Never played Morrowind, but for those who think it's better than 'rim, why? What gameplay elements was Skyrim lacking?
Or is it just nostalgiafags that think Morrowind is better?
Quests and story, also locations were more unique and memorable in morrowind. At first I thought skyrim was better but now I'd say morrowind is when I finally gave it a chance and played it some more
Skyrim at least seemed to be going for the same feel as Morrowind, but most of its appeal was pretty surface level. We don't actually learn anything about the nords, or the giants, or the dragons, even though their presence is pretty intriguing.
If you plan on playing it, wait. I am a massive fan of Morrowind, and I'm waiting to go back to it for at least a couple more years. OpenMW will be out with TR, mods will be transferred, and the good bits of Skywind will be carried over.
That's a pretty cool article, I didn't know it existed.
Also, OP, if you're not just trying to stir up shit and actually want to play the games, I'd probably suggest Skyrim first. I enjoy Morrowind more, but they're pretty similar in a big-picture sense, and it's probably easier to transition onto the TES "genre" by playing the most modern game first.
Give Skyrim a try. If you like it, play Morrowind, or even Oblivion. If you like the series at that point enough to continue exploring it, you can even go crazy with it and try Daggerfall.
Arena exists too, but that's so generic as to barely be TES anyway.
Mechanically, the combat is about as engaging in both games. In that it's garbage. You can't cry about rng mechanics in Morrowind when random kill animations happen in Skyrim just as much. But elder scrolls isn't about engaging combat, is it?
Morrowind had way cooler level design. Fuck, even non combat zones felt different - the devs actually thought outside the box and said, "hey, what would a house look like if it was built for people who could just fucking fly?"
Skyrim's dungeons are almost without fail hallway simulators, you're lucky to get a single side-room. Why the fuck they thought they needed a spell that tells you which of ONE directions to go in is beyond me.
The game world exists to be exploited - if you're smart enough, you can just jump or levitate to the top of one of those old forts and skip all the piss shit daedra milling about on the lower floors.
>Player Character fame/reputation
>Realistic Guilds (they actually have requirements)
>Guild ranks, Faction ranks
>More spell effects
>Can summon as many monsters at a time
>Clothing under/over armor
>Stamina influences battle other than "more power attacks!"
>Expansion packs perfected the Journal system
I might have missed some stuff. But who cares about Morrowind anyways cause Daggerfall is way more fun.
You don't buy houses in Morrowind, you build strongholds. At a certain places in the game, you have the opportunity to join one of the three "Great Houses" of Morrowind. Advance enough, and you get a mini-quest series to build a stronghold, which is different for each House.
Or, as another Anon said, it's pretty easy to just take a house, or even to use a guild hall as a base of operations until then (they provide storage and bunks to sleep in).
The one I miss the most is
>more spell effects
Fuck, one of my favorite runs is one where the only offensive spell I have is absorb health. Can't do that in Skyrim without being a vampire and even then it doesn't improve with perks and so forth so what's the point
Because Bethesda is lazy, plus they're distracted with developing FO.
Magic was fucking trash in Skyrim. What the fuck were they thinking. Removing spellmaking. A feature the series is known for. Fucking incompetent.
Also everything was so grindy in Skyrim. I swear Daggerfall was the only TES game that did leveling right.
All the ES games have issues.
Morrowind was better in my opinion due to exploration that actually rewarded you and it handled the lore way better. The world was just way more interesting.
Oblivion shat hard on exploration by pure scaled leveling and loot but had decent quests.
All Skyrim did was try to adapt the scaled leveling which is just covering up the problem. It also had some of the worst quests in the series. It also has some of the worst mods in the series. At least Oblivion was a better game with mods. Skyrim has so few mods that even attempt to fix issues with the game it's embarrassing.
>There is a bug that makes merchants equip items you sell to them.
That was a bug? I thought that was then coolest thing in any game ever. They kept the good stuff they won't sell it back to you either as if they were stingy. I thought that was so cool...
>we will never have vanilla titties ever again
That's openMW. I have no idea what TR is though.
>a spell that tells you which of ONE directions to go in
There is occasionally a short path that branches off. You could accidentally take that path and lose five minutes of game time. I would say you could find some neat loot but there isn't any in Skyrim.
Yeah, I think that's a misleading description too. If you sell a merchant gear that's better than the gear they have on, they'll just fucking start wearing it and won't sell it back to you.
You sell a guy in a leather cap an iron helmet? The leather cap goes into the merchandise pile, the iron helmet goes on his head. I always thought that was cool.
>Finally get Morrowind working on my PC
>Join Thieves Guild in Balmora
>Click on advancement thinking the boss will tell me how many quests I need to do before I can get a new rank
>She makes me a Wet Ear
>Confused, but try it again
>Makes me a Footpad
I had to look at the wiki to understand it. Apparently I can become a Ringleader if I keep hitting the button.
I gotta admit, it's kinda disappointing. I liked how it was in Oblivion.
I think when I'm finished doing all the Thief Guild quests I'll join the Morag Tong.
Do they offer fun quests?
This is probably the biggest hindrance the series has ever faced. Quest Markers are fucking cancer and completely ruin the need for exploration. The journal system gave you enough information for you to figure out where you went, and there was always something that caught your eye that made you explore further because you weren't shown exactly where to go and how to get there.
All because of one stupid puzzle box, and it wasn't even fucking hard to find it, but people complain about it.
Daggerfall >>> Oblivion > Morrowind >> Skyrim > Arena
Morrowind is better than Skyrim in almost every way. And I'm one of those "oblivion iz best" faggots. The only thing Skyrim does better is combat, and that's still shitty.
Seriously Bethesda, if you like money, copy and paste Dark Souls combat for the next Elder Scrolls.
>mfw Morrowind was the first to casualise the Elder Scrolls series
I love the fuck out of Morrowind but it will never deserve 1st place for me.
Pluses for Morrowind
+Acrobatics and magically assisted jumping
+Alchemy, Spellcrafting, and Enchanting (even without alchemy abuse)
+Huge amount of gear locations with dozens of items for each slot
-/+ Last appearance of canonical reverse joint legged Argonians (if you care about such things)
-/+ Player accountability, if you fuck your game, you fuck your game. (if you're not a fan of Oblivion and Skyrim's plot character babying.
Pluses for Skyrim
+Weapon crafting vastly improved and expanded from the test attempts in Mournhold/Solstheim/Shivering Isles
+Companions greatly improved from Oblivion
No Bethesda game has good, or even decent, melee combat, but it's more action-y in Skyrim at least. Both games suffer for embracing the meme worthy "Stealth Archer" style over any other method of combat.
My personal opinion is that Morrowind had better writing, but it also has tremendous plotholes.
All Bethesda games are buggy messes, Morrowind most of all, and it was the game that taught them they could make a half finished game, then patch it a hundred times to little avail, and then leave it for the fan modders to make it much better.
There's more I'd like to add but this post is already long.
>5 votes for oblivion
lol, /v/ called it back in like 2010. we knew that someday, even though oblivion was the scourge of bethesda and seen like such a slap in the face back in 2006, that eventually there'd be a day when most of /v/'s first tes game would turn out to be oblivion
Oblivion is actually pretty solid
well made cities that all felt different (vanilla IC felt small though for what it was supposed to be, but aesthetically nice) great side quests with non-euclidean branching rather than the linearity of Morrowind ones, or the shortness of Skyrim questlines.
the wepon and armour designs were all really sweet, the weapons especially are probably the most "realistic" in terms of actual functionality while still looking cool, and the dungeons were definitely 2nd best i the series after Daggerfall in terms of design and layout, only the shitty loot in vanilla holds it back. it also had the most locations/dungeons of any of the full 3D games
its modability too is easily the best, I mean Skyrim has been out for years now and while there are some great mods, there are just so many more for Oblivion to fit every need
the absolute worst thing about Skyrim though that always stops me from making a new character is how DULL the early game is
like you ALWAYS have to go through that shitty intro, then because there is no class system until like lvl 15-20 you are just some generic shlub with no real skills and it makes early game really boring, I rarely make it past lvl 20 on a character due to this boredom
He does a surprisingly good job of explaining why the game deserves a good reputation, and why Skywind is not a solution. A bit longwinded, though.
actually he has stamina at the start of the fight
morrowind combat is just broken because they basically ported it over from daggerfall minus all the other attributes that made it work and gave us this shitty system
Fuck know, the dumbed down shitty go get item, bring item back * infinity was fucking awful.
>>+Companions greatly improved from Oblivion
>Companions that don't level up with you
>Enchant ring with constant effect damage over time
>Ring is quite expensive
>Merchant puts it on
>Dies in a couple seconds
>Take all his shit + the ring
>Rinse and repeat
>There's actually 8 votes for Oblivion
I think I'm done with /v/ for a while. Utterly shameful.
I grudgingly played through vanilla Oblivion, losing interest partway through. I have always heard this and I know it was made in part as an apology, but I just can't stomach the idea of trudging through the base game again.
As a Daggerfallfag, I always thought Skyrim did a good job in trying to make an Elder Scroll game an Elder Scroll game and step in the right direction compare to Oblivion. I also think that Skyrim shouldn't get all the shit it getting when Oblivion exist.
its 100% true though
I love my cosy Lombardian Skingrad, opening up a winery/farm and buying up the competition
Oblivion as a whole is the 2nd best game after Daggerfall
meme patrol is in full force
Atmosphere above all else is the edge that Morrowind has over its sequels. It really feels like you're a stranger in a strange land, despite the gameplay limitations and shitty combat and broken stats and such. You have a plethora of customization and roleplay options that are just plain absent in following games, and the pacing of the main quest is pretty damn good. It eases you into it and ramps up as you get closer to the end.
Plus it has Vivec. Vivec is awesome. Praise Vivec.
>Quests were infinitely better from RPG stance. You start in the mages guild collecting herbs and end up duelling to the death for title of archmage. You can only rank up if you did enough tasks for them and had decent in skill in magic
>It also got the whole tabletop RPG vibe with the rolls for hits/miss and the like.
>The game gave you actual freedom. You could break the game with some thinking and playing around what it gives you, which is a good thing imo.
>Fixed loots/levels. No levelscaling bullshit. You wandered off into some parts and you'd encounter shit you might not be ready for and it WILL kill you, forcing you to reload.
>No magic marker. Directions were given and you followed them. I actually used the signs on the road which pointed to cities and actually learned the roads.
Those are the main points for me. Combat was a bit clunky but I grew used to it. I simply love the game. Such a shame the series is completely destroyed.
In the runup to Oblivion, Bethesda pushed Radiant AI hard as a be-all, end-all simulation. They did a demo with a shopkeeper - totally scripted - to demonstrate it. What was shown looked beautiful and detailed, and they carefully avoided showing anything bad about the game. A lot of effort went to convincing us the dungeons would be incredibly varied and unique as well. Essentially it was sold as being not only as detailed and complex as Morrowind, but as something ever greater.
everything you said is better in Daggerfall
Morrowind was casualized as hell
Oblivion at least brought some shit back and had a more open ended experience
The problem is that stamina was retarded on Morrowind. It was lowered too quickly, and It didn't replenish fast enough. What's really fucked up is that it's still exactly the same way even in Skyrim. DF had it right where stamina gradually wore down so that REST had a purpose.
>Better cities than skyrim
All of the cities in Skyrim feel different. A lot of Oblivion's just felt like generic European fantasy ones.
>More realistic designs
Not even close. A lot of the light armour looked stupid and the fact that everyone got glass and daedric armour at level 20 made the entire game look silly. Skyrim has the better looking armours and weapons from a realistic angle and Morrowind is better from a fantasy angle. Oblivion awkwardly falls in the middle but isn't nearly as good.
Skyrim has more mods (if I remember correctly) and better mods than Oblivion. When Oblivion came out, Morrowind was still being modded. When Skyrim came out, everyone stopped caring about Oblivion.
>How dull early game Skyrim is
Oblivion's was just as bad. K'vatch was fun the first time. It didn't help that the game broke and became almost impossible to beat if you didn't do the main quest immediately as the level scaling was retarded. Atleast in Skyrim you can fuck around and not even bother with Dragons forever with limited consequence.
>Always have to go through the shitty intro
Alternate start mods are very popular and very fun.
That said, best parts of Oblivion were Shivering Isles and the Dark Brotherhood.
I put probably 500 hours into Oblivion and loved it when it came out but it is grossly inferior to Skyrim in most regards.
I think most people who started with Morrowind can easily agree Daggerfall was the best in terms of concept of gameplay. Climbing needs to be back in the game, for one small example.
This made me feel like playing morrowind. I'm pretty sure it has the spirit and atmosphere of the games I've always loved.
I actually liked Oblivion (nostalgia reasons involved but I think it really had what it took to impress a young teenager who was into open world games). I'm definitely going to give it a try. Seems like one of these games that haunt you after you've played them, and you take a piece of what they brought you with you, and doesn't stop giving after you stop playing.
the thing is Radiant AI DID work
it just worked too well
you would have random NPCs murdering each other over random shit, or stealing each others stuff, or all kids of weird things like one guy breaking a towns economy
while this is cool, it is easily gamebreaking and could lead to tons of bugs where many quests or whatever are simply lost to the player for no fault of their own because of shit going on while they were not present, that's not fun.
as it is they still have detailed actions and there were patches to add some things back like thievery in cities, which mods then expanded on.
Skyrim abandoned it and now its all scripted
Morrowind was awful charecter wise, they all sputed the same copypaste paragraphs and stood in place 24/7 with shops open all day
hell even Daggerfall had day/night cycles and special holidays where shit would be different
Gothic spoiled me so I can never enjoy something like TES again.
OP, play Gothic 1-3
3 with community patch
Remember to choose longswords, and don't fight without having your fatigue at a healthy level.
Consider installing the fanmade patches, otherwise for a first run vanilla should be good. The animations are very painful, it'll take a bit to adjust.
I'd encourage you not to install Tribunal until you're more advanced in level.
there is actually a hell of a lot in the game, the only thing is its spread out more and YOU have to actually go find it yourself instead of running into quest-givers every 3 meters on the path who need YOU to help them because you are the Mary Suevarine . you have to do things yourself and take your own notes (by saving important dialogue into your notebook)
brilliant morrowind quests:
bring me 3 flowers
bring me 3 shrooms
bring me a bowl (?! really you feline bitch, do the trivial shit yourself)
find my notes (they are in this building in fact one of them is in the adjacent room)
give this fake shit to the elf bitch
kill a bunch of telvanies
both morrowind and skyrim are shit
When the game is designed with it in mind, you can't find your way. Turn them off like Todd Howard said, and you'll have almost no idea where to go.
Morrowind had directions. Finding your way by landmark descriptions. And in at least one case, outright incorrect directions. But you could find your way.
It's like saying you can just ignore fast travel. Morrowind has striders and boats and Mage Guilds and indices. And Mark and Recall. It works so much better.
>video games make everything like the Idol in Raiders of The Lost Ark, it's always at the end of the dungeon
It's just a fuckin' puzzle box, not even the bandits could be assed to loot it.
So you only played the Mage's Guild hazing quests?
Kill central main storyline NPCs. Game tells you the thread of prophecy is broken. You can still complete it by an alternate path almost no one has ever used, but that was planned and written for.
Morrowind had the most interesting world, creatures and plot.
Skyrim (with mods) has the best combat, graphics, and just gameplay in general.
They should never have split their manpower to do FO3. Skyrim was so small and empty. Faction quests, cities, npcs, attributes, magic. There's so much missing it's infuriating. What's even worse is that people probably expect the modding community could fix everything.
I never played Morrowind until a few years ago and I still think it's a better RPG than Oblivion and Skyrim, nostalgia has nothing to do with it. There's no denying Oblivion and Skyrim suffered from getting console priority and a broadened audience. Not as games, as RPGs.
>All of the cities in Skyrim feel different
5 of them are different, and they all feel so empty aside from Markarth which is the only novel one, not to mention under-developed to the point that after you do the 'thane' quests there is nothing to do there
its obvious they focuses all their energy into Whiterun
I agree with level scaling, that Skyrim handled a lot better, but what I hated was that in Skyrim if you didn't smith or enchant then you were useless damage wise latter game, as magic was a joke damage/protection wise and poisons didn't stack up enough to make the difference
as for Style, Oblivion had some pretty sweet armour, only Dwarven I give to Skyrim, but Oblivion's was still nice looking, more ceremonial.
not to mention the fact that they got rid of greaves/pants as well as repair was pretty lame
mods is just flat out wrong, there are plenty of mods being made for Oblivion still, mostly by Europeans and Japs which is annoying for getting translations, Skyrim mods just never offer 'exactly' what im looking for unlike Oblivion's
early game simply doesn't compare at all, I make a theif class in Oblivion, and I start as an adiquate theif who can steal and sneak with decent reliability
no matter WHAT you want to be in Skyrim you always start as Generic-o the Fighter and everything including magic is focused around doing damage/fighting only.
>alternate start mods
I said Vanilla
with mods anything comes into play and its not relevant
>kill a bunch of telvanies
>meanwhile I am head of House Telvanii and see no issue in this
You missed the >(with mods)
As it makes enemies use their shields, evade, and generally just makes the combat more of an actual fight than random flailing. It can make the combat feel like it takes a bit of strategy and that blocking matters.
That said, it still isn't great it's just better than the rest.
To be fair Radiant AI was in the game and it was capable of what they showed... but they just didn't factor in how much fucking work it would be to actually make shit function without breaking the game. So they had to dumb it down a hell of a lot. So thieves didn't steal shit from people, guards didn't chase down and murder thieves, and towns didn't turn into ghost towns when a thief stole something and got attacked by guards and defended himself and accidentally hit somebody else, and when the player gets there the entire town is dead from the brawl.
They weren't willing to put in the work to make it more sophisticated, and that would probably put a lot of strain on the CPU anyway, so they ended up cutting it. For what it's worth, the NPC schedules in Oblivion are a lot more complex than they are in Skyrim, and they were literally the first company to even attempt procedural NPC conversations. If they had put more time into it (and were better at their jobs) they could have delivered. But they shot too high.
both systems are shitty, progressing in the guilds in morrowind felt odd because early on you jump through ranks by doing trivial shit, why the hell does buying a bowl and helping two loosers in their girly fight make the guild-master promote me?
my first post was too inflammatory, but still morrowind quests are not some kind of golden standard, its just that skyrim is very shitty
Except the Telvanni murder each other all the time legally.
Which would have been just fine if they hadn't tried to sell us on it. They quietly mumbled a few things about having to scale it down a bit, then only after the release did they bother to mention how it had been almost entirely removed.
>decide for whatever reason, to read the youtube comments for this video
>only d&d nerds like morrowind
>the game doesn't have action packed combat
>the graphics are shit
>the game is too hard
>the game is too complicated
These are the people that share my hobby. These are the people who dictate where video games are heading. Someone just end the world already.
Magic was horribad in both Oblivion and Skyrim.
Hitting level 50 in Oblivion as a pure mage was a nightmare as my destruction never got better but all the enemies became astronomically more powerful to the point where a single guard could kill the master of the mages guild with ease. Skyrim was almost but not quite as bad as the level scaling wasn't that stupid.
>Skyrim mods just never offer 'exactly' what im looking for
That seems more like a personal issue but yes, I am aware that Japan is crazy about Oblivion but did not include it as I am not too in touch with it.
I found Oblivion boiled down to exactly the same feeling of "Just fight all the time"
I feel like ALL Elder Scrolls games are really intended for stealthy characters using light armour, a blade and a little bit of illusion/alteration. Skyrim puts an emphasis on crafting and Morrowind puts an emphasis on breaking the game with alchemy but Oblivion didn't really do much in my opinion>
I do miss crafting spells though and think Skyrim dropped the ball in the magic department.
>No because I've never played most of those lesser known ones nor have you.
lel fag, all of them are worth playing except the shitty mobile ones and Battlespire
Youtube comments are about as least common denominator as possible. You can only do worse by going to major news and politics sites.
I'm still sad there haven't been many attempts to compete with Bethesda. It's hard as hell to build a game like this, but you'd think we'd have seen something rise up.
>why the hell does buying a bowl and helping two loosers in their girly fight make the guild-master promote me
It shows the faction you're willing to work with them and stay loyal to a point. The other reason they rank you up is because of your skills.
It's better than Skyrim where you can end up as the mages guild master without knowing a lick of magic.
Skyrim has better graphics, combat, and animation, which is expected of a game that's almost 10 years younger. Everything else is a downgrade. Story, lore, quests, atmosphere, loot, magic, everything.
its better, but still bad they could have cut down the number of ranks and attack a specific quest to each rank
so for example meeting the requirement by doing shitty "tell that guy that I said fuck you" quests and getting the skills up would still be there, but you would have a more serious quest or a trial battle/test that actually gives some weight to your advancement
the first time I played morrowind I did a whole lot of those shitty quests in a row without asking for advancement specifically because I thought that they were unimportant to be worthy of ranks, and then I stood there just clicking away and going up the ladder a lot in disbelief
>a variety of different dialogue options and unique NPC reactions
>Oblivion and Skyrim
>"Look at the MUSCLES on you!"
>"How are you? Good day. Goodbye"
>"I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took an arrow to the knee!"
Yes, and it was mocked because people thought there was no demand for an indepth RPG on consoles. Instead it sold very, very well, because people like me didn't have a computer that could run the game and were starved for RPGs.
Unfortunately, Bethesda took a very different lesson from that experience.
It's just a consequence of voice acting. It's not feasibly possible to offer richness of Morrowind's dialogue when every line must be delivered with voice acting. Skyrim improved on it over Oblivion but not nearly to the point of what text can offer.
But that begs the question, while it's true that text offers better quality and better quantity, does anyone here honestly want to go back to being entirely text based?
more like people get infatuated by the memes and live in this nostalgic fantasy of other people without actually playing it in full since its easier to just be a parrot
Morrowind doesn't treat players like they're retarded, still don't understand all the praise.
Daggerfall is still the best TES, and Oblivion is better than Morrowind and Skyrim combined.
If Anyone actually thinks Morrowind is better than Skyrim then they are clearly fucking retarded. I played that game for hours and never hit anything, got killed by every fucking rat, and the only positive thing I could do in the game was see the parts of the world I could get to without being run down by enemies. Combat was impossible in that game.
While I agree they should attach specific quests for rank ups, I will never agree with "less is more". Also I like the quest variety in Morrowind. It's not all combat and grinding. Something Skyrim REALLY FUCKED UP.
As someone who loves both Skyrim and Morrowind, I think Morrowind is better for one simple reason. Hulkjumping. You can Hulkjump in Morrowind, and it's fucking fun as shit.
You can also run at Sanic speeds. Because why not. You can even combine these and turn your RPG into a superhero game, because why the fuck not.
>remember this interview
>I got it for Xbox when it came out
still have it too plus that map it came with on my wall
I wasn't hating on Skyrim, I was just answering the question. Skyrim's definitely better than Oblivion at least.
>Nobody plays TES on consoles.
>8.15 million for Xbox 360
>5.85 million for PS3
Bethesda said that, combined digital and physical sales, they sold 20 million.
So, 20 - (8.15 + 5.85) = 6 million on PC
Meaning, of those who bought skyrim, 70% played on console. Regardless of the accuracy of the individual numbers, it's clear that a significant portion, if not most, of all Skyrim players played it on console. And I'm sure Oblivion was the same way.
>Most NPCs have a large list of topics you can speak with them about, but with many generic responses. However, some NPCs have some unique dialogue.
>Oblivion and Skyrim
>There are far fewer topics you may discuss with NPCs, but nearly all NPCs have unique dialogue and dialogue is nearly always personal and individualized.
Sorry but I'll say fucking no. Reading walls of conversation is an old thing and every modern game should have voice acting. I get it for E.Y.E because it's development conditions but for big releases no way.
I don't even know why I come here any more. I'm posting because of memes. This thread is because of memes. Your opinion's because of memes, and so is mine. Morrowind's a meme-game, video games are a meme-hobby, and I'll just go kill myself now.
>video games are a meme-hobby
they are now
that is literally what meme means
infectious ideas and tropes
>lel, I'm a geek
>but I hate geek things
This is the skyrim audience all right
Well fuck you, nigger, you want massively overinflated budgets and dialogue trees that have to be cut down to accommodate said budgets, and that can't be adjusted or added to later in development without even more fucking cost to get the voice actors back in for another session.
My dream RPG would have generic Simlish-esque sounds over written dialogue just to give you a sense of what the NPCs sound like. That way people who make their own quest mods could just use that filler sound instead of having to get shitty amateur voice acting to not break immersion.
I like the characters the best in Oblivion tbh
even though the Radiant AI was not what was promised, it was still pretty cool and I could get attached to all the minor scrubs about in town
>needs a casual cushiony enviroment in order to stomach fantasy
maybe he's really into Sci-Fi or Industrial age Victorian shit and cosplays as Cecil Rhodes
No, Morrowind's a more traditional RPG with lots of DnD mechanics and dice-rolling in the background whereas Skyrim and Oblivion are both just Action RPGs
But they're all RPGs. I'm tired of meme arguments. And yes, your post was a meme argument. A meaningless, thoughtless, mindless statement that you know isn't true but yet it's been repeated enough times on 4chan that you feel safe and welcome posting it.
Well yes, we are talking about preferences here aside from budget and possible develop cuts. No need to get spiky.
>My dream RPG would have generic Simlish-esque sounds over written dialogue just to give you a sense of what the NPCs sound like.
Haven't thought of this, not bad either. I like how Magicka does this, it's a mix of Swedish, English and Bullshit. Great combo.
man there are people who litteraly cannot stomach any sort of fantasy or imaginative environments else it completely turns them off
a friend of mine would never even touch Harry Potter or LOTR as a kid because they involved magic and chemistry
its pretty hilarious tbh, the fact is there are millions of people who are basically Hank Hill and wont tolerate any sort of creativity in even the smallest degree
Soma babaduwaba. Toke gible torke, jowee badafuuko.
>The mud crabs are at it again! They just pinched my doberman to death, divines blast them all.
>Sounds like you got crabs trouble.
>They killed your dog?
>That's nice.. Listen I'm looking for Thalmor agents, have you noticed any around town or heard about it?
Things that turn a newcomer to Morrowind off:
>no fancy intro
Oblivion and Skyrim had long intros that gave you a nudge into your adventure along with a clear objective, compared to Morrowind which just plopped you into the world with a vague note.
>fast travel vendors
In Oblivion and Skyrim you could pull up your map at anytime and anywhere and travel to anywhere on the map. In Morrowind you actually had to travel to a vendor that offered fast travel and even then it only let you travel to adjacent cities and towns.
>no map markers
This one is pretty significant I think and self explanatory.
Again, self explanatory. But they should know about mods before judging the game for its graphics.
Combat in Oblivion and Skyrim is pretty simple. There's a regular attack and a strong attack, and you don't need to be a master with a weapon to kill things effectively. In Morrowind there's three different attacks suited to a particular weapon and developing your skills with a weapon takes some time.
>will never have games like arx fatalis, dark messiah, or gothic again becuse they're not european tolkien fantasy number 5999
Is this trolling? Am I being trolled?
I can't tell anymore.
They should have given us the option to turn on the full Radiant AI and accept the potential for it to go tits-up. That's the kind of shit I LOVE in my vidya. Entertaining AI behavior will keep me hooked for months.
Oh fuck I literally got a heart palpitation. Fucking bastard. And yes, he used to be someone with passion for the genre. He's very wealthy now.
Skyrim is better only because of the combat. It'd be nice if people made an actual competitor to TES type games, instead they spend just as much time making an open source version of Morrowind that looks just as bad and plays even worse than a decade old game.
Remember the days when we dreamed about vidya hitting mainstream? I would slap myself if i could travel back in time
OpenMW is completely open, meaning in the long run mods can change more than they ever could in vanilla. Fundamental changes in the engine. Full combat mods will be possible, as just one example.
>and then they remove the voice actor and that town completely
Fuck that, record a bunch of syllables and assemble an algorithm that strings them together. Modulate pitch and such, too, so you can have a variety of voices. And do it for each race.
I'll never fucking understand these people.
Also the morons who can't play a game unless the character is exactly like them. They're why I can't play as a carnivorous plant person or a mantis person or a floating assemblage of crystals held together by a psychic aura. No, my choices are human, human with pointy ears, or green human.
I can deal with a lot of the streamlining
SCALING the FUCKING LOOT, though, is the dumbest mechanic to have in a something that's supposed to be a sandbox. That, and heft enemy scaling, makes the world feel the same no matter which direction I head or what order I do shit in.
Not as bad as Oblivion in that regard, but still fucking dumb.
Is Todd a manlet?
He has a manlet vocie.
While playing Skyrim, I just kept thinking, "these characters are boring, the things they say are boring, and their requests are boring". I didn't enjoy talking to people or doing quests and the whole game crumbled from that.
I mean, seriously. I talk to a buff member of some warrior organization... and he tells me to take a sword to his wife or some shit. Hell no! I'm the goddamn Dragonborn. I'm not doing no fetch quest. But they're all fetch quests like that.
Not to mention, the NPCs are super dull too. No, adding a single racist or two does not add a lot of depth to your city. Putting the only prominent scene of racism directly in front of your face immediately as you walk into a city is not immersive.
And that main quest, holy shit. I didn't even realize I was fighting the final boss, it was so boring. A bunch of no-name heroes saying AGHH and slashing, while I sat back and shot the same lightning spell over and over. And then he died and I won. Jesus.
In comparison, Morrowind is very enjoyable in those areas. I know it had it's share of fetch quests, but they were encapsulated in a much more interesting world, so I didn't mind
except that fucking puzzle box. The characters were interesting and said interesting things. The racism against outlanders was very well done. Even if we talk about straight up gameplay, the brainless combat of Skyrim isn't THAT much better than the brainless combat of Morrowind. The magic in Morrowind is straight up better, though. I shouldn't even need to post that one copypasta of the fight against Dagoth Ur.
tl;dr Skyrim is boring, Morrowind is fun (imo).
>I must ask Sir dicksuckerfrancoise enriquaoi Holythree reverentthe third about where to fuck around in CityLavagnadaldatle but not beforepassing Gaylaboivomiyugy and reunite with my old comrade Sir Don Faggiotheopus of gluavandale the fourth and tell him how muchI love useless boring long names. -player, aka claudevonblavavorentgyuhulitickgulikkedge
Skyrim only does one thing right and that is shouting viking simulator, it is a very good shouting viking simulator but otherwise has nothing else.
Killing the first two story dragons are as good as the dragon fights get and the rest are usually hilariously out of place.
Even though the magic system was anemic compared to the previous games it looks cool at first and then you hit level 10+ and it takes a million firebolts to kill anything and you won't be buying any adequate spells anytime soon cause your higher tier spells do not exsist at all without having your skills at a certain level.
And then theres lol stealth archery "I guess it was nothing" - bandit with an arrow stuck in his face.
yea but if it happens off screen its not very entertaining, you only get to see the aftermath where everything is fucked and you don't know why
unless they set it so NPCs are immortal to each others attacks and can only be killed by monsters or the player, and they automatically calm down or only use fists in the city.
it would be cool to watch like a town slowly descend into being a crime filled cesspool where there are more guards on duty and regular searches/weapon confiscation
or alternatively have a shit town slowly get cleaned up and become respectable, like Bravil starting the game with a 'high hostility' or sorts, as with the waterfront, then maybe getting better over time (or worse)
I've made lots of mods before but never messing too much with the AI so im not sure it it would be feasible
>I would rather walk in a straight line towards an arrow than think for 2 seconds of my life and go on an actual adventure
I agree. While most things in Skyrim still boiled down to "do this, get that" there was a lot more depth to it than just "hey go into a dungeon full of draugr and get thing". No, like that one legion quest right, "go get the deed from this old lady". She's an old widow and that land is one of the only things she has. Her husband was murdered by an imperial soldier. And you can go do the fetch quest thing and go to the mine and solve the circumstances of her husband's death, and seek justice, or you can just straight up murder her and take the deed, or simply steal it.
That kind of choice is what RPGs are all about, and it adds so much to even simple fetch quests. I don't remember any quests from Skyrim as well as that simple single quest from Morrowind. Because they were all fucking bland and boring, but since it's magic vikings normalfags with no exposure to fantasy think it's the greatest shit ever.
To be clear: you can't mod Skyrim and then say you like Skyrim. You're literally changing the game into something new. "Skyrim" and "Modded Skyrim" are two completely different entities.
>make the dragon fights harder
Honestly, I don't care about difficulty in Skyrim. All difficulty means is I chug more potions or grind more. Wow. Its combat system just doesn't allow depth.
these games are a bore. you have to stand there and press the same button over and over. it's stupid. I much prefer combat like in kingdoms of amalur, if only the game was more difficult and had more depth.
there is absolutely no way a mod can make the dragon fights in anyway exciting not unless they have completely new behavior instead of circle, breath undodgeable fire, circle, land
>While most things in Skyrim
Did you mean Morrowind? Kind of mucks your post up a bit.
Anyway, yes, that's EXACTLY what I meant. he quests in Morrowind were stimulating and interesting and felt really natural, as if you were actually participating in a whole world. Skyrim... I don't know, it felt like a world crafted by an 8 year old that won't let you touch anything.
Because there isn't anything.
> everything is scripted and he lies about how it's not
> Sutch isn't a city but a ruined fort
> voice actor changed
> all those features cut
> countless things were not fully completed
I wonder, what did Morrowind turned out good? Todd was a shithead from the start.
If you change the way combat works then it does. If you make potions work over time instead of instantly then you have to be more careful of getting hit. If you increase the damage output of both parties and make blocking more effective then you have to pay more attention. If you increase the amount of spells you have it gives you more options. The core is flawed but you can fuck with it to make it fun.
How about giving them new abilities like summoning skeletons and leaving walls of flame on the ground after they breathe fire?
I mainly like Morrowind because you have way more options with character builds and the environment is a really unique alien feeling one. It's one of the few games where I actually felt like an outsider roaming around.
>you can't mod Skyrim and then say you like Skyrim
So I cannot dip my french fries in BBQ sauce and still claim to like french fries?
Not quite sure I understand your logic. You're only allowed to judge a game on vanilla standards?
Todd was the reason Morrowind got made in the first place. He coded the first bits of the Construction Set, led the creation of a demo, and pitched it to the board of directors as a last hurrah for their dying company.
He turned into a shit later.
>the mod community will fix it!
You'd have to wait years after release until someone would integrate spellmaking back into the game. Even now I don't think anyones done it right. Besides that, any sort of mod that fixes combat is useless because of how shitty Skyrim is programmed.
What's that? You want a parry or justframe guard mod? TOO BAD! Skyrim's shitty scripting gives you a delay of half a second before these mods even react!
To elaborate, if you eat a ham sandwich, decide you don't like the ham, and change it to turkey; you can't say you still like ham sandwiches because you're eating a turkey sandwich.
Also, if you don't like french fries without BBQ sauce, would you say "i like french fries"? No, you'd say, "I like french fries with BBQ sauce". The same thing as "I like Skyrim with mods (but not without).
Actually with mods that are already out you can have plenty of fun with Skyrim. Deadly Combat, ASIS, Apocalypse Spells, Balanced Magic, etc.
As it is, you kind of have parrying with Deadly Combat's blocking mechanics. It's not perfect but it's better than vanilla.
Your analogy is shitty. Changing the meat on a sandwich is analogous to fucking with the source code of a game. You're not switching out ham for turkey, you're putting some dijon mustard on top.
There have been a lot of complaints by ex Zenimax employees about how stuffy the company is. Who knows what sort of shit is really going on with Todd. Maybe he turned shit, or maybe Zenimax is fucking with Todd.
the worst thing about Skyrim is that everything interesting comes right at your face on the front end, but there is no staying power
40-60+ hours and the game is just dead
which is why we hate it and casuals who can only play any game for 10-20h max love the thing
>you can use a bow OR a sword!
>YOU CAN DO ANYTHING!
>Also, if you don't like french fries without BBQ sauce, would you say "i like french fries"? No, you'd say, "I like french fries with BBQ sauce". The same thing as "I like Skyrim with mods (but not without).
Plus, modding is fucking with the source code, so I dunno what you're talking about.
I have no words for morons.
I bet he was working hard only because Bethesda was almost bankrupt, and it was his last chance to prove himself capable of making a good game, after previous ones failed, after a manager with a whip was gone, Todd became cocky
>more options with character builds
You should see Daggerfall.
>dem advantage/disadvantage choices
Zenimax Online is not Bethesda Game Studio. BGS pretty much has free reign to do what they like because they bring in fucktons of cash to the parent company, Zenimax Media (and Bethesda Softworks, the publishing branch).
But yeah, as far as I can tell what Todd says goes, and people don't really challenge him or anything. He's not quite the George Lucas of vidya, but I think he's getting there.
>Plus, modding is fucking with the source code, so I dunno what you're talking about.
No, you don't know what YOU'RE talking about. You can't fuck with the source code on any of the TES games because you don't have access to it.
Stay with me here. Skyrim has:
1) A level up system
2) Character stats
3) Player Character created by player
4) A large focus on dialogue and quests
5) Items, inventory, all integrated with the world
6) Fantasy world setting/story a la most RPGs
At what point does it cease to be an RPG?
What I mean to say is... the source of the game. The source of everything you see. Like, if you legitimately modify the game you're playing, it becomes a different game. I don't mean the super-secret bethesda source code, I mean the game you interact with is different.
Are you saying Dragon Quest isn't an RPG? Because it sure doesn't have an "adaptive plot". Suffice to say, that chart is a moronic circlejerk, which is ironic considering what it implies.
If you think attributes and/or perks have anything to do with the genre a game falls under, do I have news for you.
>dungeons felt more personal
>you could get really powerful in morrowind given the right skills and stuff. feel like a goddamn milk drinks all through skyrim
>no auto level
>levitate, super jumps
also the whole background thing and simply more and more variety of skills
its the only game where a Diplomancer style PC is actually viable
not to mention more customization in game with clothing, weapons, spell making, and enchanting
Enchanting is probably the best (followed by Skyrim which is actually pretty good for enchanting) since there are the advantages and disadvantages as well and and you can make really cool RP items
like I made the Black Sword from Ultima7 with the trapped soul of a Daedra Lord that explodes people on strike and causes everyone to fear/hate you when you wield it because its power consumes you and prevents you from entering holy places without being damaged and the sword degrading.
plus the fact that when a soul bound item breaks, the monsters soul returns to attack you is pretty cool, that and you don't require soul gems to enchant, they just make shit more powerful
>tfw I listened to /v/ for once
>tfw I'm playing Nehrim: At Fate's Edge
>tfw a handful of germans in a basement somewhere blew away every bethesda game completely and utterly
To everyone who prefers morrowind:
Hurr Durr look how 4channy I am guys. How about you write your morrowind CD key on a piece of paper, put it in a pill, and shove it up your ass? have fun with your ps2 graphics and non-voiced game. Assuming you can take a break from Diablo 2, that is. Cool you like a game that came out in 2002. I'm glad you're still clinging to the past like an old dried out woman clings to old photographs of her youth. Have fun you fucking neckbeard.
I know the ruleset, but I have yet to find anyone else who does to play with. I've played the cRPG's with D&D rulesets, but not the actual tabletop version. Whether I've played the tabletop D&D or not has no affect on my argument anyways.
Nehrim is actually kind of lame and screams scrub modders
massive flat uninteresting worlds where only a small quest hub matters and there is so little content
the best "new land" mod for Oblivion is the Elsweyr-Valenwood one that adds the province
Daggerfall is way better
I tried Daggerfall in the past. The amount of bugs and random generation just doesn't sit too well with me. Plus, the gameplay wasn't very
funfor me. It was like the kind of thing you look back on and say was fun, but not something you'd enjoy while doing.
>massive flat uninteresting worlds where only a small quest hub matters and there is so little content
Wow, could you be more fucking wrong?
It's literally better than oblivion in every way and has a comparable amount of handmade content, easily over 100 hours of unique things to do
It even has more professional voice actors than oblivion, and a main quest that is three times as long, but nowhere near as boring,
what am I saying? I'm being baited and I know it
How do you guys enjoy Daggerfall? The controls were ass even customized. Towns are all copy and pasted, making it an absolute bitch to navigate, and I don't mean hard. The game is a hot mess. The other games look put together in comparison.
I really did appreciate the atmosphere and the sense of danger and exploration the game had. It gets a gold medal in those aspects.
Not even casual.
>argues that perverse derivatives of RPGs should still be called RPGs
>calling others casuals
I suppose Fighting games should be slower and more approachable. Maybe Tekken should remove sidestepping and whilerising moves. Maybe we should remove health too. Cause who says fighting games need health. 'miright. Scum.
Id also like to add that the music was very unbalanced. There are some amazingly ambient songs while others were plodding and obnoxious.
try this install
it fixes most issues and comes pre-configured with a bunch of stuff
idk, for me I love that Heretic dungeon crawling and still play it regularly
like right now I'm playing basically a modified Monk focusing on H2H fighting, mobility and Restoration.
damage is pretty solid, that's why I took restoration over the pre-set monk build so I can use buffs for bursts of strength and agility. joined the temple of julianos (for RP reasons and enchanting) and the mages guild for spell buying, through its hard to level up there it's an easy way to get early ebony shit, then sell it.
Basically just enchant everything I can with buffs for my hand to hand, criticals, speed and other shit so I can be like Bruce lee with rapid fire death punches
Most fun with a h2h build I've had in an ES game
Nothing beats performing an exorcism on a haunted house then getting one hit crit to the face on a ghost
kicks are a sweet addition too
I want to make a Ninja "Nothin Personel" style character next using only Katana blades and focusing on speed and stealth/illusion, as well as athletics so I can jump off walls and impale Orcs with my dai-katana
I liked Skyrim. But it wasn't as good as Morrowind. Well, maybe in some ways, but overall not. It didn't quite have the depth of the narrative, pacing, or just general freedom of choice. Better than Oblivion, though.
>level scaling making bandits wear daedric armor
I honestly can't fathom how anyone in the development team thought this would be acceptable. Has Todd ever said anything about this? Also, is there a good work-around that doesn't involve cheating?