ITT Shit game mechanics
I'll start: Encumbrance
>"I know, we'll have the players run a tedious errand before they can enjoy any more of the game! Everybody loves chores!"
>tfw rarely like fps games, but when I do they're space adventure fps like republic commando and metroid prime
There's a perfect world in my mind where military shooters were all third person instead, because those are always more fun.
Less of a mechanic and more of a design choice but
RE did zombies well that one time. Then they kept doing it. Then every other game in existence did it. Add on every old-school semi-dnd inspired game starting you off either in sewers or against zombies.
Zombies are old, boring, and a detriment to your fucking game.
This. First thing I do in every game. Especially bullshit in fantasy games with magic. I got enough wealth to buy a country but not a Bag of Holding or Portable Hole? Fuck off.
Yeah man I hate shit like Encumbrance.
Same shit like weapons breaking, what the fuck is that good for? Also, limited mana? Just have it regenerate. I can say the same for health, why not just have it generate? And no fast travel, oh my god, why the fuck wouldn't you have fast travel? Who wants to walk everywhere? Same shit with getting better gear, why not just give me the good stuff right from the start? Save me the hassle.
It seriously pisses me off, why don't games just remove all the boring shit? I want to have FUN.
2/10 made me reply, here's your (You)
>Same shit like weapons breaking, what the fuck is that good for?
It's annoying, and I agree. The fact a sword in real life gets dull fast and breaks is an annoyance, and tool/weapon breaking only truly serve purpose in survival games.
> Also, limited mana? Just have it regenerate.
I'd argue with a cooldown or regeneration rate low enough you can't spam it all day making magic outclass every type of other combat.
>I can say the same for health, why not just have it generate?
If it's way slower than health and it doesn't regenerate in combat, AKA not making potions and healing spells and medkits useless, I don't see why not.
>And no fast travel, oh my god, why the fuck wouldn't you have fast travel?
Unless the game is pretty big in size or overall uneventful and tedious (skyrim) it shouldn't have fast travel.
>Same shit with getting better gear, why not just give me the good stuff right from the start? Save me the hassle.
Because having better stuff overtime gives you a sense of progression and makes you play the damn game?
>a whole thread of whiny babies complaining about mechanics because they're big whiny casual diaper wearing babies
Horrible thread OP. You're just giving whiny children a place to try and justify how casual they are.
>What is inventory management
Besides how is it even possible to go above the weight limit unless you hoard literally every item you come across?
>only carrying the armor and weapons you need, a bit of food, and a handful of potions?
I usually mod it out of all Bethesda games because they're the worst offenders. Pretty much the only time encumbrance works as anything other than a time waster is in horror games.
Does anyone even bother with crafting in NV?
It seems like it would've been more viable if crafting mats weighed nothing or at least weren't as heavy.
I don't go that far I usually stick to around 600, forces me to limit the amount of clutter I have in my inventory.
If I didn't force a limit on myself I'd be picking up everything.
Encumbrance forces the player to make choices what loot to carry or how much to prepare for a mission or journey. By proxy it also forces the player to make character choices and the beginning and during leveling.
>why am I being challenged
>implying this is the slightest bit true
Encumbrance forces the player to make a walk back to the bottomless box he has somewhere inconveniently far away before coming all the way back to pick up the other stuff anyway. Literally the only games that even attempt to do your version right are horror games. I bet you believed it when they told you the McNuggets were all white meat, too, faggot.
Hoarding lootwhore faggots are the worst and are part of the reason the genre has been scrubbed of all real rpg mechanics, because people can't deal with being impeded or having consequences for their actions.
>Encumbrance forces the player to make a walk back to the bottomless box he has somewhere inconveniently far away before coming all the way back to pick up the other stuff anyway
Or you could just pick up the shit that is important.
>tfw playing Gothic/Risen series
>no fucking carryweight cap and I can just pick up everything I see
Encumbrance is not challenging or fun. Combat, character interactions, exploration, story, character progression, etc. are. Encumbrance is a chore they put in front of all of those things to mask that they haven't done those things well enough.
>enjoys inventory management
>calls other people autistic
>Encumbrance is not challenging or fun. Combat, character interactions, exploration, story, character progression, etc. are. Encumbrance is a chore they put in front of all of those things to mask that they haven't done those things well enough.
Huh, of course it is. It gives a taste of survival and planning to your gameplay. Of cource this breaks if you play RPGs like a faggot and maximise your looting by walking all the way back to base every kill. You're probably the kind of person who saves the game before every battle becaue oh my you could actually die.
>Huh, of course it is. It gives a taste of survival and planning to your gameplay.
This would've been true if you couldn't teleport everywhere to store and sell shit.
But you can so you're full of shit, of course it's more profitable to pick the stuff you might need later warp and store it, or pick the stuff that you won't and warp and sell it. If you don't do that your purposely gimping yourself.
It absolutely doesn't. It would give you at taste of those things if there were no alternative, but there is an alternative.
>go to the supermarket
>forgot wallet at home
>resolve to starve to death
you're fucking braindead.
In a game where your fastest travel speed is a comfortable jog, you bet your fucking ass I use fast travel.
And it's not like fucking NV has any amazing scenery to admire and once enemies are dead, they're pretty much dead forever.
There's literally no reason to walk everywhere unless you're braindead or didn't know you can fast travel.
If I let games tell me how to have fun I would believe them that weight management is fun and try and convince other people I enjoy it like you. At this point the game has become that relative that you're forced to be around on a regular basis that you have to force a grin and pretend to like for you.
This so much.
>create an enormous amount of items to pick up
>"don't pick up too much! But we won't tell you if you missed any important items because lol 10/10 game design!"
Bethesdrones are the worst.
Being able to manage your inventory and only carry the important things is part of the game. Soon the next trend will be removing encumbrances in general because casuals want to take everything without thinking. Fuck you.
>game makes me do stuff to get xp
I don't get it, I just want to have fun not to make chores. The most fun part of a game is leveling up, so the games should just skip all the killing stuff/doing quests and just give xp non-stop all the time.
It's an incredibly boring, tedious part of the game - you know, those two traits a GAME should never be. Encumbrance is to game challenge as pencil sharpening is to solving a math problem.
>my favorite part of the game was the really engaging level where it told me I had to stop what I was doing to go back and put my stuff in my locker so that I could turn around and go back and continue where I left off
It forces you to specialize and makes your character more unique. This trend of making generic characters that can do everything is boring as fuck.
In Fallout 4 for instance I'm basically just looting all without even thinking about it because random shit barely weighs anything and I instantly just dump it back at my base. Now that is boring.
Yeah weight limits fucking suck, they're never a meaningful choice, they're just a few minutes of busywork between quests/missions/whatever, or at the very mst you'll have to make a quick cost analysis to figure out what loot is not worth taking with you
Except it doesn't. It literally never does. It does not specialize your character in the slightest because an infinite solution is just to go dump it in a box somewhere and come back - which defeats the purpose of the weight limit in the first place and just makes that entire process a pointless errand. Your fantasy of what encumbrance is doing for a game is not the reality of what encumbrance is doing for any game.
But that's wrong.
The challenge is to manage your inventory. It forces you to make choices with consequences. Yes, the consequence might be to walk again and grab more loot. But that's your greed.
You could've just made an unarmored char but that'd be harder.
Now you see the challenge.
But the main thing, and this goes for weapon repairs, too:
Immersion. When you play a role playing game, it's silly that your skinny gnome wizard can haul 20 sets of full plate armor to sell them. And it's silly that stabbing with a rapier against a shield 100 times doesn't dull it.
Delusion. See >>322935020
I'm not the anon that has an issue with repairs, I kind of like that actually, but encumbrance is the most blatant example of meaningless padding in every game that uses it short of a select few horror games.
>an infinite solution is just to go dump it in a box somewhere and come back - which defeats the purpose of the weight limit in the first place and just makes that entire process a pointless errand
No, that is the point. No one is forcing you to loot everything but your own greedy OCD-inflicted self.
Learn to read.
Having to walk multiple times isn't a feature,it's a consequence of a choice. The choice could be hwo you build/equipped your char or how greedy you are.
It's also balancing so you can't just carry thousands of weapons, armor and consumables
And still; Immersion
It's literally the only reason you're playing a video game rather than doing a math problem, you ignorant fuck, you're either too stupid to realize you're engaging in escapism or too insecure to admit it.
>It's literally the only reason you're playing a video game rather than doing a math problem, you ignorant fuck, you're either too stupid to realize you're engaging in escapism or too insecure to admit it.
>video games are escapism
>board games are escapism
>going out with friends is escapism
>having sex is escapism
it forces you to make decisions, properly evaluating what you are going to take with you on adventure and which loot you are going to bring back
this is only tedious if you are an autist who NEEDS to sell every rat carcass at 1gp each even though they weigh like 4 pounds
Oh really? There's another route to that part, though, where you'd drop the things you could live without, scarf down some food, chug some potions, and walk away 50 pounds below the limit.
If it enhances the gameplay, maybe. Most time it just bogs you down in what could be called a handbag-simulator.
In games like The Elder Scrolls it's boring. You're going to carry around a few Swords of Fire, Axes of Damageness or a backup Bow of Bullshittery, add your Heavy Armour to that and you're at 90% encumberance already.
Daggerfall had a decent solution: You could buy a cart and stack everything in there when you're looting a dungeon. Nowadays you don't have that option which is pointlessly tedious.
If it's in a survival game it would be interesting, maybe. Let's say you had to chose between An axe for woodcutting or a spear for hunting - you don't room for anything else because you lack clothes, containers, bags, whatever. Ususally it's annoying, and the choices you make based on encumberance don't figure much into the outcome of the game, just limit your capacity to loot.
>just started Lonesome Road
>valuable heavy shit everywhere
>marked man armor
>can't bear just dropping something worth 1000s of caps
>keep trekking back to the nearest commissary every five seconds
I'm entirely okay with encumbrance systems in cRPGs or open world like the Witcher games, but I despise it when they're implemented in JRPGs because I've grown up on Final Fantasy where inventory space is mostly unlimited and there are so many other abstractions and concessions to fantasy features that adding one that's more a chore than a challenge is not fun.
>double-tapping/holding a button to perform an action because a regular press of the button is used for a different action
if it was a real choice the infinite bottomless box wouldn't exist. Plugging your ears and pretending that you can't do it is doing the exact same thing as modding out the weight limit, except with the latter you're actually making the game more fun rather than trying to convince yourself you like it better than you do.
which I hadn't even thought about. Rather than limiting how much you can carry limit how much you can use at once. Then when you're ready to switch your gameplay style you don't have to go on a grand journey of tedium.
the only reason you find video games and movies fun is because it's presenting you a world in which the circumstances are different than the one you interact with throughout your day and you find that world appealing for a time. Strip that way, all of that, and the game is literally math. It's escapism whether you realize it or not.
>my favorite part of the game was that time it told me I had to waste a bunch of items to bring a number down below another number before I could progress.
>the only reason you find video games and movies fun is because it's presenting you a world in which the circumstances are different than the one you interact with throughout your day and you find that world appealing for a time. Strip that way, all of that, and the game is literally math. It's escapism whether you realize it or not.
That's some hard projecting you got there. I like video games because they are fun. A few are even intellectually enriching. Same as movies and literature: It's intellectually enriching and enjoyable. If you consume any of these things so it diverts from your working or social life, you need to rethink the choices you have made so far in your life.
"overencumbered" reeee, haha, am I right, gamers? Why don't they just let you pick up everything!
Well, you could just think for a second instead of sperging out.
You tried to criticise encumbrance in vidya and brought DeS as an example.
I said it's a bad one because i agree with carry weight limit having no place in des because it's more of an action game with a different focus.
Full fetched rpgs like tes iii or CDDA need carry weight limit for reasons stated itt.
No coincidence that a short tempered, stupid faggot like you also is a casual.
>tapping in general
I can get behind that.
Okami's was actually the only one I've ever found acceptable, but I see where you're coming from.
>using the word fun to try and distract yourself from what's actually happening.
I play games with friends, I watch and discuss movies with friends, I just never try and convince myself it's anything other than what it is. The fact that you are trying to convince yourself otherwise should be alarming to you.
Fallout 3/NV speach:
>Hi anon, I'm trying to flood this canal to kill all the ghouls inside, will you help me?
In doing so will you also kill non-ferals?
>It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make
[BARTER] If I help you will you give me your unique gun?
*you flood the canal and finish the quest*
[SCIENCE] Flooding it won't kill the ferals, but make them stronger because the water is radiated.
>You are right. I suppose we can kill them with weapons
*you kill the ferals and complete the quest*
Fallout 4 dialogue:
>Hi anon, I'm trying to flood the canal to kill the ferals
[SARCASTIC] you got a pest problem *The Big Bang Theory audience laughs*
>Nice joke ayy lmao 10/10-IGN
>Now flood the canal
[GOOD GUY ANSWER] Yes sure I'll be your slave
>Thank you so much
>Now flood the canal
[BAD GUY ANSWER WITH CHARISMA]
YES BUT GIVE ME MONEY FAGGOT
>OK I HATE YOU
>Now flood the canal
Why do you want to kill the ghouls?
>I don't like them
>Now flood the canal
>Progression so that you actually feel like you are doing something in the game and have an objective instead of pointless loitering
>Satisfaction after you worked hard for something
>Rewarded when you play a lot so you keep on playing more
Off the top of my head, I think the Armored Core franchise might quality
>choice between equipping your mech with heavier, more powerful parts and weapons, or lighter armament
>the result impacts your ability to maneuver, your firepower, and there might or might not also be overheating mechanics [I can't quite remember]
But of course, I don't think this is the case that's being discussed at the moment, the thread seems to be more about weight limits in open world games in general.
New game never ever.
>>using the word fun to try and distract yourself from what's actually happening.
>I play games with friends, I watch and discuss movies with friends, I just never try and convince myself it's anything other than what it is. The fact that you are trying to convince yourself otherwise should be alarming to you.
>lalala I'm right and you're wrong :^)
How about you bring some actual points instead of being the supreme smuglord? Yes, video games are fun. They are enjoyable way to pass the time alone or with friends. That doesn't mean I play them to escape from reality. You can do things for fun anon, it's okay.
People wouldn't feel the need to pick up everything if the vendors in game didnt have bottomless pockets of gold or got imperial shekel deliveries with every passing day.
Unless you're selling to some huge mercantile scrap company with bottomless demand, your average merchant would eventually get sick of buying rusty swords and sets of armor from you.
>if it was a real choice the infinite bottomless box wouldn't exist. Plugging your ears and pretending that you can't do it is doing the exact same thing as modding out the weight limit, except with the latter you're actually making the game more fun rather than trying to convince yourself you like it better than you do.
Still not convinced and at this point it's just going circles. Play what and how you like it.
Weight limit could work in an actual survival game. Say, something like Stalker. You have to choose how much ammo and food you take with you, which determines how long you can scavenge and how much shit you can haul back. But the balance needs to be a fine one- too little of a limit and it's pretty tedious, too high of a limit and it's meaningless
Why are you trying so hard to convince me your reality is great on an anonymous imageboard? Pretty much everybody engages in escapism, it's not an indicator of a miserable life. It's a fun way to spend time - either alone or with other people. But end of the day, it's escapism, you just seem to be very insecure about that word.
>Le complex decision
No, there's no fucking decision unless you already played the game and you know exactly which bullshit miscellaneous items get crafted into that one weapon you use with your stats.
Plus you generally need money for something so you need to gather money.
The sole purpose of the system is to artifically lengthen the game by making you go back and forth places. Games that give you infinite inventory space are ininitely more enjoyable if items are bullshit.
A game that did inventory management well was resident evil, because all items were meaningful, you had to pick between room for key items, weapons, ammo, and healing items. And that was it, no other bullshit crap to carry around.
>Quick time events
when did we begin to feel the need to mash buttons instead of relaxing while the cutscene goes on? What the fuck is wrong with people? Watching cutscenes was one of the most awesome things in old school videogames
Jesus christ let's go reply by reply, since you are apparently retarded.
Here's the first post in the chain >>322934305
Even a moron like you has to agree that the point of that post is basically: if you don't like these things (carryweight limit, weapon degradation and absence of fast travel) then video games aren't for you. Note: No mention of genres, just videos games in general.
And here is my reply >>322934818
Proving that it's not that simple, by giving an a example of a game where carryweight limit was an absolutely awful mechanic that no one should approve of.
And then you come in out of left field >>322935158 talking about genres and calling me a dipshit for no apparent reason. and somehow I'm the angry sperg.
And finally >>322935436 I explained that there was no mention of genres in the first post and that we are talking, in this replay chain, about video games in general.
Clear enough for you autistic asshole?
Because it's realistic to be able to carry 500 guns no problem, but 501 makes you molasses. Souls does it pretty well where only what you have equipped encumbers you
I get that you like to play all your games with a GameFAQ window opened so you can minmax your run but most people aren't cockless faggots like yourself and would rather just enjoy the fucking game.
I think Repair was one of my favorite skills in New Vegas. Partially because of how often it came up in skill checks, and partially because I loved scrounging for items to quickly fix up my weapons to constantly maxed condition.
Also, I felt like the carry weight was never restrictive. I had something like 20 different weapons, a light armor set, and a medium armor set. Not to mention all of my ammo for all of my weapons had weight because of Hardcore mode. I even liked in Honest Hearts where they limit you to 75 units going into the DLC. It made me really put some thought into what weapons and armor and healing items would be my real backbone.
>Escapism is mental diversion by means of entertainment or recreation, as an "escape" or dissociation from the perceived unpleasant, boring, arduous, scary, or banal aspects of daily life.
I wish more games had a more significant gradient between heavy and light, like if you become so gargantuanly heavyset that you can't jog, you start gaining additional defense and cannot be stunned because all the shit you're carrying is pinning you to the ground and cannot be toppled by someone trying to fucking kill you
I hate QTEs during cutscenes [screw you forever Resident Evil 4], but I do enjoy QTEs that are integrated in a fairly harmless way into the gameplay. Like, for example, an RPG where you get bonus damage for timing your button press with the hit animation, is the best application of a QTE I can think of in a videogame. It doesn't kill you instantly for failing it in an arbitrary way, but it rewards you for having the capacity to do it.
Exactly. And your'e trying to convince me that every media I enjoy is just part of my _alleged_ unpleasant aspects of life, which simply isn't true. In fact most media I enjoy I enjoy to deal with those unpleasant aspects. And some other media, like video games, are pleasant aspects of my life, and not a diversion tactic.
>NO YOU ANON MY LIFE IS SO GREAT ESCAPISM IS NOT FOR ME
It's perfectly ok to engage with fiction for a while anon, no matter what the bullies told you.
escapism es·cap·ism (ĭ-skā'pĭz'əm)
The tendency to escape from daily reality or routine by indulging in daydreaming, fantasy, or entertainment.
It's really not something you need to be insecure about buddy, it doesn't imply misery like you think it does. Insecurity does, though.
The new Battlefront had a qte I quite liked- guns didn't have ammo but would overheat, and when you timed your push right you could greatly reduce the cooldown. The time frame got smaller with every consecutive successful cooldown reduction
Its the only way to add an enemy that is humanoid, endless in number, only uses its hands, and runs straight at you.
Its a cheap way to setup a game where you just kill a ton of things and dont feel anything.
Even the limits shown in the game aren't realistic encumbrance. The last game I played with a realistic encumbrance was Earthbound, and that game was able to balance it out by having fewer and more important items.
If you remember you're the one who started all this with the idea that escapism has to signify a miserable life, but you're convinced that escapism is a bad word because /v/ probably told you it is. It's not, it's not even a bad thing to do in moderation. Again, you seem very insecure about the entire idea, and that's what's alluding to your unpleasant life.
Weight Limits do absolutely nothing but make take longer to do shit.
>Oh I'm over encumbered as fuck
>better drop all this useless shit
>oh hey a side quest
>"Get a bunch of [All that useless shit you dropped]"
It doesn't add difficulty because everything that could attack you is probably already dead, and are the reason you're over encumbered in the first place.
It's a shit system and has no place in vidya that allows you to fight and kill giant radioactive scorpions with a pool cue.
>I haven't played Dragon's Dogma
IT's the best encumberance system ever. Your total carried weight affects everything from runspeed to stamina consumption. Being lightly loaded can mean your trip across the map is half as long or even help you in combat when avoiding attacks.
>let's make the true ending obtainable only after unlocking all weapons and make every single one of them beyond retarded to unlock and completely impossible unless you look it up!
Secret endings in general are kind of whack. I'm all for bonus challenges/replay bonuses, but if they're intended as a bonus to the main game then they really shouldn't lock you out of story components.
>/v/ told you to
Can you please put forward an argument without having to constantly insult me (since yoru arguments are shit)?
As for the point, escapism simply is the wrong word here. It implies that I do things to divert my mind from other things, which is not true, regardless of how adamantly you insist on it. It may be true that SOME people enjoy media for this reason, but this doesn't mean everyone does it. And unless you're going to make the point that every form of enjoyment - from video games to books to movies to sex to traveling - necessarily is only enjoyable because it diverts your mind from the negative aspects of your life, I don't really see you making any good point here.
Grid based inventory systems are superior to weight based ones.
>upgrading items has an increasing failure chance that destroys the item and the materials used to upgrade
>New Game PLUS!
>Play it again, keep your items, but this time enemies are harder!
Artificial replay value. Why not just make a game that's interesting to play through different ways multiple times, using different builds?
>Hey can you go deliver this letter for me?
>QUEST STARTED, REWARD: 1500 GOLD, 1000 EXPERIENCE POINTS
Side quests were always really interesting in RPGs before they were watered down like this. Remember delivering letters to the injured soldier in Mobliz, in FF6? How about finding the alien on the world map in FF8? Make your side quests slightly more subtle so that they reward attentive players.
>Equipped items, if less than 10 pounds, are weightless
>Encumberment works as a scale starting at 100% speed at some kind of high value, i.e. 150 Skyrim units and works its way down to 30% speed at 500 units, where it stops decreasing
>Armor does not directly dictate movement speed, but does impact it due to its weight
>Armors that give ridiculous amounts of damage resistance are available right at the start, if you're willing to eat a dick and move at 30% movespeed or have nothing else in your inventory
Is this bearable?
All right anon, I'm sure your life is the biggest and best that's ever been, escapism is so beneath you that you are just the happiest most successful man alive and will never need such dirty, dirty words for peasants like all those mean people on /v/. You're the biggest boy of all biggest boys champ - you got us, winner.
I really don't see the point, honestly. It's not like it realistically represents carrying things better than a flat weight limit does. Has anyone ever ran through one of these and thought "man, I really want to carry this thing with me, but the shape is too awkward to efficiently fit my grid!"?
They almost mathematically equivalent.
The problem is that developers actually pay attention to sizes and weights in grid systems, as in the case of diablo it was directly related to database storage costs for online, while in regular weight systems the theoretical grid is so big they just don't give a shit and it's not clear why the system exists at all.
Arguably more realistic, but I don't think there's really any video game with a highly realistic inventory system since your character is never actually depicted holding the things they are carrying.
>How about adding new ways to play a game, except this particular way I don't like?
I was absolutely livid when I found out Dishonored did not have a New Game+ mode.
gimping playstyles using stupid shit like resources (mana)
>have cool as fuck spellcombos that would annihilate groups of enemies and truly make you feel powerful
>they all cost too much to use
>have to settle for spamming the shitty lvl 1 fireball spell 100000 times instead
every fucking time
>All right anon, I'm sure your life is the biggest and best that's ever been, escapism is so beneath you that you are just the happiest most successful man alive and will never need such dirty, dirty words for peasants like all those mean people on /v/. You're the biggest boy of all biggest boys champ - you got us, winner.
That's not even the idea you retard. Jesus fuck how about you actually read my posts. I'm not saying that I don't have unpleasant things in my life. I'm saying that I don't deal with these things by diverting my mind from them with media consumption, and converesely my media consumption isn't based around diverting myself from these bad things. In fact a lot of my media consumption has the aim to tackle these problems. And when I indeed have _fun_ (games, sex, traveling, social life) it's just for the sake of without ulterior motive.
I guess the thrust is that if you are indeed knowingly engaging in escapism you should work on your problems instead, but that doesn't mean the things your using to engage in escapism are necessarily escapistic per se.
>No mention of genres, just videos games in general.
Yeah, because racing games often have those features.
If someone plays and rpg and whines about carry weight video games aren't for him.
If some one plays a jump n run and whines about pits/spikes, video games aren't for him.
If someone plays an fps and whines about having limited ammo, video games aren't for him.
It's a matter of attitude and expectations. Go watch a movie or something
overly gimmicky shit that's just plain inferior
>Fireball: Costs 10 mana to use, kills a regular enemy in 3 hits
>Blind: Costs 20 mana to use + blinding powder item, gives enemy a 15% chance to miss when attacking
This is more of a problem with the fact that early game spells always look and feel like garbage and don't give you any sense of power. I'm looking at you Bethesda, your spells are always garbage up until you reach endgame and they
continue being garbage.
limited ammo changes the way you approach and engage in fights
pits/spikes are the challenge to the platforming of a platformer
inventory encumbrance makes you take an extra trip and then in no other way affects gameplay because no matter what build you are you can just run back to the box and come back - making the whole concept pointless.
Encumberence is perfectly acceptable when applied with the thought of gameplay balancing instead of the lazy shit bethesda does.
If the game is balanced for it, being slower while wearing heavier armor, and inversely wearing lighter gear is fun.
Ignoring the fact that not all rpgs have carryweight, not all fps's have limited ammo, and not all platform games are about jumping over spikes.
Those people can just avoid those respective genres and enjoy other videogames, they can absolutely love tetris and hate ammo, hate spikes, hate carryweight.
Literally all your posts are retarded.
>My character can carry multiple weapons, clothing, healing tools, huge stack of ammo, mountains of junk and a whole catalogue of miscellaneous items without any kind of backpack.
Yeah fast travelling to dump anything I don't want sure adds realism and strategy to the game. It'd be so casual without it.
No no I'm sure your life is as perfect as you say it is sport, why would I ever doubt you? Listen here bucko, I bet everybody on this board is just wishing they were half the success you are. I mean, escapism, PFFT, you?! no! Look, how about we go buy you the biggest cake the baker makes with as many candles as you want? Would you like that, champ?
>wasting ammo in an fps makes you get new smmo or die, replaying that part
>dying in a platformer makes you reolay thst part
>having shit inventory management and/or a char that isn't build for carrying makes you rewalk that part
Don't like cake?! All right, you twisted my arm but hey, it's not like you don't deserve it - I'm gonna call up all of your multitude of adoring friends for a day party at - you guessed it! CHUCK E CHEESE! I know how much you love watching them play games and telling them how unhealthy it is to avoid their problems like that, aww you're such a scamp. I'm so proud of you.
Equip load makes sense gameplay-wise, encumberance is just here to add tediousness. "Oh boy, I wish I could continue exploring this dungeon but I have to make a quick trip back to my stash first".
I mean, whoever has played Demon's and Dark Souls can't tell me they missed the inventory load from the first game.
Regenerating health and mana makes the game easier and more forgiving. Same for better equipment. Playing inventory tetris is just tedious, it doesn't make the game any harder and it breaks the pace.
I have a revolutionary new idea for an inventory system, taking kickstarter donations now
>It's not about the genre
I agree, that's why I'm not the one who brought up genres.
>it's about the mindset
And you have a shitty one.
>if you don't like specific mechanics in certain games then don't play videogames at all
Haha! That's my boy! After that how about we go play some catch! Get your arm all warmed up for pitching in the big game! Not that anybody could ever warm you up without tiring themselves out! You know everybody relies on you on that team! They didn't make you captain for no reason, they look up to you! You're out there succeeding while they're having "fuun" on their silly game consoles - one day you're really gonna show all these other boys and girls what a hard day's work really means.
I thought Witcher 3 did a pretty good job at this. There's a weight limit but you can increase it with saddlebags and a skill. And eventually you just stop looting low level shit because it does nothing for you anyways. The fast travel was a nice balance, too, having to use a signpost.
I can't think of a game where dropping something less valuable/useful and then picking up something more valuable/useful and then NOT coming back for the junk ruined the game.
No game FORCES you to walk again for loot. It's just one of many compromises of an RPG like distributing stat points.
Sure you COULD tediously grind to make a master character but most people don't
So I don't see what's so hard to NOT sell every piece of crap for mad money.
Inventory management is ok in Witcher 3 but weapon degradation is fucking tedious though. I lose track of how many times I had to backtrack to a fucking blacksmith in the middle of a quest because my silver sword was fucked.
Hmm been a while since I played but last I remember I picked up a laser minigun, used it to kill 2 mutants then it broke, asked me to go find some rare shit or find another equally hard to find minigun to repair it by 5%
Sometimes I find it okay and other times I do not. Games like RE4 did it right. Games where you just can pick up everything and anything and then suddenly say you carry to much is horse shit.
RE4 is fine since you can see how much space you have and place items in certain ways to get more space.
If there's hundreds in the game and scattered everywhere and not "hidden" at all, yes. If there's 5 audio logs in the game, they all have weight, and hidden very well because they damn near apoil the game, they're fine.
Dark Souls did it right. Repairing weapons is cheap, easy, and the whole process of repairing all your gear takes 5 seconds, until they're broken.
That'd be pretty cool
>better put these potions on top I might need them later
>oh shit lava and my ring of lava immunity is somewhere in my bag hang on let me move all this shit and find it
New inventory systtem:
You can only carry as many weapons as you have holsters/sheaths
There are three classes of items small/middle/big based on the apparent size and weight with numbers 1/2/3 or 1/5/7 or something
You can buy bags/sacks that hold a specific number of weightpoints.
You can only equip a certain number of bags or weightpoints
Going over your weight/sizelimit slows you down exponentially and disables certain movement (running, jumping climbing).
Oh don't you worry about those anonymous meanies, they're just bitter that they're not the success you are! If only everybody could be born with your combination of good genes, impeccable wit, and go get 'em attitude! You are everything everybody wishes they could be, Scamp, we all love you!
Honestly, encumburance is only really shitty in Bethesda games.
Thanks to leveled loot, you can find something similar enough in the next dungeon, but what if you want to keep your first sword on you or some shit? Levelled loot is a failed mechanic.
>you can craft weapons and armor in the game
>but the weapons and armor you find / loot are objectively better, so there's no point.
Oh what have I told you about those dirty dirty words son! That's a word for losers! And in THIS family we do NOT tolerate losers! Now you know I have to make you take a lap for that one, partner, but don't think it's because I'm mad at you - it's because I, along with everybody else you meet, love you!
>Infinitely respawning enemies
Seriously fuck off your not hard to kill you are like fucking roaches so just fuck off after I kill you 100 times.
Also fuck off I don't want to have stop having fun in the game to go give captain faggot some money to restore my numbers to my sword because god forbid the fucking numbers hit single digits.
> lore tomes
> lore recordings
> lock picking minigames
> hacking minigames
> collecting herbs
> MMO style crafting systems in single player games
> "Hold button to enable faggotsense and look for clues!"
> "You can either be sneaky or attack!"
> "Build and decorate your own house!"
I get like 10 hours into pretty much every single new game I play, and then I just can't fucking handle it anymore.
I mean, encumbrance in RPGs is trash, but I feel like more often than not weapon degradation also implies room to improve your weapon, which I usually enjoy. Unless you have to take it to a specific guy to have it fixed and that's literally the extent of the mechanic, If I can improve my weapon I'm fine with having it degrade.
>game has timed missions
>specifically made so that you'll have only 1 second left by the end of it
>basically meaning if you slow down even once or fuck up you have to restart the entire mission
How about this:
The inventory is divided into The Belt and The Bag.
The Belt has several slots into which you can put other containers: sheaths, holsters, potion pouches, lock-picking sets, scrolls, etc.
The Belt is bound to your number keys, so pressing a hot-key instantly equips the item on the belt slot.
The Bag is a grid system, but all items also have weight and you can only carry a certain amount of weight. So if you put two three dumbbells into your sack, it might be half-empty, but your feebly wizard will have trouble moving around. In order to interact with your bag, your hands have to be empty. Which means you have to sheathe your weapons before opening the bag, making you vulnerable to enemies. That discourages you from opening an inventory mid-combat. Put important items on your belt or die.
Strong warrior types would be able to carry around heavy stuff and would have multiple sheaths, so they'd gain profit from taking the slain foes' equipment.
Thieves would be encouraged not to kill anyone, but pickpocket and steal stuff from chests. Chests would contain stuff like jewellery and coins. So to make up for their lack of carrying space, they'd hunt for small, but valuable items that warriors have no access too.
Wizards are weaker still, and their dungeon-crawling would revolve around hunting for spells, runes, artefacts and magical reagents. Even lighter than jewellery, they would have low market value, but the items that are crafted from them, such as magical scrolls, wands and potions would sell high.
> can sprint everywhere
> pick up a tomato
> walking through jam
i'd appreciate it if weight/max weight affected speed proportionately.
I dont understand why the de facto mechanic is thresholding.
>Butt of rifle breaks
>Gun will not fire or the accuracy is fucked so you have to shove it up someone's ass to hit them
Weapon degradation has always been tedious and an annoyance to the player I don't know why games feel they need to put it in for mah immorshun.
>get the nanomachine laser sword in Deus Ex
>the laser part of the weapon takes inventory grid space
I think it's exactly the opposite.
>Show up to vendor with $13,000 of vendor trash
>He only has $800
>sell him $798 of trash
>Run to next town
>Vendors have a combined total of $2800
>sell them $2780 of trash
>Run to next town
>Repeat while getting fucking bored of the game for 2 hours
>finally have enough to buy shitty sword that will be obsolete in 45 minutes
>Show up to shop
>dump all trash on the fucker, walk away with new money
>Spend it on piece of shit sword that will be obsolete in 45 minutes
>Go back and start killing shit immediately
Grinding and walking more for more loot are two extremely shitty, outdated mechanics in RPGs. Back when people didn't know how to design a game more around fighting mechanics and combat it might have been cool to grind out levels, but it's still tedious work that doesn't need to be in any game anymore.
yeah this would be fine. would actually incentivize trimming your inventory to the pure essentials in a positive way instead of just "you won't run into this extremely disruptive barrier as often"
Permadeath, permanent deleveling, and very limited inventory spaces.
It adds absolutely nothing to gameplay other than frustration and neuters any sense of progression. It's why roguelikes are such absolute garbage.
I'd say it depends. Standard Bethesda games give you a goddamned arsenal of gear, yet still have limits. If I'm carrying 11 weapons, may as well make it 12. There's no real drawback to the weight limit in terms of difficulty, it's just some guns are fun to use. However, if the game has very harsh limits, like with New Vegas's Sawyer mod, then giving yourself that extra carrying strength defeats the purpose of having such a tight limit: to make you assess what is necessary to take with you vs what you might find and want to take back.
I played New Vegas like 100 hours before realizing you could craft weapon repair kits with repair skill 50. Weapon durability instantly became a non-issue since the materials are fucking everywhere.
>playing any old school JRPG that uses the Wizardry Interface
>can only hold 8 items per character
Just find a place to put all of your junk, you hoarder.
Every game mechanic which is meant to make the game more "exciting" like weight limit to not carry a weapon for all situations at all time.
The PROBLEM is how they approach it. Encumbrance is overcome with packmule companions and items that lets you carry more which is always featured, so it's pretty much pointless and just makes you do more clicks to get something.
Condition/Repair where you are SHOWERED with things that can do repairs after a while and is required to do enough damage against bullet sponge enemies. There's no stress or excitement involved, just a few extra clicks between every few fights.
Money in games with infinite money to gain. Enemies respawning with gear you can sell, merchants buying everything you got every time. Quests you can farm for money rewards etc. Either it has some really stupid prices for any little thing or you'll buy 3 houses and never have anything else to spend your 500 million gold on. This is where linear games with no backtracking or money farming shine. Cash becomes a second form of experience, once spent on one thing you can't have that other thing. At least not right away and you won't always have enough to get every little thing like different skill trees.
If the game forces me to repeat an action until it becomes a chore then no, I don't want to play that game.
Although if you know a big open world game where walking everywhere is always full of new adventures, I'd really to know which one, to play and enjoy it too.
The only ones that come to my mind are GTA games and their clones because the cars go fast enough to not become boring, but all the rest you move too slow, and there is no variety enough to make walking any zone funny beyond the first time you explore it.
> "go in this 10ft x 10ft room while holding a button that makes everything dim and fisheye-lensed so you can spin around in circles looking for the tiny glowing thing floating in 3d texture soup; hope you brought some dramamine!"
Encumbrance is fucking pointless because they don't put any effort to you making an actual choice.
All consumables weigh almost nothing and unless there's weapon degrading, you only need three weapons at most and a set of armor.
Just look at demon souls, grass weighs fucking 0.1 so carrying the max amount isn't going to have you make "deep choices in what to items you need to take" its just shit like 3-1 where there's two sets of armor and a shit ton of weapons that disappear if you pick them up and leave them.
Or its just shit like Fallout 4 where ammo and stimpacks are weightless and drugs weigh nothing, and you just fast travel back and forth anyways just to move all that shit.
They should honestly just have something where you can magically send items back to your box, so the shit you obviously are only gonna sell for gold aren't weighing you down. and thus they'd have to put a bigger emphasis on the weight of the things you'd want to bring with you.
That shit pissed me off in Persona 4.
If I beat the fucking game I deserve to keep all the fucking levels I got and have fun next playthrough not repeat the same grinding over and over again.
> I should be able to carry the kitchen sink on my back
> while playing a roleplaying game
Want to carry more stuff? Increase strength. Want to not get encumbered? Be smart, grab what you really need.
I mean, how do you even get encumbered anon? Sell stuff you don't need, carry money. You don't need 10+ weapons in your backpack.
I was thing about
the pack mule in runescapefor that last bit, where instead of chucking away your healing items to pick up the stuff thats worth more, you just last until you run out of things
Stealth games with quicksaves
>theres a very difficult and risky path
>there are multiple alternate paths
>just quick save and take the risky path until perfect stealth
Seriously why do stealth games even have alarms and combat, if you're supposed to reload when you're caught.
>stealth sections in a game not designed around stealth
>class has no cooldowns
>is OP as fuck because they can use all their abilities all the time
Fucking BC warlocks.
>class has lots of cooldowns
>is OP as fuck because they can destroy anyone if they want by using all cooldowns
This time with less nice:
The fact that you keep jumping to this fucking idiotic retort is evidence only that games are so stagnant that idiots can't even envision anything else.
There is one game series that has a durability system I really enjoyed (and they fucking removed it with the latest entry). Way of the Samurai 1, 2 and 3 made the management of your durability a combat condition that you took into account during a fight with it's Heat design.
You put too much tension on your blade (by means of recklessly clashing against blocking enemies or blocking yourself, using attacks that result in higher heat buildup) and it'll suffer. As long as you do not allow the sword to reach maximum tension on the heat gague (red bar filling up those segmented blocks above the green health bar), it will stay in top condition.
When it gets too much, the sword will lose one of the blocks, reducing only the capacity for heat it can take before breaking further, making it more dangerous to continue the way you're fighting. The sword's performance does not suffer at all until all Heat blocks are lost and the sword snaps off. The sword can be easily repaired and more blocks added to the sword's durability. With a bit of skill applied, you'll never have to worry about your sword being damaged.
Such a system could fit into other games easily - freeroam FPS - firing an automatic rifle in excess will heat up the barrel, making it warp and potentially break. As long as you don't go spewing bullets nonstop to a breaking point, any weapon should reliably go through thousands of rounds with no noticeable loss of performance.
Encumberance has actually been dumbed down in later Beth games.
In MW you couldn't even move when encumbered. In OB you could mvoe slowly, but if you picked up more, you'd be rooted completely.
In Skyrim you can walk slowly regardless of having a 1000/250 carry weight.
>still can't drop it or remove it from inventory
>always carrying enough equipment to bankrupt every shop in the game and buy whatever you want
Let me guess, you intentionally limit how you sell things and what you pick up, in which case why even bother turning off a weight limit?
Any rpg should follow dark souls formula of letting you access all the shit in you inventory and only adding encumbrance to items equipped. It just makes so much sense. Bethesdas model sucks shit.
The problem with encumbrance is that half the time it means fuck all until you accidentally pick up a cup and suddenly you can't go anywhere because you've now got 301lb of stuff on you instead of a much more reasonable 300lb.
Inventory tetris has always been much better at forcing you to think about what you need vs what you want.
>its a "specific stat check boss" in an rpg
>its a "gear check boss" in an rpg
>its a "specific item check boss" in an rpg
>its a "special weakness you have no clue about boss" in an rpg
>its a "invulnerable period that lasts way too long boss" in an rpg
>its a video game based around collecting many MANY items and you have almost no storage space for it at all whatsoever or the storage space you are given is cumbersome to deal with
>its a game with 700 trillion different types of fucking ammo for guns holy fuck just let me shoot stuff without deciding what kinda special snowflake rounds i need to use
>its a "difficulty noticabely spikes completely out of nowhere" mission in the GTA series
Also I wanna make a special submission just for one part of Borderlands.
There is a part before you bust out of the beginner area near firestone where you gotta fight Mad Mel in a giant Runner Arena battle.
There is no fucking way you can do that mission without either:
1. dying loads of times and losing money
2. cheesing the mission by grenade jumping back out of that fucking arena and using that ramp as cover
I honestly don't see how that mission is possible with a vehicle, and I sure as shit don't see how you can stop them from just running you over on foot, ontop of the hordes of axe throwing faggots that can for some reason throw an axe 80 yards and hit you ALWAYS.
Seriously, I don't see how to complete that mission without basically cheating or dying like 10 times. I don't see it at all.
>you can't finish a mission/quest before reaching a certain point
stop doing this any time
The main problem is they never use encumbrance as a meaningful device. Its a literal regression from Daggerfall where money had weight so you had to go to banks to deposit money and get checks, which were either weightless or close enough, and you had boats and carriages to store items on. We went from that to the shit we have now and it all started, like every other crappy thing in TES, with the failure that is Morrowind.
Mad Mel isn't actually that hard if you just stay in the vehicle. I just drive around in circles with the auto aim hitting everything. If I get knocked down I use a rocket launcher to take out a vehicle.
It's boring, but it was never very hard.
oh yeah, I'm definitely looking to benefit from all that increased melee damage. So glad I get to make a weapon type I have no interest in better so that I can carry an extra arm full of battered clipboards.
There was an old Windows 3.1 rpg, forget the name, but it actually did encumbrance surprisingly well. Basically, every container had two stats: weight, and bulk. This meant you couldn't just fill a small bag with a hundred iron maces - they would be too heavy for the bag. Nor could you stuff a large shield in the small bag - won't fit. But a small bag was great for holding a dozen scrolls or potions or rings etc. Bags, chests, belts, and other objects that could hold stuff could also be placed in larger objects - so you could have a belt in a bag in a (small) chest in your backpack. The only other rule was you couldn't nest magical bags of holding. You, as a character, also had a maximum weight based off your strength. When you hit it you simply couldn't carry any more - BUT, every pound of crap you were carrying also affected your "action speed" (listed as a % of normal). Even though the game was turn based it still kept track of time in a very fine way. If you were light enough, you could outrun monsters because you got to move 4 times every time they moved 3. Or, if you were too heavy, the opposite could happen. Some monsters were faster than others, of course, but it was also possible with an extremely fast/light character to dance in, strike, and dance out before they a slow monster had a chance to respond.
Anyways, it was a great system that I've never seen replicated anywhere else.
>open world RPG
>you're allowed to explore freely
>but you can't actually enter any of the new areas unless you first have advanced enough in the main quest
What's the fucking point? You can f.ex. reach the main city through a secret cave before the main quest asks you to go there, but the gates are locked for whatever reason.
>not realistic at all
That's not a valid point when discussing a video game. A simulation, sure.
You can still apply this to ranged combat with guns if you really wanted. Heat warp on the barrel etc.
Bows, and crossbows? They already have a limited fire rate so I see your point here.
All game mechanics increase game time, it's subjective whether or not it's padding.
If you remove all game mechanics people consider padding the game will become a movie.
I have mixed feelings about weapon degradation/repair. I didn't mind it so much in Fallout 3/New Vegas, because the player had a way to repair his own weapons while out exploring.
I absolutely fucking hated it in STALKER, because there was no way to repair your weapons or armor, which gradually got shittier until you hopefully found someone with a slightly less shitty gun than you. It also means that a weapon's given stats are meaningless, since you'll never encounter weapons at full durability, and thus, full damage power.
Which brings me to my next point, systems where weapons that lose stats with every successful attack are fucking bullshit.
>Beat a difficult boss
>Cutscenes follow, as expected
>Instead of getting a chance to save, you're thrown into a boss fight
You should always avoid making a player wait.
At most it should be used as a punishment for the players failure. Even then you shouldn't do that because the player is spending more time failing than playing.
It's not a mechanic, it's a gate. Its nothing the player builds up, it's just the game allowing the player to do something. You could have an item that does a blasty thing, it's now in an off state. After you kill someone or X thing X amount of times you restore the skill to be useable. This is still time based in a way, but it makes the player feel like their a part of the skill.
Another thing. Because I hate waiting so much I'm never going to use the skill because I never feel like I need to. It's going to stay in my back pocket until I need it, which is never.
This is a problem with a lot of game with one time use consumables. Same shit here.
Nothing is fun about waiting, nothing is intuitive about waiting. I don't feel better because I waited to use an item that wins the game for me.
I don't disagree with that, but I was talking more about how you and the other anons keep defending encumbrance by saying "If you don;t like it then you don't like video games at all".
I feel like weapon repair is cool if it improves the weapon instead of making it useable. it's kind of the same thing, but if you start the weapon at useable state, and then repairing it and maintaining it makes it stronger and faster. When it gets beet up it goes down to the normal, but it's still usable.
Carryweight is a poorly-done instance of trying to limit a player's options. Maybe not fucking showering them with loot would work better. Fuck gamedevs.
How about a low limit on the bonuses of armor you buy, a medium limit of the bonuses on armor you find, and a high limit on armor that you craft?
The same thing could be applied to enchantments if a game has them.
>i hate options!
only reasonable arguments there are against shite minigames, DETECTIVE VISION, and shite crafting systems
adding to the thread: time limits as actual timers instead of some physical obstacle
Or, have it so that at certain points (75%, 50%, etc) the weapon takes a hit to stats or reliability or whatever, but all at once. That way, you still have to keep your gun working, but you don't have to repair it to 100% after every fucking shot so that your numbers don't get incrementally worse.
I hate how Bethesda turned things like lockpicking into a minigame. Just make it require an item, make the sounds and animation of it happening, and make it a dice roll of whether it unlocks or not based on skill. Worked fine in Deus Ex and Thief.