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Who do you think is the best writer for vidya,...
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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games

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Who do you think is the best writer for vidya, and why is it Chris Avellone?
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>why is it Chris Avellone
Well, I suppose that's because his background is in game design and dungeon mastering, not "writing".
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The best writers for video games know how to balance gameplay and story. And have the player interact with the story, not just watch cutscenes.
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Well there isn't a KotOR thread up so I geuss I will post here. I watched this episode of clone wars today now I want to play a Sheev build for TSL. Any suggestions for stats?
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Dunno about THE best, but I've always appreciated pic related. His take on writing in vidya is very unique and feels natural.
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Because he has interesting ideas and doesn't treat me like a retarded neanderthal when he tries to convey them.
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Lmao Nihilus' only character trait is that he's hungry. Pathetic.
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>>322965848
Hungry enough to eat an entire speices' life force away and extinct them. Yeah.
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Doesn't he just deconstruct everything.

why is that interesting
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>>322963397
*coughs*
>Influence lost: Kreia
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>>322966321
it makes me feel intelligent
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>>322963397
>>It's Galactus... but in STARS WARS

10/10 great job so original.
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>>322966321
Nihlus and Sion are both examples of what happens if you become completely reliant on the Force. They, along with the Jedi Masters who would (and do) die without the Force, are Kreia's evidence that her way is superior and their ideologies are failures. Her manipulating you to defeat them all is her way of proving it.
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>>322963397
I wasn't even surprised when I found out that the only interesting companions in Pillars of Eternity were designed by him
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>>322965637
isn't he the reason destiny's story is (or was) absolutely fucked?
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>>322963397
Avellone, nobody else is remotely close. Tom Jubert (FTL, Penumbra Talos Principle) has potential.
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>>322967529
Speaking of Pillars, writing, and Avellone

>Bought Pillars during the Steam sale
>Love the writing
>Can't wrap my head around the combat
Why can't more of these games be like Planescape?
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>>322968994
Planescape has worse combat than Pillar.
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>>322965848
Galactus must be pretty underwhelming to you too.
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>>322967718
No, it was the higher ups that thought taking a hatchet to literally everything the team had put out thus far was a good idea
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>>322969126
True, but Planescape also isn't a combat game.

Pillars is closer in style to BG2, yet has less enjoyable combat and less enjoyable writing. Decent game, just not tremendous.
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>>322968994
I don't even consider Torment a game, it's goal is not to make you have fun
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>>322969126
But death in Placescape had no consequence. I've always loved the stories in the old Infinity games, but I've never been very good at them
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>>322966321
Deconstructions are useful because they provide a lens to re-examine our ideas, media, and even lives. KOTOR II's deconstruction works very well because it exists in a universe of moral stagnation (for the most part). Empathizing and understanding both sides of the Force as well as the shades in between, refocus what many love about Star Wars, the characters. Taking familiar imagery, and dialogue and repurposing it to provide a new perspective enriched KOTOR II but the franchise as a whole.
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>>322969353
But I thought it was because they wrote their story in complete isolation from the reset of development and once it was revealed it turned out to be utter trash.

Cutting it completely was still a shitty decision.
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Are Obsidian games worth it? I admit I have never played them

>enjoyed Neverwinter Nights
>heard NW2 was buggy, didn't play it
>enjoyed KOTOR
>heard KOTOR2 was buggy, didn't play it
>played Oblivion
>got so bored that I never played Fallout 3 and also the Obsidian Fallout
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>caring about story in a game
>they actually have to waste money / resources on writers instead of more programmers / designers to make a more fun and stable gameplay experience.

Honestly one of the worst things to happen to gaming.
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>>322970881
KOTOR 2 isn't buggy if you install the Content Restoration mod
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>>322963397
He's a great writer but it's wasted on a shitty medium that doesn't even want him. I wonder why he hasn't quit video games after all the stuff he's written being hacked to pieces or cut entirely.
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>>322970881
PoE is ok but nothing special. Obsidian Fallout with mods is great, play it. KOTOR II is fantastic even with it's shitty ending. NWN2 with expansion is amazing (one of the best expansions ever). I didn't play South Park game and Alpha Protocol is shit IMO but some people like it.
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>>322970881
>NWN2 is generic but solid
>NWN2:MotB is literally the closest thing to Planescape-tier you're going to get.
>KOTOR2 is pretty good but needs patching
>F:NV is better than 3

Their games are generally pretty good, they're just terrible at bugfixing on release
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>>322971006
There is literally nothing wrong with video games having story.
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>>322970881
>He's never played New Vegas
That's a straight up travesty on your part. Base game is mostly bug free at this point. DLC tends to crash, but that's a different issue. Also shit like Alpha Protocol has some really, really fun writing even if the base game is pretty mediocre.
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>>322971338
I'd rather have a stable game that was fun with a mediocre story than a buggy game with held back potential, but had a great story.

You remember games for being fun to play, not for their story.
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>>322971225
South Park game was a contract. None of their regular writing staff worked on it so you might as well not even count it
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>>322963397

>Noticing how scared was she about what the Jedi Masters were about to tell

THose feels...
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I like what Krazy Kook Kirkbride did to Elder Scrolls, but I think he gives far too much spotlight to the freaking elves.
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>>322971707
That's bullshit, you'd remember a story before you remember actual gameplay.
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>>322971707
Middle ground boy, middle ground.
"I'd rather", is an opinion.
Similarly, many people "would rather" have videogames become a medium of nothing but muh cinematic feels rather than having any gameplay content whatsoever. Balance between both is key, focusing on either extreme means neglecting something important to gaming as a whole.
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>>322965248
Consular, Sith Lord, high charisma and wisdom

if you're a real man do RotJ Sheev and don't even use a lightsaber
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>>322970881
>>322971090
I believe if you get KOTOR2 on steam, it now comes standard with the restoration patch as well as widescreen support.
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>>322969380
It's more of a point and click
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>>322970881
No. KotOR 2, New Vegas, and Alpha Protocol are all garbage. The South Park game was good, but that's it.
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>>322973481
Widescreen support yes, but you have to get the mod from the Workshop
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>>322970881
Yes. KotOR 2, New Vegas and Alpha Protocol are all great games [although the first and third are broken as all hell]. The South Park game was good, but doesn't display the good writing they are well known for.
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>>322963397
That's like winning the Special Olympics, OP.
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>>322973226
>That's bullshit, you'd remember a story before you remember actual gameplay.

Maybe if you're playing in one of those interactive story games.

>>322973297
>Balance between both is key

Literally all you need is aesthetic appeal and good, varied gameplay.

Story doesn't mean shit, it's a waste of resources.

Then you faggots keep complaining about games being buggy on release.
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>>322963397
Writing for RPGs are his strong suit which is the one video game genre where you should expect good writing.
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Where can I buy or find the best lightsaber upgrade shit in Kotor2 ? I just got access to the 4 planets and am fucking around on dantooine. Also I got a crystal that had my player's name idk if it's good, but yeah

WHERE GET SHIT
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Avellone gets way too meta for my tastes.
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Fags
I'm about to start KOTOR 1 for the first time, are there any essential fixes I need to make it not bad on modern systems
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>>322974202
>Literally all you need is aesthetic appeal and good, varied gameplay.

>Story doesn't mean shit, it's a waste of resources.

That's like arguing movies just have to have well-filmed shots with a lot of moving in them. Why put a story into the moving images, that's just a waste of resources.
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>kotor 2
better than average writing in terms of vidya but still really substandard, especially the elements concerning morality
>new vegas
outrageously bad, not a single character or faction that wasn't paper thin
>alpha protocol
average
>pillars of eternity
same as kotor2

avellone a shit, obshitian a shit. as for who is best, Amy Hennig wrote all the good Legacy of Kain games so it's her.
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>>322974202
>Literally all you need is aesthetic appeal
Guess what you draw from in order to decide the aesthetics of a game?
Is Doom about demons and space marines because that's the optimal setting for the kind of gameplay it wanted to invoke?
Is Civilization about historical civs because the gameplay demands it to be so?
No. They're not.
Story means A LOT more than just narrative, and includes even basic things such as expectations about the function of a weapon or how entities will interact with one another. It permeates everything. And that's not even mentioning genres where the story is essential for the gameplay to function, such as RPGs and adventure games.

You're just the result of the inevitable pushback that comes from faggots in the gaming media saying that videogames don't need any gameplay to be worthwhile and needs to evolve beyond it's childishness. Then come people like you and say "WELL YEAH, THEN I SAY WE DON'T NEED -ANY- STORY!"

Come on Anon. Be reasonable.
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>>322963397
Keen to play KOTOR 2, just finished 1 yesterday and apart from the main plot, most of that game was pretty bland.

Also

>pretty distant and uncaring of Bastila through the entire game even though I'm going Light side
>after last confrontation I take her back to the Light side away from the Sith
>"I love you!"
>only responses are "I don't love you" or "I love you too!!!!!!"

Jesus that was cringe.
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>>322963397
>why is it Chris Avellone?

Because almost all others are complete hacks

And also because Avellone writes like a Dungeon Master and not a movie writer
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>>322971535
I absolutely hated Oblivion so bad, after all the hype I heard about it, how all those dungeons were repetitive and made with the same exact assets placed in a different manner, that awful magic system that just oozed laziness, those quests that don't give me any choices. I got so disappointed at the whole thing I decided to fucking boycott anything associated with Bethesda, so I skipped all modern Fallouts.
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>>322974483
Flawless Widescreen, save regularly though because it crashes and some save files corrupt.
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>>322974954
>>322974483

I'm playing through KotOR 1 right now, and damn, is the age showing.
The game just randomly decides when it wants to start up, and when it wants to turn black and never display any movies.
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>>322970881
Some are, KOTOR2 is the best star wars game I played.
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Other than Avellone who is a good vidya writing? I'll put my money on Mikael Hedberg
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Kotaro Uchikoshi
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>>322974738
Find me a game that was slammed for having a shitty story despite having great gameplay.

Then find me a game that was slammed for being buggy and unfun, but the story was good!

Guess which one is going to be easier to find?

This has nothing to do with the 'games don't need gameplay!!!' argument from SJWs or whatever, this is about releasing a game that actually works and is fun to play.

I wouldn't even be surprised if writers got paid more than programmers.
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>>322975071
It's really not a very good game desu, doubt I'll ever really play it again after my first time.
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>>322963397
It's an RPG boys, story doesn't matter it's all about the action.
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>>322973226
Vampire the masquerade
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>>322963397
1. He's a pretty good writer in his own right.
2. He understands that gameplay and narrative must mutually support one another.
3. He works in a genre (crpgs) where integrating narrative and mechanics is easier and more valued than a lot of other genres.
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>>322974912
Fallout 3 is more of the same. Might be worth slogging through if you enjoy exploring. New Vegas is nothing like Oblivion in terms of dungeon design. You might have the advantage to play NV if you've never played 3. You'll never notice what's been recycled because of it
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>>322974653
depends on if you think videogames are primarily a story-telling medium.
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>>322975208
Nvm, second to galaxies. But since that's not a thing anymore (beside EMU which I hear has its own problems) you should give koto2 a try, if you found kotor good you should enjoy the sequel.
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>>322975301
>Guess which one is going to be easier to find?
With the general quality of writing in vidya? Most likely the former.
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>>322970881
>>322970881
>Didn't play KOTOR2 because it was buggy
>Played KOTOR, a game just as buggy if not more.

You can't even play the first one anymore on steam because dozens of crash bugs
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>>322975632
Depends on the videogame - it's a flexible medium. Action movies don't need much story while dramatic movies do. Blockbusters need good cinematography, while some films have made amateur-style filming their gimmick. Assuming there's only one model of a videogame is silly.
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>>322974912
If you hate Bethesda, New Vegas will really bring your piss to a boil. The only flaw is how buggy it can be some times, which is entirely because Bethesda promised Obsidian to do the QA for the game, and then didn't do it.

Which ended up causing it's Metacritic score to get low enough that Obsidian didn't get the bonus for making the game.

That said, New Vegas is a fantastic game. It has a lot of well-designed dungeons, good weapon variety and systems, and it's really good at giving you as many choices to tackle situations as you could expect. It also actually gives a shit about RPG elements by having a plethora of different skill checks for various quests.
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>>322975301
And yet this is not a zero sum game, Anon.
I don't think anyone will dispute that a game has an easier time sustaining itself on its own two feet with only a great gameplay than with a great story.
What I'm saying is that this attitude of "story is worthless garbage, throw it all away I say, what a waste of money" is quite a feel degrees removed from "a game doesn't need a good story to necessarily function".

Hell, I'd be willing to bet that the money spent on a competent writer is a pittance compared to the money spent on actually crafting gameplay content. If that were not the case, a game like KotOR 2 that was rushed and under-funded wouldn't be able to present engaging writing the way that it does. Or Alpha Protocol wouldn't have one of the most wonderful reactive choice systems I've seen in these last few years.

Ultimately a game that has both elements working in concert makes for a far more memorable experience than one where both sides are fighting.
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>>322963397
Chris Avellone is definitely one of MY favorites, but that's mostly because my PERSONAL tastes are very welcoming to deconstruction and grey morality.

>>322965637
I've heard a lot of good things about Halo's lore but never read up on it and don't own any Microsoft consoles, what's a good way to get hooked on that universe?

>>322973027
And now Kitrkbridge is writing Minecraft Adventure for TellTale. It's a wonder that we haven't learned about the metaphysics of endermen yet.
Pic related is a writer who I used to look up to and still respect to a certain degree because of Bioshock 1 and Burial at Sea Episode 1, but I'm far more excited to see what the Minerva's Den team does with the Bioshock IP.
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>>322975950
Meh the problem with KOTOR2 wasn't that it was buggy it was just unfinished. The only Obsidian game that really stood out as buggy was New Vegas and they didn't even do QA for that game.
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>>322976378
I remember a few of the Halo books being pretty good, actually, and that's where most of the lore is. You could probably even just read the wiki if you wanted.
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>>322976378
>And now Kitrkbridge is writing Minecraft Adventure for TellTale.
What.
What?
WHAT?!
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>>322976546

Yep.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4291714/fullcredits
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>>322963397
>>322965637


Joseph Staten is my husbando.

Drew Karpyshyn is damn good, shame they made him work with retards for Ass Effect 2 and he left before 3.

That nigga at Obsidian who did New Vegas is also high on my list of "not retarded" writers in vidya.

Most "writers" who work in vidya either just suck ass or don't understand the medium they're working in and write like it's goddamned TV show or novel.
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>>322976378
The Minerva's den team, or at least its creative lead, left to start fullbright games so their major contribution to the Bioshock world is over.
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>>322976662

>Drew Karpyshyn

It's good to hear that he's back on board for the next Mass Effect. I won't be playing it, but I'm glad the series is returning to it's original writer.
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>>322976546
>>322976378
>And now Kitrkbridge is writing Minecraft Adventure for TellTale.
>>
>>322976662
Drew Karpyshyn wrote that fucking awful Revan book though. It was so embarrassingly bad and shit over everything the games had established. Fuck that guy.
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>>322976846

Well shit. 2K said they were continuing the series with the team that made the non-Levine games, so I though we'd get some more stuff in line with Minerva's Den (which I consider to be the truest sequel to Bioshock 1)
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>>322976378
>>322976546
>>322976658
>>322976971

How long do you guys estimate until we learn the Dragon of End is actually schizophrenic? You know Kirkbridge is going to give Minecraft some obtuse lore. It's what he does.
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>>322977357
>Dragon of End is actually schizophrenic
Isn't this pretty much elder scrolls?
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>>322977357
At some point he's going to make a lengthy rant about how the main character has achieved CHIM and that's why he can carry around buckets filled with lava in his pockets like it ain't no thing.
Also that the Ender Dragon is actually Lorkham.
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>>322977541
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>>322976957
Jokes on you, he's working on TOR instead.
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>>322967718
Literally no.

He quit halfway through the games development because the higherups. The mess we know now is completely different than the original plan, but if you look in the grimoire cards you can see some of what was originally planned.

He's working on Recore now as well, so fucking hyped
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>>322963397
I disagree.
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>>322978004
>The Inafune game
Not that anon, but you'll have to understand why I'm cautious
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>>322972768
It was a great mom moment from Kreia. She's trying to sit this one out to let you handle it, but she gets so pissed she kills all the people trying to kill you. If you take a lot of the stuff Kreia does out of context, she has constant mom moments. Of course, she doesn't really love the Exile, she loves how the Exile proves her right. She doesn't value anything you have to say until your final conversation, and only if you're light-sided.
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>>322979304
>It was a great mom moment from Kreia. She's trying to sit this one out to let you handle it, but she gets so pissed she kills all the people trying to kill you.
That's not really it, unless you count those mothers that use their children as personal trophies.

>Of course, she doesn't really love the Exile, she loves how the Exile proves her right.
Now that's exactly right. She's had you round up the masters and presented you to them as proof that her interpretation of the Force is right. When they refuse to understand and reject you, she slaps their shit to protect her greatest work and to forcibly open their eyes.
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>>322979304

>she doesn't really love the Exile

Doesn't Sion refer to you as her adopted son, though?
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>>322977357
I love how Kirkbride writes word salad and insane ranting. It's nonsense at first, but with an open mind and some ability to understand context, it makes perfect sense.
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>>322978457
he said
>best
not
>most based
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>>322979712

I honestly wouldn't bat an eye at Sermon of Vivec being studied at colleges.
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>>322976378
The early Halo books by Eric Nyland are actually quite decent. They aren't the deepest thing ever, but are the written version of a popcorn action movie without being poorly written or insulting to your intelligence.

Avoid the books by Traviss. This is universal advice.
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>>322979740

Anon, the most based game writer is Dmitry Glukhovsky, the original author of the Metro 2033 book and now the head writer of 4A Games
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>people in this thread denying the fact that Spike Lee brought the Story of College basketball player Freq to all true /v/idya patricians
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>>322979651
That's why I said "if you take a lot of the stuff Kreia does out of context"

>>322979651
You are, she does treat you like a child of sorts, it's just not a loving relationship. She dedicates herself to teaching you, that's kinda parental. I guess that's a big theme of KoTOR2, the perversion of the natural order. She looks like a parent, but it's an uncanny facsimile.
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>>322980000

Your quints have convinced me. Looking up Eric Nyland as I type
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>>322979842
That's a bit of an overstatement, or understatement, but I think it's definitely good for teaching teenagers critical thinking and high-level reading comprehension.
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>>322980260

>She dedicates herself to teaching you
>but it's an uncanny facsimile

Well that explains why she felt so motherly to me - that's almost exactly the relationship between me and my mother.
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>>322978457
Lake and Avellone should team up.
With Avellone's philosophical musings and dungeon master approach Lake's sense of literary and cinematic presentation they could make something really special.
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>>322964219
There is no gameplay or story, there is only plow through and dungeon at godspeed till you get a hard on
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>>322966202

>throwing "Yeah." onto the end of your statement
>implying you said anything remotely profound or powerful

Nice work, turbofaggot.
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>>322980202
Cool guy and all, personally loved the metro books, they were pretty cliched, but what isn't nowdays. Plus I enjoyed his prose.
That being said, Sam Lake is by definition the most based.
>based

adjective;

Having many girls, being a mansion, swagging to the maximum, and looking like jesus.
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>>322971090

Nice joke.
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>>322976662
>Drew Karpyshyn is damn good
God no, went full retard halfway during Mass Effect.
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>>322980525
I don't want to leave you hanging here, but there's no way you can say something like that and expect a response.
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>>322963397
>Nihilus
>good written character

Nihilus is one of the dumbest things about the EU in Star Wars I have ever seen. It's on EU Luke and Sheev levels are stupidity with their planet destroying and black hole crushing/creating shit.

Hell it's more stupid than Starkiller bringing down a Star Destroyer.
>>
>>322963397
You're joking, right?
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>>322981031

Why do you think I'm here? None of us would be here if we were socially competent.
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>>322981103
>Hell it's more stupid than Starkiller bringing down a Star Destroyer.
That ship was already crashing, Starkiller just diverted it a bit.
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>>322981270
We've all got mom problems, man. I'm sure you're a very good boy. It was just a bit too real for this conversation.
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>>322980386
If Beyonce or Lady Gaga had a college course for themselves, I don't see why it's too much of a stretch
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>>322980690
Not that guy, but purity of essence is a worthy literary tool. Sometimes a hammer really is the best tool, Nihilus was the blunt tool used to hammer home the point. His character wasn't what was interesting about him, Sion was much better in that regard. Nihilus was someone who believed that more force = more power and got lost in the pursuit of that power. The point of his character was to show that power is a far more subtle thing than the force, that's why one of the most successful sith barely used any physical force or force powers.
>>
>>322979304
Kreia says she loves the exile several times.
>>
>>322981439
Did you forget you literally have a minigame segment where you pull it down from the sky while force pushing TIE Fighters out of the way? If you do nothing, it continues to fly and even corrects itself back to how it should be.
>>
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>>322981439

That's not even the most ridiculous thing Galen did, anyway. People seem to forget that he beat:

- Shak Ti
- Vader
and
- Sheev

In the span of about a week. Don't forget infiltrating the Death Star BY HIMSELF while he was THE MOST WANTED MAN IN THE EMPIRE

Oh, and in the dark side ending expansion he also beats Luke.

Honestly, the EU is a place for exploration of the universe, and so I think you could make a decent argument for the validity of taking said universe to its' extremes.
>>
>>322981763
Upon re-reading, I apologize for my overuse of the word "tool" in my first few sentences. What can I say, I fucking love tools.
>>
>>322981804
Kreia is the second-best liar in the universe, only beaten by Sheev.
>>
>>322963397
Cant argue with the truthOP
>>
>>322981804
Kreia also says the Council took away your Force connection.

The things she tells you are meant to make you do things.
>>
>>322982161

Sheev is beaten by Vader though. According to the EU he had been planning Luke's usurping of Sheev since shortly after RotS
>>
>>322982161
She never lies to you.
>>
>>322981912
Shaak Ti like many Jedi became a broken husk of what they once were and was on a planet eating away our her sanity that was filled with the Dark Side, similar to Yoda and Dagobah, he just kept it together a little better.

Vader was a broken husk of what he once was and has been confirmed to be 80% weaker than what he was on Mustafar.

He didn't beat The Emperor, he managed to out duel him in lightsabers and that was it, and block his Force Lightning, which eventually blasted his ass into oblivion, even then Palpatine and Vader both got up like it was nothing and Vader is sitting there dying without his helmet while he talks.

He also kills Luke before he even becomes a proper Jedi in the Dark Side DLC.

Starkiller is a broken mary sue sure, but planet destroying is far far worse. Not even Anakin during The Clone Wars who managed to make the Light Side and Dark Side of the force, their living embodiment bow before him could destroy a planet or rip out of the life force of things. Not even Darth Bane, basically God of the Sith could do that shit.

EU can take things to the extreme sure, but there are some clear limits when you're eclipsing things by leagues and leagues just to make your own speshul snowflaek characters seem like they're important or one of the most powerful beings to ever grace the galaxy.
>>
>>322982475
>He also kills Luke
But he just defeats him and takes him as apprentice.
>>
>>322980000
>>322980301
Nylund is a fucking great writer of military Sci-fi. Fuck being "deep", he knows his subject matter and writes the shit out of some Chief adventures. He also has a Masters in Chemistry and some shit in Physics, so his descriptions of goings-on in space and Plasma weapons are fantastic, as are his details about SPARTAN-II augmentation.

The book versions of Blue team are based as Hell, too. The flashbacks in First Strike to their training on Reach are some of my favorite shit I've ever read. It's pulp Sci-Fi to the goddamned max, and I mean that in a good way.

Fall of Reach is pretty good, kinda meh compared to the others. I'd say First Strike is the best, also the best vidya tie-in material I've ever read considering how well it fits into the gap between Halo and Halo 2, it really doesn't have that "extended universe", fan-fic feel to it, it feels just as much part of Halo as the core games. Ghosts of Onyx is about on par with it, and goes over the SIII program.

Chief may have the biggest list of feats under his belt, but I haven't met anyone IRL who's read Ghosts of Onyx that doesn't consider Kurt to be the most based.
>>
>>322982475
>Shak Ti
>he
>>
>>322982161
>Malak manages to deceive his master so hard that even after challenging him for supremacy as a Sith he still manages to get the surprise attack on Revan
>Darth Plagueis is so deceiving that he manages to not only fake his death but create the First Order and essentially take Palpatine's place after his death (assuming Snoke is Plagueis and at this point it's blindingly obvious with the Novel and everything too)
>Vader for all his cold hatred and only having the Dark Side and The Emperor left manages to deceive and turn back to the Light at the very end without Palpatine knowing (even if we go into the EU he's been trying to get Palpatine killed for all that transpired since RotS for 25 years before RotJ)

Kreia sucks ass and uses some fancy words to try and deceive you into believing her way is the only way, which is a typical Sith trait. She's smart sure, but nowhere near smarter than half the Sith out there.
>>
>>322982750
>reading comprehension
>you
>>322982679
Either way the point stands on his defeating Luke, I couldn't remember if he killed or defeated him. Luke wasn't a proper Jedi by any means then and if Starkiller could beat Vader he could easily beat Luke on Hoth.
>>
>>322982812
>I have no idea what I'm talking about
>>
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>>322963397
>not based Sam Lake
>>
>>322982719
>video game novel author
>good writer
lol no. /v/ has the worst fucking taste in books, mostly because you're all retards who can only read something if it's related to video games in some way.

Read Gibson if you want an actual good entry level sci-fi writer.
>>
>>322982719

Like I said, I have no experience with the Halo universe. Will I be lost if I jump right in to First strike?
>>
>>322982906
Learn English you retard. A pronoun used like that refers back to the subject of the sentence.
>>
>>322983074
Doesn't matter if it was proper or not, plenty of people don't actually speak with proper English. It's not hard to understand he was referring to Yoda in that case, considering he followed that up immediately after, and that he had previously said Shaak Ti was a woman.
>>
>>322983057
Sadly yes. Read Fall of Reach, watch a Silent Let's Play of Halo CE or read The Flood if you like hearing about every side of the equation, then read First Strike.
>>
>>322983057
Yeah, mildly
Easy to brush up on the halopedia about plot details, the gist of the story is easy to grasp
The Forerunner Trilogy by Greg "The Motherfucking" Bear is good for what it was, although I disagree with the plot retcon that humans aren't the descendants of Rorerunners
Still a solid trilogy. The consensus on the Kilo-Five Trilogy by Karen Travis has been to avoid though
>>
>>322981673
>Reading newspaper this morning
>Some adjunct professor at Rutgers is whining that the college decided not to continue his "Politicizing Beyonce" course
>Is offended that the college doesn't take his course proclaiming Beyonce to be a major figure in Feminism history
>Championing vapid pop songs and grrrrrl power as serious academic texts

Whenever I get annoyed by how little academia respects games and game narratives, I remind myself that being ignored by these chucklefucks is the highest praise possible.
>>
>>322963397
Who are lead writers for Valve games?
>>
>>322983743
This isn't real, is it?
>>
>>322983037
I've read my share of Gibson, douchebag. Nylund wrote other shit before getting contracted to write Halo novels, and those Halo novels would have stood on their own without the games attached to them. The same can't be said of Karen Traviss'.

I went in expecting shit and got my favorite trilogy of pulp Sci-Fi ever. My only regret is that he didn't continue after GoO. But IDK why I'm replying to a shitty troll.

>>322983057
Do you have an Xbox Hueg? Or a PC for the PC versions of 1 and 2?

The order goes The Fall of Reach > Halo CE > First Strike > Ghosts of Onyx (not a direct tie-in, but happens before 3 IIRC) > 3.

If you're going to read them, I'd at least play those 3 games, since it would be a damn shame for you to get all that backstory built up and then miss out on Chief and Cortana's moment in the level "Cortana" in Halo 3. It was made when Staten/Bungie were still closely collaborating with Nylund so their extended universe was referenced a little in 3, and it kind of brings Chief and Cortana's relationship full circle.

Which is later shit on by 343i and Halo 4.
>>
>>322983934
* > 2

Not 3. GoO takes place during 2, it's all before 3.
>>
>>322983934
>>322984060
Double Addendum:

First Strike is just before 2.

So FoR > CE > First Strike > 2/Ghosts of Onyx > 3
>>
>>322982475
>just to make your own speshul snowflaek characters seem like they're important or one of the most powerful beings to ever grace the galaxy.
Funny you say this, the whole point of Nihilus was the exact opposite. He was nothing, just as his name would suggest.
>>
>>322983932
what the beyonce thing or the beyond two souls thing?
>>
>>322963397
>Who do you think is the best writer for vidya

Whoever wrote Legacy of Kain Soul Reaver

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENosWOAWUgo

>Kain pulls the "just as planned speech" and how this was all "for Raziel's good"
>Raziel calls him out on it
>Kain admits he doesn't really understand shit
>Kain offers a bunch of grandiose shit about transcendence
>Raziel again points out all he's doing is just rationalizing the litany of bullshit he's done over the course of the story
>Again Kain with the fucking grandiose "this is all fated" bullshit
>Raziel asks Kain why the fuck he thought it was a good idea to turn a Seraphim
>More grandiose Kain bullshit, now fate is a game apparently
>Raziel explains Kain is just wound up rationalizing all his morals for his own agenda

Actual content from BBEG talking to Protag instead of just HURR BOSS FIGHT TIME
>>
>>322963397
Josh Sawyer and John Gonzalez are my favourites. If only for what they did in New Vegas. That game is easily the best written video game, period.
>>
>>322984683
Not really
>>
>>322984683
>That game is easily the best written video game, period.

Calm down Bethesdrone
>>
>>322974669
(you)
>>
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>>322984806
Yes, really. There's so much socio-political and philosophical commentary going on between the lines that it's not even funny.

Plus, the dialogue is just well written. The characters and their actions feel believable, everything is justified within-universe and all of the thematic overtones fit somewhere into each quest.

Just listen to Caesar's dialogue. The whole hegelian dialectics thing really makes the game.
>>
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>>322984883
Bethesda didn't even work on New Vegas, you fucking retard.
>>
>>322985064
>Yes, really. There's so much socio-political and philosophical commentary going on between the lines that it's not even funny.
You're acting like this is a new thing. Look, I'm a massive fan of the writing and world building in New Vegas. But to say it is the "best written video game, period." is a zealous overstatement.
>>
>>322982812
>Darth Plagueis is so deceiving that he manages to not only fake his death but create the First Order and essentially take Palpatine's place after his death (assuming Snoke is Plagueis and at this point it's blindingly obvious with the Novel and everything too)
Snoke isn't Plagueis, Palpatine killed him in his sleep and Snoke looks human, something Plagueis is not.
>>
>>322985180
>Published by Bethesda
>Made on the engine created by Bethesda
>Using Bethesda assets
>People from the team that worked on Fallout 3 worked on Fallout New Vegas
>>
>>322985727
This just weak b8
>>
>>322985727
Clever, but you still didn't prove him wrong.
>>
>>322985831
>Bethesda didn't even work on New Vegas
>They literally did

Am I missing something?
>>
>>322985526
It is, though. The shandification of its narrative allows for an intricate and interrelated story that is unparalleled in its medium.
>>
>>322985906
>Am I missing something?
Yes, you've lost your fucking mind.
>>
>>322985831
The point is if you think New Vegas is the best written game ever, you have shockingly low standards
>>
Who ever did Legacy of Kain
>>
>>322967529
Is the priest guy written by Avellone? He was awesome.
>>
>>322986012
You were wrong nigger
>>
Chris has never been that good. KOTOR 2 was am abomination that tried to literally piggyback on the plot of the first game.
>>
>>322963397
>friend tells me he doesn't like Avellone's writing in Kotor2
>I ask him why
>"because I dont like the way he writes romance."
that was the day I realized he was just like one of those Tumblr type fans who mainly care for who to fuck in Bioware games more than actual story.
>>
>>322986125

Durance, yes

He also wrote the Grieving Mother
>>
>>322985906
You're missing the fact that it was developed by Obsidian. They wrote all of it, designed all of it and programmed all of it. The only thing that they didn't do was create the assets that were imported from Fallout 3 - which were just meshes and textures.
>>
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>>322963397
Pic related

Lead writer for the best TES game
>>
>>322986349
Triggered.
Can you believe that he won a fucking award for Fallout 3's writing?

How low of a standard do people have?
>>
I'm in the hardest star wars mood at the moment

I saw TFA
then I went back and watched the original and prequel trilogies
then I bought both KoToRs and all the Jedi Knight games (I've only finished Dark Forces so far
Now I just wanna watch some of the TV shows

help
>>
>>322986464
His Fallout writing is shit


But I like his TES writing
>>
>>322967465
Additionally, the game doesn't force you to agree with Kreia. You can defy her until the end with reasoning that the game doesn't fault you for (other than influence lost: Kreia) and still beat her. That's another thing that I love about Kotor II. It's trying to send you a message, but it doesn't punish you for disagreeing.
>>
>>322986243
>The Empire Strikes Back was an abomination that tried to literally piggyback on the plot of the first movie

>>322986347
I'm not missing that fact. He said Bethesda didn't work on New Vegas, but they did. That's all I said.
My original point before we got sidetracked was "Fallout" and "the best written video game, period." shouldn't be in the same sentence
>>
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>>322986658
But the best TES game is Morrowind, and Kirkbride did most of the writing.

Pic related.
>>
>>322986509
Watch the star wars christmas special. It's the best form of star wars related media ever made. Waiting on the blu-ray special edition now.
>>
>>322971006
Different games strive for different things.

Not that hard to understand.
>>
>>322986509
play Star Wars kinect and only do the dancing game
>>
>>322986824
Emil did the writing for one Morrowind Dlc
>>
>>322986509
Same boat minus the TV show and prequels (why would you do that to yourself.)
The movie wasn't even that great but it really made me want to go back and play some of those vidyas.
>>
>>322982446
She doesn't have any DUDE IT'S A PRANK moments, but she manipulates you constantly
>>
John Gonzalez and brian mitsoda are also really good
>>
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>>322986824
>you will never be as high as Kirkbride
He must have found the right combination of drugs, coffee, and sleep deprivation to simulate Skooma.
>>
>>322974202
an RPG having good writing is more important than good gameplay. If I cannot properly role-play but can shoot shit in spectacular ways I'll just go pick up an FPS instead

>>322974282
this
>>
>>322986761
KOTOR 2's problems were far more dire. It was literally a 'KOTOR tourism' game where you literally trace Revan's path and even the characters admit as much.

The few moments they go off the beaten path didn't save it.
>>
>>322974410
the salvager chick outside the jedi enclave sells a lot of stuff. also the crystal levels with you. If you're dark side there's a chick on onderon who can trade a visa for a p good crystal
>>
>>322987102
The worst one.
>>
>>322982446
You must be really stupid if you think that
The entire game she is manipulating you
She even explains how she does it and you ask "Have you done this to me?", and she says, "No, but you wouldn't know it if I did".
>>
>>322984679
That would be Amy Hennig bruh.
>>
>>322986509
Go straight to Clone Wars and then Star Wars Rebels. They cancelled Clone Wars but pretty much pick up at Rebels
>>
>>322987552
What did you not like about Bloodmoon?
>>
>>322986725
I disagree with that. The game punishes you by railroading you into a hackneyed scenario where Kreia goes Sith. They should have allowed you to completely ditch her from the story if you wanted. Instead you just do whatever she wants you to do. She literally breathes down your neck the whole game. It is overt.
>>
>Sheev
Stop guys stop making me laugh
>>
>>322979304
>kreia will never bake you cookies
>>
>>322984679
Fuck, Amy Henig is working on a new star wars game.

Please don't be shit.
>>
So can anyone explain to me why Sith feel the need to wear black?
Its pretty cliche and cheesy isnt it?
>>
>>322985991
That's tvtropes-tier, just call it naturalistic
>>
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>>322983023
>>322980890
My niggas
>>
>>322988092
The intended story included either Kreia or Atris becoming Darth Traya. Like most of the story it was cut to push the game out in time for Christmas.
>>
>>322988334
That's Star Wars for you. They've all had pretty simplistic imagery. Just look at Rey.
>>
>>322988405
Maybe that is why. It felt like the game just led to a singular scenario and all the backstory never really panned out. Atton was a huge disappointment.
>>
>>322988334
Probably because their actual Sith lore and culture demands it. They have weird Sith engravings, black clothing and red sabers because that apparently is the attire of ancient Siths.
>>
>>322988131
What is more deadly? That which has the high ground, or that which can spin?
>>
>>322987347
It's not that extreme most of the time. He usually just locks himself in a closet for three or so days with only a pack of cigars.
>>
>>322988334
classic shit.
when you break it all down, Star Wars is fantasy in space. You got the rightous hero, wise old mentor, a princess and a wise cracking rogue, all facing a menacing dark knight with his evil wizard master.
>>
>>322988724
So in other words, some vague made up reason to justify looking like edgy McDefault bad guys?
>>
>>322988787

Neither. It's actually the one who has twenty good men.
>>
>>322989041
It's treason, then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve1889zS030
>>
>>322988865
Maybe it was meant to emulate the dark samurai outfits of certain Japanese feudal clans.
>>
>>322989210
What the fuck were they thinking
>>
So any other games that have good writing? It's too rare in this medium. I'm kind of sick of the same premise and setting to the games.
>>
>>322989392
Read books

I'm serious. Once you get into real books (ie books that have nothing to do with video games) you'll realize how vapid all video game writing is.
>>
>>322975230
This.
Also, Shu Takumi, Sam Lake, and the dudes from CD Projekt RED.
>>
>>322988865
Star wars is cheeseball shit anon. I don't know why you feel like taking down movies made for teens and children. They were designed simple.
>>
>>322989682
Recommend
>>
>>322989361
They let the Sheev Side flow through them, enabling them to greater heights of memery
>>
>>322989392
Besides any so far ITT?

Grim Fandago and Nier come to mind
>>
>>322989682
That's pretentious as fuck. Video game writing needs to be understood by how it works within the medium, the quality of books has nothing to do with it.
>>
>>322989392
The Witcher and Planescape: Torment
>>
Just found out that Chris is going to work on Divinity: OS 2. I might buy it just to see what he comes up with.
>>
>>322989976
>video game writing needs to be understood by how it works within the medium
How the story mixes with the gameplay is not an indication of the quality of writing, it is an indication of how enjoyable the story is. Story and how it interacts with the game systems is not the same thing as the quality of the writing.

Not to mention the games that are always mentioned in threads like these are RPGs where the story is read or recited by a voice actor almost like a book/audio book.
>>
>>322989976
How it works within the medium is usually badly or as an afterthought. Even when the writing is good, it almost always suffers from the sheer amount of minute-to-minute combat encounters 99% of games feature.
>>
>>322989948
>Grim Fandango

Yes, pretty much every graphic adventure ever has good writing.

>>322989976
Video games are art. And like every work of art it needs to be consistent and coherent. Crappy books/video games are the result of lack of detail, laziness and lack of quality.
>>
>>322989361

I thought Palpatine was the best thing about the prequels, Ian is a legitimately great actor
>>
>>322990358
But stories are still not comparable between books and games because they have different objectives. You would never get away with comparing the plot of a book to the plot of a movie in film criticism circles. If you want to say it's bad because it's all exposition from characters, that's another thing entirely.
>>
>>322990472
>Yes, pretty much every graphic adventure ever has good writing.

Nah. There are many that are as banal as any other genre. Even more so sometimes.
>>
>>322990832
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-7ybCze-Cg
>>
>>322963397
reminder that KOTOR2cucks parrot the opinions of Thunderf00t, Errant signal, and ADoseofBuckley
>>
>>322989682
Are there video games equivalent to literary fiction?
>>
>>322991193
Thanks for the bump, fagboy.
>>
>>322991289
literally who? sounds like a bunch of projection since you clearly know these people
why do you post this every fucking thread autist
>>
>>322991289
Kotor II has the best written story in any Star Wars product and I've never heard of those people.
>>
>>322991472
Is it really an achievement when the bar is really low to begin with?
>>
>>322991458
>I can not handle truth
>>322991472
>best written story
Maybe if you are 12 years old
>>
>>322991857
you type like you're 12 years old
>>
>>322991857
I'm sure you'll tell us all what's the best written Star Wars product anytime then
>>
>>322991193
Avellone is legit not a good game designer. Old World Blues is proof of this
>>
>>322983743
>Rutgers
They also offer a course about Bruce Springsteen.
>>
>>322992392
Thrawn trilogy reddit reject
>>
>>322963397
Oh great, another muh story muh visual novel thread. We've had enough of these notgames lately what's with the movies on consoles too.
>>
>>322992983
Rutgers is just a joke in general
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO_XGairouY
>>
>>322994367
oh fuck off with this song already
>>
>>322984883

Totally unique story, setting, dialogue and characters. Name one game thats better written
>>
>>322994367
Some Folks Are Born (It Ain't Me) is the perfect trailer song, the Guile's Theme of /tv/
>>
>>322994614
>Unique
>Based on a real place

wew

>Name one game thats better written

I'll name more than one

Kotor 2
Deus Ex Human Revolution
Witcher 2
Witcher 3
Red Dead Redemption

To name a few
>>
>>322993845
Leave the thread then buddy.
>>
>>322994614
Anything to say or did I just blow you the fuck out?
>>
>>322985064
>Just listen to Caesar's dialogue. The whole hegelian dialectics thing really makes the game.
No, it doesn't. In fact, it's the worst part of the game, discounting the stupid orientalist Cold War liberal political paradigm (ie; hur dur occidental demogracy bersus oriendal dodalidarianism lmao :DDD). Whoever wrote this has absolutely no idea what Hegel's philosophy is, and its just shoehorned into Caesar's dialogue because Hegel is continually caricatured as being a totalitarian thinker, even though he wasn't.
>>
>>322988405
You learn something new everyday, eh?

Can someone explain to me what Kotor II's plot was supposed to be if they hadn't been rushed to release it?
>>
Bastila >>>>> shit > Mission Vao > dogshit > Visas > Handmaiden
>>
>>322971535
>Base game is mostly bug free at this point
fucking nope.

http://www.nexusmods.com/mods/130/readmes/Yukichigai%20Unofficial%20Patch%20-%20YUP_readme.txt
>>
>>322996934
this to be honest family
>>
>>322998610
Canderous > HK-47 > Bastila >>>>> shit
Canderous > HK-47 > Visas > Atton >>>>> shit (maybe with Bao and Kreia as meh)
>>
>>322998610
Handmaiden = Visas > Mission > Bastila's Mom > Bastila >> Mira >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Juhani
>>
>>322999320
This guy knows whats up
Canderous x Hk x Revan love triangle
>>
>>322999441
:)
>>
>>322996934
>>322999104
Except you're both wrong. Hegel's philosophy was used in the game to give a formula and presentable theory to the NCR/Legion dichotomy and conflict. Josh Sawyer himself told John Gonzalez to give Caesar a flawed understanding of it, one that he could have garnered from a lack of proper sources.
>>
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>>322986509
Watch The Clone Wars and Rebels. Both are good.
>>
>>322963892
how does someone who has no friends even get into dungeon mastering

I've always liked creating fantasy worlds in my head, but none of the friends I do have are into D&D or anything of the sort and I don't really want to go into the hobby shops in my town because they're all in the "ey cracka watchu doin here" section of the town

>>322965248
Is the Clone Wars tv show ACTUALLY good

that's the one with the Twi'lek girl who has a white lightsaber, right
>>
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>>322999656
>Josh Sawyer himself told John Gonzalez to give Caesar a flawed understanding of it, one that he could have garnered from a lack of proper sources.
gib proofs
>>
>>322967942
>Tom Jubert
Hi, Tom!

But seriously, the "kid" can write.
>>
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>>323000282
Here's a loose source. I've seen it expanded somewhere before in an interview, but I can't cite anything else at the moment.
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>>322976957
>won't be playing it
Why? Are you boycotting EA?
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>>322999656
So, you're saying that Caesar read somewhere that Hegel was totalitarian then adopted a caricature of Hegel's philosophy, the triad of thesis-antithesis-synthesis (something Hegel actually never advocated by the way) that has nothing to do with why Hegel was ever characterized as such, just to be edgy.

Hell, they don't even do it right. The typical Hegel-as-totalitarian (mis)interpretation makes the nation-state the ultimate culmination of God's divine will, with each successive historical epoch defined by the military domination of a particular nation-state, driven by constant war and the subjugation of the individual by the state, whose dominance is ordained by God. But no, instead they have to use pop "philosophy" pleb-tier drivel to drive the point that Caesar is a fascist by pointing at his use of Hegel.

>>323000932
This doesn't prove that Obsidian made Caesar misinterpret Hegel in purpose. Because Hegel-as-totalitarian put Hegel studies back by three decades and continues to this day reiterated by idiots who don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
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>>322999320
>>322999347
>Bastila not on top
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>>323001474
The vagina did the thinking for her. She was somewhat alright near the end, before being abducted, when she opened up to you. And then, if playing Dark Side, she once again becomes retarded, since she's not controlling the Dark Side, but the Dark Side is controlling her(akin to Chaos worshippers in 40k). I would've loved it if you could have been the one to tempt her to chaos("it is such a quiet thing to fall...").
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>>323001827
To the dark side* kek
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>>323001827
Do you think Kreia will approve of banging Bastila? She was on cockblock mode everytime
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>>323001972
Who cares what that old hag thinks? Both Revan and the Exile were Dark Side, not pseudo-grey Jedis, in my playthroughs.
>>323001378
Philosophy major, I presume?
>>
>>323001474
They ruined her character towards the end when she turns into an edgelord
She was better as an uptight posh bitch
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>>323002352
>not loosening the uptight posh bitch
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>>323002352
She returns to you with the power of love :^)
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>>323002382
Thats good too, but when she gets nabbed by Malak and receives 12 inches of Sith cock she turns to shit
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>>323001378
Caesar doesn't think that Hegel is totalitarian at all - did you even play the game?

He simply sees the formula as a way to envision history as a sequence of dialectical events that can justify his actions. He views the NCR as the original thesis in the Wasteland itself, and his Legion as the antithesis which will conquer and transform the NCR from a bureaucracy into a military dictatorship that can "protect its citizens and the power of its dictator".

We're talking about a man who literally thinks that by envisioning himself as Julius Caesar and emulating him crossing the Rubicon (the Colorado) he will solve all of the world's problems.
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>>323002352
I completely agree. As I've said, my Revan was Sith through and through and I wouldn't have minded Bastila as Sith waifu, but only if it was through persuasion, not brainwashing. It would have been awesome if the plot was made in such a way that you could talk about the Revan reveal with her before the abduction and convince her to become your Sith apprentice by her own will.
>>
>>323002571
>We're talking about a man who literally thinks that by envisioning himself as Julius Caesar and emulating him crossing the Rubicon (the Colorado) he will solve all of the world's problems.

And thus completely misrepresenting Julius Caesar and what he stood for
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>>322982679
>starkiller training luke
And people thought eu luke was op as fuck
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>>323002352
Bastila was always an edgelord. Her fall to the dark side was simply her accepting her real nature.
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>>323002847
She just needed the D to calm down

Just like Atris in KOTOR2
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>>323000010
Play online. Use /tg/ gamefinders, or ask online friends, or look for games on Roll20.
>>
>>323002847
It was certainly not. I do agree that her real nature was Dark Side, but she didn't have a proper 'fall', she was brainwashed by Malak.

Bastila is pretty much a chick with daddy issues. As I've said here >>323002584 her subplot would have been much better if by entering a romance with her in which she perceives you as a father figure, you make her cast off her Jedi teachings and ask you to become her mentor.
>>
Tanaka Romeo, Ou Jackson, Narahara Ittetsu, Sca-ji etc. etc.
>>
>>323002779
It's deliberate. Caesar takes whatever pieces of history he finds useful and disregards things he doesn't find useful. He has specific goals and uses history as a tool to meet those goals. When history doesn't help him, he doesn't use it. Even things like a reluctance to use advanced technology have more to do with his desire to keep the Legion ignorant/dependent on him than with anything "historical". Control is very important to him, even if it means that the people who serve him lack any of the medical knowledge necessary to help diagnose or treat his problems. It's very important for Caesar to maintain that the Legion is different. It is physically different, has different values, and different priorities. When Romans were wearing pants, they thought people wearing skirts were barbarians. When Romans wore togas, they thought people wearing pants were barbarians. People on the other side of that river wear pants. Our identity is good, your identity is bad.

Clearly there are many things Caesar does that work against his goals, or choices he made to emphasize one goal over a conflicting goal and it resulted in problems. But it's important to understand that Caesar calls the shots in the Legion. And when Caesar's not around, it's someone following his lead. Whether that's Lanius or Joshua Graham, there's not going to be a fun party when one of these guys rolls into your town. Events in the vein of Tamerlane and Simon de Montfort are going to happen. Events that culminate in pyramids of human heads, mass blindings, and burning a cathedral down with an entire congregation inside.
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Kinoko Nasu
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>>323003278
Do you think Lanius represents the spirit of Pagan Rome, while Graham of Christian Rome?
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>>323003940
No, not quite.
But Graham is an incredibly interesting character. He certainly has a sense of 'Deus Volt' about him.

Lanius, I think, is interesting, too. His is a brutal nature, and more likely than not represents the incarnation of the Legion's animosity. He was a great boss, especially if you used speech checks against him.
>>
>>323000010
>Is the Clone Wars tv show ACTUALLY good
no, it's terrible
>>
>>322965610
I think he has good ideas/concepts but doesnt know how to put everything together correctly.
>>
>>323003278
You make it sound like he could just as easily be any number of dictatorial figures throughout history, Julius Caesar however isn't among them. Julius was one of the people against the "people wearing pants are barbarians" mentality. The Boni were the ones enforcing this idea of status and class, Julius tried to reform it and make Rome a more approachable place for foreigners. He was tired of having to wage wars for more territory and believed it should be done through diplomacy. People should WANT to live in the republic, not fear it. The upper class hated him for his radical views and tried to stop him at every opportunity, eventually forcing his hand with the crossing of the Rubicon. He wanted to extend the Roman citizenship to any who were living in the republic not just those of Roman blood. He also promised that once he had cemented his reforms he would hand Rome back to the people and the new republic (I somehow doubt it however, the people loved him and he had absolute power).

Caesar's Legion in New Vegas have this " lets kill everything and enslave everything until there's nothing left to kill or enslave, kill those who use drugs, kill those who use technology, kill those barbarians in pants because they're subhuman scum, AVE TRVE TO CAESAR" mentality, its just downright dumb and makes no sense. They are more like Nazi's than Romans.
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>>323004265
I'm not referring to the whole medieval Catholic West and their 'Roman' legacy, but more akin to the Eastern Roman('Byzantine') Empire. Just like the 'Byzantines' perceived themselves as a New Israel, so does Graham with his New Canaanites. And both the 'Byzantines' and him perceive those not of the faith as barbarians, especially if you go the route of executing Salt-upon-Wounds.

He set about training his army in the "Way of the Canaanite," and soon the New Canaanites and tribes of Zion were feared well into the Mojave.
>He set about training his army in the "Way of the Canaanite"
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>>323004821
>its just downright dumb and makes no sense
The Nazis existed. If they can exist, so can Caesar's Legion. You're acting like people have never misinterpreted a society or philosophy before.

Caesar very possibly represents the absolute extreme of autocracy and totalitarianism. He doesn't even want to leave an heir. He hates hereditary dictatorships so much that he refuses to produce offspring.

The Legion make sense from both a sociopolitical and thematic perspective. They fit incredibly well into Fallout.

You're speaking as though someone who has never played the game before but is instead refuting what is obviously a deliberately skewed written character/faction on the basis of them not perfectly emulating the society that they seek to.

Caesar even says that he's only at the present emulating one side of Rome, and that he will fulfill his plans after he has taken the Mojave and then assimilated the NCR.
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>>323002571
>Caesar doesn't think that Hegel is totalitarian at all - did you even play the game?
No, but anyone vaguely familiar with Hegel will tell you that he's (incorrectly) associated with totalitarianism and Prussian monarchism. Obsidian really made a point to try to portray the Legion as totalitarian, and the reference to Hegel is just a drop in the bucket for that. Caesar explicitly states that his model state, the Legion, is totalitarian, and its fairly obvious that he got this model from what he read in old books. Ergo, logic goes Caesar read somewhere that Hegel was totalitarian, so he incorporated him into his ideology, but he doesn't even do that right.

>>323002779
My point isn't whether or not Caesar misinterprets Hegel. That is a given. This thread isn't about Caesar, it's about writing. My problem is that (1) it is Obsidian that is misinterpreting Hegel by peddling the age old myth of Hegel-as-totalitarian, and (2) they don't even do it right.

>>323002079
>Philosophy major, I presume?
no

>>323004821
>They are more like Nazi's than Romans.
You mean fascists. Also, fascists constantly evoke the image of Rome.
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>>323005813
>did you even play the game?
>no

We have nothing more to discuss.
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>>323005813
Maybe you could help me with something. How do I get into metaphysics? I've tried reading the likes of Evola and Guenon, but they allude to quite a few concepts that I am not familiar with. Hell, even Eliade is somewhat hard to read.
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>>322994614
>Totally unique story, setting, dialogue and characters
>Literally took everything from Van Buren
that's some fine memery
>>
>>323005398
I'm not saying they cant exist, I'm just saying its not the magical sophistical masterpiece of writing you're making it out to be. To me it just seems like lazy writing. Writing a bland character but using a bunch of big words and historical references to describe said character doesn't make it any less bland.

But that's just like, my opinion, man.

>>323005813
Romans were facists m8
Just not in the modern sense that you're thinking of. Facism has accrued a lot of negative connotations in recent history. It's a lot more extreme now than it was then.
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>>323005941
>>did you even play the game?
>>no
>We have nothing more to discuss.
The "No" was for Caesar calling Hegel totalitarian, faggot.
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>>323006302
forgot pic
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>>323006141
Start with The Greeks

Not even a joke. Start there and go wherever you want after.
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>>323006389
So after the Greeks I can skip to whatever philosophers catch my eye?
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>>323006465
More or less.
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>>323006141
Most of those authors are oriental mystics. If you want to understand a mystic's metaphysics, you should probably try to understand the religious background for their work.
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>thread about video games
>ends up being about Roman history and metaphysics

Never change /v/
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>>323006243
>Romans were facists m8
No they weren't. The Romans didn't advocate for either far-right political policies and beliefs, nor totalitarian government because neither didn't exist until modern society. I called the Legion fascists over nazis because the Legion is definitely fascist, but they aren't nazis.
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>>322999976
Is there no point in watching the full series as is and not watching specific episodes?
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>>323008829
no, but why would you waste all your time doing that
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>>323008818
>No they weren't

Yes they were. They were basically the birth of fascism, which as I said was very different from your modern interpretation of fascism.
>>
this is my favorite we wuz kings song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4scF1ogXcB4
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