Decapre I don't care if she has different specials and normals. She was built up to be some super secret fighter that no one guessed(people did) and we ended up with a stupid fucking Cammy model rework. At least Dark Pit is a hidden character and wasn't built up for months.
>>265335046 >>2 mario newcomers It got 0 in Brawl. It deserved them considering it's still goddamn Mario, on top of those two being very unique.
>no characters that were heavily requested aside from little mac and megaman The only "heavily requested" missed were Ridley and Mewtwo, maybe K.Rool. We also got popular requests such as Shulk, Palutena, Bowser Jr., THE MAIN CHARACTER FROM ANIMAL CROSSING. Plus two somewhat popular but still "weird" requests like Pacman and the Miis.
>cut unique characters You mean character. Yeah IC will be missed.
>in addition to a single bad character and two others Dark Pit, Lucina(which is awful just because she doesn't change much) and? Dr.Mario? Still, the other newcomers more than make up for them.
>>265335876 "Here you go sir. A medium rare premium steak" "Oh boy, thanks. It's exactly what I wanted!" "But wait, sir. We'll include this nice steaming pile of dark shit with your meal!" "I don't want that. I'll just take the steak." "Too bad, sir!"
>>265339052 No he's really not. Maybe if he likened Dark Pit to a vegetable he didn't like but others might, or something similar. But no he had to bring it into a "Thing I like is food, thing I dislike is human excrement" comparison that's really more hyperbole than actual analogy.
>all of these people acting like Dark Pit, Lucina, and Dr. Mario replaced other potential characters Jesus Christ, people are dumb. I think the clones are awful too, but if they were alternate costumes/custom moves, it wouldn't miraculously free up the dev time to make three all-new characters - we'd just have 47 or so characters instead of 50 or so. The dev team only added them as easy space-fillers, to make the select screen look nice. Something like: >Shit, we don't have enough time to add any more new characters, but there's a kinda ugly empty space on the select screen. >Fuck it, let's just take a couple of those alternate costumes, tweak their moves a bit, and use them to fill the spaces. It's not like they actively chose Dark Pit and Dr. Mario over Ridley and Klonoa and whoever the fuck people are crying over.
>>265340521 I think the thing that hurts people were the cuts from Brawl to 4. Im sure quite a few people would trade all 3 of those folks for Wolf back, since even though Wolf had a similar special moveset to Fox they put his own spin on it and made him a unique character
>>265340919 The worst part about Decapre was how fucking long they built up and teased her, it got fans thinking it was gonna be a cool character And then they got Mask Cammy. At least Dark Pit was just a random last minute addition and the only teasing he got was at the end of Palutena's trailer.
>>265340631 Decapre was much worse than Dark Pit; the Smashfags had it easy in comparison. Dark Pit at least had some amusing lines and a nice theme in KI:U (so there were some people who at least liked him beforehand), whereas Decapre was literally a minor character from the Street Fighter comic books. Not to mention, Capcom had been cockteasing Decapre for ages and saying that she'd be a long-awaited reveal that would make the fans super-excited, whereas Dark Pit was just sort of... there in the Smash leaks without any fanfare or fuss.
>>265341205 >It isn’t a matter of ‘if the next game has 50 characters, that’ll be enough. There is a certain charm to games that have huge casts of playable characters, but they tend to have issues with game balance and it becomes very difficult to fine-tune each character and have them all feel distinctive…. In terms of quantity, we’ve probably already reached the limit of what’s feasible. I think a change of direction may be what’s needed.
So he openly said he didn't want more characters if they didn't have unique movesets.
Then he padded out the roster with more characters that didn't have unique movesets.
>>265340820 True, but I rarely see people whining about the new clones replacing the ones that were cut - it's always "WHY COULDN'T IT HAVE BEEN A NEW CHARACTER" or "WASTE OF A SLOT." A lot of the clone additions are quick filler choices in all of the games, so their odds of making it to the next one are fairly low. And it's funny with regards to Wolf - when Brawl's roster first leaked, I remember people being similarly confused and upset by his addition (not quite as intensely as with Dark Pit, though). In the same vein, when Smash 5 comes around and one or more of these new clones gets the axe, there are going to be just as many people lamenting the absence of Lucina or Dark Pit.
>>265341881 Dark pit may not take a newcomer slot but he still takes Dev time which is what all these faggots can't comprehend. Sakurai flat out said that the 6 melee clones could've been an originak newcomer so these 3 could've EASILY been anything else. He could've given Ganondorf some actual fucking original specials, or given that to toon link, or added an actual new 3ds stage for donkey Kong or Metroid, or made another assist trophy, or something. ANYTHING would've been better. A waste of time is still a waste of time
>>265341848 >No, she was made her own character because of the DS, and to try and pad out the roster counter. She could've padded the roster in the two previous games, now she's got new specials and slot and Zelda got her new specials too. Keep grasping though.
If only Sakurai knew that all this autists about slots and squares in the css can be avoided by just having these characters stay as alts but still retain the unique properties.
Anyway, you know what pisses me off? >Dr Mario gets unique particles/effects for his FS >Dark Pit gets a unique FS >Lucina doesn't even get a cut in for her critical hit like she does in her own game, nor is the life bar from Awakening
>>265342864 Even then, Lucy hasn't got much in common with Roy in terms of differences from Marth. She's literally Marth without the sword sweetspot, and a few minor differences in speed and damage for some moves. Come to think of it, do we know if their custom moves differ at all?
>>265342409 She's the only one I find "acceptable" using the word very lightly. Sakurai said she got her own slot because she was too short and would've screwed with hitboxes if they forced it. But there is nmo excuse for doc and pittoey. Mario could've just gotten a tornado custom move and a doctor Mario skin, and pit could've just kept his dark pit alt. There was no reason they had to have there own slot
>>265336551 >In before some autist gets mad at this image saying "That's not what he's really like!" as if it fucking matters. He's a "dark" OC version of a character, he's automatically shit. But he isn't really like that, and that line shows that you don't know the first thing about character development. You're pretty much just a fucking dumbass.
>>265341382 Yeah, looking back, it was pretty unsubtle. But that's what I'm saying - with Decapre, Capcom led fans on a wild goose chase for months, constantly impying that it would be an addition that would make their jaws hit the floor and shit, only for it to be Cammy in a mask. Whereas with Dark Pit, it was pretty much just an, "oh yeah, this guy's in too" at the end of Palutena's trailer - like, pretty much admitting that he would be a neat addition for a few fans but otherwise not a big deal. The best analogy I can think of would be if Dark Pit were the only newcomer revealed at E3 2014.
Actually all these months since he was reased in that trailer I was fine with his inclusion. What's making me hate him is that it turns out he's a better Pit in every way competitively. I hate when clone characters do that.
>>265340631 In the long run, Decapre actually had unique moves/supers/ultras with some clone moves peppered here and there instead of having pure clone moves with different properties. The buildup to her was bad though.
>>265344353 Okay, well we'll say what edgy is. Edgy is basically someone who's melodramtic for the sake of being dark, who's into more cynical emotions because that's more 'real'(think anger, hate, depression, ANGST), and somehow at the same time doesn't care. Think Sasuke(Or new Dante), on the high end, and Shadow the hedgehog somewhere in the low to middle end.
Dark pit could be considered Edgier than Pit, but he's NOT edgy. Not at all, at best he's a cynic. The highest he gets on the 'dawkness scale' is Malfoy, who's still not that high.
Dark Pit is by far the most 'clone' of the franchise's clones. He's almost statistically identical to Pit (Moves almost all KO at the exact same percentages, have the exact same weight class, have the same jump height and fall speeds, share all the same custom moves aside from side B), the literal only differences being his arrows (Of which he shares all of pits custom move arrows) and side B which just launches at a different angle. So I can see why he's disliked
Honestly I'm not bothered. Dark Pit had no effect on the overall roster, and thematically it sort of makes sense. The sort of 'shoulder angel and devil' thing going on, and being literal clones in their game...I mean I'm not defending it, just whatever.
I don't see how it ruins the roster though. Again, if Dark Pit weren't in it would just have been the exact same roster sans Dark Pit. It's a cute bonus. And since Smash 4 already has the most mechanically diverse roster in the series, the largest as well, and includes some big profile newcomers like Little Mac and Mega Man, there's no way anyone should let a bonus character somehow sour the mood
Okay, say you have 10 hours to develop characters. To develop a char it takes an hour and a half. By the time you reach hour 9 you have 6 full characters without enough time to make another. You decide to fill the roster up by spending half an hour each to make 2 clones.
>>265346093 That's fine, you don't have to. But saying he's just "emo pit" or "Coldsteel the Angel" is outright lying. Just say you don't like clones, and don't think KI deserved 3 reps, and call it a day. As someone who thinks Uprising is the best game to come out in years and even likes Dark Pit, I agree entirely. He shouldn't be in Smash.
>>265345825 What they SHOULD have done instead was simply have Hades with fake angel wings making a play on Pit/Dark Pit's play style, where all of his normals and specials function similarly but hit harder and launch at weird angles.
>>265346324 Electroshock arm is different from upperdash, and the arrows function differently (like a mix between Pit's and Link's). Not sure about normals, I'd have to look into it. I'll get back to you once the game is out in the US.
Side-B KOes at 142 for Pit. KOes at 136 for Dark Pit. Pit's knock-back is about a 85 degree angle Star KO. Dark Pit's is around 65 degrees and KOes with the right blast zone. F-Smash are exactly the same, KOing the training CPU Pit at 98% and no lower. Same knock-back angle. Down Smash both KO at 153% and no lower. Same angle. Up Smash KOes at 127 for Pit. KOes at 127 for Dark Pit. Same angle. F-Tilt Sweet-spot KOes at 182 for Pit. KOes at 182 for Dark Pit. Same angle. Up-Tilt also KOes at 182 for Pit. Koes at 182 for Dark Pit. Same angle. Dash Attack KOes at 256 for Pit. KOes at 256 for Dark Pit. Same angle. F-Throw KOes at 165 for Pit. KOes at 165 for Dark Pit. Same angle. Up-Throw KOes at 210 with Pit. KOes at 210 for Dark Pit. Same angle. B-Air sweet-spot KOes at 136 for Pit. KOes at 136 for Dark Pit. Same angle. F-Air sweet-spot KOes at 161 for Pit. KOes at 161 for Dark Pit. Same angle. I think that's enough. I can tell you from experience that Up-Air, N-Air, B-Throw, and the rest are exactly the same.
>>265346823 It doesn't ruin the roster. The point is that Dark Pit is the laziest addition to any Smash roster ever BY FAR. Originally I figured it was Lucina, but at least they averaged her damage between Marth's min-max, which probably took longer for them to program than implementing Dark Pit did.
>>265347025 >So mostly the same, but with different specials and movement weights
No, they have the same wights and fallspeeds as well
Horizontally, they both die at 45% from a Fully Charged FSmash -Vertically, they both die at 58% from a Fully Charged USmash
Unfortunately, I don't know if the Rage mechanic is active in training mode, but the main point to take from this is that they die at the exact same time as one another.
Next up, I decided to test how fast they run, using Gerudo valley. I'd have them run from the left most platform (where it's Shadow begins) all the way to the right blastzone, and time it to see how fast they run from that one point to the other. For both, it took 3.7 seconds for them to go from that point to where they die off the walk-off. Meaning they likely travel the same speed
How about in the air? I didn't really have a good way to test air movement, so I kept it simple. First I measured how high they could jump up, using the stage lights of Boxing Ring. Both reach the lights and clip through the middle point. Additionally, from the ring floor, their Up B's both reach JUST above the stage lights.
Next, fall speeds. Went to Gaur Plain, and timed both normal fall speed and fast fall speed with a stop watch. From the left highest point, falling down to the blastzone it takes both of them 2.2 seconds for normal fall, and 1.5 seconds for fast fall for them to reach the bottom. Meaning they move the exact same in the air as well.
>>265332960 Man, fuck Activision and their copyright shit, and Sony forcing Santa Monica to push out the game before holiday. If it wasn't rushed it could've been great. Dart and Abe would've been great but they got cut like a month before they were gonna come out.
Two Coles was pretty eh, but it wasn't the end of the world. They did have things to differentiate each other to a pretty good degree.
>>265347062 It sounds to me like the only logical choice for you is not to play.
Seriously, though, stick to Smash's Ryu and play Mario. Bonus: He's playable in the demo, so get to work getting used to him.
After that you might want to segue into someone like Bowser or Little Mac.
>>265347302 It likely took them longer to program Pichu's self-damage mechanic than it took for them to implement Dark Pit.
At any rate, Pichu at least had differences enough from Pikachu to be worth playing in spite of being the jokiest of joke characters. Pichu was the thinking man's character, requiring you to choose when to take the risk of whiffing your strong electric attacks and harming yourself, and when to use Pichu's normals that don't.
>>265346882 That's incorrect, look it up on Smash wiki. Complainers on /v/ are not the experts on Smash 4. They're too full of autistic rage and claim that Dark Pit is a color swap of Pit with no moveset differences instead of getting the facts. Dark Pit is also a tiny bit slower than Pit.
>>265347346 Nigga, Mario NEEDS his air game. I've mained him since the first game, and his all four of his directional air moves range from great to amazing. His Fair spikes, his Uair is fast and hits hard, his Bair is simply the best for launching people, and his Dair gets nice damage and a good launch upward.
Play Little Mac. You won't even have to thing about the air.
>>265347685 It's like playing a nuzlocke in Pokemon or using a single weapon type in your next bored run in Borderlands. It's a self-imposed increase in difficulty, except it's hard coded so you can't cheat. Yeah, you could play Kirby or any other character, but the fun was that Pichu required greated consideration for your inputs.
Like I said, Pichu was clearly a joke character even as a clone, but the funny part was that in spite of all that, Pichu legitimately forced you to play him differently than you might play Pikachu, and that set him apart from the rest of Melee's clones.
>>265348014 Charizard's Side-B now, I believe, does damage to Charizard, but if you hit you do some solid damage and crazy knockback. Other characters have self-damage mechanics in Smash 4, like holding D3's Jet Hammer too long, but I doubt we'll ever see a non-joke character that utilizes self-damage in the same overall manner that Pichu did.
Unless they bring back Pichu and declone him, but I wouldn't hold my breath there on either account.
>>265348563 It's okay. Different strokes for different folks. It's just, as a kid, it got to the point where the only real enjoyment I got out of it was playing the tougher to play characters, and Pichu fit that bill for me. He just required a completely different approach to playing a character that hasn't been seen until Megaman showed up.
>>265348337 The king of clones would be Doctor Mario in Melee, most kids didn't even know there was a difference between him and Mario until they read it when they grew up. But I loved playing as Doc in Melee regardless. You people get too angry about a little bonus not being a huge bonus. It's like getting pissed off that your monthly pay got raised ONLY ten cents.
>>265348716 >liking clones over original character And alph was already a costume then they decided to promote pitoo to a cloen, eat shit >>265348832 >25 votes >in japan only >popular Atleast lucina made it overseas
>>265348189 Why do Uprisingfags have Sakurai's dick so inside them? Well i guess is no surprise.
I played it but is not his "cool" personality that would guarantiee a spot. Putting a character who is nothing more than a recolor is a horrible desicion, plus they might as well just put more clones like say, Dixie or Dark Samus, from franchises that people ask for representation.
/v/, what would Sm4sh's roster look like if it was made in the West? What newcomers would we have gotten? >Ridley >Takamaru >Ashley >Mach Rider >K.Rool >Mewtwo >Lip >Mike Jones >Cranky Kong >Dixie Kong Anyone else?
Probably, even tho it's stupid because they probably didn't take development time away from any character that was gonna be in the game. There's a lot of assmad people who will say they'd rather just have empty spots than them.
>>265349293 I played all the games that they are in, I love lucas a lot wolf not so but he has an original moveset, lucina is ok, atleast she's a different character but dark pit is shitting in your face >>265349297 >japan popularity poll >not shulk in Argument discarded
>>265349504 >Lip Literally nobody gives a shit about her. I liked Panel de Pon, but she's "literally who" tier across the globe. >Mach Rider Only Sakurai really cares about him. I don't doubt that they could make a fun moveset, but he wouldn't be a priority for a Western-made Smash. >Ashley Far more popular in Japan than the West. Waluigi would be more likely. Also, we'd probably get Krystal, so it's not like the roster would be any better than what we currently have.
>>265349323 Not really. It'd be one less thing to complain about, but people would still be complaining that they blew their load too early on the newcomer reveals and Duck Hunt Dog was the only real good surprise, the roster is too biased to certain franchises, the cuts especially Ice Climbers, and that giving so many unique attacks to the Miis and Palutena was time that could have been better spent elsewhere etc.
>>265350149 That's the thing I genuinely don't get. Why is Alph a costume but Dr. Mario/Dark Pit/Lucina are clones? You'd think if he was going to "promote" a costume into a clone, he'd pick one from a series that wasn't getting a newcomer already.
>>265350380 No, I didn't even play pikmin 3 but atleast the series sold more than all the KI franchise and have the same ammount of game Atleast doctor mario has a distint moveset, lucina is a different character but pitoo is a recolor and a clone in it's own universe, it's totally ilogical and it has an inocosistense with the alt costumes Not to mention sakurai was against lucina as an alt because her height yet alph is streched to olimar's size when he has a more kid like body
>>265331215 >not being here on the internet at all in 2008 Tons of people were shitting on ROB and Wolf for ''wasting slots'', being disappointing last characters and such. ''SF doesn't deserve 3 reps'' was thrown around quite a lot.
I'm sure some history revisionist will reply to this post saying everyone was happy with those choices though, but the truth is that the backlash is no different than it was for Brawl's roster at the time.
>>265350990 >And yet for all of that, Dark Pit was seen as a more suitable character for Smash. If DP is then alph already is, olimar is already and example >Also Sales=/= how many characters a series should get. Mario would like to have a talk with you
>>265350693 Even though it is a repeat of "history" for the most part, there is a notable difference between Lucas/Wolf and Lucina/D-Pit, still - the former two have somewhat unique movesets, whereas the latter two are carbon copies with minor changed properties. Ice Climbers being cut is very similar to Mewtwo being cut, however. Long story short, I agree with you for the most part, yet I can't help but notice the drop in "quality".
>>265350693 People stopped giving a shit about Wolf and ROB because they found out they were fun characters and that no-one cared that their favorite character didn't get in instead.
People will never stop shitting all over Lucina and Dark Pit because they are in the upper echelon of lazy-as-fuck clones. In this case, people aren't pissed that Dark Pit and Lucina might have replaced 'muh faveohright fyturr', they're pissed because their mere existence is a middle finger not to just Smash fans of all kinds, but also to the consumer who knows even less than we do, or simply doesn't know any better.
That Sakurai has the gall to add characters to the roster with EXTREMELY minimal differences from their originating characters simply because he thinks they have slight differences and wouldn't have made sense as alternate costumes would've been grounds for a boycott if this wasn't Nintendo and Sakurai we were talking about.
tl;dr: Sakurai made some shit decisions and for all the wrong/bullshit reasons/excuses.
>USFIV announces that there's a SECRET EXTRA FIFTH CHARACTER IN ADDITION TO THE FOUR NEW ONES >hype train departs the station going a gorillion miles an hour >Ono tries to slow it down realizing he fucked up super hard >NO BREAKS ON THE HYPE TRAIN >Ono for some reason has Decapre's reveal trailer make fun of Retsu and R. Mika, the two most hoped for characters >Hype train flies directly off the rails and into a flaming crevice
But at least Decapre's moveset is slightly different from Cammy, so she's got that going for her.
>>265351960 That's fine. It's more to the fact that Sakurai's clearly toeing the line to see what he can get away with in Smash that pisses me off the most. Seeing as how we have people that are fine with a fighter that is 99.9% another fighter, where that .1% comes from the slightly changed model and moodier voice acting, that does NOT bode well for Smash 6, if that ever comes along.
I just kinda pray that they decide to go with someone new for a possible Smash 6 some five or six years down the line, because going with Sakurai again will be tantamount to suicide for the franchise.
>>265350693 I just wish people would stop shitting on the likes of Starfox because of "muh furbait". I mean holy shit grow a spine and flat out say you're not a furry if someone asks. Why are you so insecure if you don't hide porn of it ? Do you hate Samus just because of that scat comic ?
I want to play a fucking badass werewolf that doesn't mean I wear fursuits or want to fuck my dog.
>>265331215 I'm okay with Dark Pitt. I mean he could have been a costume for Pitt, but at least he's just a clone.
Some retards seem to think it would be better if he had his own moveset. What they don't seem to understand is that sticking a clone in takes no work. If they had given him an entirely new moveset that would mean that they'd spent all those time and resources on him over absolutely any other unique character.
At least by including him in the game we get more great KI:U tracks on the soundtrack. I loved KI:U, and the more representation it gets, the better for me, but I would have preferred just about any other character from the series over Dark Pitt.
Anyway Decapre, DLC Lambda, the Raving Rabids in that TMNT game, Pichu in Melee, Starkiller in Soul Calibur and Miis were all equally bad or worse editions in their respective games.
ROB is legitimately the only valid "wasted slot" argument since he's an original character with nothing shared between himself and other characters, but people who bitched after the game was out are fags because ROB is fun as hell.
Lucina I can KIND of understand as a replacement for Roy, who himself was a clone of Marth without tipping and was a little more powerful, if I remember correctly. Dark Pit would've been ok if he was a copy of Pit's Brawl moveset, but he's quite possibly the worst of the clones.
Honestly I'd rather him not be in at all, at least then the roster screen wouldn't look so janky, and Sakurai could legitimately fall back on "alt costumes are only if they match exactly", which is actually bullshit anyway because of Alph.
I think you have this completely backwards. The only reason people care is -because- it's smash. This shit wouldn't be a big deal in any other fighting game.
And I don't see how it's a 'middle finger' to consumers. The only difference is that they're a character instead of a costume. If you'd have made them alt colors for their respective original, it would just bet two less options and two less alt colors we'd have. I don't see how that can be justified as a good thing
>>265352646 >Don't fix what's not broken. I assume that's what you were going for. The issue stems from the fact that Sakurai now has a crystal clear idea of what's acceptable and what's not acceptable for playable fighters in a Smash game, and he's discovered that there is nothing that he can do to Smash at this point that will be considered unacceptable to players. The guy has just discovered that he can do no wrong when it comes to Smash.
You'd better hope and pray someone else does Smash in the future. Someone who hasn't realized that there's no limits to what they can do and get away with preferably.
>>265353049 Except alts aren't celebrated and marketed on the website as completely separate and unique characters. You have to dig around on the internet for a while to know that Lucina and Dark Pit have extremely minimal differences, something the average consumer won't do.
That's fucked up. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.
>>265353475 It's a middle finger to consumers because the game ships retail bragging that it has so many characters, when really there's technically two less than that amount. That's false advertisement where I come from.
It's like being talked into buying a car brand new for three years and realizing after you signed the papers that your air conditioner is just a bunch of those shitty battery-powered handheld fans hanging from various parts of the dashboard.
Sure, the car runs, and on the most technical-est and technicalities you can say the AC does too, but it's not what you were told you were buying.
>>265354093 He can mess up, But I feel that Lucina and the other 2 aren't that bad as others are making them seem like. Out of those 3, I like Lucina and DP and I know that there are others who like the Doc so it would be selfish to want them to be gone.
And I would rather Sakurai stay as the head of the Smash team cause I feel he does a wonderful job and wouldn't want anyone else doing it for fear that they will ruin the series.
>>265354020 Pichu had quite a few different timings, and he was both faster and did more damage than Pikachu. A few of his moves had different sweet spots too, in addition to him hurting himself. His hitbox was also a lot smaller and his roll was faster and covered more ground.
His quick mobility also allowed him to set up a lot of chain grabs and combos that Pikachu just couldn't pull off, and on tp of that his physical strikes had priority that matched some sword-users like Link.
>>265354572 >But they're not? Are you not seeing Lucina on the website? Try F5 'til she shows up.
>>265354621 You won't know 'til you let someone else take a crack at it.
I mean, at the end of the day it's easy to ignore the fact that those characters are in, but the fact that they have pretty much no discernible differences is ridiculous. You have to start digging into the code to find out what's different about them. That's messed up.
>>265354735 But Pichu is still nothing but a weaker Pikachu, who hurts himself and is super easy to K.O. You make it sound like Pichu is useful because he can chain grab, but he's still shit tier. At least Dark Pit can stand up to the rest of the cast, but Smash 4 doesn't seem to have characters that are just flat out weaklings, like Ness, and Kirby in Melee. As much as I love them, god they're terrible in Melee.
>>265354735 Pichu has also had 13 years for his differences to be observed and meta game to be developed. We know everything Pichu can do that Pikachu can't and vice versa, even if they have the same moveset. If you really think Dark Pit and Pit will play more similar than Pikachu and Pichu, then you're flat out wrong. They'll play about as differently as any Melee Clone and the character they have their moveset based off.
Dude, there's a ton of great developers out there that have expressed interest in doing Smash, publicly. Sure, most of them aren't part of Nintendo's stable of developers or anything, but I'm willing to bet if they all got together, or at least a handful of them, they could make a solid Smash game.
I'm fine with Sakurai coming back, but only if they keep the dude on a short leash. I figured with prominent Tales and Soul Calibur devs working on Smash 4 that Sakurai would've been kept on a short leash, but it's clear that Sakurai had the reins of that operation firmly in grasp from day one.
>>265355908 see >>265354020 You're literally just spouting misinformation because you ate up the bullshit angry retards on /v/ fed you. Dark Pit is literally a Melee style clone rather than a Brawl style de-cloned clone.
>>265355968 >If you really think Dark Pit and Pit will play more similar than Pikachu and Pichu, then you're flat out wrong. Pichu's differences were immediately evident to anyone that played both characters, or played against both characters. It's really not that hard to glance and Pichu and tell that he's smaller than Pikachu, or that he rolls farther, or that he hurts himself when he attacks.
Even at a glance Dark Pit is Pit, save for two moves.
>>265356409 Again, you're on /v/. This isn't Smashboards or the wiki, how do we know that guy even has the game? It's been stated by the autists on Smashboards that Dark Pit has a reworked side-B, he can't aim his bow but it does more damage, his attacks do more damage but less knockback, so it's easier to combo with him. He's more of a close range fighter because of those differences. That guy is bullshitting and the angry retards on /v/ eat it up.
>>265346986 Is it popular to think that japan hates little mac or something?
I remember this guy posted a list of Japs' perspectives on him. from waht I recall,
50% (the younger generation) were like literally who, maybe half of which thought their favorite characters shoulda been in instead, the other half were saying "well idonno who dat is but congrats on getting in!" the other 40% were 30-40 year old salarymen talking about how they remember that guy and the younguns were not gonna know who he was
>>265356762 Pills and being ever so slightly slower with a slightly lower jump? Not all kids were autistic like you were. I'd bet that 99% of /v/ didn't know the gameplay differences between Doc and Mario until they saw it on the internet.
>>265357592 How so? Did you pit them against each other and make a graph as to how much damage each attack does, then make them jump at the exact same time with two controllers, then make them race eachother recording the results each time? Kids just play the fucking game. Most adults do that, too. Almost everybody does. I'm telling you, only autists knew the difference. Even big fans of Smash didn't know the difference until they read it.
>>265357592 here, I haven't played Melee in like 8 years so I wasn't sure if my memory was failing me or not, but I looked it up to confirm and the most obvious change makes it very clear
>Mario's f-air is a meteor smash, Doc and Luigi’s f-air aren't.
With that in mind, that they aren't the 100% same becomes excessively obvious to anyone who isn't a drooling retard so the second you notice this you should be thinking there are some other changes too
Maybe 99% of /v/ never used the fair, I donno, but this shit is obvious within seconds of unlocking the doc
>>265358197 It's easier to tell when you've played an entire game where you look at those character's full portraits, and not a bunch of tiny ones zoomed in to the point that you can't see the entire face.
>>265358241 Again, most kid probably didn't even know meteor smash mechanics until they got good at the game when they were teens. I doubt you knew about "mechanical differences" as a kid, nor knew all of the differences by heart. Most kids just unlocked Doc, selected him and were like "Oh, it's Doctor Mario! All his moves look the same, but he's a doctor, that's cool as shit!". Most people weren't obsessive about and had other games to play, with Smash being the big multiplayer game that was great with friends and a little boring alone after you unlocked everything.
>>265358072 >being able to notice that a character has a different speed or jump height is autistic
Why do basic videogame mechanics suddenly become things that only autists care about when Smash is involved? What you're doing is like calling people autistic for being able to tell the difference between Mario and Luigi in SMB2. Not to mention that Doc's differences are spelled out ingame.
>>265359417 And I forgot to mention. She's not just smack in the middle of legitimately unique and separate characters, they're ALSO implying that she's both not a newcomer and that she should naturally be there.
>>265359016 You keep using that word "drooling retard", you're an easily upset autist. Most people who played Melee still don't know to this day the differences between Doc and Mario. Even people who played as them. Because they aren't obsessive and were too busy playing the game. IT GOES DOWN NOT DIAGONAL ITS A HUGE FUCKING DIFFERENCE YOU'RE AN AUTIST FOR NOT NOTICING, that's what you sound like. You people will defend Doctor Mario to the death but autistically hate Dark Pit despite them being the same general concept: like the original but a slightly different variation. Of all the clones, most people could spot the differences on every clone but Doc. It's like you never had friends who had hobbies other than gaming, but played with you for fun.
>>265359717 I'm pretty sure even the most casual player can understand the concept of a character variation that has all the same moves but different effects. Plus anybody that beat Adventure or AllStar with Dr. Mario would have it spelt out for them.
And people don't like Dark Pit because he's the laziest clone yet. He's literally one of Pit's Brawl recolors turned into a character.
I really don't get the scorn for being able to understand basic game mechanics that Smash fans have. If they were Mario fans, they'd be getting pissed at anybody that can run and jump at the same time.
>You keep using that word "drooling retard" I took it back, because even a drooling retard can see the difference between up and down. and you know its true, you're just mad because I'm calling you out on your advanced retardation
>Most people who played Melee still don't know to this day the differences between Doc and Mario I think its just you man.
>Because they aren't obsessive and were too busy playing the game Bro, I mained Roy. I'm as far from an obsessive tourneyfag as someone can possibly be
>You people will defend Doctor Mario to the death but autistically hate Dark Pit despite them being the same general concept: like the original but a slightly different variation. At what point did I say I was defending doctor mario? all I did was point out the difference.
I don't care about doctor mario, or dark pit, or anyone, at this point. I lost my main years ago.
>It's like you never had friends who had hobbies other than gaming, but played with you for fun. but anon, even some random casual will notice the difference between up and down
face it, you're wrong. just let the butthurt flow through you and get over it
>>265360163 Luigi is literally a Mario recolored turned into a new character at his debut. Doctor Mario is literally Mario dressed as a Doctor. Your point is completely moot. Dark Pit is the same as any clone in Melee, he's a tier 3 clone. Tier one being Luigi, tier 2 being Ganondorf, tier 3 being Dark Pit and most Melee clones.
He says that being mad about Pit being in is like being mad that your monthly pay is raised by only ten cents, implying that being upset about your monthly pay being raised ten cents is a bad thing, insinuating essentially that we're being trivial and entitled. I was reacting against that idea. Pretty sure you're the one that can't read, bro.
>>265360453 I never said I didn't notice it, I'm saying normal people don't notice. Meleefags and people who played the game excessively did. Roy and the other clones were easier to spot the differences. I'm calling you out on acting like everybody who played Melee knows this shit, you don't understand that 90 percent of the people who played the game didn't know and wouldn't care if you told them the differences.
>>265360858 Roy is literally the same as Dr. Mario though. They both share the same attack animations as their original, but some attacks have different properties (fiery neutral B, pills for neutral B and shocking F-Smash), and they have different general abilites (Roy has a different sweetspot and is slower, Dr. Mario is slower but stronger).
>>265361240 Got you now, faggot! Most people like Roy and want him back because they saw him as manlier, cooler looking Marth with FIRE. If they gave a fuck about the mechanical differences, they'd main Marth, who is superior in every respect. Normalfags don't know where the sweetspots are, but could plainly see that he's shorter, a bit slower, and has fire. But they wouldn't see Marth's clear superiority as we do.
>>265361949 Ironically, he's the worst lord in the series and has to be babied for a majority of the game. He's also similar to Marth personality-wise, but his main weapon only appears at the end of the game and lasts 20 hits.
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