inb4 "but the story is what counts". Turn based RPG = brain dead gameplay with ZERO video game skill. Now action RPG's on the other hand...
Gameplay is more in the planning than the actual fights, also just going to throw out the standard SMT, Grandia, and Shadow hearts posters that will disagree with you
You still have to plan out which attacks to use, and when, in order to win fights-at least you should in good RPG's.
They're at their best when battles feel like chess matches, always trying to outwit or outplay the AI.
Honestly, is it really that different from deciding which moves to use, and when, in ARPG's? I don't see how people can love One and be absolutely opposed to the other.
Honestly, most turn based RPGs are shit. But, the ones that actually require and reward tactics beyond "Spam attack", are really damn fun. I just wish more companies had/would make turn based combat more of a puzzle/strategy thing, than a formality.
>lumping in games like SMT with shit like Final Fantasy
Well he's talking about "turn based" games not only FFVII. Lost Odissey and Bravely Default are good examples of turn based JRPG that need strategy and planning or you will be fucked up.
>Now action RPG's on the other hand...
Stopped reading right there.
>Turn based RPG = brain dead gameplay with ZERO video game skill if you're over leveled.
Go ahead and do a low level ff7 run and tell me how you survived attacks that kill you in one shot.
>Turn based RPG = brain dead gameplay with ZERO video game skill
Fight me nerd, bet you won't last 6 turns.
>playing any game for the story
Literal retard tier
>posting nocturne as an example of skill-based combat
yeah, getting wiped without being able to take a turn because a team of 6 demons decided to ambush and assfuck you sure is some great gameplay
Press turn is the best thing to happen to turn based combat. It actually makes regular enemies potentially threatening and if you are prepped for the random battles in an area makes them not drag on and just feel like time wasters.
You should play the FFIV DS remake, that is the only FF with any degree of difficulty on the actual mainline quest.
Also Hunts in FFXII carried that game for me and thankfully you don't have to complete the entire game to get them - you're able to do boss fights way above your level that are very tough if done like that.
I'm already playing Shadow hearts and metal max, is it worth it to shit another game onto my plate
>Now action RPG's on the other hand...
...devolve into button mashing even more frequently.
Yeah, you can beat a lot of turn-based RPGs by just spamming auto-attacks. You can do the same thing with a lot of action RPGs. It's not a problem with either genre but a problem with poor game balance in general.
If you're incapable of grasping this, then you're in luck, because these games are perfect for you.
turn based combat is shit. requires zero skill and hurr hurr hurr look, I "LEVEL GRINDED" and nao I'm awesome. The Tales series is what RPG's should strive to be like, and not garbage like the Final Fantasy series
Well, you just need to make enemies do more damage to achieve the same result. My problem with Press Turn is that it removes a bit of strategy compared to normal turn based, since hitting the weakness is always obbjectively the best thing you can do, and that bosses with weaknesses become a joke. Also smaller parties.
Good action games require some level of skill of spacing and timing. Add in being able to use the level design to you (dis)advantage and you already have a game that's infinitely deeper than FFVII.
because you posted the most baby tier MY FIRST RPG to show about turn based.
and technically, its not even that. FF1 or FF 10 are TRUE turn based JRPG.
action RPG need curazy action and hard difficulty to make it REALLY skill based. its the only way i can acknowledge.
still love Lufia 2, why can't FF have this good of an ending dungeon music?
>the end of the post is where you stopped reading
It's not just about enemies hitting hard, it's a combination of both you and the enemies hitting hard enough/having little health to the point that regular battles pose a threat and are very fast and momentum based. And then using mostly your MP as a resource through a dungeon, say you are in an area with a ton of enemies weak to fire, you can use fire to make the battles easier and in your favor, but at the cost of using your MP as a resource which at times can easily become a problem with high encounter rate/low mp restore items.
And it's not just about abusing the system in your favor it's also about covering your own weaknesses so the enemy can't abuse the system against you. Crits being affected by this are mostly just a way of letting some random factor influence a battle a little more to keep you on your toes even if you feel safe. All it takes is an enemy ambush and a crit and things can really sway against you.
Also when is hitting an enemies weakness in any RPG ever not the right thing to do?
Try to fight blindly in a real SMT game, anon.
And no, I'm not talking about Matador.
One of the best final boss fights I had was in a SMT spin-off game, DDS2 was sick.
Action RPG is what is killing the gameplay, turning everything into a hack 'n slash for casual scums.
>It's not just about enemies hitting hard, it's a combination of both you and the enemies hitting hard enough/having little health to the point that regular battles pose a threat and are very fast and momentum based.
And it would be different if enemies just hit harder because? When you get extra turns you're basically just doing extra damage.
>And then using mostly your MP as a resource through a dungeon, say you are in an area with a ton of enemies weak to fire, you can use fire to make the battles easier and in your favor, but at the cost of using your MP as a resource which at times can easily become a problem with high encounter rate/low mp restore items.
>And it's not just about abusing the system in your favor it's also about covering your own weaknesses so the enemy can't abuse the system against you. Crits being affected by this are mostly just a way of letting some random factor influence a battle a little more to keep you on your toes even if you feel safe. All it takes is an enemy ambush and a crit and things can really sway against you.
These apply to pretty much every turn based RPG.
>Also when is hitting an enemies weakness in any RPG ever not the right thing to do?
When you need to heal or buff to survive the next attack or want to try giving the enemy an ailment. Press Turn just give you an extra turn for that if you can hit a weakness.
souls games have zero punishments for death, it isn't even an RPG more or less a glorfied version of Fable.
Making the enemies hit harder doesn't add anything to actual gameplay. All it does is you damage them, they damage you, you kill them battle ends you heal up between trash dungeon fights.
Press turn atleast rewards good play, you can kill all of them easily before they even get a turn so you don't have to heal up, or if you come across a new enemy it really forces you to experiment and find an optimal way of beating them before they murder you.
It makes it more interesting and rewards good decision making.
>Turn based games are brainless and require no skill
People that are into NTR and cuck can enjoy fire emblem and persona, since the latter did a crossover with the former.
No really, google it yourself. its like these NTR cuck fetish guys have been blending itself into nintendos hellhole of wannabe turn based for years on /V/
It's more like.
>Enemy hits your weakness, gets an extra turn
>Enemy kills you
>If he's a boss he now hits someone else or does anything else, or if it's dungeon trash his buddy now does whatever else.
Could be worse, could be that wannabe turn based game valkyrie chronicles. its like lois cuck game, people who "enjoy playing it" dont because its so cringeworthy. they just want to see another man trying to bang the mc's girl. I guess these sick fucks are not contained in /d/ anymore huh.
>since hitting the weakness is always obbjectively the best thing you can do
Like every RPG
>and that bosses with weaknesses become a joke
Early game bosses to ease you into the mechanic
>Also smaller parties.
Has nothing to do with the battle system. I mean nocturne was a 4 party member system, with enemies ranging from 1 to like 8,
Because they are made to be beaten. The only hope for a turn-based RPG to be good gameplay-wise is to actually require challenging decisionmaking and planning, but few turn-based wants to do that. Instead, they would rather hold your hand so you can read their bad story and allow you to grind past everything. Even in games where there is allegedly challenge, it usually devolves into knowing optimal strategies instead.
>Like every RPG
Already explained that
>Early game bosses to ease you into the mechanic
If the boss don't have a weakness you're not using half of the system. IV got criticized for having many bosses with weaknesses but that's the proper way to do Press Turn, if it's bad then the system itself has problems.
>Has nothing to do with the battle system. I mean nocturne was a 4 party member system, with enemies ranging from 1 to like 8
Previous SMT games had 6 slots for the active party, with Press Turn that means potentially 12 moves before the enemy can do anything.
Have you forgotten about passing your turn counting as a press turn?
I mean that alone makes the system usable at all times in a big element of strategy comes into play by having to determine the optimal order of agility in the party so you can pass turns to certain members.
Also like I said the party size is irrelevant, they just have to balance around if. And if that meant 12 possible turns before hand then they would either have to make a shit load of enemies, make skills that can trigger a press turn expensive, or lower your parties damage and force you to exploit the system to make it anywhere in the game. All viable options of balancing around it.
>tfw niggas don't know the struggle that is emerald and ruby weapon
Why the fuck does every dynaste warrior game have to be around the sengoku period. there are earlier periods of constant fighting. I mean you know the tokugawara clan won in the end and nobunaga lost. kenshin lost, takade lost, masamune lost.
because you normies bastards only play FF
go play other JRPG with far better gameplay than this shit
FF never had a battle system above medicore those game sells on graphics alone
>Now action RPG's on the other hand...
>Victory fanfare plays
I can strawman entire genres too, fool.
That said, screw giving attention to this bait thread, ESPECIALLY me.
You're a fucking faggot, dude.
from the description it sound promising but I didnt play it
actually FFXIII have the best FF battle system but everything else is shit
no FF managed to top grandia 1 battle system let alone 3
any SMT, both mana khemia 1 and 2 and atelier escha & logy (the only atelier that I played)
and many more other turn based JRPG
XIII and XIII-2 were shit as far as gameplay goes. Lightning Returns' schemata system is what the Paradigm system should have been to begin with.
I highly recommend Lightning Returns to anyone and everyone who is "on the fence" about whether or not they should play the XIII trilogy. If the story matters to you, just youtube XIII and XIII-2, but LR is a must play for the gameplay.
It's quite simple. Turn based games have to treat several very important things as an abstract, and anything related to those abstracts are also abstracted. The passage of time, the location of all actors and objects in motion, and the effects of the environment.
Many things that would be going on in a much more fluid battle have to be taken out of the equation. Turn based game combat is heavily simplified because to create a system of rules that could incorporate even a fraction of what you could do in a real time game would require a whole textbook of rules, a lot of special cases and even some wiggle room to skirt around the rules depending on many conditions.
Even the most typical action game will have more going on than the typical RPG since the action game is dealing with navigating the environment, positions of everyone and managing time to do things that aren't instantaneous in real time.
The typical RPG is like FF7 in OP's image. Position is reduced to a formation/rows if that. Time is reduced to a speed variable to determine order. All attacks, item usage, magic spells and other skills are one instant action that can't be interrupted then your turn is done.
Games like Dragon's Dogma in the real time side and games like Divinity Original Sin in the turn based (combat) side are the exceptions to the norm. The ones with more focus on details and nuance.
The vast majority on both sides however can be stupidly generalized to "press X to win" in their simplicity.
That's Samurai Warriors
Dynasty Warriors was ROTK era, in China
Roughly about a thousand years before the warring states Japan..
There's also Drakengard, Ninty-Nine Nights and others
Was just using dynasty warriors for example
I'm sorry your lack of attention span is effecting the quality of your life so much
Did someone have to jingle keys to keep you interested in your keyboard long enough to post such a long comment?
Getting technical just to ruin your day
>Play any action game
>damage is calculated behind scenes as number value
>every time boss attacks you defend via fleeing taking cover or countering
>boss usually has multiple phases/forms
You cannot escape taking turns even in action games
You're actually making me mad
>seriuosly implying that turn based games require any thought at all
I get bored in seconds so I turn it off and sell it. Turned based games are terrible. funny how a MOBA or a FPS/Action game can hold my attention but a turned based game cant. That means they're shit.
>can't organize anything worth shit
>almost every battle is a clusterfuck
>an excuse to throw more trash mobs at you than usual
>oh boy, I can't wait to cast ten buffs again
I couldn't stand the combat enough to finish BG2. I just get sick of it halfway through.
I think that means you have ADD, anon. How about 4X, grand strategy, or tactics games? You sound like the kind of fag that would ragequit that shit for it not being fast enough.
And? metal gear solid fans are mad that he showed what a horrible fucking gameplay the game had, layouts, stock characters, contradicing plots (no you cant make nuclear weapons undetectable by firing them from a fucking railgun, that made no fucking sense) anymore than the whole ghost boss fight or the fact that there are assault weapons you can use in a stealth game.
Or leeches going through heavy clothing, or controllers as bad as the aiming fps mechanics in a third person shooter game.
Or bosses who magicly could run fast and you have to beat them acording to these ways, even if you are infront of them.
Or worse, a girl beating a man, let alone an old woman.I think that was the most hilarious part.
Kojima learned something though, that in the 5 game the woman was already half naked and didnt speak and got beaten up like the cunt she is.
Lets not just get into information that "you are just suposed to know with no logical sense to them"
>video game skill
try some western RPGs for an exchange and skip all the weeb shit that's aimed for 6 year olds/manchildren
I didn't say a thing about MGS, Mr. Pancakes. We're talking about TBC vs ARPG and the central point remains, an absolute idiot defeated a 'difficult and skillful' ARPG, but couldn't even collect the gumption to attempt one of the most accessible FF RPGs.
Please re-enroll in night school and ask your instructor to give you extra special care when explaining reading comprehension.
Its not as insane as revengeance. People magicly have nanotechnology that cost billions, senator armstrong is not the fucking president either. he magicly has money to make himself that technology, but also other people cant for some reason.
Again, he also killed a senator.
Kojima cock suckers all around have no arguments but sure can whine.
Fuck even this boss here would make more sense than armstrongs magical nano technology.
What is dark souls 2, second dlc last boss on 7++
You can read up a guide on turn based, in this case, you have to practice and practice no matter if you are highest level or not because 2 hits and you are dead.
The only one making you mad is yourself, faggot. Getting triggered and crying on the internet because all you can play is cawa doody and league of flashes and dashes.
People like you are the reason ff7 is getting dumbed down. Cause you're simply too retarded and posess a low attention span. Not like ff7 was an amazing game.
You're complaining about realism in MGS of all series? And almost every stealth game has somewhat effective ways to to go guns blazing on easier difficulties. The controls are clunky, but nothing too hard to get used to.
A girl beating a man. let alone the main character.
You have to say you are sorry for tolerating that stuff. this isn't tumblr nor some pro feminists bullshit or SJW site anon.
You have no arguments or facts to counter the facts presented. so it seems metal gear solid are horrible. but if you got any argument against the points made feel free to do so. So far you havent.
Why would I argue with a ignorant moron on the internet? Who the fuck actually does that? Your points don't have any merit fuckwad.
I already pointed out that looking for hyper realism in a game like that is stupid. Start there and then think about your dumbass post.
Maybe Drakengard 2 but 1 and 3 gameplay can be summarised with tap square till an opportunity for a triangle finisher or mix it up with circle magic
Same as the musou series in that respect
Where Drakengard differs is the aerial missions, as well as story progression missions
Drakengard 2 on the other hand tried to add a level if strategy to the mix, with different characters having different proficiency against certain types of foes. (Poor Eris and getting shafted with JUST undead though...)
Again its thus different. thats why dynasty warriors and samurai warriors are like the madoka of the /V/ one of the worst mash mash button repetitive boring gameplaystyle ever done.
Now now its not as bad as madoka, thats was just the blunder of all anime. with bad animation, characters with no personality and no plot. it was just that they added more blood than usual to a magical girl anime.
toei animation made a good magical girl series with actual fighting cheography and action in it.
ATB can still be done well, as well
After FF7 but before FF8 came Parasite Eve
It was ATB based, with free range movement within the battle area, sure you stop moving when executing actual commands but I think most of the hate comes from waiting through enemy turns and not being able to do anything about it
FF12 had a mobile ATB system as well and thus time it could be used to your advantage.
Star Ocean is another good example of this
>how to spot a FFag that hasn't played a proper turn based game 101
FF is about it's nice cinematics and art, everything else is shit
Pick up a proper turn based game like EO, SMT, or even fucking BD. FF mainline games are nothing but steaming shit if you want a fun gameplay experience. The only time ATB was done almost correctly in a FF game was 12 where you weren't waiting 90% of the time
At least play a board game where humans still reign superior.
Here's your (You).
At what point?
If you wanted to absolutely everything yeah there was strategy and planning involved.
If you just wanted to play the game and try to finish it, there were still hurdles to get over.
A lot of the 'gameplay' was in the materia -> battle system which ended up with the player figuring out "hey, this double cut thing seems to work a fuck of a lot better than that deathblow thing"
Final fantasy was a game that was still being very heavily refined at that point, and it didn't get super, super intricate until about 10 (unless you're looking at SRPG's like tactics).
FF9 min level run was actually almost required to end up 'good' in the lategame, as stat-growth was determined by the items you had equipped.
Early game items could ruin your stats if you overleveled. End game items would push you into the realms of godhood if you got them while still being low level.
>XIII and XIII-2 were shit as far as gameplay goes.
No, not really. I dislike 13 immensely, but the gameplay is one place where I actually consider it decent (albiet a downgrade from 12).
It was above average in many regards, but not particularly exceptional. It did try to keep you on your feet and rapidly switching through things to achieve success (unless you were way ahead of the powercurve for your area).
The rest of the game(s) however was pretty damn bad. Especially in the case of 13. It was pretty and had very high production values, but it lacked substance.
I'm not sure if you're serious here, or if you're being facetious.
Logic would dictate that you're probably being facetious, but this is 4chan and you could be entirely serious, which would be depressing.
I really like turn based games. Played through DIV:OS last year and that offers great level of strategy to each fight. Can add great difficulty in some places too allowing control you couldn't otherwise get. Also don't mind Real time with pause. They can also offer a lot of depth and complexity.
I've got nothing against full real time action either, they all offer very different types of gameplay. It depends on the game, on the type of game you want to make.
FF7 was originally turn based or active time battle which is all part of its charm. Spent many hours just in the menus learning how to setup my party and materia to be effective. It has many different parts to its charm that game.
It's always FFVII used for these threads.
Yes, FFVII had a shitty combat system. But FFVII isn't the end all be all of turn based RPGs.
The Trails series and Grandia both had much better combat, especially Trails of Cold Steel. So much fun.
>>Yes, FFVII had a shitty combat system
FFVII had a great combat system, it was the job system with even more customization.
It's just the game was too ez, even FFIV, which had literally 0 customization was more challenging.
Never have I been more furious having a game character die than in this game. Not because muh Lavitz what a bro, but because spending hours mastering his meticulous combos and understanding the rhythm of the character GETS PISSED AWAY when that fucking crack addict Albert replaces him.
You must be made of one of the most dense materials know to man.
It's a FUCKING VIDEOGAME, FICTION. It doesn't have to conform to the parameters of reality, you absolut mongoloid.
Thanks for ruining the industry, why don't you go make an mlg montage on youtube, instead of spreading your cancer here?
It tries to be realistic and science yet it fails it. Anon if you try something, succeed. if not then you have no excuse. You are a bigot anon.
Thats why kojima got stressed out so much for a reason, because he finaly understood from the massive backlash of metal gear solid 5 and revengeance and mgs 3 that the science is bullshit.
>I CAN'T USE MY BRAIN IT NEEDS TO BE EXPLAINED TO ME WAHHHHH
This is you - you shouldn't need a guide if you're not retarded.
>lol turn based games don't need skill or strategy
>this one does
>ARTIFICIAL DIFFICULTY BULLSHIT GAME DESIGN
>It's just the game was too ez,
That's not the only problem with VII. I don't think it's possible to make VII as it stands a difficult game without reducing the game to one or two winning strategies because at no point did Square ever attempt to balance the game.