHIM and that's why he can carry around buckets filled with lava in his pockets like it ain't no thing. Also that the Ender Dragon is actually Lorkham.
He quit halfway through the games development because the higherups. The mess we know now is completely different than the original plan, but if you look in the grimoire cards you can see some of what was originally planned.
He's working on Recore now as well, so fucking hyped
>>322972768 It was a great mom moment from Kreia. She's trying to sit this one out to let you handle it, but she gets so pissed she kills all the people trying to kill you. If you take a lot of the stuff Kreia does out of context, she has constant mom moments. Of course, she doesn't really love the Exile, she loves how the Exile proves her right. She doesn't value anything you have to say until your final conversation, and only if you're light-sided.
>>322979304 >It was a great mom moment from Kreia. She's trying to sit this one out to let you handle it, but she gets so pissed she kills all the people trying to kill you. That's not really it, unless you count those mothers that use their children as personal trophies.
>Of course, she doesn't really love the Exile, she loves how the Exile proves her right. Now that's exactly right. She's had you round up the masters and presented you to them as proof that her interpretation of the Force is right. When they refuse to understand and reject you, she slaps their shit to protect her greatest work and to forcibly open their eyes.
>>322976378 The early Halo books by Eric Nyland are actually quite decent. They aren't the deepest thing ever, but are the written version of a popcorn action movie without being poorly written or insulting to your intelligence.
Avoid the books by Traviss. This is universal advice.
>>322979651 That's why I said "if you take a lot of the stuff Kreia does out of context"
>>322979651 You are, she does treat you like a child of sorts, it's just not a loving relationship. She dedicates herself to teaching you, that's kinda parental. I guess that's a big theme of KoTOR2, the perversion of the natural order. She looks like a parent, but it's an uncanny facsimile.
>>322978457 Lake and Avellone should team up. With Avellone's philosophical musings and dungeon master approach Lake's sense of literary and cinematic presentation they could make something really special.
>>322980202 Cool guy and all, personally loved the metro books, they were pretty cliched, but what isn't nowdays. Plus I enjoyed his prose. That being said, Sam Lake is by definition the most based. >based
Having many girls, being a mansion, swagging to the maximum, and looking like jesus.
>>322980690 Not that guy, but purity of essence is a worthy literary tool. Sometimes a hammer really is the best tool, Nihilus was the blunt tool used to hammer home the point. His character wasn't what was interesting about him, Sion was much better in that regard. Nihilus was someone who believed that more force = more power and got lost in the pursuit of that power. The point of his character was to show that power is a far more subtle thing than the force, that's why one of the most successful sith barely used any physical force or force powers.
>>322981439 Did you forget you literally have a minigame segment where you pull it down from the sky while force pushing TIE Fighters out of the way? If you do nothing, it continues to fly and even corrects itself back to how it should be.
>>322981912 Shaak Ti like many Jedi became a broken husk of what they once were and was on a planet eating away our her sanity that was filled with the Dark Side, similar to Yoda and Dagobah, he just kept it together a little better.
Vader was a broken husk of what he once was and has been confirmed to be 80% weaker than what he was on Mustafar.
He didn't beat The Emperor, he managed to out duel him in lightsabers and that was it, and block his Force Lightning, which eventually blasted his ass into oblivion, even then Palpatine and Vader both got up like it was nothing and Vader is sitting there dying without his helmet while he talks.
He also kills Luke before he even becomes a proper Jedi in the Dark Side DLC.
Starkiller is a broken mary sue sure, but planet destroying is far far worse. Not even Anakin during The Clone Wars who managed to make the Light Side and Dark Side of the force, their living embodiment bow before him could destroy a planet or rip out of the life force of things. Not even Darth Bane, basically God of the Sith could do that shit.
EU can take things to the extreme sure, but there are some clear limits when you're eclipsing things by leagues and leagues just to make your own speshul snowflaek characters seem like they're important or one of the most powerful beings to ever grace the galaxy.
>>322980000 >>322980301 Nylund is a fucking great writer of military Sci-fi. Fuck being "deep", he knows his subject matter and writes the shit out of some Chief adventures. He also has a Masters in Chemistry and some shit in Physics, so his descriptions of goings-on in space and Plasma weapons are fantastic, as are his details about SPARTAN-II augmentation.
The book versions of Blue team are based as Hell, too. The flashbacks in First Strike to their training on Reach are some of my favorite shit I've ever read. It's pulp Sci-Fi to the goddamned max, and I mean that in a good way.
Fall of Reach is pretty good, kinda meh compared to the others. I'd say First Strike is the best, also the best vidya tie-in material I've ever read considering how well it fits into the gap between Halo and Halo 2, it really doesn't have that "extended universe", fan-fic feel to it, it feels just as much part of Halo as the core games. Ghosts of Onyx is about on par with it, and goes over the SIII program.
Chief may have the biggest list of feats under his belt, but I haven't met anyone IRL who's read Ghosts of Onyx that doesn't consider Kurt to be the most based.
>>322982161 >Malak manages to deceive his master so hard that even after challenging him for supremacy as a Sith he still manages to get the surprise attack on Revan >Darth Plagueis is so deceiving that he manages to not only fake his death but create the First Order and essentially take Palpatine's place after his death (assuming Snoke is Plagueis and at this point it's blindingly obvious with the Novel and everything too) >Vader for all his cold hatred and only having the Dark Side and The Emperor left manages to deceive and turn back to the Light at the very end without Palpatine knowing (even if we go into the EU he's been trying to get Palpatine killed for all that transpired since RotS for 25 years before RotJ)
Kreia sucks ass and uses some fancy words to try and deceive you into believing her way is the only way, which is a typical Sith trait. She's smart sure, but nowhere near smarter than half the Sith out there.
>>322982750 >reading comprehension >you >>322982679 Either way the point stands on his defeating Luke, I couldn't remember if he killed or defeated him. Luke wasn't a proper Jedi by any means then and if Starkiller could beat Vader he could easily beat Luke on Hoth.
>>322982719 >video game novel author >good writer lol no. /v/ has the worst fucking taste in books, mostly because you're all retards who can only read something if it's related to video games in some way.
Read Gibson if you want an actual good entry level sci-fi writer.
>>322983074 Doesn't matter if it was proper or not, plenty of people don't actually speak with proper English. It's not hard to understand he was referring to Yoda in that case, considering he followed that up immediately after, and that he had previously said Shaak Ti was a woman.
>>322983057 Yeah, mildly Easy to brush up on the halopedia about plot details, the gist of the story is easy to grasp The Forerunner Trilogy by Greg "The Motherfucking" Bear is good for what it was, although I disagree with the plot retcon that humans aren't the descendants of Rorerunners Still a solid trilogy. The consensus on the Kilo-Five Trilogy by Karen Travis has been to avoid though
>>322981673 >Reading newspaper this morning >Some adjunct professor at Rutgers is whining that the college decided not to continue his "Politicizing Beyonce" course >Is offended that the college doesn't take his course proclaiming Beyonce to be a major figure in Feminism history >Championing vapid pop songs and grrrrrl power as serious academic texts
Whenever I get annoyed by how little academia respects games and game narratives, I remind myself that being ignored by these chucklefucks is the highest praise possible.
>>322983037 I've read my share of Gibson, douchebag. Nylund wrote other shit before getting contracted to write Halo novels, and those Halo novels would have stood on their own without the games attached to them. The same can't be said of Karen Traviss'.
I went in expecting shit and got my favorite trilogy of pulp Sci-Fi ever. My only regret is that he didn't continue after GoO. But IDK why I'm replying to a shitty troll.
>>322983057 Do you have an Xbox Hueg? Or a PC for the PC versions of 1 and 2?
The order goes The Fall of Reach > Halo CE > First Strike > Ghosts of Onyx (not a direct tie-in, but happens before 3 IIRC) > 3.
If you're going to read them, I'd at least play those 3 games, since it would be a damn shame for you to get all that backstory built up and then miss out on Chief and Cortana's moment in the level "Cortana" in Halo 3. It was made when Staten/Bungie were still closely collaborating with Nylund so their extended universe was referenced a little in 3, and it kind of brings Chief and Cortana's relationship full circle.
>>322982475 >just to make your own speshul snowflaek characters seem like they're important or one of the most powerful beings to ever grace the galaxy. Funny you say this, the whole point of Nihilus was the exact opposite. He was nothing, just as his name would suggest.
>>322963397 >Who do you think is the best writer for vidya
Whoever wrote Legacy of Kain Soul Reaver
>Kain pulls the "just as planned speech" and how this was all "for Raziel's good" >Raziel calls him out on it >Kain admits he doesn't really understand shit >Kain offers a bunch of grandiose shit about transcendence >Raziel again points out all he's doing is just rationalizing the litany of bullshit he's done over the course of the story >Again Kain with the fucking grandiose "this is all fated" bullshit >Raziel asks Kain why the fuck he thought it was a good idea to turn a Seraphim >More grandiose Kain bullshit, now fate is a game apparently >Raziel explains Kain is just wound up rationalizing all his morals for his own agenda
Actual content from BBEG talking to Protag instead of just HURR BOSS FIGHT TIME
>>322985064 >Yes, really. There's so much socio-political and philosophical commentary going on between the lines that it's not even funny. You're acting like this is a new thing. Look, I'm a massive fan of the writing and world building in New Vegas. But to say it is the "best written video game, period." is a zealous overstatement.
>>322982812 >Darth Plagueis is so deceiving that he manages to not only fake his death but create the First Order and essentially take Palpatine's place after his death (assuming Snoke is Plagueis and at this point it's blindingly obvious with the Novel and everything too) Snoke isn't Plagueis, Palpatine killed him in his sleep and Snoke looks human, something Plagueis is not.
>>322963397 >friend tells me he doesn't like Avellone's writing in Kotor2 >I ask him why >"because I dont like the way he writes romance." that was the day I realized he was just like one of those Tumblr type fans who mainly care for who to fuck in Bioware games more than actual story.
>>322985906 You're missing the fact that it was developed by Obsidian. They wrote all of it, designed all of it and programmed all of it. The only thing that they didn't do was create the assets that were imported from Fallout 3 - which were just meshes and textures.
I saw TFA then I went back and watched the original and prequel trilogies then I bought both KoToRs and all the Jedi Knight games (I've only finished Dark Forces so far Now I just wanna watch some of the TV shows
>>322967465 Additionally, the game doesn't force you to agree with Kreia. You can defy her until the end with reasoning that the game doesn't fault you for (other than influence lost: Kreia) and still beat her. That's another thing that I love about Kotor II. It's trying to send you a message, but it doesn't punish you for disagreeing.
>>322986243 >The Empire Strikes Back was an abomination that tried to literally piggyback on the plot of the first movie
>>322986347 I'm not missing that fact. He said Bethesda didn't work on New Vegas, but they did. That's all I said. My original point before we got sidetracked was "Fallout" and "the best written video game, period." shouldn't be in the same sentence
>>322982446 You must be really stupid if you think that The entire game she is manipulating you She even explains how she does it and you ask "Have you done this to me?", and she says, "No, but you wouldn't know it if I did".
>>322986725 I disagree with that. The game punishes you by railroading you into a hackneyed scenario where Kreia goes Sith. They should have allowed you to completely ditch her from the story if you wanted. Instead you just do whatever she wants you to do. She literally breathes down your neck the whole game. It is overt.
>>322988334 classic shit. when you break it all down, Star Wars is fantasy in space. You got the rightous hero, wise old mentor, a princess and a wise cracking rogue, all facing a menacing dark knight with his evil wizard master.
>>322989976 >video game writing needs to be understood by how it works within the medium How the story mixes with the gameplay is not an indication of the quality of writing, it is an indication of how enjoyable the story is. Story and how it interacts with the game systems is not the same thing as the quality of the writing.
Not to mention the games that are always mentioned in threads like these are RPGs where the story is read or recited by a voice actor almost like a book/audio book.
>>322989976 How it works within the medium is usually badly or as an afterthought. Even when the writing is good, it almost always suffers from the sheer amount of minute-to-minute combat encounters 99% of games feature.
>>322990358 But stories are still not comparable between books and games because they have different objectives. You would never get away with comparing the plot of a book to the plot of a movie in film criticism circles. If you want to say it's bad because it's all exposition from characters, that's another thing entirely.
>>322985064 >Just listen to Caesar's dialogue. The whole hegelian dialectics thing really makes the game. No, it doesn't. In fact, it's the worst part of the game, discounting the stupid orientalist Cold War liberal political paradigm (ie; hur dur occidental demogracy bersus oriendal dodalidarianism lmao :DDD). Whoever wrote this has absolutely no idea what Hegel's philosophy is, and its just shoehorned into Caesar's dialogue because Hegel is continually caricatured as being a totalitarian thinker, even though he wasn't.
>>322996934 >>322999104 Except you're both wrong. Hegel's philosophy was used in the game to give a formula and presentable theory to the NCR/Legion dichotomy and conflict. Josh Sawyer himself told John Gonzalez to give Caesar a flawed understanding of it, one that he could have garnered from a lack of proper sources.
>>322963892 how does someone who has no friends even get into dungeon mastering
I've always liked creating fantasy worlds in my head, but none of the friends I do have are into D&D or anything of the sort and I don't really want to go into the hobby shops in my town because they're all in the "ey cracka watchu doin here" section of the town
>>322999656 So, you're saying that Caesar read somewhere that Hegel was totalitarian then adopted a caricature of Hegel's philosophy, the triad of thesis-antithesis-synthesis (something Hegel actually never advocated by the way) that has nothing to do with why Hegel was ever characterized as such, just to be edgy.
Hell, they don't even do it right. The typical Hegel-as-totalitarian (mis)interpretation makes the nation-state the ultimate culmination of God's divine will, with each successive historical epoch defined by the military domination of a particular nation-state, driven by constant war and the subjugation of the individual by the state, whose dominance is ordained by God. But no, instead they have to use pop "philosophy" pleb-tier drivel to drive the point that Caesar is a fascist by pointing at his use of Hegel.
>>323000932 This doesn't prove that Obsidian made Caesar misinterpret Hegel in purpose. Because Hegel-as-totalitarian put Hegel studies back by three decades and continues to this day reiterated by idiots who don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
>>323001474 The vagina did the thinking for her. She was somewhat alright near the end, before being abducted, when she opened up to you. And then, if playing Dark Side, she once again becomes retarded, since she's not controlling the Dark Side, but the Dark Side is controlling her(akin to Chaos worshippers in 40k). I would've loved it if you could have been the one to tempt her to chaos("it is such a quiet thing to fall...").
>>323001378 Caesar doesn't think that Hegel is totalitarian at all - did you even play the game?
He simply sees the formula as a way to envision history as a sequence of dialectical events that can justify his actions. He views the NCR as the original thesis in the Wasteland itself, and his Legion as the antithesis which will conquer and transform the NCR from a bureaucracy into a military dictatorship that can "protect its citizens and the power of its dictator".
We're talking about a man who literally thinks that by envisioning himself as Julius Caesar and emulating him crossing the Rubicon (the Colorado) he will solve all of the world's problems.
>>323002352 I completely agree. As I've said, my Revan was Sith through and through and I wouldn't have minded Bastila as Sith waifu, but only if it was through persuasion, not brainwashing. It would have been awesome if the plot was made in such a way that you could talk about the Revan reveal with her before the abduction and convince her to become your Sith apprentice by her own will.
>>323002571 >We're talking about a man who literally thinks that by envisioning himself as Julius Caesar and emulating him crossing the Rubicon (the Colorado) he will solve all of the world's problems.
And thus completely misrepresenting Julius Caesar and what he stood for
>>323002847 It was certainly not. I do agree that her real nature was Dark Side, but she didn't have a proper 'fall', she was brainwashed by Malak.
Bastila is pretty much a chick with daddy issues. As I've said here >>323002584 her subplot would have been much better if by entering a romance with her in which she perceives you as a father figure, you make her cast off her Jedi teachings and ask you to become her mentor.
>>323002779 It's deliberate. Caesar takes whatever pieces of history he finds useful and disregards things he doesn't find useful. He has specific goals and uses history as a tool to meet those goals. When history doesn't help him, he doesn't use it. Even things like a reluctance to use advanced technology have more to do with his desire to keep the Legion ignorant/dependent on him than with anything "historical". Control is very important to him, even if it means that the people who serve him lack any of the medical knowledge necessary to help diagnose or treat his problems. It's very important for Caesar to maintain that the Legion is different. It is physically different, has different values, and different priorities. When Romans were wearing pants, they thought people wearing skirts were barbarians. When Romans wore togas, they thought people wearing pants were barbarians. People on the other side of that river wear pants. Our identity is good, your identity is bad.
Clearly there are many things Caesar does that work against his goals, or choices he made to emphasize one goal over a conflicting goal and it resulted in problems. But it's important to understand that Caesar calls the shots in the Legion. And when Caesar's not around, it's someone following his lead. Whether that's Lanius or Joshua Graham, there's not going to be a fun party when one of these guys rolls into your town. Events in the vein of Tamerlane and Simon de Montfort are going to happen. Events that culminate in pyramids of human heads, mass blindings, and burning a cathedral down with an entire congregation inside.
>>323003940 No, not quite. But Graham is an incredibly interesting character. He certainly has a sense of 'Deus Volt' about him.
Lanius, I think, is interesting, too. His is a brutal nature, and more likely than not represents the incarnation of the Legion's animosity. He was a great boss, especially if you used speech checks against him.
>>323003278 You make it sound like he could just as easily be any number of dictatorial figures throughout history, Julius Caesar however isn't among them. Julius was one of the people against the "people wearing pants are barbarians" mentality. The Boni were the ones enforcing this idea of status and class, Julius tried to reform it and make Rome a more approachable place for foreigners. He was tired of having to wage wars for more territory and believed it should be done through diplomacy. People should WANT to live in the republic, not fear it. The upper class hated him for his radical views and tried to stop him at every opportunity, eventually forcing his hand with the crossing of the Rubicon. He wanted to extend the Roman citizenship to any who were living in the republic not just those of Roman blood. He also promised that once he had cemented his reforms he would hand Rome back to the people and the new republic (I somehow doubt it however, the people loved him and he had absolute power).
Caesar's Legion in New Vegas have this " lets kill everything and enslave everything until there's nothing left to kill or enslave, kill those who use drugs, kill those who use technology, kill those barbarians in pants because they're subhuman scum, AVE TRVE TO CAESAR" mentality, its just downright dumb and makes no sense. They are more like Nazi's than Romans.
>>323004265 I'm not referring to the whole medieval Catholic West and their 'Roman' legacy, but more akin to the Eastern Roman('Byzantine') Empire. Just like the 'Byzantines' perceived themselves as a New Israel, so does Graham with his New Canaanites. And both the 'Byzantines' and him perceive those not of the faith as barbarians, especially if you go the route of executing Salt-upon-Wounds.
He set about training his army in the "Way of the Canaanite," and soon the New Canaanites and tribes of Zion were feared well into the Mojave. >He set about training his army in the "Way of the Canaanite"
>>323004821 >its just downright dumb and makes no sense The Nazis existed. If they can exist, so can Caesar's Legion. You're acting like people have never misinterpreted a society or philosophy before.
Caesar very possibly represents the absolute extreme of autocracy and totalitarianism. He doesn't even want to leave an heir. He hates hereditary dictatorships so much that he refuses to produce offspring.
The Legion make sense from both a sociopolitical and thematic perspective. They fit incredibly well into Fallout.
You're speaking as though someone who has never played the game before but is instead refuting what is obviously a deliberately skewed written character/faction on the basis of them not perfectly emulating the society that they seek to.
Caesar even says that he's only at the present emulating one side of Rome, and that he will fulfill his plans after he has taken the Mojave and then assimilated the NCR.
>>323002571 >Caesar doesn't think that Hegel is totalitarian at all - did you even play the game? No, but anyone vaguely familiar with Hegel will tell you that he's (incorrectly) associated with totalitarianism and Prussian monarchism. Obsidian really made a point to try to portray the Legion as totalitarian, and the reference to Hegel is just a drop in the bucket for that. Caesar explicitly states that his model state, the Legion, is totalitarian, and its fairly obvious that he got this model from what he read in old books. Ergo, logic goes Caesar read somewhere that Hegel was totalitarian, so he incorporated him into his ideology, but he doesn't even do that right.
>>323002779 My point isn't whether or not Caesar misinterprets Hegel. That is a given. This thread isn't about Caesar, it's about writing. My problem is that (1) it is Obsidian that is misinterpreting Hegel by peddling the age old myth of Hegel-as-totalitarian, and (2) they don't even do it right.
>>323005813 Maybe you could help me with something. How do I get into metaphysics? I've tried reading the likes of Evola and Guenon, but they allude to quite a few concepts that I am not familiar with. Hell, even Eliade is somewhat hard to read.
>>323005398 I'm not saying they cant exist, I'm just saying its not the magical sophistical masterpiece of writing you're making it out to be. To me it just seems like lazy writing. Writing a bland character but using a bunch of big words and historical references to describe said character doesn't make it any less bland.
But that's just like, my opinion, man.
>>323005813 Romans were facists m8 Just not in the modern sense that you're thinking of. Facism has accrued a lot of negative connotations in recent history. It's a lot more extreme now than it was then.
>>323006243 >Romans were facists m8 No they weren't. The Romans didn't advocate for either far-right political policies and beliefs, nor totalitarian government because neither didn't exist until modern society. I called the Legion fascists over nazis because the Legion is definitely fascist, but they aren't nazis.
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