>>322726298 It sounds as if you are being sarcastic. If that is the case then you are being sarcastic for no reason. Tetris is not an RPG. If you add levels to Tetris, you've added an RPG element, but you still don't have an RPG.
>>322726735 Yes, but if you add enough RPG elements people start seeing it as an RPG. You know, just like when you add enough humor to a movie and people start calling it a comedy. Notice how pretty much everyone except your dumb ass lists Dark Souls as an action RPG. Time to give yourself a reality check.
But there again, I'm one of those subhumans that genuinely like hotbar-MMO combat, so shows what I know.
I never understood what was wrong with pressing a button to make your character carry out an attack. Why make it into this delicate dance over a long-ass combination? If I know what I want to do, why should a game burden me with getting it done?
To me, the challenge in a game is figuring out the best or correct way of doing something, not carrying it out according to the game's rules.
I really like puzzle games and grand strategies too.
Yeah, there are a lot of similarities between the gameplay of the Tales series, Valkyrie Profile, Final Fantasy, Xenoblade, and Valkyria Chronicles. Oh wait, those games all play so differently they might as well all be different genres. Yet they're all JRPGs. Wonder why that is? Maybe it's because the only thing "JRPG" means is "it's an RPG from Japan." Jesus Christ, dude.
>>322727026 >when you add enough humor to a movie and people start calling it a comedy That sounds like retards missing the point of the movie or insulting it. If you want a comedy, you make a comedy. A movie having some humor in it doesn't make it a comedy. This is not so hard to understand.
>>322727307 >I never understood what was wrong with pressing a button to make your character carry out an attack
I haven't played Xenoblade, but the reason I hate this in hotbar MMOs is just that the majority of attacks are so inconsequential, you end up having to press 30 buttons a minute just to carry out the same things that auto-attack would handle for you in an older MMO.
>>322727609 I can't recall a single JRPG thread that was good. JRPG fans are already divided enough, constantly spewing venom and vitriol at each other, then you have outsiders that want to shit on all of them.
>>322727463 That's the point, you pathetic moron. That's why no one calls Call of Duty MP or Devil May Cry an RPG but everyone who's not a subhuman piece of shit calls Dark Souls one. The Souls games have enough to be considered an RPG. Hence the RPG label on its box, on its official site, on wikipedia, on Steam, on IGN, Gamefaqs, Gamespot etc etc every fucking relevant site that deals with video games. You dumb fuck.
>>322727914 But that's wrong. Granted I haven't been in JRPG threads for more than half a year but the ones I've been in were consistently good with people discussing their games just fine. They only become bad once the WRPG vs JRPG shitposters come in.
>>322727026 >if you add enough RPG elements people start seeing it as an RPG It doesn't matter what you see it as. If its an RPG, RPG elements don't increase or decrease its status as an RPG. RPG is a broad category that includes MOST games made in this day and age. Even COD is an RPG. The person in the single player has a preexisting story meant to be carried out and experienced by you through gameplay. That is a role playing game.
>Notice how pretty much everyone except your dumb ass lists Dark Souls as an action RPG It isn't THAT hard to notice that you replied to a different anon. Dark Souls may be an RPG but barely. I haven't personally played through it, but I've played through Bloodborne. In BB, you are given a defined role. Your character is your own creation, and lacks any real character development. The story was designed to be interpreted and created by the mind of the player. The game is void of a role, so how do you call it a role playing game? Is Dark Souls the same way, or is the lore a bit more definitive at least?
>everyone Argumentum ad populum. The correct answer is not always the popular answer.
>>322725720 no, the skill ceiling is high enough that you could have 1 in every stat and still wreck shit if you knew what you were doing. the statistic system is essentially meaningless anyways. we're talking about fashion souls here
>>322728487 JRPG started as a term to name all the RPGs coming from Japan, but with time it became its own genre. The stats, the leveling, the fantasy settings with races and classes all come from basic RPG, but the emphasis on anime-like story telling, characters and aesthetic, as well as the turn based combat systems are what make JRPGs what they are. Japanese people can and do make other kinds of RPGs all the time, so they're not all JRPGs.
>>322728496 >you are given a defined role >The game is void of a role Hahahaha. You can't even make this shit up. And protip, you retard: the mechanics decide what is an RPG.
This is not argumentum ad populum, you fucking retard, since it's not only people calling it that but the industry's own press and accredited stores. Everyone, except dumb fucks like you. But you are seriously a cretin enough to think you alone get to define what a genre means, congratulations on being dumber than my dog.
>Even COD is an RPG That's it. Just fucking end yourself.
>>322728791 I assume pre-made means there is some sort of story behind the character already. As long as you are forced into using that story, then you have a role. For example, if you have to choose to go through the game as a dark elf, then you've been assigned a role. If dark elf is all you have to go on, then it is a pretty weak role, but a role none the less. Bloodborne doesn't have anything definitive like that, and I assume neither does DaS but I wouldn't know since I didn't play it.
>>322728827 You only open more confusion, anime-like story telling, characters and aesthetic needs to be expanded upon then since there are many different styles of each of those among anime alone, furthermore are you sure its only for turn based? I see people call real-time combat RPGs from japan "JRPG" all the time
>>322729529 Isn't the role of the hunter in Bloodborne to hunt beasts and get blood or some shit? I haven't played it, but I believe your character had a role. In Dark Souls it's very clear, you're the chosen undead who must ring the bells, get the lordvessel and then get the souls of some gods to get access to the first flame. You're told all of this directly by the NPCs.
>>322729127 >you are given a defined role >The game is void of a role You can't realize that the first one is a typo that was supposed to read "you are not given a defined role"? Are you attempting to insult your own intelligence?
>This is not argumentum ad populum >since it's not only people calling it that but the industry's own press Something is not an argument based on popular opinion because it happens to have a really popular opinion? What kind of logic is that?
I agree with you, and this sentence is totally not sarcastic because I used too much sarcasm thus negating its status as sarcastic.
>to think you alone get to define what a genre means Right, I go by their original meaning. Not whatever random people think it should be in any given year.
>>322729732 Anime changes all the time, and in fact it's another term that's confusing in itself, so I'm afraid there's not much I can expand upon there. In any case, it's a style of doing things that's hard to replicate, so if it looks animeish to you, it's a good starting point.
>I see people call real-time combat RPGs from japan "JRPG" all the time As I said, it's genuinely confusing because of the J part, and even more if the game has an anime style going on too, but those should be called ARPGs, like the Tales of games, for example.
>>322729860 >Isn't the role of the hunter in Bloodborne to hunt beasts and get blood or some shit? Nope. Unless you feel like that is what you were meant to do. The game is only full of hints, and those hints have no actual meaning. From themselves actually mentioned that BB has no story because they preferred hearing the stories that the fans came up with.
Generally when I think of a JRPG I think of a few of the following things.
1. When battling enemies, a transition from town/overworld map to a map/area suited for battle. Maybe not a full screen-wipe, but definitely some sort of augmentation to surroundings that differentiates it from just walking around/exploring.
2. Transition from non-battle music to a battle theme.
3. Use/navigation of menus to select skills/actions.
4. A party of characters. Meaning more than 1. This is where the souls games fall short for me in terms of a JRPG (genre). They are more similar to the Baldur's Gate games on PS2 than JRPG's.
Legend of mana had many weapons and every weapon had it's own combos that you could learn. It was nice but didn't the game was so easy that it didn't really matter. Would be kind of cool to have game like Ys with weapons and combos from Legend of mana.
>>322730191 >he really is fucking stupid enough to think you have no defined role in the souls games >he thinks official accredited sources in any field count as "popular opinion" >he thinks he alone defines genres
Hahahaha. You're amazing. It's like I'm having a conversation with a piece of shit that can type on keyboard. Your IQ is below room temperature.
You're like a fucking retard who goes to the zoo, points at the lion and says it's a bird. And then when you're shown that everyone else knows it's called a lion and even all the biologists and zoologists call it a lion, you go into your kneejerk WAAAH THAT'S WRONG ALL OF THEM ARE WRONG IT'S JUST ARGUMENTUM AD POPULUM I know it's really a bird I KNOW THE ORIGINAL MEANING!!!!!!
>Bravely Default >Tales of Graces f and every fucker who complains about NO-AIR-COMBOS you have Xillia 2 >Shadow Hearts Covenant >Star Ocean 3 >Final Fantasy 13: Lighting Returns >Final Fantasy X-2 >Fate/Extra. I really liked it. Don't judge >Kingdom Hearts 2 FM there are many good systems. I can't pick just one.
>>322730348 I was just messing around, frankly I disagree with you wholeheartedly
furthermore Tales games are RPGs with Real time combat. the genre of a game is supposed to give an idea of the type of game, its not any more action focused than any other RPG calling it an Action RPG makes no sense.
JRPG is a stupid term because it cannot be properly defined if you are going to say things like anime-like then say the criteria for anime like cant be defined because its always changing, do you not see how fucking stupid it is to use a term for something that has no criteria because its details always change?
>>322727608 If it was more fleshed out, maybe. The maps didn't really provide enough light/shadow spots and you more or less fought the same battles over and over again. I forgot the name of the MC but he was definitely the most fun character.
>>322727608 Just started playing this last weekend. I would have agreed if the combat system stayed set with one party-level shit or at the least changed less gradually. It's trying to do too many things and not on combat alone. No wonder this game flopped. It lacks direction.
>>322730623 You generally think wrong then. JRPG describes the country of origin of the game. Nothing more.
Is it a RPG by any definition? Is it from Japan? It's a JRPG. JRPG doesn't describe a certain mechanics. If you want to talk about mechanics then you say it's "turn based", "action based", "party based" or whatever the fuck would describe that particular game.
Stop being contrarian. Most people talking about JRPG's in a JRPG thread know that the name refers to a general style of RPG's with certain characteristics (such as battle screen transitions/battle theme/parties of characters on a quest) that was became super prevalent around the SNES/PSX era- most of which happened to come from Japan.
The J doesn't imply that role playing games are all/always made in Japan or that they have to be, just that a very large percentage of popular games that defined the genre happened to come from Japan. I would call Undertale a JRPG even though it wasn't made in Japan. I would not call any souls game a JRPG because it doesn't have those characteristics. It's more like an action RPG or a dungeon crawler with RPG elements.
But blah blah blah you'll just ignore it all and go "HURR DURRRR IT'S THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN THAT MATTERS" even when it clearly does not.
>>322731007 >he really is fucking stupid enough to think you have no defined role in the souls games Actually I specifically say Bloodborne. I don't have the experience with the Souls games necessary to make such a claim. How thick headed are you to not get that?
>he thinks official accredited sources in any field count as "popular opinion" If the accredited sources share the same opinion as the masses, then yes they shared a popular opinion.
>he thinks he alone defines genres Nope. Again, I am going by their original meaning, not one of my own creation.
>You're like a fucking retard who goes to the zoo, points at the lion and says it's a bird. Actually, it is more like I'm the guy who calls a tomato a fruit even though the accredited people at the white house decided a pizza is a vegetable due to the tomatoes present in the sauce. Or the guy who calls a microwave an appliance even though the accredited people at the white house have decided a single IP address represents a person, and a microwave happens to have its own IP address. Or the guy who calls the world round even though the accredited people in Europe decided it is flat.
Accreditation does not make anything "correct". It just means that a person or group of people have acknowledged that you have studied a subject enough to satisfy that person or group.
BTW, who are these accredited people you speak of, and how did they go about gaining their "knowledge"?
>>322731542 The battle system is great, agreed. Unfortunately there's a total lack of balance in the first game and the third game has shitty recycled maps with randomly generated enemies. So much wasted potential.
>>322731747 You people want to think the JRPG as a genre. And genre describes the mechanics of the game.
But JRPG doesn't. It has nothing to do with the mechanics of the game at this point. It's just another term to describe a game. You wouldn't call "anime artstyle" a genre either. JRPG is used in the same way. It describes the game but it DOESN'T describe the mechanics.
>>322731747 Look up a list of Genres and Sub-Genres. JRPG will not be on there. Neither will WRPG. Because J and W stand for where the game came from. JRPG is not a genre. You don't see JRPG or WRPG listed on a game's box or wikipedia page. I don't understand what's so hard to understand about this.
Because the J is an all encompassing term that is derived from a group of genre defining games that came out around the same period of time- most of which happened to be from Japan.
I agree maybe a different name should be chosen. But the J is just an easy umbrella term for most people. Much easier to say than STTBMNRPG (Screen Transition Turn-based Menu Navigation RPG). It's just a name that let your brain go into heuristic mode and go "ah, some of these properties".
>>322732105 >And genre describes the mechanics of the game.
I'd like to extend this, Genre also is a tool we use as a means of convenience not exclusion, just because a game is an RPG doesn't mean it cant be an adventure game, the point of genres is to identify and categorize the focus of the game, calling Dark Souls an Action RPG makes sense because its half action game half RPG, Action RPG isn't a sub-genre of RPG that are action focused, a stacked adjective genre means multi or split focus.
So yes >>322731678, you can call Pacman an RPG because you technically play the role of pacman but because that is not the focus of the game it will never be categorized as such because its 1% RPG and 99% <non RPG genre>
Protect yourself against autism. Be overly clear and say. "best battle system of turn based rpgs, especially those that came from japan. Things like the tale series count, but action oriented like zelda, alundra and dark souls don't. Mostly final fantasy inspired"
>>322732285 But that's the only element there, except for maybe the linear character progression but even that's very unusual. The overworld and battle areas are one and the same, there's no party, no battle themes, no lengthy intro towns or any kind of towns really. It's clearly considered a JRPG but it lacks all of the elements typically associated with JRPGs.
Hm, notice I said there doesn't have to be a full screen wipe or anything like that, but there definitely is a transition as extra enemies pop out, your extra characters pop out from the main character, AND a battle theme initiates. So there's still a change.
So there is a distinct difference between battle/non-battle, a group of characters, and a transition in music. Still covers points 1, 2, and 4 in my post here: >>322730623
Notice I said there actually didn't need to be a full screen wipe to count. Chrono Trigger doesn't have a transition screen either but is still a JRPG by my definition based on how the game changes when a battle starts.
>>322731936 >he hasn't even played the shit we've been discussing >he is literally fucking retarded enough to think professionals in the field are popular opinion >thinking arbitrary lawmaking that only applies to one country and contradicts every professional source is similar to this situation where literally everyone except your uneducated fucktard ass agrees on something
>I am going by their original meaning, not one of my own creation However this part is interesting. Link me to this original meaning you go by, from a reputable source of course. This should be fun.
>>322732491 >Because the J is an all encompassing term Only you think like this. If I hear a term JRPG, I think of a RPG from Japan. After that I ask "What kind of JRPG? Turn based? Party based? Real time action? Dose it have simulation elements?", because JRPG doesn't describe the mechanics.
>>322732525 Yes. I think Dark Souls as Action RPG too but the term JRPG also describes is just as well.
That's where we're different. If someone says "JRPG" I think "Oh like a breath of fire, suikoden, or a final fantasy". If someone means an RPG type different from that in my mind, I expect them to come out and say "Well my favorite strategy RPG is FFT as it is better blah and blah than Arc the Lad, a different strategy RPG".
>>322726758 >Can block the, at the time, instakill move from a boss that you're supposed to lose to Can't say I've seen that before, but fuck blocking some of the attacks. The wizards in deathlandia with their screen shakers come to mind first.
I guess it's just a nuance then from people who played more of them during the time they were more popular. You could go on any gamefaqs forum from ~1995-2005 and say JRPG and people knew you weren't talking about a disagaea or basically any game with the word "tactics" in the name. It was a distinction that arose from necessity and brevity that allowed people to generalize in their minds a difference in way battles/encounters played out.
It might be an artifact now but amongst people who played them at the time "JRPG" was not a confusing utterance. People knew what you meant.
>>322733791 We are not confused about your definition, we just no longer use it since its deprecated, the definition of words can evolve and change over time, it just so happens that JRPG is basically deprecated because parity is no longer reached, because tomorrow or the next day when this argument spurs out again because someone doesn't think Dark Souls is a JRPG that guy will think Tales games are JRPGs. what i'm saying is people who use the term JRPG NOW use it for anything from "anime RPG" to "turn based RPG" the amount of splits or groups of people that have slightly differen't meanings for the word JRPG have made the term useless. The only thing that they all agree on about it is that the J stands for Japan.
>>322731178 >Bravely Default One of my biggest problems with BD was that too many of the passive abilities felt lackluster, so there felt like there was no interesting builds to do around them. I was hoping to get a FFT without the 3D battlefield which would have already been a downgrade.
>>322725723 Ironically, I like Suikoden 1 and 2's combat system for those exact same reasons. Except you obviously have to swap out characters because there's ~70 playable ones, but games alleviate that by giving you six combat slots. First two games had blazingly fast combat with no LOADINGU bullshit or anything.
>>322722848 >>322737453 >Going into the menu every few seconds and minmaxing to fuck >The best combat system. Lots of people have played Vagrant Story, but didn't like going into menus constantly in combat.
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