>undead are inherently evil
>animating the dead/creating undead is inherently evil
Daily reminder that there's literally nothing wrong with necromancy.
Don't believe paladin propaganda.
it depends on how its done
if making undead requires you to torture and bind someone's innocent soul or actively spread the metaphysical representation of evil by existing then yeh, they're evil
>Making a "Bone" golem or a "Flesh" golem is usually seen as being no different from creating a "Rock" or an "Iron" golem, ethically speaking.
>But create an animated skeleton or a zombie and suddenly you're the Antichrist.
Guild Wars 1 did it right. The god of necromancy was the god of justice.
How can you say it's evil to murder a pregnant women and slice out her heart for a ritual to become a lich and attain unlimited cosmic power, if I use that unlimited cosmic power to save the world?
Necromancy should only be considered evil if you're binding souls in order to reanimate the dead without their consent. Simply animating corpses isn't evil, though of course if you don't want to be an asshole or break any laws, you should probably get the consent of that body's owner or guardian.
However in D&D's shitty default game world and in forgotten realms, evil and good are actual forces rather than nebulous moral concepts. Pretty fucking stupid, but there you have it.
because becoming a lich requires an evil act so it can't be done with good intentions
also liches have no human emotions so even if you became one, you'd stop giving a crap about the world
>Necromancy should only be considered evil if you're binding souls
without lawful authority. May the sinners serve in death as they never would in life!
I like TES take on it. Necromancers are often not trusted because it's a bit morbid to have your dead grandfather stumbling about, but there's nothing inherently evil about animating the bones of the dead.
But we're all skeleton posters. Even the landwhales.
GW1 used to be that. Necromancers were canonically lawful and completely overpowered in gameplay for many years.
>becoming a lich requires an evil act so it can't be done with good intentions
This doesn't really make any sense. You can do "evil" acts and justify it via "the greater good", thereby making it with the best of intentions. It may not be acceptable in everone's books, but it is with good intentions.
I DON'T FUCKING BELIEVE YOU, NIGGER
Being a lich is evil without question
>N-no, it's okay I'm totally a good guy. I ate those seven baby souls so I could feel the homeless forever!
Normal necromancy is just fine though, in most cases.
> or guardian.
Pretty sure there's not many places where you can go "I give you permission to re-animate my dead sons corpse"
So? It's for the greater good, anon. Killing people is evil, but we still do it to people who mean us harm. Think of all the good you could do if you were a lich.
Get the fuck outta here with your twisted logic, paladin scum.
I stopped caring when I learned that Paladins/Clerics don't actually get granted power from their gods. But actually shape the world around them because they believe hard enough
Shit is fucking dumb
>fuck the world i am a lich and i will just float in space.
Living privilege is not being marked as inherently evil.
It's cool guy, they were evil babies.
you have to willingly do an evil act otherwise it doesn't work
a lich is powered by evil so as long as a lich exists evil is winning
just bind your soul into a golem if you really want to live forever
D&D skellies don't require souls. They're just animated bones, the previous inhabitant's soul is in the afterlife.
Consider that people donate their body to science when they die, because they realize that they won't have any use for it after they're gone. Same thing here. Bones are just bones.
however in D&D animating a skeleton requires you to use evil magic from the plane of evil and using them causes team evil to win
sorry but that's how it works, you want non-evil skellies, use bone golems
Spirit Detective tier:
Speaking with earthbound spirits, helping them out and forming contracts where they will animate bodies for you.
It's just bones magic'd to life. No souls involvement.
Having families in which warriors willingly sign themselves over as immortal guardians whose souls you can call on to animate the dead.
Wretching souls from the afterlife into bodies and making them serve you
Evil and not really even Neromancy tier:
Binding the spirits of demons or 'outsiders' into bodies.
Get your shit together Anons.
There's nothing quite like a nice warm bath of fresh zombie vomit.
>you have to willingly do an evil act otherwise it doesn't work
Sure, and that's fine. After I've done that willingly, the power is now mine to do as I wish with.
>a lich is powered by evil so as long as a lich exists evil is winning
Who cares? There will always be evil in the world, but at least I'll do my part to even things out.
>just bind your soul into a golem if you really want to live forever
That's no fun... Fucking paladins.
Let us not play oppression olympics here. This is about the intersection struggle against human supremacy.
As an elf, I am hurt, marginalized and a victim of the violence of elf rape culture, you wouldn't beleive how many times I see "elves are for raping." This is NOT ok.
I want to play a skeleton cleric that turns humans.
How dare you?
>want to do awesome campaigns like that
>mfw i don't have friends
Man, get the fuck out of here before you get boned.
>Implying elves don't enjoy getting raped
We're not stupid, we just aren't muscle bound meat-heads bullying everyone around or stupid magic users. Heck, some settings mark us as the king of technology!
Hey, at least you're indentified as a living, breathing thing! They just see me and shrug me off "Eh, it's just a low level enemy not even worth my time"
top kek, that explains it
Nope, they're just bones following your orders. But fuck it, you're using a retarded edition, so of course your skeletons will be retarded too.
>mfw Animating the dead in DA:O was ok and was on a whole different class of magic that is practiced.
>mfw in DA:2 it suddenly became BLUD MAGIK and it's evil
>Eh, it's just a low level enemy not even worth my time
Au Contraire, an evil walking pile of bones, no matter how fragile and harmless is always worthy of a true paladin's attention
>Nope, they're just bones following your orders.
they're neutral evil
>But fuck it, you're using a retarded edition, so of course your skeletons will be retarded too.
raising the dead has been evil by RAW since 1e
whenever I see a goblin I'll take out my trust old cork mallet and smite them
if they're half dead I'll just lay on hands and tell them I'm proud of their non evil ways, if they explode I'm happy to have killed yet another evil goblin
Paladins are really lawful evil, when you think about it. They use their code of laws to go around and murder entire species deigned "evil" just because it said so in a book or some dude told them.
nah we trust our own instinct, that's why we have detect evil
if somethings pings we can smite, we're playing for team good here
only issue with goblins is that they sometimes don't ping hard enough on the detect evil so you gotta preemptively smite them to be absolutely sure
There are multiple of them, and they all have different laws. It's ridiculous. Paladins are just legally-sanctioned murderhobos. It's time skeletons stood up to their bullshit and laid down the smackdown on the establishment.
Well, it's unnatural so it's portrayed as "bad". It also usually revives just the body (or revives one with some "broken" aspect as he's been ot the other side) so it, too, seems vile and egocentric and scary.
Be a Cleric, Clerics (especially some kind of Battle Clerics) are underrated.
And who taught you that spell, huh? Your god? Who knows what it really is, perhaps just "detect non-faithful to my chosen god" or "detect tribal".
You're just being a naive instrument of mass murder, you psychopath.
Was about to post that first actually.
I agree, I would love an rpg type game in which you start off as a lowly gravedigger/robber using corpses to practice low tier necromancy until you eventually build up to full lichdom in a giant castle.
everyone complains about the paladins until they're stuck at the bottom of a drow torture dungeon with their limbs hacked off, lying in a puddle of their own excrement and kept alive, in constant agony, with healing magic.
then it's always "wah, where are the paladins, why isn't anyone killing all these drow".
druid here, don't care if its good or evil, its dead and it aint decomposing so we gotta fix that
you're denying some helpless fungus his meal and by god we'll rectify that situation
I want to play this endlessly. Like Crusader Kings + that never ending game tweak you can do. Is that possible?
I just want to be an archlich and be a necromancer piece of shit without that pesky vying for the god throne or whatever.
...unless you're on the privileged list of the so-called "non-evil" races, paladins won't lift a finger for you. In fact, they're likely to attack you on sight, even if you were indeed enslaved and tortured by drow.
You're going to turn into a skeleton one day
Yes, good goy-I mean paladin, exactly like your masters taught you
This entire species is BORN evil, it's only NATURAL that we should murder them all and steal all their valuables!
It's not hard to be on that list, you know. Just don't have an overwhelming desire to rape and murder people woven into your entire race's being, and especially don't try to drag innocent people into this.
Evil races always have a reason for being evil.
I'll say thank you for starting a rejuvenating fire, the forest was getting a bit crowded and the ashes will cause a whole cycle of renewal
however lets see how you like it when my magic immune bacteria start turning your skeletons into fertilizer
A defender of the One True Faith.
You can't choose what race you're born anon. I thought they taught you this in kindergarten, but I suppose paladins are raised with different values in mind...
But nevermind, just keep on murdering and pillaging, and claim it's "all for the greater good".
Imagine treading through a tower filled with undead and other monsters. An ambush has left you nearly dead. A powerful zombie veers around a corner and immediately notices you. Right as it is about to finish you off, it is blasted by a spectacular array of colors and is torn apart while being sucked into some kind of rift.
Then a handful of skeletons descend around you in a ray of sunlight, you notice that your wounds have disappeared. A voice from behind you says "It is time to go now". You turn around and get the briefest glimpse of a lich encircled by sunlight, before you find yourself laying outside on the path you came by, unsure whether or not you are still alive.
if you have a choice you could have chosen not to be evil, if you don't then the only merciful thing is to remove you from this world with as little pain as possible
either way it doesn't matter
>not playing Skyrim as a skeleton and raising more skeleton buddies as you go along
I wonder how many the engine would support before crashing
Oh boy, the fun police has arrived
Well, if their race biologically requires them to be wearing a human's baby as a cloak in order to reproduce, they're still evil as all hell to everyone with half a brain. "It's muh culture" can only work so long as you aren't a blight upon this earth.
You can if you're actually one of those mythical "Players". The true godkings of the universe, second only to the Dungeon Master as written in the Good Book by the Prophet Gygax himself.
Why are you feeling safe when you're fighting mind flayers? That's the easiest way for them to daze you long enough to either turn you into an incredibly tasteless bowl or into their child's favorite toy.
Very few races are like that, and definitely not skeletons. In case your neanderthal brain didn't pick this up when you were 12 years old, not every individual within a race are the same. Just like you're a retard, and I'm not, even though we're both human, there can be non-evil goblins, kobolds and skeletons for example. Fucking gestapo-paladins...
>no game where you nurture the undead back to life and, because every afterlife theory is a lie, they're eternally grateful and serve you
Okay man, let's just hope the government doesn't decide that you should be shipped off to the concentration camps next, aye? :^) I mean, would be a shame if we found out that you were just "inherently evil" all of a sudden.
>definitely not skeletons
>brainless tools that go berserk if not under complete control of the horrible man who made them
>not every individual within a race are the same
Listen, son. I know you haven't heard of "cultures" or "genetic dispositions", but you'll have to learn it someday. When you're born into a world that ceaselessly drills an action into you, whether because of tradition or biological need, you begin to not care about it.
Sure, those goblins may feel fine castrating their captives to emasculate them, and forcing prisoners to eat one another for sport. However, that shit doesn't fly with the majority of civilized people. If they react to an attempt at cultural change violently, it is the paladin's job to crush them and allow those who repent to change.
>he's not going to play as a bardnecromancer
This is all bones jones
i couldn't really make the face look like a skellington but the dark mask makes up for it
going to use all sorts of bone weapons and shit
gonna invade in the undead crypt and spook the shit outta some fleshies
No man, they'd just remove you for being similar to someone else doing something like that. I mean, if one green-eyed person did something bad once, I bet all green-eyed people would do the same. FLAWLESS LOGIC!
Thus far, I haven't seen any tribes that actually WANT to keep themselves from castrating prisoners and forcing them to kill their loved ones.
I've had much better chances with FLUMPHS, for Pelor's sake. Hell, a group of them even helped me obliterate the Bone-Gnasher goblin tribe!
That's just the paladin propaganda machine at work
Dragon Commander had a delicious trap skeleton bartender.
>Not being a sick as skeleton necromancer
>Not raising an army of skeletons that you take apart bone by bone to build a giant bone mecha
>not climbing in the ribcage of the giant skeleton and using puppetry magics to pilot it
>Not burning people releasing their skeleton from the flesh to add to the exo-skeleton making it bigger with every kill
yeah, those gondorians were such bigots. they should really have invited the orcs into minas tirith instead of making racist assumptions. it could have been an enlightening experience for everyone.
>it could have been an enlightening experience for everyone.
Bioware did it first, they were just following the trend, otherwise you get shit-eaters like the fags who hate Numenera because it's turn-based rather than RTWP like Torment was. As if Torment's gameplay was something to write about.
No, you'd endorse violently caving their skulls in with a warhammer and steal all their belongings in the name of the church. THAT'S how you paladins are like.
And by the way, where are you getting these statistics? Have you ever asked a goblin? Have you considered the fact that going on a racially motivated genocide might make them sorta hostile to you, y'know, in self-defense?
>I haven't seen any tribes
Because you've attacked them on sight. Don't lie.
>Trapping the souls of people in corpses that might not even be their own
I guess it could be seen the same way as organ/body donation. Nobody likes to think of their recently lost loved ones being cut up but if they know it's what they would have wanted, they'd probably accept.
It's not like they're going to have the course walking around rotting in rags like a regular zombie. They could cover them up with a mask and the like.
goblins started the genocide and I've never killed a single good goblin in my life
course I've also never met one but as soon as a I find one of them I'll give him enough gold to open a small business
we've also tried diplomacy but they roasted our last diplomat over his peace treaties
Every situation where you could possibly want to revive someone for a good reason is Cleric territory. Necromancers are edgy kids who try to hide behind good morality, when they could just be Clerics, and do the same shit even better
Imagine a nation founded on the principles of Necromancy. Children would learn from their parents their own families way of raising the dead or manipulating forces of death and life.
Great minds would be liches, who have chosen their frail forms to better teach the generation to come, or needed more time to finish their research. When someone died, they'd be 'drafted' into the nation's armed forces to protect and serve.
Could be neat.
actually its the Goblins who are getting BTFO, that's why they're complain about paladins, because we're effective at removing them
85% of the world already in the hands of good races, Team Good: we're winning hard
Is that what you told yourself when you party stormed in on Gogs Birthday party? It took me 3 days to find the perfect gift for him, A perfect thigh bone full of tasty marrow, you thrust it down his throat and killed him with it. At least the little Goblin children had a quick death from your warhammer, but the pregnant goblin mommys. That was unforgivable, I hope that alchemist was happy with those placentas, monster.
in everquest lore, the undead were created when the prime healer, the peacock goddess anathi'sul healed the fuck out of the dead
Worth the time just for that? Thinking of just putting RTS part on easy or someshit but dunno. As said not played it but gameplay vids implied it's the worst RTS to grace this Earth since.. I don't evne know
>No one is afraid to die
>everyone is happier
gore goes on /b/ you fuck
ah you mean Gogard the conqueror, raper of thousands
and were you the goblin who killed the good king's favorite son just for his thigh bone? Because I'm coming for you little bastard
Guild Wars 1's Necromancers are just as likely to use their abilities to help grant peace to the recently deceased and their families as they are to raise an army of flesh golems when on the warpath. Their undead are mindless and those with any actual intelligence are only evil because they're forced that way by their masters.
Even then, it's a respected field as everyone understands how the afterlife operates. Just don't be the sort to trap a person's soul or desecrate random graveyards.
Why are lich always skeletons themselves and necromancers are big tit women?
>It's bad when a dragon dose it but okay for you
>necropimp magic will never be a thing because people are too scared of phantom/zombie/skeletal hookers and gigolos
When will they learn?
>That's fine, I'll just become a lich and wait till you die of old age :^)
well, in D&D, the souls of paladins would just go to mount celestia, a paradise of law and good, where through good deeds you can ascend and becoming a powerful, immortal angel.
I like necromancy is Dragon's Crown. Look at that happy skeleton. You can really tell he didn't mind being raised. Everybody wins.
>Not being a Rogue
>Not NTR stupid Warriors
>Not fucking the lonely maidens of Paladins meanwhile the retards try to purge the world from skeletons
Pfft, take your shoddy chinese knock-offs and stuff them up your ass. I'm talking REAL skeletons bud
One thing that kinda annoys me is how most fiction has to keep this kind of taboo. Every time somebody brings somebody he loved back to life something has to go terribly wrong just to show that it's a bad idea.
I mean, it's just circular logic: they make things go wrong and then they say "See? If you do this things go wrong. Don't wish for your loved ones to be alive, kids.". It's patronizing, as if every person is a retard that has to be constantly told that in the real world you have to accept death as something final. Thank you writers, we fucking get it. How about an hypothetical scenario that doesn't assume that everything should stay the way it is just so that retards don't get confused?
If it was that easy, everyone would do it. Fact is, this "mount celestia" is just a fiction used to manipulate the gullible into doing their master's bidding. Enjoy your propaganda.
>not 100% evil
This thing is an abomination to skeletal kind.
>Necromancers control skeletons and make them do whatever they want
>You control the skeleton that's inside of your body to do what you want
>You've been a necromancer your entire life
I don't think so. She was a witch bitch, but she was pregnant. To kill her would help cleanse the world of evil, but to kill her would kill the innocent in her womb, one who has done nothing wrong. Shit seems pretty fucked up if you ask me, and I'm all for it.
If manipulation doesn't into sex doesn't count as rape, then I guess you're right
I really do not feel like i was raped, the only violation that occurred is me being embarrassed about having sex with a 4/10 there's no point arguing whether i was or was not
Fuck you faggot, I'm going to be a barbarian
Yeeah yeah, I've heard it all before, pal. "totally better and more awesome than the original", yadda yadda yadda. Fact of the matter is that it's what the market wants that matters, and the market wants REAL skeletons, not some cheap wannabe-skeleton.
Enjoy your no-skeletons... alone, without any skeletons to keep you company
>You are your brain
>You're brain is imprisoned inside a skull
>Implying you're in control
You have been lulled into a false sense of security, when you least suspect it that skeleton inside you will fight back.
Honestly, it's probably for the best, and makes the most sense. No more hygiene, beyond bone polishing once in a great while. Leaves more time for research and learning. Making necromancy an inherently evil thing that just happens to put out spooky boogeyman evil rays is such a fucking copout.
>How about an hypothetical scenario that doesn't assume that everything should stay the way it is just so that retards don't get confused?
So much this. I think it's because the authors generally want to convey some stupid message from the real world, instead of just creating awesome, logically consistent worlds and just have fun with them.
>YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT SHE'S DEAD JOHNNY! YOU HAVE TO! HURRR
It's the same with early science fiction.
ah right the market, I may have accidentally leaked the contact info of various skeleton manufacturers to the local paladins
you'll see people are quick to switch to bone golems when the alternative is no skeleton at all
All we Goblins want is to live in peace, and maybe rape a little on the side! But that makes us "Evil". Oh! But when Humans do it its fine! Just like the Kings Bastard son aren't I right "Noble" Paladin?
Why do people always think that skeletons are evil or some kind of harmful creatures? Just give them a chance and you will find out that they are just misunderstood, and enjoy talking.
Too bad in DnD using necromancy automatically makes you evil and any desire to help people with your powers disappear
I guess enslaving the soul of some dude who should be in heaven chilling out is a dick move, but if they are mindless bones then it is all good.
That said there are hardly any video games that do necromancy right. You may be able to summon one skeleton but never enough to hinge your character on them. Diablo 2 did it pretty well as you would have around dozen but you were never broken.
>down a capture target, he's on the floor over there trying to barter for his life, fucking space jews never learn
>under fire from the corrupted, call on zombros
>somehow resurrect the capture target when he wasn't actually dead
>have to capture one of my zombies
Being posthuman is hard sometimes.
>Too bad in DnD using necromancy automatically makes you evil and any desire to help people with your powers disappear
it doesn't, most necromancy spells are fine. it's just spells that create undead that are evil, because you are creating evil beings.
Man, i can't wait untill i shed these awful skin and organs so i can finally be free. being a skeleton is ultimate freedom
Fuck despite the GoG version being "DRM Free" pirating the game doesn't let you play online without a serial key.
I guess I will have to give Bioware $20 in the end.
>gets resurrected by an incompetent necromancer, kills said necromancer and continues fighting the undead as the undead
>has to hide from fellow paladins, but continues his service to the Light
Devotion from beyond the grave deserves some special place in Heaven.
That's what you think. My son read a book where it worked out. He raised my deceased wife from the dead, and the last I heard of either of them is that they're trying to destory the world with an ancient crystal. I didn't even get to fuck her.
THERE IS NOT A SKELETON INSIDE YOU
You are the one within a skeleton. Think about it, the essence of your being, organs such as the brain and the heart, exist within a boney prison.
Not very likely, since most undead (vampires and immensely powerful other undead notwithstanding) are made nonsentient. They've still got a soul in them, but it's more "eternal sleep paralysis" than "forced servitude"
I am the good guy!
I AM THE GOOD GUY! THOSE ORCS DESERVED TO DIE!
>pirating the game doesn't let you play online without a serial key.
Buying the game doesn't let you play online either: authentication servers are dead.
literally every game. all living creatures have skeletons you know
Space Paladin = best paladin.
OH GOD IT IS SO COLD
I'M SO SORRY, SISTER
Throw in a law / cultural taboo of forcing an undead to do your bidding against their will and it'd be golden.
As in, the nation thinks it's a bad thing to force an undead to exist or do things against it's will.
If a fucker wants to move on, you let that poor bastard die.
Raising a guy temporarily if you need info is fine, but let him go back to rest afterwards.
Compiled some games with quality skellington gameplay
Best application of undeath I have seen in a game so far.Undead use fuckhuge skellington hordes to soak up damage while summoning undead horrors from hades and having liches do the damage.Also a dedication anti-fun faction whose entire gameplay revolves around ruining absolutely everything on the map to anyone but yourself.Only downside is shite graphics.
Heroes III's necropolis is obviously best, but the others aren't bad.
>Mount and Blade Warband with the Wasword conquest mod
Allows you to play Warhammer Fantasy factions, one of which is the tomb kings which are egyptian skeleton emperors.Buggy as fuck at the time being.
Actually has a very good selection of mods that add necromancy to the game, best one so far let you turn into a lich after a long quest line which had you craft your own phylactery.
It got micromangey after I took over a quarter of the largest map
>not space warrior
Oberon would like a word with you
>On June 22, 2014, Atari announced a new corporate strategy that would include a focus on "new audiences," specifically "LGBT, social casinos, real-money gambling, and YouTube."
Anyways is it possible to connect to the Torment server through the game's terminal? Or bypass the Bioware login somehow to look at the server browser?
Try the Rage of the Dark Gods mod for Medieval 2. It lets you play as a bunch of sexy vampire dudes who can raise the dead wherever they want as long as there are enough corpses. You can even have catapults that shoot skulls.
Don't be silly anon, that's what the NWN2 Client Extension Console is for. Auth server basically is useless.
Also, direct connect works and http://www.nwnlist.com/ has all current servers
Wat kind of loosy goosy fuk whit this making a flesh golem is ethically ok??? Wat?
No one that's who no one ever thinks that
Unless their a vile be romanced that is...
Wait a minute. A-are you...
There's a dude in D3 RoS that's a necromancer and raises the dead to cleanse them so their spirit may move on or some BS. That's literally the only "good" necro i can think of
there is (was?) a nation in 3.5 Eberron which pretty much does that
their ruling council is composed of great reanimated leaders
though, they do use some weird form of necromancy that somehow draws from the plane of positive energy
>tiny arms, cannot carry the team
>so middle of the road he presents a hazard to all other traffic