Do you guys think Smash 4U will ever take off for tourneyfags?

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Its fun to play with friends for a few hours but gets boring super fast. It's just a fixed brawl, and I dont like the concept of defensive game play always wining.

>>277496559
I remember watching that shit live. The hype was fucking real.

>>277496812
Same, what a magical moment.

The Smash 4 tournaments I've been to in real life haven't been as exciting as the Melee, PM, or even Brawl tournaments I've been to. Right now I just want to wait for Mewtwo's release to see how the metagame has developed.

>>277496812
it was the best thing at a kinda boring evo over all

Who cares. Tourney fags are annoying whiny cunts.

>>277497774
See also: Anti-tourneyfags.

No because the best option in any situation is to play as campy as possible

and that isn't fun to play or to watch

>>277497895

Wobbling is fucking gay, and anyone that abuses it is a faggot in my book.

>>277497895
I would have done the same thing. I am not a fan of wobbling.

>>277496112
It'll die out as soon as the next Smash comes out just like Brawl because it's just lacking too much to be competitive and has the problem of being super defensive and boring just like Brawl.

>>277497935
Yeah both sides are horrid. But you know what's worse?
The apologists for both sides.

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>>277498043
>>277498074
Just dont get grabbed, ice climbers have one of the worst grabs in the game and nana has worse AI than a lvl 1 bot you can kill her super easy with most characters

>>277498043
What the hell is that?

>>277497935
I hate people who like more gameplay in the game

>>277498152

>tfw anti-tourney and tourneyfags are an idea that has ever only existed in /v/ shitposting threads

the only difference is that anti-tourneyfags are real and actually believe the people they whine about are anything other than completely nonexistent or an extreme minority so far removed from the actual competitive scene it doesnt matter

>>277497895
post more smash videos

>>277498290
I know how to avoid it and what to do, it's just such a dumb way to take a stock.

Really boring

>>277498318
Ice climbers can do an infinite chain grab, its a 1 hit K.O. move similar to rest

>>277498318
Look at the webm. It's when the Ice Climbers pretty much infinitely grab chaingrab you, and you can't escape it until they throw you, and they'll typically combo it into a smash attack from the other ice climber.

It's really hard to do though, so barely anybody does it.

>>277498290

>just dont get hit by 1 move that locks you into an extremely low risk unavoidable wobble chain once in it

okay boss, sounds like a fair mechanic

>>277498395
Suuuuuure of COURSE they aren't anon, and I'm the pumpkin patch pixie of yugpahtah nine

>>277498395
I've seen tourneyfags being mentioned in Halo threads when people discuss battle rifle starts vs normal weapon n starts.

"tourneyfag" really isn't a word though, but anti-competitive people who spout it do exist for some retarded reason.

>>277498486

No one does it because it's fucking banned at 99% of tournies.

>>277498593

Have you ever been to a tournament? It's like 50% really hyped up black people and autists who stand around talking to no one.

>>277498423
Not gonna disagree with you there and I understand the hate it gets but if it was as OP as every one thinks they wouldent be 8th
>>277498519
stop dash attacking shields, you sound like this sheik I wobbled 4 stock a few weeks ago

Brawl tournaments existed, sorta still exist in some communities.
It had much more problems at a fundamental level than Smash 4.
This will be my only post in this thread, because it will probably have lots of shitposting and I don't see the point in staying around for pointless shit.

People will try it out for a few more months. Some will keep at it, but others won't. It'll be more respected than Brawl was, but will still be seen as insufficient and anti-competitive to many.

The game isn't bad, not nearly as bad as Brawl.
It's really fun and really excels as a casual game. As a competitive game, however, it is lacking. Love it or hate it, Melee has infinitely deeper mechanics and is more suited for competitive play. I think 4 is more fun with friends but it has absolutely no chance for a serious competitive scene.

>>277498709
its not banned at many tournaments tho. the last big one was big house 4

>>277497054
>not Galileo vs Dogura Blazblue finals
I admit that Pikachu 4stock was fucking nuts, but that comeback was so fucking real in Blazblue. Nigga shed tears he fought so hard to win. Blazblue may be GG-lite and may be generally pretty dull, but it had the best fights during Evo 2014.

>same high skill ceiling as other fighters
>high skill floor unlike other fighters held down by input barrier and artificial difficulty

Is there a better competitive fighting game than smash?

If Brawl could have a scene for 5 years then I don't see why Smash 4 won't. It's definitely not going to top Melee's popularity though.

>>277496112
A-A-AIR COMBO

>Captcha: Peems
I don't know why but that made me smile

>>277498816
The problem is ALL of the Smash games are good casually. Sm4sh doesn't even do casual play the best either.

Smash 4 is probably #3 on the list of best casual smash games, with melee being 1 and 64 being 2.

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>>277496812
>That feel when silent wolf is from your region and you wanted him to put washington and oregon back on the map

>>277498709
>No one does it because it's fucking banned at 99% of tournies.
Only at Juggleguy tournaments and everyone mocks him for doing it

>>277498752

>dont ever get grabbed, not once, ever, any game
>wobblan apologist
>plays icies
>wobbles

gee how surprising that you wouldnt think its OP broken garbage

you do realize that its banned for a reason at pretty much all tournaments that matter, right?

>>277498861
I was talking mainly about melee but that was so fucking sick, and he did with the ps2 controller, I dont even play blaze blue and that match was fucking sick

>>277498870
>input barrier
I hate it when you people try to imply that inputs in 2d fighters are hard.
And yes, Virtua Fighter 5 exists

>>277498519
Its not fair.

Hell,no one says its fair. It's fucked up beyond repair.

It's your job to win anyway. So just get good.

>>277496112
it's alright, but i prefer soul calibur is superior in terms of competitive play

>>277499009
>best casual smash game
>not even a stage builder for random funny shit

Autism is so, so off-base with what true casual play is.

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I have no problem with Melee,Project M, or Smash 4.
But god damn, i'm so used to playing smash 4 and brawl i just cant go back to melee.

I picked fox for old time's sake and i immediately side+b'd off the stage. Also i just simply cant keep up with the good players at my school, when they use all their fancy tactics and combos. and link just seems to be garbage in melee too, so i clearly just dont know how to use him as good as i do in project M and Sm4sh.

Personally i prefer, Project M over Melee. Not too fast, not too slow. And it helps that the boomerang doesnt stop me when im trying to do cool shit with it. Atleast with Project M and Smash 4, i can keep up with the better players.
you know, until they break my relentless assault tatic.

>>277499069
You have four stock. The character is balanced around its ability to be able to take on stock per grab. His grab itself is really bad, low range, low startup, and its only possible if nana is close enough to perform the infinite.

Fox can do much worse yet no one complains

>>277499246
I don't care about competitive. I just want a new game already. SC 6 when, Namco?

>>277499009
Are you seriously that out of touch with casuals? Melee is utterly barebones in SP features compared to the sequels.

>>277499009

I dunno. I think 64 would be #4 casually just because it has the least amount of characters and stages to play around with. Plus, Classic Mode is the same thing every time. Competitively it fares much better because those things aren't as important.

>>277496112
I just want more hitstun and momentum.
That's all the game needs in my opinion.

That "combo" was pretty cool though, even if it abuses a mechanic I never liked personally

>>277496112

The realistic answer is it will have to, as I seriously doubt Nintendo will let Melee go to Evo (at least in official capacity) anymore now that the WiiU version is out.

Will the Brawl scene die now? Was it ever that strong?

>>277499457
Implying every thread of it smash 4 of how big of a letdown the game was.
I still play melee m8 I don't get bored of my games in a month

>>277499345
Wow, someone on /v/ that can actually appreciate multiple smash games/mods

>>277499586
And less knockback on everything

The main reason i liked melee was because of how i could do a follow up attack with anything
Creating my own combos as i go ect.

Semi-tourney fag reporting in.

Had a lot of fun with sm4sh for a month of FG and playing with friends but kind of bored already. I could play melee/PM for months on end and not get bored so really means something.


No wavedashing isn't sm4sh's problem, defensive game is too strong, lack of movement options, momentum not carrying forward, lack of advanced techs.

It really is brawl 2.0. It's not a bad game, it's just a bad competative game

>>277499457
>SP

Not that anon,, but I think he's talking about playing with friends. Let's not mess around, we all know Melee had the best physics and fastest gameplay overall, even with the use of AT.

>>277499827
*without

>>277499647
Aside from some events here and there and some small local shit brawl was pretty much dead long before Smash 4 came around.

i enjoy the game for what it is but generally speaking its the worst one out the entire series.

The best thing it did for the series was that it was so broken you could crash the game and load mods in the stage builder.

>>277499647
It was never really that strong. The Brawl scene didn't really have many brawl exclusive players. It was mostly made up of losers from Melee + M2K looking to get some extra prize money on the side. All the best Brawl players were melee players that couldn't cut it and M2K because he played for the money. I only ever watched brawl finals because brawl was awful and even the finals were terrible. 8 minute long 3 stock matches of 2 metaknights standing on either side of the stage waiting for the other to approach. It was miserable.

>>277499457
all of my friends and family got bored of smash 4 in about a month.
The stage builder stuff lacks atmosphere and just feels bland to play on, we hate pretty much all of the new items, and my friends who have played since 64 complain about a lot of missing things that made the games feel good to play.

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>>277499069
its not banned at many tournaments tho, and not getting grabbed inst hard, sure its a shitty gimmic but most top teirs have some form of shitty gimmics that make them good, fox and falco have 1 frame imput combo makeres, sheik has chain grabs on 90% of the cast and free follow up on most of her moves. Marth kills early with tippers and guess what, he has chain grabs on the top 2 characters, peach has float cancling allowing her to do moves almost lagless from air into the ground, and an rng way to get a free stock as well as chain grabs on fox, falco and falcon,. Jigs has an insane neutral game witha 1 hit ko move that things can combo into. falcon is 1 hit to death combo with knee killing at 40% most of the time, and ice climbers has kill off grab if both nana is alive and close enough to start down tilting

>>277499702
The only letdown is the lack of features for me. The game would be 10/10 if it had a few things
>custom move shop
>Player lobbies
>custom for glory
It doesn't help that you can't even check messages live or send random messages with the Wii U, crippling the online experience

>>277500124
All of those things can be done on netplay

>>277499069
>you do realize that its banned for a reason at pretty much all tournaments that matter, right?
Wasn't banned at BEAST, RoM, Apex, SKTAR, EVO, CEO, MLG, Kings of Cali, Zenith... Hell, literally the only major tournament it IS banned in is Big House and everyone gives the TO shit about it. Yeah it's lame and nobody likes being subjected to the only 100% inesapable 0 to death in the game any more than the Ice Climbers mains like that most of the stylish, impressive punishes their characters are capable of are made obsolete by it, but wobbling isn't a broken technique by any means. They have a terrible grab range and speed, it requires Nana's finicky AI to be in close range and not in the middle of something else, and even with wobbling Icies aren't even close to being a broken character.

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>>277499990
This is wrong.
There were plenty of players who started their Smash career in Brawl. Nairo and Salem are 2 I know were prominent in the Brawl community. Most of the Melee community went back or moved on to PM.

>>277500213
Only with friends. There is no option to make open lobbies with custom rules like nearly every other fighter and even Mario kart 8

>>277499490
>>277499490
>64
>4th

Nigger that's the best of them all fucking faggot, without it you wouldn't have your "hurr durr muhh melee", get fucked, nigger.

>>277499345
>Atleast with Project M and Smash 4, i can keep up with the better players.
But Project M uses the same mechanics and physics as Melee unless the 1 frame delay really makes a huge difference for you.

>>277500476
just like the first two pokemon games were the best amirite

>>277500013
You make it sound much easier than it really is, "not getting grabbed" isn't just something you can do. Smash is way too dynamic to "not get grabbed "

You aren't allowed to play Nintendo games in tournaments or else you'll get fined for copyright infringement. So no. Never.

>>277496112
>inb4 muh momentum, and wavedashing

lel you're saying lack of jump momentum isn't a valid complaint?

Aside from feeling unnatural as fuck for a game like Smash it pretty much kills everything that made characters like Falcon fun

>>277500512
Melee has the most stuff controls in the series

Maybe. They got rid of the old vectoring, so I'd imagine that it could be somewhat more competitive. Maybe a patch or two. If we complain hard enough, that is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NRQHu23TU8

>>277499990
>It was never really that strong
Not necessarily, it was larger than Melee up until early 2013 maybe and never really died until earlier this year. Brawl died from a combination of Melee and later PM becoming insanely popular, the degenerate meta finally taking a toll on people's patience, and being replaced with a game that basically the same thing but with the most overtly retarded aspects removed. That said, it's pretty hilarious just how dead the game is now, it has less entrants than fucking 64 at Apex next year.

>>277499069


No one's fucking banned wobbling since like 2009. What planet do you live on? Wobbling is the only thing that prevents ICs from being absolute garbage, and they're not even top tier with it.

You wanna beat ICs? Learn Ganon or one of their other counters. They're a one trick pony with a really good trick.

>>277496812
I didn't find it that impressive. AXE clearly wasn't going against a good player.

>>277497895
Westballz is a tremendous faggot

I relish watching him get rekt on stream

>>277500839
If you mean stiff, it's only stiff if you don't know how to move. Melee has the sharpest and most responsive controls in the serious, and even Sakurai boasts about it. If you don't have the dexterity to move around well though, it'll feel stiff for you.

>>277499345
Project M is the same speed as Melee though

>>277500839
The only thing "stiff" about Melee's controls are that dashing is slightly less responsive than it could be, other than that no other game in the series offers the degree of precision and control Melee does.

>>277499647
It's been dead at least since PM got popular, and on life support even before that.
I dunno if it was ever that strong though. I think at first it was but then it quieted down somewhat fast

>>277499069
You're literally retarded

Shiek's dthrow is more broken

>>277500684

It takes a lot more than a grab to set up wobbling. You've got to have Nana in the right position with a tilt already queued up. If you're putting any pressure on Nana at all, it's impossible to get wobbled.

>>277501150
You do understand that precision is not antithetical to "stiffness", don't you?

>>277500573
Oh, I'm sorry, they weren't?
>hurr durr firered is betta

You must be fun at parties.

>>277501139
Project M needs work still. I play PM, but I feel like the physics in it still aren't on par with Melee's yet and have yet to see a match as fast as a high level Melee one. Hopefully 4.0 makes it more solid.

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>>277501104
>that one set where he tried to act like M2K and pull out a DK on a no name Falco player and gets his shit smacked, even when going back to Falco

>>277500948
I remember Melee being pretty active in 2012 though. That could just be because I live in a region with a super active scene for Melee though.

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I like to main Ganondorf

>>277501005
>Silent Wolf
>top 15 player, made top 8 for a 970 man tournament
>one of the most technical players in the world
>not good
Granted he has a knack for making his way into combo videos on the receiving end but it's retarded to say he's not a good player.

>>277501353
That's because P:M's meta game is more combo heavy than Melee's. Just appreciate it for what it is

>>277501283
But to someone like Wobbles or Nintendude they have that committed to muscle memory, know the setups and how to trap you

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>>277498290
Telling you not to get grabbed against a ice climber player is one of the most childish arguments that one could make. Not gonna say you're not wrong, but when their game is based around making a grab happen it's going to happen. Even mango has been wobbled many times. When a players style is based around the setup, they'll fuck the gameplay around making that grab. There's nothing legitimate about it, and its execution isn't hard either after the initial setup, which only requires them to be synched.

Fly amanita and wobbles himself are really the only legit climbers in my eyes because they dont need wobbling. I respect them because they move the char itself forward, not a gimmicky infinite with almost no execution barrier aside bump bump hump bump bump....throw...fsmash/dsmash.

Sincerely, a smasher who has to deal with no talent wobblescrubs at every fucking tournament I go to. I've developed a peach out of neccessity for their faggotry simply because I'm tired of having to play melee like its brawl to not get grabbed.

>>277501382
Brawl was bigger than Melee in 2012, the last major tournament to have more entrants for Brawl than Melee was Apex 2013 and that was by a margin of 2 players.

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What irks me the most about Smash 4 is what they did to this faggot

He was probably the only character in Brawl with interesting movement/combos and they decide to nerf him instead of making the rest of the cast equally fun and viable.

>>277501559
That's one of the things. It feels like there's too much hitstun on many moves, and it's especially noticeable on Ganondorf.

>>277500013
This webm is a sight for sore eyes since I've been playing 4 all day. Cant wait to go back to playing Melee soon. 4 is fun but for competetive play Melee is superior

>>277496112
By the way is that actual thing that mac has on kong or is donkey kong just madly mashing up b in between hits.

Is this a trick to make me think there is cool shit in the game?

>>277501475
obligatory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNdgSay_yM0&index=42&list=PLgYzF9AFPIkpKIkZoKEdh9QO1VVx4yk4z

>>277501674
What do you expect from modern Nintendo anon?...they'd rather fucking foam pad everything for retards.

>>277501727
it's just footstooling > nair.

>>277499647

Smash 4 and P:M have completely and utterly killed brawl, casually or competitively it offers next to nothing special aside from SSE, which who hasn't suffered through samurai's wet dream kirby adventure by now. >>277499702

>>277498395
That's nice but don't try to rewrite history okay, we used to make fun of Smashboards constantly years ago.

>>277501353
>but I feel like the physics in it still aren't on par with Melee's yet and have yet to see a match as fast as a high level Melee one
I feel that's mostly because there are a lot more midweight and floaty characters with weaker punish games being used in PM compared to Melee, Fox vs. Falco would probably be just as fast in PM as it is in Melee.

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>>277501475

>>277498769
exactly.

Smash4 is still a defensive orientated game, but it also has a lot more offensive options than Brawl did, and at the end of the day depending on the players it can still be entertaining (compared to brawl where even the best players were still subject to 10 minute shieldoffs just to get one move in for 5% damage)

It has the potential, and now that meleefags are coming around to it because of perfect pivoting (because according to them the game was literally unplayable without some broken mechanic to abuse) we'll probably see more tourney presence and it'll probably take longer to fade away than brawl did.

It's a nice medium between Melee and Brawl, and as long as the meleefags don't get too autistic about it, it can definitely find it's own place.

>>277496112

muh momentum

muh wavedashing

also dashdancing and combos and recoveries

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>>277499647
It's at Apex, for some reason. I get that they want to have 4 Smash games and they dropped PM for some reason, but no one is going to fucking play Brawl. I'm pretty sure I heard someone say it currently has less entrants than 64, he could have been joking, though.

The Brawl players and some PM players are going to play Smash 4 and the Melee players will of course play Melee, Brawl doesn't really seem to have a scene.

>>277501567
Said players have also placed very highly in tournaments where wobbling is banned (ie Nintendude at Big House) or have chosen not to use wobbling (Wobbles at basically anything he's attended in the past year), so clearly the technique isn't broken in it of itself.

>>277501764
I know it's unwise to get my hopes up, but it's just such blatantly stupid design and every review I've read of 4 overlooks it.

>this character was overpowered in the last game
>better remove everything that made him special instead spending more time balancing!

>>277501674
But the system in smash 4 allows for more combos than Melee. He's pretty much unchanged

>>277502116
Fly has been ranked 1 in SoCal for a while but only recently started wobbling

>>277502062
Lucina is cute, cute, cute!!!

>>277502116
Nintendude is talented well beyond wobbling, I've played with him for years in 64 before he got good in Melee. He's a very smart player.

>>277501992
nice buzzwords dude

>>277502062
They dropped PM because Nintendo is sponsoring the event.

>>277501674
I agree with your sentiment somewhat but I think buffing everyone to S-tier status can be problematic as well, see Project M 3.02

>>277501353

watch Melee players playing PM instead of Brawl players

for example Medz vs Axe or Chillin vs Cyrain. shits fast

>>277502216
>But the system in smash 4 allows for more combos than Melee
Fucking what
>He's pretty much unchanged
You clearly have no idea what he was capable of in Brawl.

>>277502031
Dash dancing is still in, you just have to git gud. Combos are back too.

And if you're still asspained about wavedashing, check into perfect pivot.

>>277496112
Not likely. Particle effect that happens when you land a smash attack is an immediate signifier that someone is about to die, even on the Omega stages.

Temple is literally the only level with decent blast zones that the particle effect does not immediately signify a kill... but then it suffers from having the pit at the bottom of the stage where everything gets stuck in.

>>277498486
>it's really hard to do

if you don't know how to play melee past a casual level, sure. But like most of the other chain grabs it's piss easy to pull off if you know what you're doing

And iirc the only notable place it's been banned has been Big House. It's still legal everywhere else but if you pull it out without it being a last resort you're pretty much showing how much of a faggot you really are.

>>277496112
Nope

>>277502062
https://twitter.com/Fliggenkrunker/status/547982780131717120

>>277502309
>muh buzzwords

come back when you have an argument kid

>>277502342
Only ones I've seen since 3.5 are Chillin playing Wolf and Hbox winning that tourney as Jiggs, and his gameplay with wolf is just shine -> down-air, with side-b sometimes. Hbox was prett legit though.

I would like to see Mango try playing Project M 3.5 as Fox or Falco on one of the classic Melee stages against another popular Melee player who picked a high-tier, and then hear their opinions on it. I want to know if they say it feels exactly like they were in Melee, or if there was something missing or off (aside form nerfs between Melee and PM).

>>277502424
>Dash dancing is still in
No, it isn't.
>Combos are back too.
They really aren't.
>if you're still asspained about wavedashing, check into perfect pivot.
PP is absolutely nothing like wavedashing.

>>277501992
You were going good until the last part, but nice try. I don't listen to casuals.

>>277502424
That spazzy quick DD is fucking useless because you can hardly move with it.

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Problem I have with Smash 4 right now (in For Glory) is that defensive play is champion.

I play Marth in FG 1v1, so I can't be campy, I have to be in their face all the time. But it sucks fucking SHIT when faggots roll around and play the clock so they can use a range move and try to win. This is NOT fun to play. Fucking come at me and make me outsmart you.
It's no fun chasing a Duck Hunt/Sonic/Robin/Link/DeDeDe around the fucking stage.
Shit like this is disgusting. The best matches I've had are people who are offensive and constantly applying pressure.

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>>277502249
Indeed she is, anon.

>>277502318
Ah, didn't know that for sure. I figured that probably was the reason,though.

>>277502578
So it fucking does have less entrants than 64, jesus christ.

>>277496812
Link?

>>277502062
PM was dropped because Nintendo finally saw the light for competitive events, and they didn't want any potential legal ramifications for showcasing a hacked version of a nintendo game with them "in the room" so to speak.

and of course the aftermath is nothing more than a testament to how autistic melee/PM fans can really get.

I know for a fact that the only people who play melee are autistic teens with an unfounded superiority complex and filthy jungle animals too poor to afford an actual fighting game.

Prove me wrong

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>>277502578
>64 has more entrants than brawl

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>>277502424
>Dash dancing is still in, you just have to git gud

no. dash dancing is not in. if you think Smash 4's "dash dancing" is useful in the same way that Melee's is, then you're horrible at both games

>Combos are back too

Smash 4 combos are all boring gayass shit like Sheik chaining utilts and fairs, or Diddy's throw -> uair bullshit. there's nothing anywhere near the level of Melee's

Granted, some people prefer the lack of combos (I certainly prefer Melee's style) but if you think Melee combos are back you're delusional or ignorant or both

webm related

>>277502418
Whoops, I meant Brawl.
>you clearly have no idea what he's capable of
Getting a lead then gliding under the stage for the remainder of the match?

>>277502618
You don't even have a point to argue with, and from seeing you spout meleefag and autism, you're obviously not worth the attempt at one either.

Reading through any Smash thread or getting half decent at Melee or Project M to know the differences between them and Smash 4 past "muh defensive meta," should help you out though.

>>277496112
Who cares?

>>277502674
This anon understands

2 hit combos are more or less the best you can hope for which is boring as fuck, after that it is just reading your opponent/strings.

PP is fucking retarded shit, 1 frame to pull off, so fucking unreliable and small practical use compared to wavedashing

>>277496112
I think it has potential. I've been watching a lot of the clash tournaments videos and there is some really high paced action in there. The game does have a fair amount of shielding and rolling, but it doesn't slow the game down to the point of boredom. Stocks last ~1 minute from what I've seen and the new ledge mechanics are partially at fault for extending lives. If people still don't want to move on from melee that's fine. However, it seems a bit much at this point. I think people would happily watch smash 4. It's improved from brawl and it looks gorgeous in action. The wide variety of characters that are actually viable for competitive play also adds to the possible viewer interest.

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Is okay to ask for some Dong webms here?

I don't care which ones you have, I need some dong webms

>>277501591
faggot

>>277502424
>Dash dancing is still in
In a completed neutered and essentially useless form.
>Combos are back too.
I honestly prefer Brawl's followup system of purely frame traps and reads over Smash 4's braindead and boring "combo" system consisting entirely of throws>one aerial or repeatedly using stale moves with weak upwards knockback.
>And if you're still asspained about wavedashing, check into perfect pivot.
Perfect pivoting is a technique that's been in every Smash game since the original and has been situational or completely outclassed in all of them, it achieves only a fraction of what wavedashing can do.

>>277502674
he's wrong about dash dancing
Combos exist in more capacity right now in Smash 4 than they have in Melee

>>277502342
Mango was a playtester for PM at one point. Not sure which version but he has played.

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>>277502692
>>277502920
seems like i hit a nerve.

>>277502578

>Project M would have over 10 times as many entrants as Brawl does

Fuck you, Alex Strife, you sellout

>>277498861
Got a link?

>>277502905
>>Smash 4 combos are all boring gayass shit like Sheik chaining utilts and fairs, or Diddy's throw -> uair bullshit. there's nothing anywhere near the level of Melee's
Smash 4 has no combos, it was designed to be this way. ANYTHING can be escaped from witht he proper DI or vectoring (it was nerfed, not removed completely). Any infinite combos that are discovered were patched out too iirc.

Smash 4 really only has attack strings where you just have to keep throwing out attacks and hope the enemy lets you land a follow-up.

>>277502578
PM gets dropped but brawl remains.

Would easily be 200+ PM entrants. Fucking apex jewing out to Nintendo and not sticking to what the actual community wants. That and nintendo supposibly cattering to the esports community but doesn't actually care what we want and forces PM off the list

sickening all around

>>277497895
>but muh skill
>but infinities aren't bad in fighting games
>but you shouldn't be grabbed in the first place and all your moves and reads should be perfect

>>277499069
You have to get the grab with nana being alive and right next to you. In most close encounter, nana will manage to get hit and get knock away, so even if you get a grab with popo, you will just have to do a regular throw or the opponent will wiggle out. It's quite fair and IC is not even top tier despite requiring a very good technical knowledge as well as luck to play (you hope nana AI don't go full retard and throw a set for you)

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>>277496112
It already has. Its got a good competitive scene going now and it'll only get bigger and better as the meta is still very young. I mean the game just came out.
Shit is hype and in my opinion more competitively balanced and fun than Melee.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NRQHu23TU8&index=24&list=LLGho_JkZAJLXlmu6KtSSMmw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpU6zwL3hu0&list=LLGho_JkZAJLXlmu6KtSSMmw&index=34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPzyPZ-E-EQ&list=LLGho_JkZAJLXlmu6KtSSMmw&index=26
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD6wSiPUiZw&index=2&list=LLGho_JkZAJLXlmu6KtSSMmw

>>277503207
You haven't played the game. There's plenty of combos

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>>277502972


all I have is Strong Bad vs literally the worst Falco ever

>>277503229
wait, so does this mean there will ACTUALLY BE TIME SET OUT JUST FOR BRAWL?

I seriously hope that they have a fucking second stream to air that on. I'd rather watch marvel than that snooze-fest.

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>>277499050
>mfw from AZ
>mfw seeing AXE absolutely wreck silentwolf

Get fucked nigga.

>>277503329
You're ignoring what he said to keep your opinion, it has combos if your opponent is a idiot. Everything can be escaped except a few low % true combos.

>>277498861
I called a Litchi winning BB at EVO, and as much as I hate Litchi it was a really good series.

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>>277503292
>That last one
Jesus fuck

>>277502953
This. 1 Frame link on an analog stick? Shit isn't going to fly, and if you do get it down consistently enough your controller isn't going to last long.

>>277502916
Meta Knight was actually so broken that many of his moves were fast enough (fucking 2 frame up air) to combo into each other before the airdodge of of hitstun window of 13 frames which made him one of the few characters to actually have true combos in Brawl, probably more than he does in Smash 4.

>>277503329
I play Smash 4 a lot and enjoy it, but there are no combos in this game unless you count the few characters who can get one aerial or maybe a dash attack off of a throw at low percents. Characters move too far away from each other and airdodging is too strong for their to be any real follow ups.

>>277502429

I wish that was true. Seriously, every god damn time I get the red lightning they barely manage to live.

>>277503207
That's actually wrong

>>277503368
His name is Kid Buu. It's a fucking guarantee he was gonna be awful as fuck.

>>277502731
Zelda main here, I know that feeling all too well.
Especially against Links, seriously, fuck Link.

>>277503207

nah. there's definitely some guaranteed shit in Smash 4

>>277503292
>Zero Skill Samus in 3 of the 4 videos
Lol.

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have fun with your cod's and gay ass 3d rpgs

I'll have fun with some good old fashion turn based-rpg with good writing

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I think Smash 4 is good for competitive play. With Melee, if you don't pick a super fast character you will lose in minuets, Smash 4 is just way more balanced. I've seen people kick ass with characters like Mega Man, shit is hype.

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>>277498519
To be fair ice climbers dont have much else besides that

It's like complaining about fox's shine or falcons knee or marths range

Its a little more extreme but some characters will have major advantages in one particular area. Get over it. Yeah it kinda sucks and a stupid way to win but so is playing jigglypuff and spamming back airs. It's pretty easy to gimp Nana and solo popo blows ass.

>>277503508
Down throw to foward air is a inescapable combo in Smash 4

>>277503628
Too slow

Low skillcap

>>277503612
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxMNcLpiJEg&index=30&list=LLGho_JkZAJLXlmu6KtSSMmw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXFNWK_wKME&index=25&list=LLGho_JkZAJLXlmu6KtSSMmw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjZVP9-ruOg&index=123&list=LLGho_JkZAJLXlmu6KtSSMmw

>>277503513

Plenty of characters have true combos without throws, it's hard to think of any that don't. That said, they're not exactly exciting combos.

>>277501353
It's probably the match up. The most popular match up for melee are the fastest match up possible, while in PM there are all kind of match up being played since the meta is still new.

If you watch any melee match with samus in it, it's pretty much extremely slow as well

The with Smash 4 is that the combos are either braindead flowcharts of maybe 2-3 hits or completely nonexistent especially at higher percents, there isn't really any room for creative or situational followups like in Melee.

Played Smash 4 for about a month now. I only play with a group of friends and we're all at a decent skill level, so there's not much campy shit. I mainly only find overly defensive plays online and with certain characters, but overall I really like the pacing of the game.

I'm still going strong too and I'm watching m2k's streams to improve my play now as well. Compared to PM and Melee, which only lasted me a month before I got bored of them.

>>277503738
>Its too slow and too low a skillcap cuz no wavedashing and i lose at For Glory
FTFY

I'm somewhat new to competetive smash but I've been playing Ganondorf in SSBM. Any tips on the Falco matchup? Laser spam shuts me down and I get pillar comboed like crazy. And I don't think Ganon's chaingrab on Falco is within human reaction times. In particular, I get destroyed on Final Destination.

>>277503576
>Especially against Links, seriously, fuck Link.
Fucking agreed. They do nothing but spam arrows and their side b. It's fucking annoying. Fight me like a man!
I had a Duck Hunt constantly roll and spam clay/can and forward smash. Once he got a kill off me, he taunted my ass so I just ran and gave no fucks, tipped his asshole out of there.

>>277503292
i just hope the meta actually can evolve and faggots like Zero get shut down for trying to ban characters left and right.

>>277503329
I own the game on 3DS and Wii U, mained dark pit, falco, and luigi, and have a luigi amiibo. I'm just not delusional and am willing to admit when the game has problems.

>>277503628
I don't know about any of that, but I just plain like 4 way more. Some friends and I played both it and Melee last night and we all enjoyed 4 more by a lot. Most of the characters felt a lot better in 4 to us. Feels good to not be a competitivefag.

>>277503614
Kingdom of loathing. Oh how I remember waiting for rollover... that was like, 10 years ago.

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>>277503628
I've had more fun with sm4sh than any of the other 3.

>playing melee with friends
>mfw picking Bowser, DK, or Ganondorf

going back to 4 after playing melee for an hour was jarring to say the least

>>277503628
mega man is the best projectile character in the game, his MUs are just really skewed because he can't handle the high/top tier who have the run speed/ground game to ignore his zoning, thus he'll probably be mid high at best i think

i don't think his customs are supposed to be anything special though, so i think he'll fall off a bit when/if customs emerge more

>>277503821
You just haven't played it enough Anon. Diddy has plenty creative combos, along with Ganon surprisingly, Fox, Kirby, Falco, Rosalina, Sonic, Shiek, Link, Shulk, plenty.

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>>277503634
>fox's only good thing is his shine
>falcon's only good thing is his knee

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>>277503372
It will probably be one of the first tournament to start, with Melee pools and other stuff.
Either that or will play on stream after everything else is done.
Brawl is gonna get no love, it's kind of sad

>>277500923

>lemme swooooce right in!

i'll never play megaman with a straight face again

>>277503628
Sm4sh has a lot of potential, but rage mechanic and being extremely favorable towards a defensive playstyle holds it back a lot. I don't think it's humanly possible to find a matchup more fucking boring to watch than Sonic vs Rosa, or either of the two matching up against anyone else in the game because one is a 100% opportunist playstyle character and the other is someone who would probably wait out the clock from start to finish waiting for you to make a move and then plays keepaway when her meatshield dies.

>>277503660
Congratulations, you listed one true combo. That doesn't change the fact that Brawl MK has significantly more and better followups.

>>277497895
>not elbowing him in the face for being a cunt
damn shame.

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>>277503901
>Zero
God I hope that faggot dies.
Is he actually pushing for certain characters to get banned?

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>>277503292
That first video.

>>277503995

Ganon has very few combos. He's too slow and his hits send opponents too far.

>>277503628
you've obviously never seen competitive melee because peach, ice climbers, luigi, dr. mario, yoshi, jigglypuff, and even ganondorf are viable.

>>277503854
oh, just another sm4shbabby who doesn't understand why every game before brawl was good.

move along.

>>277503569
So prove it.
What combos are in the game?

>>277504082
Yeah because he was fucking broken.
Up throw to Up B is a combo I think too. Don't get mad at me anon. I don't play Meta Knight in Smash 4 or Brawl very much so I know little combos with him

>>277496559
>defensive gameplay always winning
people always say this but I haven't seen much evidence. What do you mean by this?

>>277503292
>Gamer's Paradise
whoa they're like right around the corner from me

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>>277502731
>Marth player having trouble with rollspam

I have personally played against at least 2 Marth players from /vg/ who punish rolls like they've been doing it all their lives. Marth (and Lucina by default) is one of the best roll punishers in the fucking game with that side B and dtilt.

>>277502731
Get Gud scrub. I play Marth and I reck defense players on a regular basis. If you can't adapt to different play styles, you have no business playing multiplayer games.

>>277504135
Air attack followups my friends. Works wonders at low percents specifically

>>277504101
He threw a shitfit about Lucario. I don't think Diddy mains should ever be allowed to complain about other characters in this game.

>>277504225
A campy playstyle revolving around shielding.

Which actually isn't that bad because you don't see it too much as players get good. Watch some of Mew2king's stream for example - there's not much defensive play at all. Defensive play exists mainly for low-middle tier players who haven't git gudded yet.

>>277499096

Nailing the timing for links that are a couple frames long isn't exactly fun or easy

It's fun when you finally can pull off the shit on command but sitting in practice mode trying to link 4 vega crouching pokes together isn't most people's idea of a good time

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>>277504242
Y-yeah? Does anyone know if there are any places near Massachusetts that do tourneys? I-i think I might do good

>>277504289
I know, that's what I do all day.
>>277504295
It's not that it is hard, it's just that it's really fucking annoying.

>>277503995
>Diddy has plenty creative combos
That's the exact character I had in mind when thinking of braindead flowchart autocombos and the rest of those characters aren't really helping your case. Honestly I wish Smash 4 apologists would focus on a different aspect of the game to defend because even high level Smash 4 players would not pretend the combo game is anywhere near as deep or engaging as Melee's.

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>>277503292
>>277503761

I've been watching competitive Smash 4 since 3DS release, and all I've ever seen is gameplay that resets to neutral for 90% of the duration of the match. none of the hits are meaningful, the players just slowly chip each other up to kill%, and the most exciting moments are just gimps. It's only been 3 months but I'm already bored to death of it.

Meanwhile I've been watching Melee tourneyfaggotry since 2007 and I'm still not bored of it. it's just got so much going for it. the things that you can pull off with the game's engine are so crazy that it never gets old.

>>277503628
>implying you need a fast and heavy character to win melee

floaties are just as viable

>>277503368
I might be bad as well but didn't he got 0 to death ? Or there was actually ways to get out of this ?

>>277504351
Holy shit really? Coming from the guy who only plays top tier characters.
Top fucking kek

>>277504303
>Works wonders at low percents specifically
Literally everything you've said so far is confirming what I said in >>277503821.

>>277503854
What skillcap exactly is in smash 4?

I've done a bit of for glory and played diddy. I spammed safe hit boxes and spammed really safe grab into aerials. When I was in trouble I knew I could roll to safety. I also through a banana sometimes.

I didn't have to learn any play style or tech skills

I didn't have to learn exciting combos and options

I didn't have to learn any movement skill

I didn't learn any particular match ups because everyone has the same vague faggoty strategy. The only real character types is projectile spammers and "i'm going to grab you"

I can't recall dropping a single game

If you really think that the game is any deeper then that you have brain problems and should probably off yourself

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Let me get this straight...

People actually miss long drawn out combos where you just bounce around someone as they helplessly wait for you to knock them off stage?

Thats the type of game you want to play?

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>>277504295
>>277504289
Not that guy but he didn't say he couldn't handle it.
He said he doesn't have fun playing with people who don't like to play aggressive. What's so hard about reading?

>>277504424
Well in my opinion how you feel about Melee is how I feel about Smash 4. I guess we just have different opinions
>>277504508
Didn't say it doesn't work at high percents. Just saying its easier at lower ones

>>277503902
I main Falco too and I've managed to chain three fairs off stage
Maybe you're just ass?

>>277503995
There are no combos past maybe a couple of up-tilts from certain characters. At high percent, you get launched far as fuck all the time to the point where you've recovered from being stunned by the time your enemy is anywhere near you. Following up on attacks when they go flying is even worse due to the multiple air-dodges making it a pain in the ass.

I think Smash 4 would have been 10x better if they at least compromised with the Melee air-dodge by making it so that you could only dodge once, but instead of going straight into free-fall, you just couldn't jump again. Like fox/falco's side-b in sm4sh, but instead of not being able to side-b, you lose your jump.

>>277498020
>>277496559
Please explain all the diddy kongs and sheiks winning tourneys.

>>277504453

do the words "directional influence" have any meaning to you?

Melee fags will keep on Meleeing, while everyone else will move on to Smash 4. There isn't a reason to play Brawl when 4 is objectively superior.

>>277504561
The story remains the same regardless of what title it is, you can escape combos in every smash game, even smash 64. It's up to you to figure out how, not every game is made to hold your hand.

>>277504525
Then you were playing shitty people because you should be getting punished for rolling and grabbing.
For Glory is not a good place honestly if you want to face good players

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>>277504583
if he doesn't have fun with what is literally marth's playstyle then he should just pick a different character

>>277504101
yea, he's one of the main people bitching about Diddy being OP because of the Dthrow > Uair combo killing early

here's his twitter from a month or so ago:
https://twitter.com/ZeRoSSB/status/537381921316016129

and here he is a few days ago playing diddy like the fat spic fuck he is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm-R7Tlsr5g

>>277504351
to be fair, lucario is actually broken. Aura plus rage means that if he's over 100% damage he can one hit KO most of the roster and gives him an absolutely broken recovery (it's even worse than Villagers, and can also kill).

But diddy is nowhere near that broken. Sure he's fast and dthrow > uair feels cheap, but other than that he doesn't have much going for him.

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best smash girl

>>277504561
There are people like that out there. We call them SSB N64 players.

>>277504621
But that's wrong. Some anon posted video links. Go watch those because they have some damn good combos in them and there are plenty more ive seen and done in the game. Git gud.

>>277504597
>chain

there's your keyword. attack chains aren't combos.

nice job killing your own argument.

>>277499069
So much incorrect information, I'm guessing this is just bait.

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>>277504720
PFFFHAHAHAHA
Why does Zero even bother he's not even that good at Smash honestly

>>277504664
>Melee fags will keep on Meleeing, while everyone else will move on to Smash 4
The funny thing is that "everyone else" is a a significantly smaller audience than Meleefags.

>>277504561

>retard #4 million that doesn't understand DI


My question is, why post about Melee if you don't understand the game?

>>277504865
That's actually incredibly wrong.
I hope you are joking

so is PM supposed to feel stiffy or am I just not used to it yet?

I play wario in 4, and while the aerial movement feels wonderful, why the fuck does his grab and bite feel so laggy in pm, jesus

>>277504775
>Go watch those because they have some damn good combos in them
Can't you point to any? I've watched all those videos and have yet to see any.

>>277504424
>mfw watching melee for years
>mfw still seeing new combos or tech

http://youtu.be/CxlbSbEsXhE?t=7m20s

>>277504864

>implying Zero is not good at Brawl and PM

I hate his guts but the fact that he can out-faggot everyone else in the game is an undeniable demonstration of skill

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>>277504710
Don't ask me, I play Marth passive, I know he has too much landing lag on his fair and nair to not try anything too crazy.

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>>277504724

>>277504940
Melee has twice as many entrants for Apex as Smash 4

>>277496559
>I don't like the idea of defense gameplay winning
>plays knockout instead of hp mode

tourneyfags

>>277504986
Oops

Go to 7:20

>>277504945
>I need to be spoonfed
Ok anon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxMNcLpiJEg&index=30&list=LLGho_JkZAJLXlmu6KtSSMmw
I would like you to look at these delicious Little Mac combos

>>277504303

I can't think of any true combos he has. Uair hits way too hard. Maybe from dash attack, but still he's relatively low on combos compared to someone like Ike.

>>277504865
>normalfags
>smaller group than melee fags
>meleefags are this fucking delusional
now i know fighting games haven't gotten the call of duty treatment yet but come the fuck on, you can't be serious.

>>277505074
A GOOD TACTICIAN HAS NOTHING TO FEAR

>>277505074
I want to start a family with her!

>>277504391
There isn't a single necessary 1f link that you need in USF4

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>>277505126
well comparing him to Ike isn't fair when Ike is a beast

>>277505138
>mfw smash 4 competitive dies out in a few years because everyone will already figure out everything

>>277505138
So now you're moving to the whole audience of Smash?
I thought that >>277504865 was talking about the comp community.

>>277505264
Melee competitive scene died years ago and now only nostalgic fags keep it alive honestly. I don't know why you people bother. Smash games are just marketing games anyway.

>>277504785
>chains aren't combos
Is smash your only fighting game?

>>277505264
>competitive
nigger quake is still played competitively at tournaments, but i don't go around threads telling call of duty and battleflop fags that quake is going to be more popular than fucking battleflop in a few years. do you even know why i don't? because spewing shit is wrong and you shouldn't do it.

>>277505094
>That suddenly means the entire scene is bigger
Are you stupid

>>277505260

Well, I'm considering Ike because he's probably the best of the heavyweights when it comes to actual combos, although he still doesn't have a huge amount.

>>277505398
>several tournaments monthly
>scene actually growing
>melee final the most watched in the last major fighting game tournament

Wow it really is dying....

>>277503497
>I refuse to git gud

>>277505124
I watched the whole first match expecting to see something amazing, but nothing came and then he switched to Diddy.

They could release a Melee HD with no gameplay changes and they would still cling to the original gamecube version.

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>>277504986

I feel you, man. Everything about the edgeguard Mango pulls off in game 4 of this set is mindblowing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKsaRJDCWt8&feature=player_detailpage#t=744

the craziest part is that the shine doesn't even hit but it's still a perfect response

>>277505429
combos means that there is enough hitstun for you to actually make your next hit, With smash 4, the hitstun is so low and knockback is so high the next hit can't be considered an actual combo.

>>277505495
So evidently Smash 4's scene isn't dedicated enough to come to the biggest Smash tournament in the world, the biggest Smash 4 tournament so far and probably the best overall indicator for the scene relative to other Smash games.

>>277500124
The online on the Wii U is bare bones period. That's not smash's fault, is it?

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>At my first tournament
>Going in the Brawl and Melee tournament
>Meet Zero there
>Ask to play a match with him as i wait for my name to be called
>We go with Brawl cuz he wanted to
>Pick my boy Sonic (usually switch to Fox second round as that's my set)
>This fucker picks Meta Knight
>O-ok then
>Start match
>Immediately starts spamming up air on me
>Cant get out
>Does this the entire match
>Only get one stock off him
>Next round switch to Fox
>Starts doing it again
>Round ends
>Try to tell him to be someone else without looking like a bitch
>Doesn't get my nods for him to switch
>Asks for one more round
>We do
>Does it again
>Leaves without a word
Fuck this fucker I'll never forgive him

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>>277503292
>first match
>guy keeps yelling "SHORYUKEN"
>even when Megaman is clearly not doing the shoryuken move, but the Hadouken-esque move

Otherwise an okay match

>>277505495

you're stupid if you think the competitive scene for Smash 4 is larger than Melee's at the moment. Melee has had like a dozen tourneys with over 100 entrants since Smash 4 released, and Smash 4 has had... maybe one or two? Did KTARXIII get over 100?

unless you're talking about the number of casuals playing the games casually on a daily basis, in which case, who cares? that's not relevant to the discussion

>>277505398
>Melee competitive scene died years ago

The scene has never been bigger

Arguing melee vs smash 4 is like arguing basketball vs football:

The only people who care about the former is either some autistic foreigner or a black dude

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>>277496112
I'm going to my first melee tourney tomorrow.
Any tips for pikachu and how to get into the competitive scene?

>>277505860
>He's trying to win in a tournament bawww
Fuck off. All is fair game. Welcome to tournaments.

>>277501990
Bidoof is the manest

>>277505870
You didn't say competitive scene. You said scene. So in that case, Smash 4 is much bigger.
Faggot.

>>277505398

the Melee scene has grown to be larger than any smash game (and most fighting game scenes in general, like all of theme save 2 or 3) over the course of the last 2 years. it's bigger than it's ever been

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>>277505860
cry more you sissy

>>277506013
YOU'RE GOING TO GET MERCILESSLY RAPED

>>277505779

The hitstun is the same as in Melee but doesn't have the Brawl airdodge out of hitstun thing. Any issues with following up is probably because of a lack of momentum or too much landing lag.

>>277505797
>Smash 4 just came out
>OMG IT HAS NO SCENE

>Meanwhile it took years for Melee to grow to where it is today
Anon, please.

>>277506046
>All I care about it winnning
Its people like you that make this world a terrible place

>>277505860

>implying you took a stock off Zero in Brawl with Sonic

your story was believable until that point

>>277506013
Just have fun

As for pika, learning to sweet spot recoveries is helpful, and understanding uair hitboxes. Also down spam b-down like a casual, although it can be a useful follow up after an up-smash.

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>>277506193
FUCKING. THIS.
Its amazing how Meleefags don't take into account that Melee has been out for YEARS while Smash 4 just came out. I would EXPECT less combos to be known, and a smaller scene to boot.

I've been doing For Glory a whole bunch.

I can see that this game might be good competitively. My only complaints are really character specific, though I might just need practice.

>>277506072

>scene = how many 9 year olds play the game at home

ok billy, I guess you can win every internet argument if you just change the meanings of words to fit what you said in your first incorrect post

>>277506013
expect to get bodied and understand that getting bodied is part of getting good

>>277506072
>You didn't say competitive scene
The whole fucking thread is talking about the competitive scene, you must be retarded to not infer that's what he meant.

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>>277502731
One of my mains is Pink Robin but I actually prefer crazy levin sword CQC and those crazy electric aerials. I really only use her projectiles if they start running or my sword goes to shit.

>>277504193
Samus falling uair to up special is a true combo

>>277504561
How could anyone not like combos?

Seriously I don't understand how you could find them to be a detriment

>>277506212
It a tournament. The point is to win which some people have fun with. Stick to playing with your friends buddy.

>>277505224

Yeah and none of the advanced tech shit is necessary to play melee well but if you want to really git gud you're gonna need to get that shit down pat

of course any player that really wants to git gud will learn that shit in time but for most people if gitting gud means lots of time and practice on stuff like strictly timed links they wont bother. Of course that's what seperates really good players from just your normal players but it would be nice to see a fighting game that mixes it up a bit and makes the really advanced shit a little bit easier and not so reliant on muscle memory repetition type shit

>>277506273
that's supposed to say "don't spam b-down like a casual"

>>277506013
>tfw in missouri
>tfw no smash tournies nearby ever

>>277506219
We were doing three stock and I somehow managed. I know how to kill with Sonic he's not as shit as everyone says in Brawl in my opinion.

>>277505865
>Hadouken-esque move
It's a charged buster shot, you know, that thing that Megaman is famous for?

You're silly.

>>277506289
during the first few years of Melee's competitive scenes the biggest combo was fair to fair.
Mean while, fow did pkfire, dthrow, fair, fair, dair with sm4sh

>>277505797
except that the game is only a month old so of course it doesn't have a huge fucking scene compared to a 10 year old game

>typical melee fan logic

So to combo / chaingrab people you're supposed to react to their DI and follow up appropriately, right? And for neutral game you're supposed to react immediately after the opponent acts to punish moves, and stuff like that? All the guides and stuff I read seem really intimidating.

I tested my reaction time online (http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime) and averaged around 330 ms, which is 20 frames.

What's your reaction time?

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>>277506013

prepare to be raped

>>277506289

more combos were known when Melee was 3 months old and played casually by 12 year olds than the vast autistic research community of Smashboards has managed to figure out for Smash 4 during thousands of combined hours of study

if you honestly think that competitive Smash 4 will ever look like competitive Melee, then you suffer from a fundamental lack of understanding of the mechanics of each game

>>277506334

wow that's a fucking sick 2 hit combo that relies on getting in difficult position of being properly spaced and falling below a falling opponent

>>277506331

I'm with you too man, I play Red Robin yum and sometimes Pink, and I play her like a goddamn Captain Falcon unless the Levin Sword dies or they are a spammer or something.

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>>277506013
All you need to do is PIKAAAAAAPIKAAAAAPIKACHUUUUUPIKAPIKAPIPIPIPIPIPIPIKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>277506357
All of the players at Capcom cup don't use characters which require 1f links. Tech like that is character specific in SF, in smash, move tech is system wide

>>277502674
>No, it isn't.
Yes it is.
>They really aren't.
Yes they are.
>PP is absolutely nothing like wavedashing.
You clearly haven't seen it in use.

>>277502704
See above.

>>277502905
>no. dash dancing is not in.
Yes, it is. The timing is different, but it is still in. You are probably thinking of foxtrotting.

>>277503043
>In a completed neutered and essentially useless form.
Same as the other guy, you are probably thinking of foxtrotting. Dash dancing is in, the timing is just tighter.
>I honestly prefer Brawl's followup system of purely frame traps and reads over Smash 4's braindead and boring "combo" system consisting entirely of throws>one aerial or repeatedly using stale moves with weak upwards knockback.
You are this bad.
>Perfect pivoting is a technique that's been in every Smash game since the original
Except that isn't true at all. There was a similar technique in Melee, but it didn't do the same thing this does.

>>277506334
Ok, keep going

>>277505860
sounds like typical zero bullshit.

wasn't he crying about diddy a month ago and since then has been picking him at every smash4 tournament and just spamming dthrow to uair?

>>277506375
I know that feel anon.

>>277506434
I know what it is. But the dude kept calling it his "shoryuken" when, if anything, it was closer to a "hadouken" even though it's none of those. I was just pointing out that the commentator had no idea what he was talking about.

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>>277506331
>>277506554
the way it's meant to be played robin bros

>>277502578
LESS THAN FUCKING 64
LIKE 10 PEOPLE EVEN PLAY THAT FUCKING GAME ANY MORE
THANK YOU SO MUCH NINTENDO FUCKING LOVE YOUR SUPPORT FOR THE COMMUNITY

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>>277506514
>more combos were known when Melee was 3 months old

Melee didn't get proper recognition until years after its release. Several techniques like washdashing and l-cancels weren't properly utilized until much later. Until then, there were barely any "proper" combos.

I know you want 4 to look bad, but stop pretending Melee's competitive scene was amazing right from the get go.

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>>277506665
Mario utilt is guaranteed for 2-3 hits on any fresh stock

>>277506289
The difference is that Melee has happened, and as soon as smash 4 was even released on 3DS, everyone who was good was looking for combos witht heir main, and none were found past infinite combo glitches.

Smash 4 only has attack strings.

>>277502731
>I play Marth in FG 1v1, so I can't be campy, I have to be in their face all the time
Is this really what every new player thinks? I have seen people slap "rushdown"/"aggressive" onto every character, even fucking DK and Samus
You are a retard and I hope you die

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>>277506502
>330 ms

that's 32 frames and it's slow as fuck anon, luckily it won't really affect much of your play unless you try to pick up Captain Falcon and dthrow spacies for tech-chase regrab on reaction. most of the neutral game and combos operate more on prediction/reads than on reaction time

I assume you're talking about Melee, though, because DI in Smash 4 just consists of 'hold up/down and away from the enemy to escape combo', the DI mixups are nonexistent

>>277506013
expect to get 4 stocked. a lot.

and if it's a semi-known tournament expect a few of the lesser known "pros" to show up and act as if they fucking own the place, only to get owned by a skilled player and then you have to spend the rest of the tournament listening to them john about how it wasn't their fault they let some unknown player beat them.

>>277506289
>>277506193
Every fucking Smash 4 player who uses this logic is retarded, of course Melee developed slower because nobody expected the game to have the competitive depth it did and the scene wasn't established at all. Now people have had 2 game's worth of experience dissecting the game's engine, searching every nook and cranny for exploits, finding all the frame data and using strategies from previous games as a benchmark which is especially important considering how Smash 4 vs. Brawl are probably the most similar any two Smash games have been. There was probably more found out about Smash 4 in the first week than there was about Melee in the first 3 years. Also, literally any other series would have the brand new hyped game be the most popular by far, the fact that a 13 year old launch title for a 2 generation old console has twice as many entrants for the scene's biggest tournament is kind of pathetic.

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>>277503292
>Zucco's spacing with the buster.
Holy shit. I hope he keeps playing Mega

>>277506514
>more combos were known when Melee was 3 months old
Care to name them all? Even wavedashing, the signature technique of Melee, wasn't yet well known then.

>>277506910
What the fuck am I going to do then as Marth? Sit on the other side spamming my jabs? Of course I'm spacing my tips and all that, but it is not fun playing against a faggot who plays the clock constantly.

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>>277506808

dumbass I figured out stomp knee and Fox's uthrow-uair within a month of playing it as a kid. shit's intuitive as fuck, I'm not claiming that Melee's competitive scene was amazing at all. it didn't take off at all, but the fact is that the combo potential of the two games are readily apparent and you don't have to wait a million years to tell whether or not there will be bigass combos

>>277506514
except no one is implying that smash4 will ever be identical to melee, but way to go full on defense mode faggot.

>>277502424
>Dash dancing is still in, you just have to git gud.
It has no utility even if you "git gud" with the 2 frame window of that horse shit
>Combos are back too.
Definetly nothing like Melee or 64s combos. They're all guarenteed horse shit that only work at low%s or out of really weak hits
>perfect pivot
CONFIRMED for not knowing what the fuck you're talking about

>>277506808
The competitive scene didn't exist at all when Melee came out, Smash 4's scene has two game's worth of experience analyzing the game in excruciating detail, they're not even remotely comparable. The fundamental nature of Smash 4's gameplay will not change if some obscure exploit is found a few months or years down the line.

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>>277506661
Dash dancing is in but, here's the thing. It only be done in a very small area, meaning if an opponent try to approach, you will still take the hit unless you were already moving out of the way. Look at some Melee or PM dash dancing videos to get what I'm talking about.
Combo game in Smash 4 is very weak, I won't go into it.
PP is not wavedashing, it puts you into a neutral position, but does not have the versatility that wavedashing has such as wavelanding onto a platform, or off of a ledgejump, not only that it has you face the opposite direction of your opponent.

>>277503292
Yeah, I've been thinking that better recovery might mean more exciting and rewarding off-stage play in the long run as people get more comfortable with the movement and characters.

>>277507169
Watch some fucking videos, holy shit. It's really easy to learn about this shit and not look like a huge idiot.

>>277506434
He means to point out that the commenter was yelling Shoryuken while mega man used the charge shot which looks more like a hadouken

>>277506936
What? 60 frames per second * .330 seconds = 20 frames. Right?

Yeah I'm talking about Melee. I'm doing best with ganondorf since I try to predict my opponent's moved and stomp the shit out of him.

>>277506865
Yeah, so is every one else.
Where's the combos?

>>277507017
They weren't the ones you could only do out of throws or the ones you had to memorize like 4's combos