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>decide to start using shulk because his...
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>decide to start using shulk because his monado arts look rad
>heard some shit about his frame data but I thought it couldn't be that bad, plus he got a few buffs
>enter a match
>the start up frames on his attacks are longer than the recovery frames of any non heavy character

good god who the fuck balances this shit? After eightish balance patches you think this'd be fixed a bit

now I see why every tourney player dropped him

smash thread I guess
Smash is a party game.
that's no excuse to throw balance out the window
Just spam n-air and always use your smash+grab to kill.you are right though he is and was overated as fuck at launch.He is not horrible just decent stay away from his long end lag attacks
nair is unsafe on shield and easy to shield grab due to little shield stun

>stay away from his long end lag attacks

so 80% of his moveset?
day 1 shulk main here. I won't claim to be an expert of the game, but I'd say I'm pretty decent.

approaching from the air is usually a bad idea. but using Monado Jump you can throw some crossups into the mix because of how fast you can move around in the air. if you try to approach with aerials, land them on the other side of the opponent. most people have shield grab programmed into their brains now, so a lot of people, especially FG shitters, will go DUH R+A I GOTCHU and whiff a grab while you stand up behind them.

you're probably not using bair enough. bair has a ridiculous range, and some strange hitboxes on the red part of the monado. it has decent kill power. if you crossup with it, you can often leave people DI-ing very poorly, killing very early.

don't forget monado buster increases not only damage, but SHIELD STUN.

gimp. gimp gimp gimp. shulk is a pro gimper. once again, monado jump gives you *insane* mobility offstage. learn your opponent's airdodge habits and bait it out.

learn how to space your moves and use the high endlag as a baiting tool.

if you're feeling adventurous, get the MALLC timings down and put up shield pressure that way.

back throw turns the opponent around, surprise them with a backslash once or twice.
Shulks not bad.

If you play customs use the improved monados.

>60 damage
>down throw
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You have to space with him. I'm not going to lie, he's terrible in all regards except his range. It's really, really hard to use him effectively.

It is almost impossible to out do projectile camping because the start up on your attacks are just too slow. It's incredibly hard to return to neutral because you can't retaliate quickly enough. You have to be on point all the time, and even if you are, you will still get your shit pushed it.

I have an 85% For Glory winrate with him, for what that's worth, but it has nothing to do with him being a good character, it has to do with me being better than For Glory scrubs. I've won two of the thirteen tournaments I've entered with him, and never placed lower than top 8. I'm not god at the game or anything, but I do pretty well with him because I sat down and stubbornly got good. There's no reason you can't do the same thing if you like the character as much as I do. If you care more about winning and want a similar character, I would suggest Ike or Cloud.
ya I fluctuate around 83% myself

it just feels like as the game is optimized his frame data just gets more and more taken advantage of

definitely agreed on the gimping, his fair and bair are really good gimp tools. problem is getting them offstage
For the most part, it seems like Smash 4's balance team has certain "roles" they want characters to have and they don't want them to leave this role. That's why you don't get any super significant balance changes.

The idea they had with Shulk seems like they wanted him to have tons of range but slow start up and high end lag to balance it. They probably don't want to go against that so Shulk just gets a ton of 1%/.5% damage increases on his moves for his "buffs". He got like 2 frames less landing lag on all his shit but that doesn't mean much, honestly. He'd be a lot more usable if there was L-canceling in this game, then he'd actually be able to space efficiently.
One trick I should mention that I've never seen another Shulk player do, you can really fuck up your opponent's flow and avoid damage ranges for 50/50s or kill confirms by switching into Smash or Shield. Sheik doesn't have a 50/50 against you if you do it properly. You're still at a severe disadvantage, but Sheik has a lot of problems killing without the 50/50. This works on a lot of Pikachu, ZSS and Diddy strings as well.

I think when Shulks start learning this, it will be able to even out certain match ups simply because the opponent will have much less experience in fighting against you if their regular bread and butters don't work. It's not a miracle cure or anything, but I've beaten some pretty good Sheiks and Luigis because their shit doesn't work the way they're accustomed to.
Also Smash 4's balance team feels like they have certain rules they abide by.

One of those seems to be not touching auto cancel frames. They've only changed auto cancel frames like two or three times iirc.

The first was in like, the 3DS days. They made Ike's fair auto cancel in a SH(even then, I don't think they actually changed his auto cancel, I think it had something to do with them speeding up the fair animation). The second was when they were tearing Diddy to shreds.

Seems like those only get touched in extreme cases.
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any kirby mains ITT

tfw u dair to dair to dair to dair etc to footstool
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>Tfw Kirby never gets nerfed, only buffed, and even then he was already good to begin with
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it's nice to have kill options for once

i wonder if he'll get something good in the bayo patch

like reduced lag on hit for down-b
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