What is that forum
I'm going to create an account just to tell him how much of a pleb he is.
>The people who made Fallout are piggybacking off of the ideas and worlds made by the people who made Fallout
That jap is fucking dumb
It's more like
>A work made by simple people with a lot of money backing them = Fallout 3
>A work made by geniuses without the money to fund their work = Fallout New Vegas
>the Japanese will never experience the superior FO and FO2
>They'd after the save
they would do what? i need to know
Ulysses could have been a more coherent and well developed character, but having him try to tackle eighteen themes at once had the end result of DABEAR DABULL DABEAR DABULL rather than anything particularly deep.
music was far from 'hollywood action soundtrack'
the delusional fucks on this board never cease to amaze me
"but it's not more than 10 years old and isn't dark souls!" shut the fuck up
That, and fucking blaming me for everything.
As a fucking player I can't feel bad for it because either I'm a gigantic asshole dickbag already or have the capacity to understand I had no control of the character at that point.
"Shaping history" my ass. It ain't shaping jack shit if I didn't actually have a part in it.
>there are people who would consider KotOR 1 superior to KotOR 2 because le piggybacks
We'll see about that. Did you make the correct choice? I'll spoiler the correct one, you go ahead and think about the right one then check yourself. We'll see how simple it was.
Ashur did nothing wrong and The Pitt had stupidly easy morality to figure out for anybody with a hint of foresight
Wild Card = For the Republic > Veni Vidi Vici >>> The House Always Wins
The Pitt, yes.
>Anchorage was one long fucking corridor with collectible boxes
>Zeta was a pile of shit no matter how you look at it
>Point Lookout was asshole vs. asshole, asshole no matter who you support (though that cthulu plot was good)
>Broken Steel was literally Mass Effect 3
>There are people who actually sided with House
Is this the "shit 2chan says" thread?
yea, we're totally not being invaded
>FO3 feels like a post-apocalyptic wasteland
POST APOCALYPTIC AND WASTELAND DON'T FUCKING GO TOGETHER
POST APOCALYPTIC MEANS AFTER THE FUCKING APOCALYPSE
FO3 LOOKS LIKE A FUCKING MID-APOCALYPSE
NEW VEGAS IS GODDAMN POST APOCALYPTIC HOLY SHIT
But Obsidian was the one putting in as much effort as they could ever since before they even WERE Obsidian!
They're like BioWare, except they get to bend over to every single publisher they've ever worked for.
Fallout 3: A work made by average people cutting corners.
Fallout: New Vegas: A work made by geniuses giving it their all in a limited amount of time.
>Mfw people who think Yes Man route is better than House
They're the same fucking route but with you ending as the leader instead of House you faggots.
NCR > Roman wannabes.
Japan has taken some established products and made them more difficult.
Early Wizardry -> Somewhat hard
Later Wizardry -> Really easy
Japanese Wizardry -> Harder again
Well, its better to look at mainstream products anyways, I guess, and those would be the same in any country.
FO1/2 ---> Not really hard but you can at least mess up.
FO3/NV ---> You can't even die unless you drink little girl's piss for an hour to rad out
Early FF ---> Some fights that might require a bit of effort, have to figure out where you're going
Late FF ---> Follow this one path and hit x until you win
>NCR: A peaceful wasteland for all, naive but good natured.
>Legion: Might makes right. Honest, but brutal.
>House: HERR DERR I'MMA MAKE THE WORLD LIKE IT WAS PREWAR WITH ROBOTS THAT'S HOW THAT WORKS
Why did they even bother making a House ending?
He has the best technology, and is an immortal, genius dictator. Plus he offers the courier immortality.
NCR is just repeating the mistakes of America, and they've got a big famine on the way
Legion is dead without Caesar
Independent Vegas is dead without the courier
Thank LucasFarts for that. They pushed it for a christmas release, and then fucking denied Obsidian making a free restoration patch themselves.
It's literally the same fucking situation as with Sonic '06 except the devs actually developed the game
>they've got a big famine on the way
Good thing my Courier's is a fucking genius with 100 science, 100 repair, 100 speach, barter and unarmed.
>He has the best technology, and is an immortal, genius dictator. Plus he offers the courier immortality.
>Implying House is going to keep his word and not just have the Courier killed the first chance he gets once he has no further need for the courier
You got reeled in, anon. Hook line and sinker,
>quantity is more important than quality
Honest Hearts > Lonesome Road > OWB > > > > > > > Fallout 3 > > > FO3 DLC > > > > > > > Dead Money
Discuss what was said or the two games?
Personally, I'd like to think I'm far beyond being biased considering it's been years since FO3 was my first Fallout game and I've since beaten New Vegas and Fallout 2, but between 3 and New Vegas I generally prefer 3 because of the setting and atmosphere.
I get it's been hundreds of years since the nuclear fallout and life has come pretty damn close to resembling what it once was before the bombs fell, but I really liked the total desolation and destruction of the Capital Wasteland.
HEY COURIER LETS FIGHT ONE ON ONE OH WAIT LET ME SPAWN TONS OF ENEMIES AND RUN AROUND LIKE A BITCH WHILE MY HEALTH REGENERATES STUPIDLY FAST ALSO LET ME EXPOSIT THAT YOU DID SHIT BECAUSE FUCK SHOW DON'T TELL
Ulesses and Lonesome Road were a huge letdown
>Blah blah blah war metaphor. Blah blah The Bear.
Not to mention how linear it is.
Honest Hearts and Lonesome Road are tied for worst NV dlc
i seriously hope you are kidding.
that happens when you are trying to prove that the freelancer bodyguard is actually scamming people out of their money by acting out scenarios where people are robbed and he takes them out easily.
all the bodies remain intact and you hurting the bodies kills them, this was probably a glitch and considering i beat the game a week ago, patched long since
I am the only one that realizes that Obsidian fucked up the personal route to power.
No matter who you choose, the wasteland is worse off for it because they are all shit. The only correct choice as it is is to choose no one and let the wasteland sort it out itself.
If Obsidian knew how to do non-linear storytelling, they would have had a several choices to your personal ascent to power:
>Asshole Hitler route.
>True Neutral beta route. You're worse than NCR.
>Good route. Intelligent placement rather than good natured.
>tfw there will never be good plots or storytelling in a fallout game
>factions are just a series of linear quest chains that make you pretend you're going up in rank only to get a "thanks, all our problems are solved, now fuck off"
Gee I wonder who could be behind this post, other than the obshittian defense force.
I enjoy Lonesome road because it feels like what they were trying to do with Dead Money - having it be a struggle to survive in a recently post-apocalypse instead of the fairly leisurely post-post-post apocalypse of the rest of the game. It's also got a bunch of weapons that are cool but grounded in reality.
But the writing just sucks.
I enjoyed Fallout 3 more.
I felt that the world had a better atmosphere, and the events were more memorable.
I get that it "wasn't a true Fallout," but I still loved it.
Is that bad?
>this perfectly valid reason is invalid because Betehsda WANTED it to be this way
>I felt that the world had a better atmosphere
a green tint and urban ruins is not atmosphere. you enjoyed the setting more. that's it.
Only a negligible amount. It's like "failing" the quest when you turn in the star caps.
No. Different people can have different opinions, and that's okay.
For example, I prefer New Vegas, but I hate the originals and didn't even finish 2.
>Might makes right
>Metal Gear image
Did you know, anon?
Yeah. The atmosphere is part of the setting.
The setting also includes the time period, the world design, and the music choice. (The time period is irrelevant, but I pretty much like 3's choices more than NV's as a whole.)
you do realize you're defending bethseda with that aren't you
Plenty of people enjoyed the Star Wars prequels, that doesn't mean there's anything objectively "wrong" with them. But from a critical point of view you're going to be crowded together with all of the other actual retards out there.
Sorry, but if you don't like it then just leave. Stick to reminiscing about moments in Fallout 3 with your actual friends, not us.
You do have those, right? Friends?
You can make neutral ending any of those. Do every quest in the most beneficial way possible? The Mojave flourishes, and everyone is happy and safe as they can be. Do nothing? Everything stays pretty shitty honestly, but not that much worse off. Do every quest in the most "evil" or unhelpful way? Shit's fucked, man.
Yes, I have friends.
And I do like New Vegas - it's a fantastic game. I just prefer 3.
I'm probably one of the most casual gamers on /v/, though, so may that has something to do with it.
the music choice honestly really pisses me the fuck off because the bombs dropped in fucking 2077
why the fuck does he only have music from the 30s
did three dawg find an ancient box of phonographs or something
So he told you that your character is Darth Vader?
I was pretty surprised too. Did NOT expect that. My character was female for fucks sake, but shit man lava can ruin anything.
>Atmosphere is more important than gameplay
Fallout 3 had a much more desolate setting. less friendly people, less towns and civilizations, that all contributes greatly towards a lonely, foreboding atmosphere.
that game is still shit compared to NV though.
It's a shitty plot twist anyways, one of the worst in video game history.
Name any plot twist, even Star Ocean 3's 4d shit, and it's better because IT ACTUALLY TWISTS THE PLOT.
KotOR's twist does ZERO to the rest of the story. The game proceeds EXACTLY as it had before, just with this revelation added.
If NCR is mad, and you can't even talk to the Ranger for the quest, then it's unwinnable. However, the quest should have failed, in that case.
You could try using an NCR uniform, but guards and the dogs will recognize you as a genocidal maniac.
You could also try doing sidequests that add to NCR fame, to balance out your infamy.
> some preteen faggot that thinks Skyrim is God's gift to gaming
>Protip: it's not
Congrats Anon. You successfully learned that the majority of /v/ dislikes something and are now showing off your new-found knowledge by attacking a strawman of your former self. But, it would appear you mixed that sentence up there friend! You see, if you want to blatantly copy the popular opinion, you have to say NV beats F3. Just thought I'd tell you. Welcome to /v/
you fucking sheep.
>watching obsidiots justify this terrible game every fucking fo3 vs nv thread
>only defenses are "well, it wouldn't be so shit if bethesda gave them more time, after giving them strict deadlines over a year in advance"
>"well, at-least it's better than fo3 right? I mean, it's obviously new vegas is shit, but if I compare it to a game that's pretty much on the same level of shittiness, maybe 1 iota of shitiness more shitty, then new vegas seems good by comparison, right? RIGHT?!"
Delusional little faggots. You're hung up on the lore in a game that never took itself seriously enough to make any kind of lore worth merit so much you are defending an objectively shit game. You should all kill yourselfs and stop falling for the fo3 fan's baits.
And this is different than "Go here and get the solar panels" in what way?
Or "go here and clear out the fire ants!"
Or "go there and clear out the repcom rocket facility of super mutants, good now go fetch some shit from the junk yard!"
Litterally every fucking quest in new vegas was also mmo shit.
YOU ARE COMPARING THE EXACT SAME GAME TO THE EXACT SAME GAME.
>And this is different than "Go here and get the solar panels" in what way?
Because there are a variety of ways to approach and complete that quest.
New Vegas quests have options and branch, Fallout 3 quest are linear and generic killing shit.
>implying Fo3 DLC wasn't better than the game itself
The Pitt and Point Lookout were so good.
The Pitt > OWB > Lonesome Road > Point Lookout > Honest Hearts > Dead Money > Broken Steel > shit > Mothership Zeta > Operation Anchorage
I think the main problem with people who actually like Fallout 3 is because they were literally their first PRGs. The only games these types of people had really played before were huge blockbuster hits like CoD and Halo. Just look at the release dates of all these games, the rise of casualization in 2007, it all lines up.
If all you know about video games is that there's guns and you go around shooting the guy in front of you, then anything going off a different angle is going to seem like a hidden gem to them. And when their mechanics and story are similar (including a perk system, gaining experience, helping the good guys go kick some bad guy ass!), it's even easier to get into.
These people don't actually like RPGs, they like the thought of playing an RPG. It's different, it's
edgy, it's something "new"! And everything that's not in 3D, first person perspective is just for nerds. :^)
IT WAS STILL BORING AS FUCK
The quests consisted of
>ok, you can either go here and fetch some shit, or, if you have 100 repair you don't have to fetch anything!"
You think this is good game design?
This is fucking dogshit, there's no replay value in that crap because the only difference is are you going to fetch shit, or are you skilled enough to skip fetching shit and still get the xp.
I got a bit of an RPG feeling a couple weeks ago, and I recently tried to play through NV again, when I came upon that part.
God, why did they keep that in the game? Imagine if you're that guy, and your employer asks to have samples of your voice acting in the most popular games you've been in.
You also have the option of choosing where the power goes based on your faction decisions, or make it into a super weapon for yourself. That it literally the definition of replay value.
No matter how hard you try to play it down, it's always better than "Go kill the mutants in this cave"
At least Yuri Lowenthal had an ounce of character in his voice. Tutorial girl sounded like they just nabbed some intern's nervous girlfriend and had her deliver the line in one take.
I would agree if she were meant to deliver some sort of emotional line. She's just kind of explaining Goodsprings, how to make healing powder, and "the town mom".
She wasn't very good, but there's worse examples within New Vegas itself, let alone "da abs'lute wers vee-ayy err!"
It's not better, because it's still boring as fuck. The quest to get those 3 options is boring as fuck and short of the superweapon option the other 2 don't actually do fuck all because the factions are static props that stand around and jerk off.
You mean Morrowind. Oblivion may be bad, but it wasn't the one in its own series to start a downward trend in the complexity of roleplaying games.
Please be kind to your elders, Morrofags.
Doesn't help that the avg. Enclave soldier's armor was in shit condition.
Were they trying to emphasize that their equipment was worn from trekking all the way from the west coast or something?
>Yet ANOTHER crappy sequel that they made that nobody really wanted, but hey, it appeased the neckbears over at nma and obsidiots
>Shitty plothole ridden game coded and made on the horrible gamebryo engine, meant to revive a franchise which SHOULD HAVE STAYED DEAD.
Daggerfall and Morrowind are both great games with serious flaws, but Oblivion only sold what it did because it launched when the 360 had no games and did EVERYTHING wrong..
My first TES was Arena. I thought it was OK but not great. Only played Morrowind years after it came out because someone had got it with a graphics card or something and was clearing out their shit and gave it to me
Yeah I'm probably being a bit harsh, there's a few other performances I can think of who did a good job.
Though poorly or awkwardly delivered lines kill my immersion quicker than anything, and F3, NV were filled to the brim with them
I don't agree with most of it, but I do agree with the last part. People suck Obsidian's cock so much for making simply above average games and praising them as the greatest games of all time.
>Is that bad?
No, it's just the NVfags that constantly spout their shit that would make you think so.
3 may have had it's problems, and there's no denying that, but it's still a pretty great game.
and I enjoyed it more than NV.
I asked this in a thread last night but my net dropped lol. Does anyone know how to fix that menu and pip-boy mouse acceleration cross "if i was lifting my mouse of the pad every 2 seconds" bullshit in both games? its so annoying
Ill buy something on steam if someone can help me.
(it worked fine on this pc a year ago all i changed was my mouse, its now a death adder)
not him, but sometimes when i dont have an appropriate reaction pic i search google for one, and usually find what i want- you guessed it, hosted on tumblr. instead of saving it, I just past the link to the image into the upload field, and direct link to the image which retains its tumblr name.
Well see that's the thing. It's the same way with New Vegas. New Coke was just a conspiracy to be able to use the cheaper HFCS instead of sugar and get people to accept it. They made "New" coke which tasted like shit and everyone hated it, and used HFCS. Then they brought back the flavor of "old coke" as "coke classic" but still used HFCS. So instead of everyone complaining that their coke got real sugar take out, everyone was happy that their coke tasted more like the old coke again.
Same with fallout. The original fallouts were the original coke. Excellent writing, isometric view and turnbased elements in the form of AP, rich RPG elements, etc.
Fallout 3 is the New Coke. Shittier RPG elements, oblivion with guns on gamebryo, shitty writing, everything worse than the originals really.
NV is coke classic. They retained the shitty gamebryo and FPSRPG design from F3, but they made the writing and RPG elements closer to the originals. Not the same, but closer. Enough to satisfy some, but still not the exact same as the old coke.
Do you understand?
Well until you find out that the other guy is basically a scumbag raider who was formerly Ashur's right hand man and really just wants power over the pitt himself, and is willing to disregard the baby's safety to do haphazard experiments that might not even result in the cure being found.
Whereas the baby's mother is an accomplished scientist and will take the care to ensure that a cure is extracted without harming the baby.
And that's exactly why it's better. Unless you're a house fanboy or you make a low int, low cha character, there's no reason why you'd think he's more qualified than you to run shit.
Especially when you can conceivably leverage assets you acquire in the DLCs to make your nation unstoppable.
Personally, as the Courier I think you have a better chance of getting to space than House. I mean you actually have practical results and send GHOULS to space, where it is heavily implied in the ending that they've created some sort of advanced society under Bright's guidance. Don't ask me how.
>Independent Vegas is dead without the courier
Then you should make yourself immortal instead, and do it right, unlike house. You really have all the tech you need to do it at big MT too.
You come out of that place being nearly half cyborg anyway.
Jesus Christ, it's actually amazing how unintelligent the average person who browses /v/. Sometimes it really is astounding. Anyone with the ability to critically read a children's book would be able to see that New Vegas was built around the fact that politics are futile. There is no best option. This is akin to arguing about consoles.
Mr. House's plan is entirely reliant on the NCR. If you did not know this, you did not play New Vegas. Simple as that. His plan is the halt the Legion and use the income of NCR tourists to jumpstart industry around the city. He will also rely on it for technology and a workforce. However, it is repeated numerous times throughout the game that the NCR will not last long, even if it defeats the Legion. The NCR fails, Mr. House fails.
Yes Man only exisrs because Obsidian knew you'd want to kill all the faction leaders and needed a way to complete the story if you did.
>Get addicted to med-x
cant eat, sleep or stay hydrated if you don't get a fix, character has to stop to shit/puke every few mins and has min agi/end/chr
>addicted to jet
Stay up for days and start seeing shit, world goes into slow mo and you get depressed min chr/agi when you cant find any
shakes and DTs
start attacking random people for no reason seeing them as demons, slowly lose hp when you cut off your own flesh
I've recently been using a random start mod for both F:NV and F3. Along with other mods, I wanted to play the games in an Ironman kind of way. I would randomly generate a character, then use an alternate start mod to spawn in a random location on the map. I'd try to stay in character and if I died, that was that.
After doing all the balancing I could. I found that F:NV map was pretty terrible. Enemy spawns were scripted and since there was no level scaling you got ass-raped if you didn't spawn near goodsprings, and if you did, you had to follow the same god damn trail everytime.
In Fallout 3, at least with the help of Mart's Mutants Mod, creatures spawned at random, this combined with F3's map, which was an how a sandbox map should be, where you can go in any direction from Megaton at the map's center without having to worry about Cazadors that stop you from going off the traveled path. It just worked better overall.
I also found that FWE was far more enjoyable as an overhaul mod than Project Nevada. There's actual survival involved. It's not like in New Vegas where it's nearly impossible to run out of ammo or starve and crippled limbs can be fixed in an instant with handy dandy doctor bags.
>starting the game in areas that you weren't designed to start in doesn't work
>New Vegas is set up like an RPG
>Fallout 3 is set up like a sandbox
>durr NV sucks I should be able to go anywhere I want as a level 1 fuckstain
>starting the game in areas that you weren't designed to start in doesn't work
>New Vegas is set up like an RPG
>Fallout 3 is set up like a sandbox
>durr NV sucks I should be able to go anywhere I want as a level 1 fuckstain
>lore that fallout 3 established
>lore that...3 established
>starting the game in areas that you weren't designed to start in doesn't work
It would if there was a way to turn on scaling it wouldn't be an issue, but there isn't, have to play the game the same way each time, no matter how much you try to make a character different, the same enemies spawn in the same spots and you do quests and visit towns in the same order.
>New Vegas is set up like an RPG
>Fallout 3 is set up like a sandbox
>durr NV sucks I should be able to go anywhere I want as a level 1 fuckstain
F:NV is for people who make one character and do everything in the game with that one character. Everything before you hit the strip feels like a tutorial.
I don't know about it being an RPG though, it's still just a glorified sandbox, it's definately more polished, but it's so scripted it hurts and it has less replayability.
Normally I wouldn't, but a good level scaling can still have you run into challenging enemies.
It's all about having a wide range.
>F:NV is for people who make one character and do everything in the game with that one character
What the fuck. New Vegas is one of the few modern RPG's where you CAN'T do everything in one playthrough. It sounds like you have 3 and New Vegas mixed up.
Scaling is objectively a shitty mechanic that completely removes any uniqueness from the game.
Randomly generated scaling enemies are the best way to make your game feel repetitive and boring before it's even halfway done.
>F:NV is for people who make one character and do everything in the game with that one character
Funny because that's literally impossible in NV, whereas that was exactly what everyone did in F3.
>I don't know about it being an RPG though
It's an RPG, F3 is a shitty sandbox that tries and fails to be an RPG.
Fallout 3 doesn't do good level scaling though, whatsoever.
You can go straight to where you meet your father the second you leave Vault 101 and you're not punished in any sort of way, you're at no disadvantage or anything.
Level scaling is only good if it's done the way TLR does it, and that's if it's designed so that the enemies are always at a decent level with you, but they can actually surpass you if you get greedy
>F:NV is for people who make one character and do everything in the game with that one character.
That wouldn't work in an open-world game though.
Make it like Morrowind, where normal areas will choose random low-level enemies and you'll only run into powerful enemies near/inside ruins and things like that, and more importantly, DON'T CHANGE STATS, just spawn more powerful enemies at higher levels.
It's not that you can't do everything, it's that you have to go through a tedious gauntlet until you can actually do something significantly different.
>Funny because that's literally impossible in NV, whereas that was exactly what everyone did in F3.
Well yeah, I never said that F3 doesn't do the same thing. It's just that when trying to make multiple characters to explore different playstyles, I'd rather do it in a way that actually allows me to do so without going through the forementioned gauntlet.
>It's an RPG, F3 is a shitty sandbox that tries and fails to be an RPG.
Both F3 and F:NV play the same, an fps sandbox with rpg elements. Only major difference is that F:NV tried to be more fps than rpg with ironsights and added more content.
You CAN do that, or you cannot, if you're that desperate to do the story quest you have a choice to do so. If you're the kind of person who rushes the story quest and goes 'Look I beat fallout 3! I win the game!' If not, you can explore and maybe look for something you feel more like doing.
Both ways will give you a decent challenge without running into bullet-sponge enemies that you have to wait until you're a high level with superior equipment.
>Only major difference is that F:NV tried to be more fps than rpg
The Elder Scrolls is Fallout with down-syndrome.
The game allowed for more role-playing, by giving the player factions to side with and decisions to make during the story. All the quests also have a variety of ways to complete them, with multiple endings. Perks, skills, and SPECIAL also have a more influential change on the gameplay and role-playing, giving you more choices in dialog.
Says you. Fallout has close to no lore at all. No depth. No challenge. You can fucking PAUSE TIME.
>b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but my immersive enviroment
Any elder scrolls game does immersion 2000% better than all fallout games combined.
Except it totally fucking will work in an open world game.
Set it so that enemies surrounding certain low-level will be low-level, and the deeper in the wilderness you go, or if you go into a higher level city, you fight harder enemies
It also brings in the concept of risk vs reward, where if you're skilled you can take down a dungeon that's higher than your level, and gain loot that you can use to clear normal areas faster, or allows you to enter higher level areas more regularly.
It's called freedom without making everything balanced to your level, Fallout 3 and Skyrim both balance EVERYTHING to your level, so even if you enter the highest level dungeon where you fight fucking deathclaws in FO3 or Draugr Deathlords in Skyrim, you're only going to find shitty iron swords and 20 gold pieces even while unlocking fucking master chests.
Mundus is the plane or realm of existence that encompasses Nirn, its moons, and attendant Aedric planets. For all intents and purposes Mundus refers to these heavenly bodies alone, as they themselves float in Oblivion. Mundus is a collaborative construct created by many divine beings. It was first conceptualized by Lorkhan, who then convinced other et'Ada (except the Padomay-aligned et'Ada, i.e., the Daedra) to assist him in its construction. Of these et'Ada, Magnus became the Architect, who drew up the plans for Mundus.
Some of the et'Ada gave parts of themselves entirely to the creation of Mundus. These became the eight planets of Mundus (not including Nirn); they are also identified as the Eight Divines, or Aedra. Some Aedra gave themselves completely to their creation, and became the Earthbones that form the substance and life of the final planet: Nirn. Soon after the planets had formed, Magnus became disgusted at what Mundus was, and so left for Aetherius, his passage ripping a hole in Oblivion (the realm of Daedra that surrounds Mundus and separates it from Aetherius). This rip is viewed as the sun, and is responsible for much of Mundus' magical energy. Others soon followed after Magnus; these et'Ada left smaller holes, which became the stars. Some et'Ada did not manage to escape or chose to stay on Nirn as spirits. These et'Ada changed into the Earthbones (Ehlnofey) or simply wasted away into nothingness.
Because of Lorkhan's trickery of the other et'Ada, the Aedra met at Direnni Tower (also known as the Adamantine Tower or the Ur-Tower) to discuss the punishment of Lorkhan
>Except it totally fucking will work in an open world game.
No, and here's why:
>explore instead of doing story missions
>naturally level up because of this
>do it too long and you're now extremely high-level and the game will "punish" you for being "greedy"
>implying Emil Pagliarulo isn't a genius
>implying Christiane Meister isn't a genius
>implying Adam Adamowicz wasn't a fucking genius
you miserable, ignorant little shits ought to be ashamed of yourselves
What the fuck does this even mean
Isn't the point of an open world RPG to have the choice of doing story missions or not? By having the world be set to a preset level for each zone, you can have the player still follow the main story, and the game will guide you there as you play, but it also allows the player to have the freedom of exploration without having the game hold the player's hand the entire time with enemies that stay the player's level, not giving you any threat or any worry that you might be in a zone too dangerous for you.
Oh thank god.
My only real problem with the game is that I can't get to the town in the far east, or th doctors hideout. Shit has SO MUCH FUCKING RADIATION that even if I come with like four dozen medkits, I still just die before I get there, even when I have a suit!
What do, anon?
so what? you won't be able to help anyone. The courier will survive regardless, were talking about whats best for the people of america.
Also you're fucking retarded for not realizing the context, just pointing that out.
>tfw fallout NV with every possible difficulty and immersion mod possible
say what you will but I cannot think of a fallout game without maximum immersion anymore. I probably wont buy FO4 day one just because I know it won't be IMMURSIUN enough for my needs, unless Bethesda suddenly got gud at making games, which I highly doubt.
>thinking about reworked inventory systems and amazing gunplay in a bethesda game
I mean, if you're going to convert a top down turn-based RPG into an fps, you may as well do it right.
All of those things were in Fallout 3, F:NV just quantified them.
F:NV did a lot better overall, but there's less freedom, more linearity. It creates a great world for you to explore, but then makes you explore it the way the devs want you to, from Goodsprings, to Primm, to Nipton, every time.
I agree with that. Anytime I start a new character I always want to just sneak my way straight to Vegas, but I always end up going the intended route so I don't miss out on the EXP and gear that I would miss out on otherwise.
I love NV to death, but man oh man do I wish they designed that differently. I get the notion behind it, but goddamn is everything that happens before you hit Vegas tedious and unfun as fuck.
Anyone who says 3 is better than New Vegas is either retarded or trying to stir shit up.
I can't believe it's 2014 and you retards are still arguing about this. The only thing 3 had going for it was that it was spoopier, but it lost even that beuse of the repetitive fucking metro tunnels and basements.
I'm not trying to say it's better.
I'm just saying that in certain areas it's more enjoyable that F:NV.
You can false flag it as trolling and use whatever reaction image you have in your folder all you want, but people like F3.
>You can go straight to where you meet your father the second you leave Vault 101 and you're not punished in any sort of way, you're at no disadvantage or anything.
This is a Fallout tradition and it might even just be a shout-out. It's also sort of a Bethesda tradition as there's a famous shortcut in Morrowind which, come to think of it, might itself have been a nod to Fallout.
It's rare that people stumble on Dad's nap spot by accident, and if they do what happens is believable enough. There's no reason to assume the vault dweller would be at a natural disadvantage to the wasteland regulars who are plagued with sickness, injury, and psychosis while Kid 101 grew up in a clean environment. Also surrounded by bullies and the offspring of two very intelligent people.
It's also worth noting that finding Dad serves just fine as the beginning of your character's story. You don't have to confront the main asshole immediately. You can do it after exploring the wasteland. That exploration isn't arbitrary, it's full of little stories to which you receive nudges from many sources. The Finding of Dad is just as valid a starting point as siding with Tenpenny.
The beauty of Fallout 3 is that if you are cautious you'll do alright, but if you get cocky you'll usually wind up in trouble, and the game is full of temptations to be cocky. Fallout, since the first game, was not actually that dangerous a setting from the start. In the original Fallout, the first town you visit is almost serene and it's tempting to just stay there. Danger in Fallout comes as a consequence of the vault dweller's decisions to take on risk in order to save the vault, the tribe, or his father.
And with 3, let's not forget that the game is absolutely incomplete without at least some of the DLC. One of those DLC transforms the wasteland into a ferocious challenge, and while it may have taken you 200 hours to get there, the payoff is a lot of fun.
But the complete opposite is true. In New Vegas you can advance the story and play how you want, the story was non-linear. Meanwhile, Fallout 3 was completely linear and forced you to play the same every time.
It's got a ton of the silly dark humor that F01/02 had as well. Theres a skill that lets you talk to enemies and have them help you in battle (but you have to be directly in front of them to "talk" to them and convince them to help).
New Vegas has its share of problems. The NPCs are much more likely to talk to you as though the time since your last conversation is much longer or much shorter than it actually was. This happens in every game, but in NV it is constant and an endless distraction.
The game is very linear for a good long time, which would be ok but it LOOKS LIKE an open world game; yet you are brutally punished if you wander off the path laid out for you.
The game periodically dumps you into huge dungeons for no real reason, without telling you that you're on a side quest. This is a side effect of the low stakes posed at the start of the game. What happens just does not matter. The player isn't even offered a compelling reason to heal from his wounds and do anything more than drink himself to death. The motivating factor is dumb curiosity or a bruised ego.
Then you get to Vegas, and it's emptier than any self respecting Fallout city ought to be. No doubt a technical limitation Fallout 3 was wise to avoid. An abandoned Vegas might make sense anyway, but you are endlessly reminded of how dangerous, unpredictable, and debaucherous this place is.
When the big reveal comes, it makes little sense, and while the player struggles with what he's learned he receives memos from every obscure group of bandits and cultists, promising him that his actions up to now have NO CONSEQUENCE. Half these people are total strangers.
And if this doesn't shatter whatever was left of your immersion in the game world, your standards need work. How does any of this make sense? Even if it did, why would this person care?
It may surprise you that I like this game and am not out to slam it all that hard. All of the Fallout games have problems, but let's not kid ourselves that NV is this soaring example of the series just because it's irradiated with delicious Avellonium-238. It's fun and it has a great vibe, but it's a mess, and it's easily the weakest in the series unless you count Tactics.
>3 better than New Vegas and first Fallout
>3 being in any position not firmly glued to the bottom of the list
The best thing about NV is the changes it makes to basic gameplay.
There's a fine set of characters, but as many silly ones as any of the other games have, and not so much of the really intriguing and haunting shit like the Fort Constantine incident, the radio towers, the messages people left for each other long ago.
The various settlements mostly lack the charm of those in 3, and the game is weak on moral conundrums like the Tenpenny ghoul problem, Harold, Constantine again, etc.
What NV did very well was add a level of TES style complexity to crafting, improve the item system, improve item wear & repair, and give the weapons more individuality while keeping the low yield guns formidable instead of rendering them useless like F3 eventually did.
>and the game is weak on moral conundrums like the Tenpenny ghoul problem, Harold, Constantine again, etc.
Haha what? Those wear clear blatant black and white. Not to mention the main quest/story didn't have any choices at all.
Not even above average. Just look at that piece of shit Alpha Protocol, it had really cool ideas but the game itself was a horrible mess that people praise as one of the greatest action RPGS ever made.
You should be grateful though, how many series were lucky enough to have both a "sequel" for "gamers" and a real sequel for legit fans of the series? Look at what happened to RE4, there was no RE4make, same for Tumb Raider.
I think it's partly loyalty to Avellone. That guy carried the fire for us for years when Fallout had been effectively abandoned. Put together a 150+ page bible pretty much out of the sheer goodness of his heart and was otherwise good to the fan base when no one else seemed to give a shit.
When you combine that with the fact that he's a good writer, sometimes a great writer, and that we have him to thank for not only F2 but Torment, he gets a few bonus stars. Add those stars to New Vegas, which all things considered was pretty damned good, and it magically becomes the greatest game of all time.
When in fact it was just damned good, which makes it the worst of the four real Fallout games.
>The game is very linear
>it's easily the weakest in the series
This is really poor bait.
bullshit. the fusion-powered, steel/titanium fully contained exosuit, which single handedly turned the tide in the great war and repelled the chinese invaders in alaska. it literally turns any man into a walking tank.
and now, denim overalls worn by rednecks are tougher?
someone on NMA put it best: the BOS should have just ditched PA and made armor out of hillbilly hides.
Pitt should be at least a tier lower.
The only thing it has going for it is the only interesting choice in 3, the rest of it is pretty awful.
Broken Steel should be at the bottom, aside from fixes that should have been in the vanilla game from the start, the new content sucks.
mate it would have been good in new vegas but bethesda realises they had let the player become too OP with Broken Steel, so(I'm being 100% serious here) what they did was add a perk to every enemy's rifle that bypassed any armour you were wearing(this is like a shitty hunting rifle) so you could be naked/wearing power armour and it'd just cut right through.
Buuuuuut - when you pick up the weapon, the perk is magically gone. Fucking awful DLC
This is such a load of shit.
>choose between giving the NCR Sharecropper farms a successful few years of harvest by diverting the leaking radiation out of the way
but this means
>the few remaining vault survivors are trapped in a room with the radiation, slowly ghoulifying/dying from radiation
>you have to choose between letting people slowly die in a vault from radiation or helping the many eat
>not a moral choice
what the fuck else music would there be?
All the songs were probably the best selling in their respective time periods and he found them. What other type of music would there be anyway? Its a 50s cultured people, i mean fallout 1 fucking had ink spots and they're old as shit too.
I did. Fallout 2 pretty much does everything Fallout 1 tries to do a fewhundred times better, and Fallout 3 is something fresh. It may have been because of me playing the original Fallout on DOS though. Still, Fallout 3 and Fallout are pretty close to each other on my list, I just like Fallout 3 a bit more.
>the biggest city in the washington DC area TWO WHOLE CENTURIES after the war is a shantytown of rusting shacks built around an undetonated nuke that emits radiation
how can anyone see this shit and actually think to themselves "yes this is good world building, I can become immersed in this". How can there be so few people after 200 years. How are there no plants. Why would build a city there, just the hassle it would be to have to walk up an insanely steep hill to get around the place is enough to make it retarded.
it was an enemy only perk, every melee attack, and point lookout weapon had that bonus, not just the rifles
and i believe it was a straight 15 damage
but when you block virtually all damage, guaranteed 15 damage is still a ton
well if you're going melee you're more than likely going to have every damage blocking perk there is
I noticed it just because from a mile off w/ project nevada/the fo3 one i was getting crippled and sniped in full power armor
How is Megaton not overrun by mutants anyway?
Isn't that pretty much in the way of the vault where they are created and the city where they are swarming (btw has the game ever given a reason why the city was so full Super Mutants?).
They're whole defense is a protectron and one guy with a assault rifle.
Fallout 2 feels like a mod team got a huge budget and cranked out a bunch of cool stuff that doesn't fit together. I think it's more entertaining for longer than F1, but it's nowhere near as coherent or well put together.
New Vegas has fuckloads of moral choices, they're just not as blatantly obvious
>that guy smuggling water from the NCR to give to westside
>deciding who will watch over Primm
>beyond the beef
>that ghoul trooper in camp searchlight
Hell, you could label pretty much any quest with a peaceful or violent solution as a moral choice, as well as deciding what to do with the various factions in the wasteland
well if the lore is literly a copy of fallout 1 and 2 then i'm fine
So i dont see the problem with fallout 3
Besides quests literly just come down to reading and killing or finding things. If i can ignore you faggits and you're autsim i think i can handle bad diolouge in my video games
It's still the better game though.
Atmosphere is extremely important. Without atmosphere literally nobody would be playing games like Dark Souls or King's Field. Without atmosphere every game would be fucking soulless. Atmosphere is the single most important thing in a videogame. Making lasting atmosphere and gameplay mechanics that dont ruin it are the true arts of game development.
That's like saying higher graphics settings will allow you to enjoy shooting people and looting better. While they're a contributing factor higher graphics or atmosphere doesn't increase gameplay and are seperate from it.
>Atmosphere is the single most important thing in a videogame.
>more important than gameplay
The fuck are YOU talking about? Without quests and lore Fallout wouldn't just be fucking soulless, it would be completely broken.
>Besides quests literly just come down to reading and killing or finding things
>hurr faggits lelelele autism
Yeah you're mentally disabled
How was the atmosphere even good in FO3?
Unfitting TES-style music (NV's bringing back the classic music was so much better) and green puke everywhere.
And you're constantly completely taken out of any immersion because the games throws something oh so wacky or retarded at you.
I think you don't know what atmosphere is. Gameplay, lore, graphics, soundtracks, sounds, quests all contribute to the atmosphere, just like the story, the music and the visuals all contribute to atmosphere in movies.
Let me summarize Fallout NV's plot for you
You play as a nobody mailman delivering packages full of ultra-secret products that get found out about by Benny, a guy in a fancy suit that shouldn't know who you are, where you're going, or what you're carrying. After waking up from two bullets that should have killed you, you meet a robot who shouldn't know where you were but managed to dig you out of a pit that you should have died in. You meet up with the NCR and Caesar's Legion, two factions that hate each other for no apparent reason other than the fact that they do because of different viewpoints that don't make a difference in a place that doesn't care. After this shouting match between groups that shouldn't exist and shouldn't be fighting, you meet up with Benny again, who's carrying something he shouldn't have because he was trusted by someone who shouldn't have power in a group that shouldn't exist. He runs off to meet with the guys who want to kill him, at which point we're introduced to Mr. House, a man who shouldn't be alive despite being kept alive with technology that shouldn't exist, powered by electricity that shouldn't be there after a nuke and 150 years. Of course, you can also side with Yes Man, Benny's robot who shouldn't stay where he was and wants to help you rule a place with no benefit to you or him.
In the end, all of the factions wanted to turn on a dam that shouldn't work in a place that shouldn't be there and reroute a power source that shouldn't exist. After a "massive" war consisting of about 15 people total, one faction controls the dam that shouldn't work in a place that shouldn't be located in the place that it is. Credits.
listen to your own autism dude
I never fucking said atmosphere is better than fucking gamelplay.
I said it fucking adds to it
And being in a desert after a nuclear war doesnt make me feel like im in a apocolypse.
Being in a fucking capital city compleltey torn apart is better. Maybe im talking about setting here more than atmosphere but my point still stands
Fallout Tactics is a pile of shit mate.
The BGM in New Vegas was indeed superior, but the radio in Fallout 3 was a great source of atmosphere and beat New Vegas to shit when it comes to audio. Fallout 3 also had more sense of exploration and the feeling of an actual wasteland than New Vegas. New Vegas is just like a regular desert.
>And you're constantly completely taken out of any immersion because the games throws something oh so wacky or retarded at you.
Confirmed for never playing Fallout 2.
As someone who prefers Fallout 3 and gets the meme reference, this is clever but also kinda stupid.
>In the end, all of the factions wanted to turn on a dam that shouldn't work in a place that shouldn't be there and reroute a power source that shouldn't exist.
are you fucking retarded?
>despite being kept alive with technology that shouldn't exist
are you FUCKING retarded??
>you meet a robot who shouldn't know where you were
are you FUCKING RETARDED?
Jesus, why can't people who like Fallout 3 make ANY FUCKING VALID CRITICISM'S OF NEW VEGAS' SHITTY PLOT
Uh-huh. So a game with gameplay consisting of mashing a single button and quests like "Bring balloons to the birthday party of a giant rainbow-colored chicken and suck its cock" definitely wouldn't ruin the atmosphere of a Fallout game, right?
>Confirmed for never playing Fallout 2.
Retarded things in FO2 doesn't excuse retarded things in FO3. And the devs themselves admitted they went overboard with FO2. Bethesda doesn't even realize that.
I'm sorry are you acting as if i insulted you? I thought everyone here is a faggit with autism
Anyway i don't understand why you think that quests aren't just reading. I mean New vegas might have better situations where you read and kill things but like i said, Fallout 3s atmosphere/setting is just better
>mashing a single button
That's not atmosphere, that's gameplay mechanics.
>"Bring balloons to the birthday party of a giant rainbow-colored chicken and suck its cock"
Again, not atmosphere. You're describing a quest here. And it's a pretty shitty analogy at that.
You really don't know what atmosphere is do you?
>lelelele faggit autism my point still stands!
How can a single person be this retarded?
>gets examples of atmosphere-ruining gameplay and quests
>uh thats not atmosphere thats gameplay mechanics and a quest
That's the whole fucking point you fucking retard. I seriously don't know how a single person can be this fucking stupid.
>Fallout Tactics is a pile of shit mate.
>And the devs themselves admitted they went overboard with FO2.
And that's exactly what made the game as good as it is. It's exactly why the Fallout series got any popular too. So fuck off. Fallout always was "wacky".
Obsidian didn't create Fallout you fucking colossal plebs.
2 people who worked on Fallout 2 post development during the Black Isle days are in Obsidian. Literally 2.
Also all the Obsidian games I've played are piggyback pieces of shit. They might as well be fan made mods, because they're not complete games.
Kotor 2 was the worst SJW piece of shit I've ever played. The worst. It's not deep or well written because "le everybody is a secret jedi" and "le neutral feminist viewpoints".
Fuck you plebs make me sick.
Sure New Vegas was a decent game, pretty good actually, but it wouldn't fucking exist without Bethesda building their world engine for them. You can't just polish somebody else's work and pretend like you're better. That's fucking lazy. Obsidian is lazy, and an overall shit development studio.
I'm not convinced im right, I'm convinced i have a seperate opinion. Maybe i just dont care that betheshit made a lazy excuse for a story and I just want to have fun killing super mutants while listen to 40s jazz in a apocolyptic Washington DC
Nah. You're blatantly disregarding facts at this point. You don't deserve anything better than reaction images.
Have another, smart guy.
how could you possibly interpret what I said as that. Here's what I mean. You read and write like a fucking child, which means you're an idiot, which mean that your interpretations of Fallout 3 and New Vegas are useless for the purpose of discussion in this thread. All you can do is plug your ears shout ATMOSPHERE ATMOSPHERE ATMOSPHERE, strictly ignoring the completely retarded premise for Fallout 3's atmosphere, ignoring the shitty narrative, ignoring the half-assed dumbed down RPG mechanics that deny the player any freedom to make unique builds. All because the dunwich building was 2spooky and the entire place looks like it was hit last fucking week.
The hopelessness of arguing over Fallout 3 or New Vegas is always evident in these threads. There is no defense for Fallout 3 players when every single aspect of the game, save the collective imagery and feel of the world, the atmosphere is scrutinized. Fallout New Vegas is so much richer in story, characters, content volume, challenge, world building consistency, its gameplay is the same damn thing only better. But that will never matter to F3tards because apparently all they want out of a game is atmosphere no matter how shitty it is otherwise.
>but it wouldn't fucking exist without Bethesda building their world engine for them.
It would exist in another format if Bethesda didn't get the rights before Obsidian would have had enough money to.
So I'm disregarding facts
Even though i literly stated that fallout 3 has shit writing and i agreed with you
Even though i just like f3 better than nv for setting reasons
Are you even reading what i posted?
Make a character, give him a back story, and try to have him do what you think that he would do in that the situations he encounters.
you know, role play, see where it takes your character.
>implying japs don't know shit about video games
Again, what was good about the atmosphere.
I only hear liking the radio tracks but what was atmospheric about listening to Butcher Pete and shooting random shit?
You have no fucking idea what you're talking about. Fallout 1 was a fucking revolution in RPGs, C&C and huge branching dialog trees in an before unseen amount. It influenced pretty much every WRPG after it and became the new standard we judge PC RPGs on. And it had nothing to do with shit like putting a TARDIS in it.
Fallout 2 was just (much) more of it, that people like despite the wacky retarded shit (Did anyone every say shit like they liked the FO2 because it had a ghost?)
The hopelessness of arguing over Fallout 3 or New Vegas is always evident in these threads. There is no defense for New Vegas players when every single aspect of the game is scrutinized. Fallout 3 is so much richer in characters, content volume, exploration, world building consistency, music, the atmosphere, its gameplay is the same damn thing only better. But that will never matter to New Vegastards because apparently all they want out of a game is 2 devs that worked on the original Fallouts and a handful more of sloppily made quests and obviously forced, unpolished "faction" mechanics that take a shit on everything the Fallout games stood for.
Now you are just using accusations for shitposting.
What irony? I dunno why your so upset but your bad attempt at a no u response and canned laughter just makes you look even more retarded
Are you even reading what you're posting? you don't know what you're even talking about at this point
I agree with you. I keep trying to play through Kotor 2 and I think you just summed it up for me with 'le everybody is a secret jedi'
I just can't enjoy it.
I found KOTOR1 so much more fun yet according to /v/ my opinion is wrong.
>Reminder that radiation lasts for a thousands of years.
>Reminder that the shitty bombs they used to bomb the US were probably even a lot worse than the modern day dirty-bombs we have now.
>Reminder that, realistically, fallout 3's story is impossible because China would have blasted the fuck out of DC immediately with the worst shit they had, leaving every inch of the wasteland covered in thousands of rads forever.
>Reminder that the only stories that would make sense in the Fallout universe are ones based on the northern US, where less fallout would have fallen from the bombs blasted on the west coast
because who gives a fuck about seattle.
>How can a single person be this retarded?
I don't know, look in the mirror.
>uses examples of inherrently bad gameplay and quest design
>instead of actual examples of atmosphere
>in an argument on whether atmosphere is more important than gameplay and quests
>thinks he's made a point
I was right, you really are fucking braindead. Nothing better than watching a complete fucking retard unaware of his condition.
Prediction: one generic "talking about yourself" incoming.
>crawl through the boring starting bit
>kill a bunch of guards and grab the top-nigga's key
>on kinda low health due to guards
>get on even lower health due to bandits
>shamefully resort to using godmode else I'd never get anywhere due to know way to heal or avoide anything
>get to megaton
>still on 5 health
>still no way to heal
>head towards father
>bunch of mutants
>still no healing
>reach radio building
>find mini nuke
>blow up mutant
>shitload of talking
>still no healing
>give game a break
>never touch again
>Prediction: one generic "talking about yourself" incoming.
How is elementary school going for ya?
I've yet to hear one single argument from you that isn't just denying what I say.
The only reason we're having arguments about this is because Fvfags can never just deal with the fact that some people like F3 more. The fact that you think we're retarded for liking it more is just pure autism. What the fuck does it matter to you?
Yea Fv at points was better than f3 in many ways I can god damn admit that. Yea the lore is incredibly richer than f3. But thats not why i fucking play vidya
Thats why I would read books, or watch a movie.
But when gameplay aspects are litterly the same thing in both games using the same shitty engine I'd rather play 3.
>oh shit he got me, better call him underage!
I literally just explained it to you and refuted your shitty argument. But of course you're so fucking braindead you can't grasp simple arguments and are stuck in denial mode.
Again, shitty controls and quests don't prove that atmosphere is more important, it proves gameplay and quests are. Stay retarded son.
>WAHHH, WAAHHH, IM RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG!
>YOU'RE NOT SAYING WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, YOU'RE SAYING WHAT I WANT YOU TO SAY
>But I explained it to you in a simple manner
>YOU'RE RETARDED! I DONT UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING S-SO I'M RIGHT AND Y-YOU'RE W-W-W-WRONG! S-STAY R-R-RE-RET-T-TARDED SONNNNN
>being this salty
I remember seeing that Daily Show bit it first came on.
>post giant all caps greentext shitpost
>calls others salty
Now this is irony.
>FO1/2 ---> Not really hard but you can at least mess up.
M8 r u srs
FO1/2 ---> Save scum the whole fucking game because a critical hit will fucking wreck you. Run from almost every fight until halfway through the game (and even then when enemies are taking pot shots they have a chance to bypass your armour and fucking kill you), strategise like a motherfucker if you want to make serious progress (and again, save scum and use trial and error), be prepared to make mistakes because of the dice rolls (including critically wounding allies and having them critically wound you) and have a really low chance to manage any decent targeted shots (eyes, head and groin are all insanely low from the start iirc)
Once you actually get the mechanics down and get to a decent level it's not insanely difficult (telling followers not to use burst fire, getting small guns to 100%), but saying that the game isn't hard when the combat is so unforgiving is just silly.
In Fallout 3 the enemies, the enclave are faceless uncharacterized bad guys whilethe Brotherhood are completely altruistic good guys. This is just pathetically lazy and unrealistic writing that has the depth that could only appeal to illiterates like the F3 fans in this thread. A character writes itself if you just make it do the most morally correct thing regardless of how much it defies human nature. Actually coming up with consistent characters or factions that have some can be understood and show flaws (making them, you know, human) is more challenging for a writer, and leads to a far deeper immersion in the story, because you actually see the characters are humans and not silly cariacatures. The NCR and Legion are just like this, the fact that there is constant debate over who is right or should be sided with is proof of this. It's reasonable on one hand to believe that a democratic state that offers security, law and freedom to most is worth siding with, but they have their corruption, inefficiences making them imperfect. The Legion cuts out these corruptive, and inefficient traits of democracy and due process by acting in the interest of the strength of their state no matter if its violent or immoral. They are two believable factions warring over resources, that have different ideologies that both have merits and are up to the player to choose which he thinks is right. Just one of many ways New Vegas is much richer than Fallout 3 in terms of narrative.
>All this F3fags anal destruction.
Thank you Obsidan
I hated the whole critical hit business when trying to kill the Master. If you don't abuse them yourself, you're more than likely going to take one and die instantly in your power armor, even at 150+ health. On one hand, I like that there's a way to bypass armor in game, but on the other, it probably should've been only for specific weapons or eyeshots (At a massive hit penalty that can't be overcome by skilling up alone.).
Yet, the Enclave are still the best characterized.
Look at the Super Mutants, they're basically just animals who only care to sustain themselves and reproduce, even introduced a different type of Super Mutant dumb enough to be just animals. Compare that to every other Fallout, where you could actually talk to them and had goals that weren't just plain survival.
I mod Fallout 3 heavily and replay it somewhat frequently, despite enjoying FO1, 2, and NV as a series.
Why Bethesda even made FO3 part of the Fallout series is actually beyond me, as the games don't align in any gameplay or stylistic aspects, and the Fallout games were a niche and (arguably) forgotten name before FO3.
Why not make a new fantasy-post apocalyptic game inspired by Fallout? Why attach the goddamn title if it's going to be nothing like the first two?
The people clamouring for a new Fallout game are clued in about the vidya development world to know that the game was going to be nothing like what they wanted, and the Bethesda fans would have bought the game without the Fallout title.
Just seems like a useless decision.
What the fuck are you talking about
The legion is LITERLY asshole badguys. Slaves/sexist/probably racist aswell. All they want to do is fucking take over everyone and make them slaves. The only people who actually want to join them are fucking people who just want to play the other choice. No one in real life would actually want to join them unless you're the same guy who'd want to join the enclave and follow all their Pure-Humans only rule.
I'll give that NCR is corrupted even though they're seen as pretty much good guys for their democracy
But you can't actually tell me The legion is actually a considerable good
There were at least three different Cokes. New Coke became Coke II, and what they called Coca Cola Classic was in fact a third flavor. I don't know if we ever got the pre-New-Coke version back.
Pepsi destroys Coke anyway, by simple virtue of the fact that Pepsi has sloppy quality control and tastes different depending on the batch and where you buy it.
>>and the game is weak on moral conundrums like the Tenpenny ghoul problem, Harold, Constantine again, etc.
>Haha what? Those wear clear blatant black and white. Not to mention the main quest/story didn't have any choices at all.
How did you find them black and white? Some of these situations have no good answer. I walked away from both Tenpenny and the Harold thing. I wanted nothing to do with that shit. Do you say I was flat out wrong to do that? I think I did the right thing. This is one of the nice things about a well designed RPG.
The Constantine story puts you in the position of letting terrible people live so you can find some treasure. A similar thing happens with the vampire colony, which I felt should have been put down but couldn't bring myself to do it. The best example of all is the last visit to 101. Every satisfying reaction to your treatment there flies in the face of your role in the world and what you learn about your father. I wonder if you even considered walking away from that one.
the enclave in fallout 3 were barely characterized. When did you interact with them up until the end? They were complete caricatures. Oh we are evil and try to kill you and want to take over DC by owning the water purifier. What's hilarious is that the enclave in the previous fallouts were not pure evil, their idea of restoring America to its previous culture is kinda neat. They're prewar-americaboos. But In fallout 3 they just have to be the evil badguys that you have to stop before its too late! so despite their interesting ways they end up as nothing more than a bunch of idiots to shoot that hurry the story along in its ending.
>It's reasonable on one hand to believe that a democratic state that offers security, law and freedom to most is worth siding with, but they have their corruption, inefficiences making them imperfect. The Legion cuts out these corruptive, and inefficient traits of democracy and due process by acting in the interest of the strength of their state no matter if its violent or immoral. They are two believable factions warring over resources, that have different ideologies that both have merits and are up to the player to choose which he thinks is right.
Should I protect the farmers or join the cattle ranchers? I can't decide!
Fallout 3 is pretty much bethesda fanboy-sperg dream trying to continue their favorite series.
They didnt want to create something new so they just copied everything they liked from the games
Like a collage to emphasize how much the loved it
The point is to create a powerful authoritarian monarchy state that prospers by means of doing away with their weak and benefitting from slave labour. To some people this appeals to them and they're Nazis. Regardless, to those who see a powerful state by any means as the right thing Caesar's legion is the right choice.
>The legion is LITERLY asshole badguys
No they're not, they have a different ideology, one you clearly disagree with. That's not the same as cutboard cuttout villans who are just evil for the sake of being evil.
I've read good arguments on why the legion is a "considerable good" vs the other options in the game, even though I disagree with pretty much every one of them.
Obsidian just did a bad job representing them well.
You are told in the game that the Legion actually did good, that for example Arizona was much much worse off before the Legion.
But it never actually SHOWS Legion doing good thing, it's just side notes.
I think it was Sawyer, who said they focused most on the center of the world map and just didn't have the resources to add a lot of Legion content.
Then what about the enclave in the east
All they wanted to do is just keep all pure-humans and kill off anything mutated or whatvever they deem non-pure.
I mean there are people who will agree with that anyday aswell.
Why are they the ultra badguys in F3? Just because you can't join them?
Well you're not a nobody in F3, you're the son of a vault dweler scientist who is agianst the enclave.
So whats the difference if you could tell me
>Why not make a new fantasy-post apocalyptic game inspired by Fallout?
Name brands sell games or anything really. Look at EA, they buy a whole lot of shit to try and snare original fans, and for a while it worked. People eventually caught on though and now so harshly scrutinize new games in "dead" series that it's making things difficult.
If Bethesda made some other original title, it probably wouldn't had gained the same traction that Fallout did (And thus not the same amount of sales), but you're certainly right that it would've been received better since no one would have any expectations beyond Oblivion with guns.
I've heard that a lot of legion based fluff got cut from the game, such as a 5th DLC that would've given us insight into legion controlled lands. So now, all we have is a single merchant that says he loves doing business in legion land because there's not a single bandit that bothers him. I've got to admit, having guaranteed safety in a world as hostile as Fallout's would certainly be a big plus for any faction, which is really something the NCR can't provide outside of their settlements.
I don't see how it has anything to do with how they're represented in game.
The Legion's idea of "good" isn't inherently evil, they do things in game that can be easily interpreted as "good" if you're someone who agrees with their ideology, and NCR/House factions have plenty of things that are characterized as "bad" in the game as well.
>Why are they the ultra badguys in F3?
Because F3 makes them out to be the ultra badguys. The Enclave's whole purity ideology is only really explored in the first 2 Fallouts. Even NV does a better job of characterising them, even though you technically can't join them in that game either. And the fact that you're already predisposed to being against the enclave by your father and the fact that they're the central antagonists in F3 doesn't help either. Other anons already explained it better than I could >>262829036 >>262828764
The point is the Enclave in Fallout 3 were poorly characterised, whereas the Legion in fallout New Vegas were better characterised in comparsion, even if you want to handwave them as "sidenotes" despite the fact that they're actually part of the game and not just borrowing from the earlier ones.
>I don't see how it has anything to do with how they're represented in game.
Because the game spends most of the time with legion painting them as bad and their justifications for it hardly comes through.
The first encounter you have with the Legion is slaughtering a whole village, most of them non-combatants. In contrast, the first encounter with the NCR, is them wanting to save a town from criminals but being helpless to do so.
And the game doesn't really do much to balance that out later.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling NV shit or the Legion worse than FO3 bad guys.
Just that Legion could have been a lot better.
The NCR weren't really helpless, but they acted like opportunists. Instead of moving in and clearing it out as a good deed, they waited for you to do so then took over afterwards. Until you cleared out the initial wave of powder gangers, they weren't going to lift a finger.
Almost at every turn, the NCR shows themselves to be the same kind of opportunists as the historical United States, eager to grab more than they can to provide for their core population and not give a fuck who gets shafted in the process. The difference between them and the legion is that they're technically not causing any harm directly in their actions and come off at worse as uncaring.
The NCR had no real reason to be extending out towards Vegas, but they did anyway because there were resources to be had, namely Vegas as a city and outpost to spread their reach from and Hoover Dam to add to their power grid.