>>270410954 Skyward Sword sold 4 million, I don't see exactly what's the problem here. I know every other 3D Zelda save for Majora's sold more, but 4 million is still a very strong number, especially for a game that require a peripheral like WM+. Not only that, it was also very well received by both media and fans.
- 8 dungeons minimum - 15 minute tutorial - Overworld that feels like an overworld and not just a hub level. - All the speed/tedium improvements from WW HD - Mix up dungeon concepts and lead-in time (max 4 elemental dungeons/nostalgia dungeons, one companion dungeon, 3 or 4 dungeons with significant side story interaction and 4 other ones with little to no sidequest material) - Hidden areas in old dungeons and in the overworld. - Epona right from the beginning. - At least 3 difficulty modes available (normal, hard and then some sort of ultra hard mode) - Difficulty that scales with the hearts you would normally get from the dungeons, so that the game actually gets more challenging rather than staying the same or getting easier. - Don't build the whole game around a gimmick, just take the best of what the old games did and improve it or mash it together into one experience. - Rupee sinks - Boss fights that are just more than "use dungeon item and hit the eye"
Everything else is icing on the cake and I think Nintendo will do a good job on the art style, story, characters, and so on.
>>270410386 You know how the old 2D games are designed? Where every screen has something of interest? Be it a puzzle, and item to find, a character to talk to, an interesting landmark, etc. Every screen in 2D Zelda have something. Varying in degrees of interest. But never nothing.
That's how they should design the 3D games. They should take take a cubic measurement, and then make sure there is always something of interest within that block of space. Say for example each block is 20 meters by 20 meters by 20 meters. Block out the play area of the game using this spacial grid. And then make sure each block contains SOMETHING.
>>270411795 I just think it doesn't look appealing He's improved, sure, but he's still not good Was a little harsh comparing it to shad "man it must suck being into goth/tattoo girls because i'm the only artist that does that shit" man, though.
>>270411673 >- A not-long-as-fucking-ass boring tutorial/intro >- Overworld that feels like an overworld and not just a hub level. >- All the speed/tedium improvements from WW HD >- Hidden areas in old dungeons and in the overworld.
These are the most important to me. I want a dense overworld, not dense with forest a bullshit but with actual places to go, things to find in the overworld itself. Twilight Princess would've had it right if they didn't have so much empty space, and Skyward Sword would have had it almost right if all the ground areas and sky were connected properly.
>>270412441 Technically, the Ocarina could be considered a gimmick, it's just that it was a lot less forced and prominent than the sailing in Wind Waker or motion controls in SS, and thus not problematic.
Since this nigga's the only one at it in this thread, might as well get some opinions flowing
>- 8 dungeons minimum As long as they're woven in well, I don't care about the number of dungeons as long as the game itself isn't lacking in content. I'd rather 4-5 fantastically designed and innovative dungeons than 2 great ones and 6 filler >- 15 minute tutorial Agreed. >- Overworld that feels like an overworld and not just a hub level. Again, as long as it's content filled, couldn't give a toss >- All the speed/tedium improvements from WW HD If the game is designed well it shouldn't really require you to spend a lot of time running around aimlessly >- Mix up dungeon concepts and lead-in time Agree. Worst part of Twilight Princess and the 2D Zeldas is that you get to an area and the area itself is just an excuse to find access to the dungeon, it doesn't feel like a world >- Hidden areas in old dungeons and in the overworld. Agreed. >- Epona right from the beginning. Again, depends on how the game is designed. I don't want a massive world to explore if it's like TP and only has a few areas of note >- At least 3 difficulty modes available (normal, hard and then some sort of ultra hard mode) As long as the difficulties aren't handled like WWHD or ALBW and actually change enemy patterns/dungeon designs, this is cool. No one likes bullet sponge bosses and artificial difficulty created by not having hearts >- Difficulty that scales with the hearts you would normally get from the dungeons, so that the game actually gets more challenging rather than staying the same or getting easier. Depends how it's handled, I'd rather the games enemies just become smarter and the hazards more unforgiving >- Don't build the whole game around a gimmick, just take the best of what the old games did and improve it or mash it together into one experience. Depends on the gimmick, tbh, MM and WW handled it well
They should abandon a lot of 3D Zelda conventions, they're inherently inferior to what 2D Zelda has provided. What they will do instead is make another shitty 3D Zelda game, but this time have a big world (with nothing in it) and use that as a selling point.
>>270411673 >don't build the whole game around a gimmick >just take the best of what the old games did and improve it/mash together That is seriously the most fucking stupid idea anyone has ever had You don't get how that would be terrible, do you?
>no gimmick whatsoever >the game just becomes "go to dungeon, grab item, beat dungeon, repeat ad nauseum" >each zelda following will just be literally the same game with a different artstyle/characters, nothing to set it apart
>mash previous games together >game ends up becoming unfocused, just one giant fanservice circlejerk with no sign of directions >game series goes down the shitter
Having a new, original concept with each game is what keeps the series somewhat fresh It's been that way since the very beginning, handhelds excluded Removing that now would be removing a central focal point of the Zelda formula.
>>270411673 >- Don't build the whole game around a gimmick, just take the best of what the old games did and improve it or mash it together into one experience. But anon the best Zelda games (Majoras Mask and Wind Waker) both had a gimmick out the ass and it actually made the games great.
>>270413574 Yes it is a bad thing anon Imagine if every single LoZ was the same exact thing as Ocarina of Time, with no change, just the same game every time with a difference in artstyle and characters alone It'd get boring after the third go, wouldn't it?
Don't drop the Zelda gameplay formula. It's a fantastic way of making quality action adventures, and one of the most iconic things about the series.
Drop the zelda plot formula all you want, however.
Also, keep RPG elements far away from my Zelda. I always find that having a bunch of customization just gets in my way and stops me from doing things that are actually interesting, like dungeons. Keep upgrades, yes, but drop customization and rpg elements.
>>270411673 >- At least 3 difficulty modes available (normal, hard and then some sort of ultra hard mode) How about this.
Normal Mode - Just the regular normal mode.
Hero Mode - Hearts can no longer be obtained from pots and bushes. But monster still drop hearts. So you are rewarded for your risk. Monsters also do 50% more damage. Hints are turned off, you can only reply on your wits.
Legendary Hero Mode - Hearts do not spawn at all! Monsters do 100% more damage. Potions cost 50% more. Hints are turned off. Extra monsters spawn in various places. Harder monsters appear earlier. You no longer get a chime when you activate a switch or complete a puzzle. The camera doesn't show you the results of a puzzle. You are left to observe for yourself what has changed. You can not upgrade your items, unless an upgraded function is absolutely required as part of the design for a puzzle. All of your items stay at base level, except for when you invariably find the Master Sword.
>>270414058 >making hard mode just some random toggles to increase tedium instead of actually changing the gameplay
literally the only good parts of that are extra, harder monsters
i'd just drop hero mode entirely and return Master Quest, where every dungeon is redesigned to assume the player has a mastery of zelda mechanics and common puzzle designs rather than earlier dungeons being easier
>>270414253 are you implying linearity is necessarily bad
like, fuck, it's basically required inside of dungeons for them to be any good at all
>>270414761 >i'd just drop hero mode entirely and return Master Quest I hear you. And I would agree, in all ideals. But think about Zelda's normal development cycle, and tell me the time they ever managed to make more than 8-10 solid dungeons all at once? In some games, they even have to CUT dungeons out of the game. So let's assume the new game has 8 solid dungeons in it. Do you think it's realistic for them to then make a Master Quest version of each? Prior to release?
No. There would need to be another way to increase difficulty.
>>270415181 Not every Link is an amateur, SS has proper sword training and OoT became a knight whose swordplay couldn't be learned by anyone. And still for a bunch of kids who picked up a sword with no knowledge the niggas always kill the big evil.
The Wind Waker kiddies are all grown up and now dominate the vocal sector of the Zelda fandom, as this thread is proving with >>269233263 and others. They firmly believe that shipping and waifufaggotry are more important than the gameplay, and praise game and story padding mechanics that are destructive to the series. They dominate every Zelda thread on /v/ with the same 40 LinkxTetra pics They put Wind Waker on a pedestal as the very apex of gaming, as a great technological achievement, as humanity's magnum fucking opus. As long as these people exist as the vocal minority, Nintendo will cater to them, continuing the decline of Zelda. And it will only get worse once the Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword fans get their turn.
Zelda will never be saved, because they don't believe it needs saving.
>>270410386 Who says it needs saving? SS was, like most games in the series, an experiment. Some things turned out good (run button, aesthetic, combat), other things not so good (pretty much everything else, sadly). As long as they learned something from it, I have no doubt the next game will be worth playing as well.
What I don't want is another attempt at going back to OoT / MM. Apart from OoT, the two best 3D games were great because they broke off in some way; MM had the time mechanic and a different, more concentrated focus in the story and world, WW had a change in art style and tone, as well as better combat and enemy interaction. TP was just kind of like OoT, but with less interesting art direction and worse dungeons. Sure, it had the best companion of the series, but that the only thing that really stood out.
I'm looking forward to Zelda U, partly because I believe the gamepad can actually add something to the experience - just like it did in WW HD. Quick menu access, [optional] gyro aiming, etc. Hell, I wouldn't mind a FP camera on it during some segments, like when crawling or flying the SS beetle (assuming it, or some variation of it, makes it back in). But also because I genuinely believe SS was a learning experience for Nintendo. I think ALBW showed promise, and that they have a better focus now than during the Wii's generation. Not saying Zelda U *will* be good, but that there's a lot of potential that it *can* be. I'll wait and see, of course, but I don't feel like the series is dead or even dying.
Linearity is not bad. Most Zelda games are linear in some way, be it "you need to get this item to move forward" or "you need to trigger this scene to move forward." The only game that isn't linear is probably the first one, and I honestly think it's somewhat worse for it.
What's bad is being completely transparent about being linear and relying almost entirely on story-based progression instead of hitting a balance. This is what plagued TP and SS big time.
>>270410386 The only way to fix zelda is to get rid of the master sword. Think about it TP Kill 3 guys, go get master sword SS Get 3 flames, got master sword WW Get 3 pendants, go get master sword
I haven't played ALBW but i guess it's the same thing (I could be mistaken)
The thing is that a lot of the plot in those games focuses in getting the master sword and killing the guy. Majoras mask only had 2 main swords, so the plot focuses on other things that actuallymatter.
One example of having the master sword but not being the main focus, the zelda hacked game ¨Parallel Worlds¨;the game doesn't tell you that there is a Master Sword until the very end )and that is like 30 minutes before ending the game
>>270416781 To me, Zelda has always been about exploration around linearity. Say you're tasked with going to the south to find whatever, and so you set off in that direction. Then you find something while travelling; an NPC to help, a shop to check out, a cave to explore, a hole to carelessly throw yourself into, enemies to fight, bugs to collect, or just a nice look area to inspect. If the next game just goes "fuck it, go wherever" I think I won't enjoy it as much, unless every single part of the map has that same hand crafted feel to it. I prefer having that direction, and then being both allowed and encouraged to go off the beaten track when I feel like it.
that's basically the premise of the zelda formula; you're tasked with heading to a dungeon, while heading there you discover an obstacle you cannot pass, but you can go to the dungeon anyway, and you get an item in that dungeon allowing you to pass that obstacle
the zelda formula is beautiful game design and it would be a shame if it was lost
It's probably just me but I want dungeons to be indistinguishible from the overworld. I didn't thought of the first 3 dungeons of OoT as dungeons but places when I was a kid, but there's an obvious distinction between dungeons and overworld.
>>270417882 Yeah, and I'm honestly getting really tired of all these open-world games. It's being shoved every single series that has the slightest potential for it. I don't fucking want a bigger area to explore, when there's fucking nothing in it. It's why MM is my favourite 3D Zelda; it's a smaller, more concentrated experience. At first you're fairly locked into going in one direction, but as you start getting your items, the world opens up gradually to let you explore more and more. And while it might be a smaller world than what OoT offered, it's absolutely filled with stuff to do, and people to talk to. MM actually had a world that felt living - I wanted to go out and talk to the NPCs, to learn more about them, and to help them with their problems. I'd take a well designed, hand crafted linear game over a soulless open-world game, "full" with copy-pasted encounters, any day.
Yes, and I'm not saying they should get rid of that. What they need to do in fact is bring it back, because it's out of focus in TP and SS.
In OoT, you could explore a vast amount of land right after leaving the forest, but some areas would remain out of reach. To get to the Zora's River, you need the bombs. This is basically Zelda in a nutshell. Other places are locked behind more story-related stuff, like Death Mountain. The game strikes a balance between these two types of progression and benefits as a result.
Meanwhile, in TP, areas are basically locked off until you get further in the story and Midna allows you to enter. SS straight up has you unlocking areas one by one. It doesn't feel fluid, even if on paper it's similiar.
>>270419012 I wish they kept this artstyle, or even a refined version that looks like oil painting or whatever to make it timeless. I liked WW and SS but I want something that doesn't look cel-shaded again. I miss when Zelda made me feel uneasy and spooked during the N64 days.
>>270417160 >>270418297 That's exactly what I mean, those game are incredibly awesome, in some of those the upgrades sword is optional and the stories are actually about something else that the triforce/sword/ganon thing. Specially Link's Aweakining, the end was so fucking sad.
>>270419208 SS was caught in a weird place. It was somewhere between TP - a focus on story and characters, more accessible yet a step back towards the "roots" - and WW - art style and tone, large overworld to explore (I assume that's what they were going for with the sky, any way) and more extensive combat. It felt, to me, like they lost track of a lot of things. Not just the approach to the level design. SS felt like a grand idea gone wrong; they wanted an extensive world, where you could fly around in the sky, exploring, and then drop down to progress the story in the world below. But somewhere, either during planning or due to technical restrictions, they just weren't able to take it that far. There are still glimpses of brilliance in the game, they're just hidden below layers of mediocrity.
I think that game would have been so much better, had they just reined in their goals. The Wii couldn't handle it all, so they should have gone for sky or surface, or at least limited one more for the sake of the other. Too much was wasted on an empty sky, and too much was wasted on a surface that felt disconnected due to you just dropping down in zone A, B or C, without ever moving between them. To restate my earlier point; MM was great because it was a concentrated experience around the core formula. An open-world is, to me, the exact opposite of that. It's sacrificing the personal touch, for the scale of mass production. And it worries me a bit that Zelda U seems to go for a more open-world (even if I'm not sure if they mean it in the sense of Skyrim or in the sense of ALBW).
I like legoman's Zelda in particular but all his porn of her is Link getting cuckolded by Groose. I just want a canonically correct version where it is the other way around. Groose sobbing like a little girl while his Zelda gets railed by some twink would be glorious
It's not really in need of saving, but it does need to make some serious changes to the formula.
ALBW had some right ideas, like allowing you to play any dungeon in the order you wanted, which by proxy made it that the story didn't interfere too much with the gameplay. Going from this, they need to simply make it that each dungeon poses its own threat, one that can made easier if you were carrying a particular item. But at the same time, they need to make sure that the dungeons and items feel organic and not like throw away shit.
>>270421372 This, it's slutface but if you can get past that it's great. Shadman's coloring and facial expressions are terrible. The only real good thing about Shadman is if you're a faggot, he loves drawing assholes and cocks. He shoops a cock on every fucking picture.
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.
This is a 4chan archive - all of the shown content originated from that site. This means that 4Archive shows their content, archived. If you need information for a Poster - contact them.
If a post contains personal/copyrighted/illegal content, then use the post's [Report] link! If a post is not removed within 24h contact me at email@example.com with the post's information.