>Ocarina severely flawed but pretty revolutionary in a lot of ways
>Majora does something really unique with the series and has a good tone
>Wind Waker feels nice but there's a lot of tedious aspects to sailing and using the wind waker and there aren't enough dungeons
>Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword are dumbed down shit
Gentlemen, how do we save 3D Zelda?
>Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword are dumbed down shit
OoT was just as easy and was less fleshed out and refined.
Nothing about any Zelda game approaches the level of being genuinely difficult.
>Majora does something really unique with the series and has a good tone
>aren't enough dungeons
Are you seriously saying that Majoras is better on that front?
Despite only having four of the weakest dungeons in the 3D series.
slutty facial expressions is my fetish
Speaking of Zelda 2 and 3D games, who else has played this?
>Gentlemen, how do we save 3D Zelda?
Make another Zelda with WW's combat.
And use Legoman's Zelda design.
>not enough dungeons in WW
There are 7 dungeons in WW you pleeb. The game has way more content than it's predecessors too.
You don't 'save' 3D Zelda, it's the same thing every generation.
Maybe you're too old for a kid's game now? Instead of mindlessly holding on to the same thing year after year, try something new.
>Ocarina is severely flawed
I mean it's not perfect but it's vastly superior to pretty much every other 3D Zelda.
That is always so full of fucking shit.
An outrageous amount of people on here fucking loathed Twilight Princess when it came out. I think people just remember it fondly now because of all the Midna porn and now they don't have to actually play the game.
Ocarina wasn't severely flawed. Maybe it is to you now, or maybe someone who is younger, but you should be aware how ground breaking it was and how flawless it truly was when it was released.
>borrow Skyward Sword from a friend
>get most of the way through it
>never have a problem with controls or calibration
>really liking it
>he takes it back for a few months
>recently get to borrow it again
>pick up from where I left off
>no idea where I'm going
>having shit problems with controls
>taking way too many hours to remember how the controls work
Is there any videogame character stronger than Link? And I'm not talking about Young Ocarina Link. I'm talking about Fierce Deity Link with the Perfect Fairy Sword and Lon Lon Milk and all pieces of heart and with twilight princess sword techniques, his Light Arrow, a perfect Mirror Shield and control of Din's fire and Farore's Wind, with Zelda's Magic implanted in him so he also has telepathy and precognition
I played Majora before Ocarina and could never get into Ocarina. I never really felt it was that great in content anyway. ALTTP felt more epic (classical sense of the word) and adventure-like than OoT.
>Gentlemen, how do we save 3D Zelda?
I don't know Anon, but I'm sure that Asura - and I'm not talking about Six-Armed Vajra Asura, but in fact about Asura The Destructor, in his silver winged form, using the Karma Fortress Engine to control the full power of his Mantra of Wrath while backed up by Chakravartin the Golden Spider returning him from Naraka after every death, while holding Wailing Dark at its full 360,000KM length in his mouth and flying at multi-FTL speeds, using the Destructor Gauge for unlimited special attacks and scoring Excellent ranks on all QTEs - would be more than a match for him.
Hmm. I played OoT the year it released. It was my first Zelda. Didn't own the console, but I bought the strategy guide and spent every weekend at his house playing the game until baseball season started.
There's still nothing quite like that first time you start the game, with the dream sequence and the flyover Kokiri Forest. The first time you step into Hyrule Field and the theme starts up, reaching Death Mountain and Zora's Domain, and then all of the time skip stuff.
Nothing like it before. And not much like it since.
>Ocarina severely flawed but pretty revolutionary in a lot of ways
>more emphasis on progression through items rather than progression through story
>have small branching paths for dungeon progression, like LttP and OoT
>no blatant padding
>dynamic movement, like what SS did but expanded further
>combat system that is fluid and fun
>intriguing new world to explore, not too big but not too small
>plot that isn't complete shit
People always say that Ocarina is "severely flawed", but I have replayed the original version recently, and I have no idea what the fuck they mean. There's occasionally a few wrinkles, but considering the game was basically writing the book on 3D action/adventure as it went, I think it's forgivable. I feel like anyone declaring it has "severe flaws" is just a babby who can't look past the old graphics and sound.
bones are for proper proportions, which results in a more realistic body.
vast majority of drawings like these have terrible ratios and are way out of perspective.
people suck at it.
I'm pretty sure anyone who says OoT is severely flawed is just baiting or catastrophically retarded. It has a few issues here and there, the fucking menu being one of the worst offenders, but otherwise it's perfect.
>everyone always bitches about link just being another hero of time, when he actually had a backstory this time
>somehow is the worst for having an empty overworld when literally EVERY 3D game had an empty overworld
It takes too long, and is the primary reason why the Water Temple is so infamous.
On that note, the fact that OoT has only one "ugh it's THIS part" section really says something about how well the game was structured and designed compared to its successors.
>Having no clue about videogames
>Being unable to difference personal preferences from objective quality
>Shitposting for the sake of shitposting
>Probably samefaging or just circlejerking about being contrarian faggots
>They do it for free
Name a game with a worse hatebase
Legoman is so disconcerting. He drawn the anatomy pretty well, especially the ass. His shading is fantastic.
But those fucking faces. It's not that they're bad, it's that it's the only face LM knows how to draw.
When he draws Zelda, she doesn't feel like Zelda. Because you probably saw that same face on one of his other creations 1,000,000 times.
I much prefer Sawao. Pic related.
The world was even more barren than Ganon dominated Hyrule.
No tyrant would want a piece of that Gaza strip.
Well, Legos done Animu Bugeyed shit
I'd gladly take Dicksucking face over this generic crap
I thought Oracle of Seasons had some hard bosses
I always figured that Ocarina's successors were improvements, but in reality it's easily the best complete package of a 3D Zelda game.
I had never tried to do a "speed run" of a Zelda game, but I decided I was going to sit down and beat OoT in less than a day, and I was fucking astounded at how well the game facilitates this. It's entirely old-school in its determination of not getting in the players way. No filler, no pacing issues, no bullshit required fetch quests. You can hop from dungeon to dungeon and the adrenaline level never drops. Screw all the sidequests and just make a beeline for Ganon, and the game won't screw with you. But if you want it, all the extra content is there, and its rewarding.
Majora's Mask is a great game, but the whole thing is one giant pacing issue due to its time travel mechanic. That doesn't make it bad, but the shameless filler rammed in between every dungeon to make the game seem longer is annoying. Finding Twinrova in the swamp, trying to shut up baby goron, the goddamn Zora eggs and the motherfucking bottom of the well fetch-quest really kill my resolve whenever I replay this game.
Wind Waker is also a great game, but once you explored the great sea once, it becomes a bit tedious, and the missing content and substitute filler in the game is painfully obvious and destroys your momentum.
Twilight Princess is big for the sake of big, and pads shit out to no end. Almost an hour to even get into your tunic and be ready for the first dungeon? Bullshit. Finding the tears of light and all that crap just adds to the pacing issues. Great bosses and dungeon design, though.
And Skyward Sword was basically a blueprint on how to do everything wrong in a 3D Zelda. Fetch quests, dowsing, forced backtracking, Fi leading you by the nose to every fucking objective, and repeat boss fights where fucking miserable.
It's really quite obvious that Aunoma doesn't know how to fucking direct a Zelda game, since OoT was Miyamoto's last.
Only problem I ever had with SS is that it was shit at registering a "stab" motion, luckily the only part of the game that required to do those quickly was the semi-final boss
>tfw you'll never play a Zelda Souls game that isn't completely dumbed down
I don't even give a fuck what people would say. I'd play the fuck out of a Zelda game directed by Miyazaki any day.
The Souls formula is perfect for a Zelda game. Babbies get fucked.
As it stands, the Zelda formula is stale as fuck. Boring ass overworlds with no content, easy as fuck puzzles and dungeons, braindead combat, the same basic story with an ~epic twist~, it's getting fucking old.
WW had a flooded world map and still had more soul and content than the fucking Town in TP.
You understand? a fucking ocean had more content than a blooming valley. How did they managed to miss at that? it's beyond understanding.
Actually TP isn't a bad game, nor a "bad" Zelda game, but the giant flaw is how the overworld was designed or rather, NOT designed and how mangled the story is at the end.
>It's Ganon again anyways guys!
Also there weren't any sidequests or mini dungeons to explore or - nothing - besides the main story, which by then, you realize is linear as fuck, it's just disguised between traveling instances.
How many times in other Zeldas you were going for the main quest and got entangled in the side stories and characters and exploring and discovering many other stuff? WW had that, TP does not.
Still it IS a good game, it's just... a bit of a letdown.
Old Zeldas look like they're meant for children, but had adult themes and gameplay on it. TP looks like mature but it's the childiest Zelda of them all. The combat is as easy as God of War and even less.
>Twinrova in the swamp, trying to shut up baby goron, the goddamn Zora eggs and the motherfucking bottom of the well fetch-quest really kill my resolve whenever I replay this game.
Nigger that shit aint filler, that's legitimate content.
Finding the zora eggs in the pirate fortress was no different from doing the Gerudo fortress in OoT, for example.
Gibdo well can be pretty fucking annoying, I have to give you that.
Tough to say. Playing Ages first gets you some more insight into Queen Ambi's history, but playing Seasons first gets you a cool Donkey Kong style mini game where you save Zelda.
Ultimately, I'd say it's negligible.
>Babbies get fucked
Yo I love the souls series, I put a collective 1,100 hours between DeS and DaS. But this whole elitist mind-set and sucking of Miyazaki's dick has got to stop.
The souls series is novel, it is great, but it's not like the holy grail or some shit jesus fucking christ. And besides, a Souls/Zelda game would be terrible.
What I'd like to see is a Castlevania game with the souls approach.
Why do people fucking try to compare the two series, I don't fucking get it. They both set out to do radically different things and approach game design very differently. Fucking dungeon design in the Souls series is total shit too, what the fuck.
Zelda games are about exploration and dungeon crawling and item progression at their very core. The recent 3D zelda games have lost sight of that or have dumbed it down a fuck load.
I'm not saying you need Dark Souls combat in Zelda or anything, but as it stands Zelda is flawed to its fucking core. Everyone just keeps giving high praise because it's a Zelda game.
Time after time, standing up while playing Skyward Sword proves to be the key to unlocking it's full potential.
Yes you look like a fucking dweeb but you are LINK and you are on a MISSION.
Finding the Zora eggs is WAY different than breaking out of Gerudo Fortress. Gerudo Fortress just requires your wit and fighting ability. Getting the goddamn Zora eggs is shit that requires you have a ton of bottles, keep backtracking, and then you've got to go follow some damn seahorse out in the middle of nowhere to get the last couple. It's filler.
that doesnt change the fact that it was mostly sail from Island X to Island Y along this huge empty sea
Or you warp and then finish the game in half the time because you realize how short the game is
Maybe, maybe we can call everything "linear", still I had a better time in WW, and recall much more from WW than TP. The characters and story were charming.
TP had very few charming moments. The yeti was one, and uh, i guess Midna was pretty cool.
At least finding the spiked ball weapon was a nice surprise.
Windwaker as a game is terrible. It's only saved by its amazing art and sound design.
OoT as the first of its kind is great. There's very little filler, the dungeons aren't piss easy, and the combat and enemy variety, while repetitive, can sometimes be challenging. The sound design is also great and the graphics were amazing for their time.
TP has its moments but there's a shit load of filler and the combat is still too easy. Lots and lots of hanholding.
SS is easily the worst 3D Zelda and it just goes to show you how far the series has fallen. Each successive 3D Zelda has gotten worse.
Well let's not pretend Zelda was never about rolling around.
>TP combat is too easy
>OoT combat is challenging
what the fuck am I reading
>Tfw you'll never play Windwaker with more fully realized, unique dungeons on top of what already exists on a map that is 60% of the original size.
3 dungeons for the pearls plus 4 or 5 for the triforce pieces would have made WW GOAT
For every bit of 'filler' between MM dungeons, I bet I could point out the same type of stuff happening in OoT. That's the Zelda formula and MM didn't do it any better or worse.
>want to do dodongo cavern?
>gotta go to the lost woods to get the song from saria
>want to do the shadow temple?
>gotta go to the bottom of the well to get the lens of truth
>want to do the water temple?
>gotta do frozen zora's domain first to get iron boots
Mario flourished when going into 3D, as did Mario, Metroid and a large number of series. I'm sorry that Castlevania hasn't found a director or team competent enough in delivering a quality 3D switch-over.
I think a part of the problem is that WE ALREADY DID IT IN OOT. You fucking said it yourself, it was no different.
Plus, in OoT you could pretty much go from dungeon to dungeon most of the time, but Majora's Mask constantly had you doing shit in between dungeons so that you didn't realize how fucking short the game is.
Zelda's appeal was a dungeon crawler game.
It's actually funny to think that Dark Souls is more Zelda like than new Zeldas.
Not saying Zelda should be hardcore grim and dark, but it surely needs the gloomy tones and obscure parts to contrast with the happily seeming world.
Because you are Link, the Hero, and it's your work to fight horrible things that these lovely people can't. It's your destiny to jump into the horrors that lurk below with your trusty sword and shield and bash evil with it.
It's the path of the knight. That's the ADVENTURE of it.
>amazing art and sound design
And free roaming nature.
And monster design.
And dungeon design.
The game's only flaw was the unnecessary size, but hey, last I checked, world-ending floods didn't happen in a way that was particularly convenient for anyone who happened to survive.
It was great to begin with, but it's stagnant and 'just fine'. It may never be 'great' again. Because once you've explored the same Metroidvania theme over and over, it gets boring.
Except ALL of those Ocarina of time "fillers" involve you exploring new areas or completing mini-dungeons and fighting enemies to complete.
Majora's are all fetch quests that don't allow you to set your own pace.
>Majora's Mask constantly had you doing shit in between dungeons so that you didn't realize how fucking short the game is.
But I think you're looking at it the wrong way, if you ONLY count dungeons as being the game proper. All of it is the game, and it's all fun (mostly). Do you seriously only enjoy playing the four main dungeons, and NOTHING else? Not the Lost Kingdom of Ikana, or the Couples Mask quest, or any of that shit? Finding all the masks was a great sidequest, in my opinion, as some of them are fucking hard as shit to find if you don't have a hint.
Wind Waker is about the experience
>Talking shit about Twilight when it had the best weapons
>Talking shit about Skyward Sword when it had the best puzzles.
>How do we save 3D Zelda
Aunoma just told you back at E3 you manchild.
The pacing of Zelda is very different from Souls, especially if you look at something like LttP.
Zelda has bouts of overworld exploration which are pretty laid-back and let you gather some cool shit, followed by dungeons full of challenges in the form of enemies or puzzles.
Souls is pretty much always hostile, and unless you're in Firelink, you're constantly avoiding getting fucked up. Souls doesn't really have "puzzles" either, the environment just tries to kill you. Also item progression isn't really a factor.
While I agree that recent Zelda is way too dumbed down and story focused, Souls isn't similar enough to be the solution.
>want to do Woodfall Temple?
>gotta go find the twinrova, do the boat shit to kill the octorok, plant the bean, STEALTH SECTION YAY FUN, get the song from the monkey, and other shit I can't remember because there's so much shit you have to do
>want to go to Snowhead Temple?
>gotta follow the spooky, get the lens of truth, get the mask, do goron stuff, get the hot water, melt the old goron, get the song, calm the baby, and do other shit I can't remember
and I can keep going
Majora's Mask had a NASTY habit of stretching out the sections between dungeons, while OoT was relatively quick to the point.
make it challenging
no hand holding fairy telling you what to do every 5 minutes
sequence of events propelled by player's curiosity and exploration of overworld
colorful and vibrant
return to subtlety
music that gives me the chills
boots of some kind
side quests that are fun and interesting and worth my time
Why do people hate on Skyward Sword so much? It was pretty great, the motion controls were pretty good, even though I would've preferred normal controls, and sure Fi was annoying but the dungeons and bosses were great. I enjoyed it a lot, and boss rush mode was a lot of fun too.
I loved finding the masks and doing the Ikana Valley stuff, but most sections between dungeons were horribly boring and tedious. They actively make me NOT want to play the game again.
Zelda's done for until the team realizes
>adventure and exploration is most important, focus on this
>the games are becoming a chore to fucking play Give players an option to skip them/turn them off at the beginning of the game, or remove them in general
>hey guys challenge isn't a bad thing, ya know. Gives us hero mode from the start, and either make good puzzles or remove them all together
>revamp the combat. Witcher 2, Severance, Dragons Dogma, and Dark Souls and good places to research.
>give us some fucking replay value god damn
>include internet features outside of miiverse in Zelda U, maybe let players create and share dungeons/cave of ordeals/quests and add PvP of some sort
Nintendo won't do any of this shit though. Prepare your assess for SS 2.0
Yeah that's a shame, he never finished that Zelda comic and now he only makes comissions.
>Majora's are all fetch quests
>finding your way through the lost woods to rescue koume
>sneaking through the deku palace
>fighting aliens at the ranch to get epona back
>racing the beavers to get a bottle at the Bay
>the egg sidequest stretches out for a while so yeah i gotta give you that
>go to ikana graveyard, use the captains mask to talk to skeletons
>entire ikana castle mini dungeon
>everyone hates gibdo well I guess
And one thing I like is that MM is pretty dense. You can easily get sidetracked from doing one thing and get caught up in another, like mini games and mask/heart piece hunting.
I really want the combat to be expanded. And not just a bunch of other shit thrown in, I want it to be a lot tighter. Like your average bokoblin and lizalfoes would still be easy to fuck up, but a Dinolfoes or a Darknut would be hard. In OoT there were17 different strikes you could do. 4 strings of combos, each with 4 attacks plus the jump strike. I'd really like it if they made use of the horizontal/vertical/thrusting variations of those strikes to make sword fighting tough enemies a challenge. Use the dodge buttons to get out of the way of vertical slashes or back flip over strikes aimed at your feet. You don't need a ton of weird new moves, just those strikes and a shield bash and you can really make the tougher enemies actually feel like a challenge.
ALBW had PvP, it was with AIs though that you set up to fight
Yeah. ALBW was good, over rated IMO though as AlttP does everything better.
It was nice to actually worry about my health and die a handful of times in game, as well as not have as many tutorials and forced dialog (although I think the tutorials as a whole should be removed, and forced dialog be as minimal as possible)
I played Twilight Princess to death when it was released and loved it, I played through it 4 times, doing a 3 hearts run and trying to complete it as fast as possible. I loved Skyward Sword too and played through it twice.
My guess is that the haters of the games just stop talking about it when there's a new game to hate on, while the people that actually enjoyed the game keep on talking about it because they liked the game.
I'm so sick of these threads...
>Fact: There isn't a bad Zelda game
>Fact: Everybody has a different opinion in which order they rank them, because... it's personal taste *hurr*
When have we last discussed the actual games (as in certain favourite parts, hard dungeons/enemies, noteworthy experiences etc.) and not just shitpost én masse about which game is the best and which one is the shittiest?
Aren't you getting tired of this?
>implying /v/ ever gets tired of platform wars and nonsensical shitposting
>AlttP does everything better
I hated collecting rupees for fucking arrow and bomb upgrades. It was fucking tedious. I feel like the dungeons are of a sufficient length in ALttP, but my run takes the same amount of time for ALBW as it does for ALttP. I do think they need to work on the dungeons longer as I've enjoyed doing them. ALttP does not have a 50 floor arena. I'll give points for that to ALBW.
This is pretty much truth. Anyone who didn't mind "wagglin" didn't mind the game. I thought it was good, with the exception of a very small variety of areas. I thought it was cool how they essentially made the desert two places in one, kinda same for the forest once
it got flooded, but the overworld was still lacking. Dungeons and most of the bosses were fun as fuck though, I'd play it again someday.
Holy shit that bias.
OoT is "severely flawed" but MM isn't?
MM has fewer dungeons and is more tedious than WW.
>doesn't like sailing
>thinks others are casual
MM and SS are tied for worst 3D Zelda, not counting the DS games. Any of the other 3 could be called the best depending on taste, but SS and MM are definitely worse.
- 8 to 10 dungeons that clock in at around 2 hours each. Increasingly complexity. If you can't do them in any order, them divide them up in tiers of, say, 2 - 3 - 2 - 3 or something, with 2 dungeons serving as fairly easy (but harder than most Zelda dungeons) and getting increasingly difficult. Divide up the emphasis on combat/exploration/puzzle-solving and assign different weights for different dungeons depending on the tone or theme. Isolated ruins shouldn't be combat heavy etc etc.
- Overworld packed with interesting terrain to explore OR areas packed with sidequests, minigames, and the like.
- TP combat with more enemies and more movesets. Try to find a balance between smooth fighting of multiple enemies (think the Arkham series) and taking on single enemies (like Souls)
- Don't defined the game by an epic twist (ohhh it's the moon! ohh you got a boat! ohh you can turn into a wolf!) but build around it. The core gameplay should be item progression, dungeon crawling, puzzle solving, and combat.
"UGH this part" cuz the person has replayed the game so many times. mfw
You had to go out of your way to collect the rupees?
Once I beat about 2-3 dungeons in the dark worlds, I have been swimming in so many I don't need to upgrade the bags anymore.
However, if I want to max them out (I never need to) I do have to go out and farm rupees
>muh cut content
This is the dumbest reason to dislike something. If they didn't tell you they had to cut things you would never have known, because that isn't an aspect of the actual game you played.
>collect 3 things, just like ALTTP and OoT!
>Oh uh power up this sword I guess? Now go fetch triforce pieces faggot.
You can't tell me that Wind Waker didn't have a lot of pointless filler (ie sailing around a mostly empty overworld) that padded the time. It would have been much better off if more of that time was spent in 2 more dungeons.
8 dungeons is a minimum.
MM is nowhere near as bad as SS, even if you can somehow do the mental gymnastics (mostly motivated by a certain imp's juicy booty) required to put it beneath TP.
I can write a fucking novel on why SS is a step backwards for the whole damn series.
You might have a point if OP didn't literally say "WW had too few dungeons" without mentioning that about MM at all.
Even beyond that, no, because 4 dungeons is too few, especially when every one of them is shit.
TP is a truly polished turd that does nothing substantially different and it should be shunned for it.
Unfortunately, SS tries to do things different and is just a clusterfuck.
TP number of dungeons + freedom to do them in any order + Windwaker open world (but with less filler) and art design + OoT "story"
You do that same thing in MM though.
Only in MM you have to travel back in time after every dungeon, and in your first play through, probably before every dungeon too, not to mention how often you have to do it to do all the sidequests, or the fact that the most involved sidequest requires you to ACTUALLY WAIT FOR ABOUT 15 MINUTES.
>8 dungeons is a minimum.
So MM is half a game?
Major's Mask's dungeons aren't the emphasis.
I think Major's Mask is bad too. The only truly good Zeldas as far as gameplay goes are 2D. Play 3D if you want atmosphere, presentation, and the like.
I can write a better novel on why it's better than MM. SS is mechanically broken, and has shitty repetetive fetch quests, but makes up for it with great bosses and characters, MM has awful level design and a "cool in theory but not actually fun at all" time mechanic, and makes up for it with atmosphere and good antagonists. Both have lousy, hub-like over world, both borrow too much from their predecessor, both are more story focused, both have pre-dungeon areas that are effectively part of the dungeon, both have a central town where 90% of the side quests take place, at the cost of fleshing out any other area.
huge open map
lots of secrets and collectables
tons of sidequests
first dungeons relatively simple, later dungeons require you to use all your previously aquired items and skills
that's pretty much all you need for a good zelda game
>OoT only has one UGH THIS PART
Fucking take off the nostalgia blinders
>The entire deku forest thing until you're actually allowed to leave
>Princess Fatass Sits on Switches Dungeon
>that fucking owl
>changing boots and changing boots and changing boots and changing boots
>walking to anywhere because the fast travel system sucks
>final dungeon is COLLECT A DUH RUPEES