MGSV actually made me feel bad after completing it.
Playing MGS4 I wished there was more game and less cutscene but that entire ending sequence was powerful shit. It felt like a natural conclusion to the franchise. I still would rather pretend it is the real conclusion. It's the last non-handheld Metal Gear Solid game that got proper funding and actually was completed the way Kojima envisioned. That honor can't be taken away from it since he can't make MGS games anymore.
>>322702661 I put MGS4 way above MGSV. MGS4 has a lot of metacommentary from Kojima about his team, his depression, and the fans. MGSV has hardly anything, despite trying to shove the Moby Dick symbolism in everything
>>322702661 The opposite for me. I would have been more disappointed with v but mgs4 killed any interest I had left in the mgs storyline. I was just looking for some decent stealth gameplay and v for the most part delivered.
>>322711397 Loads of evidence comes from his blog at the time.
I forget what the link is.
But there are things like how the war between PMC and Militia represent Kojima's team and Konami, while Snake is on neither side and is focusing on his own objective.
My favorite one is the beginning of the Act 1 Briefing, where Campbell literally says "The Manhattan incident triggered a serious public backlash." The quote is not only talking about the Big Shell incident in the canon, but also the fans and their outrage over MGS2's ruse.
>>322702661 Aww another thread where babbies first political commentary went boom boom and now you're crying.
The series at its best was 9th grade pseudointellectual tripe. It never once had anything to say, never once provided a unique view. It never developed any characters and didn't even keep a coherent story arc across titles.
Face it, MGS was always a shit story. The gameplay and music made it work. If Kojima spent less time writing fart jokes and soda drinking monkeys he could have maybe given it more depth than a damp rag. But he didn't. 5 isn't a worse story than 1-4, he just didn't tell it with boring 6 hour cutscenes.
>>322713112 4 has by far the worst story of 1-5. It was slow marinated in a bath tub of homeless people's diarrhea. It's not surprising that the intellectually challenged lame ass try hard contrarian baby boy zilch faggots here try to elevate it beyond any of the others.
>>322712650 Not liking B&B background, cuck Raiden, hatin Naomi, Otacon scores and getting heartbroken again, foolish Akiba, I mean its just boring that everybody are too edgy and badass like mgs1 and 3.
I've always found it baffling how many people hold the opinion of "Fuck MGS4, Snake should have killed himself at the end" as if that wouldn't have totally undermined the message the game was building up to. Like, they just wanted another super depressing, tearjerker ending like MGS3 had without actually understanding why it was important for the earliest point of the series to end tragically for pointless reasons. MGS4 gave Snake the ending he deserved for being one of the only people in the series to actually understand the Boss' vision without twisting it to fit his own selfish logic and leaving his problems to the next generation. He earned the freedom to finally live the rest of his life, short as it was, on his own terms.
>>322704893 >It felt like a natural conclusion to the franchise. This is the exact reason Peace Walker and MGSV being mainline games left such a sour taste in my mouth. They had absolutely no reason to exist and they brought nothing new to the series timeline beside weird, pointless retcons for a story that was already totally concluded. MGS4 ends on a stinger that offers no sequel hooks at all and instead involved Snake kicking one of his most stubborn habits, for fuck's sake. Anything released after it should have just been "questionably canon spinoffs" like MGR.
>>322718402 And how would that be? The story would have been fine if Kojima could have been given enough time to polish everything up. He always found a way up until now, the series was supposed to end after 2 (maybe even 1) and even at the cost of retcon you would finish the game with the feeling of satisfaction.
>>322719930 I've never understood why Big Boss' support staff and other major characters he trusted turning out to be part of the founding members of the Patriots and key figures in the series is such a huge point of contention for people. Like, who the fuck else was it going to be? Some random government schmucks from the 60's we weren't going to see ever?
>>322719964 It's not. Like, the prequels are poorly shot, poorly written, boring, tonally inconsistent, and just generally shitty. But at least they don't spend literally hours sitting on a plane listening to exposition, at least Jar Jar Binks wasn't constantly shitting himself, at least they didn't have a half hour post credits sequence, at least Lucas didn't feel the need to add unnecessary and nonsensical explanations to previously supernatural elemen- Ok, forget that last one.
Yes, that would have been a million times less retarded. They should have remained an enigma, like in MGS2. What does them being mgs3 support staff add to the story other than try to reteoactively make throwaway side characters more relevant? Its like saying Mei Ling and Peter Stillman had formed a secret pact for an all powerful shadow organization. So fucking stupid. Why can't Zero just be the commander of Big Boss in 3? That was all his character needed to be.
>>322720935 People always bitch and whine that MGS4 explained the supernatural elements away with nanomachines and I always wonder if these people actually paid even a second's attention to the game. Vamp's healing was still a supernatural quirk, he just used nanomachines to pump it into overdrive. Ocelot had to replace his transplanted arm with a robot one specifically because Liquid was being too much of an unpredictable little shithead when he was possessing him for real. One of the bosses is literally just Psycho Mantis' ghost hiding inside a lady's head and going "I CAME BACK FUCKER LET ME CHECK YOUR SIXAXIS". MGS4 was full of goofy supernatural fuckery.
Ocelot replacing his arm but still being hypnotized into thinking he is Liquid is even shittier writing than being possessed by Liquid in the first place. Instead of rolling with it and giving us more Cam Clarke, they gave us more contrived nonsensical bullshit.
>>322719930 >>322720435 >>322721452 Sometimes I wonder if I was the only person who guessed that Big Boss's team was part of the Patriots before playing MGS4. Like, Portable Ops wasn't a very good game, but it laid down some pretty obvious hints involving Zero and friends and the Philosopher's Legacy.
>>322721518 >Vamp's healing was still a supernatural quirk, he just used nanomachines to pump it into overdrive
The problem isn't a lack of supernatural elements, I mostly included that in my last post as a bit of a joke, the problem is the story is bogged down with unnecessary details that make no fucking sense. Like why did vamp's ability to pin your shadow have to be explained as fucking long range hypnosis?
>>322722194 Not really. It has clunkier movement, clunky item/weapon switching, clunkier cover system, can't shoot radios, etc. The only problem with 4's gameplay is that you have so good locations to use it.
Holy fuck does /v/ just hate on everything? I thought this game was incredible when it came out. Of course I still do but I wasnt on /v/ at the time. I mean do you guys have any respect for history? Did you even enjoy the originals?
>>322724351 >They hated MGS4 for the cutscenes, V loses nearly all of them, people beg Kojima for them back, but its too late now. Perhaps if they weren't so vocal about it then maybe the trailers' story content for V would have made it into the game. Can't believe it either that those who said 4 had too many cutscenes suddenly went "I want it back" in reviews I've seen of V.
>>322724724 Nigga I enjoyed MGS4 but when you got save points INBETWEEN CUTSCENES then you got a problem. To me they fucked V with it not being Big Boss. I never played MG1 and MG2. I never really gave a fuck about them so having the final game be all about tying up ONE GOD DAMN LOOSE END. IT MAKES ME WANNA KNOW WHO WOULD DO THIS.
>>322721874 >>322722047 Basically this. Act 1 and 2 are fucking amazing. Just give me medium sized maps with big battles going on to snek around in. >Choose whether to help rebels fight the PMC or not. >Meeting up with guerrillas later they team up with you. It's the little things.
>>322725168 Nothing in MGS4 addresses MG1 and MG2. MGS4 addresses MGS3's Big Boss and the Fox crew; Zero, Paramedic, Sigint, Eva.
In fact I feel the MGS3 pandering is what brought the game down. The MGS2 stuff is saved for the last chapter, and in small bursts (Raiden calls, Rose cameo), same for the MGS1 stuff (Shadow Moses revisit in Act 4), meanwhile there's a dedicated chapter for Big Momma (Eva), Ocelot wants to form "Outer Haven" (copying Outer Heaven) from the first chapter already, and there's this obsession all over the game on "Big Boss" (his body, legacy, hopes and dreams, etc.).
>>322702661 I gotta agree with this. I didn't hate playing V, but it doesn't really have what I want from a Metal Gear. No insane story nor crazy boss fights. And, while V is good mechanically, after a while, you begin to notice how nothing the actual game is. The maps are empty, stealth is easy, you spend too much damn time on the helicopter, and everything feels like it had no real level design.
MGS4 had it's fair share of problems, and until V I thought ill of it, but at least it felt like a Metal Gear.
>>322725516 No, MGSV's general movement options were superior (and even then, they were full of lame modern casualizations and dropped classic mechanics for no reason). The gameplay itself was fucking awful, it was 60% "EXTRACT/KILL THOSE DUDES," 30% "SNEAK INTO THAT GENERIC OUTPOST," and 10% "other," and outside of a few story missions, the level design was just extremely boring. Outside of being able to quickly jump to a section you might want to replay, adding a samey mission structure to the game's layout was terrible in Peace Walker, and it only got worse in TPP.
>>322727096 Really wish Big Boss was left alone after MGS3. It was already perfect telling you how he became the legendary soldier everyone claimed to be and established his motives for forming Outer Heaven.
MGSV shouldn't have been open world. Or, it should have at least had more, smaller maps. The map in Ground Zeroes feels like a better size to me. All of the space in that map is used. It feels like it has actual level design.
>>322728695 For awhile I thought it was just gonna be multiple maps the size of GZ where you have one main mission and a few side ones. Man we didn't even get side missions as good as the ones in GZ either.
>>322728695 Having two giant, empty maps instead of several hubs was stupid. They should each not have been much larger than GZ and main and secondary objectives should have been available at the same time. Think SC Chaos Theory but bigger in size.
If they absolutely had to have open maps filled with fuck all they should have had more fun with it. Just look at Quiet, there's a bunch of cool things you could have done with an open world sniper boss battle but that didn't happen.
What this fuck did MGSV have to do with "race?" Some people speculate that it actually refers to arms race, and chapter 2 is about triggering the nuclear disarmament event, but fuck if that ever happens. Skullface won I guess. Skullface was lame.
>>322731430 >mgs4 was so bad because konami forced him >pw was so bad because it was on psp >v was so bad because blah blah im tired of making excuses he's gotten worse over time, i see no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt
>>322732009 probably because they'd get in the way and didn't really make much sense not that im defending it, in fact because of its sort of a ripped out feature with not much thought put into it, shit gets very weird and depressing when you do think about it. In fact a lot of things with the base become depressing when you examine what was shown and what we got Animals were originally there, giving the base a better sense of it being alive. Gets ripped out, base is boring as hell Zoo awkwardly shoehorned in, instantly built with a bit of story to cover it up and the entire forgotten in an instant Talking to important NPC was originally supposed to be there. Never fully implemented so people disappear behind corners, you just awkwardly stare at them, or they're in completely unreachable areas and invisible if you're not viewing them from uptop in your heli. FOB's originally never existed and it was your own MB being invaded. Tossed that idea out probably because people would get mad their best soldiers would die, instead you bizarrely create an exact replica of MB in another oceans
So many things changed right before it got shipped its not even funny
>>322735395 Yeah, he's not his flamboyant, crazy self at all. He only fires his revolver during a major cutscene like once, indoors. And sort of lazily half-spins it once. Did he take his medication or something?
>>322736346 Brainwashing man. Seriously though I'm pretty sure it's Ocelot neutering himself around Venom. As soon as he's not hypnotised he's riding horses into fire, talking about how much he hates the French and the patriots and threatening to murder Kaz. Blah blah you're only playing phantom BB so you get Phantom Ocelot. Fuck you Kojima I wanted BB and brocelot shenanigans.
I bought PS3 couple of years ago to finally play MGS4 and really liked it apart from the B&B bosses aswell as some other stuff. Had some laughs and shed some tears in the end. I thought it was fine. But MGSV? I don't know man. It left me with such an odd feeling after finishing it. Shame it was what it was, since it didn't feel like MGS game at all and being the last of the games it affected me how I think of the series as whole.
>>322738420 >MGS3 = RotJ. Good conclusion to the trilogy that left most fans happy. Dude 3 is anything but a conclusion. Conclusion would mean it would be connected to 1 and 2. But since it jumped all the way to the past and is a prequel, its the Phantom Menace of MGS.
>>322738903 MGS4 had its problems but it's still got those great moments like the final boss fight, and it wraps itself up completely. MGSV has nothing outstanding at all. I'll take the highs and lows of MGS4 over steadily the below average of MGSV.
4 is terrible because it's the most wheel-spinniest Metal Gear out of them all.
It's Metal Gear Solid for the sake of being Metal Gear Solid. It's fanservice, it's checking boxes. It's a follow up to a game that was never meant to have one. People can shit all they want on MGSV, but atleast that game had some balls to go fucking out there with the MGS formula. The game went out swinging, it went out provacative and polarizing, raising more questions than answering them, like MGS should.
MGS4 was just disappointing and hollow, it was exactly what people wanted out of Metal Gear, which is why it's so uninspired. MGSV is flawed and unfinished, but MGS4 will forever feel forced and soulless.
>>322738420 I cannot believe there was ever anyone who believed MGS3 served as a conclusion to the series, let alone a satisfying one. It almost entirely ignored every major question MGS2 brought up to tell a mostly self-contained story. Not to say it like that was a bad thing on MGS3's part, but MGS4 was absolutely a game that needed to exist to tie things up, even if Kojima was super butthurt about being too much of a perfectionist to let someone else direct it.
>>322738903 MGS4 may have had an absurdly skewed cutscene to gameplay ratio, but man, the gameplay itself was absolutely jammed packed full of goofy, fun easter egg bullshit most people never even noticed. Meanwhile, MGSV felt like they deliberately highlighted everything goofy and cool before the game even came out, and what was left over to find on your own was kind of lacking. I miss calling someone on the codec while doing something goofy just to see if they had unique dialogue for it most of all, the tapes just did not do it for me.
>>322728313 I was hyped up by the prospect of the game finally returning to some fun sneaking mechanics after a "follow/protect the target" act and a "mostly abandoned retrend of a classic location with robotic enemies you can't use 90% of the game's mechanics on" act. If only we actually were allowed to sneak through the ship -- it was fucking HUGE, it could've been the second coming of the Tanker at least.
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