That's not really true though, there are still very many unanswered questions and revelations abound. Nobody really knows for sure what role the Amygdalans play, and it was just today that someone revealed the role of the player character and his/her mysterious note and mysterious invitation to Cainhurst.
>>322718295 >and it was just today that someone revealed the role of the player character and his/her mysterious note and mysterious invitation to Cainhurst. Got a link to an article or video? That piques my interest
>>322720315 Yea, that's definitely an issue. It was difficult enough piecing together background on anything with relatively vague items descriptions. Cutting those out pretty much gives you a puzzle missing waaay more of the pieces than I think is necessary.
I think coming to your own realizations about it is part of its theme: all of Lovecraft's protagonists were educated, learned people who all suffered because of their curiosity. Their newfound knowledge was too much of them to handle. If it were too hamfisted it would lose one its biggest strengths. Or I could be a huge projecting faggot who knows
If anything, BB is the most overt of the Souls games. Granted, it's lacking a pure expository character like Frampt, but going harder would be a mistake. This is especially so, considering that one of the core themes of the plot (and eldritch Lovecraftian bullshit in general) is how humans deal with the unknowable and unfathomable. If you explain the elder gods too much, they cease to be unknown, and the characters' extreme reactions to them are less... understandable.
In other words, your "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?!" reaction when moving through the Research Hall should be the same as that of the researchers upon discovering the Eldritch Truth.
>>322720315 You get info on the Cleric Beast from the Sword Hunter Badge You get loads of info on Gascoigne Info on the BSB comes from its appearance, its setting and the version of it you see earlier in the level. Vicar Amelia is the same as Gascoigne, you even see her in Old Hunters etc.
The only bosses that are pretty enigmatic are the Shadows, really.
Games dont have to follow any conventions in storytelling. If you give a shit about the story, then you can read item descriptions and watch youtube videos. If you don't give a shit about the story, you can go kill monsters and skip cutscenes. Its perfect.
>>322718740 Eh, Bloodborne had the guy in the window by the first lamp who's telling you to get to the church to explain the whole paleblood thing that the guy in the cutscene (and a note on the table where you start) was talking about, and mentions both the bridge and the aqueduct as ways to get there if you talk to him multiple times. Once you do make it to the church, there's a cutscene where they start talking about more shit. Not to mention Gehrman giving you hints if you bothered to talk to him. Seemed pretty clear where to go to me
The one question that I have is why the woods had weird snake magic. It was the only area in the game to use it and it's never seen again. Even the Shadows in the nightmare frontier don't use it like they did in the forest
>>322722373 Shadows aren't really enigmatic in my mind, their explanation just isn't that deep.
>Labyrinth is under Byrgenwerth >That's where Pthumeria stuff is >Including Queen Yharnam >Shadows of -Yharnam- >Same reason they're regular enemies in Mensis before you see the queen right before Wet Nurse
They basically just guarding the Queen. As the access to Pthumeria is under Byrgenwerth, they haunt the areas around Byrgenwerth.
As for seeing Amelia in the Old Hunters? You mean the White Priest gear spell caster right after Ludwig? You can hear he giving the same prayer, but I don't think there is any indication that that is actually Amelia herself, as opposed to just a high ranking member of the church.
Bloodborne's really not that complicated, at least to understand the major story beats. There are some smaller elements that are a little esoteric/lack proper in-game explanation, but then Dark Souls had those too so whatever. For the most part I think it's my favourite story in the Souls franchise, with my only real complaint being that it really doesn't give me much of a reason to give a fuck about most of the NPCs compared to other Souls games.
I think something like Dark Souls 2 is a lot worse, because it just feels like they were winging it with the writing/lore. In DaS and BB I felt like I was uncovering bits of a bigger picture, and it felt like everything fit together. Like, even if something wasn't fully explained, it always felt like there might be an explanation somewhere, even if it was just sitting on some writer's PC and never made it into the game.
With DaS2 I never felt like everything fit together and it seemed like a lot of stuff was thrown in just because. The first time I finished the game I actually had to stop and think "wait, why am I here, and why did I do all the things I just did?" I was so uninvested in the half-assed story that I'd just been doing things for the sake of progressing in the game and not for any contextual reason in-universe.
I don't really play Souls games for the story in the first place though, so it's ultimately a bit of a moot point. The story is just window dressing for me, and I'm not the sort of person who gets into reading up on lore or watching videos about it or whatever.
Those are actually the two exceptions I would give, along with maybe doll waifu. I really like Eileen, and Alfred is interesting. But that's just a couple of NPCs in the entire game, and the rest are all really unmemorable for me. Whereas I remember/like pretty much every NPC in Demon's/Dark Souls, and even in Dark Souls 2 I can think of four or five that I like.
>>322724395 >I think something like Dark Souls 2 is a lot worse, because it just feels like they were winging it with the writing/lore
The lore is all the souls games just feel like they just wing it. None of it is deep or well fleshed out. Specially considering Miyazaki takes his storytelling style from Team Ico while incorporating shit you'd get from Berserk, who both do what he does with lore and story a lot better anyway.
Souls games lore has always been weak to me. Nothing really impressive. That's why I don't play the games for it.
>>322723702 Disagree I suppose. I don't think there is a single other person that is seen alive in the base game AND inside the Hunter's Nightmare.
It also makes sense that literally any high ranking priest would pray to the shrine/skull of the First Vicar, reciting a standard prayer.
It's obvious that it's a high ranking member of the church, perhaps even a Vicar of some era, but with literally no implicit or explicit references I think it's impossible to say that it's Vicar -Amelia-.
>yeah just go kill a bunch of shit, don't think about it
Honestly Gehrman was a huge missed opportunity as a character. He has like five lines when he could have been the consistent mentor character that you might actually grow attached to by the end of the game where you're given the choice to fight him. As it stands he just fucks off after you talk to him twice, and doesn't tell you anything interesting.
>>322718295 Amygdala are great ones that come to answer people's prayers because they're sympathetic in nature. They just watch below in curiosity. They're just the most common great ones who's role is no more than curious brings. Patches worships one of them.
>>322727287 No the Choir are the highest ranking members of the church. Most of them have been there since Bryngnwerth .
They know the most of the truth, that's why they have that very unique Explosion Spell from making contact with the Great ones. Also one of the members was changing people into kin as her desperate resort for experimentation.
>>322727415 Kind of. If I remember correctly, there's Gherman, who started the hunter's workshop and was the first hunter. Later, the Healing Church started their own group of hunters which was lead by Ludwig. I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that there are two groups of hunters, ones associated with the church, and those associated with Gherman
>>322727415 Sort of. At first Hunters were a secretive order to kill people who became beasts from the blood they took. They're the healing church because the mysterious blood the have can cure any disease, but turns people into beasts if given enough. It turns out to be Great One blood btw.
The Hunters used to be a secretive order. Now it's pretty much for anyone to do, were an outsider that came to hunt. It's not so much church exclusive anymore but they do lead the hunts.
>>322727921 Dude, if they're sympathetic then why they're hostile when we approach them? I mean, we Hunters could just try to calm them down and said we're only hunting man-beasts. Or those man-beasts mean the Great Ones have succeeded in communicating with us and don't want us to stir shit up?
>>322728236 >Dude, if they're sympathetic then why they're hostile when we approach them? I'm sympathetic towards homeless people. I am not, however, okay with hobos running at me in my house with a gun and cleaver
But that had nothing to do with her. Thats also not true. The thing that allows you to go to the nightmare is laurence's memory. Withing the nightmare itself is not only an entirely different skull but it is also implied that its a fabrication in the nightmare directly from the memory of laurence.
>>322728331 There's a theory that Mergo was preventing the moon becoming red, so that's why you need to slay him for the moon presence to appear. Similar to how Rom was stopping the moon from seeing the world as it truly is by blocking the ritual.
>>322728501 The Bell ladies are from the underground labyrinth. As to what the fuck was that thing they conjured, really no explanation. Only thing I saw was trying to give Oedon a form but that's highly unlikely
What I don't understand is what is the waking world? What is a dream, in this game's context? Or it is as literal as it means, meaning we are all in a dream, every single one of the humans in that place. So in the waking world, we don't know what happened to them, some might be dead and the Great Ones can only be in dreams. Was it?
>>322728785 Waking world is the physical world. Aka not the hunters dream or the nightmares. Like Yharnam. Dreams are alternate planes of existence overlapping our own. The Great Ones seems to control them
THere's enough shitty narrative driven "games" out there. I love the SOuls games because it's pretty much 100% gameplay and actually playing the game instead of playing a glorified point n click game disguised as a TPS or an ARPG with a "great story"
I believe that the great one reborn was a perverted version of Orphan of Kos that was revived from the shadow it left behind in its womb that mensis needed the ritual completed to revive again to "grant them eyes" but Rom was preventing them from spreading the madness.
>>322729734 Something like that yeah. I believe they actually directly worked with the Great Ones, living alongside them. There is a theory that the Great Ones ascended while the Pheteoreums (sp?) Were left behind. Indicating that the Great Ones were at a different state of existence at the time.
Alfred told you about Burgertown, and how it's connected deeply to Yharnam's blood healing. You figure that it's worth a shot to go see what's going on there. You find Willem, the leader of the college, and he points you towards the lake. You go there and find a passive being, posing absolutely no threat to you.
>>322730109 I don't think she was grieving over Rom. Rom is a human female that became empty minded when she ascended to Great One status. She was proof humans could ascend. She was helped to ascend by Kos. What that means I'm not sure, I think it means that a true Great One needs to die for a human to ascend similar to how the MC needs to kill the Moon Presence. But that's solely my theory.
>>322730809 Anything enlightened in Bloodborne was once a human aspiring to be an Old One. The college straight up mentions that Rom is enlightened, so she was definitely human at one point, a counter-thesis to Micolash. She holds the nightmare back, while he is helping to cause it. Micolash even also alludes to it pretty well over the enlightenment and giving us eyes after directly talking of Rom and Kos/Kosm.
There is also a reason why Rom is in the Chalice Dungeons as well. Because that's what they aspire to be from the Depths, where they first found Rom. Similar to how Paarl was transformed into a Darkbeast by Archibald based on his love of the Loran Darkbeast, same reason Tonitrus and Tiny Tonitrust was made, to copy Loran DB's lightning effects.
I always guessed that the waking headstones take you into the echo of reality where the tortured and twisted minds of Yharnams dead citizens still live coalesced into a "dream" a plain of existence that exists almost like an after life. In this way people either denied the calamity that they lived through (residents that wont leave their homes) or actively accept and reject their plight but are cowards (visible NPCs) and those who are aggressively seeking answers (hunters) whether it be to why they died or like the pro-tag and his/her illness is bothering them. Thats why in the dream people can fight great monsters, which end up being reflections of our own inner desires, faults, fears, and every other human trait (ala psychological monsters from silent hill 2), unlike 'normal' people that would stand no chance like is implied in some early descriptions. In this existence Elder Gods and Great Ones have some clout and use that influence on those they take pity on (the dead but feeble minded humans) and work towards various ends of showing the great truth of the mystery of the universe to us lowly humans who are mired in our own insecurities and obsessions that we cant even be bothered to see how great our limitations can be. Thats why the endings vary so much We can choose to reject moving on since we were only near death and awaken in that completely empty but clearly devastated Yharnam IN REAL LIFE, hold onto the dream without accepting the gift of the Great One and Elder beings (which are probably like mass consciousnesses that could reach out to us from the vastness of the cosmos), or ascend to something greater than ourselves by accepting whole heartedly the universal truth from the void of existence.
>>322728025 >implying I have time to play >people shouldn't tell stories, just make up your own with what little content there is >yes game is rushed, sub 30fps game play on "next gen" hardware >Sony published, implying they didn't rush it for their share holders C'mon you Fromdrone, get a grip.
>>322731493 There's indication that two Hunter npcs in the game have been in the Hunter dreams previously and have woken up and no longer dream. Showing that Yharnam is real life. You lose access to the dream by waking up as your purpose was fullfilled. Or you can deny it, kill Gerhman, and take his place which seems to be a bad ending unless you were trying to relieve Gehrman. Final one you become a great one, indicating that there is another Great One besides the Moon Presence who's influence you are under.
Although some of it is wrong. Or totally up to interpretation. I downright disagrees with some of it it's still fairly accurate. Although the DLC really flipped some of it upside down. Such as the part where he confuses Kos with Cosmos, because at the time we didn't know Kos was its own great one.
It's like you didn't read the post with the second half of your comment. He already referenced the endings. Besides Djura and Eileen Imply they no longer visit the hunters dream which is a direct incarnation of the Moon Presences Influence. It was created by sacrificing Gherman when he and Laurence accidentally contacted it and asked for its help. And no duh you're under the influence of other great ones for gods sake you inject yourself with Odeon every time you heal
>>322731868 The Old Hunters (Kos/Orphan)->Pthumerians (Labyrinth Worship/Depths)->Brygenwerth (Willem/Laurence/Rom)->Queen Yharnam is found (Testing/Rom the Vacuous Spider)->Laurence/Gerhman leave Willem to his experiments->Laurence establishes Healing Church->Laurence and the Healing Church find Ebrietas in one of the Labryinths/Depths->Ebriest leads them to a dead Great One (likely Oedon)->Healing Church uses it's blood for experiments->Grand Cathedral is built to house the dead Great One and Ebrietas->Yharnam built around Grand Cathedral->Mergo is born and ultimately died leading to the Nightmare by Oedon->His blood consumption begins turning the citizens into Beasts->Gehrman comes into contact with Moon Presence and begins the Hunt->New Yharnam is built->Healing Church splits into two (black for fighting, white for healing)->Gehrman eventually dies and the Moon Presence gifts him with the Hunter's Dream to continue his studies into ending the Nightmare (side effect of other Hunter's Dreaming too)->Rom is used as a way to halt the progress of the Nightmare->You/Player Character eventually comes along and does everything up to Rom->Nightmare Spreads->Fight with Micolash to stop his ritual of using the Nightmare and spreading Oedon's blood (using Mergo's Wet Nurse as a catalyst)->Moon Presence has defeated Oedon (two opposing Old Ones)->Ending (Gehrman has been training Hunters to deal with the Moon Presence after all this time (as a replacement for him to channel the Moon Presence's will)->One Third Ending (see the truth)->It can't take control of you due to all the blood within you and you transcending humanity above all those that wanted eyes or to become Great Ones->Humanity begins elevated passed Great Ones->Old Blood god is slowly eradicated by you and your transcended humans
Best I can do, still some issues with Gehrman's First Hunt and Hunters existing during The Old Hunters DLC. Unless MP was found first, & Geh trained hunters to fight against the Hamlet.
>>322732804 Couldn't it be that she was impregnated by a Pthumerian? The Orphan is tall and white/greyish like the Pthumerians, the only difference is that it had "angel-like" wings because Gods and shit. Couldn't it be that Burgertown wanted to recreate Orphan by doing those experiments, so that they can find a way to evolve humans towards angels-like beings?
Objective complete: killed Mergo and her wet nurse. New objective : return to the hunters dream and interact with Gehrman to finish the hunt Optional: find the three umbilical cord Optional: confront Gehrman
This is what people want.
What they also want: cliche movie dialogue where the great ones explain they're evil sinister plot to you to wrap things up for you even though they have no reason to
Well to be fair I heard this from another anon in a pretty good in depth lore deciphering thread a while back but we can infer from the difficulty the great ones have multiplying and how they need humans to impregnate like Odeon did with the Pthumarions That Kos a great one didn't end up pregnant with Orpan all on her own or with another great one and elder horror or not you don't end up pregnant after you die!
>>322733160 Mergo was stillborn . she died when Queen Yharnam gave birth to her. She exists in the dream though. So instead of saying he was born say Micolash made contact with him. Also Oedon isn't defeated by Mon presence what makes you think that
>>322733484 Well I meant the Pthumerians were found, less so than they existed, same with Queen Yharnam, being the Pthumerian Queen she was found in the depths after becoming pregnant.
Old Hunters really throws a wrench into a ton of Bloodborne's Lord/Timeline due to Yharnam and the Hunters seemingly existing during Kos, unless we're to either assume Moon Presence was found first by Gehrman, or Kos has been dead for a long time there, which wouldn't make much sense given the fact that the Hunters are what killed Kos and you walk in on the Orphan breaking his way out of the womb.
>>322731907 I think her body is too aquatic in form to not be originally from the sea. She's all squidy and fishy and stuff, not something she could make any real use of outside of the sea. This is entirely my opinion of course, but her body seems built for life in the water rather than in the sky or on land.
>>322733761 Yeah, that'd be a better way to go about Mergo then. I always personally saw the Moon Presence and Oedon as rivals if you will, oppositions to each other. With the Nightmare Halted, Oedon's Nightmare can seemingly no longer spread, only his blood and the beasts can spread, with Moon Presence having a control over Gehrman and the Hunters, they have full control over the events of Yharnam now that everyone seemingly major is dead, in that Moon Presence basically defeats Oedon if you will.
>>322733891 Well she could exist in Space, I mean we do get Space Whales in a lot of fiction. I agree it makes the most sense being from the sea, but I could see her being from Space/Cosmos as well, as opposed to land/sky.
The sea and the cosmos being the same also fits a lot of Old God/Lovecraft stuff too.
Its possible but strange that she would have remained pregnant not only for the centuries of time between Pthumerian's decline and the rise of men but also for the couple hundred years of byrgenwerth discovering the ruins, excavating them, & studying Odeon's dead child to then hear about Her off hand in the fishing village having had the child then. What seems more likely to me is that She had to do what Odeon had to do which was find a suitable inheritor of a bloodline because Odeon only succeeds with the descendants of the Pthumerians hence Arianna who was related to cainherst who were related to the Pthumerians.
>>322733295 >Objective complete: killed Mergo and her wet nurse. New objective : return to the hunters dream and interact with Gehrman to finish the hunt Optional: find the three umbilical cord Optional: confront Gehrman
>>322734615 Especially when you think a lot of the stuff in Bloodborne deals with vertical stuff, so whose to say up isn't down, with the sea being space, or space being the sea. Like how you walk through the clock tower in the Old Hunters and end up in the fishing hamlet.
>>322718628 I don't know why he went on about all that time stuff. Brador is an old man in the Nightmare sure, but that's a different plane of reality from the normal world. He could have died at any time in the real world, as an old man or young man, but might have continued to exist in the Nightmare.
>>322733814 No you can't, anyone who says they can are lying or working with bad information. Everybody who's big on interpreting the lore agrees the timeline is weird and makes basically no sense, the latest theory from the guy who wrote The Paleblood Hunt is about how Yharnam doesn't have a comprehensible timeline because it's basically a nightmare city of the damned.
>>322727439 >The religion seems similar at first, but as you learn more, it seems more cult-like, except that it is an organized religion. >it seems more cult-like, except that it is an organized religion.
>>322717593 Because you actually have to pay attention to the surroundings, weapons, enemies and the item description, they tell the story.
You can see loads of bodies just before the Oedon Chapel, which means that those people were on their way to seek shelter where the creepy guys tell you to save people.
You can see the areas where statues go from holding their hand up, to being covered, you have to wonder why is that.
You can see Gehrmans book which are titled "How to pick up fair maidens" which means he is a beta-spaghetti falling faggot who uses the doll to practice his pick up lines.
The answer to your question is that Bloodborne's story and lore is really easy to understand. You just need to be curious and question everything. But since this is inspired by Lovecraft, knowledge is dangerous
>>322717593 >Be honest, do you think Bloodborne is too subtle? Would you prefer if it was easier to interpret and understand? What you mean is if i prefer if Bloodborne wasnt written on a knee in a shitter on a coffee brake in one afternoon? I sure fucking do.
Im really tired of those lazy half assed incoherent game plots with half assed environmental expositions being called good. This is why i cant take this fandom seriously, same level of retards as Half Life 2 fans, another game written by someone after a stroke and Zelda time line retards.
since this is a bloodborne thread I recently got Bloodborne; When I write notes in my notebook, is there a limit to the ones that show up for other people? I can protect some of them so they stay on the list, but if I make more than the 10 or so that are on the list, do the others disappear forever? or do they still exist?
I thought Dark Souls lore was boring as fuck and I could never understand the people who got way into it but I like Bloodborne lore. The only thing that annoys me about it are all the people who think vermin exist and are the cause of the beast scourge and the people who think paleblood is anemic blood (lol) or great one/kin blood or something.
>>322727921 My interpretation from some of the item descriptions (Beast roar particularly) is that beasthood is just something latent within humanity and the power of the blood not only cures what ails you, but brings that out as well so the "plague" is just power that humans can't handle as lesser creatures.
>>322753767 I get the concept of what you're saying but i find it odd they choose for werewolves as beasts that live inside every human. Shouldn't it be some kind of ape or monkey monster instead since we evolve from them?
Do we know the origins of the Winter Lanterns and the Brain of Mensis, the Living String states that Mensis "recieved" the brain from the nightmare, but I haven't noticed any details on HOW it got to Mensis.
Are there any good lore rich/full playthroughs of Bloodborne, I finished my playthrough today and I want to watch something that shows what I missed and tells me about the lore in depth as I can watch.
>>322721439 That's all correct. Basically Lovecraft is fairly nihilist in the actual sense of the word. In that the universe will always present stuff that will change our idea of "truth" or said stuff is stuff we cannot simply grasp. Thus going mad.
>people were hyping up Mergo's Wet Nurse as a super hard boss when I was looking up how to get the true ending >get pretty hype when I'm about to fight her >mfw it was literally the easiest boss fight in the game
Gehrman is the adopted child of the Moon Presence.
All great ones are fated to lose their children and seek a surrogate child. This means adopting humans for the most part. The orphan and Gehrman probably aren't directly related, but just linked through that
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