Which video game has your favorite spell/magic lists and relations and other mechanics?
What would you change about it?
I always liked how it worked in GBA Fire Emblem.
Fire, Ice, Thunder, Wind etc. kinds of magic were all considered nature magic(Or anima if you will). There was also the light and dark schools of magic.
Light beat dark
Dark beat anima
Anima beat light
Newer Fire Emblem games cannot into magic properly.
I enjoyed FFXI's magic system too. Music is the best magic.
Water and Ice being seperate elements is a good thing, else you get water being dominated by ice spells like water never killed anybody.
Customary "fuck you and your giant Mr. Frosty machine being more powerful than the God of the Sea, Golden Sun".
Golden Sun had it right
With Earth/Fire and Wind/Water having some sort of affinity
Maybe a light/dark can be worked in this somehow but I feel it's not needed
I really enjoyed Saga Frontier
Spells themselves were kind of limited within the schools but the skills and combos were awesome. GOAT feeling was when you go to do a basic attack and then that light bulb pops up over your chars head and he/she learns a new ability which they use that turn
I never understand element relations like these.
Why does Ice counter Wind? The cold has no effect on wind. Heat does, and it has to be on a global scale.
Why does Wind counter Earth? It takes wind millions of years to erode earth. With this logic Water should also counter earth, and do it better.
Why does Lightning counter Water? Water than has any type of mineral in it actually CONDUCTS a current away from itself and towards other objects. It does the same thing that earth does.
Why are Darkness and Light always off on their own somewhere? Light is a for of radiation/heat, it's the same thing as Fire. Darkness is the absence of radiance/radiation, and is the same as cold/ice.
I've always had an idea for shit like this
Fire-Water(does not include ice)-Earth(Does not include plants)-Wind
It doesn't work in a rock paper scissors way, like Fire itself can't defeat earth or wind if it's a strong enough fire(or hell, wind could even make it stronger), and obviously not water, and you can combine subs and mains to get other elements, like Ice would be Water+Cold, Plant would be like Water+Light+Heat etc.
The only game the came close to this was Magicka. Some in OP make no sense anyway.
Why would Ice defeat wind? And why would fire Win over Ice? Yeah it melts it, but then it becomes water. I'm thinking too much about this.
Pokemon because they at least pretend to give reasons why things do what they do.
These elemental systems are always a tip off the game is going to be bullshit retard easy with no actual reason to choose one element or another for it's own sake.
"Hurr durr the ice dungeon, better bring my fire guys/weapons/spells!" and it all degenerates down to that. The entire "Depth" of the combat system is essentially boiled down to one fucking conclusion. "It's blue, so use red!" over and fucking over.
Which Final Fantasy had the best magic/job/equipment mechanics?
And why is it 9?
I'm sort of a sucker for D&D there. Sonic, positive, negative, divine (and divine being separate from positive/negative), pure magic, acidic. That's the kind of stuff I'd like to see more elsewhere.
Guild Wars because there isn't an X damage beats Y defense, it's just straight up damage and you can make your armor stronger against certain types of damage, whether it be physical or elemental. Then, there are damage types that ignore armor such as Holy, Dark, and Chaos, and or less explicitly is damage that depletes health over time,
GW had very diverse spells and abilities, too.
I like it where the element doesn't matter, and instead each school of magic is based on the source from which it springs.
I devised my own magic system in which magic is derived from various balances of three different sources:
Passion, which is Red and derives from the emotion that goes into the magic
Nature, which is Green and derives from how true to established harmony and patterns the magic is in use
Thought, which is Blue and is derived from the complexity of the magic's purpose
In between each are
Eagerness, which is Yellow and derives from the frequency of the magic's usage, making it opposite to Thought
Calm, which is Teal and derives from the passive, inobtrusive use of the magic, opposed to Passion
Nobility, which is Violet and derives from the tested and acclaimed mettle of the magic's application, making it opposed to Nature
And inbetween each of the above you have Energetic (Orange), Charitable (Lime), Pax (Jade), Creative (Sky), Profound (Indigo) and Romantic (Crimson) magic.
And of course, there are the opposed principles of Idealistic, Sacrificial, Cooperative magic - White - versus Acquisitive, Sufficient, Impulsive magic - Black.
So anyone can learn to cast a fireball. But if your fireball is derived from a low, furious impulse, it will burn a dark red flame. If you cast an illumination spell, motivated by nothing other than sheer kindness, the light will be a gentle lime green. If you cast a sheet of ice over a passage in an effort to solve a problem and contribute to a greater situation, it will be a pale sky blue. And if you aim to conceal yourself in darkness out of pent up, tired frustration with a situation, the fog will be a dull orange.
The colours of magic, ladies and gentlemen.
Time is the ultimate true neutral element. It doesn't serve any grand purpose, it simply exists, a defining force that both leads and causes everything transition in reality from one frame to the next.
The closest you'll ever get to an opposite of time is Space, as in the malleability of the present moment and all the various arrangements and transformations that can be applied to the here and now. The pair are essentially the metaphysical Freedom and Order, the metaphysical Liquid and Solid.
I'm getting into board game design myself (system engineer, out of work, and bored, think it could be fun). Want me to throw you some mathematical systems I've been working on?
The directions, yes. The days of the week having an effect on elemental damage, no.
Also best job coming through.
I enjoy systems based on humanity like this, rather than the much more common, generic, and uninspired systems based on arbitrary "elements" and basic one-dimensional strength-weakness relations.
Best magic system I've ever used was in a warcraft 3 custom game called spellcraft.
>8 different elemental runes
>any combination of 3 had a unique spells
>fire fire fire might be a flamestrike
>while fire fire earth might be a fireball that stuns
>and fire fire water might be a steam elemental
Ah crud, forgot the most important bit
Yep, at the end of the day the elements around us are instruments use to achieve ends, they are not the ends themselves. Many magic systems fall into the trap of saying "yes, you are a fire personality". It's not always wrong, but it's shallow and gets weird when you start saying "you're a cobalt kind of guy". No-one's permanently one element, we've got all qualities in us, it's when we choose to use them that determines who we are.
Anima > Light > Dark > Anima
Sword > Axe > Lance > Sword
too bad they casualized the whole system.
While we may be able to complain about quirks of Pokemon's elemental system. (Water resisting ice, Ground being immune to electricity and flying being owned by it when it should be the reverse, etc), its a decent system that doesn't try to make everything a complete Rock, Paper, Scissors. Some types play wildly different when it comes to their weaknesses and strengths.
Also Pokemon can have two types in order to cover their obvious weaknesses.
Wind is colourless, white is the closest thing.
I've learnt a lot from magic, but ultimately I came to the conclusion that White and Black are conveying two different principles; at times, they are True White and Black (Idealism, Cooperation vs. Gains and Self-concern), but at others they are best described as Yellow and Purple (Helping-Hand Critical mass vs. Independent, Measured Will and Leadership). To me, it is possible to be both self sacrificing AND a patrician, as well as it's possible for a bustling mob to work for itself, so I consider the conflation of them a weakness of MtG.
I'm grateful for the comparison none the less, given the depth of thought and balance that has gone into the game and the value of the other three (aka the majority) of its colours of magic.
Directions affecting crafting is not a myth. Day and direction affected the difficulty of the synth. But i doubt either of you crafted enough to realize that.
But sure, you just blow through a shitton of mats while facing the wrong direction and wondering why your skillups are so slow.
Right fucking on man. I've always for whatever reason included something along dang ol' kaboom lines in my magic systems, from literally pyroclastic and ballistic powers to this more emotional definition. Everyone loves limit breaks, so I made limit breaks and pure, unadulterated instinct it's own artform.
RULES OF NATURE
BLM in FFXI was so much fun, it's too bad that using Thunder, Fire, or Ice ended up being stronger than the appropriate element most of the time.
I hear it's gotten to the point where BLM's just spam Stone 1 to top DPS.
I noticed I goofed a bit with the text placement near the top, habe a better one.
What about MTG? The magic is all tied to land and what comes from those places. You don't have the rock paper scissors dynamic, and since it's a odd number, there isn't that strict winning group. Also, there are interesting relationships between all the colors.
Inb4 not vidya.
I'd prefer a game that doesn't take into account element damage in it's name sake.
I'd prefer something like burn, freeze, transmute, crush, pierce, decay and drain damages that would be delivered by magic.
For example, fire does burn damage which would hurt a freeze resistant ice elemental.
This would utterly defeat any bickering about ice or water being separate elements or something.
Air = the mix of gases in the earth's atmosphere.
It's not something special/important/poetic whatever.
If you have an Air-ability, that means you have (for a certain amout) a gas-ability
I've always liked Angband's absolutely ridiculous elemental system. If you've never played the game:
1. The "basics": Acid, Electricity, Fire, Cold. Damage cap 1600, temporary and permanent resistance available, each of which cuts damage by 2/3 (stacking to 8/9 with both). Immunity also available.
2. "High" resists: Light, Dark, Sound, Shards, Nexus, Nether, Chaos, Disenchantment. Damage caps 500ish, permanent resistance available cutting damage by a variable amount (can be as little as 1/7). Some side effects (Light and Dark cause blindness, etc), all prevented by the resistance.
3. Poison: Damage cap 800, temporary and permanent resistance like the basics, no immunity, side effect poisoning.
4. Unresistables: Time, Force, Inertia, Gravity, Plasma, Water, Ice, Mana. Damage caps 1-200, no resistances, some side effects.
I actually had to look that up because I knew I'd forget half of them
>Why does ice counter wind
This is the first time I've seen this, generally earth counters wind, ice counters water. However this is in games that consider lightning and air the same element (because air spells are based on weather). The addition of lightning as a counter to water royally fucks what ice can deal damage too.
>Why does wind counter earth
Muh erosion, even though water does more damage to minerals.
>Why is darkness and light always off?
Because they're metaphysical magic that represents good and evil. Light is supposed to be holy, or divine, and divinity takes the form of radiance because of christian inspiration where light is used as a metaphor for gods power.
Darkness is the opposite, and it's spells are generally black globs of shit or demonic stuff.
I see your point though, Holy magic has fucked over any potential concept of an actual light mage, who would manipulate photons to create hologram illusions and shoot lasers.
Step aside with that rose-petal-vagina-flower colors of the rainbow shit
No pussy elements here.
Invoking elder gods and manipulating realities and dimensions.
It was good for the game it was in, more spells would've been nice. I like that you constructed the spells with different runes and they all did different things. You can make a spell even if you have the runes but don't have diagram telling you what runes to use just by learning what each run symbolized.
A super-pargon would've been nice.
>tfw spell is nothing but pargon pargon pargon pargon pargon pargon pargon pargon pargon pargon pargon.
and I honestly feel there should'nt have been a sanity restore spell. Or make it cost health AND mana.
It was too easy once you got the restore spells to stay full on all three stats. If you recover health, it should more sanity and mana than you gain in health, etc.
Other than that, a fun take on magic in a great game
This doesn't affect the fact that Air is Air.
That image works towards my point.
Nobody brought up poetry.
Are you saying that those with command over Water have Liquid ability?
Gravity is at a 90' angle to Space and Time, and at odds with Electromagnetism, which is a polarising and extreme all-or-nothing force compared to Gravities' all-encompassing, constant mild prescence.
>Air is Air
Define the word air without using the word air.
>That image works towards my point.
Air is composed of a mixture of gases?
Please, explain what you think Air is, retard.
>Are you saying that those with command over Water have Liquid ability?
No, because water is its own compound. "Air" is just a general name for the planet's atmosphere, which is a mixture of many different compounds, so if you have power over air, you should have equal power over all the many gasses that comprise it.