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Where did it go so wrong for the Smash series,...
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You are currently reading a thread in /v/ - Video Games

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Where did it go so wrong for the Smash series, /v/?
>>
meta knight was so fucking meta
>>
Putting it on 3ds sort of sullied the franchise, butt it is still fine
>>
You could just adapt to the changes instead of whining about them.
Competitive smashfags are the worst.
>>
When autists decided to make a party game competitive.
>>
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>>270383050
Oh no, this super speedy and spammy character actually has to get close to the enemy to attack them.
>>
too much focus on anime humans
>>
>>270383319
This
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The series gets better with every new installment to everyone except for autistic tourneyfags, and no one gives a fuck about them
>>
>>270383319
This. I'm so waiting to get my copy for WiiU. The series is the ultimate fun. I'm still playing Melee and Brawl with friends and family.
>>
>The only god-tier fighter in Brawl has been severely nerfed to be equal with the others

HOW WILL WE GO ON?
>>
Tripping notwithstanding, nowhere. Smash was good in 1999 and it's still good in 2014.
>>
>>270383352
Why not give him a shorter sword so it's accurate to the new hitbox/range?
>>
>>270383050
They dont even bother to match the hitbox with the sword.
Poor metanit
>>
>>270383614
Yeah, not Little Mac is the new Meta Knight.
>>
>>270383614
Nerfing every single move from a character isn't a good way to balance him.
>>
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Smash is the only series that can continue to be casualized in all forms and be defended for doing so.
>>
>>270383614
this
>>
>>270383801
Sure it is. Why wouldn't it be?
>>
>>270383050
>>270383660
>>270383751
>>270383801
Have you ever made a game?
>>
>>270383614
I bet making Kirby trash in Melee was good too.
>>
>>270383850
Newsflash, the game is designed to be enjoyed first, be competitive second.
>>
>>270383050
When Namco took part in development, I guess. I don't know who was responsible for Meta Knight's changes.
>>
>>270383050

You could have posted an image of little mac and this thread would have probably gone a bit more your way

>>270383660
Then it isn't accurate to the source material and everyone would bitch even more
>>
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>>270383660
For aesthetic purposes, it needs to look like his normal sword.

For gameplay balance purposes, it needs to have shorter range.

Welcome to fighting games.

>>270383779
If you're losing consecutively to Lil Macs, you're just a shitty player. It's so easy to bait, gimp, and punish him.
>>
>>270384019
So no skill gameplay is fun now.
>>
>>270383779
No, Little Mac is just the equivalent of cheesy zerg rushes in Starcraft or something. He buttblasts casuals so hard they scream IMBALANCE at the top of their lungs, but is practically useless against good players.
>>
>>270383614
>to be equal to the others
>by making him significantly worse than the others
>>
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>>270383050
>playing meta knight seriously
>complaining about meta knight nerf
I'll be waiting in the tent of disappointment, so I can laugh at you.
>>
>god tier character gets proper nerfs

WHY YOU SO GAY NINTENDO.
>>
>>270384074
They could've shorten the animations, which they did for some of his attacks.
>>
>>270384074
>losing to Little Macs
>implying i'm not maining Little Mac
He's so much fun but he really is OP compared to the rest of the roster. Not invincible, just unbalanced.
>>
>people complain the fcuk about Meta Knight
>nerf him and make every other character actually useful

What's wrong?
>>
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>Always wait till last minute to write papers
>Huge paper due November 22
>Smash comes out November 21
>>
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>>270383850
It is already the most casual fighter on the market, with the most complicated button input being "press forward harder and A".

Complaining about Smash being casualized is like complaining about Mario Kart being casualized. You're not playing Gran Turismo, you're playing go-karts. You're not playing Virtua Fighter, you're playing sock'em boppers.
>>
>>270384119
If you put it like that, yes. But that's polarizing it. You clearly haven't played these games if you think it's not about skill at all.
>>
>>270384528
They've stopped being about skill since Brawl
>>
Before, there was Meta Knight Tier.

Now, there is Meta Knight Tier.
>>
>>270384430
It keeps getting simpler, which is bad.
>>
>>270384724
>i'm not good at the game anymore
>it doesn't require skill anymore
>>
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>>270384360
He's fun to play, I'll give you that, but he's hardly what you would call unbalanced. Even with the slowest fighters like Ganondorf or Ike, I have absolutely no problem punishing and baiting Macs. He's got an unbelievably shitty air game and he's so easy to predict because his moveset is so limited in its viability. His neutral B leaves him open for years and his up-B is practically useless unless you're just RIGHT above him, so make a fucking guess at what he's going to attack you with.
>>
>>270384379
Back when I was in University I once stayped up 36 hours, drank 18 cups of coffee, and wrote the best paper of my life. You should try that.
>>
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>>270384785
Does this mean there will be a Ganon Tier as well?
>>
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Just play a real character then.
>>
>>270384724
So you kept losing to a 5-year-old in Brawl, is that what you're trying to say?
>>
>>270383050
L-cancel
>>
>>270384074
>For aesthetic purposes, it needs to look like his normal sword.
>For gameplay balance purposes, it needs to have shorter range.

You could fill both these criteria by simply changing the animation such that his attack corresponds with the length of the attack. It's simply laziness that it doesn't.

It's important visual information about your attack.
>>
>>270384360
He's absolutely not though. I'm thrilled when I run into a Little Mac player. It's a free 2-0 every single time. He stomps scrubs because they don't have any concept of punishing or abusing a characters weakness. Just stay near the edge, throw his ass off. Use literally any move in the game to gimp him. You win.
>>
>>270384954
He's so fast that he can litterally feint you forever at no risk and attack when you make a mistake.

>dash forward
>dodge back
>dash forward
>dodge back
>dash forward
>you shielded or hit
>grabbed
>>
If you go from smash 64 and then melee, the amount changes blow your mind.

brawl on the other hand removed directional air-dodging, and added tripping and final smashes.
that's all it fucking did.

oh and footstools.
>>
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>>270385240
Same, and I main Ganondorf.

Toon Links are fucking annoying though, mostly because I have to try to penetrate a wall of projectile bullshit all around him.

>>270385453
If he can bait you like that, you're just predictable.
>>
>>270383779
>little mac
>the new mk

hell no. MK was fucking god in brawl and didn't have a single losing match up.

People are now seriously suggesting that shiek is the same. Which is beyond retarded.
>>
>>270384360

He's very polarizing, but not overpowered. Certain character give him a lot of trouble, like those that can effectively wall him away.
>>
>people defending shitty copy and paste from Brawl into Sm4sh
>after they had this long to develop it

t-t-thanks Nintendo

can't wait until the competitive scene for Smash 4 is dead in the water in a year or so. The game is clearly a shitty defensive projectile fest with terrible balance.
>>
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>>270383050
Jesus christ samurai he deserved a nerf but not this
>>
>>270385453
>he does this more than once
>run at him and grab, toss into air
omg so hard. what is punishing?
>>
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>Melee is balanced guys!
Every Super Smash Bros. game always has that one character that has bullshit hitboxes.
>>
>>270383050

Melee. All those shit newcomers and barely any actual new content, plus removing BASED BUMPER

Luckily Brawl got it back on track.
>>
>>270385965
fuck off tourneyfag
im glad the little details make you people so buttflustered. This new one is great so far and I can't wait to play it with my friends for hours while you continue to play the same game from 2001 for another 10 years
>>
>>270386192
yeah but at least Roy's weren't copy and pasted from the previous game.

At least they made new shitty animations
>>
Every entry after melee is objectively shit.
>>
>>270386192
it looks like the attack hitbox stats when he swings and doesn't continue forward with the animation
>>
>>270386087
The problem with Metaknight was that he was fast, powerful, had decent range, and had the most broken recovery in the game.

He DID need this. If he's going to stay fast and powerful, then his range and recovery need to be toned down.
>>
>nintendrones literally defending this
>>
>>270386336
>tourneyfag is an insult
Yeah fuck people who know how to play games and don't play casually
>>
>>270386336
cool, I'll keep enjoying myself as well
I'm fine with anyone enjoying the game just as long as everyone is aware it's a lazy copy and paste fest with shitty mechanics

At least it has loads of tertiary content like music
>>
>>270383352

He's really not that fast, his jumps aren't good compared to other multi jumpers, his damage output is the worst in smash history, has absolutely no range, and no kill moves

it's a little bit more than just his shitty sword hitboxes
>>
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>>270386382

Pretty much. They ported over the frame data for Marth's dash attack but didn't account for the fact that Roy swings his sword a bit differently.
>>
>>270386397
Killing his range or anyone's range to the point that the model doesn't even coincide with the hitbox is not a good nerf. Same goes for the other direction.
>>
It was patched a few days ago tho
>>
>>270383779

Nah, that's ZSS

She's better than the entire cast in every single aspect except weight, and when you have range, speed, damage, and KO moves that have nearly no startup lag the weight doesn't really make a difference
>>
>neo /v/ will defend hitboxes this outrageously terrible just because the character was poorly balanced in the last game
>>
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>>270386673
Hitboxes are weird.
>>
>>270385487
Smash 64 might be my all time favorite smash, sure it had less features than any other smash, sure it's probably just nostolgia

But god damn I love the combos you could pull off in that game, plus the noises it made every time you hit someone was just orgasmic
>>
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>>270386767

I gotta admit, there were always wonky hitboxes. There was Snake's invisible super knee, Kirby's up tilt, Roy, I don't know how they still end up doing this sort of thing.
>>
>>270387072
snake's uptilt was jokes

but i think the problem with this one specifically is that it's a lazy way of fixing MK
>>
>>270386169
You're not faster than mac. He can dodge this easily. Which is why it's a problem. He can literally just wait for you to do anything and have the time to punish.
>>
>>270387038
KONK
KREENG
That's the sound of timeless entertainment
>>
>>270386192
That's Project M not Melee
>>
>/v/ hates casuals
>/v/ hates people who are good at melee
>/v/ pretends to like the slow paced, 0 combos and random tripping shitpile that was brawl, just to feel better than melee players
>/v/ complains about melee rulesets without knowing anything about the game
>/v/ thinks tourneyfags looks down on casual
> it's the complete opposite
The anti-melee circlejerk might be the most stupid shit on /v/, it's a fucking vidya board, stop complaining about people being good at kids games
> m-muh party game
No ones stopping you from playing it as a party game, fuckface
>>
>>270387393
Eh, no.
>>
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>>270383934
>>
>>270387502
Tourneyfags in general are scum though.
>>
>>270387393
No, it's not? Are you blind?
>>
>>270383050
Melee went wrong, but things got better with Brawl again and then even better with Smash 4
>>
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>>270387393

You lost me.
>>
>>270383050
HAL Labs had nothing to do with it this time around.
>>
>>270383227
you're the exact same people who said dark souls 2 was better because the shitty hitboxes made it more difficult
>>
>>270383050
>Where did it go so wrong for the Smash series, /v/?

Brawl got rid of everything that made Melee a legitimately good game.
>>
>>270387814
>his sword fucking slices through the floor
>>
>>270386192
Melee is fairly balanced. All characters except the bottom 5 are useable, and even at the peak of competative play, you have 5 pretty much equal characters
>>
>>270383352
The thing is that the spammability also took a massive hit, the attacks still come out fast but have a lot more endlag now
>>
>>270384851
If simple is bad then it was already shit to begin with
>>
>>270387594
Only those who belittles the scrubs. Ive made lots of friends playing melee, mostly pretty cool guys
>>
>>270385965
It's okay when Nintendo does it!
>>
>>270387793
I nominate the person that made this post for Retarded Abortion of the year.
>>
>>270387793
>look guys, i dont like what other people like! Am i in /v/ now?
>>
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>>270384430

>there are actually people that think the complexity of a game is defined by the complexity of its inputs

what's worse is that these people actually believe they are hardcore because they play Street Fighter
>>
>>270388197
I hope they're not the Fox only, FD, no items type of people.
>>
>>270384430
>memorizing combos is more hard core than the most tech-heavy sandbox fightan of all time
Sure bro :^)
>>
>>270386421
ITS OKAY WHEN NINTENDO DOES IT
>>
>>270388629
You can't be retarded enough to suggest anything other than smash being the softest core fighting game. You just can't.
>>
>>270386192
>Melee is balanced guys!

I honestly don't believe I've seen anyone say this. I might be the biggest Meleefag on /v/ and even I don't believe that the entire roster is viable.
>>
>>270385487
What about crawling? Gliding? Wall Clinging? Elemental effectiveness? Pivot grabs? Reversible Neutral Bs? Even swimming and climbing? Eating food while lying on the ground? Theres a ton of mechanics that were added.
>>
IT'S
OKAY
WHEN
NINTENDO
DOES
IT
>>
>>270388509
No one's like that. You still play to have fun and to have a good time, and for some it's more fun when you play your best. I can understand that some dont, like how people play dota without trying, but some find it enjoyable to play their best. This whole "no fun allowed"-myth is just made by /v/irgins who want to feel better than their tourneyfag strawman
>>
>>270388804
>Smash
>fighting game
KEK
>>
>>270388509

you mean the meme that doesn't exist in real life? yeah odds are pretty good that's not the case
>>
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>>270386351
Yeah new shitty animations copy pasted from Marth.

You make no sense.
>>270387993
LOL pic related shuts out nearly every lower tier than her you shut the fuck up.
>>
>>270387072
the hitbox is in the blue part of the monado for that move bro, it does look awkward though, same for some of Little Mac's punches.
>>
>>270383050

I'm glad that piece of shit has useless hitboxes now. He ruined Brawl on every level, but of course people on /v/ will say otherwise because you're so fucking in touch with your inner casual, right? Fuck you people. You have NO idea how much MK shit on the very idea and core of what Smash is supposed to be about.
>>
>>270387393
It's Melee, dumbass.
>>
>>270388835
It think it's hilarious how everyone shits on tourneyfriends for fox only but simultaneously shits on them for P:M who's entire purpose was to stop fox only being the norm
>>
>>270387993
>all characters except the bottom 5 are usable

it ain't nice to lie, anon
>>
>>270386336
>I can't wait to play it with my friends for hours
vs
>Spending another 10 years making new friends, traveling, challenging yourself, discovering new things, surpassing personal obstacles, and enjoying a great game for hundreds, if not thousands, of hours.

Yeah geez sure sucks for us Meleefags.
>>
>>270383319
More like when autists decided to turn a competitive game into a party game.
>>
>>270383239
Whatever the game is shit and you know it.
>>
>>270389591

It's stupid either way. You hit them without needing to land the Monado beam on many other moves, but this one suddenly doesn't. It's strangely only a big problem against Pit and Dark Pit though, the other characters get hit by it fairly consistently.
>>
>>270389453
Only in the NTSC version bro
>>
>>270389774
Now it's Diddy, Lucas, and Mewtwo
>>
>>270389074

>crawling
>wall clinging
>eating food while on the ground
>elemental effectiveness

you tell me how often one of these mechanics makes a noticeable difference in a match.

>gliding

which then got removed in Smash 4 because of how lame it was

>reversible neutral B

is also in Melee and 64

>swimming and climbing

okay
>>
>>270383050

I hope it isn't /v/s influence, but sm4sh 4 really is starting to piss me off with how unbalanced it is. Then again, I never played any other smash competitively or kept up with the scene.

This shit is ridiculous, I just kill myself whenever my opponent is playing Duck Hunt and find a new opponent. Considering doing it with Little Mac as well. It isn't even that those characters are overpowered or that I can't win, but it literally is not any fun at all to fight them even if I do win. Rosalina may be the same, but I've only ever faced a good Rosalina one time.

I see what people mean about the defensive bias in this game, its so fucking obnoxious to approach sometimes. The landing lag just makes it worse, your opponent basically has to fuck up.

Also, they fucking destroyed my main nigga Olimar, I still win a good amount with him but if my opponent is playing an actual good character, I have to absolutely stomp them in skill to come out on top with Olimar.
>>
>>270389264
>Fox is not the most played character at EVO
Yeah it's totally a meme, that will show 'em
>>
>>270388804

only if you define how hardcore something is by how complicated its inputs are

which would be stupid
>>
>>270389921
what the fuck was Ike even doing there? Starting to charge his laggiest smash attack when he's about to get his shit slapped, and consequently exactly that happens.
>>
I never realized how fucking good Luigi is in Melee with basic tech knowledge

>Wavedash F-Tilt/Down Smash
>All aerials are godly
>mfw killing with the Up-B Sweetspot

god I fucking love this character
>>
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>playing against someone online in smash 4
>WFT vs Megaman
>he's beating me convincingly
>in the middle of the battle there's a brief moment of lag
>he suddenly starts playing worse
>realise that he sees this as a tainted battle and he is planning to eject
>>
>>270383050
>most noob friendly character gets nerfed
why are you complaining?
>>
>>270390135
>>reversible neutral B

>is also in Melee and 64
Brawl did add a bunch of stuff to this, like wavebouncing. But probably none of them were intentional. Like DACUS.

But yeah, Brawl added way, way less than Melee, and Smash 4 adds even less than that.

Content doesn't make up for gameplay. Smash 4 is pretty lazy creatively, no matter how much stuff it has.
>>
>>270390125
for someone who isn't familiar with P:M but is otherwise a huge Smash buff, tell me about Lucas. What makes him so good in PM?
>>
>>270389821
As long as you're not top 20 in the world, practically everyone is useful except for pichu, bowser, kirby, g&w and ness. If you're good, you can win with those too.
>>
>>270390125

and Mario
and Sonic
and Pit
and Roy when based Sethlon is playing
>>
>>270387959
yeah melee is so good, i mean it only has falco fox shiek marth and captain falcon as playable characters, but yeah its the "best"
>>
>>270390341
His nair is godtier, stops every combo
>>
>>270390267
Fox has only been this dominant in the last 2 years of Melee history. Before that, no one had the technical consistency for Fox to be everywhere in a bracket. Besides, the top 8 at Evo still had 6 different characters. That's pretty good. And that's overlooking the "FD only" part, which has never been even remotely true.
>>
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Oh, no. This extremely overpowered and overused character got nerfed! Stop the presses!

I wonder if OP is one of those autistic niggers who go to autistic tourneys with their meta knight plushies because they TOTALLY love him as a character.
>>
>>270390596
>Captain Falcon
>not Peach or Jigglypuff

you can try a little harder with this bait :^)
>>
>>270390596
nigga u wat

There was a Melee National yesterday where a Jigglypuff won, a Luigi took 3rd, a Samus took 4th and an Ice Climbers and another Jigglypuff were in top 8
>>
>>270390596
Your newfag is showing
>jigglypuff
>pikachu
>peach
>ice climbers
>dr mario
>samus
>>
>>270383574
precisely this
>>
Wasn't Meta Knight responsible for that 2009 or something brawl shitstorm that made tourneyfags look like a bunch of retards?
>>
>>270385227
Tourneyfags can memorize hitboxes and easily guess what will and won't hit.
Scrubs don't pay the much attention to spacing and the animation at the normal speed is probably too fast for them to notice the discrepancies anyway.
The real problem is when hit detection doesn't always work.
>>
>>270390439

you can B reverse in Melee, bro

its even easier in 64 than in Brawl, just input -> + b
>>
>>270390345
if there's a long laggy pause in the game and the opponent appears to start playing worse, that means the connection was lost and you're currently fighting some shitty-ass CPU.
>>
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>>270390596
>He believes in tier list relevancy outside of the highest caliber of players.

You're shit, so tiers don't matter to you. Don't worry.
>>
>>270390461

They basically made Ness and Lucas into space animals by letting them jump cancel their magnets. Ness still isn't that great because of his bad range, but Lucas has it all. Great recovery, amazing combos, doesn't have trouble getting in, tons of ways to get a kill, playing against him is frustrating. I'm not that great though, someone else could give better points than I could.
>>
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>>270390596

>Falcon
>viable

the retard speaks
>>
>>270391037
No, I know. I just mean that the b-reversing mechanics are more complicated in Brawl. You can reverse the attack, reverse the attack + your momentum, or just reverse the momentum. Only the first was possible in Melee and 64.
>>
>>270390090
Nobody plays the PAL version bro.

I'll admit that the PAL version is more balanced, but that's way post release in Japan and America.

She doesn't need the chain grabs to be honest, she still destroys them.
>>
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>>270390939
>pikachu
>dr mario
>samus

>Ooh, look at me! I am such an oldfag! I saw this one stream with noname dude killing another noname dude with those characters which means that they are totally viable and picked more than fucking almost never!
>>
>>270391059
Really? This surprises me
>>
>>270390687
He's barley dominant still. Out of the best 5 players, only one plays fox, and thats not even exclusive. I swear, anti-melee fags build the worst strawmen
>>
>>270390939
um no, peach and ice climbers maybe with yoshi, but not fucking samus jiggly or pika, they k.o. at 40%
>calling me a new fag in a smash bros thread
i had smash 64 on launch week
>>
>>270391236
Axe, Duck and Shroomed still top 8 basically any tournament they go to, outside of the hugest nationals (and even then, Axe's Pikachu will still top 8).

Pikachu and Samus are probably more relevant than ever before.
>>
So is Sm4sh better or worse than Brawl?
>>
So do you guys have any legitimate reason to hate touneyfags?

it seems ever since smash 4 has been announced the hate on tourneyfags has been more cancerous then the actual tourneyfags.
>>
>>270390596
>all these butt pained responses
>>
>>270391236
>who is axe
>who is shroomed
>who is plup
>who is hugs
Nice bait bro
>>
>>270391420
Worse
>>
>>270391323
...Not Jigglypuff?

Is this thread literally the first thing you've read or seen about competitive Melee?
>>
yet that fucking master hand finger snap gets you no matter what
>>
>>270391420
no tripping, 1v1 no items mode on flat stages, 10 thousand times better than brawl.
also super armor for slow-hard hitting moves makes DK viable
>>270391421
they are just like other gamers who only play one video game
they only play one video game
>>
>>270391215

oh, my bad. I wasn't really paying attention and thought your greentext wasn't directly related to your comments on wavebouncing, etc. Never played Brawl competitively so I'm not sure how it works.

Frankly I would like to learn more about the mechanic, since I've been playing PM lately. My preferred method of ledgehogging from a distance is to running shorthop, sideB behind me for turnaround. But sometimes Roy actually starts moving backwards instead of just turning around and I totally drop the edeguard. Can you explain how it works?
>>
>>270390461
He's got a combo/punish game that is on par,if not better than spacies. I'm talking Touch of Death Marvel shit

He has a million options(For Approaching, Killing, Recovery, Mixups, Shield Pressure) the majority of which are safe as fuck

There is no range in which he is bad, he can kill you anyway he wants (Spiking you down, off the top, from the sides)

He's also not a fast faller which means it's harder to combo him
>>
>>270391198
Hax pls go
>>
>>270391323
Jiggly wins tournaments all the fucking time bro, and Axe's pikachu wrecks good foxes. Samus has the best survivabilty in the game also.
>>
>>270383574
>brawl
>better
Surely you jest.
>>
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>can't get good at real fighting games
>have to settle with playing smash
>>
>Meta Knight got nerfed so Smash 4 is shit!
No, that's a good thing. What's not good is scrapping DI completely and putting a retarded vector system that also allows for unintentional spikes. This isn't a problem for Mega Man's bair because you mainly use it for gimping anyway, and Palutena's nair has shit starting lag for it to be useful to spike, but shit like a Greninja aerial that I can't recall right now is very fucking troublesome with the broken down vectors.
>>
>>270391437
>i was only pretending to be retarded
>haha u guys got troled!!
>>
>>270391323

>this person believes Yoshi might be viable, but not Puff

forget newfaggotry. you have brain damage
>>
>>270383050
Am I considered a masochist if he's still my main?

I know Olimar mains are.
>>
>>270391604
>They only play one game

But that's wrong. I have yet to meet a tourneyfag who literally only plays Melee / one other game, ever. Most of em are just gud at it, so they go to tourneys and play more than other games.
>>
>>270391841
>>270391860

it just goes to show how fucking emotionally attached to tierwhores you people are, and that you let competitive gameplay effect your view on a casual party fighter
thanks for proving my point
>>
>>270391420
Better than Brawl, worse than melee
>>
>>270391604
Oh yeah, apart from the vectors super armor is pretty fucking bad too. It's like they played Street Fighter 4 or some shit and give super armor to moves that don't need it at all.
>>
>>270392112
>some scrub post a retarded tier
>correct scrub
>"LOL get a life nerd ahaha who even cares"
You are posting in a smash thread, on a video game bord you know.
>>
>>270390439
>>270390135

Melee is when they actually got a budget, you can't compare it to 64 because that game had 0 budget compared to Melee's rough and hard development. Smash 4 is building upon the others without changing too much to make it uninviting,

Honestly come up with a new mechanic without being complicated and I'll take back all I said
>>
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OFFICAL P:M CANCER LIST

IF YOU MAIN THESE IN P:M YOU ARE CANCER

>PIT
>LINK
>DIDDY
>LUCAS
>PIT
>MEWTWO
>PIT
>SONIC
>>
iframes.

GET GUD
>>
>>270391421
Everybody has reached their breaking point from all they've had to put up with since Brawl.
Project Manchildren constantly shilling on here doesn't help either.
>>
>>270392223

The only things I don't think needed armor are some of Mac's smashes. Ganon punch is useless anyways, may as well give it armor.
>>
>>270392365
Does P:M even have online play? Are you assuming that these threads are full of tourneyshits?
>>
>>270391604
>enjoy melee
>be good
>play with equally skilled players because its more fun
>"anon why do you hate fun"
;)
>>
>>270392346

reimplement wavedash and map the input to dpad left/right

super armor was a good idea that they've already added
>>
>>270392365
>if you play characters I can't beat, you are literally cancer
>>
>>270390341
melee luigi is the best incarnation of luigi by far
>>
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>>270391715

>can't get good at Melee

>have to settle with KoF 98 and Super Turbo
>>
>>270391715
What are these almighty "real" fighting games you speak of anon?
>>
>>270392365
Does P:M tourneys are with turbo on or off?
>>
>>270389089
OKAY
NINTENDO
DO
IT
>>
>>270391715
>tfw good at Smash Bros, but have nervous breakdowns at tourneys and fuck up
>>270392365
This is correct
>>
>>270392623
>new mechanic
>reimplement
>>
>>270392585

u srs m8? every multiplayer Gamecube game and Wii game ever made has online play

as for Project M in particular: http://www.smashladder.com/
>>
>>270392896
Turbo is always off, Turbo is more a For Fun thing as opposed to a serious competitive mode
>>
>>270392430
>all they've had to put up with since Brawl

yes, people pointing out how shit the game is must be very hard for you to deal with
>>
>>270393073
Really? But Turbo is so much better.
>>
>>270391236
Yoshi
>>
>>270392948

new input, tho.

>>270392896
>>270393073

I honestly think Apex should run a turbomode tourney
>>
>>270383779
Little Mac is only OP against beginners.
>>
>>270393153
>people pointing out how shit the game is
>but we're the victims here guys!
>>
>>270393186
Turbo just straight up breaks the game because characters now have infinites

Like Toon Link and Zelda now have infinite combos

Jigglypuff can catch you in infinite Rest because hitting Rest means you can Jump Cancel it into another Rest because it comes out on frame 1
>>
>>270393073
>Project: M
>For Fun
I thought it was made because Smash got too fun.
>>
>>270393282
Doesn't make it a new mechanic.
>>
>>270392610
i like melee
but my friend picks terrible stages on purpose so i just switch to captain and wrekt him
>>
Oh no people actually have to git gud as Metaknight
>>
>>270392340
wow not the same guy but every time theres a smash threads the tourney crowd doesn't fail to make me feel better about myself. Thanks for being a sperglord about a party VIDEO GAME.
You do know its a VIDEO GAME, you know?

>in b4 I get called normalfag like its a bad thing
>>
>>270393419

I can't understand what you're trying to imply with this post.
>>
>>270393549
But project M is fun doe
>>
>>270393507
whatever turbo is im glad its not part of smash 4
>>
>>270392365
>Not knowing your matchups

Me and my zelda's would like to have a word with you.
>>
>>270392623
First thing it's not new, that's like saying airdodging is a new mechanic if you map it to the d-pad, besides air dashing/dashing is already a thing with some custom specials which are legal in tourneys.
>>
>>270393549
I never understood this. Project M just wanted to make Brawl not a slow sack of shit and try and rebalance the game. Just because other people are playing the games for a tournament doesn't mean you have to.

>>270393742
Most people don't play it so it doesn't really matter anyways

>>270393817
Fighting Pit and Link as Wolf is just awful
>>
>people are actually defending misleading garbage animations

LOVING

EVERY

LAUGH
>>
>>270393703
Exactly.
You're too socially inept to understand why your dickhead behavior generates a negative backlash.
>>
>>270393507
But allowing every character to make sick as shit combos is fun.

You could do things no one would believe are possible.

Why does Tourneyfags hate fun? It's so hard to go back to slow as shit gameplay in non-turbo mode.
>>
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>>270394190

so you're literally just assmad that people have pointed out how shit Brawl is

perhaps /v/ is not the website for your sensitive delicate feelings
>>
>>270388804
>footsies and pokes until someone misses a read
>hitconfirm into max damage combo
>repeat
SO COMPLEX
The only thing truly hard core about fighting games are the mind games.

Smash is not a fighting game. It is a game where you fight, but it is not a fighting game. Name anything considered a fighting game where you input away from the enemy and it does your forward attacks behind you instead.
>>
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>>270393549

u wot m8. Project M is tons o fun

webm related: undedited Project M footage
>>
>>270394374
just go play Marvel or Smash64 if you want sick Touch of Death combos
>>
>>270394023
Mind your spacing and get those shines down mister!

Your a space animal you live a life of stuggles despite what people say.
>>
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>like meta knight ever since superstar
>excited when he was in brawl
>never actually played him a lot because my friends would shit on me for it, instead end up with olimar
>3ds version comes along, get excited because it seems meta knight is a bit more balanced this time
>instead of balanced he's absolute horse shit
>>
>>270383050
Cry about it.

As long as the two versions can't play against eachother it's considerably less of an issue.
>>
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>>270394443

>The only thing truly hard core about fighting games are the mind games.

well, that and the unnecessarily obfuscated inputs. having to do a 720 in order to ultra means the games is HARDCOER, rite guise?
>>
>>270394405
I'd like to remind you the start of this conversion was someone whining about the hate directed at tourneyfags.
>>
>>270383050

i'm glad he is back. even if they nerfed the shit out of him.

I like Meta-Knight :3
>>
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>>270394683
How do I beat Zelda as Wolf btw

My friend always fucks my shit and I don't know what to do
>>
>>270391376
>Duck

lmao
not even best Samus East Coast
>>
>>270393672
Get out, filthy casual
>>
>>270394405
This.
>>
>>270394562
The only time I have fun with P:M is when I play with friends with turbo, I've played tourneyfags and they're no fun
>>
>>270393672
So people actually caring about gameplay in a video game makes you feel good about yourself?
>>
>>270387905
nah that wasn't me
>>
Melee fags are the SJW of the fighting community.
>No SF is too hard and I don‘t want to put in the time, let me just play this party game "competitvely" and make up bullshit terminology so I feel equal to you guys
Deepest of lol's and it amazes me that you don't declare winners according to who has the most fun because it‘s a party, you autistical shitstains.
>>
>>270394562
How do you suck so much you fall for that so hard that you get instantly KOd?

>Fox literally walks straight into Roy expecting him to do nothing
>doesn't even try to evade after being thrown
Is this CPU?
>>
>>270395117
We saw your post the first time.
>>
>>270394857

you mean >>270391421 ?

I would say the whining started with the persecution complex in >>270392430
>>
>>270394634
I play Smash64. But I want turbo tourneys.
>>
>>270395242

yeah its a CPU, the video was made for demonstration purposes.

doesn't mean you can't load up the game and to this to your friends. it's not like it's particularly difficult for Roy to land a grab
>>
>>270395242
it's probably a CPU

but in fairness, the first grab is a punish on a whiffed fair and he techs away on the platform but Roy reads it

so there is some escape attempted
>>
>>270395340
>Ask if there's a legitimate reason for hating tourneyfags, and claiming they get it the worst.
>Not a persecution complex.
>>
>>270390367
because his animations doesnt match with the hitboxes
>>
>>270395190
Melee is fun, SF is not. And how is that even related to social justice? Honestly the weakest strawman Ive seen.
>>
>>270395190
>LE EPIC PARTY GAME MAYMAY

Please explain to me exactly what is a party game and why smash is one ,but something like powerstone isn't.
>>
>>270395441
>and to this to your friends
If your friend doesn't know how to jump or do aerial dodge sure you can do that. But any shitter would at least move the stick to the side and get away from that from getting destroyed.

The roy is good though, them air attacks were great.
>>
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>>270393672
>>
>>270395653
i thought powerstone was.

or maybe its because i'm a casual
>>
>>270395679

>If your friend doesn't know how to jump or do aerial dodge sure you can do that. But any shitter would at least move the stick to the side and get away from that from getting destroyed.

u wot m8

Fox is in hitstun starting with the second grab until the end of the clip, he never had a chance to jump or air dodge
>>
>>270394961
You want to stay a 3-4 character distance the majority of the match and apply pressure, wolf has a sick dash attack and be sure to take advantage of your out of shield options when zelda short hops.

Once zelda is in the air, wolf can combo her a bit but not as much as other characters. Wolf's up air is the shizzy.

Zelda can be punished pretty hard if she uses nayru's on the ground like a dumbfuck, punish that shit with a forwardsmash or a grab.

I don't know how to DI as wolf unfortuanetly but DI high on side tilts, away on Dtilts.
>>
when neckbeards decided that there are elements of a competitive fighting game akin to SF2 in melee and made up a big pile of shit based on broken mechanics and glitches.
Not only that you had to ban half the game's stages and characters for it to even work,
The ''No items, Fox only, Final Destination'' didn't come from nothing
>>
>>270395190
I hate SF and other fighters that aren't Marvel or Bloody Roar.

You wanna know why? Because they are FUCKING BORING

>top kek use these inputs and stuff haha so fun
This is boring.

Smash is good because it's about positioning yourself and smacking the other guy
Bloody Roar is good because if you are in trouble just transform into a huge bat and beat the shit out of your opponent
Marvel is good because you just press shit and stuff happens.
>>
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>>270396068
>Not only that you had to ban half the game's stages and characters

there has literally never been a single character banned in Melee. wot u talkin bout m8
>>
When they didn't make it a 2d fighter
>>
>>270395934
>Taking pride in being a casual
Go back to reddit pls
>>
>>270395945
It wasn't nobody considers powerstone or any smash knock off a party game. The only reason people call smash a party is cause its a meme
>>
>>270395190
>autistical

You're a funny guy. Have fun with your made up terminology in your fighting game designed in a medium to cater to children. I hope you enjoy this moral victory on an image board dedicated to chinese cartoons.

I think meleefags are pretty autistic, but SF and other fighting game fans are just as bad, if not worse. You're like the soniggers shitting on others for having fun with their childrens' games while toting their mature games for mature gamers like themselves.
>>
>>270395653
It's a game meant to be enjoyed with friends in a casual enviroment, like Mario Party or Mario Kart or... SSB.
I take you've never played 2.
>>
>>270396091
>Marvel is good because you just press shit and stuff happens.
You sound like a filthy filthy casual
This is why fighting games are dying
Because of faggots like this guy here.
>>
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>>270395190

>yet another SF babby that was too casual for Melee

I'm sorry you got bodied and decided to blame it on the fact that you were playing on FD. you missed out on the best 2D fighting game ever made
>>
>>270395967
There is no way he can't dodge that. Pretty sure the hitstun last only when you are going up.

I know for sure Sonic would get away from that.
>>
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>>270383050
Wow. This is awful, and just when I started thinking of picking him up when Smash 4 Wii U comes out.

It's bad enough my opponents can dodge so quickly as it is, but now it looks like I'm going to have to try even harder to hit them with those god awful, pixel-wide hitboxes.
>>
>>270396362
I would still beat your ass by just pressing random shit on it.
>>
>>270396408

I honestly don't know what to say, other than "you're wrong." If you know what the animations for hitstun and freefall look like, you can watch the .webm for yourself and see that the Fox never gets out of hitstun.

Maybe you're used to Brawl, where hitstun is drastically lower than in Project M and Melee?
>>
>>270396295
Fifa isn't a party game, it's a sports game.
>>
>>270395691
>>270395103
Thanks, here to stay though. Sorry about your secret nerd club.

>>270395148
Caring about gameplay is one thing.
Being a sperglord over a party game is a whole 'nother ballpark.
Especially when you act smug about it.
>>
>>270396241
>smash knock off a party game.
Outside of Sony All-Stars, Smash knock-offs don't even get acknowledge in the first place.
>>
>>270396460
>being a scrub
Training mode is there for a reason, if you need timing, hitboxes, range, just fucking use it and git gud instead of whining. Pretty sure Meta Knight is C+ or B- anyway.
>>
>>270396295
That has nothing to do with gameplay wihich what determines a genre and not to mention I can play any game allowing 4 players in casual environment, and Mario Kart is a racing game, and no one is retarded enough to deny it has racing elements, unlike with smash where the game clearly has fighting game elements
>>
>>270396827
Who says I'm whining? I'm just pointing out what a travesty it is. If Sakurai is going to nerf someone, he should do a better job of it, at least. I have no problem practicing with characters, as I do it all the time.
>>
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>>270396534
oooooooh, heeeeelp
I'm literally shivering for me life here.
Someone is trying to establish dominance with button-mashing as his main offense.
Do you realize how reatarded you sound?
Go to sleep fuckface, it's past your bedtime.
>>
>>270384851
>>
>>270397035
>being this mad because you would lose a game against a fag
Not even him but you are pathetic
>>
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>>270383050
>META FAG GETTING BTFO'D
Keep them tears flowing
>>
>>270394735
He takes some getting used to, but he's actually really fun. Give him a shot.
>>
>>270396362
>fighting games are dying
Pretty sure stream views are undergoing a rising trend, m8.
>>
>>270397013
At least he had his time to shine. Meanwhile my top main has always been shit.
>>
>>270397035
Bring it nerd, give me your PSN+ so we can fight
>>
>>270386516
>casual is an insult
>Yeah fuck people who play casually

why is that any different?
>>
>>270397524
Get the fuck out casual shitlord.
>>
>>270390461
He's given space animal levels of offensive pressure and KO ability without their major weaknesses (ie being very susceptible to combos and having mediocre recoveries).
>>
>>270391315
>>270390687
You guys are acting like the top 10 players in what the fucking world make up the community? They don't do that shit but the tourney fags people on /v/ do bitch about aren't fucking armango or whatever the shit his name is. Its the fucking fags who are "working on pro status" but haven't been in a single game so they just fuck up no age grouping local tourneys
>>
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>>
lmao at all u autists complaining over and over about a fun easy fighting game being fun and easy. not everyhting has to be NATURE OF A MAN- deep 4 u
>>
>>270397518
>Paying for online
>>
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>>270397654
i'm not the casual, cunt
>>
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>>270397814
CUM
>>
>>270397814
cum
>>
>>270397834
Sometimes a fun game is just a game.
>>
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>>270390461
>>
>>270397728
>mediocre recoveries
If they are below the stage and have to up B maybe. They have more angles and options than most of the cast. They actually have decent/good recoveries (if we're talking Melee here)
>>
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>>270397814
COME
>>
>>270396404
How does being a SFbabby make you miss out on darkstalkers 3?
>>
>>270397918
>not paying for games
Pirate scum.
>>
>>270398038

that fucking piece of shit upsmash

pls nerf
>>
>>270391236
One of my friends only plays Samus.
>>
>>270398076
HAIL BANANA
>>
>>270398076
COME ON
>>
>>270398174
The fact that dair combos into itself is a far worse offense.
>>
>>270397814
COME
>>
>>270397752
>Armango
>let me pretend I don't know there names so 4chan thinks I'm super cool
>>
>>270383050
Meta Knight deserved a nerf. In Brawl, he had incredible speed, incredible combos possibilities, great damage output, great mobility, lot of ways to kill, no recovery lag on his moves, most efficient recovery of the game, great range, and the list goes on.

Now what did they do to balance the character ? well they just removed ALL his pros, leaving him only with cons and making him the WORST character in the cast by FAR.
>>
>>270397814
COME

>>270398076
HAIL BANANA
>>
>>270387238
>can't punish little mac's rolls
kek
>>
>>270398113

>infinites
>>
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>>270398038
>>270390461
again, as a person who tried his hardest to play Lucas in local brawl tournies that magnet cancel shit in PM makes my dick rock hard
but it also makes me feel dirty knowing that this only happens in the fanmade mod and the feeling I get is a lot of people playing it hate Lucas for being broken?
>>
>>270383357
I have to agree. Absolutely nobody wanted 4 FE characters. 3 would have been pushing it. The roster is oversaturated with characters that nobody gives a fuck about.
>>
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>>270386192
ahem
>>
>Smash fans thinking they know shit
>Calls recovery frames "lag"
>>
>>270398563
It's okay he's getting nerfed anyways

P:M has yet to butcher a character to shit so he'll be fine
>>
>>270398535
>Chaingrabs
>>
>>270398398

I still wouldn't call him the worst character. His moves still come out quickly and his recovery is still good. He was heavily nerfed though.
>>
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>>270398374
I gain very little by watching people so far out of my league play, I really don't care who is better then who. If you're a player you will understand, focusing on learning how to throw a spiral not who wins the super bowl
>le psychic medium face
>>
>>270398626
Recovery already has a different meaning in Smash Bros.
>>
>>270383050
This really fucked me up when I was MK. It's not just that you need to be right up their ass now, it's that half of your fucking hits don't actually connect.
>>
>>270398563
People do hate Lucas and Mewtwo for being broken.

But who gives a shit? That never stopped Metaknights in Brawl.

>makes me feel dirty knowing that this only happens in the fanmade mod
what

Do you feel dirty when modding Crusader Kings? Or Mount and Blade? Or Oblivion back in the day when it was good? Or Titan Quest? Or Rome Total War? Mods are made to fix games, faggot.
>>
>>270398750

DI
>>
>>270398596
Robin is absolutely fine, and it's Lucina or nothing. Palutena is a goddess, DP is an angel and a doppelganger. Most of the "anime" shitposting is against Shulk, which is ironically less anime than Captain Falcon.
>>
>>270386714
And this post got completely lost
>>
>>270398905
I didn't mean it like that. The modders obviously didn't get it fixed right the first time either if they're planning to tone down that shit
>>
>>270398626

'endlag', not 'lag'

as >>270398834 mentioned, the term 'recovery' was explicitly used by the game's tutorials and manuals to refer to the act of returning to the stage, so a different term had to be coined to avoid confusion
>>
>>270399115

It was ignored because it's an unsubstantiated rumor.
>>
>>270399152
As any mod ever. It will keep getting fixed until the modders get bored.

Hopefully these chucklefucks never get bored because I want more stuff.
>>
>>270398802
That's fine and dandy but that's the equivalent of me saying who cares about that basket ball player Michael Snowden or whatever the fuck his name is
>>
>>270398626
Recovery means capability to return to the stage.

Sub genre of platform fighter has different terminology that traditional fighter. News at 11.
>>
>>270399115
Because it wasn't patched at all.
>>
>>270398535
>Getting caught in infinites
>Not grabbing/countering
>>
>>270399115
Because it's untrue.
>>
>>270390856
>Oh noes, the devs are so fucking lazy that they nerf a character hitbox without changing the character model to match the hitbox.
>Let's avoid the problem and insult people instead!
>>
Brawl
>>
>>270399296
yeah, I will say that brawl modding as a whole is really great for a console game, even if I haven't touched the crown gem (P:M) just yet.
>>
>>270399115
Because it's false.
>>
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>>270383050
>Luigi got his recovery nerfed to shit
>has even less friction
>nair is no longer kills at 100%-115%, instead it's from 150% -190%
>Up+b has even more landing lag

I'm gonna miss you nigga
>>
>>270399115
because it's incorrect
>>
>>270399494
There is literally no reason to not try it when it's a PC mod.
>>
Charizard with a glide would be pretty unstoppable.

Kind of miffed it's gone. Sometimes when I fuck up and hit side special I need some way to recover.
>>
>>270399581
Man, that sucks. I can't know that feel yet since my 3 mains are newcomers, but 2 of them will probably be cut in the next and the other will be butchered to hell and back.
>>
>>270399637
except for the part where my laptop is pretty shit for playing games
and the part where I'd have to buy a GC controller -> USB adapter before I'd be able to enjoy myself
But it all does work on the console itself too, thankfully.
>>
>>270400040
Yeah that's true.

>having only a laptop
the fuck

Why aren't you PC master race yet? It's clear as day console gaming is dead.
>>
>>270400171
because I'm a poor student and also a filthy nintendrone
>>
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>>270383050
>putting it on the 3DS
>not even giving you the decency to use the d-pad instead of the nub
>dropping unique characters for 3 straight-up clones
>wavedash spam ruins spacing and the flow of the game
>too many characters have too few recovery animations on too many attacks and making it a bitch to hit spammers
>projectile spam everywhere
>running through enemies because you're rollin' around at the speed of sound the moment you try to move forward
>fucked up movements, projectiles and low recovery animations on basic atta ks give nobody any reason to move from one spot
>EZ counters
>the Captain Falcon, ZSS and Rosalina circlejerk everywhere
>the Smash community talks about how the game is all about deep skill and mindgames
>in actuality the community is full of scrub-a-dub spammers that play like total shit

I blame the Melee community for being such fucking autists and bitching about how flawless Melee was despite their game of choice only being competitive when 90% of the content has to be stripped away. The series was never super great to begin with.
>>
>>270400690
>90% of your complaints are about Smash 4
>IT'S THE MELEEFAGS' FAULT!
>>
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What's MetaKnights favourite thing to eat?
An orange
>>
>>270383050

Serves you fags right for maining an S-tier character.

Now only true Metaknight fans will use him, just as nature intended.
>>
>>270400998
This is fucking golden.
>>
>>270400690
why would you willingly put yourself through the pain of playing smash with a dpad, and the 3ds dpad, no less?

There is no wavedashing in the game as of yet

Projectile spam has been overall nerfed, it's easier to deal with now that shielding is so strong

Characters having less recovery frames on moves makes offense more viable

everything about this post reeks of someone who has no idea what he's talking about
>>
>>270400690
>big list of complaints that mostly either apply exclusively to Smash 4 or to every game in the series
>"I blame the Melee community"
Really, anon? You're better than that.
>>
>>270400998

I don't get it
>>
>>270400690
>wanting to play smash on d-pad
how the fuck would you smash and tilt?
>>
Fighting game hitboxes are generally never accurate, but it's usually the other way round with massive phantom hitboxes.

Yes, it's stupid. I'd like just one game, just one, where the hitboxes were a 1:1 representation of the actual attack.
>>
>>270386397
But he's not powerful anymore. No range, barely any moves with knock back. I have been getting into MetaKnight this smash and I gotta say they did too much nerfing. I can't beat anyone with him, and gitting gud with him now seems impossible
>>
Balance is the weirdest shit i've ever tried to wrap my head around for competitive games. What is imbalanced changes from person to person, and not even P:M can apparently balance brawl.

Seems like the only way to create perfect balance is homogenization.
>>
>>270401324
Timing
>>
>>270401549
How would you walk?
>>
When they put in megaman over zangief
>>
>>270401331
VF is pretty close.
>>
>>270401324
I used to play Brawl with just the Wiimote all the time. I don't really remember how it worked, but I recall it working well enough.

>>270401664
It's like Kirby IIRC. Double tap to run.
>>
>>270400690
>wavedash spam ruins spacing and the flow of the game

wat

I thought you were talking about Smash 4
>>
>>270401664
>Implying people ever fucking walk in smash
>>
>>270401462
>What is imbalanced changes from person to person,
That's incorrect. What is imbalanced might be perceived as different from person to person, but under actual analysis there can be found definitive advantages and disadvantages.

You are confusing people's opinions and biases on what they think is balanced with what is actually balanced or not.
>>
>>270401848

it's very important

hell, in Brawl and Smash 4, you can't even do any ground normals besides dash attack out of a dash, since you can't wavedash out of the dash. you need to be walking in order to use tilts and smashes
>>
>>270401848
Most did in Brawl because you had more options out of a walk than out of a run.
>>
>>270401462
Yeah balance is a weird thing. You can't have one character capable of everything though, or have an ability that completely disregards other playstyles
>>
>>270402026
I do in Smash 4 most of the time too. Running is such a fucking commitment, even just shielding out of it takes a while and I can't fucking do that pivot thing for the life of me.
>>
>>270401331
Skullgirls?
>>
>>270402073
>an ability that completely disregards other playstyles

Melee puff says hi lol
>>
>>270401253
no range
>>
>>270402015
>you can't do any attack out of a dash while sliding forward
not that big a melee player, so that sounds broken
care to explain how it isn't?
>>
>>270402512
Because you can deal with it like any other attack?
>>
>>270402512
He means that without wavedash, you can't do any attack from a dash that's not a dash attack. With wavedash, you have all your options available while being in movement.
>>
>>270402512
Are you stupid? That's a staple of the series.

The thing is in Melee with wavedash you could do any attack and move at the same speed as dashing.

In shitty Brawl and Smash 4 you can only do the basic dash attack because fuck you, that's why.

Attacking with the dash attack is fucking suicide. Just shield+grab and kill your opponent.

But Sakurai hates tourneyfags so anyone with any brain will beat the shit out of shitlords that dash.
>>
>>270383050
ater brawl
>>
>>270403283
>staple of the series
>in one game
>>
>>270397814
COME

>>270398076
HAIL BANANA
>>
>>270399927
And then there's ness, which got his precious dair destroyed. It's almost impossible to meteor with it now.

Atleast every other character I used got buffed (Ganondorf, DK, Cap falcon and jigs)
>>
>>270402329
Yeah but at least Puff has some large tradeoffs. Manlet, ZSS, and Space Peach have little to no downsides
>>
>>270403501
You are aware dash attack is in every smash game, right? You do know this.
>>
>>270403557
>Manlet

you're not trying to imply that Lil Mac doesn't have downsides, are you?
>>
>>270403609
I'm talking about doing ANY attack.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but when you mean ANY attack, does that include grabs?
>>
>>270403798
And I was talking about dash attack.
>>
>>270403541
>Ganon and DK got buffed
How? Ganon is unchanged and DK's neutralB has twice the charge time. I have noticed they both eat shields now though
>>
>>270403541
Ness got buffed in plenty other ways, fortunately. He probably would've shot straight to the top tiers if he still had his old dair, but I think he still has plenty of potential in smash4.
>>
>>270402015

You can still up smash, grab and do pivot attacks, but pivot attacks aren't really that great if you ask me.
>>
>>270383050
You kinda sound like you feel bad that the most broken character in Brawl was nerfed.
>>
>>270383614
>3DS metaknight
>equal with the others

This is what feminists believe
>>
>>270403918
Warlock Punch has armor now.

>>270404027
They'll be a lot better on Wii U where it'll be much easier to do the input, I reckon.
>>
>>270384360
>He's so much fun but he really is OP compared to the rest of the roster
Other way around, pick Rosalina and you can win without even looking.
>>
>>270383050
What the fuck system is B?
>>
>>270398596
>>270383357
Oh my goodness people still are bothered by the AESTHETIC of the characters? God forbid there's human characters, especially since Shulk and Robin have some of the most unique mechanics in the series.
>>
>>270404046
Or rather, not balanced properly. Make him weaker and take away the priority, but at least let him keep the range and some of the speed.
>>
>>270403918
DK isn't shit the second he jumps anymore. His dair is awesome as fuck now. DK's B punch was nerfed in Brawl anyway, so the charge time doesn't really matter much.
>>
>>270403787
Super armour on almost every attack, fuck you counter (which can be used mid air), no-lag smashes (also with super armour), and a free KO attack that carries over into FG
>>
>>270400690
>>dropping unique characters for 3 straight-up clones

fucking stop this shit
>>
>>270404278
He was hated and everyone whined that he was broken, it's fitting that he's been nerfed, nobody wants to see him, hell his inclusion was just Sakurai bias since it's his own character and boy did Mac needed to be over him back in Brawl.
>>
>not just playing 200 speed metal bunny hood sonic
>>
>>270400690
>>not even giving you the decency to use the d-pad
you couldn't be able to do tilts and smashes otherwise, just one of them.
>>
>>270404526
It's fine to nerf a character, but not this much. He already did it with Kirby in Melee, and that was awful.
>>
>>270404407

you named a lot of good things he has, but that doesn't mean he has no downsides.

he has a shit recovery and no aerial game whatsoever. strictly speaking, those are downsides
>>
>>270404632
Timing
>>
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>>270403918
I mean, the new physics help them alot. Ganondorf feels smooth like butter and he actually kills pretty quick compared to most other characters. People bouncing off the floor when they get meteored make his dair and down b alot more menacing. Best of all, Ganonciding (Pick related, 1000 thousand years in Gamemaker's paint) will usually make ganondorf win, making it an excellent table turner.

DK had his jumps greatly increased (or atleast that's what I feel), has a usable dash attack now, eats shields with almost every attack he does and had his dair buffed. You shouldn't be charging your DK punch until you kill someone anyways, which makes the higher time to fully charge neglible.
>>
>>270404643
>but not this much
It is, why wouldn't you nerf the most hated, broken character that would MAKE PEOPLE STOP WATCHING when picked? He was that bad, fuck I'm surprised he didn't cut him outright.
>>
>>270404740

He feels even less smooth to me, but that's because they got rid of the short hop autocancel Dair. Come on, did he really need to lose that? It was the coolest thing about him in Brawl.
>>
>>270404750
Because there are people that legitimately liked using him. And if he's not fun to use, why even bother to pick him.
>>
>>270404738
So I can't do tilts as fast as I can do smashes is what you're saying?
>>
>>270403918
Ganon is actually playable now, his new superarmor on warlock punch means that you'll be able to actually land a hit this time. All the Ganondorf players noticed this.
>>
>>270404925
I do miss that, but people would just spam projectiles at me anyways.

Another thing I didn't like is that his upperchest no longer meteors. It will just send people flying away horizontally, which can be nice, but I wanted to send them down, it just makes the move alot more inconsistent..
>>
>>270404407
it's like you did not read the post you're replying to at all.
>and a free KO attack
eheh, no.

He has 0 airgame, something extremely vital, throw him once in the air and he's a fucking goner.
>>
>>270404740
Like I said, feels mostly the same. I did notice DK's now faster. Like he actually fights like a gorilla now instead of some muscle man
>>
>>270404935
>Because there are people that legitimately liked using him
There's people who also liked Pichu, doesn't mean they have a right to live on this planet.
>>
>>270405215

improving Warlock Punch doesn't solve any of Ganon's problems. certainly not when you can just grab through the armor, anyway

they could make Ganon invincible during the startup animation and make it an instant kill that deals 999% damage, but it would still be a pretty shit move.
>>
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>>270383319
>When autists decided to make a party game competitive.
>>
>>270405538
And original character = clone.
>>
>>270405356

they killed the nipple spike?

why??
>>
>>270405356

Well, they still spam projectiles now anyways. I just feel like I have no options against a grounded opponent when I'm in the air because Ganondorf's aerials have a billion years of landing lag. If I want to hit someone grounded, I have to stay on the ground, which isn't a problem with a lot of other characters.
>>
>>270405573
Just use it as a counter of sorts, big risks have big rewards.
>>
>>270405667

are you implying that

>Kojima agrees ideologically with the Patriots

>the existence of smash tourneyfags is due to lack of conflict in social discourse


or something equally retarded?
>>
>>270405680
It's not their moves that matter, it's how shitty and unlikable they are to the point where Meta Knight is fucking abhorred and would make people stop watching whatever stream that had him, not everyone is keeping up with all the details changed between games, this is the closest you can get to removing Meta Knight but still keep him.
>>
>>270405373
I just was listing all the crazy advantages Mac has against other characters. Not really an even tradeoff
>>
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>>270404740
>Some fucker in For Glory has a lead on my Ganon, either I just let it happen because they had trouble landing their killing moves anyway or they were actually decent at the game
>they begin their second stock by unleashing a pure offensive assault and get me offstage
>flame choke the fucker and dive into the abyss
alternatively
>total scrub gets killed early by warlock punch/utilt/smash attacks/offstage dair/uair
>bait him into flame choke at the start of the second stock to end the match in under 30 seconds
never gets old.
>>
>>270383050
what if it is actually marth's hitbox that is broken here
>>
>>270405573
The whole playstyle of Ganondorf is about punishment. Warlock Punch isn't just an attack you throw out in a combo
>>
>>270405745
>>270406329

the only way to land a Warlock Punch is to either have your opponent walk directly into it, attack you with a laggy move while you're charging it, or break his shield, and the only way either one of those situations is going to happen is if you're playing against a certifiable retard.

you can't even use it to edgeguard and punish whiffed sweetspots with swag, since Brawl added that stupid auto-sweetspot on all upB recoveries
>>
>>270405716
Tip: use his uair or nai and fast fall as you use it. They don't have the landing lag of the dair, hit hard and sends enemies flying horizontally so you can land safely.

I feel like ganon is alot more limited in the ground than in the air.

>>270405710
Utter bullshit, I know

>>270406134
Based ganoncide. I was getting destroyed by zero suit samus and I managed to take of one her stocks, next thing the fucker does is send me to the edge and stay there charging a smash attack. Needless to say, I won that match.

>>270406329
This is truly the only way to play as ganondorf and be succesful. He has to shield and dodge until the time is right.
>>
>>270406698
I agree, the warlock punch is near useless. However, his uptilt is great for punishing recoveries as it hits people below him thanks to the explosion.
>>
>>270401324
>>270404632
Kinda late and the thread is completely dead by now, but
>push direction and attack at the same time: smash
>hold direction and push attack: tilt
That's how it worked on Brawl when you used a Wiimote. It's pretty simple and easy to get used to.
>>
>>270406698
>Flame Choke + Warlock Punch against a get up attack
>mid air Warlock Punch against utilt, land and attack after sponging a hit
>corner someone against edge, Volcano Kick to down shields + any attack
There, three ways to land it off the top of my head. You've just gotta learn the mindgames
>>
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What a shame.
>>
>>270407365
>Flame Choke + Warlock Punch against a get up attack

I find it hard to believe there's not enough time to shield or spotdodge before Warlock Punch comes out. Show me a clip of it being done and I'll believe it.

And unless you're talking about some incredibly long utilt animation (like Ganon's lol) I don't think there are many characters that wouldn't be able to get out of the way afterwards, even if they landed the utilt
>>
>>270407365
>Flame Chocke + Warlock Punch
I can't test that right now but I'm assuming that you could get up attack and still have time to roll it. If you timed it early enough for that to not happen then the opponent probably has plenty of time to react.
>air WP against anti-air attempt
Same situation as before. Can probably recover and dodge before it will actually hit them and if you do it to early they can react or it may just go over them.
>volcano kick + any attack to break shield
By volcano kick you mean down b right? If so, if that hits the ground it has a ton of recovery so you'll probably get punished. If not with how good rolls are in smash they probably dodge the followup anyways and with how quickly shields regenerate in this game your shield break progress will be gone really quickly, especially since you're the slowest character in the game in terms of horizontal movement.
All of that is incredibly gimmicky shit that will only work against bad players, if at all.
>>
>>270407791
the Flame Choke + Warlock Punch thing isn't a guaranteed hit, it's just a good mixup- if you Choke + Dtilt a few times, they'll start trying to tech backwards or forwards, and you can land a Punch.

It's not super-reliable, but it's still good.
>>
>>270391714
>>more characters
>>more modes
>> more music
>> more trophies, challenges
you an autist? He said gets better, not worst
>>
>>270408551
Don't forget
>worse gameplay
>>
>>270408080
volcano kick is his up tilt

wizard's foot is his down special
>>
>>270408080
>By volcano kick you mean down b right?
No, I meant his up tilt. Can't really use that one all the time though. has to be someone playing defensive with no projectiles. Also have to line up outside their roll range so they get caught in the vacuum

>>270407791
It can't be something you spam like >>270408403 said. Most people don't expect you to throw it out there so they get caught off guard
>>
There are too many characters.
>>
>>270408551
>worse gameplay
>>
>>270383227
It didn't sully the franchise any more than Brawl did. 3DS may be holding the WiiU version back but at least it's still a fun game.
>>
>>270383050
When they added Ice Climbers
>>
>>270410213
I'm glad they removed the ice grabbers and let us have glorius 8 player smashes
Thread replies: 438
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