Are they classics worthy of praise, okay games, or overrated garbage with a cancerous fanbase?
Funnily enough, they're all three.
I personally think they're GOAT but they're also the only real 'sonic' games. Even Spinball was a better game than anything that came out after 1994. No, I'm not exaggerating for effect.
'3D' sonic is not sonic. Sonic can't do 3D.
Sonic & Knuckles
5 awesome platformers. Everything else is not worth touching. MAYBE Sonic Generations, Sonic Rush, and Sonic Advance 1. That's a big maybe though, only if you really like the other 5 and you are craving more.
It can be played separately so its a game of its own. When combined, it makes for the best experience and all that shit, but the people that would correct me miss the big picture.
All of the Genesis Sonic games are mediocre, and it all stems from a lack of a proper difficulty curve. Had Sonic just had a normal life bar instead of rings which allow for an infinite number of hits, the games probably would be much better.
Overrated garbage would imply even a moderate minority of naysayers knew shit about overall design and weren't just as cancerous as fanboys.
Much like Final Fantasy VII the RPG, and not the franchise.
they are pretty solid platformers with amazin music and bosses. It was different form a lot of other platformers because of the speed, physics, loops,e tc.
the NES/SNES Mario 2d games were much better tho. and all sonic games after gensis sucked for the most part
>Games should be so hard that only a few people can complete them
Except that's entirely wrong, the best games are easy to learn and hard to master.
The sonic games were rightfully easy to complete, but if you didn't gitgud you'd never get a good score.
The only good Sonic is the commonly agreed on opinion.
If you honestly think the clunky and unpolished messes that are the Adventure games are any good outside of music you're blinded by nostalgia.
I still have fun with them. They're not all bad. Not 2/10 or anything. I'm VERY good at them though, like all 180 emblems and speed running good. That might influence things a bit, when you're insanely good at a game its a rush.
I don't sit here and claim they're GOAT though
Playing for score in an intentionally easy game is just boring. Had the games gotten progressively more difficult as they progressed, it might have held my interest. That's the formula for good game design and games that are actually satisfying to play.
Freedom Planet is basically Sonic done right.
>Even the Genesis games are bad and the main reason is because rings
Top fucking kek. That is the most retarded idea I've read all year so far. And I have been keeping track. Congratulations on topping the list. What idiotic Youtuber did you hear that from? And tell me, what is your favorite 3D Sonic?
>Overrated garbage would imply even a moderate minority of naysayers knew shit about overall design and weren't just as cancerous as fanboys.
What? Rephrase please.
>No, every game that came after the Genesis era games caused the autistic fanbase that exists today
Yeah, by bringing out the autism of classic games' fans who flew into rage that 3D Sonic was different than their 2D Sonic. Incidentally, they were right all along, but still.
>Lots of design problems.
>Playing for score in an intentionally easy game is just boring.
Objectively false statement. If you play for score, you set your own difficulty based on how much you challenge yourself.
That's like saying, speedrunning intentionally easy games is boring. It doesn't even make sense any sense.
>Had the games gotten progressively more difficult as they progressed, it might have held my interest.
>difficulty is all that matters
Now you're starting to sound like a fedora tipper. The undeniable fact is the games' overall design did progress considerably over time. The difficulty factor may have remained more or less the same, but that was by design. And besides, difficulty by itself is just one aspect of game design and there's no reason to assume that just because that doesn't change, that nothing else has changed either. I hope you can see now just how stupid the mere idea of that sounds.
Fyi: the mere concept of moving at the speed of sound and manueverinhnlike sonic does is insane for human abilities. Let alone the fact we can't do it, we also can't comprehend it. We don't have a fast enough brain for a true sonic game. Thats why most 3d sonics are on rails/nowhere near as fast as speed of sound.
/v/''s opinion is based on whatever the current popular YouTube e-celebs say and right now it's popular to bash the classic Sonic games.
This board is filled with teenagers trying to out edge each other on an anonymous image board. Don't take anything they say seriously. The game's are genuine classics.
Advance 1 should be in that list definitely
3&K is definitely how it's supposed to be played(Sonic 3 Complete hack is the best way to play it though)
Pocket Adventure is also fun
The Game Gear games are a fun distraction too
Rush is garbage
Generations is just decent fanservice not much else
Sonic "can't" do 3D, or "Hasn't done" 3D? Very important distinction there, Anon. Just because Sonic Team is an incompetent bunch of hacks doesn't mean that 3D Sonic is impossible by principle.
Why must Americans call our Mega Drive such an awful name?
If you go fast, you can't really engage in any kind of real gameplay since you won't have time to react to anything on the screen.
On the other hand, there is this kind of speedrunner mentality to it, where you learn the level, then you execute it at high speed, and being good at the game is supposed to be its own reward?
Whatever the case, they're alright.
93, got into genesis a couple years ago but never cared about Sonic.
I have actually played a bit of Knuckles but i get bored fast. Sonic 2 is the only i can get some enjoyment.
Sonic isn't about just going fast, you dumb kid. Sonic just had sections that could scroll exceptionally fast, like in Chemical Plant Zone. There were plenty of spots to be cautious, deliberate and slow in Sonic.
Not even the original publisher manages to replicate the original games.
None of the Sonic clones have either. People love comparing Freedom Planet to Sonic, but that shit plays more like Rocket Knight Adventure than Sonic.
>If you go fast, you can't really engage in any kind of real gameplay since you won't have time to react to anything on the screen.
You can, though. The gameplay you experience is more in the setup. It's not unlike an RPG in that sense, where some of the gameplay occurs outside of battle, planning your tactics and equipping your characters in the menu screens. In an RPG, the reward and part of what makes that pre-gameplay worthwhile and satisfying is watching your results unfolding before your eyes later when you finally do enter battle mode. In Sonic it's getting to continue to go fast.
>On the other hand, there is this kind of speedrunner mentality to it, where you learn the level, then you execute it at high speed, and being good at the game is supposed to be its own reward?
You're right, Sonic's gameplay requires this. If you want to experience the 'going fast' mode of it. In general pretty much all games come down to learning the mechanics then demonstrating knowledge of them to win. Compared to RPGs, Sonic involves more practice and learning from experience than strategizing and forethought. Which leads to it having an arcade-y feel that apparently a lot of ignorant people with poor taste can't appreciate or even recognize that it's there. So they claim the game is fundamentally flawed because of trial and error enemies appearing out of no where no gameplay something or other so on and so forth.
In any case, interesting thought. Here's from /vr/.
The fact that rings allow for infinite mistakes makes the stages utterly asinine and boring. If anything, the design of these games only got worse with time, with Sonic 3&K's stage gimmicks generally wasting the players time rather than providing difficulty. Platformers are supposed to be glorified obstacle courses to challenge yourself with, and punishing bad players is apart of that.
Too many people are viewing the Sonic games with rose-tinted spectacles.
>The fact that rings allow for infinite mistakes
Sorry, but that is simply not true. They may supersede a formal health bar, but in a given encounter you will eventually run out of rings no matter how many you had to start with. After enough time, your 1 remaining ring will become uncatchable. I'm not sure exactly how long this takes, I'd guess anywhere from 3-6 hits.
Maybe that is a lot. You could say that makes the levels easier. But it's not like it trivializes them because odds are you are never going to need to rely on the rings to their full potential as health -- the game just isn't that hard in the first place. And if it was, then that would be just as bad than what you (incorrectly) described and it would have drawn just as much criticism from people like you who would claim it is unfairly difficult.
The rings are a robust design choice serving as health bar, collectible, and arrow showing where to go. At worst, they reduce the skill ceiling of the game for experienced players who won't even notice. At best, they help keep new players from getting fed up and dropping the game on the spot. It's a system that benefits everyone and harms no one. How is that bad?
Are you really arguing that Sonic would have been better without rings? Explain then.
No spectacles here of any kind. My hindsight is 20/20.
about 8 years ago tried playing them and the controls were jarring
understand better the "pinball physics" now and the games are unique and an interesting momentum centric platformer in the vain of the original smb
interestingly the newer games are about flow and going fast and mostly disregard the slope manipulation from the mega drive games
>stages utterly asinine and boring. If anything, the design of these games only got worse with time,
Do these stages look asinine and boring? Did they really get worse over time?
I'll let you be the judge. But your whole arguement is predicated on the false idea that video games' overall quality is directly proportional to one element of its overall design, difficulty, and that challenge is their primary measure of enjoyment.
Which, to me, sounds precisely like the kind of thinking of a teenager. And I don't even mean that as an insult, I'm just being honest that's what you sound like to me. Your opinion is uninformed, misguided, poorly thought out, and rooted in personal insecurity among other things.
The rings are easily abusable to allow the player to make a stupid number of mistakes which, maybe of benefit for beginners, destroys any replay value the games might have for experienced players due to the low difficulty.
Yes, Sonic would be better if he just had a normal life bar or power-ups that have him take 1-2 hits ala Mario, with rings completely removed. It would actually make it an accomplishment to be able to go consistently fast and reward memorisation. It would also mean the developers would actually have to put some thought into placing health pickups throughout the stages to reward good players, instead of rings everywhere as a solution to make the games easy to play for 3-6 year olds.
>easily abusable to allow the player to make a stupid number of mistakes which, maybe of benefit for beginners, destroys any replay value the games might have
Hahahaha that is fuckin' laughable.
Jesus I don't even know where to begin you are so wrong about so many things. But ok here we go.
>Sonic would be better if he just had a normal life bar or power-ups that have him take 1-2 hits ala Mario
>more things should be more like Mario
I don't want to live in that reality. If nothing else, the rings were an innovative approach to health.
>It would actually make it an accomplishment to be able to go consistently fast and reward memorisation.
If you're playing video games for a sense of accomplishment I would argue you're doing it for the wrong reason. Vidya should be about the journey, not the destination. Going fast is the reward for good gameplay. Learning to perform well and then actually performing well and being so rewarded are all parts of the entertainment.
>It would also mean the developers would actually have to put some thought into placing health pickups throughout the stages to reward good players
Yeah because more health is so much more innovative than rewarding players in other ways, like speed, which is pretty much what the whole franchise is based upon.
>instead of rings everywhere as a solution to make the games easy to play for 3-6 year olds.
Do you really think that's all the rings do?
Rings aren't just health, they were utilized as a end of level score bonus and as a key to access the bonus levels. You could just pick one up and keep going, but your end score would suck, and you wouldn't be able to get into the bonus levels. The only exception is Sonic 3&Knuckles where the Special Stages are hidden throughout the levels in those giant warp rings, though they still have that bonus level inside the checkpoint feature. Rings are Sonic's bread and butter. Adding a health bar is extremely counter intuitive and removes the tension of losing your bounty.
You saw less & less rings as you progressed, and less rings popped out each time you were hit. That reduced your health quick coupled with the fact that rings shot out in every direction when you were hit, so you could not grab them all before they disappeared. I could never make it past Metal Sonic as a kid because I only had something like a 10 ring stack by the time I got there, which left me with maybe 3 mistakes before death. Assuming I could pick up all of my rings each time they were knocked out.
Rocket Knight was way better though