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Which video game has your favorite spell/magic...
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Which video game has your favorite spell/magic lists and relations and other mechanics?

What would you change about it?
>>
>>259840804
>Water and Ice are separate elements
dropped
>>
>>259840804
>water and ice are separate elements
>>
>>259840804
>actually has light and dark as elements

I rike it.
>>
I always liked how it worked in GBA Fire Emblem.

Fire, Ice, Thunder, Wind etc. kinds of magic were all considered nature magic(Or anima if you will). There was also the light and dark schools of magic.

Light beat dark
Dark beat anima
Anima beat light

Newer Fire Emblem games cannot into magic properly.
>>
>>259842602
Ice as an element is actually Cold, not actual Ice.
But "Cold" element would sound strange.
>>
>>259840804
Magicka

Its literally the entire foundation of the game
>>
Eternal Darkness: Sanitys Requim had a super cool magic system
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>>259840804
>Wind is green
>Earth isnt green
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>>259843090
Call it "Entropy"
>>
>>259843346
>Earth isn't brown
>>
>>259843346
Buddhism.
>>
>>259840804
I enjoyed FFXI's magic system too. Music is the best magic.
>>
eternal darkness
>>
Water and Ice being seperate elements is a good thing, else you get water being dominated by ice spells like water never killed anybody.

Customary "fuck you and your giant Mr. Frosty machine being more powerful than the God of the Sea, Golden Sun".
>>
>>259840804

What game is that element chart from? Looks super familiar.
>>
>>259843357
That's conceptually incorrect.
>>
>>259840804
Magicka's my favorite. I really wish more games in general would explore mixing elements in spells.
Are there any other games that do it really well besides Magicka?
>>
>>259843725
but it was also a train
>>
Golden Sun had it right

>Earth/Bio
>Water/Ice
>Fire
>Wind/Lightning

With Earth/Fire and Wind/Water having some sort of affinity

Maybe a light/dark can be worked in this somehow but I feel it's not needed
>>
>>259843725
>Water never killed anybody
Every victim who died in a sunken ship would like a word with you
>>
I really enjoyed Saga Frontier

Spells themselves were kind of limited within the schools but the skills and combos were awesome. GOAT feeling was when you go to do a basic attack and then that light bulb pops up over your chars head and he/she learns a new ability which they use that turn
>>
>>259840804
>elements
How boring and generic.
>>
>>259844530
but the problem is that you figure out early on that the best element is regular attacks
>>
>>259840804
I never understand element relations like these.

Why does Ice counter Wind? The cold has no effect on wind. Heat does, and it has to be on a global scale.

Why does Wind counter Earth? It takes wind millions of years to erode earth. With this logic Water should also counter earth, and do it better.

Why does Lightning counter Water? Water than has any type of mineral in it actually CONDUCTS a current away from itself and towards other objects. It does the same thing that earth does.

Why are Darkness and Light always off on their own somewhere? Light is a for of radiation/heat, it's the same thing as Fire. Darkness is the absence of radiance/radiation, and is the same as cold/ice.
>>
>Earth is yellow, wind is green, lightning is purple

Unsubscribed.
>>
>>259844617
Thats what he is saying dipshit, that water is dangerous.
>>
>>259844702
magic being uneffective in the game is an entire different matter
>>
>>259844963
>lightning is yellow
>earth is green
>wind is blue
>>
>>259844862
>all of these questions
Because RPG designers are autists obsessed with symmetry and perfectly balanced systems.
>>
>>259843090
Why couldn't Ice just be part of Water Magic but the catch is that it deals partial physical damage while water is full elemental?
>>
I've always had an idea for shit like this
>Main elements
Fire-Water(does not include ice)-Earth(Does not include plants)-Wind
>Derived/sub elements
Light-Dark-Cold-Heat

It doesn't work in a rock paper scissors way, like Fire itself can't defeat earth or wind if it's a strong enough fire(or hell, wind could even make it stronger), and obviously not water, and you can combine subs and mains to get other elements, like Ice would be Water+Cold, Plant would be like Water+Light+Heat etc.
The only game the came close to this was Magicka. Some in OP make no sense anyway.
Why would Ice defeat wind? And why would fire Win over Ice? Yeah it melts it, but then it becomes water. I'm thinking too much about this.
>>
>>259844862
>Why are Darkness and Light always off on their own somewhere?
Because it's figurative Light and Darkness, not literal. It's more along the lines of good/holy and bad/evil
>>
In games where Time is an element, what counters it?
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>>259845140


Resubscribed.
>>
>>259845361
Time
that feel when no good jojo rpg
>>
>>259845361
Why would it have to have a counter? It would make sense that it counters itself because using it would cause it's own set of problems.
>>
>>259843090
So "Cold" beats wind?
Ice beating wind is just as retarded though.
>>
>>259845361
Baten kaitos
wind iirc
>>
>>259845459
except all of that is wrong
>>
Pokemon because they at least pretend to give reasons why things do what they do.

These elemental systems are always a tip off the game is going to be bullshit retard easy with no actual reason to choose one element or another for it's own sake.

"Hurr durr the ice dungeon, better bring my fire guys/weapons/spells!" and it all degenerates down to that. The entire "Depth" of the combat system is essentially boiled down to one fucking conclusion. "It's blue, so use red!" over and fucking over.
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>>259845140
Lightning is blue/purple/white. It's only ever Yellow if it's miles away due to the way the atmosphere bends light.
>>
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Which Final Fantasy had the best magic/job/equipment mechanics?

And why is it 9?
>>
I'm sort of a sucker for D&D there. Sonic, positive, negative, divine (and divine being separate from positive/negative), pure magic, acidic. That's the kind of stuff I'd like to see more elsewhere.
>>
>>259845831
yea i know that, i was more or less saying the shit i hate, in reply to the guy bitching about it being done correctly
>>
>>259845974
None of them.
Final Fantasy never had good mechanics.
>>
Guild Wars because there isn't an X damage beats Y defense, it's just straight up damage and you can make your armor stronger against certain types of damage, whether it be physical or elemental. Then, there are damage types that ignore armor such as Holy, Dark, and Chaos, and or less explicitly is damage that depletes health over time,

GW had very diverse spells and abilities, too.
>>
>>259846194
not compared to other games, just this series in particular
it has a very good amount of variety
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>>259840804
I like it where the element doesn't matter, and instead each school of magic is based on the source from which it springs.

I devised my own magic system in which magic is derived from various balances of three different sources:

Passion, which is Red and derives from the emotion that goes into the magic
Nature, which is Green and derives from how true to established harmony and patterns the magic is in use
Thought, which is Blue and is derived from the complexity of the magic's purpose

In between each are

Eagerness, which is Yellow and derives from the frequency of the magic's usage, making it opposite to Thought
Calm, which is Teal and derives from the passive, inobtrusive use of the magic, opposed to Passion
Nobility, which is Violet and derives from the tested and acclaimed mettle of the magic's application, making it opposed to Nature

And inbetween each of the above you have Energetic (Orange), Charitable (Lime), Pax (Jade), Creative (Sky), Profound (Indigo) and Romantic (Crimson) magic.

And of course, there are the opposed principles of Idealistic, Sacrificial, Cooperative magic - White - versus Acquisitive, Sufficient, Impulsive magic - Black.

So anyone can learn to cast a fireball. But if your fireball is derived from a low, furious impulse, it will burn a dark red flame. If you cast an illumination spell, motivated by nothing other than sheer kindness, the light will be a gentle lime green. If you cast a sheet of ice over a passage in an effort to solve a problem and contribute to a greater situation, it will be a pale sky blue. And if you aim to conceal yourself in darkness out of pent up, tired frustration with a situation, the fog will be a dull orange.

The colours of magic, ladies and gentlemen.
>>
>>259845361
Time is the ultimate true neutral element. It doesn't serve any grand purpose, it simply exists, a defining force that both leads and causes everything transition in reality from one frame to the next.

The closest you'll ever get to an opposite of time is Space, as in the malleability of the present moment and all the various arrangements and transformations that can be applied to the here and now. The pair are essentially the metaphysical Freedom and Order, the metaphysical Liquid and Solid.
>>
>>259848048
I like it. Now make a game please. I will play.
>>
>>259848048
small mistake, that would a bold orange, not a dull. Got my wires crossed.
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>>259848671
Thank you, but I'm starting with board games first. I'll get into video once Outbreak becomes a thing.
>>
I have a huge soft-spot for Grandia, I still prefer the original system over what they did with the sequels.
>>
>>259848048
Make diagram pls
>>
>>259848868
I'm getting into board game design myself (system engineer, out of work, and bored, think it could be fun). Want me to throw you some mathematical systems I've been working on?
>>
>>259840804
>>259843568
FFXI was the best at this.
>days of the week affected elemental damage
>even the cardinal directions affected it (and crafting)
deepest lore
>>
>>259849719
you do know that was a myth, right?
>>
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>>259850135
The directions, yes. The days of the week having an effect on elemental damage, no.

Also best job coming through.
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>>259850423
overpowered as hell
>>
>>259848048
I enjoy systems based on humanity like this, rather than the much more common, generic, and uninspired systems based on arbitrary "elements" and basic one-dimensional strength-weakness relations.
>>
>>259850135
has it been proven to be a myth? i still play on a private server and lots of people believe it

I'm relatively new at ffxi, so dont ask me
>>
>>259845686

Except it's right. Prove otherwise faggot.
>>
Path of exile.
I would change the lag.
>>
>>259843260
this
>>
Best magic system I've ever used was in a warcraft 3 custom game called spellcraft.
>8 different elemental runes
>any combination of 3 had a unique spells
>fire fire fire might be a flamestrike
>while fire fire earth might be a fireball that stuns
>and fire fire water might be a steam elemental
Godlike shit.
>>
>>259851064
>>
>>259851819
>Lightning Purple
>Wind Green
>Earth Brown Plants shouldnt be a part of earth, earth is fucking rocks and shit
>>
>>259852131
he's saying those 3 things are shit, or at least the first 2
>>
>>259849032
Here ya go

>>259849410
Sure thing. I can also post the massive simplification of Warhammer I made after a thread about game balance turned up on /tg/ a few days ago.
>>
Dragon's Dogma magic system is pretty good. I'd add more utility spells to it.
>>
>>259853175
>>259849032
Ah crud, forgot the most important bit

>>259850781
Yep, at the end of the day the elements around us are instruments use to achieve ends, they are not the ends themselves. Many magic systems fall into the trap of saying "yes, you are a fire personality". It's not always wrong, but it's shallow and gets weird when you start saying "you're a cobalt kind of guy". No-one's permanently one element, we've got all qualities in us, it's when we choose to use them that determines who we are.
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>>259852131
Objectively, wind is blue.

Water is actually translucent, it only appears blue because of the sky or nitrogen chemicals, which is the same thing that makes the sky blue.
>>
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>>259840804
Fire Emblem

Anima > Light > Dark > Anima
Sword > Axe > Lance > Sword

too bad they casualized the whole system.
>>
>>259851572
So Magicka?
>>
>Water anything but blue
>Fire anything but red
>Earth anything but brown
>Wind anything but white
>Lightning anything but yellow
>>
>>259854005
>lightning
>yellow
>wind
>white
>>
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>>259843260
Fuck, forgot about that one
>>
>>259845723
this, actually
While we may be able to complain about quirks of Pokemon's elemental system. (Water resisting ice, Ground being immune to electricity and flying being owned by it when it should be the reverse, etc), its a decent system that doesn't try to make everything a complete Rock, Paper, Scissors. Some types play wildly different when it comes to their weaknesses and strengths.
Also Pokemon can have two types in order to cover their obvious weaknesses.
>>
>>259848048
>>259853764
This system reminds me of the way MTG does its colors.
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>>259854142
fite me fagt
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>>259854507
when's the last time you saw a bannana yellow lightning bolt?
when's the last time wind looked like sheets of paper?
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>>259853883
Water has been proven slightly blue for some time, dube. It's only very subtle but it's there. Look it up.
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>>259854005
Lightning is way better off as purple, and earth can work with being green. This leaves the orangey-yellow area for magma and such.
>>
>>259853907
I haven't played FE in a long time, what can be casualized about what is essentially rock paper scissors?
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>>259854692
Wind is colourless, white is the closest thing.
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>>259854417
I've learnt a lot from magic, but ultimately I came to the conclusion that White and Black are conveying two different principles; at times, they are True White and Black (Idealism, Cooperation vs. Gains and Self-concern), but at others they are best described as Yellow and Purple (Helping-Hand Critical mass vs. Independent, Measured Will and Leadership). To me, it is possible to be both self sacrificing AND a patrician, as well as it's possible for a bustling mob to work for itself, so I consider the conflation of them a weakness of MtG.

I'm grateful for the comparison none the less, given the depth of thought and balance that has gone into the game and the value of the other three (aka the majority) of its colours of magic.
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>>259854692
>>259854142
>>259854005
>>259855292
Guys, what colour is air?

Exactly. Wind is the transparent element. You don't notice it, you only feel it.
>>
>>259855972
>What color is air
Whatever color the molecules that make it up are.

Have you never seen colored gases, or smoke? Dust storms?
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>>259856079
>dust storms
>if i put sand in the air, that sand is now air, and therefore air is brown
>>
>>259856294
Correct.
>>
>>259853764
>explosion is it's own school of magic

Now this is my kind of system.
>>
>>259856079
Gases aren't air, anon. And as >>259856294
says, clouds and dusts sure aren't air either.
>>
>>259850135
>>259850423
Directions affecting crafting is not a myth. Day and direction affected the difficulty of the synth. But i doubt either of you crafted enough to realize that.

But sure, you just blow through a shitton of mats while facing the wrong direction and wondering why your skillups are so slow.
>>
>>259856670
>Gases aren't air
Oxygen can be a gas. Oxygen is the air. Nitrogen can be a gas. Nitrogen is in the air. What exactly are you saying?
>>
>>259856551
Right fucking on man. I've always for whatever reason included something along dang ol' kaboom lines in my magic systems, from literally pyroclastic and ballistic powers to this more emotional definition. Everyone loves limit breaks, so I made limit breaks and pure, unadulterated instinct it's own artform.

RULES OF NATURE
>>
BLM in FFXI was so much fun, it's too bad that using Thunder, Fire, or Ice ended up being stronger than the appropriate element most of the time.

I hear it's gotten to the point where BLM's just spam Stone 1 to top DPS.
>>
>high level fire spell is a volcano
>high level water spell is a tsunami
>high level wind spell is a tornado
>high level earth spell is an earthquake
>>
>>259856981
That gases aren't air. Air is air. I don't want to spoonfeed you here, but come on. Air is not Oxygen or Nitrogen. Air is more Air.
>>
>>259853764
I noticed I goofed a bit with the text placement near the top, habe a better one.
>>
>>259857226
Define air without using the word "air".
>>
What about MTG? The magic is all tied to land and what comes from those places. You don't have the rock paper scissors dynamic, and since it's a odd number, there isn't that strict winning group. Also, there are interesting relationships between all the colors.
Inb4 not vidya.
>>
Baldur's Gate 2, d'ooooh

The magic in BG2 played like MTG. You had interrupt, time warp spells, summoning spells, spell combos through sequencers, only in real time.
>>
>>259857226
Those gases can comprise what air is. Air isn't homogenous, either. It can be made up of particles that are different colors.
>>
>>259840804

I'd prefer a game that doesn't take into account element damage in it's name sake.

I'd prefer something like burn, freeze, transmute, crush, pierce, decay and drain damages that would be delivered by magic.

For example, fire does burn damage which would hurt a freeze resistant ice elemental.

This would utterly defeat any bickering about ice or water being separate elements or something.
>>
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>>259857226
>Oxygen and Nitrogen aren't air.
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>>259858391
No vidya game can come close to the feel of playing MTG during the Tempest and Urza's Saga blocks. The story, the art, the mechanics, so amazing, so classic.
>>
>>259844862
>Why does Wind counter Earth?

Because if you're flying you're not affected by Earth attacks
>>
>>259860176
Earth can't be thrown?
>>
>>259845557
it makes sense.
>>
>>259857226
Air = the mix of gases in the earth's atmosphere.
It's not something special/important/poetic whatever.
If you have an Air-ability, that means you have (for a certain amout) a gas-ability
>>
>>259840804
soul sacrifice
>>
I've always liked Angband's absolutely ridiculous elemental system. If you've never played the game:

1. The "basics": Acid, Electricity, Fire, Cold. Damage cap 1600, temporary and permanent resistance available, each of which cuts damage by 2/3 (stacking to 8/9 with both). Immunity also available.

2. "High" resists: Light, Dark, Sound, Shards, Nexus, Nether, Chaos, Disenchantment. Damage caps 500ish, permanent resistance available cutting damage by a variable amount (can be as little as 1/7). Some side effects (Light and Dark cause blindness, etc), all prevented by the resistance.

3. Poison: Damage cap 800, temporary and permanent resistance like the basics, no immunity, side effect poisoning.

4. Unresistables: Time, Force, Inertia, Gravity, Plasma, Water, Ice, Mana. Damage caps 1-200, no resistances, some side effects.

I actually had to look that up because I knew I'd forget half of them
>>
>>259844862

>Why does ice counter wind

This is the first time I've seen this, generally earth counters wind, ice counters water. However this is in games that consider lightning and air the same element (because air spells are based on weather). The addition of lightning as a counter to water royally fucks what ice can deal damage too.

>Why does wind counter earth

Muh erosion, even though water does more damage to minerals.


>Why is darkness and light always off?

Because they're metaphysical magic that represents good and evil. Light is supposed to be holy, or divine, and divinity takes the form of radiance because of christian inspiration where light is used as a metaphor for gods power.

Darkness is the opposite, and it's spells are generally black globs of shit or demonic stuff.

I see your point though, Holy magic has fucked over any potential concept of an actual light mage, who would manipulate photons to create hologram illusions and shoot lasers.
>>
Necromancy in Diablo 2 is best.
>>
>>259840804
Step aside with that rose-petal-vagina-flower colors of the rainbow shit

No pussy elements here.

Invoking elder gods and manipulating realities and dimensions.

It was good for the game it was in, more spells would've been nice. I like that you constructed the spells with different runes and they all did different things. You can make a spell even if you have the runes but don't have diagram telling you what runes to use just by learning what each run symbolized.

A super-pargon would've been nice.
>tfw spell is nothing but pargon pargon pargon pargon pargon pargon pargon pargon pargon pargon pargon.

and I honestly feel there should'nt have been a sanity restore spell. Or make it cost health AND mana.

It was too easy once you got the restore spells to stay full on all three stats. If you recover health, it should more sanity and mana than you gain in health, etc.

Other than that, a fun take on magic in a great game
>>
>>259848498
>>259845361
What about gravity?

Gravity bends time and space
>>
>>259857889
The atmosphere of the planet Earth. Done.
>>
>>259859542
This doesn't affect the fact that Air is Air.

>>259859815
That image works towards my point.

>>259861229
Nobody brought up poetry.

Are you saying that those with command over Water have Liquid ability?
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>>259864132
what gaem
>>
>>259866029
Gravity is at a 90' angle to Space and Time, and at odds with Electromagnetism, which is a polarising and extreme all-or-nothing force compared to Gravities' all-encompassing, constant mild prescence.
>>
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>>259866398
>>
>>259866396
>Air is Air
Define the word air without using the word air.

>That image works towards my point.
Air is composed of a mixture of gases?

Please, explain what you think Air is, retard.
>>
>>259866582

It's like TeS

the 4 fundamental forces are the same thing but only think they're different.
>>
>>259866396
>Are you saying that those with command over Water have Liquid ability?
No, because water is its own compound. "Air" is just a general name for the planet's atmosphere, which is a mixture of many different compounds, so if you have power over air, you should have equal power over all the many gasses that comprise it.
>>
>>259845656
Yes.

Wind countered Chronos.
Fuck if I know why or how.
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