So, Smash 4 looks like it's shaping up to be Brawl 2.0 (no-trip electric bogaloo). At this point it either seems like Miyamoto Sakurai (and the higher ups) legitimately don't care about the fans of their game franchise....or maybe something much worse...
What if Mashpotato Samurai legitimately can't recreate the "bugs" in Melee? What if they have been trying to recreate the melee gameplay with the new platform all this time and through some fluke in all coding they can't recreate it correctly? What if our Senpai-kun has been taking the brunt backlash of the Smash community so they don't have to bear the crushing fact that any form of melee can't be re-created? He'd rather take on full force of all of our bitching and moaning so we don't have to know the ugly sad truth.
The game we want can't be made.
Speak for yourself, faggot. Even the competitive community it's excited with it. A good speed and pacing, combos are possible,, it's less floaty and new mechanics such as the new L-cancelling which was already discussed, having different landing lags for different attacks, the new ledge grab mechanic and the impossibily all mix up into a new, great game for both the casual and competitive audience.
The game you wanted was made in 2001 and then remaded as PM. Play that if you want, but please stop being an enourmous faggot.
Though that, by your image, I guess your little anus still hurts from having both Ice Climers AND chained combos removed.
>What if Mashpotato Samurai legitimately can't recreate the "bugs" in Melee?
You know that competitive players make up a very small portion of "the fans" right?
Sakurai himself thinks of Smash as a party game. Why people try to play Smash competitively when it wasn't designed to be is beyond me.
You know who Smash is made for? Nintendo fans. People who want to see a game with Mario and Pikachu on the same screen.
When you were little and played Smash 64 for the first time, did you care about the competitive scene? No.
There are hundreds of thousands of kids that are excited for this game, just like you were for the first game.
Competitive players are entitled assholes who think that the entire Smash Bros franchise revolves around their little tournaments. It doesn't.
Well, I have a Jap 3DS and I am playing the demo right now.
The game is fucking perfect. There, said it. It feels like Brawl, if Brawl was a perfect game.
Think Brawl but flaws are gone. Its smooth as fuck and hitting your opponent feels great. It feels more competitive than Brawl ever did.
Why is 4chan the only place that doesn't consider smash a fighting game? Smash is even apart of the FGC.
I like Melee more than Brawl, but I don't understand why you want the upcoming game to be exactly like it. You don't have to have wavedashing to make a competitively viable Smash game if 64 is anything to go by
I'm just hoping Smash 4 hits the middle ground well enough by having a fast enough pace. Going by what we know so far it's already shaping up better than Brawl to begin with, though we've yet to see the final build in practice.
You can't kill an opponent with the numbers going up! What is this North Korea???
You are fucking retarded.
Literally no one outside of the autistic online competitive community thinks Melee is better than Brawl.
Brawl is better in every single way that actually matters to the majority of players. Amount of characters, content, music, graphics, single player, customizability, stages...
You're saying that Nintendo should cater to the 1% of players who treat Smash as a competitive fighting game? Well fuck you that will never happen.
Because the CREATOR doesn't consider it one.
There are hundreds of other fighting games out there to compete in. I don't understand why so many competitive players try to make Smash into something it isn't.
>Literally no one outside of the autistic online competitive community thinks Melee is better than Brawl.
Me and everyone I know really enjoy melee over brawl, and we're hyper casual at "fighting" games, or party games, or what have you.
It was way too floaty and it ended up being a lot more boring and a lot less fun.
Plus the items kinda sucked compared to melee.
>being this retarded
Tell you what. I'm going to make a game. Itll star a character with legs who can jump a lot. He will jump across platforms and all sorts of obstacles, and will jump all the time. And I'll call it a racing game and declare anyone who thinks otherwise a faggot because obviously since I'm the creator, my word is law and I can make bullshit up all the time. In fact, I'll call it a tactical espionage card based racing game. Because that's totally what the game is
Isn't the Red Shell the ONLY item from melee that didn't come back? Just turn off everything else.
I've got a bunch of casual friends and they like Brawl better because it has a shitload more content. Anyone who plays Smash and complains about the "floatiness" should just be playing a different game.
>mfw all these meleefags shitposting after their shitty tourneycirclejerk retro garbage game has been usurped by the TRUE SMASH BROS EXPERIENCE
I hope you get cancer and aids, then infect the rest of the project M: Muh Maylay sitters with your aids and cancer so you can all die like you fucking deserve. Then fans can finally enjoy smash brothers as brothers without your Diarrhea purifying every thread with "BASED PROJECT MELEE FUCK YOU SAMURAI" when your mod wouldn't exist without the hard work and dedication of Sakurai and those who put in real effort to try to deliver a product people will enjoy. You defame everything his games stand for while you beg for scraps of his work so you can cut them up and stitch them back together into a mangled, gruesome visage of his dream. Fuck off and die Melee faggots.
So the franchise needs to stay afloat purely from appealing mascots? Brawl was fun for a while, and I was very excited to see snake, but there's a reason I only play that game on rare occasion while Melee is a huge timesink.
Wanting good gameplay from a game is not entitlement.
Thats your group of friends, the gaming circle in our town roughly 20 in size all prefer Brawl over Melee. I personally prefer Brawl over Melee and I am a tourny fag for SSF4.
>Anyone who plays Smash and complains about the "floatiness" should just be playing a different game.
What? We like playing it because we get to beat the shit out of eachother, and brawl just gives you less control over that.
Actually scratch that. 1 friend of mine enjoys brawl over melee, purely because he loves playing ike and spamming that dash move and his B up. The other 20 odd people enjoy melee over brawl because it's just more fun.
but then again over half of them prefer 64 > Melee > Brawl, because your hits are a lot more powerful in the older games
>people actually taking OP's bait
You realize that most people, even tourneyfags are happy with the way the game's turning out?
No I hate his be a pussy and wait for time to run up playstyle.
I mained snake
>me and everyone I know
>I talk about the people I know personally
Never mind I forgot how ignorant melee supporters are sometimes
I think a Brawl/Melee comparison is inherently flawed because we know that brawl was reactionary to the meta which arose around Melee. I agree that the reaction was too strong. Tripping and the general "weight" of brawl felt awful.
Looking at Smash4, I'm getting a vibe much closer to the original but with content levels on par with brawl - which I am very okay with.
This. It's retarded in any game when there are characters that aren't even viable on a casual level, or are so gimmicky and shitty that you wouldn't even want to play them. In Melee about 1/2 of the cast is S / A tier. In Brawl just about 1/6 are A or above, and the rest just get increasingly shittier until F.
Hilariously UMVC3 functions better as a party game because you can at least pick random characters and it won't be too much of a difference, if the point is fan service why should I be deterred from picking a character because they're so horrendously broken that they either require way too little or way too much effort to actually use?
Also I'm questioning if there is actually a living organism in this galaxy who legitimately enjoys playing as Pokemon Trainer for extended periods of time.
I'm pretty optimistic about Smash 4 being the best one yet (mainly the Wii U version).
> Way more characters (and say what you want about clones, this game has the lowest ratio of them other than 64 which had a whopping 12 characters total). I think the roster is great - lots of unique movesets in there. I think people consume every little bit of info they can get their hands up for years before release and they lose that initial excitement from all the new characters. For example, people who are already bored of Megaman and call him shit before the game is out and before even having played the game.
> Seems to be a mix of the good things from Brawl and the good things from Melee (mainly the speed is better. Smash 4 Pikachu is supposedly faster than Melee Pikachu, among other speed increases). No tripping as well, and some moves have no landing lag.
> HD Visuals. Smash finally enters the era of HDTVs without looking like blurry ass.
> Online with items / no items as an option.
> Gamecube Controller support.
Sorry but I'd rather have all these improvements if all it costs me is a couple Melee maneuvers. People that want that can stay here, I'll take the 50 character roster game that fixes all of Brawl's shortcomings.
Xenoblade isn't magically a fighting game despite the frequency and quantify of combat you participate in. I don't consider Asura's Wrath a fighter even though the entire game is about fighting.
What the hell are you talking about?
>Literally no one outside of the autistic online competitive community thinks Melee is better than Brawl.
That is what we're talking about. And that's a factually wrong statement. And that's why I posted.
So why are you posting?
It's the best roster we had so far.
The newcomers make more than up for the cuts and counting additions that you don't like as something that makes the roster worse is just retarded.
but your original point was still that lots of people prefer melee over brawl outside of just the online competitive community, that just happens to be your small sample size.
>people saying Smash is a fighting game
This is a fighting game
Notice the health bars and lack of platforms
It's also a 1vs1 game, there's no other option, because it isn't a party game
This. Brawl was extremely fun at a time, but it got stale fast. The menus aren't very pleasing to look at compared to other more stylized menus in Nintendo games, and a large amount of the content was fluff. Most of the stuff related to trophies, stage builder was pretty much only useful past the first 2 months unless you used homebrew, the demos were essentially just 2 minute advertisements, and more.
Subspace also felt terrible because the enemies were about as spongy and awful as late-Borderlands 2 enemies, the physics didn't make for fun platforming so the only rewarding parts were the cutscenes and knowing that you're unlocking things from it, the gameplay was a chore otherwise. This coupled with the fact target tests were disappointing and pointless, and aside from unlocking one VERY shitty stage and jigglypuff, events weren't really that great either.
>Up-Tilts: The Movie
I spent more time running around in Xenoblade than I did fighting, and Asura's Wrath is a Beat'em up. The difference between those and Smash is that Smash is focused on humans fighting other humans in the vein of traditional fighting games. Whether or not it's a party game inconsequential to whether or not it's a fighting game. Is Madden not a sports game because it's often played in groups?
Trying to argue with any of these people on /v/ who think smash isn't a fighting game is like hitting your head against a wall. Let the ignorant who know nothing about fighting games stay ignorant.
This shit is top kek 10/10 - IGN.
Will upload to facebok/twitter/instagram/reddit/9gag/pinterest/geocities/myspace and 4chan in 2 weeks.
Thanks for taking the bait guys; much appreciated.
The thing is, I loved SSE too, but I think it was also because the excitement made the game seem so amazing the first month, and because it was co-op gameplay that wasn't just re-playing Streets of Rage again. Though once you get to around the middle, the only thing that really motivates you to plow through all those shitty trumpet, eyeball, and totem enemies are the promise of unlockables.
It's strange that just seeing those barrels and doors give me a small unique feeling of disgust now. As a fun little exercise, if you have Brawl or Dolphin, play SSE up until when you're able to play as Donkey Kong and unless you really love that mode, you'll have a strong urge to turn the game off.
>its not a fighting game, its a fighting game where the maps may or may not have platforms
holy shit im not sure if i should laugh or feel sorry for you people
Minecraft PVP. You're argument is invalid.
>I'm a stream monster, that's why I say Smash isn't one*
Or maybe it's only retards like you that care abotu MUH COMPETITIVE PLAY, BUT IM THE REAL FANS, and normal people will actually love it.
Also you'll buy it anyway, so who gives a fuck.
>its not a fighting game its a platform fighting game
There's also things like no health bars, multiple players and items. Accept it, Smash is too different to be called a fighint game.
If you really want to have the words "fighting game" just give it its own subgenre like platform fighter or some shit
Is my mom a fighting game then?
this is important
considering it the core gameplay mechanics are the same in almost ever aspect, yes id say its a sub genre at best
and saying no health bars is the most autistic argument i can image
>hit a certain %
>youre guaranteed to die
>hit a certain level of health
>youre guaranteed to die
If you hit her enough times and there isn't a platform.
She just might be.
Just because you can turn shit off it doesn't change that it's there and that it's the core of the game in the first place. Holy fuck
They're very different and you know it, stop trying to spin things with unrealistic situations
This just in Street Fighter X Tekken is not a fighting game because it allows more than two players at once!
>Just because you can turn shit off it doesn't change that it's there and that it's the core of the game in the first place. Holy fuck
>NOOOOOOOOO! STOP ENJOYING THINGS THAT I DON'T
Yes it does, or at the very least a sub genre
I'm not retarded
No, but Smash has enough different things that it needs to be separated from traditional 2D fighting games, labels and genres are important.
That's not what I'm saying you retarded fuck, I enjoy Smash
I never said anything about items being bad, jsut that thanks to stuff like items Smash is different enough to have its own subgenre, holy fuck reading comprehension is bad here
>Saltford Kelly is that you?
I'm perfectly fucking with Smash being a sub-genre from Classic Fighting Games
But don't fucking tell me Smash is not a Fighting game
Fighting games are not just
Muh 2d streetfighter
>tfw no more Ice Climbers/DeDeDe team battle
I...I'm going to be okay...
>At this point it either seems like Miyamoto Sakurai (and the higher ups) legitimately don't care about the fans of their game franchise
Or it's a game made for children and they really couldn't give a fuck about an autistic group of faggots that take a party game as a competitive fighter. What's next, competitive Mario Party?
How does it feel knowing Sakurai is catering to tounreyfags with things like For Glory mode? I bet it tears you casual, dumbfucks up.
right, and 3d fighting games arent fighting games because they arent fighting games in the traditional sense
omg.... The autism in this thread is so real I don't know if mirrors are real.
HOLY SHIT WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING.
It's two dudes fighting
No matter how many things you turn off or on in smash you are 2-4 dudes fighting.
Health bars are not essential for a fighting game to be a fighting game
The core fundamentals are changed though, you have platforms and no health bars, also multiple players are possible.
Turning something off doesn't mean the features are not there.
Genres can't be too broad otherwise they lose meaning. That's why there's a distinction between fighting games, 3D fighting games, brawlers, arena fighters and all the others. But for some reason Smash players are the only ones who can't comprehend it
I really don't understand what's your problem
Gta is also not a driving game because you can shoot
Smash has way more ways to give you fanservice than just a balanced rooster.
All those stickers, CDs, trophies, events, stages, items and single player modi have way more fanservice impact.
>turning the feature off means they're not there
Except that's exactly what it does. It makes them not there.
>If Sakurai didn't want people to play without items, why did he give the option?
Quoting myself again because you're a retard and keep trying to make the same argument.
You don't even know what fundamentals are. You literally have no idea what you're arguing about. I can tell just by the way you're arguing that you've never played any fighting game competitive, so I will break it down for you.
>Most everything that can be considered fighting game fundamentals can be be summed up in one word: footsies. Footsies covers:
-when to attack
-what attack to use (poking/counter-poking)
-where to attack from (spacing)
-when to defend
Trying to say Tekken isn't a fighting game is just icing on the cake.
Holy fuck you're retarded. That's not what the core of fighting games is, the core of fighting games is SF2, you just made up your own definition on the fly.
Fighting games were defined by SF2 so SF2's mechanics are the definiton.
After SF2 came out games that diverged from the formula created its own sub genres like 3D fighters.
>But for some reason Smash players are the only ones who can't comprehend it.
You don't have to play a game to realize what type of game it is. Mentally handicapped people like you think that if something even slightly deviates from the norm it deserves a new genre. Otherwise you'd have people stating that SMRPG is a platformer RPG, and Namco x Capcom is a turnbased fighting game. But you're probably just going to say every fighting game needs to be what SF2 and Mortal Kombat were because you're a fucking idiot.
I don't know any people who call SMRPG simply an RPG. It's too different for that. I don't know Namco x Capcom so I can't comment on that.
And yes if you want the label of a fighting game the game needs to be similar to SF2
>3d fighters aren't traditional 2d fighters, so they aren't fighting games even though they share the same core fundamentals
Dawg, you are beyond helpless.
They don't share the same core fundamentals because one of the core fundamentals is 2D plane.
That's why 3D fighting games are called 3D fighting games, because the distinction is the 3rd plane.
please, your understanding of fighting games as a whole is just so poor. Just go to bed man.
>Every fighting game must be some variation of SF2
You think you won an argument because you greentexted? Yes, health bars, that's a huge difference.
Also like I said before, just because you can turn something off doesn't mean it shouldn't be labeled.
No, your understanding is poor, I bet you're underage and didn't even play SF2 when it was new
>never played brawl before
>wonder why everyone always bitches about it
>get my copy in the mail
>boot it up
>"this isn't bad, why does-"
>start noticing my character occasionally trips for seemingly no reason
>"surely I'm doing something wrong"
>it keeps on happening
>look it up
>there's literally always a chance for you to randomly trip for no reason
How fucking retarded do you have to be to add something like that to any game?
>hurr lemme make a shooter but you randomly drop your gun for no reason
Smash Bros is a fighting game, and the post responding to me will have a 3.
So Naruto fighty fight game and DBZ reboot 99 the fightening game arent fighting games? My feels. I cant even anymore.
Anyways this is OP signing off thanks for all shitty shit post rebuttals; it brought me back to my youth.
No they're not, they're called 3D fighting games. Smash isn't a fighting game, like I said, if you want to have "fighting" in the genre name call it platform fighting or something.
It's not a traditional fighting game though
The entire competitive community is currently shitting themselves in happiness at this version of Smash Bros.
It's significantly faster than Brawl, there's very little landing lag and some moves even auto cancel. There's Pivot Smashes. There's Dash Dancing (to an extent). There's no tripping. Chain grabs have been removed. Link ISN'T SHIT. Mario ISN'T SHIT. Mega Man CAN KEN COMBO.
All of these things add up to make Smash Bros 4 greatest of all time.
We're not even anywhere near people being able to discover advanced techniques either, so we have that to come.
>fgc is ignorant about fighting games
smashfags will never learn
I hope they patch tripping back in. That shit was hella funny
>There are hundreds of other fighting games out there to compete in.
Most of which use similar mechanics and none of which have what Smash offers.
>I don't understand why so many competitive players try to make Smash into something it isn't.
Because it's the game we all wish more other fighters were like but aren't. It fixes all the shit I hate about other fighters and gives you the freedom and abilities to do awesome shit you can't in anything else.
>When you were little and played Smash 64 for the first time, did you care about the competitive scene? No.
Because it never existed, you dipshit.
>Competitive players are entitled assholes...
Because wanting a more fluid game that doesn't have a skill ceiling is totally being entitled, when these things allow for a more fun game all around, from casual to competitive play.
Nobody, or very few people, want Smash 4 to be "exactly like [Melee]"
Most want it to be its own thing that has speed and rewards aggressive play.
We're also not yet to see the final build in practice. That's what the demo is. It's the final build. Have you not heard that Smash for 3DS is currently in top 5 on Twitch for video game streams?
Well I'm perfectly fine for smash to be called something else than fighting game like Platform Fighter or whatever
But it's still a fucking Fighting game
You can't just reserve that for 2D and 3D alone
And I never said Smash was a Traditional Fighter
Ah, yes. I forgot that graphics, number of characters and stages make a better game than GAMEPLAY.
Holy fuck, you're retarded.
Even back when I was hyper casual, didn't know about the competitive community etc. I preferred Melee to Brawl, because Brawl was too slow, too floaty and tripping really ground my gears.
>At this point it either seems like Miyamoto Sakurai (and the higher ups) legitimately don't care about the fans of their game franchise
Brawl sold 12 million copies and is the best selling entry in the franchise. Smash tournies are entered by a couple hundred and watched by around 20-30 thousand at max, normally much less. Silent majority overrules tiny vocal minority when it comes to business.
Nintendo don't give a fuck about the couple thousand neckbears crying over competitive gaming. They care about all those millions of kids that just want Mario to fight Link. Fuck, they're now even selling Smash as a skylanders product where you buy little plastic figures that interact with the game. I don't think Nintendo could be more open with who the Smash audience is unless they shot a fucking satellite into orbit that exploded to form the words "SMASH IS FOR CHILDREN."
at this point you're so deep I can't actually tell if you are 'le trolling' or actually think you're right. Even if you were trolling im sure by now you've actually convinced yourself of the opinion you argue so congratulations and good bye
>all these butt devastated casual elitists
>liking a game causalized on purpose
>can't learn how to press three buttons at once
B-B-BUT MUH P-P-PARTY GAME GAYS. M-MUH LAY IS T-TOO FAST FOR MR G-GUYS.
>fighting game is another name for SF2-like
Okay back to talking about how Tekken and all other 3D Fighting games are not Fighting games
If you want a competitive game go and play a real fighter.
Ironic how you call others casual when the only reason you play competitive smash is because you're not good enough to learn a real fighter.
Maybe I enjoy Melee because its not like other fighters but can still be played competitively due to its high learning curve? Maybe I enjoy being part of the scene? Maybe I don't have that special attachment that I have with Melee? Saying its a party game is nothing but an excuse.
You're reserving Fighting game for SF alone, if it's not a catbon copy it's not a Fighting Game anymore suddenly
Fighting Game is the overarching Genre
2D or 3D are reffering to specific games
Yet you are telling me Fighting Game is something completly different from a 3D Fighting game
>Fighting Game is the overarching Genre
Fighting games were 2D since the beginning, it doesn't make sense to say 2D fighter and 3D fighter when 3D is the only one that's different from the "fighting game" established by SF2.
You gotta go the distance
You just keep on saying 2D fighters=Fighting Game
Meaning anything that isn't a Carbon copy of SF2 is not fighting games
I give, you got me, hook line and sinker I can't do this anymore with you.
And I think you are
>People loved Brawl
>At this point it either seems like Miyamoto Sakurai (and the higher ups) legitimately don't care about the fans of their game franchise
Why are tourneyfags so dense? The game was not made for you, you never was the target demographic, why is this so hard to understand?
You literally have no argument
You just make assumptions to fit the genre into your perception of it not what it actually is and now you're acting as if you're the one who's right.
Please stop embarrassing yourself.
There are legitimately people who think like this though. Except they lack the self awareness to see that 3D fighters are as different from 2D ones as those are from Smash.
Smash is more of a fighter than any arcade game because its momentum and knockback system results in a dynamic that feels closer to actual real life sparring than any game without it and with tons of joystick buffering instead.
Yes, smash isn't a traditional fighting game because of combination of all of those
>it's not SF2
isn't true. Traditional fighting games can be different from SF2, I mean SF3 and SF4 are quite different.
However when you change something as core as health bars it becomes its own sub genre and shouldn't be called a fighting game
>Except they lack the self awareness to see that 3D fighters are as different from 2D ones as those are from Smash.
But I've said that multiple times, both 3D fighters and Smash aren't fighting games
How is it not core? Health bars literally dictate how the game is played, because of the way you get KOs in Smash is changed drastically the gameplay is changed too.
Also health bars aren't the only thing that diverges from the standard fighting game.
The point is that is has always been shallow and casual? Why don't you go play a real fighting game if you desire a hardcore experience?
You can even play DOA if you suck that much.
Guys, I had a dream last night
>booting up SSB4 for the first time
>go to options
>see button: Melee (with the same font)
>game mechanics change to the Melee mechanics
>casuals can still play with "everybody wins" mentality
>others can try combos and get good in "Melee Mode"
My post was a get, as well as a request for a get. I called a 45, so someone else needs to get a 45 as well.
Fighting game is a video game genre in which the player controls an on-screen character and engages in close combat with an opponent. These characters tend to be of equal power and fight matches consisting of several rounds, which take place in an arena. Players must master techniques such as blocking, counter-attacking, and chaining together sequences of attacks known as "combos".
SF2 refined the Fighting games genre not set it in stone
No one cares about your bitching and moaning you self entitled douchebag. The game will be amazing and if you don't like it by all means go back to playing Playstation All Star Battle. Fuck off.
Nobody cares about your autistic need to play smash competitively. Go play SFIV, everyone else is fine enjoying smash casually. I'm fucking sick of the cancerous tourneyfag community sperging out because its not as fast as muh melee.
>while /v/ actually knows about good fighting games.
I haven't laughed this hard in days
No matter how you shake it
Fighting Games will always be games like Tekken SF Dragonball Smash
They are all different Fighting Games but they will always have that one thing common that they are all Fighting Games
Antitourneyfags are the most obnoxious and whiny faggots on this board, they've basically switched places with the people they despise. Arguing with them is pointless, they still believe tourneyfags take the the Fox only FINAL DESTINATION maymay seriously.
That's not how it works, fighting games aren't an overarching genre, fighting games are restricted to games similar to SF2.
Everything else isn't a fighting game but its own thing
I love how Melee is responsible for everything wrong with Smash, when there are people that make discussion of Smash Bros impossible, and the only thing that ends up being discussed are speculations on new games, and roster shitposting.
The thing that makes Smash different from other fighting games, more than anything, is the amount of movement options you have with your character.
Everything in the game is based around being able to move your character smoothly in every direction. That's the fun part of it for me, too. Melee was the best for it. Brawl was terrible. Smash 4 looks better than Brawl but still makes absolutely irredeemable mistakes like not having forward momentum carry into your jumps. Like, what the fuck? That's something Nintendo figured out in 1985. That's what made Mario feel so much better than any other platformer at the time. Honestly, how could they take that out?
Reminder that there are shitheads on both sides.
Tourneyfags, competitive Melee players who are playing the current build are satisfied with it.
Anti-tourneyfags, YOU guys are the ones being elitist about how Smash should be played. And we prefer its gameplay over "real fighting games".
>what if they have been trying to recreate the melee gameplay with the new platform all this time and through some fluke in all coding they can't recreate it correctly?
Coder here, shit would be easy to recreate on Wii U. Most of Melee's code is probably still in SSB4. Shit hasn't been written in assembly (non-portable code) since the SNES days.
Kerfuffle is different to Melee because he wants it to be.
>Your own made up definition doesn't matter here
But yours does? I seriously hope you're just triyng to ruse me here because if you honestly believe that fighting games aren't a video game genre and is limited only to SF2 then I just feel sorry for you.
L-cancelling is hard because you have to make new animations for every aerial.
Wavedashing is super easy. All they have to do is add directional airdodging again.
Stuff like jump cancellable shine, land cancelled lasers, edgecancelling... all of those are super easy too.
I love how you use Melee as a scaepgoat for all the problems with smash threads, as if speculations on new games and roster shitposting wouldn't happen regardless. Especially when it's really only on /v/ where discussion of Smash Bros is impossibe, and it's usually do the incessent amount of shitposting from people mad over tourneyfags and /v/'s overal ignorance on fighitng games as a whole (pic very related)
Traditional fighting games are defines by SF2, that's common knowledge. Suddenly making fighting games some kind of overarching genres and putting tons of other stuff under the umbrella makes no sense.
Why should we say 2D fighting games and 3D fighting games when fighting games by default are 2D and 3D are the odd ones out?
>FGC stream monsters and other non-playing babies can't stand that Smash has been getting more attention then whatever version of SF4 we're up to
>Also can't come up with any reason that Smash isn't an interesting, skillful, competitive game
>Retreat to the exact same "not a real fighting game, it's a party game" arguments they've been using for over a decade
>Literally have not come up with a single new argument in a decade while Melee is more popular than ever
nice job you embarrassments
>I love how you use Melee as a scaepgoat for all the problems with smash threads
Did you even read the post you're responding to retard? You said essentially the same thing but with completely unrelated FGC shit as well.
>Traditional fighting games are defines by SF2, that's common knowledge.
You realize SF2 isn't the first fighting game right?
And no it's not common knowledge, that's your own made up definition. Fighitng games have been an overaching genre since fucking Karate Champ if not earlier
Also you seriously saying 3D fighters aren't real fighting games? Nobody is this retarded
Welp, too late I guess since I already typed this post. I'll stop feeding the troll now though, thanks.
I have to go to class now, but I really want to emphasize that I've been having this argument on /v/ since before Brawl was announced
I know that I'm pathetic tooand only once has someone actually tried to argue against Smash on the merits of its gameplay. Just once. And he made several really good points about how the number of options in Melee made choosing proper approaches, conditioning and reads much less important. But he also acknowledged that Melee had a lot going on and was still a great competitive game.
Every single other time it's the same "hurr glitches, hurr items, hurr Fox only" bullshit with the exact same flaws.
I don't know why I bother.
>You realize SF2 isn't the first fighting game right?
It isn't first but it literally defined the genre
And yes 3d fighting games aren't fighting games, they're 3d fighting games
You guys getting seriously upset and aggravated that a party game designed for casual fun isn't meeting your requirements for a serious, competitive fighter is simultaneously the most hilarious and pathetic thing I've ever witnessed.
You people are the symptom of a diseased society. One in which people who should be productive, active members of the population are reduced to pathetic, greasy, stagnating blobs who dedicate their passion and energy to ranting and raving about a fucking video game.
Scrap what I said earlier - there is nothing hilarious about it - it makes me sick to the pit of my stomach.
Is this what you think you exist for? To spit bile at other bottom feeders like yourselves over the Internet?
After you're done savagely attacking me personally in an attempt to shift your self-loathing; take some time to reflect on your own worthlessness.
>You said essentially the same thing
Yeah no, you definetely didn't read the post you're responding to or this thread at all. And the "FGC shit" isn't unrelated, /v/ really doesn't know jack shit about fighitng games whether it be Smash or SF or anime fighters. You're a full blown retard blaming melee for speculations on new games and rosters which happens regardless.
Read any article about fighting games, SF2 is commonly acknowledged to be the defining game for fighting games.
It's only logical that anything that diverges too much from it isn't a fighting game anymore
>And yes 3d fighting games aren't fighting games, they're 3d fighting games
Never change /v/
Holy fucking shit what the fuck is wrong with this thread? Smash is not a fighting game, at all, you would literally have to have no brain at all to be unable to see what separates it from the fighting genre.
Lets go on record first of all that Sakurai said it isn't a fighting game. The game creator specifically says that Smash is not a fighting game. http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/jun/21/sakurai-says-smash-bros-isnt-fighting-game-completely-different-label-talks-game-development-fighting-genre-and-value-unpredictability/
Next, victory conditions are based on KOs and score generated by KOs in both stock and timed matches. Faggots keep saying "muh healthbar don't mean no fighting gaem >:(" but Smash's percent mechanic and stock based mechanics do completely separate it from the fighter genre. In fighting games, matches are divided into rounds, and once an opponents health bar reaches 0, both players start another round, on EQUAL footing. This is not true of smash, where you can revive and punish an opponent at high percentages while you yourself have a great advantage. In smash percent doesn't reset, andplayers don't go life for life on equal footing. This is a major difference, not to mention the percentage dynamic alone completely differentiates it.
Another one is, yes, platforms, and no matter what you say this is another thing that changes things completely. There are no obstacles in 3D nor 2D fighters. Stages are generally completely flat. Even though you can jump in 2D fighters and traditional fighters, there's no platforms, nor obstacles. There is nothing to interfere with the fight between either player, its a controlled environment based completely on the calculations of both players. Smash is not this. Smash is a game with uncontrollable variables and items which destroy the balance and equal footing that fighting games struggle to achieve. A nonsensical, random chaos is always present whether you play with items or not. Stages have walls and obstacles. High percentage players can wall tech to prolong their deaths, moving or destructible stage elements can disadvantage players or change the play method entirely.
Simplicity of input should be a pretty easy one for everyone to understand as another element separating smash from fighting games. Fighting games have complex inputs for their special moves, but smash is designed in a way that complete beginners can pick the game up and learn it with incredible ease. This is one of the main elements that puts it into the party game genre. Sakurai designed it so that everyone of any age or skill could pick up the game and enjoy it with their friends, socially even. Fighting games require incredible practice and hours of combo training to even have basic competence, and the learning of whatever other mechanics that game offers (bursts, breaks, 1more, whatever).
I can't even believe people are trying to spin this as a fighting game. I mean I know smash players are just super casuals who can't play real fighting games so they settle for party brawler platformers but come on.
From wikipeda, unfortunately I can't link to the source because it's dead, it was on gamespot
>Street Fighter II, though not the first fighting game, popularized and standardized the conventions of the genre, and similar games released prior to Street Fighter II have since been more explicitly classified as fighting games.
There weren't any other fighting games back then, there was no distinction between 2D and 3D, that's why by definition fighting games ARE 2D and the odd ones out, like 3D fighting games, have their own subgenres like "Arena fighters" or "3d fighting games"
>You're a full blown retard blaming melee for speculations on new games and rosters which happens regardless.
Except originally the post said that melee was the least of the problems, meanwhile only roster related discussion and shitposting was possible. Which was responding to how anti-tournyfags, the people who are usually blaming Melee for everything, are the worst. How fucking stupid do you have to be to read that and think that it meant melee was responsible especially when that's not even close to making sense? There was FGC discussion in the thread, but that wasn't related to THOSE two specific posts.
You're a fucking idiot for not being able to distinguish that.
Ignoring the fact that Wikipedia is a fucking terrible source for genre definitions, you're STILL wrong because nowhere in that quote does it say SF2 invented the fighitng game genre, it only popularized its conventions. Nor does it state that fighitng games are limited to 2D. The second half of your post is missing from the Wikipedia page on fighitng games. Here's Wikipedia's full definition of a fighting game:
>Fighting game is a video game genre in which the player controls an on-screen character and engages in close combat with an opponent. These characters tend to be of equal power and fight matches consisting of several rounds, which take place in an arena. Players must master techniques such as blocking, counter-attacking, and chaining together sequences of attacks known as "combos". Since the early 1990s, most fighting games allow the player to execute special attacks by performing specific button combinations. The genre is related to but distinct from beat 'em ups, which involve large numbers of antagonists.
>This period spawned numerous popular fighting games in addition to Street Fighter, including successful and long running franchises like Mortal Kombat, and later Virtua Fighter and Tekken.
Notice how the definition includes games like Tekken and Virtua Fighter, which are 3D fighting games. You'll also find mentions of 3D fighters like Bushido Blade and Smash throughout the article, and they aren't given a special catagory of not being true fighting games.
So where's that source saying 3d fighting games aren't fighting games?
>The game creator specifically says that Smash is not a fighting game
So I guess if I make a game where you get a car, and drive around a track competing with other players to see who can get to the finish line first, it's not a racing game because I specifically say it's not a racing game. Make sense.
Subgenres are by definition part of the genre they're under. A 3D fighting game is still a fighting game by definition.
Not inventing the genre doesn't matter in this situation.
SF2 is what defined the genre and that's what's important.
Where's the logic in considering something a fighting game when it plays nothing like THE fighting game? What's the point of genres if they're so broad?
Also like you said, wikipedia is a bad place for this shit. I only used it because the source died.
Sub genres aren't the same as the main genre though, it makes no sense to equal Tekken and SF and that's what you faggots are trying to do.
After reading all these arguments over and over, the tourneyfags seem to approach the discussion in a way better mindset.
The casuals seem very spiteful and resort to memes more
As a casual player, I can care less, but god damn if I'm going to attack tryhards past a little teasing.
speak for yourself assclown. I love everything about this game so far. It is easily going to be the best smash.
>god tier roster
b-but muh most wanted character didnt get in so rosters shit ;(
get over it faggot your most wanted would've been shit anyway
>god tier music
Fuck, i've never cared about a games soundtrack before but this games soundtrack just gets me fucking amped.
TL;DR Smash 4 confirmed for best smash
>Not inventing the genre doesn't matter in this situation.
>SF2 is what defined the genre and that's what's important.
First of all, it does matter when it comes to genre definition. You don't get to arbitraliy decide what is and isn't important when it inconvinences your arugment.
Second you're just being pedantic, because defining and inventing are one and the same here. Fighitng games existed before SF2, which didn't redefine the genre to something completely different from SF1 or any other fighting game before it. It is not THE fighting game, and not all games need to adhere to the exact same structures and mechanics as the first one (which SF2 isn) in order to be considered part of the same genre.
Most genres are broad by their very nature, ones like "Adventure" and "RPG" cover a vast amount of games that are parts of all kinds of subgenres.
I didn't cite Wikipedia until you decided it was acceptable to use it as a source. You can't just blast your own source once its pointed out the same source doesn't match your argument. Saying your "real" source died isn't an excuse, you still need to provide one
>Sub genres aren't the same as the main genre though
Actually no, they are. Subgenres are the same as the main genre, if they weren't then they would be completely different genres, not subgenres. No one said Tekken and SF are exactly the same, it makes no sense to claim Tekken is not a fighting game because its not Street Fighter, adn that's exactly what you're trying to do. You're completely dishonest about you're own argument and what others are saying, you're just wasting my time.
>all of these tourneyfags taking the bait
Why would you place yourself in this shit show? You're either retarded enough to play a part in this rat race where absolutely nothing productive is accomplished, or you're smart enough to realize 99% of people you're arguing against have no idea what they are talking about. There is no reason to engage in public discourse whatsoever on /v/, and even over the internet. Explaining things to people solves nothing, all that really matters is action. Stop feeding into peoples stupidity, if someone says something stupid ok ignore them they're retarded. If they automatically assume they are right because of no response then congrats, you have no responsibility to babysit retards especially over the internet where half are likely not even genuine.
Fuck this entire thread.
Just because there were other similar games before SF2 it doesn't make it any less influential. SF2 is the fighting game no matter how you look at it.
If you want to go for broad genres then it still doesn't fit, because there's only one definition of a fighting game and that's SF2. All the other similar games that aren't quite like SF have their own genres, even if they're sub genres of fighting games they aren't THE fighting game that has been defined by SF2
No one said SF2 wasn't influential you dense fuck.
>there's only one definition of a fighting game and that's SF2
Still waiting on that source. Your own made up definition doesn't matter here
> Street Fighter is special to me. I think that series is the core of fighting games. It is the game that defined the genre
:the legendary fighting game that defined the fighting game genre
>vice opinion piece
>catalog site entry for SF2
Neither of these are are credible articles that state the definition of fighting games, and neither of them state that SF2 is the definition of a fighting game. Try posting an actual source and be little less illiterate.
>post a source
>i-it isn't a real source!
You got BTFO, now fuck off moron. There's no official definition for fighting game genre, just what is widely accepted and SF2 is widely accepted as the game which defined the genre.
The same way we had Doom likes or rogue likes, SF2 is on the same tier as those
I'm both a tourneyfag and a casualfag
I enjoy wrecking shit on Melee, but also play brawl with my bro who doesn't go full tourneyfag and have a good time with them on it.
>Mfw Smash 4 will let me enjoy the best of both worlds
>he thinks an opinion article and catalog entry, neither of which contain the definition of fighting games, is a valid source
>move the goalposts from what the definition to what is "widely accepted" and bases this off of two articles he misread
>even Wikipeida, which you cited to begin with proves you wrong
>run out of arguments so use "You got BTFO fuck off moron!" responses like underage faggot he is
You got BTFO by your own lack of reading comprehension, shithead. An article about Street Fighter that says "SF2 defined the genre" is not the same as "there's only one definition of a fighting game and that's SF2 and anyhting that isn't like SF2 isn't a fighting game" If you seriously can't understand the difference between the two then just fucking kill yourself because you're just a waste of space at this point.
If there's no official definitnion for the fighting game genre, then you have to accept that games like Virtua Fighter, Tekken and even Smash are widely considered fighting games. You can't pick and choose faggot. Also here's an article on several games including the ones I just listed defined the fighting game genre.
We can go back and forth posting shitty articles from Vice and ArcadeMuseum, or you can stop being a faggot and accept the fact that you don't have a textbook definitnion that excludes anything outside SF2 as a fighting game.
They aren't widely considered fighting games though, Vritua Fighter and Tekken are widely considered 3D fighting games which is completely different.
My whole argument this thread was that Smash should have its own genre like that too
They are widely considred fighting games. Especially going by articles like the one I just posted.
Your sources don't say Virtua Fighter and Tekken are not fighting games, or that 3D figthing games are completely differient from fighting games.
Smash is a crossover fighter just like marvel and PSASB. By Wikipedia's definition you can call it a mascot fighter if that makes you feel better.
Come up with some proof that the "fighting games" part of 3D fighters is a misnomer or fuck off.
That precisely why I like it though. If I play SF then almost everything I could do is 'wrong' in that it will likely lead to me getting punished, with no option to try to alter the outcome. Smash allows far more room to improvise and set up clutch situations in which I have the advantage and then capitalize on them, and learning how to to so is so much fun.
SF players frequently seem to hate everything that doesn't play like SF though. Everything about Smash is simply more enjoyable, satisfying and flat out fun to me in ways no other fighting game is. I just don't like the way arcade fighters work and feel like I'm fighting against the game's mechanics more then I am expressing myself by fighting against my opponent. I've been playing fighting games for years, and no matter how much I do I never find that I mesh with them or the way they work to the same degree.
>>Also I'm questioning if there is actually a living organism in this galaxy who legitimately enjoys playing as Pokemon Trainer for extended periods of time.
Seriously. The sad thing is that every Pokemon individually is enjoyable, but the whole forced switching, stamina, and type-weakness fucking KILLS it.
If it's similar to a faster 64 in physics, and has
Ridley and a BALANCED all-champs roughly viable roster, I'll be DAMN HAPPY.
I've waited a long time for this, Masturbator Soccer Eye. Don't let me down, buddy.
>When you were little and played Smash 64 for the first time, did you care about the competitive scene?
Obviously not, but I cared about gameplay and beating people over the continuous novelty of it being a crossover. Most people do, the novelty of it has worn off, Smash can't (and barely even ever did) ride on that novelty of "OH WOW SONIC AND MARIO IN THE SAME GAME" any more. You fags are missing the point of the game.
>Competitive players are entitled assholes who think that the entire Smash Bros franchise revolves around their little tournaments. It doesn't.
There's that tourneyfag boogeyman shit again. Keep it up /v/, just pretend you know all about them when really all you're hearing about them is fake greentext stories on /v/
>Literally no one outside of the autistic online competitive community thinks Melee is better than Brawl.
Actually I know plenty of casuals who like Project M and Melee over Brawl, and these people haven't attended a single tournament in their fucking life.
Why does /v/ keep using the epic meme of "Smash ain't a fighting game! Casual play is best play! Tourneyfags are game killing faggots!"
Even on a casual level, Brawl was much less fun than Melee.
>Smash BRos was created by literally one person
Yeah, okay. So if I take a shit and then say "HEY GUYS THIS ISNT ACTUALLY SHIT THIS IS ACTUALLY CHOCOLATE" isn't actually chocolate? If Kanye West repeatedly said that his music wasn't rap/hip-hop would that actually make it not rap/hip-hop?
There's a sub-genre of fighting games called "Platformer fighters", this is definetly where Smash would fall into
Let me just point something out to everyone here. Something everyone SHOULD be able to agree on.
Smash IS a
Smash IS also
And that's it, assholes. Smash is a
casual fighting game.No need to deny it. It's marketed at casuals, it doesn't even have memorisable combos which are a hallmark of other fightan titles. Doesn't mean it can't be played at a higher level, hell people even have scissors paper rock tournaments or darts tournaments in this day and age. It has a high skill ceiling. But it's still what I said above.
Tourneyfags should be able to agree with this, as well as everyone saying it's not a fighter [although it does have a platforming element]
And I do mean memorisable combos as in A+B+U+D+D+R, etc., not chained-move combos. Smash does have them to an extent, but generally only as far as spike+down B, the rest is learning to position yourself.
I was halfway saying that usually when people play them they can only stomach ONE of the pokemon, whichever one is up to preference, but I've never seen someone actually like using all 3. Or even just ONE of them for that matter, Lucario is also barely any fun to play and Brawl's physics don't help.
>So, Smash 4 looks like it's shaping up to be Brawl 2.0
I know this is bait but come on. The demo just released and it looks great. We don't need melee 2.0 for it to be good. It seems like they actualy care about it being competitive they took out chain grabs and ledge guards. Now people have to think up new tactics.
Hell, I've found that Jump Ultimate Stars is more fun recently than Brawl. Assuming you know all the characters in Brawl, or played most of the games, you'd eventually start reaching the point where matches start to have lots of turtling the less players there are.
Why, when discussing the competitive values of smash, we exclusively talk about project M and not the obviously superior Brawl-?
No really, playing them all (brawl, melee, project M and Brawl-), it's obvious the only enjoyable one is minus. Are you all just ignorant to the true path?
>So, Smash 4 looks like it's shaping up to be Brawl 2.0
False, i watched a high level play stream for about 2 hours yesterday, the only thing that was close to brawl was landing lag, everything else was closer to melee.
>ground game is much faster
>pivit smash op
>all characters now have combos
>speed of almost all smash attacks have gone up
Stop projecting you fat piece of shit
What you say isn't even true. "Brawl 2.0" doesn't fucking mean anything.
It's faster than Brawl like you fucks wanted
Landing lag is cut like you fucks wanted
For Fun/For Glory modes just to cater to you and heavily advertised as a tournament fighting game by Nintendo as we've seen lately, like you fucks wanted
No one wants fucking "intentional bugs". Only you dumbasses want to dash around with your dumb ass glitches because of "m-muh mindgames" instead of just playing it how it was meant to be played.
Go pick up Street Fighter for your "advanced techs".
>No one wants fucking "intentional bugs". Only you dumbasses want to dash around with your dumb ass glitches because of "m-muh mindgames" instead of just playing it how it was meant to be played.
So you responded to ignorance / bait, with even more ignorance / possible bait. Good job.
How do people still deny that the Smash Bros fanbase is one of the worst besides MOBAs?
But the funny thing is most high level players are going to switch over. Especaly M2K he said he is going to be either the best in the world or top 5 in it and i believe him. Him and Armada and to a lesser extent Hbox and Mango all play Project M/Brawl. I don't know where people get this "Only melee" attitude" Sure the top players like melee the best but only because they have been playing for 10+ years and they know it inside and out(Mostly).
Shut up faggot, a lot of people in the competitive community are very excited about Smash 4. Stop shit posting and making them look like assholes.
Also, the game looks tons better than the E3 build.
Anybody who calls Smash 4 Brawl 2.0 are butthurt Project M fags that are mad Smash 4 is actually shaping up to be good
Seriously, who else is gonna be ignorant and want Smash 4 to fail? The guys who want their shitty not even better than Melee mod to get credit if Smash 4 fails
No-one can be this retarded, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're trolling.
But since you got me replying, I might as well point out something for you; Smash was never meant to be competitive. Nintendo always puts fun first, and makes sure the game is accessible for everyone, before they start working on any competitive elements. Melee wasn't a new direction for the game, it was just a test to see what works and what doesn't - they always change around a few things. And clearly they never meant for it to be so buggy, since both Brawl and 4 aren't.
You're looking at the wrong IP if you want a super competitive fighter. There are already a lot of those on the market. Smash isn't one of them.
The OP here and a lot of posts in the thread seem like bait. Most people that play project m are excited as fuck for the game, since a lot of them migrated from brawl in the first place. This is like lumping in everyone that enjoyed brawl a lot saying they hate melee.
"Being a part of FGC" implies it's consensual and agreed upon, which is strictly untrue. "Is Smash a fighting game?" STILL stirs up some heated discussion in FGC, so to say that it is as of now is false.
>/v/ has never known jack shit about fighting games
>now all of a sudden they're the experts
Thanks for the laugh.
the game looks fine fag. You are just one of those people who watched that one documentary and assume you know what you are talking about. I have the demo and its much much better than brawl so before you talk shit maybe play the game.
ok, I don't consider Smash to be not a fighting game, but I must disagree with you there. Smash and traditional fighters do not have the same core fundamentals, no. I know a lot of people who have just grown up playing smash all their lives, and they can't wrap their heads around traditional fighting games' fundamentals for their lives. Smash and traditional fighting games are just so different.
>tfw Smash 4 is exactly what Sakurai said it would be
>A mix of Melee and Brawl with it's own mechanics to be it's own game rather than Melee 2.0 or Brawl 2.0
>Edge hogging and any exploits have been destroyed with the new Edge grabbing mechanics and in turn buffs recoveries to actually be useful
>Hitstun is back
>Link actually got good
>Mario is his own great character
Makes you wonder how Doc will fare when Mario is actually good this time