Do you think this game is indeed
maskinga deeper plot or themes of death and loss? Is there some basis to these theories? Or is it just mindless fanaticism?
The developers intentionally made the game very mysterious and vague to help push its atmosphere, and there's definitely an overarching theme of loss and grief within all of the five major areas.
Shit like that ridiculous Stone Tower theory are looking way too far into simple art direction and world building that was never intended by the developers or meant to be answers, though. The fanbase also greatly exaggerates how "deep" the games narrative is when it's just very moody and creepy in comparison to the other Zelda games.
There's a difference between far-fetched theories and what the game really is without having to interpret anything.
MM is about the end of the world, about death and some other stranges things. And it does pretty well. You don't need shitty theories to understand that.
I don't get how there can be any confusion with that. Majora's Mask plays it's themes very straight. It's a game with an apocalyptic setting with people ignoring their impending doom but gettin more and more desperate as time passes on.
The "Link is actually dead xD" theories are bullshit, but the themes of it's own story Majora's Mask delivers incredibly well
Little bit of column A, little bit of column B.
There certainly are parts of the game that are much deeper than they seem at first, but it is the fanatiacism that you mention OP that raises this game overall to meme levels of ridiculousness.
The theme of the game is people are shitty and selfish and when faced with death they will be barbarians. Humanity is a joke, we're all just a bunch of liars. I'm glad this game exposes the truth.
No it's not. Noone except Sakon the thief goes out of their way to screw other people over in their final hours. And Sakon seems to be pretty oblivious to the whole world ending thing
Overall I think the game presents what it meant to very well. you sort of get a dull ache of sadness when you see the characters react to their imminent death. sort of makes you think how link would feel seeing this over and over again.
Stop falseflagging as a Majora's Mask fan so that you can keep your shitty fedora meme alive.
You don't have to be a jaded prick to enjoy it. I find myself appreciating life and people more after playing this game.
I really enjoy how apocalyptic scenarios bring everyone down to the same level again, and it cuts out the bullshit since everyone knows they're about to die. It's the kind of time when you really feel sorry for the people you've hurt and for taking the people you love for granted.
It's just mystery for the sake of mystery. The Fierce Deity is nothing more than leftover data for an Adult Link Mask that was then promoted to a 100% completion reward. Nothing more, nothing less.
Link isn't dead. He is not in a coma.
He didn't become Stalfos after or before the game.
Termina isn't Link's purgatory.
Those theories are fun to read but they are way over the top. Still we will never know who really is the Happy Mask Salesman and why he had such a terrifying mask like Majora's Mask.
It's probably all bullshit for people to cope with the fact that their favorite Zelda game has atmosphere as the only thing going for it.
That, or they intentionally put things in trying to mask the fact that most or the models were copy-pastad from OoT.
Who knows if nintendo developers purposefully made the game about the 4 stages of grief and w/e
Whats most important is that majoras mask is made up of dungeons that were cut from ocarina of time and that its a good zelda game
I wish you'd say that to Yoshiaki Koizumi's face. He'd explain to you all of the things that Majora's Mask does have going for it and ask you why you shitpost about it on the internet. You'd just blush and say you were joking and pretend that you love Nintendo just so that you wouldn't have a heart attack from embarrassment.
The game's atmosphere is good, but very overrated. Really, the only great atmosphere is in Clock Town and maybe Ikana, the rest of the game seems pretty bland. It doesn't feel very much like a real world at all, despite the more realistic schedules of the NPCs.
well call me an idiot then, because I think all the MM analysis is ridiculously superfluous. And this is coming from someone who thinks This is the best Zelda game.
considering its development (recycled models, time mechanic, short development in general, alice in wonderland-esque plot) It was just an attempt to follow-up Ocarina of Time that was (in my eyes) successful.
I really want to wait for the remake, but I was about to start this game a week ago and now since it's been announced it's very hard to wait. These fucking threads are going to push me over the edge.
I love the game and have played it multiple times, but I'm concerned that playing it just a few months before the remake comes out will make me judge the remake unfairly.
op clearly didn't play the game, it's more than just theories, the "plot or themes of death and loss" are so implied that nintendo basically smack you in the face with them.
People always bring up the Anju and Kafei quest, but rarely the event related to your pic.
It's so fucking sweet it's crazy the way that little girl cares for her father even after he's been turned into a zombie. She must be so scared living out in the desert alone like that, not knowing what will become of her father, but really being strong to keep him and herself safe.
The way she breaks down when she sees her father back to normal is so beautiful my chest feels tight just thinking about it.
>start of the game shows link aimlessly wandering through a neverending forest, until he somehow falls down a neverending hole.>
>Gets greeted with "oh my, you've met with a terrible fate havent you". And no, he didnt mean becoming a deku. Because he repeats that same sentence every time.
>Elegy of emptiness creates morbid tombstone like statues of whatever form link is in, it will only work on the transformation mask, which are dead people. So why does the elegy also work on link when he isnt transformed?
>Termina(l), very subtle Nintendo
>When link fails, you see him getting devoured by hellfire
>Link meets the same people he met in hyrule, and somehow feels that he needs to help them. This is because he knows he failed them in Life because he couldnt beat ganon
>The last part of the game literally has you crossing Ikana, THE VALLEY OF DEATH, climing the tower towards heaven, gaining ENlightENMENT (arrows) and becomes ready to face his fate.
Yeah he's totally not dead and in purgatory. THe hero's shade in TP even confirms this by saying that he failed to pass on his guidance in life.
Because he died. Link was in adult form when he fought Ganon, but his mind was still that of a child, which is why he is still a child in his purgatory but his skeleton shade is an adult.
>Do you think this game is indeed masking a deeper plot or themes of death and loss?
It's not, that just internet fan-fiction. But it does have this: http://www.zeldauniverse.net/2006/11/03/the-stone-tower-why-termina-was-doomed/
>nintendo basically smack you in the face with them.
off the top of my head
the guy with the fox mask who was turned into a child and lost his love that way
this girl and her dad you posted
the deku butler's son / deku mask
the quest around the Zora mask
the quest around the Goron mask
even the guy in who's trapped in the fucking toilet of the hotel
the Ikana king
Link and Navi even
the girl on the farm with the ghosts
the dojo sword fighter guy who literally loses faith in himself by the end of day 3
it's so glaring, these are no theories, it's just the entire fucking game revolves around loss
>he failed them in Life because he couldnt beat ganon
But he did beat Ganon, this is the child timeline where he went back and got the dorf sealed away. All the horror of the adult timeline never happened.
The thing is, now no one knows Link is a hero. All his actions mean nothing to everyone else, Majora's Mask just takes this and runs with it.
>people trying to find symbolism in half the shit in this game
Just deep reaching as usual
Everything that happens is blatantly obvious but muh "feels" faggots try to turn something into something it isnt
Why does he want to crash the moon?
with no survivors?
There are 2 timelines. Nintendo claims MM is happening in the timeline where Link beat Ganondorf in OOT but what if it actually takes place in the other one, where Link is defeated?
Yep. I mean the game is okay and all but its fanbase really tries to look too deep into it most of the time. Doesn't help that some were attarcted to it because of that BEN shit a couple years back.
It absolutely has a theme of death and loss, just not the death of Link. Everywhere you go, people are affected by the moon that's about to fall, and various other personal problems you can help them with. Everything from Lulu who lost her eggs, to Kafei reuniting Anju, to Cremia letting her sister, Romani, sleep in her bed and drink alcoholic milk to try and ease the coming end. Death and loss are the most prominent themes in MM, and that's part of what gives it its atmosphere.
I love MM but the fanbase totally sucks. What annoys me is how much they call the game "dark", when in reality it's a rather tender, humanist game and is more surrealist than dark.
"Link is dead all along" is one of those theories that is so retarded that I have no idea how it gained any traction. The very first lines in the game are about how Link is searching for a precious friend he lost, so how do the themes of loss and coping with loss apply to Link? He's obviously dead and has to get over his own death!
I just looked up what the opening said and it says this :
"In the land of Hyrule, there echoes a legend. A legend held dearly by the Royal Family that tells of a boy... A boy who, after battling evil and saving Hyrule, crept away from the land that had made him a legend... Done with the battles he once waged across time, he embarked on a journey. A secret and personal journey... A journey in search of a beloved and invaluable friend... A friend with whom he parted ways when he finally fulfilled his heroic destiny and took his place among legends..."
What if Link and Ganon both died in the battle? Link still saved Hyrule and "took his place among legends" but had to part ways with Navi because of his death.
As this anon said >>271336798
Some of it is pretty fucking blatant.
Speaking of themes, everyone talks about focus on loss and grief, but I never see much talk about duality, balance and cycle of life messages that the game portrays.
That's not a problem with the fanbase as much as it is a problem with people in society in general. People tend to regard anything that has to do with mortality as dark or depressing.
Both. It has themes of loss and death, but there is not a hidden story to theorize about. It's about the experience of playing it, about seeing the big world face destruction and respond in different ways. It's meant to make you, the player, face those situations as well. Thats why it works as a dark game. It's not just about trying to make things dark and scary.
Well, OoT 3D (which similarly was released early in the same year as a mainline 3D Zelda [SS]) was released in June of 2011. I think that's Summer, but Nintendo claims MM3D will be in the Spring which starts in February. So basically who knows?
Well, that's because supporting the idea that the game has a message about irreparable loss and dealing with it is easy because it comes up so often. I'm sure you can find many interpretations and ideas, but you'd have to find evidence that they were meant to be developed.
You seemed to have missed the post in which he very intelligently elaborated on his point and theory with a counterargument visa vis the timeline placement. Here, i'll link you to it and also provided a brief summary.
>BUT WHAT IF IT DIDNT??
>MM is about the end of the world, about death and some other stranges things. And it does pretty well. You don't need shitty theories to understand that.
God this is so correct.
These assholes with their ten page "theories" are missing the forest for the trees. Majora's Mask has got all the symbolism, but there is no hidden meaning to it.
There are plenty of subtle indications that Link was very depressed or even suicidal before he was transported to Termina. The Lost Woods are inspired by Japan's Aokigahara forest, after all.
We'll never really know the true intentions behind Majora's Mask and if the theories surrounding death have any significance, since it was all written by Koizumi - who left the Zelda team around WW's development. For all we know, the Hero's Shade stuff may have never happened if he was still working as a co-director and a writer for TP.
Sort of like how the Capcom games were never really meant to fit into a timeline, because the developers never really cared for it.
>What if Link and Ganon both died in the battle? Link still saved Hyrule and "took his place among legends" but had to part ways with Navi because of his death.
Hyrule Historia specifically says that there's a third timeline that ALTTP and the original two games are supposed to take place in that was caused by Link dying in the battle against Ganondorf. T
echnically, this IS possible, but people forget that Majora's Mask tells you in the first five seconds of the game that Link is supposed to be alive because the story we're going to hear is one treasured by the royal family just as dearly as the story of OOT. Someone had to have came back from Termina to tell them about Link's story, whether it was Skull Kid, the Happy Mask Salesman, or Link himself.
>forgetting that TP!Link was explicitly said to be a blood descendent of OOT!Link, which wouldn't be possible if Link was dead
>forgetting that adults who get lost in the Lost Woods and die turn into SKULL KIDS, not Stalfos so saying that the Hero's Shade only exists because Link turned into one is ridiculous
>forgetting that Link knows the Lost Woods like the back of his own hand because he fucking lived in them his entire life
In short, there is absolutely no way the Link is Dead theory would work, not unless we're talking about it taking place during that third timeline as a hypothetical dream before death and even then it's fanfiction tier.
>Muh made up timeline is infallible.
You do realize that they pulled that timeline out of their asses and that it has been proven to be incorrect, right?
And irregardless, Link could have defeated ganon and still died in the progress.
>>forgetting that adults who get lost in the Lost Woods and die turn into SKULL KIDS, not Stalfos so saying that the Hero's Shade only exists because Link turned into one is ridiculous
Whoops, typoed hard here.
I meant to say that adults turn into Stalfos, but kids turn into Skull Kids. Link wouldn't have turned into a Stalfos because he's a kid.
The third timeline existing was a necessary move in order to retain pre-OoT Zelda games as canon.
Because Ganon is alive and sealed in the Sacred Realm in ALTTP, whereas in Twilight Princess, he was killed, not sent to the Sacred Realm. In Wind Waker, he escaped the Sacred Realm and then was killed.
Without a third timeline, ALTTP (thus, LA, LoZ, and AOL) wouldn't fit anywhere.
I don't know, I can see how it came to be. I remember watching a YT video about it and going "huh, that's pretty interesting". I just never took it to heart, especially since in TP, the Hero's Shade straight out tells TP Link that they're from the same bloodline; making the fact that OoT / MM Link grew to be an adult and father a child canon.
But Link defeated Ganondorf. He went out to look for Navi, tumbled "down the rabbit hole" and saved Termina. It's the equivalent of Lorule, it's somewhat of a parallel kingdom to Hyrule. Hell, it could even have just been a weird experience like in Link's Awakening. He wasn't dead.
Because link in ocarina of time also was "related" to the hero of time, his parents died in a war, and he ended up in the kokiri village. Did you even fucking play the game you cockslap shitstain?. The hero of time existed prior to link's birth
This is why I can never take any of these theories seriously. They disregard lore completely.
Plus, Link has the Triforce of Courage, so wouldn't that protect him from the magic in the Lost Woods?
I think I remember you from the last thread we had about this, and you went on about how the Bomber Kids were supposed to be a representation of Link mourning his lost childhood or some shit.
Even if you're not that guy, you still have the same autistic logic as him.
>I meant to say that adults turn into Stalfos, but kids turn into Skull Kids. Link wouldn't have turned into a Stalfos because he's a kid.
This. This is something people always seem to forget.
How anyone could even comprehend a 12-year old kind turning into a 7-foot adult stalfos knight in full armor is beyond me.
Hell, if HH didn't exist then there'd be a higher chance of TP's skull kid being him, not the shade. He was also kind of a weird enigma in the game.
People taking this Stalfos shit seriously are stupid.
What they meant was:
If you venture into the Lost Woods without a fairy to guide you, you will be lost and die. When you die your turn into a skeleton. Stalfos are skeletons.It's Kokiri folklore, never a real plot point.
How can you disregard "Terminus" when it obviously derives from that same latin you bring up?
I don't understand what you mean. Get over what? I'm not the guy who was tryna say Nintendo lied about the timelines. That guy's idea that it might be in a different timeline is fucking stupid, and that's what I meant. His argument was "What if they lied?"
Nintendo has made an official statement saying so. Therefore, there is no point in wasting your time speculating how all the games connect, because they don't. The series is exactly what the name says it is: a legend that is told by different people, that evolves as time goes on. That's why it's always a new character but with many similarities.
NOW FUCK OFF
The following Zelda games are sequels, and thus the Link in those games are the same.
Zelda I and II
A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening
Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask
Oracle of Seasons and Oracle of Ages (duh)
Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass
Other than that, there is no connection between all the games of the Zelda series, other than the obvious arcs (like Ocarina of Time to Wind Waker). Nintendo has made an official statement saying so. Therefore, there is no point in wasting your time speculating how all the games connect, because they don't. The series is exactly what the name says it is: a legend that is told by different people, that evolves as time goes on. That's why it's always a new character but with many similarities.
No, they say:
>Anybody who comes into the forest will be lost. Everybody will become a Stalfos. Everybody, Stalfos
That's what Fado says in OOT. He says that you just have to be lost to become one.
However, according to Navi's comment when you target a Skull Kid:
>Is this what happens to kids who wander into the forest? It looks like he doesn't like grownups.
So yeah, there IS a difference.
Play A Link To The Past. The Knights of Hyrule protected the Sages who sealed Ganondorf away in the Sacred Realm. Apparently after kidnapping and killing both Zelda and Link to take their Triforce pieces, a bit of time passed while Ganondorf built up an army and prepared to invade.
It makes no sense for Link to be "terminal" as in an illness; if he died after fighting Ganon or whatever this would be already Purgatory, and therefore he'd be already dead. He wouldn't be terminal either if he was in a state between life and death - he's not alive anymore.
I'm all for theories, but I honestly believe the name refers to the impending doom of the world and all life, not to Link himself. I'm not debating the rest of your post either.
>>Is this what happens to kids who wander into the forest? It looks like he doesn't like grownups.
Obviously, a bit of retconning on Nintendo's part when you learn that Skull Kid actually originated from Termina, and probably was always a Skull Kid
>Anybody who comes into the forest will be lost. Everybody will become a Stalfos. Everybody, Stalfos
>Link has lived in the forest for seven or ten years depending on how old you think he is in OOT without turning into anything
>Link is able to wander around them with Epona in the beginning of MM with no problem
>Link could have shagged someone when he was in adult form. But thats irrelevant anyway, as you're wrong. he said he was related to the hero of time. OOT link was related to the hero of time, he was NOT the original hero of time. That legend existed well before link was even born.
>Link fought ganon as an adult, if he lost and wandered into the lost woods, he would become a Stalfos, I seriously doubt he'd bother to put the master sword back in the pedestal.
>You dont even know what you're talking about. No one lives in the fucking lost woods you smegmaslurper. he lived in THE KOKIRI FOREST AND INHABITANTS ARE EXPLICITLY WARNED TO NOT WANDER INTO THE FUCKING LOST WOODS.
I understand that you're a stupid bitch.
I just corrected you in my greentext, reminding you that the reason there is a time limit is because the moon crashes into everyone and kills them all at the end of it.
If it is your argument that it's "Terminus" and not "Terminal" and that's why it has nothing to do with death, you're going to have to do better than that.
I've only skimmed over the last few posts in this thread and I didn't see anyone saying anytihng to the contrary, other than that the Stalfos in TP is OoT Link, which has been confirmed hasn't it?
No, it's kids who turn into skull kids. Even Navi hypothesizes this when you z-target a skull kid. It's officially confirmed in the Japanese translation of the game, thought I'm too lazy to find sources at the moment.
Speaking of TP's Skull Kid, I remember reading some theories about it and they were pretty interesting. Like how it's so unusual that he's the only one guarding the temple and how he knows both Saria's song and Zelda's lullaby. Also the shape of the leaf on his back kind of resembles the hero's shield, the blue earrings, so on and so forth. But who cares, neither the stalfos theory or the the skull kid theory are canon.
TLDR/ I admit that the timeline is completly pulled out of Miyamoto's wrinkled anus and as such can be safely disregarded.
See above and below, the timeline is bullshit made up garbage.
Devs dont know their own lore half of the time. See blizzard and their knowledge of Falstad.
>OOT link was related to the hero of time, he was NOT the original hero of time. That legend existed well before link was even born.
Oh for fucks sake
>clearly doesn't know the difference between the adult and child timelines
>doesn't know the Stalfos/Skull Kid lore which OOT fucking flat out tells you
>is a big enough mongoloid not to know that Kokiri Village and the Lost Woods are connected, they're one in the same, the kids play in the woods all the time including Link
Did you even play OOT or what
i like the donkey kong timeline better
Yeah, this. Anyone who's worked on a writing team or developed a game could tell you that fan theories consistently over-complicate the narrative and read far too deeply into things. The human mind's ability to lay down patterns in white noise is amazing and beautiful, but ultimately useless more often than not.
Oh really, its a shame then that Skyward sword uses the same clothes, and is supposedly the first ever in the timeline, completely taking a shit over your argument.
too bad that the hero of time existed prior to Link's birth in OOT. There have clearly been other heroes of time, considering certain people are fucking well aware of the master sword and its time traveling capabilities.
Jesus Christ. I'm really gonna have to up my defense on this unconfirmed fanfiction. Majora's Mask is about death, but not about that Link is Dead bullshit. Several other anons mentioned this already, please read it again.
Kokiri Forest is an offshoot of the Lost Woods that's protected under the Deku Tree's magic.
Kokiri had guardian fairies to protect themselves from the Lost Wood's magic, Link didn't until he got one. Simple as that.
Skyward Sword uses a Knight's Outfit. They say so in the beginning.
And prove that the hero of time existed prior. Go ahead, one quote or screenshot proving your stupidity correct.
Again, same inbred cunt who clearly hasnt played the fucking game. Link lived IN THE KOKIRI WOODS.
Secondly, you cant change into somethign when you're alraedy dead and in purgatory.
I don't think Link is dead in Majora's Mask. You must have me confused with someone else. I just took issue with you saying that Termina has nothing to do with the word "terminal" because it really comes from the Latin "terminus". You can't call that guy stupid for his theory when you act like a ridiculous idiot like that.
I know that Dolphin lets you use the Xbox Controller without having to do a bunch of dumb bullshit, and lets you map the buttons, but gamecube emulation and most emulation revolving around 3D games is very hard on your computer. So depends on your rig.
The timeline was compiled by and approved by Eiji Aonuma who is one of the people closest to the franchise.
You are fucking retarded. The timeline listed above is the official Zelda timeline as of 2011.
It kinda makes sense though, it establishes that Demise and Link are to be continuously reincarnated in battle.
>Saying the game has nothing to do with death
I didn't imply that. In fact, I said I was not debating the rest of your points, I just found that one to be stretching it. Majora's Mask is definitely about death. I'm just not convinced at all that "Termina" relates to Link's own life or death.
This is not a really meaningful discussion anyway, seeing we agree on the main point.
I think people will read too deeply into anything that even looks the tiniest bit mysterious or deep. There's a great documentary on The Shining out there called Room 237 about all these people coming up with insane theories about the "hidden meanings" in the movie, including how it's supposed to be an allegory for the Holocaust because of the brand of typewriter Jack Nicholson writes on in the movie.
Majora's Mask fans are a lot like that. They take a well-written (by Zelda standards) game with pretty straightforward themes about loss and healing and turn it into this sweeping, Kubrick-esque drama that just makes the game look really overwrought and silly.
The only theory I believe holds any credit is the stages of grief one, but only because I believe it applies to Navi. Towards the end, the final giant tells Tatl to "forgive your friend". That could mean one of three things: he wants Tatl to forgive Skull Kid, he wants Skull Kid to forgive the giants, or he wants Link to forgive Navi for abandoning him. All three ideas work very well within the context of the story's biggest themes, which are healing and hope.
You use a howling stone that has the spiritual stones engraved on them instead of the usual Sheikah symbol. It summons the skull kid instead of the shade.
Intriguing stuff either way.
>A journey in search of a beloved and invaluable friend
what friend are we talking about here?
when i played this as a
teenager, I always assumed they meant Epona because she gets stolen in the opening scene, but "a beloved and invaluable friend whit whom he parted ways..." sound pretty hardcore for a horse.
Explain then how there are sages that are aware that releasing the Master sword allows timetravel, you cant know that without having seen it, ergo, someone else was a hero of time prior to link. Fuck, it could even have been links dad, who is never shown but died durign a battle for Hyrule Castle while his mother fled with Link as a baby, and died of her wounds close to the Deku Tree
And the WoW lore was made up by Metzen, and he didnt know what happened to one of the important lore characters.
People fuck up. And there was never a clear timeline in the first place. Why wont you just admit that the timeline is a bunch of bollocks.
Majora's Mask 3D being announced is the best thing that ever happened to /v/ as far as I'm concerned. At least for a while, I can talk about my favorite game again with all of you.
I love you all.
>including how it's supposed to be an allegory for the Holocaust because of the brand of typewriter Jack Nicholson writes on in the movie
nice to know autism has existed since the 80s
>because he didnt.
Ah yes, the simpler explanation being "they just knew the sword allowed time travel and didnt think for a second that it was a laod of horseshit. Nah, no need to confirm this."
The Master Sword doesn't allow time travel all the time. If if did, Link would've been transported back in time the moment he put the Master Sword back into the pedestal in Twilight Princess.
And yes, I'm aware it opens a portal to the dungeon back in time, but that's not the same as what happens when you use it in OOT.
>Why wont you just admit that the timeline is a bunch of bollocks.
It is. That's the point I'm trying to prove here. Hand an IP over to different people and they'll do different things to it, sometimes that involves retconning the canon lore or exchanging the previous person's intentions with ideas of their own.
As you've already said, people fuck up and they change things.
Speaking as a rather successful filmmaker who put out some pretty popular films a few years back, I'll let you know that many writers and directors that I know actually do spend a lot of time making sure even the most retardedly small and seemingly insignificant detail has a deeper meaning or fits with bigger themes.
One of my films was discussed on an international level and it was exciting that some people actually figured out some of the deeper meanings that I was going for, but of course there are always people who say that they're reading too far into it.
Interesting to watch and I felt kind of like I wished I could help them, but I felt like I'd be ruining the magic to interfere with the discussion.
Because the timeline actually makes sense when you look at it and Eiji Aonuma was very closely connected to almost all the games in important roles. I don't play WoW so I don't know or care about what that incident was, but I don't see how you can say it's "bollocks" when it makes a shit ton of sense.
It's okay to be wrong, Anon.
>Speaking as a rather successful filmmaker who put out some pretty popular films a few years back
What movies did you make? And don't be coy. We have people pretending to be game devs all the time on here, I'm sure no one would really care if you said you were Von Trier or something.
Sorry, buddy, I know you'll just tell me to fuck myself, but the most I'll give you is that I was once on standby to be interviewed by Letterman if more important guests couldn't make it. This was back in 2001. That information is out there somewhere if you want to spend a few hours digging for it ;)
>Speaking as a rather successful filmmaker who put out some pretty popular films a few years back,
Give us some clues.
Assuming that you're telling the truth, it's kind of neat to know that people such as yourself are Zelda fans. Not surprising I suppose, but interesting nonetheless.
I've never seen him in the public spotlight except for Iwata Asks.
Anyway, he used to do art, story and design for Zelda games starting with ALttP. Most of this is from the wikipedia article.
The most impressive credits are probably coming up with Link's Awakening's story, doing co-directorial work on Majora's Mask including coming up with the entire premise and main gameplay element of the three day cycle, and getting pulled off to work on other stuff while Aonuma ran Wind Waker into the ground.
Can someone explain to me why navi was replaced with another fairy? I get she was lost and stuff but Nintendo could have made this game without this tidbit perfectly fine. I dont think it makes very much sense to replace her, unless there is some deeper meaning to it.
Give me a hint on who the guest ended up being for the episode you were on, or a hint about a movie you made.
Also curious to know what makes someone like you like Zelda, in particular MM.
Yeah, the game is presumably about Link losing Navi and looking for her.
If you found her the game wouldn't really have that meaning.
Also everyone hated Navi because her sound clips and personality was annoying, so they replaced her with a tsundere because they thought it'd be more popular.
Nigga he got lost in the woods and became a Stalfos.
Someone post that picture of link talking to the Milk bar owner on the final day. It was on my mind all day at work
>Whenever Link masturbates beind a tree or something Tatl always complains and makes fun of him, yet watches attentively every time and obviously enjoys it
>Navi would just get embarrassed and avert her gaze and wait patiently until he finished
Are we ever going to find out what the Happy Mask Salesman was?
Also, what exactly WAS Majora? The collective embodiment of negativity and evil the Ancient Tribe channeled into the mask? A god? Or something else? It was sentient and referred to itself as "I", so I always assumed it was some kind of singular entity.
Some people assumed that Ganon's magic mortally wounded her and she left without notice so that Link wouldn't get too upset.
Others think that Navi didn't care, but Link became so desperate and messed up after MM that he was willing to find her, if only because she's the only person who remembers what he went through.
Fanfiction theories nonetheless. No concrete or canon explanations.
Sounds about right.
I think the only reason I like Tatl so much is because I read this fanfiction years and years ago that made her a much better character. It was a retelling of Majora's Mask and made her less abrasive and more mischievous.
That, and she's also got a bit of New Game+-ish dialog where she warms up to Link after you beat everything.
I dont know. Link could have found Navi in Termina or there could have been some easier thing to make up. Nintendo actually went out of their way and replaced her, with something that does exactly the same. It could have been a lot simpler than the story we have now. I always thought Nintendo had some deeper story that they're not telling us. Maybe just to make you feel even more alone in a strange place, without the only friend thats been through it all with you. But it could have a lot deeper meaning.
I think "she didn't care" is the most likely out of all of these. Remember, she only stuck around because the Great Deku Tree told her to help Link on his quest. Once it was over, so was her obligation to stay because he wasn't a real Kokiri.
She's a fairy. Traditionally, fairies are fickle, mischievous creatures, so yeah, it fits with her character. Probably why there's only been two fairy helpers in the series, and one of them is an outright bitch who steals and lies for fun (Tatl).
>Majora is a divine sentence sent by the gods to be carried out
>Majora was sent by the goddesses to punish Termina I know this because I believe in that autistic Stone Tower theory
This is what we call reading too deeply into things that don't exist.
Nah man, you're reading too much into it.
You're like those english teachers in high school who would make you analyze ever last detail of a book. Sometimes the drapes are just fucking blue, am I right?
It's kinda stretching a bit but this was the first commercial for Pikmin
All about following loyally and selfless self sacrifice. It's a very Japanese mentality
While I do like Tatl, best companion is still Midna.
If we're going by the silly "Link is dead" theories, then the Mask Salesman is a guide into the afterlife, perhaps even a kind of dosojin if we're going by Japanese terms and culture.
I've always seen Majora as the embodiment of inevitable death, or the personification of our inner demons, particularly childish and selfish desires. Regarding Link, his inability to let go of past relationships in favor of moving on and finding new ones.
Damn, that's dark.
I always suspected that Pikmin was a social commentary about the Japanese workforce or the manipulated lower class masses, but this just confirms it.
In a way I hold that against Midna. I like Tatl, because she's less of a part of the story, though not as annoying as Navi who is robotic and naggy.
Tatl is a nice balance of being pleasant and having a full personality, but not interjecting herself too deeply into the player experience.
Skelly ghosts cannot be two things anon
They are Stalfos in Zelda
YWell, it never specifically says it's the same sword, they're just both called a Kokiri Sword, because they're from the Kokiri Forest. In the same way you can have two completely different looking French Swords or Gerudo Swords.
Although that's kinda stretching it and making a lot of assumptions.
>Goes into the lost woods without a fairy
>People who go into the lost woods without a fairy get lost
>Kids become skull kids
>Adults become stalfos
>Link falls down a huge hole
>Ends up in a weird alternate dimension called "Termina"
If he didnt die
Somebody sure did
The thing that doesnt make sense is Link was still a kid
He wouldnt turn into a Stalfos, he would become a skull kid
Absolutely. I sort of look at Fi as Navi on steroids. I think a simliar paralel can be drawn with Navi and Midna. Each of the latter is similar in ways to the former, but gets a lot more screen time. Midna actually has a personality, though in my opinion it can be a little much, and Fi won't shut up about your fucking batteries for hours before they actually die and actually pushed my brother over the edge to suicide two years ago.
Really? You can explain the sword, but you can't explain the shield?
There's no mystery behind the Hero's Shield. It's a different shield to the Hylian Shield, that's all, likely given to him for informing the Royal Family of Ganondorf's intentions after he returned to the past.
What IS a mystery is how the Clock Town General Store sells them wholesale.
Irrelevant, Link is dead, hi mwanderign that forest and fallign down the hole is part of his subconcious, and while he may have died with the body of an adult due to the time travel shit, his mind was still that if a kid.
Him being dead is also the only valid reason why he "lost" navi.
isnt it funny how Taetl and totl are the only 2 fairies that actually look like Link's image of fairies? The other ones look weird and orange
Hint, they're both part of link's subconcious. Taetl is the part that he hated, the part that always annoyed him and reprimanded him. Totl is the nice part that helped him out alot.
Well, in Midna's case, the entire plot is about her. She's the headlining character, moreso than even Link. I'm okay with that though, because it was a little different, at least until Ganondorf showed up anyway.
Navi is almost entirely removed from the plot. Moreso than any Zelda companion since.
The only reason Navi and Link met was because the Deku Tree was fucked and sent Navi to awoken Link to come save him.
When Zelda sent Link back in time, the Deku Tree was saved from Ganon's curse so Navi never met Link in the first place.
While you're wrong and dumb for a lot of reasons, I additionally wanted to point out that the fairies you can find that aren't part of the Great Fairies are all the pink glowing bottle-able balls of light from OoT.
Do you start the game with the shield?
Regardless, I always believed that the lack of the Triforce on the shield was another example of parallel universe wackiness. The same way all the people Link knew exist there but are different characters, the shield exists there too but lacks the Triforce which is a symbol apparently only known to or respected by people of Hyrule.
It's fairly likely that Link was sent back to a point where Ganondorf had already cursed the Deku Tree.
If she had sent him back earlier than that, there'd be two Links and two Navis running around.
Learn to time travel mechanics
If we're going by that, then isn't likely that Skull Kid, Tingle, Kafai, and maybe the Fierce Deity represent certain aspects of himself?
Tingle representing childhood nostalgia, the Skull Kid is the resentment he felt after losing his friends, Kafei is the confusion he had from gaining the mentality and responsibilities of an adult after OoT, Fierce Deity being the personification of his heroic deeds and sacrifice and so on?
And to a further extent, the transformation masks?
We talked about it plenty, it's a very popular game on /v/.
According to a fairly recent survey, it's /v/'s favorite game of all time.
I'd love to know the confidence interval on that.
The anger that welled within me when I read that Iwata Asks where Koizumi asked Aonuma to trade Zelda for Mario for a game and Aonuma laughs and rejects him without even considering it.
Reminder that Link did not die on Termina nor the forest and he came back to Hyrule and became a knight.
Anything else is bullshit.
But what would the point of that be? Wouldn't Link just relive everything that happened to him?
I see it as:
>Link is sent back in time, BEFORE Navi.
>Link knows Navi came from somewhere in the Kokiri Forest.
>Goes looking for her in Lost Forest.
>Skull Kid / Death
The only hole in that theory is that the Deku Tree is very easy to locate...
Mido confirmed for true village
Whenever I read who contributed what to certain Zelda games, I find consistently that the guy with the coolest ideas was Koizumi, and the guy that implements things I hate is Anouma. Not to say Anouma has done literally nothing right, but I wish Koizumi wasn't forced to do Mario
It did win that one strawpoll that had over 2000 voters on it about the favorite Zelda game period.
It's my personal favorite game of all time. But I can totally understand if it isn't others
Koizumi was a genius with Zelda and a genius with Mario. I think they have Koizumi heading Mario because in the end it's Nintendo's most important franchise. They just can't have him working on both at once.
The thought of them trading off for a game is fucking great though, and Aonuma probably laughed it off because he knows Koizumi would make a better Zelda and that Aonuma would probably fuck up Mario.
Over the years, I've always gotten the impression that Aonuma and Koizumi never liked each other. I think Aonuma is jealous of Koizumi's talent, while Koizumi is jealous of Aonuma's position. Co-directing probably didn't work so well between them.
I'd be cool with a Mario spinoff by Anouma, and a Zelda game directed by Koizumi. Maybe a not-huge Zelda like MM was. Like if they tried the same scenario where they did an 1.5-2 year dev time for the Zelda after Zelda U, make it so its not as hyped or something, give Koizumi more creative freedoms
Link had the Kokiri sword strengthened with a new grip and hilt to replace the shitty wood, and had a shield similar to but not exactly like the Hylian Shield made so he could effectively use it, since the Hylian Shield was too big for him as a kid.
No real mystery. Zelda probably offered him assistance on his quest to find Navi, and he asked for weapons that would suit him.
>yfw Termina is littered with Triforces
>There's even one right in front of your face when you first enter Clock Town
I found it really weird that Aonuma was talking about how the theme for Zelda U was rethinking the conventions of the series.
Because they should've just given it to Koizumi, whose beloved Zelda titles have nothing to do with Zelda or Ganondorf or all of the typical stuff, with unique premises and gameplay.
>The only hole in that theory is that the Deku Tree is very easy to locate...
For Link who was raised by Kokiri, of course the Deku Tree would be easy to locate. He'd know where it is and how to get there. That may not be the case for some random Hylian entering the woods for the first time.
Thats just there because the game has no post-game. Its just like that in TP when, after you defeat Ganondorf, you respawn in front of cursed Hyrule Castle as wolf link with Midna on your back.
>Royal family is the red wing protecting the triforce who would be Link
Yeah, even if I have more problems with some entries than othes and even have some beef with some problems that persist throughout each game, I still find something I could really enjoy in almost all of them.
Really wish they would ramp up the puzzle difficulty more though. Make some puzzles at least like Alundra's.
I remember a few Majora's Mask theory articles on Zelda Informer that were pretty good. But like >>271337002 said, it's all fan speculation. Just be glad that Majora's Mask is not grimdark like UndyingNephalim's Hyrule Total War mod.
The transformation masks represent the 5 stages of grief.
Denial: humand refuse to believe that the moon will actually crash.
Anger: Deku king is angry at a monkey who he claims kidnapped the princess
Bargaining: Darmani tries to bargain with link, asking him to save his goron tribe
Disconnection: Lulu lost Mikal, and her eggs, and she copes with it by secluding herself, gazing out at the sea
Acceptance: ikana valley, a place of death, and where people have accept that as a fact. Daughter with gobdo dad, Sharp brothers, the Garo.
And whatyou've said is certainly possible. Most new characters in MM are link's subconcious, like the bomber kids are links wish for a normal childhood, he was considered an outcast by most of the kokiri. Why is he playing hide and seek and tag with them when he needs to stop the moon? the grandmother in the Inn is his desire for a family; as he never knew his.
>So you think Zelda sent Link all the way back to the day he was born?
She sent him back his childhood, after he had gotten the Kokiri's emerald, but before he met her and went off to collect the Goron's Ruby.
>How did Link get with the Kokiri anyway?
It's explained during a cutscene with a the Deku Tree Sprout. Did you even play the game?
All ya niggas waiting to see dem swords in new graphics?
Wow, he does.
Also holy shit, the Spaceworld Tech Demo. Those were the days.
I meant how can I resist! I beat OoT again just before the announcement because I was planning on playing MM again and had been putting it off specifically in case a remake was announced. My timing was the worst.
His parents lived in Hyrule castle, his dad was a hero (of time) and died during a castle siege ( it was implied he faught Ganon, but never confirmed), durign the battle his mother took link as a baby and fled across the Hyrule field, until the finally died of her wounds in the kokiri forest, where the deku tree took link and raised him.
>world is going to end
>world is called "termina", which literally means "end" or "termination" in latin and latin-derived languages
>game has a darker atmosphere than other zelda titles
>happy mask salesman in its entirety
>horrifying mask animations
>the whole beginning in the forest
If you need "analysis" for this, when it is directly shown in the main portions of the game (and can't be skipped), I think you should probably drop videogames and embrace the guido's life.
I know I was. I was never scared playing the game as a kid, except for some parts in Ikana, but that final boss fight scared the shit out of me.
>that trippy boss room
>those screeching noises it made
Only thing that ruined it was that it wasn't hard enough. Hopefully they'll fix this in the remake, or give it a 4th form that will actually make the Fierce Deity Mask useful.
>that Ghirahim Sword
The fact that the Fierce Deity mask made Majora completely irrelevant as a boss fight, was ok with me as a statement of that mask just being way more powerful than Majora's bitch ass negative energy. It's kind of like if you healed everyone you've overcome all the bullshit Majora tried to take advantage of and can now ape his face to seal it in.
I think it made a statement.
I found it's final form to be pretty disturbing.
It's an androgynous demon that makes high-pitched squealing noises while whipping you with its tentacle arms. Don' know what the fuck they were trying to allude to with that form.
>there are people out there who debate that this was supposed to be a horror game
Just watch the commercials Nintendo released for it, there's no way they didn't know what they were marketing.
What are you talking about?
There are four swords in Link to the Past.
There are also four swords in Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons.
There's also four swords in
There's five swords in Wind Waker.
There's also five swords in Minish Cap.
Finally, Skyward Sword has six swords.
4 if you count the Giants knife I guess.
But if you're counting that you might as well count the Fierce Deity sword.
recolors of the master sword aren't different swords
I'm ok with that, but it still made the fight pretty unfulfilling, especially if it was your first playthrough. When you unlock the mask for the first time, the game locks you into using it for the final boss fight, no way around it.
It made for a pretty awful fight on my first go through back when I was 11.
marketing is horseshit in the west
Consumers are so up their own asses about feeling like badasses that marketers have no choice but to pander to that desire, even in lighthearted and fantasy games
Which is kind of weird. It's got pretty horrifying moments, like the mask transformations (I always skipped the fucking Zora transformation as a kid, Christ), but I thought it wasn't as scary as Ocarina of Time back then.
>when you unlock the mask for the first time the game locks you into using it
I'm 90% sure that's false. I distinctly remember getting the mask, then not using it to beat Majora.
It has been a while and maybe I'm just misremembering though
>Nintendo will never be this bold and take risks with their popular franchises again
90s/early 2000s Nintendo was based as fuck. They weren't afraid of scaring the shit out of kids with their games.
Which of the swords in MM are recolors of the kokiri sword?
Razor sword has an entirely different model
Well yeah, but the person I replied to stated you HAD to wear it the first time you unlock it
You can take the FD mask off any time you want, dingleberry.
You have the Kokiri Sword reforged. You have the Master Sword reforged.
And because the game isn't advanced enough to use a completely new sprite it doesn't count? Wow.
The only risk was the gimmicky motion plus peripheral and turning the entire over world into one giant dungeon. Other then that it played it safe.
Wind Waker was the bigger risk. It was certainly regarded as such for its time.
I'm just saying, the Razor sword looks completely different. Also what extra swords were there in Wind Waker? Apparently there are 6 according to one guy, not even trying to argue here, I'm just curious because all I remember were the two normal swords in that game
ah I see, I was only counting swords that are actually in your inventory. And not just "level 1, level 2, level 3" swords because they really aren't different enough to me visually.
I liked that you could have a great fairy sword as an C-item sword.
Well... yeah, which was my point. The guy I initally replied to posted the pictures of all the swords from MM. Most of the other games don't have completely different modeled swords. But props to TP and OoT for having a specific Gear screen as well as equipment. I like that.
Yep. Guy has talent, but needs an editor for his writing. So many quotes that go like "name your price", and the edgyness for the sake of edgyness. Other than that, it's an alright mod. 7/10.
The Zelda timeline is such bullshit.
By that logic, every single game could have a branch "hero is defeated" timeline
What if Link was rekt in WW?
What if Link was rekt in TP?
Yeah, I agree the timeline's bullshit. That's why I tend to see the games themselves as different interpretations of the same tale, which the sequels being a continuation of each respective tale. It easier to think of the series that way and stays true to its name, for the most part.
>By that logic, every single game could have a branch "hero is defeated" timeline
Perhaps that's the point.
Defeated timelines would provide enough leeway for Nintendo to return to a specific game for nostalgia reasons or recycled concepts, if needed be.
Just imagine how much dough and hype a game centering around the Hero of Time's defeat would generate, for example.
It was probably the best way to inject the older games into the timeline.
I've seen enough fan theories that try to place those games into a two-way timeline. It just doesn't work. The worst part is that most of them try to place the two Oracle games on opposing timelines with some bullshit about those games "unify" the timeline back into one.
Though I had personally subscribed to the theory that those games were part of a separate universe from the rest of them, prior to the official timeline being put out.
You know. For a game that's more musically connected than even Ocarina of Time; Majora's Mask sure reuses its boss theme a lot.
Excluding the first time you hear it, it's used at least 16 more times in the game before you have to hear it again the 17th and final time when you meet Skull Kid at the top again.
That's a whole lotta recycled track.
The trailer spoils the penultimate final boss theme. A hint towards new music? Tfw Nintendo uses tracks from all the other 3D Zeldas, and uses the Twilight Princess rising crescendo for the Goht fight whenever you make contact.
For the 4,022nd time; The Minish Cap's title refers to the magical red Gnat hat made for the royal family, NOT LINK'S HAT.
Was The Wind Waker the origin of Link's tunic just because he starts the game in his pj's? NO.
It was stated in numerous interviews that the Minish Cap as a game is meant to explain the origins of Link's trademark hat.
It also ended up as the origin story for the Four Sword, something that was never revealed in interviews at all.
Are you really this dense? The explanation of the hat is in The Minish Cap (the game), it's not THE Minish Cap. It doesn't have to do with the title, it has to do with the fact that Link's predecessor has no hat, and Ezlo becomes the hat, which changes the garb of the hero.
I'm still not over them retconning the Master Sword's creation.
It's like ALTTP no longer exists in Aonuma's eyes, or was never meant to. He wants to wipe it off of the timeline, along with all other pre-OoT games.
>It was stated in numerous interviews that the Minish Cap as a game is meant to explain the origins of Link's trademark hat.
No, it wasn't.
Link starting off without hat was just an excuse to give him a talking hat. Why do you think Vaati made Ezlo a hat with that particular shape in the first place? It was already a staple of Hylian lore.
It didn't retcon the Master Sword origin in ALttP. Hot dang, can't you get anything right? The prologue for ALttP is told in an "the story goes" fashion. The Master Sword was said to be crafted by the Hylian people to defeat Ganon. Which, seeing as Ganon never pulled his coup d'etat, and it's because of it that Link was able to go back and stop him, why would they have any reason to believe differently? Unless you're one of those sheeple who believe in the third timeline. Now that's a non-canon re-envisionment to poke a finger at.
Are you slow or something? The Hero of Man, Link's predecessor, doesn't have the hat. It's not part of the hero's garb. Therefore Link also does not have the hat. Then Link meets Ezlo. Link does heroic stuff and saves the day. From then on, the hat is added to the hero's garb as a tribute to Link and Ezlo.
Holy moly, he's talking about the original prologue in the manual of all the original releases.
Did you guys only play the GBA release or something. I feel for your souls to have played the best Zelda in such an unworthy way.
>No, it wasn't.
Yes it was, dude. Just because you weren't born at that time doesn't mean it never happened.
>The Master Sword was said to be crafted by the Hylian people to defeat Ganon.
I don't know where you pulled that headcanon from, but if you truely believe it, then Ocarina of Time poses a problem long before Skyward Sword does.
>Hero of Men
He doesn't have a hat because he's not a Hylian so he didn't serve Hylia/Zelda like the Skyloftian knights. Therefore he had no reason to wear one.
Link = Hylian.
Hero of Men = huMAN.
It even says, Zelda came down as a gift to him from the sky.
Also, Link's grandpa and the King of Hyrule both fought to a draw in their prime. So whose bloodline carries the hero's? The truth is there are multiple hero's and it's always been planned that way. One not having his signature hat is just further evident of this, because again, he's not LINK. The one you play in The Minish Cap, is.
By the time of Minish Cap, Hylian and Human had become interchangeable in Zelda games. You see the word Human far more often than Hylian.
On top of this, there isn't anything anywhere that says Zelda came down as a gift to him (And I'm going to assume you mean the Hero of Men) from the sky. Where are you even pulling that from? Just stop, man. You're completely wrong on all counts.
Zelda is the Golden Light that was gifted to the Hero of Men in the glass mural. You didn't even play the game. You give up... thinking I'll give up!!!
>Koizumi: Aonuma-san, wanna switch with me on Super Mario Bros. sometime?
>Aonuma: Hey, that sounds good… Not!
>Koizumi: I'll make the next Zelda game. Then you can enjoy playing it.
>Aonuma: No way. (firmly)
This brings my piss to a boil.
Didn't know about that. Will add "added deliciously supple ass" to the list of achievements of Based Koizumi for posterity.
The game forces these themes down your throat.
Understand that within this game, Link, the main character and hero is forced to run and abandon everyone in Terminia as they are crushed by the moon several times over before you can actually finally bring peace.
It is literally impossible to complete this game without an Apocalypse destroying innocent lives. You may be going back in time but you are essentially only saving yourself and leaving everyone else in that timeline to die.
How can some one consider this as hiding the idea of death. This game is as evil as fuck.
the only character in any zelda game that can be killed by link for a crime as petty as theft
Except Miyamoto, who was mad. He only came around on Rosalina within the last couple of years.
>You may be going back in time
You don't go back in time. Majora's Mask takes place in a time loop that Link keeps re-establishing until he can save the world.