literally /v/

i dunno op, looks more like a kotaku comment

>implying anyone here thinks games should be concidered art

literally who

>>270394603

I don't think I've ever met anybody so pathetic as to strawman a whole conversation on a forum. Jesus that's sad.

>guaranteed replies

Implying we think video games are art.

>>270395059
It should never be considered such. That way we wouldn't have to worry about criticisms.

>>270395123
Wait what

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>"The boogieman is oppressing me!"
>prove the boggieman doesnt exist
>"So let's make him."

literally the entire SJW movement in the industry right now.

>>270395123
Fuck off with GG bullshit.

>>270395123
Neo-Vivian

Nobody talks like that.

>>270395287
That isn't even gg. Kill yourself idiot

>>270395123
basically this, but the problem is people are complaining about existing games pandering to one demographic rather than complaining about the lack of games pandering to other demographics

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>>270395123
That girl is cute.
I want her to sit on my face.


Post more if this cum commander for me pl0x

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>>270395123

The "Are games art" question is a ridiculous catch-22.

If games aren't art, then they aren't protected by anything that protects art and can be censored and controlled at will.

If games are art, then artfags with an entire faggot of sticks up their asses can shit over everything with their priviledge checking idiocy.

There's literally no way to win.

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>>270395495
>ability type: complain

more like
>trolls: FUCKING NOOB DIE FAGGOT LOL!!!

>hipsters: games should be art
>public: okay but we'll be criticizing them from now on
>hipsters: ok
>womyn: WOW DID YOU SEE THAT GUY BACK THERE? HE JUST SAID FAGGOT! MISOGYNY! HARASSMENT!
>gamer: I-- what? I have nothing to do with that guy.
>trolls: HAHA WOMEN SHOULD DIE FAGGOT NIGGER CUNT!!! WOMEN ARE FAGGOTS!!! ILL KILL YOU!!
>womyn: OMFG!!!! GAMERS ARE DEAD!!!!

>>270395563
The only winning move is not to play.

I guess /v/ is perfect for that.

We never threaten to kill people. Have you ever seen /v/ say "I'll fucking kill you" to another /v/ member? No. We always say "Kill yourself".

>>270395123
>misogyny isn't attractive
Does the beta fedora who made this actually believe that people think he's the girl?

>>270394603
A shitty analogy. yup, it's really like a post on /v/

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>>270395123
That.. .actually touched me, and it made my eyes water. Thank you anon, I think I understand now.

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>>270395123
>SJWs defiled our daughteru to turn her against us

Oh fuck no.

>>270396026
I hope you're underaged.

>>270396069

Looks like an inside job to me. Reeks of /pol/'s MUH ARYAN PURITY

>retards who think social criticism and aesthetic criticism are the same thing
I wish someone would do more than make empty threats, you idiots are some of the most vomit-inducing pseudo-intellectuals that the world has ever seen. Any true intellectual or aesthete would scorn your moralistic brow-beating that you try to dress up as "criticism".

>>270394603
Except games aren't art, games are just that, games, a hobbie.

>being a gamer

>>270394603
>a fucking PHOTO of a comment on a gawker network that stands as a massive strawman

how do you people function without accidentally ending up in the ER for shoving dragon dildos up your ass 24/7?

>Being upset about bloggers fighting with other bloggers over stupid shit
The industry is run by money, not feelings.

>Taking a picture of your screen

>>270395059
>Implying we think video games are art.
why would you think otherwise when it is factually art.

>>270395123
>and not for one demographic
Cooking Mama?

>>270396405
I love cooking mama

>>270396169
Ha ha, no. They are so hypocritical, it's amazing. /pol/ isn't subtle enough to do this.

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>>270394603
>having an open discussion about video games and censoring video games are the same thing

>>270396181
You know what else is a hobby? Poking people with a blunt sword.

>>270396181
Another hobby is painting.

>>270396528
My dick aint blunt

>>270394603
>talking about "art"
>it isn't automatically excluded from public criticism cuz muh expression
Cool strawman bro.

I don't understand because art is protected from censorship despite criticisms. It's why Michaelangelos David has a peepee.

>>270396658
Why should anything be excluded from criticism?

i don't give a shit if people say games are misogynistic or objectify women or whatever the buzzword of the week is

what i care about is if game devs have to cater to these butthurt fuckers

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>>270394603
>yfw Roger Ebert was literally right about games not being art but its ok so that SJW's don't latch on and ruin it
>yfw he was trying to save vidya
goodnight sweet prince

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>>270395123
We are the world
we are the gamers
we are the ones to make a brighter game
so lets start playing!

There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own games
It's true we'll make a better day
Just you and me!

*holds anon's hand*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9BNoNFKCBI

>>270395563
>If games are art, then artfags with an entire faggot of sticks up their asses can shit over everything with their priviledge checking idiocy.
And it won't do anything.

>>270396834
Because it hurts my feelings.

If these people want equality in video games why don't they just make their own video games and let the free market decide what's more valuable?

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>>270394603
>Everybody wants games to be considered art
>Everybody doesn't want "social analysis"

What a convenient picture this guy is painting. Thankfully its totally impossible for such a large group of people to have differing opinions on the matter - that would completely blow his shitty argument out of the water. It isn't like the only people circlejerk over games are art are the ones who want to spew their bullshit criticisms - no that would be ridiculous. Actually I do believe video games are an artform/medium in which art can exist but very few games are elevated to the level of art. These people don't seem to understand the fact that I have no problem with video games being criticized, I have a problem with the dishonest manner in which they are criticized by these social justice fools and I am frustrated that a good majority of people eat this shit up. GG as a movement is fucking silly as all hell but these fucking assholes are literally scum that don't even bat an eye when their glorious matriarch claims in all seriousness that mass shootings are caused by masculine toxicity. These people are fucked in the head

>>270397157
They all got liberal arts degrees and don't know the first thing about how to develop a video game.

>>270396303
Over reacting to images is nothing new here, new friend.

>>270397157
Because they can't make the games. They want everyone else to do the work for them.

>>270396528
What's wrong with fencing?

>>270397098
Doesn't hurt feelings it just makes no sense.

>>270397181
>Actually I do believe video games are an artform/medium in which art can exist but very few games are elevated to the level of art.
>>270396917
>Roger Ebert was literally right about games not being art
>>270396181
>Except games aren't art,

DICTIONARY. PICK ONE UP.

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Just going to go ahead and post some quotes by Milo, hero of Gamergate, who was actually trying to get games banned

>So ignore the shoddy, opportunistic posturing from feminists about Rodger’s crimes. It’s the blurring of fantasy and reality in today’s video game-obsessed young men that’s the real enemy. If there’s a cultural milieu that contributed to the creation of Elliot Rodger, it was that of nihilistic video games, not the myth of patriarchal oppression.

>Counterstrike, which together with Halo and the ubiquitous World of Warcraft are mentioned frequently in Rodger’s manifesto, is the classic frustrated sociopath’s pastime.

>I understand why young people might get the odd thrill from beating up a bad guy, or catching a glimpse of a nipple or two. But there’s something a bit tragic, isn’t there, about men in their thirties hunched over a controller whacking a helmeted extraterrestrial? I’m in my late twenties, and even I find it sad. And yet there are so many of them – enough to support a multi-billion dollar video games industry. That’s an awful lot of unemployed saddos living in their parents’ basements.

>>270397336
As in the 'art' of fencing?

>>270395813
Bullshit. I was hating on /ss/ and promoting NIR and got a few death threats.

>>270397371
Don't worry anon, people's opinions change!

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>this game is misogynistic

Oh the ironing

Didn't we have this thread 20 minutes ago?

>>270394603
this is the guy who tweeted this picture isn't it? he is a fucking nutjob https://twitter.com/petercoffin

>>270397371
do you sjw shills ever stop?
>>270383278

>>270397371
>unemployed
>billions of dollars

There's this same shaming mentality that's popped up every time a new media comes about.
>there's something sad about people transfixed by a box with moving pictures

also
>one deranged consumer is an example of all the consumers of a group.

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Why is it that the anons that ignored the GG threads decided to act like shitposting 12 year old and force the tumblr movement when it was unanimously decided (by Moot because he didn't know shit) that everyone just wanted to ignore the whole movement

they never put in the 3 minutes to read the reason why we did it. they just like to shitpost. everyday about this

also 4+4chan is still fueling this so stop acting like this is dead. Every comic artist is gong to make a statement about this and soon everyone and your grandmothers will know and take the radical SJW side

now saying they are all radical but they are absolutely hiding behind the actual concerns and movement to fund their agenda.

>>270394603
Actually the conversation is more like this;

>'Public' [A.K.A. 3rd wave hyper-offended feminists from tumblr]: "Sex is unhealthy! Women who are sexy are bad! Any woman who is portrayed is sexy is bad!"

>'Gamers' [A.K.A. people who aren't brainwashed]: "..but why?"

that's pretty much the "conversation"

>>270394603
>games impact on society
What about the impact of music and movies impact on society?

>>270397371
Nice spam fuckface

>>270394603
>people want games to be considered art

>>270395563
>then artfags with an entire faggot of sticks up their asses can shit over everything with their priviledge checking idiocy.
No, they can't.

I mean, you can't stop them from spouting their uneducated mouths, naturally. But spouting "muh soggy knee" isn't criticism, it's a morally charged condemnation. Which has no place in art criticism.

That's not to say that political and social issues within games can't be analyzed and critiqued, but game journos aren't smart enough to pull that off.

>>270397848
>>270397717

>he says in the repost thread

>>270397404
As in the sport of fencing.

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>>270394603
>it's

>>270397773
B-but anon women need to be included more in vidya! They do, but it's a goalpost move nonetheless.

>>270397747
He's just an idiot trying to push an agenda to turn people against video games by dehumanizing the people who play them. It's an incredibly dirty tactic but not a new one. If you say something is bad enough times without any real facts idiots will believe it, and idiots are louder and angrier.

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Art critics are not Orwellian thought police. They gloss over sexualised content matter and consider more the technical skill, and meaning of the art, without wanting to censor it.

What a terrible analogy, OP. I hope you're just deliberately trying to rustle my jimmies.

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>>270397371
I told the the GG faggots to watch out for Cliven Bundys, and that's exactly the type of people they championed.
Watching both sides is hilarious.

>>270397371
If everyone does it, in what sense is it sad?

Not a coincidence it's always women and girls committing hate crimes over video games. The pattern is connected to ideas of toxic femininity in our culture.

http://www.dailydot.com/esports/reason-gaming-eswc-assault-imaginary-gaming-assault/

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>>270395123
>SJWs are literally on the same tier as Coldsteel the Hedgeheg

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>>270398000
trips of truth, calling it now

>>270395123
>I believe there should be a variety in games to match the variety of gamers

I believe companies are going to make whatever the fuck makes money and you can fuck yourself right off telling companies what they should do. They aren't going to fucking listen to a bunch of fat SJW whores who don't even play video games. People who make stupid images like this should spend less time being whiny bitches towards an amorphous "game dev community" which consists of people who are just trying to make money, and spend more time telling their fat SJW friends to get interested in games so that they can create a sizable enough demographic for themselves to actually get companies interested in their dollars.

>>270398120
How is that any different from Vivian?

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>>270397362
>Something that is by nature subjective should conform to the rigid definition found in a dictionary.
>I trust what Google tells me because I lack any critical thinking skills

Pic related, here is your fucking definition faggot.

>>270398036
>Champion Milo as a figurehead of the movement
>Milo's first article is about "feminist bullies"
>Milo tweets about how "dykes are disgusting"
>Milo tweets about beating fat women to death in Postal 2
>WHY ARE YOU GUYS SAYING ITS ABOUT FEMINISM??

>>270398086
>Muh idealistic society
Most people in their 20's are also living at home more than they used to, but of course people will try to shame them as lazy and not just incapable of living on their own with the housing market.

>>270398190

Well for one thing, her hair and shirt is recolored

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literally anti/v/

>>270394603
The problem is, it never IS "so about the depiction of women." It's "THIS GAME IS SEXIST" "Why?" "BECAUSE IT IS."

>>270398190
nigga dat bitch don't even talk

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>>270398316
why is there so many layers of truth in that image

>>270396487
I don't think many SJWs want to censor video games, they just want all video games to have their values. The main exception I can think of being Japanese games with loli, but that's not what most SJWs complain about.

>using it's as a possessive.

Fucking dropped.

Also, I don't think anyone here cares about games being art. We just want good games.

>>270398389
It's not even sexist. It's "misogyny". It's literally "hates" women.

I'm surprised how far this has actually gone. Even BBC Radio 1 had a segment about it on the news today.
Shame it's just as detrimental as Chanology 2.0

>>270394603
Good, let them turn a critical eye on games. Just like any other type of art, there is nothing thats stopping games from being filled with violence, sex and all the other bullshit feminists complain about right now. Now its completely fine because its art.

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Because instead of critics we have moral police who think that anything that doesn't fall into a narrow line of political correctness and sterile inoffensiveness should be gotten rid of for the good of society.

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>>270398225
Don't forget Adam Baldwin.
Dude is seriously a nutcase.

>>270397371
>hates women so much he's now a gay conservative transphobe

honestly, he's a character to say the least

>>270397181
>Mecha Looking at its Own Shadow
>Watching that shit

>>270397157
Because a meritocratic system like laissez-faire economics is anathema to the dumb, entitled millennials who worship at the altar of critical theory.

You have to remember that these people blame all their failings on perceived oppression, so that they don't have to confront what a sad sack of shit they are. The idea of being judged for their inherent, individual value is the worst thing that could happen to them.

There's a tweet from Zoe in that image wizardchan made to exonerate themselves that pretty hilariously illustrates the typical view these people have toward the idea of merit.

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>>270398616
I always fucking rage when I read this and I suggest everyone here to rad it

>>270398616
A mate of mine does contract 3D character modelling, a lot of the time for figurines and table-top pieces but also vidya.

He gets *constant* hate-mail and abuse from SJWs threatening him and calling him nasty shit, demanding he censor himself. Fuck them.

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>Sentinel Media is said to owe at least £10,000 more to other former contributors and co-founders, and other sums to photographers who said Yiannopoulos, its editor-in-chief, used their work on The Kernel without permission or payment.

>Two other former writers, Margot Huysman and Mic Wright, say they are still waiting for a balance of about £4,000 each to be paid. Yiannopoulos paid each of them about £1,000 at the end of October and, they say, promised further payments each month – but those were not forthcoming. When Huysman complained of the non-payment on Twitter, he sent her emails saying “You’ve already made yourself permanently unemployable in London with your hysterical, brainless tweeting, by behaving like a common prostitute and after starting a war with me, as perhaps you are now discovering” and implying he had a salacious picture of her from a party that he would publish if she persisted in complaining.

Ethical journalism guys :^)

>>270398995
>not citing sources

Yeah, ethical indeed.

>>270398995
Where da sources at.

>>270397371
>>270398995
GG is a joke.

You already made this thread
We already explained to you why that's wrong on different accounts it hurts the brain
Do it once more and I'll report you for spam

>>270398995
sup gamerghazi

are you forgetting your queen victim zoe quinn literally stabbed and raped a person?

try digging up real dirt on someone who isn't a retarded tabloid journalist :)

And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

>>270399178
>>270399108
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/mar/01/the-kernel

Shilling is hard in here. Milo didn't deny he was misinformed about video games or gamer culture. He made apologies , even made a steam account and played some vidya.

He's now playing Postal 2

>>270399240
GG is not about Zoe fuck off

>>270399305
ummmm what

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SJW's: We want games with more sexual/racial diversity and non- stereotypical female characters!

EXCEPT FOR HATRED AND THE WORD "TRAP" IN JAPANESE GAMES AND GIRLS WHO ARE SEXUALIZED IN ANY WAY AND ANYONE WHO ISN'T AN ARYAN MAN BEING TREATED LESS THAN A GOLD STAR PRINCESS. WE WILL THREATEN YOU WITH VIOLENCE IF YOU DON'T CHANGE, but we won't include that in our cute little comic on tumblr remember to reblog :)

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>>270399224
Oh no. Please don't. I'm quivering in the shadow of your majesty.

>>270399240
>not about zoe guys!

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>>270399224
>Do it once more and I'll report you for spam
easy there tough guy

>>270399383
>>270399498
GG isn't about Milo either
:^)

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LOL

>Friday 1 March 2013

Just sayin'.

>>270399616
>any time any member of GG is criticized you just plug your ears and shout MUH ETHICS

Must be nice not being at all responsible for anything your movement ever does

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>What does this story have to do with GamerGate? When I realized Locke was Zoe, I was disgusted to see she was still playing the same games. Stealing, cheating, lying and claiming to be victimized by anyone and everyone. Maybe she did stab some guy in the face, and maybe in the first week at every new job she had, some guy tried to extort sex from her. Maybe that doesn't establish an MO on her part. But I know, I did nothing wrong to that woman, and I did not deserve to be lied about. I did not deserve to have my time and my money wasted, and even now, I wonder if opening my mouth about this means she will think of some new horse shit to spread about me to try to ruin my career. And that does seem to be her modus operandi.

>>270399393
>a tumblerite actually threatened to cut themselves if XSEED didn't remove the word "trap" from Akiba's Trip and gave their translator a mental breakdown
"Gamers" are the evil ones

>>270399674
Was responding to
>>270398995

It would be nice to know whats happened with that situation since but that was practically two years ago.

>>270397181
Oh man, I loved MLAIOS! Show of the year all years.

>>270398465
>I don't think many SJWs want to censor video games, they just want all video games to have their values
Read this sentence you wrote over and over again until you realize what you just said.

>>270399736
Trivia Question: Which fanbase has literally murdered more people, gamers or San Francisco Giants fans?

If anyone actually has a problem with Anita and her ilk expressing their (incredibly stupid) opinions, I think they're kind of misguided. I think games, as the product of a creative medium, are art, and always have been, and yeah, that opens them up to criticism.

The problem seems to be that critics do not want discussion. People like Anita want to criticize games and do a terrible job of it, which is fine, but when someone expresses their opinion and says "hey that's wrong", it's seen as neckbearded manchildren who are afraid of women in their vidya.

Everything is constantly clouded by these accusations of harassment. Whenever someone tries to give a criticism that doesn't fall in line with the opinions of the weird little cliquish group at the center of games criticism right now, they are branded as part of some sort of hate movement. It's misdirection, but it's hard to ignore because there ARE people doing harassing, and everyone who is uninitiated just jumps to the side of what is most easily identifiable as right (sexism and harassing is wrong, even if that's not really what the other side was talking about).

I guess my point is, yes, if someone is seriously mad that games are facing critique, they're stupid. But propping up a politically-based narrative and attacking any dissenters with misdirection and shaming isn't discussion, it's fucking propaganda.

>>270399664
>Couldn't answer any of of Colbert's softball strawman questions, drops spaghetti and clumsily changes the subject
>just recited the same script that she always does
>NAILED IT

>>270399741
Why does Zoe look different in every single photo she's in?

>>270399890
>white people riot over videogames and sports
>black people riot over police brutality
>arabs riot over freedom
>asians riot over democracy

Why are white people so pathetic?

>>270399948

I don't even mind the idea of someone expressing a dumb opinion, I do the same all the time.

But my dumb opinions aren't actually shaping the thing being dumbly criticized. And her opinions are.

And that booty bothers me, because I disagree with almost everything her snooty face has to say.

>>270399846
What? All people on /v/ want video games to have their values, saying it should be focused on gameplay and not have liberal messages in them. That doesn't mean /v/ wants to censor video games.

>>270400109
>white people
>sports

>>270394603
This is the second time you post this shit. go back to whatever ass you crawled out of already.

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>>270399741
Man something is wrong with that whole situation. Both the "models" look like dogshit and the only semi attractive person there is the photographer. What the fuck

>>270399736
>must be nice not being responsible for people who aren't me
Yeah, it is.

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>>270399664
Nailed it.

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>>270400246
>there is nly one person that thinks you're full of shit

tumblr sure has that hivemind thing patented if you honestly act like this in real life

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>>270400243
They look pretty white to me

>>270394603
>pretending attempts to censor and silence content is criticism

ez thread ez life

>>270399948
I don't care that the criticize I care how they criticize. Anita straight up lies, cherrypicks, and straight up misrepresents the games she complains about. It wouldn't be much a big deal if she wasn't a dishonest sensationalist attention whore.

>>270400496
Is your post generated by some sort of a /v/ post generator?

>>270394603
Nobody cares what cultural marxists think. It's also one of the stupidest ways of looking at art.

>>270399736
Not at all what the person you responded to was saying but okay, I can see your logic.

>>270400683
>Judging people by the color of their phones

>>270398616
gob bless that guy

it's fucking stupid how the same people that want games to be considered art are the very same that want to hamper anything they dislike or find distasteful

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>>270394603
>Wanting games to be art
ayy lmao

>games
>art

>>270399196
cabalist/Journolist 2.0 is a joke

>>270400164
And it's fine for you to feel that way. I mean, you disagree, so of course you don't want her opinions to have sway.

We have to let her express those opinions though, and let other people decide which is more valid. And yeah, that regrettably ends up with a lot of people picking her bullshit side. But the only thing we can do is better present our argument and hopefully actually affect enough people ourselves that we can turn the tide.

The only thing that really upsets me is the amount of misdirection and shaming employed in this debate. They are completely right in saying Anita should be allowed to express her opinions, however shitty, without being harassed for them, but then they make it absolutely terrifying to try to express any opposing opinions by instantly equating this person with this big bad bigot boogeyman that hates the person instead of just her ideas.

>>270400809
People do that in virtually any debate, though. Our goal should be to expose those fallacies. And I know people have tried to and have been met with "you're just SEXIST!!!", which is incredibly frustrating, but we just have to keep refining our argument and exposing her bad logic and hopefully our less stupid opinions will eventually reach enough people to knock some of the wind out of this weird clique's sails.

We just gotta out-debate them. Nothing else we can do about it.

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>Forbes: Is it safe to assume that Nick Denton influenced you?

>MY: Absolutely. Gawker’s politics and business model are very different to ours, but I admire Nick enormously. He’s managed to build a profitable new media property from scratch, which is just extraordinary. And, more than that, Gawker is a powerful editorial force and a cultural icon. That’s what I’m most in awe of.

>milo loves gawker

LOL

>>270395123
vivian fans are literally tumblr

>>270400809
She's a con artist. What do you expect?

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>>270397371
Is this gonna be the new anti-gg shill copypasta?

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>>270400924
No. Infact I'm a living breathing human that thinks you're full of shit and cannot operate on your own without your queen anita to tell you right from wrong and you reinforce your mindset by getting into small circles with your friends and patting each other on the back.

I genuinely fucking dislike anyone that acts like you who cannot comprehend that there are others that have been able to escape the indoctrinating courses you take in uni to the webcomics you read.

even if you are just baiting me I hope this is seen so those shitheads that took our moot away from us can see how poisonous the world will see them

>>270400496
what retarded shit are you on about? to have this thread created twice already, but other threads get taken down that even come close to being about gamer gate get taken down, goes to show how fucked moot is and how fucked this website is. fuck the mods, fuck moot, and fuck these tumblr white knights and feminazis that are running the show here. enjoy sucking their assholes clean of their shit.

I don't understand why it's such an outlandish idea that a feminist could support the GG side of the arguments.

>>270399948
>I think they're kind of misguided
You're the one misguided here, and I don't mean that in a disparaging way. You're on the right path, you just haven't thought about this enough.

You're right that Anita and her ilk have the right to express their incredibly stupid opinions, but it's important that you recognize these opinions for what they are: moralistic browbeating. It's not "criticism". There's a fine line between criticizing art and attacking it, and declaring a game to be "misogynistic", and thereby dangerous, very clearly crosses that line.

The worrying thing isn't that these people are expressing their terrible, pro-censor opinions, it's that they're doing so and are still being treated as authorities. Don't recognize these people as bad critics, recognize them as nothing more than intellectually impotent idiots.

see also
>>270398616
>>270398021
>>270397920

>>270401681
it isn't

we're discussing the radical feminists that thinks dragons crown having an Amazon should be censored and the artist be assassinated

that's what we're fighting against

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>>270401248
LOL

>tfw moot has left us in the dark

>tfw gamergate discussion is banned, but SJWs and goons now run amok and are free to make /v/-antagonizing threads as they please, slowly eating away at the fabric of the board, and we can't address it

It hurts.

>>270401681
They're against the official party line and that's heretic. Oceania was always at war with Eastasia.

>>270401248
is this a surprise?
guy made bank in a crowded market with shit-all to his name

>>270401248
fuck off retard

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/10/23/Gawker-dishonest-fascists-of-GamerGate-could-cost-us-millions

Hello Gawker.

>>270401852
Literally nothing unethical about having stupid opinions

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>>270401878
Moot was always a faggot, he boasted about free speech but you can't even criticize the god awful moderation

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>>270401878
∞'s /gg/ has 3x more threads then /v/ has at the moment

and it's actually doing shit

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>>270394603
>Games are art
>We need to censor games that make us uncomfortable

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>>270400190
>I don't want censorship, I just want everything to conform to my values

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>>270394603
Figuratively get a life.

>>270402103
So I'm stupid for not aligning to your slant of the argument. You're not helping your cause silly.

>people think their social movements are valid perspectives for the criticism of art

yeah, let's consult the scholars at stormfront about huckleberry finn and maniac magee; we'll get some useful insights into the art of literature

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Games are art. They have always been art. It doesn't necessarily mean they're 'high' art or 'low' art. That depends on the game and a point of view. And it doesn't mean they have to pander to the SJW worldview or any other worldview for that matter. SJWs aren't criticizing and demanding change from games because they're suddenly considered art, anymore than they're criticizing and demanding change of 'street harassment' because it was suddenly considered art.

They're doing it because they really don't like it when other people like things that they don't like, even when it doesn't violate the non-aggression principle. So they whine and cry and complain and shame and slutwalk to get their way. They're adult children.

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>>270395123
meet /pol/lina

>>270399990
Best part was
>Can you name 3 games that portray sexism against women
>...
>That doesn't matter!

$150,000 of research well spent.

>>270402278
>liberals never actually mean anything they say!

surprise surprise huh, they have their agendas they want to push.

>>270394603

I've never once wanted games to be considered art.

Infact, I detest those artsy fartsy notgames.

>>270402447
What the fuck are you talking about?

I said the SOGGY KNEES opinions about Bayo are stupid, but they're not illegal or immoral

>>270394603
These days, games are only considered art in terms of the high concepts they consist of.

People only discuss the writing or imagery rather than any artistic merits to the actual mechanical design of the game.

In other words, people who think games are art only consider them art in the sense that they contain previously existing forms of art. This is fucking retarded and so are you.

>>270394603
You just made this thread faggot.
Also, art is above any censorship and to complain that art refuses to change due to your criticism is just as stupid as complaining that the criticism is bad.

>>270402526
>/pol/lina will never punish you for being a degenerate

>>270402278
So if the cops shoot a black hashtag geimageito participant is it ok or wrong.
Need clarification.

>>270400190
I know you're just a dumb nigger on /v/ fresh from tumblr or Gaf but you should really look into the history of political propaganda.

Being anti-propaganda is a good thing, it has nothing to do with a persons values or political standing.

>>270398917
Kingdom death?

>>270402278
That's RMD or Commissioner Red, you may know him as the fatass who fell playing DDR. He is a troll who was permabanned from /sp/ years ago and has been banned on /wooo/. He now trolls on Reddit.

>>270402561
So Colbert just blew her the fuck out by merely asking basic questions anyone should ask?

Fucking based.

>>270402501
B+ lacking visual originality
>>270398194

>>270402565
>>270402692
see
>>270402737

>>270402618
I think reviews that end in numerical designations should be objective as possible. Leave opinions to opinion pieces.

>>270399846
They don't want to censor you, they want you to censor yourself. It's actually a lot worse that way, because they'll paint you as a villain while trying to ruin your career instead of being upfront about it.

>>270402780
There is a reason why Anita doesn't have debates or open lines of communication.

She is nothing more than a preacher or Evangelist. Comments closed

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>>270402780
The best part is that they had to edit the interview just to make her look better

>>270402895
>reviews should be as objective as possible

So they should benchmark the game and that's it?

>>270402780
you should look up satire some time...

If games are to be considered art, you can critique it any way you want but the videogames they consider mysoginystic is only their interpretation of the message the artist tried to convey with the use of ass and tittays. The artists are free to do whatever they want. If they listened to SJWs we wouldn't have half the nude paitings/sculptures we have today.

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>>270402897
>socjus isn't about censorship!
>we're just going to call you a racist/sexist/misogynists until you finally change your work so it becomes "correct" in it's portrayal of fictional people

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>>270394603
>taking a picture of your screen

literally women

>>270401248
>someone that writes for breitbart admires a tabloid
who could have seen that coming

>>270403098
Basically. See how great a video game it is by comparing it to competitors, then leave what you personally think to opinion pieces. I think that would be interesting.

>games are art unless it hurts my feelings then it shouldn't exist
>this is why everyone takes me seriously in the real art world

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>>270401557
I'm not even the same guy, Anon.
It's just that your post was extremely disconnected from what you were replying to or logic within even itself.
I mean, I support gg and I couldn't even tell whether you are an anti-gg calling gg tumblr or some shit.
It really did look like a bot post.
Your valiant efforts are a shining beacon for us all, but you seem to be overworked and in need of some rest.

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>>270397157
>Words like "self-confidence," "self-reliance," "initiative", "enterprise," "optimism," etc. play little role in the liberal and leftist vocabulary. The leftist is anti-individualistic, pro-collectivist. He wants society to solve everyone's needs for them, take care of them. He is not the sort of person who has an inner sense of confidence in his own ability to solve his own problems and satisfy his own needs. The leftist is antagonistic to the concept of competition because, deep inside, he feels like a loser.

>>270400320

Most people who resort to modelling do so because they lack any real skills and they're not smart enough to learn any. Unfortunately a lot of pretty average people think they're cut out to be a model because they're not cut out to be anything else.

I know a girl who wants to be a model. She's average at best but spends a shit load of money on photographers to take pictures of and photoshop her. To this day she's never had a modelling job.

>>270401186
But how can we argue with or against people who drink up her message wholesale especially when she's bastardizing concepts as simple as the third person effect.

I mean she literally said that the more you believe media doesnt effect you the more it does while invoking the TPE as evidence when a key component of TPE is that awareness making people more critical of what they consume and fighting against any messages that media tries to peddle them. This is common sense yet she doesnt lose any credibility and her ilk just lap it up. What are you supposed to do against such a massive wall of ignorance. It feels absolutely hopeless.

>>270402278
He's also a racist himself who wants all hispanics rounded up and killed and all of central/south america nuked.

>>270403234
>crying statue of liberty
>not crying samus

>>270403468

Why would you waste nuclear weapons on South America?

>>270402780
I want to debate her so bad. Having a 25 yr old NEET to debunk her fallacious reasoning and strawmen would ruin her.

I would be nice and actually agree with her feminist opinions, and show what a one sided pundit she actually is. She was a feminist in the beginning, but the money got way to great NOT to pander to radicals.

>>270401557
you should make a thread about it on your shitty tin can chan

Why do people give GG any attention? It's not a protest movement, or a sign of everything wrong with video game culture today...it's just a bunch of morons being stupid. Ignore them and eventually they'll die of stupidity.

I mean, I understand Vox sticking up for their corporate siblings at Polygon but why is New York Magazine giving these idiots unwarranted attention?

>>270403098
Depends. Do you prefer to read movie reviews form rotten tomatoes or christian mothers today?

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>>270396069
>our

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>>270402692
it is ok because that black person is an ungrateful slave

>>270403676
Because /v made this bed and now had to lie in it.

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>>270394603

>The people who want video games to be considered "art" are the same people who take issues with it being considered art.

>>270402103
That's debatable.

Would you consider the Nazi practice of labeling modern art pieces as "degenerate" as unethical?

Now obviously some dipshit at Polygon doesn't have a modicum of the authority that the Nazi regime had. They're not confiscating video games and arresting the devs. I'm essentially comparing a bank heist to shoplifting here.

But shoplifting is still stealing, and what Polygon is doing is still attacking a game and implying that it is dangerous, degenerate and unfit for civilized society.

But even if you don't consider that unethical, it is very clearly anti-aesthetic.

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>>270398271
Yes, because vivian is totally not a recolor.

>>270403620
>if i defeat anita in a competition over rhetoric she'll disappear up her own asshole

Yeah that destroyed Creationism.

>>270397313

Also, they don't want games in the first place, they want to complain about games. It's a group that doesn't play videogames telling companies to make games they won't buy, and telling gamers they have to play games explicitly designed not to appeal to them.

>>270403620
>>270403620
I do kind of want to sit down and have lunch with Saarkeesian. Some kind of innocuous place where we can just talk about the issue like civilized people. Then again theres absolutely noting to ensure I would get her true opinions.

>>270394603
>We want games to be considered art!
Who said this beyond tumblrites arguing that Bastion and shit like that is 2deep4fun?

>>270403676
Because they serve as a perfect example of sexism and misogyny in video games. We can only change it if we can point out what vile creatures gamers are.

>>270403620
Yeah, I feel for the fem cause too, but not over stereotypes.

I'd far rather put energy into shit like having governments hunt down and remove those kidnappers and killers/sellers into slavery of 300 schoolgirls.

I can do that too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwsPai-0Ov8

>>270395376
i feel that is a more reasonable discussion. if anita was just talking about that im sure no one would really mind that much

>>270404038
Bastion wasn't 2deep4u and I found the gameplay servicable. It was pretty good, all in all.

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>>270403365
it wasn't till after I posted did I realize he was a GG supprter and I was attacking the wrong man

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Whether you like their methods or motives or not, do you agree with what #GG is fighting for?

literally no one wants or gives a shit about games being considered art.

if women want to play, fine. fucking go for it.

but I want it all to stay the same. there are titties? good. lack of women? so fucking what, that's the way it's been. create more female protags and buy it, woman.

it's so fucking simple. jesus christ.

Allow me to enlighten you to the real goal of these feminists.

But first I have to explain the difference between equal opportunity, and equal outcome.
Equal opportunity is letting anyone take part in a marathon.
Equal outcome is expecting everyone to finish at the same time.

Equal opportunity exists and is protected by the law. Equal outcome is retarded and will never happen.

What feminists want is equal outcome, not equal opportunity. They expect the results of everything to be equal because if not it's sexist. If for example a man gets a job instead of a woman, it's sexist because if a man can get the job a woman should too. What they ignore is that the man was probably more qualified and/or experienced and the better candidate for the job.

>>270403676
It's not like the mainstream media can talk about anything else.

>>270403975
Well you have a point anon. But I fail to see how a public "champion of civil rights" being outed as a hatemonger would fail to diminish her image.

>>270394603
>Shut the fuck up, I'll fucking kill you
They really take the comments of vitriolic 14 year olds on the internet much, much too seriously. The picture is right though

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>>270404219
yes

wait why are you asking this when everyone that is "anti gg" here just pretending?

>>270404008
They see changing the media as a tool for social conditioning. They want to change the way that games are made, because they believe that in conjunction with changes in other art forms, it will change how women are perceived in real life.

They stupid.

>>270395123
Dumb picture. If the creator believes games should be made in variety and not for one demographic, why can't games that please misogynists exist? Games which, in reality, don't even exist yet.

>Because I believe in equality.
Ah, the creator is a faggot libtard. Makes sense now.

>>270403676
Because a large amount of people really don't want you liberal propaganda ruining videogames faggot.

>Now that videogames are art, we need to make a giant academia group dedicated to infiltrating media so we can shame devs into doing what we want

The fuck?

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Hey fuck this fucking thread. Not fucking vidya.

Let's post WW2 shit instead. Much more interesting than debating with faux feminist shiteaters. Who wants to see Tiger tanks?

>Fine, they're considered art
You lost me, OP. Nobody respects games outside of our own industry.

>>270404059
Well of course there a bigger issues in the world, why are you even in this thread anon? Why argue anything that isn't on the same level as global genocide/enslavement?

>>270402897
>They don't want to censor you, they want you to censor yourself.
Again, reread the sentence you just wrote.

They only reason they aren't boldly declaring for actual censorship is because they know that's a battle they can't win. I guarantee you that these people would shed no tears if the government began censoring media wholly in their favor.

>>270397157
In a free market, journalists should be allowed to discuss whatever they like, regardless of bias. GamerGate is against the free market full stop.

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>>270404272
>B-but muh studies about employers picking between identical resumes pick male sounding names over female sounding names

THE PATRIARCHY IS REALLLL!

>>270394603
People who look at art from the perspective of feminism, Marxism etc. are fucking dipshits. No matter whether its video games, epic poetry or sculptures.

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>>270404219

No.

GamerGate has basically turned into a shit flinging war at this point. Picture related is what both sides of GamerGate look like.

Not long ago, I looked on Twitter and several GamerGate related websites (including boards on that other chan website). 95% of what people talk about in relation to GamerGate is negative. They focus on trying to remove problem websites and people.

So I asked them, where is the focus on supporting and promoting good video game journalism. The most common response I got was "fuck off shill" and "sage".

This is in a nutshell GamerGate right now. GamerGate might have been good at once point in the past, but now it's about arguing with SJWs on the internet and if you don't agree with everything they say you are against them.

>>270404517
I like the crusader tank the most

Might be my hexagon fetish

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>>270403975

Really, it's the same shit as any other kind of for-profit woo. Same true-believer mentality, same insular structure where only the believers have a voice, same appeals to guilt and a desire for meaning overriding critical thought, same donate-for-salvation conmanship, different target audience. Anita is a 21st-century Peter Popoff for liberals.

>there are people who don't think that gameplay is an art form
It's the sole thing that sets the medium apart as its own. It is the main thing that warrants critique

>>270404517
we are literally dscussing how retarded daddies little soc jus is trying to slander vidya on news sites and radio shows

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>>270404517

>>270404576
I'm guessing they only did those studies on men employers.
Women employers would probably pick the female sounding name.

>>270404536
And so what.

You are still fully allowed to not give a shit what they think.

>>270404670
>GamerGate might have been good at once point in the past
It wasn't. It started as slut-shaming and went downhill from there.

Video games are not art.

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>>270404351
I have had friends tell me that they dislike how Game Journalists have been acting for the last few months now, but are too afraid to show support for #GG, be it just by posting on their dumblrs or twitters. I think they're afraid of losing followers or some shit, fuck if I know how Social media works.

Bottom line is, I feel that this is something a lot of people don't seem to like in game journalism, but are just too afraid to speak up about it.

>>270404272
>What feminists want is equal outcome

They don't even want that. They want to be the only ones that finish and trample over everyone else that runs the race. They don't even want to do it on their own talent, they want these people to lay down and be trampled.

>socjus gets introduced into the comic world
>all creativity died
>sales are plummeting
>dc and marvel can only survive because they make more cash with movies and merchandise anyway
>same shit happens currently to tabletop games and sci-fi/fantasy literature

Say, why don't you want some SocJus in your gaming, anon?

>>270395563

Art constantly changes definition to appease it's buyer.

Typically art is whatever rich faggots use to create a cultural distinction between themselves and the lower class, like bohemian culture.

Right now Art can't serve any particular purpose except invoke feelings and shitty modern art doesn't even need to do that.

These faggots are going by the "hidden motive" concept where they believe every art piece has a definite form of symbolism or is a form of criticism of something which is why they force shit like Bioshocks weak "Ann Ryand was a bitch" philosophy spewing or shit like gone homes "Muh lesbians you'll never understand 2deep4u" shit.

>>270404810
nah, son, women hate other women

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>>270404732
And there's not a drop of video game discussion in sight either. Stop with these fucking tertiary threads already, I don't wanna see em.

>>270404698
I'm partial to the Sherman's curves myself.

>>270394603
>games are art!
>therefore they must be changed and censored so no one is ever offended by it just like every other form of art!

Makes sense

>>270404670

>putting aside their methods, do you agree with GG's goals?
>no, I don't like their methods

>>270404940
So go make a thread you like better and people can post in it.

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>>270404940

>>270403796
well, at least SJWs are proving themselves more to be more extremely sexist/racist than the people they continuously complain about.

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>>270402897
>They don't want to censor you, they want you to censor yourself. It's actually a lot worse that way, because they'll paint you as a villain while trying to ruin your career instead of being upfront about it.
>Abloo abloo, my mom is making me clean up my toys
>SHE'S CENSORING ME

>>270405014

GamerGate doesn't have a goal anymore. Other than to argue with SJWs on the internet.

>>270404219
I believe it was Gandhi who said "I like your Christ. I dislike your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ," or something like that.

Of course I could say the same about SJWs. In fact, I'd sooner say it about SJWs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWw7LwIYHbA

this is the end game for sjw's

>>270401764
I don't disagree with you, but I think it doesn't really change what I said.

The most offensive of her arguments, and the one you seem focused on, is that a game can be harmful. Essentially, that misogyny in a game can cause its player to be misogynistic. And I agree, that line of reasoning is completely wrong and entirely unfounded in anything but feelings. But it's STILL just an opinion from a critic, even if it is an opinion that would damage the artform as a whole if instituted as some sort of rule.

I'm not saying her opinions should be given any credence, I'm just saying she should be allowed to say them, and people should be allowed to either agree or disagree with them. If a lot of people agree with a really, really dumb opinion, well, that's indicative of a larger problem. But to say she SHOULD NOT be able to express that opinion because it's based in a moralistic, political form of reasoning sort of uses her own logic. She thought dangerous games should be banned, and we think that idea is dangerous so... we ban discussion of it?

It's a tricky territory, and I know they're not playing fair by pulling out stupid misogyny cards to try to prop up their terrible arguments, but playing by their rules is going to convince no one. If one side is playing with facts and the other with bad substanceless ideas, one side is at a clear advantage and hopefully neutral parties, once they're properly informed, won't buy into the bullshit. But if we start trying to put a gag on her opinions, it becomes censorship vs censorship, which isn't going to convince anyone of anything. Everyone will just stay on their sides and nothing will be accomplished.

We can't just beat her. There's a thousand more Anitas waiting in the wings. We have to beat her in the right way. We have to prove her IDEAS wrong, not try to stop her expression of them.

Holy fuck games ARE art though. This isn't even up for discussion, games are art by definition. The majority of gamers would have agreed with this sentiment even decades ago. These fuckheads are the slow ones that need to catch up. An "art game" without gameplay isn't "subversive", it's bullshit and it's been done plenty of fucking times in the past. Gamers are more than ready, and have been since gaming began, to call games "art".

Why do these pretentious "progressive" fuckheads have to police and piss all over every hobby they touch?

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>>270405059
I would, but my threads always autosage because /v/ doesn't want to talk about video games unless it's inflammatory and full of shitposting or barely related to video games at all.

>>270404868

I wonder what would have been the mass reaction if a woman wrote an emotional blog post about how her indie-dev boyfriend had cheated on, lied to and abused her. Same result, do you think? Lots of tweets from Anita's chums about how it's no-one's business buy his own and a massive Patreon drive?

>>270404219
Yes, as long they continue to make companies pull ads from shitty game journo sites, I look forward to all of the anal obliteration.

I hear that SJWs are still blistered because of Intel.

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>>270405246

>>270404868
ayy lmao

>>270405246
you mean nobody posts in your threads and they get pruned. its cool you can pretend to derail this one noone cares anyway. this is all just to prove that gamergate can survive a discussion of gamergate and the quickest way to get rid of gamergate is to discuss gamergate

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>>270404891
Is SocJus an actual organization?
How close are they to taking away my big titted vidya sluts?

>>270405151
>he still needs a mom

>>270405151
>Games should be treated like art! Unless someone makes something I don't like, then the creator should be shamed into submission for his harmful baby toys

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how can people still be scared of the boogeyman? that's all sjw's are

>tfw ignoring both gg virgins and faggot sjw's

>>270397181
MLAIOS is an under-appreciated anime.

>>270400025

Gains and loses weight.

>>270405382
Its cool gamergate was mainly about attention whoring anyway
im glad you found a safer way to express yourself

>>270405151
No, its more like your mom is forcing you to take toys you don't want because she likes them.

>>270405371

Let's be realistic here. Pulling ads from places like Gawker is not achieving anything but making a few SJWs mad.

Gawker make an estimated $2+ million A DAY. Pulling ads might make them mad because no one likes losing money (especially jews), but let's face it, even if they lose a few hundred thousand dollars, that's nothing compared to how much they make.

>>270404576
You know that shit's retarded, because given everything else being equal anyone with a functioning penis would choose the potential nookie.

Remember when the La Gioconda was judge as being a tool of patriarchy?

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>>270405449
Yes nobody posts in my threads. I meant they reach page 10 and drop off, not autosage, my mistake.

>>270405591
I just wanna have an excuse to post this honestly. It's not like this thread was doing anything worthwhile so it's a good dumping ground.

>>270405478
Adult babies need adult babysitters.

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>>270404386
>he still thinks libtard is an insult

>>270405594
No it more like the irrational fear that when mom gets home she is going to throw away all your gi joes and buy you barbie dolls instead

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>>270405465
The revolution is eternal. There will always be a skirt too short and a bust too big.

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>>270405151
If they're just dumb baby toys why do internet feminists and SJW's care so much about them?

Maybe because men enjoy them and we all know CIS men are the root of all evil

>>270397371
>>270398995

LOL

Gamergate blown the fuck out eternally.

They can't even argue against this.

>>270405692
And this isn't some constipated expression of your own topic being shuffled off to some tin can chan noone likes?

>>270405483
>Implying the creator and the creator's friends should be the only person allowed to speak about their creation
I thought you guys were all about ethics?

But you're completely free to call critiques from a feminist viewpoint a load of moronic bullshit that exists to sucker in idiots to avoid starving yet another day with your worthless degree. I don't get it.

>>270404857
Not everyone has the brass balls that you and I have.

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>>270405836

>>270405882
I'm not sure what you're implying.
Believe me, I'd love to talk about Total War but after Rome 2 all anyone wants to do is complain.

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>>270405746
Hey guess what, you're more accurate

and you just reinforced his argument because that's what SocJus wants to do

>>270405889
Without a copypasta thread to tell them what to think they dont even know who to argue with.

>>270405746
>irrational fear

Yeah because it sure didn't happen in the past
>>270404891

>>270402148

I believe the reason moot seems like such a hypocrite is because he deeply hates anonymous and our tendency to try and test him daily with strenuous shit.

I'd imagine he'd want us to suffer as he has.

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>>270405758
Well fuck. If we cant fight em I guess we better go all out. Maybe if the see enough T&A they'll have a misogyny induced migraine and pass out for a decade or so.

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>>270406003

>>270405889
As explained numerous times in this thread, there's a difference between criticism and condemning something as a "harmful work of art created by a misogynist pig"

>>270405746
But you just said she was going to force us to "Clean up our toys". You know, the direct linguistic reference to cleaning up vidya.

>>270406003
The secret is in the OP it has to be specific enough to determine the topic but vague enough its not possible to rationally respond to.

>>270406003
if you want this thread to die you should post pony porn
dead ass

>>270394603
See the problem here is that is fine if art is criticised, but there can always be someone who likes the art.

The problem with games is that people are trying to criticise and fully change what it is about, not just offer up their opinion.

>>270394603
>we want games to be considered art
No?

>>270406003
then start a new thread

you aren't making a statement, you are just acting like a kid.

>>270406006
It's even worse, they want to take away the Barbie dolls too because they reinforce the female stereotype. Nobody gets anything.

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>>270395123
>becuase the individual is the smallest minority

>>270405838
This have been circulating in neogaf for a while kid, nobody cares, Milo made investigations for gamergate, trying to make character assassination againts him is proving that those investigations are causing panic. He can be a pedo for all i care.

>>270405283
Silly anon, women can't abuse men.
I actually think Eron is telling the truth but all the shit Zoe got was totally unwarranted and driven by sexism. There are proper ways to handle these things and doxxing isn't one of them.

>>270406170
My mom cleaned up my toys with a garbage bag.

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>>270406131

>>270406219
I'm just bored.

>>270406183
I'm not evil. Or autistic.

so the person writing this wants art to be subject to change after the fact ?

>>270402278
>Red Machine D
Go to Archive.moe and look that name up on /tg/. Or better yet, go to 420chan and ask about him on /woo/. See what you find.

>>270405636
>a few SJWs mad

A lot of them are still fucking mad. Brianna literally Wu, right after her segments with Huffington and MSNBC, stated Intel should continue ads on gamasutra. That was like several weeks after Intel left Gamasutra.

It may not be a lot, but it's definitely a lot more hilarious.

>>270404891
>sci-fi/fantasy literature
What's going on there?

I'm hoping on writing one day, and I doubt much I write would be taken kindly to by these critical theory and hurt feelings types. Not that it will stop me.

>>270406314

It's a good thing nobody doxxed her but herself, then.

>>270406339
Your mom wasted a lot of money.

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>>270406346

>>270406295
Isnt that the same guy who wrote some blog about being a cuck? and everyone said not your personal army and laughed at him and didnt start a hate club to stalk and frame his ex girlfriend?
yeah noone would ever be able to make him look like a loser.

>>270406314
She was never actually "doxxed' though. The address that was posted on her tumblr lead to a bike shop in hawaii.

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>>270406364
they believe that censoring is the best course of action and they call it criticism after they ruin the reputation of an artist and have him receive death threats

death threats all come from us by the way. since we're the perfect scape goat

>>270403463
I agree it is sad how easily we fall for this shit. I mean, like you said, she isn't even manipulating WELL, she's just obviously twisting things into half-truths and riding on a Jack Thompson-esque wave of emotions and gut feelings to an audience who agreed with her before she said a single word.

And maybe it isn't possible to convince some of the people engulfed in the weird little clique at the center of this. Maybe they're just too used to seeing it in the way they do. Maybe the goal should be just presenting the best argument we can so the more undecided parties can see our line of reasoning, compare it to the opposition's, and realize we make more sense.

I know that's an optimistic way to look at it. These people misdirect so often because it WORKS. The audience they're preaching to is swayed by arguments that are essentially:
>Person A: I think that [blank].
>Person B: What? No, [blank] is wrong.
>Person A: Only people who hate Person A's think [blank] is wrong, you bigot!!!
Yeah, it's frustrating and frankly scary how effective their shitty, thinly veiled manipulation is.

But there's nothing to do but keep trying.

Don't let them beat you with such bullshit. You just have to keep presenting your argument, and continually refining it, until hopefully their supporters scratch their heads and dwindle away.

I know two people personally who were extremely pro-Anita who have slowly gone through the stages of "anti-Anita is evil" to "anti-Anita is mostly bad" to "the bad minority of people against Anita outweighs any good points they have" to "wow i did not understand this thing at all when I started." One of them has backed out of the discussion altogether and the other has actually talking against Anita and co.
It's small progress, but people's minds ARE being changed.

>>270405636
They can be mad then, at least is something, they said themselves that they have been losing money.