>>283750050 I've seen it said multiple times in these threads that the game doesn't show you this unless you beat the game. I own Super Metroid and a SNES, but don't have it with me to confirm. Is this true? What if you leave it at the title screen to let it run through the demos multiple times?
>>283750375 I'm pretty sure it's confirmed that unless you have speedrunning tricks you DO need to break the tube to reach.. Draygon, I think? There are one-way doors that block your path from the other entrance.
>You can destroy perfectly fine walls in different ways >You see two versions of the same building, 1 fine and 1 destructed >You don't think about destructing it with the different tools available to you
It's also the only objectly that has 2 versions and they're clearly different (instead of something like fine wall and wall with little cracks)
Because destroying shit with missiles, super missiles, bombs, power bombs, regular shots, speed booster and screw attack is a core mechanic of the game that is also required to progress and complete the game.
The actual issue with the Maridia tube is that it's the only thing in the game that follows its own rules. Every other breakable part of the environment is made up of small blocks that you can morph ball bomb or scan with the x-ray visor to determine what type of ammo destroys it. The Maridia tube is broken with a small cutscene using an entirely different thought process that's never used again throughout the whole game. This is what makes it so confusing for some players, who are trying to get a reaction out of it the same way they would a rocky floor.
That said, they do hint at it and if you're not using power bombs as your go-to ammo for finding secrets by that point in the game you're an idiot. Samus' options are so limited that you have to stumble upon it eventually through sheer force, and the room is clearly important since the map says you can explore above and below it.
>>283751853 I didn't even need to see something else be destroyed. I'm not gonna lie i dont remember the game very well but i remember being stuck for a bit before power bombing the tube, but believe it or not figuring shit out using context clues, i.e. the cracks in the tube, used to be half the fun in video games.
>>283752519 so you're comparing metroid, a game where you interact and destroy the environment regularly to progress and find secrets, to call of duty, where the most you interact with the environment is pressing A to hop over a ledge?
>Intro video shows the tube getting blown up >There's another blown up tube before it >There's room above and under it on your map If you didn't figure this out, chances are high you're a Valve playtester or IGN reviewer and should thus kill yourself.
>>283749309 You mean Super Metroid in general? Then I'd agree. That tube was fine though. You see a broken tube elsewhere, you eventually get power bombs, it's logical. Going around bombing every tile for a secret passage isn't good design.
>>283752663 >playing super metroid on emulator >not too familiar with emulator keyboard controls so just kind of hit buttons until figure out shoot and jump >forget snes has 4 buttons >make it to noob bridge and fuck around for 15 minutes before submitting and googling it >find out the area im in is actually called noob bridge >feel like such a casual i quit playing
>>283750551 >>283749475 >>283749378 >play SM for the first time at age 22, 2 years ago >see platform above tube >bomb the shit out of the tube because that's the easiest way to find destructable blocks
>>283752663 The noob bridge is the very definition of GOOD game design: in a safe environment where failure has no lasting consequences, present the player with an obstacle he can not clear until he's mastered a gameplay element
If you seriously believe the noob bridge is shit game design, you're a shit game designer, and the reason QTEs and other mindless player-gratification moments are so prevalent today, not to mention hours of boring-ass unskippable tutorials and such.
>>283753237 >Only room in the immediate area with no stars that you can enter >Toad talks about paintings >Bright red stairs leading to nothing but the painting >Painting ripples as you press up against it
>>283752663 >If you didn't have a manual you were fucking hosed
I hope thou art jesting. It's in the options menu, and besides that, I'm baffled whenever people don't think to try all the buttons on the controller. Unless it's really one of the first games you've EVER played, I don't understand how people don't think "This sucks, what the hell, is there a run button or something?"
>>283753509 I wouldn't go so far as to call it a bad game, just imperfect. The gameplay is good, the controls are great, there are methods you can use to sequence break the hell out of the game, the aesthetics are pleasing.
>>283753589 Oh, I've beaten Super Metroid. Four times now. It's just a shame that sometimes I'm reduced to guessing how to advance.
YOU WANT SOME REAL, HONEST TO GOODNESS GRADE-A BULLSHIT!?
Brainlord for the SNES. Loved the game. Something you do a lot while you're dungeon crawling in it is finding specific keys for doors to progress, often involving some easy to moderate puzzles. Then you get to a room with three pressure switches on the floor, and a plaque that reads "The Key to this room is on the Control Pad". NATURALLY THAT MEANS WALK UP TO THE DOOR AND PRESS X. X BY THE WAY, DOES NOTHING ELSE IN THE GAME. IT HAS NO FUNCTION BEFORE OR AFTER THIS. THE INSTRUCTIONS STATE THAT X DOES NOTHING, NOT TO MENTION THE FOURTH WALL BREAKING NONSENSE OF MY CONTROLLER BEING THE KEY HE USES TO OPEN A DOOR. Door opens, pressure switches were red herrings, carry on.
>>283751020 >I've seen it said multiple times in these threads that the game doesn't show you this unless you beat the game. I own Super Metroid and a SNES, but don't have it with me to confirm. Is this true? What if you leave it at the title screen to let it run through the demos multiple times?
>>283753586 >Only room in the immediate area with no stars that you can enter You can go downstairs and there's a massive courtyard to run around. Everything is empty so it doesn't help. >Toad talks about paintings Completely missable, doesn't help that he's small and transparent, a good game design would make him talk to you instantly when you enter the castle. >Bright red stairs leading to nothing but the painting It's a couple of steps >Painting ripples as you press up against it Cool effect but easily missable. Normal people don't run into walls.
>>283754220 You can fight the minibosses in any order, you can get the items in almost any order, you can freely Zebes from the get-go. Super Metroid is actually a big step down from Metroid 1 when you think about it
All that to unlock Tourian and beat the game. It's linear, but the difference is that you're given enough room to breathe so that it feels like you have free control over the game's progression. This type of linearity, the ability to trick the player into thinking it isn't linear, is what can distinguish a good game from a bad game.
>>283754512 >You can go downstairs and there's a massive courtyard to run around. So? You still run into dead ends everywhere you go that you're bound to head back to the only star door that you can enter.
>Completely missable Sorry, I forgot you're a millenial kid that needs his hand held more than the average CoD game.
>It's a couple of steps You understand my point though, yes?
>Normal people don't run into walls. Normal people would probably search the entire room and walk up to the painting to see if you can interact with it.
>>283754312 and while I'm being a pissy old fuck, X-Men. Fucking X-Men. >get told you have to "reset the computer" >can't progress, completely fucking stuck >OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE TO TAP THE RESET BUTTON ON YOUR GENESIS! >THE THING THAT ANYONE WITH A BRAIN WITH ASSUME WOULD WIPE YOUR PROGRESS, ON TOP OF IT RIDICULOUS FOURTH WALL CRAP >and if you hold that reset button to long, it actually will wipe everything
Not going to lie, when I got stuck there at my cousin's house, none of us could figure it out, and we showed my aunt. She couldn't figure it out either and called that genesis hotline just to figure out what the hell we needed to do. I swear games were doing this shit just to make those scam toll lines relevant.
>>283755070 You need to prove that mia bought a glass lamp recently There's no way to prove it with the evidence you have Phoenix gives up and turns to maya and sees her as mia and faints Mia reveals that that piece of paper is a dated receipt for the glass lamp This is not noted in the item's description
tl;dr the game withholds vital information from you and creates an unsolvable puzzle
>>283755803 Dude, there's only so many times you can run around on one screen using every power, hitting everything, mashing every fucking button, replaying the game scouring every inch for the thing you clearly must have missed before this point before someone asks why you're so frustrated. I was 9 years old and willing to admit that the adult might understand this clue that was clearly flying over my head.
And yeah, fucking hotlines man. Shit like GameFAQS and just the ever growing prevalence of FAQs in general on the internet was a fucking god-send. You can argue it "casualizes" some people, but it help put a stop to that ugly toll for tips bullshit.
>>283761513 Don't forget to mention that a little bug crawls out from below the already-broken tube room. It shows the player there's an area down there, plus in keeps that focus on the room for a bit longer.
>>283754512 >wanting your fucking hand held >not holding your hand is bad game desing >these fucking movie fags actually believe this shit if you want your fucking hand held so bad go play that game where you put colored geometrical shapes in their corresponding fucking holes you god damn moron. if 10 year old me can figure this shit out and you couldn't your fucking stupid.
>>283749309 This would be a good puzzle in other games (like graphic adventures) but it is bad design in Super Metroid. The reason is because there isn't any other scenarios where you need to apply that kind of logic in the game, it's all finding secret passages, platforming, video game shit. If there were other puzzles like that strewn out throughout the whole game, this would've never been a problem for players.
>>283764362 >blocks disappear from the xray scope when they can be blown up as well What? The point is, the X-Ray Scope shows everything, blocks that can be broken and blocks that can be passed through. And according to the scope, the glass tube can't be interacted with. It's the only thing like it through the whole game. Only breakable blocks can be blown up, that is the case through the whole game.
>>283765243 Except they didn't show you, because the player isn't looking around for such things and taking note. It could've just been background decoration, like everything else in the game. This is a puzzle that belongs in Myst or La-Mulana, not Metroid.
>>283765782 Why exactly would they be paying attention to what's happening in the background? It hasn't been necessary for 99% of the game.
>>283765567 >Animals showing you how to jump are bad design too. And dont forget the doors. How am I supposed to know that I can shoot them? Girl-tier sarcasm aside, those are actually examples of great design.
So many times I'll be playing an older game and there will be a point where I have to make a decision to proceed. Half the time I pick wrong and I have to restart the level, half he time it was what I wad supposed to do. Either way there was no way I could have known this beforehand. Thank god for save states.
>>283767085 Other than in maybe a couple sadistic adventure games, I can't think of any cases in old games where you have to make a 50/50 blind guess that forces you to restart the level if you're wrong.
iirc, in deus ex if you kill all the MiBs in the apartment and leave out the window, the game will consider you-know-who has dead. you have to exit out the front doors for him to be counted as alive. it's dumb, it doesn't matter if he actually dies or not.
>>283754312 wait though, wait. That's really awesome. That's meta and the whole game not using X lead up to that point, so while it did frustrate you, it's a fucking excellent riddle. That and jamming buttons is generally a SNES era last resort that sort of happened commonly.
>>283767393 its not a clear cut choice, like asking heads or tails. Its subtle stuff like "hmm will this enemy I've never ever encountered one-shot me?" "is that ledge part of background or not?" and shit like hidden percentages and stuff.
>>283753237 I didn't >First time playing >Walked around for a little while >Quit playing for the day because I was stuck >Later on I watched my brother play >Mfw he jumps into the painting and the level starts Why was I such a stupid child
>>283753237 This is going to blow everyone's mind, but back in 1996 they used to include small books that contained instructions. These "instructive pamphlets" informed you on how to do things like plug in the controller, preform basic movement, and what kind of enemies are in the game. But they also contained secrets. Things the average person may never know. You didn't HAVE to read these tomes, but if you were stuck in a game or if wanted to know who made the game. The leaflet was there to inform you.
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