If Graphics went back to the Dreamcast-PS2 days, would you be fine with it as long it allowed gaming dev costs to lower and games start coming out at the rate they did back then?
I wouldn't be upset. Hell if everyone loves it when indies do 8-bit stuff then I don't think they'd have a problem with dreamcast or ps3 era graphics if the games are good.
A drop in developing costs could easily bring more devs back to the AA model
most ps2 games somehow look pretty bad even with component, all blurry and shit.
but i think thats because of the resolution so if we get Silent Hill 2/3 or MGS2/3 model and texture quality at a higher resolution i would be fine with it.
Honestly I'd be fine with games looking like HD ps2 games.
People jerk off the 6th gen, but for good reason. Devs took more risks back then compared to now and one game not doing well wouldn't send a company under for good.
If graphics could stay as they are now with dev costs dropping then that would be xool. But I can't see it happening
>If Graphics went back to the Dreamcast-PS2
I'd be fine if the quality went back to the DC/PS2/GC era with it
yea there were shit games back then too but there seemed to be a better ratio of shit-to-quality titles, do you think any dev now could pull off a Jet Set Radio/Virtual On/Custom Robo/Power Stone nowadays and have it not come out like shit? Also there'd be more couch multiplayer titles which is always fun
also new power stone when?
If it meant that more companies would need to figure out how to create visually-interesting art styles to stand out, then absolutely.
I think it could be a lot more versatile, but yeah, most uses of it suck, and a lot of the more stylized animations and images that use the low-poly look outside of games use a shitton of rendering that isn't feasible in real-time.
Some people are already on it bruh
>also new power stone when?
Dunno, but if Strider can get a new game then anything is possible.
Well not mechanically, but I imagine that if they did then most gaming sites and reviewers would bash the hell out of it due to the graphics level. It would turn people away from the game even if it is mechanically sound and
And no company wants to have that happen to a game.
You know, if gaming went back to low(er) poly games the necessary computing power would also drop, resulting in better physics and shaders.
I'd really like to see another game like Panzer Dragoon.
I think a lot of those bridges have been burned. What's important is finding new talent with new ideas and ambitions. That being said I feel Capcom is recovering from the past few years, though that could just be the impression Monhun 4 left on me.
yeah, i'd love it. dreamcast graphics in HD are really nice and enough for most game concepts. 60 fps is a must though
>I think a lot of those bridges have been burned
I think the only one still mad at them would be Inafune. Kamiya doesn't seem to be mad at them, at least not any more if he was in the first place, and probably the same with Suda and Shinji Mikami. IIRC Arika and DIMPS were made up of former Capcom employees that were there when they banked on arcade fighters, and they've worked with them before.
>What's important is finding new talent with new ideas and ambitions.
I recall them saying they were getting a new building and hiring new talent a year or two ago.
>That being said I feel Capcom is recovering from the past few years, though that could just be the impression Monhun 4 left on me.
They've made some mistakes still, but nothing on a large scale fuck up like Legends 3, DmC, and SFxT's DLC fiasco. They're basically in rehab right now. Personally I think they'd be good if they took some of their old IPs and pulled a strider with them. Make them download games that don't need a super high budget.
Silent Hill levels of model quality with very high resolution textures would be a good compromise. Hopefully, post effects and good performance could happen.
I do like my photo realism though.
Of course I'd be fine for it. Games look good again, with no post processing to smear the screen and get in the way, and now they perform really well with high res, aa and high framerate. THere is nothing wrong with this plan.
Yeah I know, but Legends 3 mang.
It's gotta happen!
>canceling Legends 3 a mistake
the only mistake capcom made there was announcing it and Megaman Universe in the first place when they weren't anywhere close to a presentable state.
I don't really remember people being hype for MMU. All I saw was people going "Oh, another megaman game. Only this one has American megaman, Ryu, and Arthur"
Inafune just up and walking from legends 3 still bothers me though because of why he did it
I thought it was pretty neat, letting you make your own megaman stages would've been cool. I was bummed out when it got canned but I said to myself "Well at least we still got Legends 3"
Oh stop that anon you dick. With upscaled resolutions most ps2 late gen ps2 games look good. If we were getting good graphics and good gameplay then that would be great but we aren't. We are getting good graphics and terrible gameplay. The only thing worse than most of what we get now would be shit graphics and gameplay.
I think the wiiu is shit because it's had limited to no support from 1st or 3rd party devs and everything they try to port plays like dog shit. Which, yeah, partially comes down to it being underpowered. Consoles should get more powerful, but the additional computational power should not just be used to pretty things up.
finding good pics of rouge is difficalt
>comes down to it being underpowered
no it isnt, it comes down to those ports being shit ports. There was no reason for the majority of those ports being as bad as they were for any reason other than laziness and lack of effort.
I think it actually comes down to Ea, ubisoft,bethesda and these prefering a platform without a strong first party player. The WiiU would need a bit more non nintendo titles but I still don't get how it is possible that it is selling less than the xbone. That said, it is closer to what pople is desiring in this thread than the other two are
It's funny, capcom are not nearly as good as they were but still this year i've been playing almost nothing but capcom titles, just because of mh4 ,ace attorney and ghost trick alone
>The WiiU would need a bit more non nintendo titles but I still don't get how it is possible that it is selling less than the xbone.
Marketing. People joke about it, but there really were a lot of people that assumed that the wii U was just a tablet attachment for the Wii. The name really does matter.
Being weaker than the PS4 and Xbone doesn't really help either and companies don't want to have to think about "how can we make sure the tablet screen gets some use?" Even if it is as simple as slapping a map and/or an inventory screen there, they don't want to have to think about it period.
If the stars align and our livestock grow wings, allowing me to make a 3D game that's actually good, I would without question use late PS1 graphics. I don't know if it's just nostalgia, but the crisp polygons and pixel-like texture meshes have a charm that other games don't replicate.
Sure would. Pretty graphics are pretty and all, but it doesn't mean much when they're the best part of the game. If graphical fidelity being reduced to what it was 16 years ago would help make games as fun as they were 16 years ago, then I'm all for it.
>Tfw even if it happened, we'd only be happy for a moment, but our hopes and nostalgia would be shattered with modern vidya practices.
I mean, imagine playing Deus Ex, but the sewer level in Hell's Kitchen is DLC.
>I don't know if it's just nostalgia, but the crisp polygons and pixel-like texture meshes have a charm that other games don't replicate.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Though it could be nostalgia for me too, so I don't know. Though I think 8-bit (real 8-bit, not the indie shit) have a certain charm too, and I didn't start playing games until 1994 with the Super Nintendo. I didn't play many NES games until the late 90s/early 2000s, so I don't think there's a lot of nostalgia there for me.
I don't think a lot of people understand that you don't have to be 6 years old to think SNES games - or PS1 graphics for that matter - look very good for their time.
>Mutliplayer party fighting game that is at it's best when 4 people are playing together in one room
>Put it onto a handheld that only one person can use at a time in the early days of internet capable handhelds
I'm confident that Capcom actively tries to sabotage their franchises so they can say they didn't sell well and never have to make another one again.
Yeah, I played more ps2 and back era games last year than I did new releases. Ps2 era graphics are fine for the most part. It's only when you start delving into ps1 era 3d graphics that things start to look real bad by comparison to today.
I would love for more games with less production value, and more gameplay, and fun overall.
to be somewhat fair, even back then Japan used the multiplayer psp features much more than America did. Like they had meet ups for that kind of thing. Plus the PSP didn't require a lot to develop for. That's what japanese devs loved it so much, it was that sweet spot between PS1 and PS2
Not saying that they didn't goof by only putting it on the PSP, but I can see why they thought it was a good idea.
>>Power Stone even got an anime
It was a silly fun show too. I liked it
What the fuck? in this day and age, your age doesn't mean anything. How do you know he doesn't take care of himself and you just sit around all fucking day after coming home from middle school?
He's also right in that gameplay of games has not gotten dramatically better than from when I was playing games on the ps2. Not a lot of evolution has happened, other than on the graphics front.
The Wii U is shit because it gets no third party support. The reason that is is because the console is weak and that controller is incredibly stupid. No one wants to port games to the weakest console, that has a different input scheme, and a fanbase that doesn't even buy third party games.
The Wii U has the best exclusives thus far, no doubt about it. But, that is all it has. I mean between this year and last year, it's getting what? Maybe 10 games that are worth talking about?
This thread is going about as expected, most people would be fine sacrificing graphics for gameplay. Wonder what it'd be like if asked on Reddit or Gamefaqs? I don't think I want to find out.
I only ever go to gamefaqs for guides, and when I'm googling questions the forums pop up a lot, but are they a bunch of graphics fags?
I would imagine that website, with guides and boards for a lot of older games, would be less shit.
Reddit, I don't know though..
>I only ever go to gamefaqs for guides, and when I'm googling questions the forums pop up a lot, but are they a bunch of graphics fags?
Well, you'll find good people and communities there as you will anywhere, but Gamefaqs is also home to countless kids and normalfags.
Probably. Whenever you think you've seen the worst of humanity, someone manages to outdo it. I can't believe the Master Race thing even took off like it did. At first I thought using the term was all in good fun, but too many people took it seriously.
>you just sit around all fucking day after coming home from middle school?
>He's also right in that gameplay of games has not gotten dramatically better than from when I was playing games on the ps2. Not a lot of evolution has happened, other than on the graphics front.
So why replace good graphics and gameplay with shittier graphics and slightly less worse gameplay?
People are advocating worse graphics and great gameplay.
>slightly worse gameplay
Haha, alright kid. Whatever you say. No way we'll ever convince you that pretty games aren't better.
from what I'm taking from some of the posts in this thread, the general idea is that if graphics drop then game dev costs will drop. That will allow companies to take more risks while reducing the chance of a flop ending the company.
So it would possibly increase the chance of PS3 happening.
Fine then. Let's see if you won't actually just nitpick and say "Next!".
System Shock 2. Compare that to Bioshock. More Psi-Powers than Plasmids, an actual inventory, OS upgrades, the RPG mechanics, etc all make it a more interesting game than its streamlines successor. Going further back, System Shock 1 has stuff even SS2 lacked, like controlling the power of energy weapons (so you never have to manage your energy efficiently), and less interesting hardware mods (like the eyes in the back of your head/360 degree vision thing).
>the general idea is that if graphics drop then game dev costs will drop.
That's silly. I'm certain you wouldn't notice one. Unless it became a big deal, at which you might see a 5 dollar drop or so.
Marketing makes up a huge amount of dem budgets.
>you just sit around all fucking day after coming home from middle school?
You don't know anything about the anon you were talking about and neither do I. I'm showing you how dumb it was for you to say that you'll outlive him just because you're a millenial.
Look, all I'm saying is that graphics do not make a game and that I would happily lose graphical fidelity for fun, and or ambitious experiences.
I would gladly take a game that look like high resolution ps2 games than a highly realistic game, graphically, with very little gameplay improvements from games of it's kind that came before.
Careful with that meme, OP, it's an antique.
Let's look at a recent case.
It was a test you fucking neanderthal. I've written long posts before only to have every single example nitpicked into oblivion. If you'd like to actually continue this discourse like a grown up, we can. Otherwise, go back to Fallout 4 or whatever it is you kids play these days.
Yoshi's Island is far superior to any of the games that have come after. Yoshi feels better, the mechanics allow far greater range of movement, the music is better, and from an art design standpoint, its arguable if the games after are better.
Silent Hill 1-3 are far better than anything that came after, and a superior horror game than most games that come out now adays, regardless of the graphics.
The original Deus Ex is miles better than the games that came after it.
Balder's Gate 2 and Planescape: Torment are regarded as the absolute best Crpgs, and some of the best rpgs ever made. Regardless of their graphics, many people still view this as true.
SF 3 is better than Sf 4.
Soul Calibur 2 is regarded by many as the best in the series.
Tekken 3 is still magnificent and more fun than many other games that came afterwards, as well as TTT2 being godlike.
Marvel Vs Capcom 2 trumps Marvel Vs Capcom 3.
The Ps1 Final Fantasies are all better than the ones that came out on the ps2. The ps2 FF games are all better than the ones that came out on the consoles after.
Really depends on just what you mean by graphics
If only the models and textures, sure I guess
But if that also means the playable areas will be (significantly) smaller again, that would suck imo.
Also animations. There's so many old-ish games that I can hardly play because the animations are stiff and make the game feel unresponsive
>The Ps1 Final Fantasies are all better than the ones that came out on the ps2. The ps2 FF games are all better than the ones that came out on the consoles after.
That's just really sad. Well, at least we still have Dragon Quest.
Excuse me you fuck I'm 18 so I'm certainly not a 'kid'. If anything, YOU'RE the kid for personally insulting me like that so fuck you.
You cherry picked your example to suit your beliefs and self validation. Games these days are objectively better than games pre 2000. You're stuck in the past like grandpa trying to convince you that 1950s cars were better than today's, which is OBJECTIVELY false.
Go get a job.
The castlevania games before they went 3d, and the ones put out nowadays, are not even on the same level of gameplay.
Mount and Blade does sword play better than anything else that has come out, yet.
Killer 7 is better than the suda games that came out after the ps2 era.
Everything after the dreamcast in tersm of Sonic games is lesser to the new games, although they look worse.
Ocarina of Time and Majoras Mask are better than Twilight Princess, and ALttP is argued by many to be the best one.
Chrono Trigger is better than Chrono Cross.
The best tales of games all came before the ps3 era.
Resi 4 is better than any other action horror game that has come out since. The older Resi games are still better than some of the walking simulator horror games that appear.
I mean there are literally hundreds of examples. Very few game franchises and game genres have improved over the years in anything but graphics.
I just want companies to be able to make video games without having to pay 100 million because of ballooning costs to make a game.
I'd be 100% fine if graphics went back to the DC/Ps2 era with a better resolution and 60FPS
>I'm not a kid
Nigga, fuck all the way off. You're the only one acting immature about this.
>Games these days are objectively better than games pre 2000
I've posted two lists
feel free to make your own and prove your point then.
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting, kid
ps2 was always trash. only reason its library was so big was because Sony threatened to blackball Devs that supported other platforms like Dreamcast.
that and the fact that retards (average gamers) believed all the lies Sony spoon fed them about how great the PS2 hardware was.
A whole bunch of dummies actually thought they would get a FF7 remake on the PS2 because of a tech demo. most gullible fanbase ever
Yes. In fact, that was the perfect gen in terms of development costs. We need to go back to that mindset so we can possibly get more games out without taking too much of a risk. Know why we don't have certain games from certain series? Too risky with these inflated budgets. We could have another F-Zero, Jet Set Radio, or a few games from Treasure.
Being a PCfag, I thought it was a joke at first but unfortunatley its not. I hate how the PC community has become overly pretentious when all most people play is garbage like CS:GO, DOTA, Leauge and tf2. They dont even bother to explore past that, then have the nerve to trash talk consolefags.
>Yoshi's Island is far superior to any of the games that have come after. Yoshi feels better, the mechanics allow far greater range of movement, the music is better, and from an art design standpoint, its arguable if the games after are better.
Never played that shit so I can't comment.
>Silent Hill 1-3 are far better than anything that came after
I agree there hasn't been a better silent hill but Amnesia is pretty decent. It rivals all silent hills in terms of atmosphere in gameplay
>The original Deus Ex is miles better than the games that came after it.
I disagree. Human Revolution is superior in gameplay
>Balder's Gate 2 and Planescape: Torment are regarded as the absolute best Crpgs, and some of the best rpgs ever made. Regardless of their graphics, many people still view this as true.
>SF 3 is better than Sf 4.
>Soul Calibur 2 is regarded by many as the best in the series.
That title belongs to 5
>Tekken 3 is still magnificent and more fun than many other games that came afterwards, as well as TTT2 being godlike.
>Marvel Vs Capcom 2 trumps Marvel Vs Capcom 3.
Is this bait?
>The Ps1 Final Fantasies are all better than the ones that came out on the ps2. The ps2 FF games are all better than the ones that came out on the consoles after.
X is certainly better than VIII and VI
>The castlevania games before they went 3d, and the ones put out nowadays, are not even on the same level of gameplay.
Those games were shit to begin with. They weren't fun to me.
>Mount and Blade does sword play better than anything else that has come out, yet.
I hope you realize you're proving my point be cause a lot of games on these lists are older than 2000?
Yes, of course. Games are getting too expensive to make and take too much time to make. Doesn't it seem very telling that the 3DS and Vita has such a huge ass library and yet after all this time the Wii U, Xbone, and PS4 don't? PS2 games in HD are gr8.
>Killer 7 is better than the suda games that came out after the ps2 era.
>Everything after the dreamcast in tersm of Sonic games is lesser to the new games, although they look worse.
Sonic is fucking bland as hell.
>Ocarina of Time and Majoras Mask are better than Twilight Princess, and ALttP is argued by many to be the best one.
So is LoZ. the fucking gameplay is nothing special at all
>Chrono Trigger is better than Chrono Cross.
>The best tales of games all came before the ps3 era.
Bitch Xillia 2 is fucking amazing and trumps a lot of tales games.
>Resi 4 is better than any other action horror game that has come out since. The older Resi games are still better than some of the walking simulator horror games that appear.
You're so dumb anon. You helped proved my point
Yea its funny how pcfags drop thousands of dollars on a rig just play shit like DOTA, League, and TF2 all day
>B-but I can max out the settings whenever I want
>They usually don't
It started w/ PS2 and yeah, carried over to the PS3.
The PS2 really stunted console gaming by directly killing the Dreamcast w/ Sony's underhanded tactics.
Remember, Bleemcast had Playstation games running at higher resolution/better graphics than the PS2's shitty upscaling ever could
>I disagree. Human Revolution is superior in gameplay
Eh, I like it, but it certainly not quite as flexible as the originals. No melee weapons for one, not way to avoid bosses in the original version, and the areas even feel smaller, though I'm not sure if they were.
>X is certainly better than VIII and VI
u wot? X? The "cinematic experience" FF X, better than VI? Well, I guess if you like cutscenes.
Compare the actual gameplay of Skyward Sword to OoT or MM. Stamina, precision aiming and far smoother movement and navigation.
Compare Pokemon X/Y (or even B/W if you want to stay with sprite based games) to R/B/Y and look at the fucking mountains of improvements (natures, abilities, physical/special split etc...).
Compare Mario Galaxy to Mario 64 (free flight, smoother controls, gravity gimmicks)
Compare Kid Icarus: Uprising to Kid Icarus.
Online functionality, larger [and more populated] game worlds, faster save/load times, [manual] camera control, tighter controls, longer campaigns and achievements/trophies are all conventions that were impossible for older games for one reason or another and, with improvements in technology are now common across games. The biggest problem with the modern game industry is the appeal to the lowest common denominator in order to sell the most copies of a game. Level design and difficulty is relegated to the backseat in favor of mass appeal and cinematic presentation; that has nothing to do with technology and everything to do with the modern consumer of video games.
Yes, many games today are not as good as classic games of yesteryear, but that has very little to do with anything other than what 'gamers' want. If you look at well made, polished games (Dark Souls, Splatoon, Smash Brothers, Arkham Asylum, Kid Icarus etc...) they trump pretty much everything you could compare them too from the past. Your suggestion that "Very few game franchises and game genres have improved over the years ina nything but graphics" is patently absurd and distinctly juvenille.
Also, No More Heroes 2 was better than Killer 7; Soul Calibur 2 is literally a broken piece of shit that is laughed at competitively; and the combat in Silent Hill 1-3 is absolute shit and has been vastly improved in later installments.
More games coming out doesn't necessarily mean more good games.
A lot more licensed crap was being churned out back then, because it was so much cheaper to shit out games.
Every movie had a game, every tv show had a game, etc.
That void has been filled by indie shit anyway so it wouldn't really make much difference
The real problem with the industry right now is the internet itself. Devs don't care about putting out a polished product anymore because they can just patch it later. They've become completely brazen about it, to the point where get games like MCC, Arkham Knight PC, etc which are dead on arrival and literally broken.
You pay the money, you get a broken game, they keep your money and fix it when they feel like it.
Worse yet, this also encourages the endless stream of DLCshit and season passes, which allows them to put out half of a game, sell you a season pass and give you whatever tacked on pile of shit later on.
Just look at Battlefront. LITERALLY $120 for less content than Battlefront II had.
This whole thread is about games going back to how they looked like in the ps2 era, trading graphics for better gameplay. All of the games that I posted are from that era or before.
Both of the lists show that that is true. How are you not understanding this?
>Bitch Xillia 2 is fucking amazing and trumps a lot of tales games.
What? How? Ludger is fun I'll admit, but the shitty overuse of literal copy/pasted environments and horrible gald wall system (even if it was easy to make enough gald to move on) brought the game down a lot.
>that is laughed at competitively
Oh yeah, because if the tourneyfags say it's bad, it must be bad. I mean okay, some people play games to have fun rather than to compete, but what do they know?
high end graphics are very low on my priority list, consistent and original design are way more important.
>tfw i just had to have her
power stone appreciation thread?
That has jack shit to do with anything. you don't have to play a game competitively to know a game plays better. though if you are literally button mashing then I suppose that doesn't matter.
>tfw MGS3/FFXII-tier art direction and graphics with high resolution textures will never be a fad
>Skyward Sword < Ocarina of Time
>Pokemon XY > Pokemon RBY
>Mario Galaxy < Mario 64
Just because it brings something new to the table, doesn't automatically make it good. Stamina and how Skyward Sword plays is touted as one of the worst parts about the game.
Momentum alone and the freedom of movement in 64 alone puts it above the rest of the 3D mario games for me. the fluddless Sunshine levels and 3DW
albeit as great as I think 3DW is I do believe it took a hit in stage design as a concession for 4 player co-opdo have objectively better platforming levels however. I just wish they made another mario with 64's physics.
>well made and polished
>You had 600 people working on something like Resident Evil6.
There's a part of me that can't believe that 600 were actually needed to make RE6. Like I imagine you can make that game with way less.
They definitely wasted money by bloating things up that much.
When you got so many people working on shit communication cant be proper.
They expected CoD numbers. Fucking retarded. Capcom shouldve never moved away from making AA games. That always worked for them.
RE had to hire an acting cast for the cinematics and shit.
Also voice actors and stuff.
Most people ended up working for the grafics.
Game was pretty high budget.
Just nothing compared to now.
>The real problem with the industry right now is the internet itself. Devs don't care about putting out a polished product anymore because they can just patch it later. They've become completely brazen about it, to the point where get games like MCC, Arkham Knight PC, etc which are dead on arrival and literally broken.
This if they couldn't hide behind the excuse of patching games they'd have no choice but to put the extra effort to make them run good on release, or games that are good but didn't have time to be fixed would have gotten better reception because of a bugs or glitches.