I've been a game dev almost a decade. Most of that’s in AAA, but recently I've been indie. I don’t know Zoe personally, but I’ve have had professional contact with some minor players in this drama.
Everyone should be aware that game journalists have always promoted their friends. It just wasn’t (historically) as bad in AAA, because there’s a wall of separation between dev and marketing. The PR guy making friends with press doesn’t work on the game, so he has no personal stake. And journalists rarely have direct access to the developers (although twitter is changing this). Obviously, corruption/nepotism exists in AAA, but for the most part it’s a mutually beneficial professional relationship between two businesses facilitated by friendship.
But an indie developer is both the person making the game and doing the marketing. So if he or she is friends with a journalist, it completely ceases to become journalism at that point, and instead becomes a clique friendship thing. Journalists become emotionally invested in the success of their friends’ projects. Plus, the “monetizing celebrity” aspect is a huge factor. Ad revenue, donations, etc.
With this current Zoe Quinn ordeal it doesn’t matter there is a romantic element.
Fact is I’ve known terrible developers who put up their vaporware on Kickstarter and get funded for obscene amounts because they’re best buds with a journalist with 100k+ followers. And that journalist gives them serious promotion which gets them funded. And indeed these projects fail, and it happens all the time.
Meanwhile, other projects put up by talented people don’t get funded, because they aren’t friends with journalists and aren’t celebrities themselves. Journalists are the gatekeepers of what games you know exist, and they have a personal interest that you know certain games exist over others.
And to me, that’s far more offensive than anything Quinn’s accused of.
On a personal note, I fell in love with games as teenager in the mid-90s. I was awkward, anti-social, had a lot of emotional issues, etc. Video games were my safe place for me from high school cliques, bullying, and dealing with issues at school and at home.
Bullies are often immune from blowback – that’s why they’re bullies, right? They’re the football star, or the daughter or son of someone important in the community, etc. They’re manipulative liars. They can do whatever they want, and you cannot fight back because the administration sides with them and manufactures the necessary facts to do so.
I ultimately got into game development because I wanted to bring other people that same joy I experienced, and the same safe place I was fortunate to have.
The absolute worst part of this whole thing is that now games are “cool,” suddenly the cool kids are back in charge. And they’re bringing the same circle-jerk groupthink clique mentality to what is rapidly becoming an unsafe place for the awkward misfit teenagers like I was. You have to have the *right* opinion, or be ostracized. You have to be cool and trendy and tweet witty things to your thousands of followers, or nobody gives a shit about you and your project. And if you are twitter-popular, everybody praises your video game “insights” regardless of whether you’ve actually made a game.
I’m never going to be a popular person. I’m happy just having worked out (most of) my issues, and being able to live like a person. But, fact is I have a project and I can’t express my opinion publicly because I will inevitably be harassed by the very people claiming to be the champions of social justice, and they’re immune from any accountability for their words or actions.
Also, journalists HATE getting called on their bullshit, and use the power of their celebrity to punish individuals who do so. Welcome to high school, anons.
I suppose we're all anonymous on this one.
>Also, journalists HATE getting called on their bullshit, and use the power of their celebrity to punish individuals who do so
Great, I guess /v's work is paying off then.
Now get out and make more games, faggot.
What do you mean? Anything that increases their followers is a win. Celebrity is monetized. This is what is meant by clique friendship circle-jerk.
If a journalist backs a vaporware kickstarter (for example), it will be at least a year before this is known. That's long enough to forget who promoted what.
1. Make Retarded Indie Dev a well-known person
2. They get googled
3. Your site's reviews of their games come up in addition to their twitter account
4. In his twitter account they share link to your reviews
5. Get traffic and get ad-revenue (and before you start with the ad-block defense, most people don't use ad-blocks outside tech-related sites)
>Meanwhile, other projects put up by talented people don’t get funded, because they aren’t friends with journalists and aren’t celebrities themselves. Journalists are the gatekeepers of what games you know exist, and they have a personal interest that you know certain games exist over others.
As someone trying to make a game and who likely need a kickstarter to afford legitimate copies of the software I use, this shit terrifies me and will probably be the reason I throw away everything and quit.
I don't understand what you mean here.
So take a journalist that writes for gaming sites, but also puts out semi-regular youtube videos as an example. Youtube gets him ad revenue, and that number ultimately is a function of his followers across all the social media he's on. That's celebrity. So the name of the game is self-promotion.
Now let's say he's best buds with an indie developer who has no track record, but knows social media and has amassed some followers. And they're both part of the same twitter community-web-ring (lets call it).
Journalist promotes indie developer's project (either on his own channels, or whomever he writes for), because they're friends... BUT also because they each benefit from the cross-promotion.
It's high-school. Popular kids being friends with other popular kids to further their own popularity.
Except in this case, popularity = $$$
Gamedev here. First project was kickstarted and greenlit recently.
Can confirm this is how it is. I've met many of the players involved in this drama, from the main cast to the supports, and man, its just... THEIR scene.
They make the rules. They decide who comes in. They push people out.
Here's the interesting thing that always stuck with me: they KNOW some of the stuff they do is hypocritical. They know they're bullying people when they dox them or start a twitter war. Phil Fish is aware of how everything he says sounds. They just... don't give a fuck. Its either an in-joke, or they chalk it up to being for a greater purpose, or they say that the person they're hurting would have hurt others. Its not malicious-- its groupthink.
Please understand that its dangerous for devs to criticize these people. They have connections in the gaming press, and even with kickstarter. They can burn you with a tweet and your career is over-- I've seen it happen.
Stay strong, OP, and hope you have no bugs in your next build.
Sent a setter to Maker, the ones who made Polaris.
How'd i do?
I want to make similar connections. I want to get entrenched in game development, meet these people at PAX, talk to them about their games and their views, all while recording literally all of it like the Tortilla/Jaffe thing and then getting people to realize how fucking trash they all are.
I wish I'd gotten into this shit when I was younger. I'm too old to do anything now.
Damnit, I'm sick of this shit.
If its that fucking bad with corruption, why don't you speak out?
If you guys are really game devs and have seen this shit, why don't you have some fucking integrity and say something?
It's a shame, it's not just limited to games and games journalism, too. I had a friend working as an administrator for a school district in my town and someone applying for an Accountant position was gunning for the post, but was denied because an office assistant with no education or knowledge of accounting was chosen because she has a friend with the lead administrators. Crap like that is absolute bullshit, of course my example is minor but I am bad at recounting stories of bureaucratic bullshit.
No, fuck that.
Doing nothing is the same thing a supporting shit like this.
Don't some of these people have a fucking conscience?
Fuck anyone who sees this shit and does nothing.
>If its that fucking bad with corruption, why don't you speak out?
Because, it would be a career-ender.
Most actual developers aren't celebs, and have no twitter followers to rally. We just make games, and don't care about the fame. So if any of us get the gaming press against us, it's over. As they say "you'll never work in this town again."
It's an asymmetric war. Our only power is as anon.
A lot of them don't do it because it can ruin their careers. Whistleblowing is a nasty word that companies don't want to hear or hire. If you work in an office and sue your company, other prospective companies will see that on your record and won't hire you because they fear of the MERE POSSIBILITY of getting sued themselves.
Long story short: You're a white knight bitch who supports the death of the gaming industry and thinks it's okay for this dumb bitch to rip people off and use her "MUH OPPRESSION" to shut down beneficial things.
Go fuck yourself with a wood shovel
Lets say there is an actual dev in this thread right now.
THIS IS THE PERFECT TIME TO SPEAK OUT HOLY SHIT.
ONE PERSON STARTS AND MORE WILL COME FORWARD DAMNIT.
>We just make games, and don't care about the fame
Then what's the problem? Everything is working fine. Stop wasting your time on /v/, go make your game and don't come back without a link to where we can download the demo.
>/v/ threw thousands of dollars at an ideas guy because we were mad at feminism. You have no excuse.
A collective thousands of dollars is vastly less than an entire future income... as a professional game developer, if all your potential employers know about you is that celebrity game journalist X tweeted that you're a rapist... welcome to permanent unemployment.
>the very people claiming to be SJW are in fact bullies
This is what's bothering me the most lately.
Those fags can't see they themselves are the bullies. The whole fucking world thinks they are the epitome of social justice, when they're in fact narrow minded bandwagoning faggots that just parrot what's "cool" at the time.
Sucks that you're in this position OP.
Pick one. If you picked the first one, relax, the AAAs don't give a shit about indie squabbles. If you picked the second, relax. /v/ is here for you. /v/ cares.
>Then what's the problem? Everything is working fine. Stop wasting your time on /v/, go make your game and don't come back without a link to where we can download the demo.
This is my downtime I fixed "that bug" today :)
I'd like to think that if I was in their position or any where I see corruption, I would come forward.
I don't understand, if I saw some fucked up shit going on, I would try to get it out there. Even if the truth kills me.
I honestly couldn't live with myself watching corruption.
Why do people have to be such cowards?
>I have a pretty good idea of who you are, but I won't tell.
If you know me in real life, you probably can guess who this is. But the people who actually know me aren't going to go crying to twitter.
Gamedev from >>259728331
I used to be pretty damn opinionated when I was on my own.
Now I have a team. Everyone on the team is scared that we're going to get bashed by our fairweather friends. Its a call every hour-- "Are we safe? Does anyone think we don't support them? Did you talk to anyone?"
Our livelihoods are dependent on keeping our heads down and staying silent. We have money NOW for food and rent, and if we speak out, we might not have any.
Someone posted that we should just trust /v/ for support. I wish I could, but the risk for the potential reward is too great. I couldn't bear telling my team that we're broke because I said I was sick of the gaming clique at the top being judges, juries and executioners of indie.
Maybe a one man team or duo could do it. I wish them the best of luck: as soon as its proven to be safe to speak out, I, my team, and pretty much every small dev I know will be happy to help overthrow those pink haired hipsters.
>I wish them the best of luck: as soon as its proven to be safe to speak out, I, my team, and pretty much every small dev I know will be happy to help overthrow those pink haired hipsters.
Yes. This. Exactly the same boat.
To the game developers in this thread, what you need to do is work behind the scenes with the group that supports you. Reach out to people who know it's bullshit, have them reach out to more. Amass an amount of developers, journalists and people in which the group is too large that their house of cards just tumbles down.
If you find enough people and all come forward at the same time, there's no possible way it could backfire on you because you would have so much support from other developers, journalists and consumers. Then you can work without fear again.
>TL;DR MASS A HUGE FUCKING GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS THAT ARE IN THE INDUSTRY.
I understand. It's an indictment of the shitty system we live in I guess but whatever. We really need lots of devs to come forward and blow this shit open; one or two or five come forward with stories, one takes that risk and I think that opens the floodgates.
So many people then following up on what these people are doing destroys their cartel. But I also completely understand why you or the other Game Dev Anon wouldn't want to. It's just frustrating.
Think about this: all those developers busy being twitter celebrities, posting screenshots from whatever convention, when do you suppose they're actually working on a game?
Game development is hard. I mean that. It's like 12-hours-a-day hard. 100% of your mental energy is going to your game.
Most of the celebrity designers you hear about aren't the ones doing the work. Which is why most real developers aren't famous, there's no time.
If you watch their or their friends' twitter, you'll see them ruin someone. They don't keep it a secret: they retweet someone who disagrees with them, they post their kickstarter, they ask their company's twitter why they hired this person. Mike Bithell does this a lot. Rami Ismail loves arguing on twitter: its his main mode of communication with everyone, and he tells people to tweet him instead of giving them a phone number or anything.
The biggest thing that surprised me about Phil was how quiet he always was. Rarely would add to the conversation, would type stuff on his phone, show it to someone around him, they'd laugh, conversation would continue. It'd be a tweet meant to rile people up.
Then I hear from other people that he's a nutcase when he's working. I guess he just doesn't deal with stress well.
Davey Wreden is a cool dude. Primo individual.
A follow up statement for this as well, if you're willing to come forth when there's enough people, talk to a Youtube personality like MundateMatt or Jontron or have someone who is already against this whole nepotism/corruption shit and have them keep a list of people that would step forward at the right time.
If you gather in force, they cannot break you. I swear to god, I'm living poor now and if I were in the industry I would undoubtedly risk living poorly again for the future developers and designers that hope to get into the field.
The problem is that the journos can make it look like everyone that speaks up is against a "good" cause, and bring the entire gaming community down on these developers like the fist of an angry god. I'm an animator that's working on my own projects right now, and it's something my team has heavily considered when working on our shit. Only thing is that we already have a bad rep for supporting the "darker" side of the internet, so we stand to lose a lot less than some of our more socially accepted peers.
As game developer myself I second every your word, and whish to addthat I was always forsed to cater to "cool kids" in terms of scenario.
Only met AuntiPixelauntie once. She was the life of the group. Very funny person. This was when she made Lesbian Spider Queens of Mars, and I was just a starry-eyed college student, and she was an awesome person to be around-- full of positive energy, and you laughed whenever she did.
Haven't spoken to her since.
Exactly! They just need to find a person who will keep everyone connected behind the scenes. I would say he's pretty trustworthy since they already dragged his name through the mud. I'd have a little anger towards them if I were him.
We just need a few brave developers to kick it off and more will come.
>tfw it's the exact same thing in the television animation scene
>if you're not buddy buddy with the calarts clique you're pretty much doomed to obscurity
at least there's the option of joining different cliques of varying scummyness, but I feel you. Can't say what you really want to say cause the celebrity chick that makes shitty blog comics could call you a sexist and get you blasted off the face of the planet.
Okay, how about
People like Jontron have their own communities. At least a million people trust the opinion of these people. They've already spoken out about it, so they have nothing to lose by making a video about it with your support. You can fix everything, anon. Besides, do you really want to work in an industry that is this corrupt?
>Hes pretty burned by indie devs right now.
I think most people support him. But the cool kids would destroy your ability to promote and sell your games if you publicly said so. That's scary stuff.
Yet another dev here. I've left vidya long ago, but worked for a bigger studio for a while (not quite AAA, but close).
I can completely confirm the 'power' journalists have. That's why big companies buy positive reviews. And it used to happen quite openly, back in the days of actual monthly paper magazines. If you wanted a 90%+ review in a popular magazine, all you had to do is buy full-page ad space for a couple months, basically. Or be 'friends' with the editor (expensive dinners, exclusive gifts and so on).
If anything, this has become slightly better. Nowadays you have many choices to get your reviews from. And while I'm not particularly fond of that streaming fad on youtube and twitch, at least you can get a bunch of different opinions - some might even be unbiased and honest.
>Is it possible to make it as an indie dev while being apolitical, or do you need to suck that dick to get anywhere?
It's possible, it's just very very hard unless you are actively part of the circle-jerk. You have to work for every dollar, not get it handed to you on a silver platter of press and promotion.
TB has a pretty substantial amount of followers.
TB doesn't even have to say he had a hand in all of it. All he has to do is keep the developers that want to come forward on a list and help them contact each other. The developers could just come forward all at once and say "this shit is wack, we're living proof, look at our numbers."
You know what? Fuck all this shit.
This entire thread is probably bullshit but if there is a game dev in here, fuck em.
I don't understand how someone can think they are a decent person and watched fucked up shit happen. Where's the integrity? Where's the decency? How can you live with yourselves?
I'm sick of all of it, going to pretend gaming died after '05 and just sit in /vr/.
>Rami Ismail loves arguing on twitter: its his main mode of communication with everyone, and he tells people to tweet him instead of giving them a phone number or anything.
Is he a fucking robot? I mean I'm a fucking shut-in NEET with no social skills and social anxiety yet I'm still able to (and prefer) having actual fucking conversations with real words that you speak and shit.
Yep, exact same cliquey bullshit you have to tread around like a minefield. It's more transparent tin the indie scene with comics, but trust me, there's not a modicum of professionalism from the big leagues.
And from what I hear from a friend trying to make movies, it's the same thing in the movie business. From a friend trying to make an album, exact same thing with those record companies. None of it is about making quality products, none of it is about making art, it's all about a bunch of fucking freaks ruining it for everyone else.
>TB is another group of "cool kids". One with a million+ subscribers. Is a million people not enough?
For him maybe. But what, are we going to rely on TB for every release when we need a press push? TB has his followers, I don't.
And from what I hear from a friend trying to make movies, it's the same thing in the movie business. From a friend trying to make an album, exact same thing with those record companies. None of it is about making quality products, none of it is about making art, it's all about a bunch of fucking freaks ruining it for everyone else.
And now they've come to games. That's what this is all really about. Social Justice is the Church of Scientology for the game industry. Either you're in, or you're out.
I like how some people think nepotism mioght be some sort of unique thing.
Said, it's everywhere and not just in the entertainment business. Welcome to reality.
Funny thing is it's not hard to do, really. Just google around for meetup events in your area. Utilize shit like Meetup.com to find local game dev networking events. Then all you do is go and talk to people. That's how you make those connections.
Shit, I've met a few of the involved parties or those close to them at some of these events. You literally just keep going, remember who you met last time, keep talking to them, and so long as you can get them to like you, you'll become their "friend" and be "in" with the scene.
Networking ain't shit anon. All of these people will freely give their opinions to a stranger in person so long as they don't suspect them to be a potential threat.
Everything is. Take comics: look at the shit going on with Yale Stewart. Then look at how many of his main detractors (Ulises Farinas, Neil Cicierega, Ming Doyle, Betty Felon, Kate Leth, Andy Khouri, etc.) are all part of the same clique and how many of them also write for or contribute to Comics Alliance.
> ...suddenly the cool kids are back in charge. And they’re bringing the same circle-jerk groupthink clique mentality...
This shit happens with any group, and it's not about the "cool kids". Find any group of people that gathers over a common interest and there'll be some sociopath exploiting that group for attention, power, money, whatever.
Nerds just happen to be an easy target. Every RPG, gaming, CCG group i've ever been involved with has had a Zoe. The loud extroverted nrrd grrl that makes herself the center of attention and glomps, snuggles, fucks, and animus her way through the group until she's built up a harem of white knights.
I've seen this shit happen repeatedly for twenty years now. The internet just makes it bigger and more visible.
>ask TotalBiscut or something to host a panel somewhere like PAX
>promise him/her that you and your team will be happy to speak at it about how the current state of gaming journalism sucks dick
>ask the host to give an open invite to other developers to speak their mind as long as they contact him/her beforehand
Easiest shit. Too bad I'm not a game dev else I'd jump at this chance to blow out a bunch of hipster fucks that know nothing about creating fun video games.
>ONE PERSON STARTS AND MORE WILL COME FORWARD DAMNIT.
I really doubt this. One person losing their career is hardly going to incentivise more of them. If this is all true it's not like they don't know how fucked the scene is.
Maybe I'm just a pessimist though.
Because if noname developer tells the truth to the world, it actually seen by ten of his friends, which already know the situation. If word spreads little further, that man just brought down
>No, it's all bullshit, you know it and they know it. An excuse they feed themselves to feel better at the end of the day.
Trying throwing away a 10-year career in a specialized industry where your skills don't translate to much else, and tell me how easy it is.
Walk a mile and all.
Not that I could ever develop a game but in this hypothetical, it doesn't matter what your political views are I think. I'm extremely far-left politically and I do care about social justice stuff. But there's a difference between me being for it and me being a SJW and I'd have no problem expressing my views when I think people are being retarded or harmful or shit.
Being on the left if there's one thing I've learned it's that your leftists (I'm talking your people who claim to be communists, socialists, anarchists, etc.) will fit with each other as much as they'll fight with the opposing side. To these people I'd imagine their political beliefs are more a means to an end and same beliefs or not they woudln't hesitate to destroy you if you said or did something that put you on their bad side.
When I worked for a previously big deal retailer that is currently spiraling the drain and trying to save themselves, they basically had something that said:
Anything you say can and will be used against you to royally fuck you over for the rest of your life if it makes us look bad.
Now imagine that scenario, where you have to be the martyr. That you are the one who may potentially have to throw everything about yourself away and never be able to live the way you want to ever again.
I'm not saying it's right or that it's a good excuse, just saying that some of us don't want to. We either have something we value with the way things are or just fear change. It's just how some people are.
You don't have to accept it, but you do need to understand this is how people think sometimes.
>move to new town
>check out the trading card/comic shop
>there is a large group of friends that play MTG
>I go frequently and end up 'joining' the group and playing MTG with them every few days at least
>There is one girl there, not very good looking who I find intolerable because she's always chatting about unrelated shit to one of the people playing, and ignoring the other
>Her decks all have some really expensive cards, like Jace and Thragtusk
>She wins using Thragtusk and thanks one of the other guys
>I ask why she tanked him
>"He gave me that card"
>Other guy speaks up "Isn't that the one I gave you?"
>turns out that she hasn't spent a dime on the game and the guys were just giving her expensive fucking cards because she was the only girl
The fucking worst.
She eventually got bored of MTG and no longer shows up.
It's very simple anon. We don't want to commit career suicide by identifying ourselves in any way. We know how these groups work and in order fo us to be successful in this system they control, we have to play by their rules. Any one of us coming out and sacrificing themselves as a martyr won't upend the system and we know it. Believe me, we want this to change just as much as you do but we know that in order to succeed we need to bide our time and and strike when the perfect opportunity presents itself. To do anything else is to throw away our livelihoods for absolutely nothing.
Indie gamedev is like joining the Nazi or Communist Party.
You're now part of the sekrit club who runs vidya, but only if you follow their rules. And good luck taking down Hitler or Jang Zemin.
>want to game dev because vidya is all I had when I was ostracized by cliques
>same shit as before, if you don't agree with the general consensus you get fucked in the ass
I hate people.
This shit just makes me want to become a NEET again. Or kill myself.
>Any one of us coming out and sacrificing themselves as a martyr
Except if you're not a liar, there isn't 'one' of you. There are lots of you, all gasping for freedom. You ARE a liar, though, so you have a point.
I have difficulty to believe any of this.
For years, it has been more and more obvious the journalists are the lapdogs of the game industries, trading good review in exchange of early peek and exclusivities, in the hope their unique contents will maintain them alive.
That now OP and other anon identifying as "devs" say that Journalists are actually the ONE being in power is kind of difficult to believe.
>Except if you're not a liar, there isn't 'one' of you. There are lots of you, all gasping for freedom. You ARE a liar, though, so you have a point
If they control the gaming press, and social media, and essentially the "prevailing wisdom" of the scene... how exactly would that work?
You don't get it.
If these people are on your side, your reputation won't be ruined. More people watch Jontron and Totalbiscuit than people who follow the twitter of hipster mc pink hair.
if you prove that their right and they win more people will be on your side and play your games or whatever. You are literally ignoring the group that is forming for you to tell the truth out of fear. you are a pussy and you are playing it easy. it only gets worse from here. just wait until the very idea that you MIGHT say something offensive gets you shafted and shit on by these fuckers.
congratulations. you are a loser
>I have difficulty to believe any of this.
> For years, it has been more and more obvious the journalists are the lapdogs of the game industries, trading good review in exchange of early peek and exclusivities, in the hope their unique contents will maintain them alive.
> That now OP and other anon identifying as "devs" say that Journalists are actually the ONE being in power is kind of difficult to believe.
Unless you are Sony, or EA, or Nintendo, or Blizzard, etc... the gaming press owns your future. Most game developers aren't those guys.
These anons are right. It's stupidly easy to get yourself permanently banned from the gaming industry.
What's /v/ going to do for us? If we're indie and come here /v/iraling our shitty indie game you'll all laugh at us and mock our game and never give us a dime. Shit happens on the daily.
Not to mention, /v/ does not protect us from this corrupt system. Independent developers still rely on the media and their connections within the games industry in order to market their product. No one person can do it entirely on their own. You think I'm wrong? Try it yourself and see how far you get. Take note of how far your connections take you, even if it's just your friends list on Facebook or followers on Twitter.
Only just realised this, but the only time I ever go on other game sites is when something on /v/ is unsourced and I'm trying to find the source, or it's linked here directly.
Neat. I'm not a part of the problem.
You don't get it.
Look around what happens to whistleblowers, in other industries. They are brandmarked for life and most of them start a new career as authors or create unions for other whistleblowers. They can never go back to their old job. And to be honest, I like gamedev.
See, fucking seriously, he's big enough that if everyone started saying "we want to speak out about the indie scene" he would take your name number and tell you other devs you can talk to about it.
Don't forget, they fucked with him too.
No. They won't. However we are at a point where we can majorly fuck Zoe with it. Like fuck her into pariah status. At that point they can't very well hurt you anymore can they?
And really you'd be the guys who helped cleanse indi gaming. That IS good publicity. As is appearing on TBs show.
This all hinges on enough devs getting contacting TB and him being willing to do it. But I really suspect he just might. If there is like 10 indi studios backing TB on something like that Zoe can kiss her ass goodbye.
Also stop antagonizing the devs you faggots. This IS actually hard for them and I can totally understand that they don't want to throw away their only source of income. Help them. The fact that they are posting here should be proof enough that at the bottom of their heart they'd really like to help.
This goes beyond money, or even careers, too. To some of us, this is our dreams: we've dreamed of making games for our entire lives, and now we have the chance to do so.
I bawled my eyes out when I reached my kickstarter goal. I bawled my eyes out again when I got greenlit. Every day, I google my game and see if there's some new lets play, and it doesn't matter if its just some kid with 2 subscribers, I watch that shit and I feel like I'm the luckiest person in the world.
Believe me, the second anyone tries to take this away from me, I'll fucking claw their eyes out. I'll break them, even if I have to break myself in the process.
But nobody is taking it away from me now. They take it away from others, and its the saddest thing in the world to think of what they might be going through, but you also know what everyone else with this life is thinking: "I can't risk it." They won't help you if you help them, so you don't help them. That's the danger. That's the reality.
Well, I'm crying again. Good job me.
This idea of separation of "cool kids" and "outcasts" is damaging, not just to yourself but everyone. Ignoring all the stupid, inane shit that goes on according to you guys (hurrr they can destroy people with a single tweet), by accepting there are "cool kids" and "nerds" you are proliferating a societal meme that merely perpetuates that paradigm. We are all humans; games didn't suddenly get popular, it just turned out that almost everyone already was playing them in some part and now it's openly talked about instead of in the shadows. Video games becoming a mainstream medium is not a bad thing unless you want to maintain the secret clubhouse mentality which is also flawed because you will inevitably have to grow out of that at some point before you can become a functioning human being. Basing your life on the divide between dominant and submissive personalities is a stupid as fuck idea; why didn't you go into a career that could wipe out that divide entirely?
A lot of /v/ doesn't understand because they don't fucking have a job. Certainly very few of them work in an industry like game dev. I don't blame these people. What happens when they speak out? How do they pick up the pieces?
Look out how much these shitheads hate us, and then imagine actually them having control over your livelihood and an actual face to aim at. It's great and all for us to be able to aim at them from behind the veil of anonymity, moot bless it, but when your ability to actually pay rent is on the line, it's a different story.
>If we're indie and come here /v/iraling our shitty indie game you'll all laugh at us and mock our game and never give us a dime
>being so utterly full of shit that you can say this with a straight face while a Vivian James post is stickied
Because people in other industries blow the whistle on politicians and powerful corporation. A bunch of hipsters do not have that power. People like TB have more power than them, and they are on your side.
>We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not descended from fearful men
We need someone with a large enough voice to globally show the videogame journalism in its place. Not Jontron "large," not TBFP "large." No, we need a skit panelist on The Daily Show to say the truth. That is a source of news so widespread and plugged into the current youth that if it calls the bullshit, everyone will acknowledge there's a problem with video game journalism.
Twitter is a plague. Somehow most of the devs using it correctly are japs. People like Kojima and Kamiya who just shoot the shit and don't get into stupid online arguments.
No. I'm just not a coward. you're an fool. you're too naive to see that your dreams are being burned right under your feet. as long as you stay there or don't put out the fire. you will burn. THAT is the truth and you are in denial.
I'd rather target the SJW to its core, but it's untouchable, you could call them out with evidence proving they are literally Hitler in a wig and they would be able to deflect it so hard it would burn you.
Only AAA devs have the power to call the journos out. But they won't since they like having corrupt and easily manipulated game journalists around to publish their press releases uncritically.
AAA doesn't benefit from honest game journalism.
The only way these journalists can be beaten is people power - consumers voting against them and their interests with their wallets.
Oh piss off
The entire reason we're bitching is because these shit people have the fucking power to ruin smaller devs with their horseshit. A small dev can't fucking do anything to make an impact. You're going to need a big publisher to really make a dent.
If you really want these people to come out then all of /v/ has to make a commitment to buy at least 5 copies of their game, or at the very least, not fucking shit post their game to death on /v/ and maybe even promote it for them.
But you won't do that /v/. You'll shit on them when they come out just as you're shitting on them now. You'll pirate their game and call it a shit.
You'll get bored of this soon enough and move on to the next TORtanic soon enough. These devs owe you nothing unless you're actually willing to support them.
I'm gonna make this easier, e-mail me the name of your game and I will buy a copy. I'm not gonna tell anyone, I just want to give money to someone who is very clearly passionate about video games, and this is no matter how shitty it is.
I'm kinda like you, with same past and same concerns, but I am studying game art and trying to get into the industry.
Been slowly sending my portfolios off to AAA devs I've met and gotten some email exchange going and even interned and done freelance work for 2 different AAA studios/publishers while being somewhat friends with a lead designer in RSI and senior 3d artist at TT-fusion and good friends with some people who own indie companies
I've been hit with depression badly lately and making it inna industry after uni is the only thing keeping me from just killing myself.
I've been told its not what you know its who you know but I'm still insecure about my abilities, despite me being the best artist in my class in both 3d and 2d arts (those skills are roughly on bar with some game studios). Should I learn animation and some coding and spend a lot of time making my own game or should I just keep honing my skills at 3d and 2d?
Vidya has those powerful entities as well. TB might be helpful to promote one game despite the clique being against you. Then as soon as the scandal blows over, and it will, you'll be left on your own again. Unemployed.
For some people here, it seems really hard to understand how this works, I don't know why.
>I'd rather target the SJW to its core, but it's untouchable
You don't get it. SJW is just a tool. A bunch of people who start with thinking discriminition is wrong, and because there is truth behind that get rilled into being used to boost the personal carrier of people who only care about themselves and know which buttons to push.
>I have often heard Nintendo doesn't bribe. How much truth is there in that?
No idea. But I have never heard of a direct bribe. The way it works everywhere is soft influence. Both gaming news sites and studios are businesses, and they have a business relationship. Meaning the things that happen are in both party's best interest. That's business.
I think most sites try to write fair reviews, but the big publishers know who are friendly to them... and often limit exclusive access to friendly parties. That's what I mean by "soft influence."
Note how that scenario is entirely different for indie, where as an indie you are the press's bitch.
Here's an idea: find as many game devs as you possibly can who will speak out on the issue, and then you can all collectively air out your grievances at once in some way. Your voice must be absolutely sound; don't let there be any way for journos or dissenters to dissect your words. Eron has been in touch with multiple game devs over the past week; reach out to him first and find out how to go about it.
Or, you can continue to conform and let the industry run you. If that sounds better for you, then fine. But I guarantee this would be the lesser option in every way.
Because /v/ is pretty much one, if not the, largest videogame community.
Basically appease /v/ and you'll get sales from /v/, which is instantly followed by reddit doing the same
What it comes down to for me is that this generation has no concept of selling out. The goal is corporate sponsorship, it's whoring yourself. If you get paid to shill crappy headphones and energy drinks you have made it. It is so completely fucked up to me.
here have a picture
>The only way these journalists can be beaten is people power
When the average modern gamer is so easily manipulated, can that even be managed? I mean, /v/ is basically a really loud minority. Most people don't even think there is a problem.
Well it doesn't always work out for them.
Remember the story of Andy Warhol. He was damn good at his job and everyone knew it, and he got by pretty decent. But the real respect he wanted was being cut off by another clique every bit as bad as this one. Even his other friends in the same boat wouldn't speak out even if they had the exact same problems to the letter.
What happened was when things blew up everything changed. All the gatekeepers basically got thrown out and you got new dealers and new showings and a whole different scene from before.
I get the feeling that this is what's gonna happen. Kotaku and IGN and Polygon are basically gonna get thrown on their asses at some point and another group is gonna take over. I can't promise they'll be better to you but these guys will be gone.
None of them fucking care. Most of the people involved in video games don't even care, for that matter.
I feel like /v/ sometimes loses sight of how little video games matter in the larger world. If you're not CoD tier or the latest social media/mobile gaming hit, then you aren't really worthy of attention from anyone but gamers.
It's like when people attribute fluctuations of Sony stock to PS4 bullshit when in reality the gaming division is one minuscule part of Sony's operations. None of this really matters all that much to the real world, guys.
When the hell did videogames become this bizarre political battleground. Not even movies are this shit when it comes to things like these.
>yfw you realize the only way to counter the hipster fucker game scene is /v/-based patronage.
>the fucking power to ruin smaller devs with their horseshit
All we've heard is a bunch of cowards CLAIM people have been destroyed, claim they're scared, but have produced no evidence.
I thought you guys liked evidence. You'd think there'd be more of it.
It's like this.
Get into their scene and you're guaranteed sales, even for a shitty product. Stay neutral and it's a gamble. Speak out against them and you're blacklisted.
I guess if you work with other communities and voices, you can make money.
Jontron isn't a game deve. He is basically self-employed and self-suffisant. Even if it fuck up he doesn't have to worry about someone else taking the blow or seeing uppr-management blocking his content.
>tfw it's the exact same thing in the almost any other industry
You guys should just realize that this is how capitalism works and deal with it already.
This. /v/ can afford to be like this because they have anonymity and the vast majority of them won't ever get close to the industry.
You saw what happened to FYC. They basically buried it and it stayed buried for months. It was basically pure luck that it ever came back and even now they're fucking with it all over again.
You ahve no clue what one screenshot could do. Phil Fish visits 4chan. Zoe visits 4chan. Their supporters visit 4chan. Its not safe. I want to believe you because I believe people are good and wouldnt fuck over someone just for voicing their opinion but the only evidence Ive seen from these people and from how the scene is is that its not safe and it kills me to think how toxic it all is and that theres nothing i can do.
Im sorry, I cant risk it. I cant riisk it.
>This idea of separation of "cool kids" and "outcasts" is damaging, not just to yourself but everyone. Ignoring all the stupid, inane shit that goes on according to you guys (hurrr they can destroy people with a single tweet), by accepting there are "cool kids" and "nerds" you are proliferating a societal meme that merely perpetuates that paradigm. We are all humans; games didn't suddenly get popular, it just turned out that almost everyone already was playing them in some part and now it's openly talked about instead of in the shadows. Video games becoming a mainstream medium is not a bad thing unless you want to maintain the secret clubhouse mentality which is also flawed because you will inevitably have to grow out of that at some point before you can become a functioning human being. Basing your life on the divide between dominant and submissive personalities is a stupid as fuck idea; why didn't you go into a career that could wipe out that divide entirely?
I'm just telling you the reality. When I started in the game industry, this shit didn't exist. When I started it was about making awesome games.
But the self-styled cool kids took over. And now we have to live in their world. This is their world, same as high school. And yes someone internet-famous tweeting that you're a rapist can destroy you.
What reason do you have to doubt him exactly? The logic is sound and the recent controversy makes me feel like they're telling the truth.
Gaming is currently an oligarchy that can brutally lash out at anyone trying to mess with the pecking order. Just look at how FYC is turning out, they want this to remain as low brow as possible, they're trying to repress as much info behind the scenes as possible.
I'm not one of games devs. But I am currently trying to get job in an industry I love. And I HAVE been bullied in the workplace. Its part of reason I'm now a bit of a shut in.
I don't think your coward. Dealling with bullying in the workplace was one of the hardest things I've ever done. I'm not surprised your keeping quite.
Enjoy your owl.
SJW is social marxism, you can't target it directly. You can chip away at it by attacking its tools. Video games is a tool for SJW, you can disable this tool in their hands. Once they lose their means, the center implodes. This is quite hard, since social marxism is responsible for the innovation of almost all use of media to convey ethics.
"Cult" is a very effective word to describe SJW. Individually its members are extremely weak, they can't handle confrontration and therefore resort to mob mentality to avoid loss. The deadly cocktail we see with video games is that there's big money ready to pay e-celebrities that spread this cult. Remember the last time a cult had money? Scientology, which is now on the decline.
>implying any of you are developers
>implying you faggots aren't just making shit up for attention
This. The video game industry is very much in a "I wanna be a big boy!" stage, and is desperate to cling to anything to be taken seriously. Makes for a good soapbox for political agendas.
Former AAA dev here. It isn't even just the jounralists. Sometimes even within big companies the politics are so prevalent that not only do they have entire PR departments solely dedicated to being the middlemen between the Devs and the public, that you also have to censor yourself when talking to ANY of your coworkers. Any inter-office rumors come up that you might not be going along withe the collective group-think of the company? You're gone.
It's like, the PR departments are there to police you and say, "you can't talk to the public about ANYTHING without us telling you how to go go about it and/or approving it first." Don't believe me? Go look up average employees of big name companies on twitter and see what they do and do not talk about. Many say very little at all. It's not because they don't have opinions they want to share, it's because they are forbidden to share them. Not even with their spouses.
Whole thing is a totalitarian nightmare.
>What reason do you have to doubt him exactly?
The piles of claims made with no evidence.
>The logic is sound
The logic that SJWs are a bunch of whiners with no real power is sounder.
Tell me right now motherfuckers.
If these small devs come out, will you support them? Will you buy their games? Will you buy their future games? Will you tell your friends about their games?
Or will you forget about them once the whole thing blows over and leave them out to die?
Doing to a charity is easy. You can pat yourself in the back because you think you did something good, but are you willing to spend your money to support a product you may not even like just because these people are on your side?
You completely missed what I was saying.
You don't live in "their" world. There is no "other". They are humans, you are human. The only one perpetuating the divide is you. No one comes up to you and says "you're not a cool kid". The reason you feel like you're in high school again is because you never developed past that point; you just drifted through. You need to make a change in your own head. There is no one "out of your league", there is no one "better than you at everything". How do you think these people feel? Look at what Zoe Quinn described in her past. She feels just as much of a bullied outcast as you, but you consider the game industry at her feet. Why are you different? You need to cast off the idea that you are lesser, because you're not And you're beginning to use it as an excuse for not doing things you could easily do.
There is a limit to the journalists power. No amount of shilling will turn a shitty indie game into a megahit, just some reasonably okay sales.
Word of mouth makes sure the truth does eventually get out.
/tg/ here, it's not quite on the level of that for our roleplaying games, but there's this nasty circlejerk of Something Awful goons, White Wolf devs and rpg.net freaks who want to grab our hobby buy the balls. Thank god for the era of pdfs and print on demand leaving them incapable of stopping publication.
We need people that go against them to make games with different opinions. SJWs are killing creativity and artistic growth with their bullshit social policing. Imagine if Scorsese listen to idiots SJWs. We are never gonna have our Scorsese ,our Kubrick, our Fincher as long as we listen to these morons who find offense in everything and who day in and day out attempt pre-censorship on anything that doesn't meet their views. We will never have our 2001 or our Goodfellas because of these people. Fuck you SJWs for constantly trying to ruin this growing art form. Fuck you dammit.
TFYC want actual equality and are giving their profits to charity.
SJW took them down because their cult leaders don't make profit by supporting them. They're not in bed with these people.
Over AAA projects?
Obviously they're rather ineffective at the moment, but as you should have noticed they are breaking in in small areas. EA comes to mind.
As for indies, anyone with half a brain can see that SJW's have a sizeable chunk of control over that scene. Indies are already pretty risky on their own. Most of the successful indies are a direct result of someone else talking about their game, not them advertising it with a small amount of exceptions. A very small amount.
SJW's could very well deprive a small indie dev of a large chunk of potential buyers, which could easily be the difference between pocketing money and being in debt for them.
Also true. This board's general counterculture mindset is pretty easy to exploit, albeit in an opposite direction. Really, any group in general is easy to herd if you say the right words. Fuck, is there any way to win? Even not playing is just like plugging your ears and saying "LA-LA-LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU". Solves nothing.
Is there any reason Capcom won't put Date Masamune in umvc3 with the Well, what is it! taunt for his win pose? Do they hate rule of cool in AAA dev teams? Why do cool things never happen in AAA games, do you get thrown out for suggesting anything new?
Shit nigga that sounds fun. I loved Polterguy.
What's her name?
Question for AAA devs.
what would it take to make games good again?
I'm tired of cinematic experiences, third person cover shooters, narrative focused FPS, etc.
Would you say that journalists have a bigger influence on the dumbing down of games or investors?
Also, why did you reduce the stealth genre into a gameplay mechanic for action games and why don't you make a 3D platformer? ;_;
>are you willing to spend your money to support a product you may not even like
Me? No, never, only retards do that. But /v/ is FULL of retards, so why do you need my approval? The Viviandrones have deep pockets and no standards.
its because the devs lost the creative control and games are designed by men in suits based off of what brings in most profit.
Each mechanic has a piece of paper with potential income and target audience attatched to it.
We already had that shitstorm ages ago m8. You're probably too young to remember but there's a reason that most major publications make frequent use of 'she' in their corebooks.
Luckily RPGs still aren't cool, as OP puts it.
My partner and I attend FNM sometimes. We don't play very seriously outside of OCTGN because cards are very expensive, but cheaper draft games can be fun. Despite her being dressed conservatively, and clearly with me, she is regularly approached by other guys wanting to give charity.
They want to offer her shoeboxes of their trash cards, or they offer some really rare cards if she will play with them. They want to teach her how to play, despite her already being competent. If she ever does try to trade, she gets offered far more than her cards are ever worth.
She generally just refuses anyone who treats her like that, but the persistence and sheer number of these guys is truly astounding. If being a woman is not ezmode life, it's definitely ezmode FNM.
Its incredible how corrupt these SJWs fucks are. It fucking incredible. Good luck in the future anon. Hopefully vidya has a better future without these fucks. I know one thing, i dont trust any fucking websites that promote any SJW shit. NONE.
Appraise each situation on your own, and try not to swayed by the opinions of others. The only way not to get caught up in group think is by divorcing your opinions and person from the group.
It is like in high school, oppressed ones are minority, and even if all nerds stick together, they are still will be 1 to 5 norms. Most of my friends game developers don't give a flying fuck about what game they do, as far as they getting paid enough, so they can go on vacation with wife and child.
>TFYC want actual equality
If they wanted actual equality, they'd make the women do their own work to get their games done. Right now, they're doing the same thing Zoe does: beg for other people's money to pay for other people's skills.
but your denying the truth
your dream job is going to shit because the ones speaking are putting you down. do you think its going to get better? do you think its going to stay WHERE IT IS? no. its going to get worse. so much worse that you'll wish you were dead. You'll wish you never even got involved in this business. that or you'll actually buy into their propoganda and when you finally die and you realize it was all a toxic crock of shit your last moments will be nothing but regret. If there's one thing i've understood from these crazy sjw fucks its that speaking out without backing down works somehow. and if you have the facts and the truth then you've won. but whats worse is you've been so fucked up by these bastards that you don't trust the people who are on your side. everyone's like that. everyone has been quiet. but now when everyone is speaking up and calling this bullshit out you're still hiding out of fear. I bet when you think its safe you'll finally start speaking up. its sad that your so scared you cant make money off of developing a game because you cant handle having an opinion. maybe you should have tried not letting it go to such shit then. oh wait. that's not an option, right?
I'm not really in the biz myself just yet but I would say the best thing you could do is make a good programmer friend and start on a project together. That way you can focus on what you already do well and improve on it, and your programmer bud can do the same. Even if whatever game you bump out isn't a huge hit you'll have something you can show companies that I can only imagine would leave a good impression.
Shit that looks hella cute
It may not be Polterguy, but I do enjoy the concept. I get the same feeling out of it as well.
So can we talk about good, low radar indies then?
Anyone else play Unity of Command? If you like turn based hexagonal tactical WW2 themed strategy without going full simulator I've yet to find anything half as good as it. I got it all on sale, so pretty good use of my money if you ask me.
>If they wanted actual equality, they'd make the women do their own work to get their games done.
Technically speaking they do.
What /v/ fails to realize is that actual video game development isn't just one auteur standing around like Kaptain Kirk on the enterprise, it's dozens or hundreds of people working on one project.
One of the main issues Quinn and her fuckheads have is that TFYC doesn't mince words about it. The winner gives a bit of information but they have actual professional directors and lead animators and sound designers who get that credit and take home actual paychecks.
Even then, they have to prove a fuckton before they get to that stage, since there are dozens of applicants doing shit.
>You don't live in "their" world. There is no "other". They are humans, you are human.
If you are not in their world -- aka their scene -- good luck getting your game promoted. Oh wait, they destroy things that compete with them. See: TFYC
>The reason you feel like you're in high school again is because you never developed past that point; you just drifted through.
Is this Zoe? :p Because I thought opening up about my personal life was a bad idea on 4chan. I knew people would come in and give me shit. And yes, your comment is nonsense.
>She feels just as much of a bullied outcast as you, but you consider the game industry at her feet. Why are you different?
Everyone who doesn't have journalists and twitter celebrities at their beck-and-call to promote their personal projects are different. It is HARD to get press unless you're in "the scene," or you are AAA
It's not meaningfully different than any other kickstarter game, from a consumer POV
If I do end up donating to it (undecided so far) it'll be because I want the game in question, not because of muh charity or whatever
>The reason you feel like you're in high school again is because you never developed past that point; you just drifted through. You need to make a change in your own head.
You say this in light of Randy Pitchford being CEO of a major game studio. You say this when 20 years ago, the equivalent head of a major game studio was John Romero (who shared this with Carmack, Hall, and Carmack). Romero mismanaged his studio and mismarketed his game, but Pitchford is on record as insulting his customers while having played a hand in misappropriation of publisher funding. Gearbox is fighting lawsuits, and that's not even the biggest lawsuit the industry has had. You really think the 1990's were no better about this sort of thing between developer and consumer than the last 10 years?
I think it's all still on sale on the main site, but I could be wrong. Might have been a weekend sale.
I dunno if it was just a coincidence or what but I stumbled on the site on accident last year and got the base game and first expansion and then randomly checked back up on it Friday and they had the new expansion and everything else on sale. Might just be that they do regular sales. It's got multiplayer support, but I'm too chickenshit to try it.
Here is the pic of the game. Tough I have to say, it does look promising. Too bad it will never come out, now.
You know I have talked to TB before. Met him at some event he was casting. Gave me his card. I contact him and he never replies. Celebs are inundated with shit from random people. If they notice you and actually help you, awesome! But that shit doesn't just happen to every nobody out there. That's why they're the celeb and you're the nobody.
You mean anons like you? No I'm just gonna sit back and watch the world burn like the rest of you. I'm not gonna lie like the rest of you, that's all we're really going here. This shit's better than reality TV. You can't write bullshit like what's gone on this last week. Hollywood ain't got nothin' on this. Go ahead and talk about how you're doing shit for the cause. You're contributing just like any shithead that texts in their vote for Dancing with the Stars or some crap like that.
Keep on following the dream anon. You've got to trust in your own power. I'm right there with you.
>Want to start trying to make vidya
>This whole shitstorm
Are you trying to tell me I have to get buddy buddy with Zoe and her band of shiteating, SJW scum of the earth maggots to get a game published on steam?
What an absurd fucking joke
>Life ambition is to make people happy by making video games since that's pretty much how my early life was spent thanks to parents having bias for my brothers and getting bullied at school
>Trying to work with RPG Maker now to build a Myst-like game, which is easily doable from the time I took toying with it.
>Find out about corruption in journalism
>Scared for my life since if I can't make it anywhere in video games, I'll kill myself since my purpose in life would be dead
I really hope things get fixed. I've honestly been scared and stressed out by this whole ordeal.
Hardly. Artistic integrity has never been a prerequisite for importance. What matters is how many people you matter to. Nothing more, nothing less. Everyone has read a book. Everyone has seen a movie. Half the population has never even touched a video game. If you only count real, non-mobile ones? Probably even less.
It'll get there someday. But today, and tomorrow, and for years to come, vidya is barely a blip on the radar (except when we need something new and scary to demonize).
I said I was I trying to get into an industry I love.
It ain't video games sunshine.
>its going to get worse. so much worse that you'll wish you were dead.
Wishing I was dead? I'v been there already asshole.
You know, I admire the shit that you're doing /v/ but for all of you guys saying that its our fault as developers that this happened have no clue how the industry works. You can act all brave because you're anonymous here but I bet you 10% of this board wouldn't have the balls to risk their face for this.
Also, it's highly likely that if one person comes out, the others will throw them under the bus. And despite what you say, you'll forget about them and they won't have a shot ever again.
Game development is fucking hard work and no one with a brain would recklessly throw that all away.
Fuck I'm mad.
I'm the guy behind the email, and he didn't and the email had self destructed 2 minutes before anyway, if you want proof check this shit out
as you can see the email had 5 minutes to live and he sent it when it had been dead for 3 minutes, his shit is safe and I will never know.
I was reading someone's post in another thread earlier today that stated that it might be an advisable course of action for indie devs outside the clique support network (i.e., the ones who want to stay clean of this garbage) to *subtly* advertise their games on /v/, provided that their games aren't of poor quality and are likely to be appreciated by /v/. Was that good or bad advice?
Is /v/'s userbase particularly paranoid of and hostile toward *all* viral marketing, even if it's from companies with a clean name which are not held in prior contempt?
I'm not the same person you were talking to, but I'm curious about this regardless.
Not necessarily, but doing so will all buy guarantee it'll end up on Steam and you'll get a big boost in buyers than if you'd gotten it in on your own.
And if they blacklist you, you could also lose a good chunk of potential greenlighters and buyers.
>if one person comes out, the others will throw them under the bus
...are you admitting that if one of your number tried to fight back, you'd all sell him out?
How can you say that and still insist you're not a coward?
Oh, and to clarify, by "subtly" I meant not acting like an obvious shill, but simply starting discussions about it and making people aware that it exists in a manner consistent with that of an ordinary fan.
If we could get developers to speak out on /v/ and pitch their games, we could fucking support them.
Fuck the industry, this will be by gamers FOR gamers.
well whatever it is. it'll go to shit if you let it. I'm not an asshole. trekking miles through a fire to get out of it is still better than just standing in it and saying its what you wanted.
I get you.
I wanted to do video games growing up (after figuring out that mad scientist was in fact not a real career choice). But the more I read about the industry and what its conditions were like when I going to school, the more I decided that I wanted no fucking part in that bullshit.
I respect the devs in this thread for loving video games enough to push into that heaping pile of shit. But not in a thousand years would I want to trade places with you.
You know what I would do if he sent you the game? Blackmail him. Threaten him to give you money in a paypal or you release it. Or to post nudes. Or anything. I'd do that. Just for the lulz.
It's more about hostility than paranoia. Like this guy said:
It'll be better to be upfront about it. Even then, making dozens of threads a day will eventually get you crucified by /v/.
If all of you gamedevs sent an e-mail to TotalBiscuit about all this right now, he'll probably do something. He's already seen what happens when this clique turns on him. More than once in fact.
This 'inner circle' angle is something he can really address without having to go through the whole sex scandal thing.
I actually like when devs come here to talk about their games, I am weary of viral marketers, but really if your game is good or appealing than I will like reading about it, and I will buy it.
Well, we have photographic evidence they were here. Even if we didn't, not surprising - everyone probably pops by this site at some point or another, if only briefly. Unless they're dumb enough to fall for THE INTERNET HATE MACHINE crap.
There's honestly nothing inherently wrong with Kikestarter and Indiegogo. /v/ just attached the people that abused those systems to them and no attributes the whole idea as bad.
Are there people that abuse the system? Of course. Who doesn't try to find an easy way out? If /v/ would stop shit posting for 2 seconds and actually supported their hobby, the indie scene wouldn't be so fucking bad to discuss around here. We'd have more people discussing AND funding games like >>259737636 or Afterlife Empire on /v/.
But we won't. We just live from controversy to controversy.
We want these anonymous devs to step up and make a difference in the industry, but we aren't willing to do that ourselves and actually support these people, not just in with money, but with actually doing what we're suppose to do.
Talk about video games.
>On a personal note, I fell in love with games as teenager in the mid-90s. I was awkward, anti-social, had a lot of emotional issues, etc. Video games were my safe place for me from high school cliques, bullying, and dealing with issues at school and at home.
Fuck yourself liberal filth, you are supposed to grow up and fight the cancer.
Yes but vidya needs to grow as an art form to get there but SJWs will never allow that. Shitty romantic comedies would never exist if film as an art form had never gotten respect.
I can't see one succeeding in any circumstance. At best, you'd get something like Gather Your Party, which lots of /v/ hates anyways.
Also why does everyone immediately jump to a website? Something like a mailing list or ezine wouldn't have to pay hosting costs.
Working on an rpg as a hobby indie development. Spending my money on art resources and I will probably give it out for free.
I want to make more free games and send a big fuck you to all corrupt journalists publicly.
>there's a reason that most major publications make frequent use of 'she' in their corebooks.
I've always wondered about this shit, you see she more than he in these rulebooks
for the longest time he was regarded as gender neutral when the sex of the individual in question was unknown, so it's very jarring
I'm probably going to start a shitty wordpress website, something like theneedledrop for games
I don't really give a shit if anyone watches my reviews, but I just want to contribute
It's not scary, it's a "pay attention to me" attitude. The very same one that motivate 4chan posters.
Everyone want to have "hey guys, hey guys look out what I foud out!" and have their 5 seconds of glory with the clique that share the same targeted "ennemi".
4chan behave exactly the same.
It doesn't have to be organized. It's self relient and work without anyone ordering around.
>"grow up and fight the cancer"
top lels mate. you don't fucking matter at all in this, even if you tried to do something it won't change anything. the entire fucking SYSTEM is corrupt, Zoe just blew the lid on it. let's not both delude ourselves, after this blows over you won't remember anything and will continue playing vidya.
Really doubt he meant they were fucking policing the website. Just browsing.
Either way, it's irrelevant. If they weren't monitoring the website you fucking know that within an hour of posting here /v/ would be spreading the word as hard as they could.
>Phil Fish visits 4chan
Man, I still remember the argument with him when he was "Floyd". I basically accused him of having an entitled attitude and blaming Steam and gamers who bought his game at a discount, when he should know about Steam's reputation and Steam does it often. He also tried to change the subject and mention Kamiya and how he acted on Twitter.
I remembered him as a cool animutation guy.
It's quite sad how he went from a guy that just did things for free and was quite cool to another one of internet e-celebs with an ego.
I guess I should've seen the warning lights when I heard how Andrew Kepple did a 180 turn
This anon is right. TB has his following sure. He can market you to that audience, but that's all the power he has. He has power over and audience of consumers not the larger game industry that he's a very small part of.
These hipster devs we're all pissed at? Their connections run deep within the industry and the media. That's more than enough to give you a bad name and shut you down entirely. Fact of the matter is, if someone has as larger reputation than you within the industry and publicly denounces you, you've lost and there's no coming back.
>people think these cliques are the end all of professions
Not necessarily, I tend to think of these cliques as a cartel of sorts. They are a group of people that have a gentlemans agreement to support each other and keep a happy stagnant medium. You can easily tip the scales and bring things back to a more competitive nature, and with the rise of steam/greenlight and a variety of other services and easy word of mouth advertising through lets-players it's easier than ever to be a indie developer. Sure having the journo's certainly helps but with the rise in technology comes new ways to compete with these shitlords, you just need to find that way.
Instead of cooperating with the cartel, you should aspire to be someone like John D. Rockefeller, that innovative jackass that wants nothing to do with cartels and if anything wants to watch them all burn while bringing high quality product at low, low prices. This is how you compete, and this is how you take over markets.
Like I said, it's because we had our shitfest about inclusivity and stuff a long time ago. Now it's standard practice to use both he and she in varying patterns. I think D&D uses gender matching the iconic character of the class in question. I know some places use she for GMs and he for players. Etc, etc.
It's hardly difficult to comprehend, and on the whole it's not really had a negative effect on our industry.
Not gonna lie, a Ezine sounds pretty cool.
It be like the good old days when I use to pick up zines.
Given that basically every industry on earth is to some degree powered by nepotism/cronyism, yes.
It always amazes me how /v/ is so naive for a group that claims to be so jaded then I realize most people here probably still have never had a job.
Hey i've got an idea, how about you stand out and publish this as "anon" but instead of being totally honest about your employer, just swap the name and make it look like you're from other dev.
it gets the story out, your competitor get shit on. Win/win.... PROFIT.
>Neil Cicierega went SJW
...Fuck...I remember him as a kid on Newgrounds and loved his stuff. I supported his work. Now..he went SJW. God...How times changed and it's like seeing a friend go on the wrong path growing up. Depressing
Won't work. Back when There was an kickstarter of an HD remake of Outcast, I tried to make attempt to talk about it on /v/.
I tried to do it 3 or 4 time and every tile I was answered With HUUUR DUUURR Get out , you Viral Marketer.
It was jsut impossible for them to consider that an anon would actually just want to see a game he liked finally see its deserved sucess.
One guy keep saying I was "deflecting" the attacks when I was directly naswering to the concern expressed.
It was painfull. In the end the Kickstarter failed.
>Phil Fish started the "Japanese Phil Fish" shitposting
It all makes sense now. What a faggot.
>Given that basically every industry on earth is to some degree powered by nepotism/cronyism, yes.
No, you're wrong. An industry powered by nepotism and cronyism is on the decline. Only innovation can save it at that point.
WW has literally always been SJW-y, has to do with their roots in the goth scene. It's never been an issue, though, and it still isn't, except among a few /pol/ types who can't stand the idea of playing a game made by those damned liberuls.
To a degree, but when you think person A might be ridiculously more talented than the way more liked person B, doesn't it stir the thought that companies might prefer person A? He might be a Kamiya tier loudmouth but his skills are legendary so they prefer him.
I was already planning on saving the page to my HDD regardless. If anyone of us ever gets in a position to do something about it, I'd think we would be morally obligated to, and I don't intend to just sit around for the rest of my life
This thread has really changed the tone of this "conversation". Up until this it was all "we're winning" or "we're losing", now it's all "this is the real world and things are already fucked".
Keep it real please. Before this cause and Vivian came along everything that remotely looked like viraling on /v/ was instantly met with calls to get the fuck out. What am I even talking about, that shit still happens now!
Sure /v/ loves our daughteru and wants to supports TFYC. But really what rallied you all behind that cause was the potential it had to troll the SJWs we all hate. I love the fact that /v/ is supporting a noble cause like this, and I love the new symbol we've created. But nothing about /v/ has changed. Cept for maybe all these newfag redditors and tumblrites shitting up the boards.
If /v/ managed to scrape together a decent ezine I'd read the fucking thing. At least I'd give it a try.
I'm pretty sure the Escapist actually started as an ezine, back when they weren't another shitty clickbait website.
>and before you start with the ad-block defense, most people don't use ad-blocks outside tech-related sites
Actually, most people don't use Adblock at all. These are the same kind of people that have 10 toolbars in IE. They're simply not aware.
I'm a music producer, I produce a genre that's getting known and getting bigger stages all around the world constantly. Basically in this genre there's this big, I mean fucking big, event organizer that also orders "anthems" for their events. They come to your studio and give you "ideas" about the track they want you to make. When you're dealing with this company's guys you're basically running a service that makes music on demand without a soul, like Two Steps from Hell. They also have this guy who makes all the lyrics which are part of their "idea" of the ideal track for the event. it's all pre-written shit and you're sent this pack of .wav files, guy comes with his lease Audi at your front door and tells you which the track should be like and what the company wants it to be. Other event organizers have taken this approach too more recently.
I still have creative freedom if I want to make my own track for my label, they don't interfere, but they too sometimes order a more "hurr durr happy bouncy MDMA dance shit :^)". That's why some better known guys start their own self-release labels.
A number of White Wolf writers double as moderators on rpg.net, a disgusting epicenter of SJW chicanery. There they've used their powers to abet witch hunts against people they don't like and to shield their own works from the shitstorms they incur by being hypocrites.
Not really. The purpose was to make enough money so that they coul secure themesleve the right to make a sequel.
Plus the game had not met quite a commercial success (considered very good by the ones who played it, tough) when it first came out, meaning many hadn't played the original yet.
Dude is still a primo individual.
He was an in-your-face guy who liked to have fun. You'd think he was 5 years old eating fruitloops watching sunday cartoons the way he laughed at random shit. Maybe a bit much, but genuinely a nice person.
Dude didn't want to censor. Dude did. So sayeth the top brass.
How about you actually talk some sense in here? Seriously, what was the point of posting that video? You trying to intimidate me by posting a trailer to a movie to try to scare me or something?
Like I said, thanks for proving me right by acting like an immature fucktard trying to demonize /v/ for your SJW agenda.
As much as I hate it, but has anyone tried to contact pewdiepie or are we hitting an all new low/is he on the zoe side?
If we get the support of the famous LP'ers then I think we'll get the message out even more
You can believe what you want. That's not how it works.
The fact is that in most cases it's safer to hire (or at least perceived as safer) someone that is a known quantity than someone that is an unknown. So you hire someone you've worked with before or someone who someone who works with you knows. Because that person is more reliable.
And this will always be true.
>now games are “cool,” suddenly the cool kids are back in charge. And they’re bringing the same circle-jerk groupthink clique mentality to what is rapidly becoming an unsafe place for the awkward misfit teenagers like I was
If anyone asks me why I hate something "just because it's popular" this is going to be my response.
The thing with /v/ is that they always fucking complicate everything. Nobody ever wants to keep shit simple.
>That one "Let's make a Vivian James game!" thread
>Suggest a simple adventure game clone based on Beavis and Butt-head on the SEGA Genesis with a very simple plot
>Someone immediately makes a giant post with a convoluted backstory
>Retarded game mechanics that shouldn't be in a simple adventure game
>2deep4u ending with some big bad behind the thing all along
Christ. Too many God damn idea guys around here who don't know when to stop.
I don't understand, I only posted the film because it has "For the Lulz" in it. Don't you remember when the trailer was released and it /b/ went ballistic, I certainly remember.
This, Lets made a post base on OP's post and put an employee name in some shitty developer from "indie clique" send it out and make it looks like they're betraying themselves.
To be honest I was really into the animutation scene at some point and TMST production. It was a very tight clique with absurdist borderline-dadaist humour (and unhealthy obsession with Colin Mochrie)
Then suddenly it cracked, few people got upset. Kepple and Neil started doing their own projects... I guess I thought "Hey they grew up, they want to do something with their lives now". And now I see the ugly face of what Neil has become an e-celeb with opinions to support his e-celeb status. He went from a rebel to a conformist.
Then again I could've seen it coming given his SA background. He always want to stick with the cool kids. And the SA people are the cool kids now.
Hi guys, Phil Fish here.
Just wanted to say I sold off Polytron to escape all that incestuous bullshit. Indie devs are all shitheads but I've always thought gamers were okay people, just had to follow the groupthink or be out on my ass. Sorry if I came across as abrasive.
Keep fighting the good fight, /v/
screencap this and send it to Rami Ismail
You idiots that's the problem. This whole twitter creation of consumer-creator direct feedback is poisonous to creativity. We need other ways. Things like Nintendo Treehouse are perfect because its honest and it keeps the audience at a distance, its not fucking twitter. Twitter is too close, its too personal. dev coming here would be the same thing. SJW cliques need to be done away with but not be replaced by another stupid creator-consumer direct feedback stupidity.
We can cut the head off the hydra sure, Zoe's career is probably ruined and a few more might go down with her. The mass of corruption will probably still be there though, this isn't the first controversy the industry has weathered.
Just post it on here faggot. As long as you're honest about being the dev and explain the journo bullshit (which now everyone is painfully aware of) it may be enough to get the word out.
I doubt anyone would be able to find out jack shit on you based on the information you have posted. Besides, this is one of the most civil and enriching threads I've seen on /v/ in regards to this whole SJW/Journalism/Indie scandle.
When SJWs say fuck the establishment they're just mad that they aren't the establishment. They don't have the spirit of bitter withdrawal from the world that characterizes Goth, who are damn near 4chan's sibling in that.
This is the kind of shitposting we get when people come here in defense of somebody and they think the stories and articles they read about "anonamoose and evil 4chinz" embodies everybody on this board. That's how we can ID these idiots so easily.
>Hurrr, 4chinz started anonymoose
>Hurr they do it for the lulz
>If dey think I would ruin someones life for the lulz they'll think I'm anonymoose
At the same time, these people are probably unaware of the shitstorm they started by censoring this topic anyways.
The ONLY thing protecting them is every board from /b to /pol to /v/ knows that actually attacking them will just prove their point and rally support for them while accomplishing nothing.
Nigga inside the industry it's ALWAYS been a political battleground. You've got your egotistical fuckwits at the top trying to dictate their vision and all the upstarts at the bottom who want to make their dreams happen. Anyone at the bottom who's at all successful knows you've gotta play by the rules until you're in a position of power yourself. PR departments exist to keep that shit out of the eyes of the public.
I think they're a lot closer than you realize.
>When SJWs say fuck the establishment they're just mad that they aren't the establishment.
Maybe. But if you think they believe that, you're being silly.
So I'm not really a dev, but on multiple accounts I've tried to start a project to actually be one. I've even written entire detailed design documents and scripts for it to go nowhere.
The problem with just making a game(at least one that isn't 2d generic garbage) is that the people involved in concept art/modelling/animation are either gigantic beta bitches or mega cunts. This sets them up to be people who naturally agree with the current flow of indie gaming as these are the people that are taken advantage or take advantage of the way things are. Most people with coding capabilities tend to be more chill, reasonable people by the nature of their work, but that doesn't mean there aren't a few nuts in them too. But this is a problem because putting together a battle ready team in itself is an impossible task, none the less acquiring funding and acknowledgement while opposing the indie syndicate.
I had plans though to get around them. There are always people who are on the fringe we could use, gotta find the right channels to the point where we become popular enough that they can't just universally squelch us. We're just something they'd have to put up with and shit on. I think I could manage contacting and organizing that part. But I don't think it would be enough to get through greenlight, and I don't think it would be enough to fund a team of 4-5 people. And so making a team is even MORE impossible because you'll need people willing and capable of making a game for free. And it could be done, I KNOW it could be done, but there will never be people who can do it. I've watched so many people try unprepared too, just to crash and burn, to land in mediocrity, failure, or worse. And it bothers me, because if just ONE team could come together and make personal sacrifices they could become the inspiration for others. They could start a real fight against this shit, bring the ball back in the developer's court.
I just played The Stanley Parable two minutes ago. He replaced the cigarette with a flower, and there's no actual picture of people on fire. You do see the guy holding a gas can and a match opposite this kid (who is still black).
This wasn't there two months back. The tweet is more than half a year old. Davey must've been real slow on this update.
>Everyone want to have "hey guys, hey guys look out what I foud out!" and have their 5 seconds of glory with the clique that share the same targeted "ennemi".
But it's meaningless here because of the anonymity, and if you give yourself a title or trip, you get called a faggot.
I see. Never paid too much attention to that (and, to be honest, never got that vibe...might have to be that in my VtM group we use translated manuals, where it might have been lost)
I'm not precisely sure what that has to do with what I posted (I'm the first person you quoted).
What I had in mind more was a scenario where an indie dev posted about their game on /v/ not necessarily for direct and intensive feedback (although not necessarily NOT that either), but simply in order to get it known to people, so that they could decide for themselves whether or not it was worthwhile and deserving of further word-spreading. If honest indie devs cannot hope to rely on journalists' publicity, then they must seek it elsewhere if they hope to ever be noticed. /v/, being an enemy of the journalist establishment as well as a quite large community, is naturally a place that springs to mind.
I guess some of the people who responded above do indeed have a point -- being up-front about being the developer does tend to be preferable and more well-received (as well as more morally honorable) than doing covert, "just a fan"-style viraling.
Ok, I'm going to be very honest with you game devs reading this. I know exactly how you feel, I'm in the exact same position as you are, the only difference being that I'm under much ore pressure and am risking alot more than you could possibly imagine. Because my dissent is of a political nature.
I'm a radical nationalist (not a socialist but I do admire Hitler). I don't care what you think about my opinions, I am not here to discuss that. What do not want to recruit any of you, change your opinion, market my ideology or anything like that. I'm just going to tell you what we have in common, what differentiates us and how I and many others have dealt with this shit. You don't need to like me, I don't care if you hate me, but what you should do is look at how the nationalist movement all around Europe and America has dealt with this shit you are facing. How we faced our fears, built our own media channels that actually interest normal people, how we spread affect the debate and the media climate, and why we are growing (because we are growing, believe me when I say that).
continued in later post
Someone should copy down all the decent testimony and have it in a easily digestible format so we can send it to journalists/devs who are sort of against the "bullies".
A list of those people again would help, Jontron, TB,maybe game devs who have been silent during this ordeal.
Well let me put some grains of sand into that grinding gears of yours. Punk rebellion in early WW games was all about breaking the establishment or working around it to achieve good. Good examples are: Brujahs and Anarchs vs Camarilla as a whole.
SJW is never about breaking the establishment. It's all about turning the establishment to work for you into a more oppressive machine. SJW is like Black Spiral Dancers from W:tA. They pretend to be your friend and to break you from the shackles of Werewolf society, then suddenly you're plunged into this spiral of insanity and there is no going back.
Although I have to say, I can see where you pull out that SJW argument given what the nWoD has been. If we're talking with strict oWoD terms, you sir, have no idea what you're talking about.
The greatest part about all of this is how much harder it's going to make things for indies now.
Got your game mentioned somewhere? You must have slept with them.
Got a kickstarter? Clearly involved in some manner of tax fraud.
Want to help others? Vested interested and ulterior motives, right there.
Talked to someone we don't like? Enjoy having your entire life doxxed to the internet.
Publishers are going to make a mint on picking up small devs who want to avoid all that shit and bleed them dry.
as an artist I can tell you it's likely the right brained nature of the field. I personally am a huge showoff, say what I want, would fuck a guy's girl then give him pix of it on his phone and taunt people who act retarded. But only if it's funny. And I can be funny.
I've got into a lot of trouble and had to change my behaviour very quickly into my career, really. The coders always seemed like more lax, likeable individuals.
While there are no upvotes, the community laughing at your stupidity or ignorance is a major deterrent to be a clown. Same goes for tripfags, to the point where this exists:
If you are posting anonymously, no one cares. If you aren't, people really wont care and will call you mean names.
To OP and the rest of the developers here. I honestly believe you should consider the ideas suggested on here about forming your own company and try to talk to certain people, in secret with a large following who can support your causes. Like explained here.
Obviously, don't get a loan to fund the company, that's one of the worst things to do considering how making money is not guaranteed in this industry. Also, try to find creative ways to save money. Examples include sharing a house (id software did this if I remember correctly), make certain house purchases as business expenses in tax returns, or even take advantage of government small business programs.
Doing this may give you and your friends some creative freedoms to explore your "artistic needs" in the field. You may also make new friends and all of you can end up being your own support group when needed to help deal with the stresses and anxiety of the industry. Hopefully, this will lead you to a happier and healthier lifestyle as well.
Just be prepared in case it doesn't work out. Having to take an alternative career might be more beneficial for you in the end. I know this is your dream to work on video games, but with the way the industry is going, it may not be worth compromising your integrity and mental health, just to make games.
It's mostly an nWoD thing. Because, you know, SJW didn't exist when oWoD was a thing.
I still feel pretty confident that if SJW was around in the early 90s WW would have been more than happy to cater to them then, too. Luckily they just had goths and their punk trapping to go to, so we got much better stuff.
> the community laughing at your stupidity or ignorance is a major deterrent to be a clown
>implying attention isn't what they want
People trip because they want attention. They win every time someone calls them a faggot because it gives them an excuse to keep posting.
To be fair, it's mostly the people with animation skills that seem to suffer this. I've met some pretty great concept artists(and I mean hell look at all the cool drawfags on 4chan), and modelling itself isn't too hard until you get to the animation. But man I have yet to find a person with animating skills who doesn't suffer major beaten wife/stockholm syndrome or is the most commanding/demanding shitburger you could imagine. And none of them will just do the fucking work you ask of them without being coddled or nagged.
Knowing code and animation helps a lot in getting hired with some of the smaller studios, but in the AAA industry they mostly look for someone who specializes in what they do (environment, props, conceptual work, characters, etc).
Not saying you should limit yourself to one skill, but you should make it clear in your portfolio what you know best and how that skill is what they're looking for.
No lie in that connections help you get noticed quicker though, but don't give up on trying.
If your game is good people here will buy it regardless. Look at that fucking shit terraria. Blatantly viraled, even publicly exposed for it, and stupid niggers still bought that piece of shit. Is your game good or is it shit? If it's shit, you've got nothing to lose by speaking out anyway, and if it's good, people will buy it.
This for one: >>259737146
Two: games are too fucking expensive man. You know what are huge money sinks in a development budget for a AAA title?
Localization, Marketing, QA
Localization is necessary in order to reach a wide enough audience to make a profit. Want to know why game writing is shit? Cuz you need to dumb that shit down for an international audience. Want an example from another industry? Look at anything Michael Bay makes. Story is shit. Sells purely based on the special effects. Where does it make most of it's money? Other countries. How do you keep the cost down? Simplify the localization process aka dumb down the story/dialog.
Marketing is just as necessary. Can't make back that budget unless you reach a wide enough audience.
QA is a preventative measure. Sure it doesn't get as big a chunk of the budget to play with, but you have to make sure the game is relatively bug-free in order to minimize support costs after the game is released.
I don't have an answer to your question. Just making you aware of the realities of AAA game development.
What would it gain them?
The point of doing this shit is that you get more promotion for your game. All the other shitty indie devs pretend to be friends with you and pretend to be friends with them and you promote each other. It's their way of making up for not having the ability to do real marketing. How would breaking that benefit them at all? Suddenly you have a bunch of people hating you and denouncing you. That's not gonna help you at all.
So you would rather work in an industry run by a bunch of bullies with good PR than do the right thing and take your chance now to plunge the knife in to their exposed underbelly and give it a good twist?
You have learned nothing and will continue to remain nothing unless you take the risk. They pushed you around in school and you let them so long as you had your refuge in video games. Now they have come for that too. Where will you run now? They will continue to seek out and destroy everything you had held dear.
There are some things worth fighting for and this is one of them. Even if it costs you your job, you tried to change things for the better and that will win you merit in the hearts and minds of those now embroiled in the great patriarchy wars.
Winston Churchill once said that all it takes for evil to triumph is for good to do nothing. Your silence right now is nothing. Try not to let it consume you.
>While there are no upvotes, the community laughing at your stupidity or ignorance is a major deterrent to be a clown. Same goes for tripfags, to the point where this exists:
fact: it doesn't work.
There is no upvote, but the simple smug feeling of seeing your post being replied by many, even just for ypurself make it all the same.
Attention whoring has always existed on 4chan even with anonymous names.
Banning shitposting exist as a rule precisely because mocking someoen for being stupid has never been a deterent enough on its own.
Not to mention, that "deterent " only apply to those who are bad at it. Competant attention whore will get 500 reply without even one calling him for it.
Also, there is finnaly the one who genuinly are "I am par of the clique now too? Look I am bashing the one you don't like, I am one of us, right guys, right?"
This happens everywhere. THe only thnig anonimitybring, is that if you make a fool of yourself, you can pretend none of it happened and that it wasn't you.
I hate this shit so much. I haven't personally experienced it professionally, as being in the medical field things can get isolated. But i've seen it happen to good buddies and recently broke up with a long term girlfriend because I was tired with how she treated my friends yet demanded absolute respect for her friends and everything they did. Long story short she basically embedded herself amongst my group of friends, and then tried to control everything. We're all friends since elementary school and play vidya together all the time and go out to drink. One of my friends became her own personal little white knight and they started spending a lot of time together. Shit hit the limit when one of us got deployed to Afghanistan, and she took every oppurtunity to tell me what a horrible person he is and if he dies it's his own fault. I got tired of it, was already miserable from her behavior, couldn't talk to her about anything because if I didn't take the blame no matter what then she'll just get angry, so I told her to pack her things and go away. Took a while and she got the cops involved making false claims, but in the end she got slapped with some fines and I had my apartment to myself.
Anyways, about a year ago I moved from Ambulance to Fire Department and I'm loving it. I've heard bad stories of bad companies, but usually once you go from somewhere like MedStar to your local Fire Department things are much safer. Your pay doesn't get messed with, your hours are more flexible, youre allowed to bring better equipment etc. I still have friends who are working in ER's or just contracted out to Hospitals and it's the same clique mentality over there. And not even with Doctors or Surgeons. It's the Nurses. You piss them off or not get on your knees and kiss their ass and they'll pull strings to either get you transferred to a shitty department or flag you with horrible reviews. Make the employer question your fortitude and reliability and get you suspended
I was once not only a member of a now major political party, I was even an representant and have participated in debates, on the news, stuff like that. The party I belonged to was the kind where if people found out about your membership you could pretty much kiss your career goodbye unless you were selfemployed or had a really good boss. Fortunately for me I was still not very well known, and most people aren't interested in politics so even though I had appeared on the news and all that it still took my own family over almost three years to find out about it. So that is the first lesson, you are always more anonymous than you think you are.
I left that party a long time ago because I was too radical. I am no longer politically active, but I will go back to that life someday, and I hang around mostly with people who are AND I help out during elections. If you speak the truth about your situation you risk your job and future career in as a dev. I risk going to jail, having my family terrorized, being attacked etc. But still I fight for what I believe in, because I refuse to just lie down and die. And I'm not alone. The nationalist you see out on the streets are in many cases dumbnuts without anything not worth sacrifizing. But there are lots of other people who are highly educated (researchers and lectors at universities, engineers etc), rich (old money or self made) or just normal people with a family they need to provide for. But even if we hide ourselves, we aren't silent and passive. In fact we are very active and are in many ways leading the fight.
So how do we do it? Well, its actually very simple.
Continued in the next post.
Also look at one thing that WW in the 90s did - they anchored stuff into culture and being well read was a pretty good thing when starting out doing oWoD. They actually expected the player to be a somewhat educated person.
In nWoD? I've never experienced that. No more references to old mythos, cultures, ubran mythos etc. it was oddly deattached with sort of a hugboxy outlandish feel to it.
it seems to me the root of this problem s the money, the 'video games as an industry' shit.
that's what got us where we are.
don't depend on selling a video game to feed yourself and then you are free of this shit, you don't need publicity from these cultists, you don't need to care about what they say or think or do.
the problem is you think that making videogames should be a paid job.
but maybe its that you want the money rather than the game, as though you think 'if i'm spending all this time making this game i supposedly really want to make, then i should get paid for it' , this is the attitude that has got us where we are, this is what EA has built itself on, this is what these websites (shitaku etc) are built on, a desire to get paid.
go work at mcdonalds and make the game in your spare time, it will be slower alright but you are totally free of these cultists.
but you won't, and this gets shouted down, you claim to love videogames and want to make them but somehow need to make a boatload of cash to motivate you. this is why it won't change, this is why it will carry on.
because the answer to the question , at the end of the day;
'why are you making this game?'
"to make money."
> THe only thnig anonimitybring, is that if you make a fool of yourself, you can pretend none of it happened and that it wasn't you.
wonderful, isn't it? your post being judged for its content rather than for who posted it?
Here, reverse image search and find out.
Well you better be ready, friend. This shit can't sustain itself for very much longer, and the ground is slowly but steadily shrinking underneath gatekeeper feet.
There are a shit ton more of us unknowns than there are "scene rockstars", and we WILL burn this motherfucker down. Bully cliques are historically doomed to fail every fucking time. Hope you don't find yourself "in" with them when the shoe finally drops.
I always thought the indie development scene would implode, especially after Kickstarter blew up. There are too many big yet untested personalities attached to projects nowadays. We all remember the Kojimas, Molyneuxs, Miyamotos, Cliffy Bs, and Schafers, but those guys became idols in the industry after making amazing games one after the other. People like Phil Fish and Zoe Quinn can become twitter famous before even finishing their games because "look guys, i r indie stickin to da man gibe mone plz". The cult of personality is killing the indie scene.
>People at the top are corrupt and shit up everything.
This is why I'm not going to feel bad when this world falls into ruin.
You're a goddamn idiot.
If you think a decent video game is just something you can shit out on the side, I'd like to see you do it. And if you think "you don't really need money, man" you're a delusional NEET or stupid teenager who has yet to have contact with reality. Fuck off.
more >How we faced our fears, built our own media channels that actually interest normal people, how we spread affect the debate and the media climate, and why we are growing (because we are growing, believe me when I say that).
rather than everything else for maximum video games.
you have to fight a movement with another movement, basically. all the devs who are tired of the cronyism in the field need to band together, just like zoe quinn and her clique did.
it would be hard at first but you have to keep fighting. hopefully one day things will get better.
doesn't stop the attnetion whorring though.
and it's not the quality of the post and mount of reply doesn't forcibly correlate.
But back to my original point. Having Zoe or Phil Fiish's clique browsing on 4chan and reporting bad things they have seen is in now ay different than 4channer browsing tumblr and twitter and screencapping them to post them on 4chan.
>I always thought the indie development scene would implode, especially after Kickstarter blew up. There are too many big yet untested personalities attached to projects nowadays. We all remember the Kojimas, Molyneuxs, Miyamotos, Cliffy Bs, and Schafers, but those guys became idols in the industry after making amazing games one after the other. People like Phil Fish and Zoe Quinn can become twitter famous before even finishing their games because "look guys, i r indie stickin to da man gibe mone plz". The cult of personality is killing the indie scene.
Really? The gaming press says its more vibrant than ever.
No, YOU don't understand
No matter how many devs you gather it will still be a subset of the ones that already exist and already have big network with connection to all the major 'journalism' outlets. It will inevitably be worse.
And I'm not even going into the inevitable demonization those people you gather will receive, or the nigh impossibility of identifying the good from the bad without opening yourself up to getting wrecked first.
And what the fuck is the public statement oging to be anyways? "So and so are BAD PEOPLE"? I'd love to hear what you think this will actually accomplish.
1. GET IN CONTACT WITH EACH OTHER! Stop being isolated! Talk to people in the same situation as you are, and never EVER be a defeatist.
2. When you have a circle of friends that you can trust, and always expand this circle, start to spread the word anonymously at first, that there is a problem going on. Just like what has happened here on 4chan and other sites. Somebody who is anonymous can't be attacked, only dismissed.
3. Make sure you can't be dismissed. How? Well its as easy as it is difficult. Start your own media channel. A simple blog is enough, where you report about this shit. But not only this, also other important gaming news so that people will have another reason to visit your blog, and so that it can't be completely dismissed. If the quality of your writing is high enough, people will seek you out. Don't do those tl:dr youtube rants and videos. Focus on short texts that grab peoples attention.
4. Encourage your friends to do the same. Some wont, some blogs will die (naturally), but now you have suddenly created a platform. Study other examples, like the nationalist movement or even better, the enemy. Take after what works.
There is no reason to give anything more than this. If you have the will, you will find your way. If not, well, don't blame me, only yourself.
Last but not least, why do you think that nationalist focus so much on PR and expousure? Why do we have so many authors? Why do we write so many books? Start so many media channels with the focus on news reporting? Because the one who controls the written words wins this game.
I'm not going to get too much into detail but I have many connections within the industry and in fear of losing my reputation as a game developer and overall publicity needed through those site I will say this
Many of the kickstarter projects you see end up becoming something entirely different in the final product
Obvious right ? Whether good or bad but hear me out
I will only mention one(of the many) games I saw turn into a near money laundering scheme , soul saga.
soul saga a game that has been a disaster since it was funded. From changing designs to the entire idea of the game. Sites like kotaku have people who are friends with developers like disastercake(soul saga). They do a few favors and done! Article written and money coming. If I mention anymore then surely they'll catch me. So I'll say this /v/ look deep into the kickstarter projects you see because chances are they're just looking for money through saps.
I know a indie dev that has practically threw away his original build of a game he was going to purpose on kickstarter to a more simpler on because it'll get more attraction from certain sites as told by his "connected" friend
Indiedevs on kickstarter are corrupt too who would have thought
you know in the good old days Worms was made by a guy on his amiga in bltz basic and then got published by team 17, he didn't have a kickstarter, he didn't need to be paid to write that code, draw those worms.
we will be very lucky indeed if EA and a $100m budget ever make another game that comes close to Worms.
you don't need money to make the game, you need money to eat, so get a normal job like everyone else.
Is Divinity: Original Sin part of this clique OP is talking about?
I'm wondering because I really enjoyed the game, and it didn't seem like it was a LOL INDIE GAME SO HIP, just simply an independently made game.
I'm going to go out on a limb and blame Indie Game: The Movie. It romanticized the struggle of indie developers and put a spotlight on the congealed mass of feces wearing hipster glasses that is named Phil Fish. People like Jon Blow and the Super Meat Boy duo were fine since they became decently big names after their games became hits on their own merits, but Phil Fish was pictured as this struggling artist fighting against the big bad evil publishers to get his vision realized. This gave him his popularity, which became his power.
This is right. You can't beat the media by making a "public statement". At maximum you may change things for a short while. But what you really need to do is replace the media with your own.
now that's a good point
I can only respond with an observation of reactions
4chan sees something from twitter that seems suspect and they call fake or at least look for context
twitter and tumblr see a cropped shot of one post, potentially edited, and go on a crusade without question
>he didn't have a kickstarter, he didn't need to be paid to write that code, draw those worms.
Beleive it or not, developing on the amiga take much less resource, time and energy then developping for modern platform.
Phil was making dumbass statements long before Indie Game: The Movie. I remember when it was announced Fez would be Xbox-exclusive, despire 100% of the people waiting for the game play (also) on PC. He then said PC's are for spreadsheets.
You can imagine how well that went over
I don't think so, Larian has made a lot of games, so they got the money to pay the bills independantly. They do still have to play by the general public's rules, as seen by the blog post one anon already posted. >>259743584
I agree wholeheartedly, yet It has become pretty clear at this point that the only people left with the will to wield said knife are the developers/other who are still on the outside of it looking in. The folk on the inside are too invested in their jolly caucus race to ever have the balls to make a stand, so you can't rely on them. There's the myriad of people who actually look up to those people and their practices (like if the scene had a "Hitler Youth", it would be them), and they are so ravenous to be accepted that they throw caution, pride and self-respect to the wind...so THOSE people are pretty much unreliable for the most part.
It really does land on the shoulders of everyone else who still cares about the direction things are going in. In my opinion, it's fairly simple: we just start building our own thing from scratch, try to keep it friendly and open and RESPONSIBLE, and just fucking ISLAND these current assholes eventually. You catch more bees with honey than with vinegar, and all they have to offer is fucking vinegar at this point
>Is Divinity: Original Sin part of this clique OP is talking about?
No, but their studio was founded in 1996. It's been a LONG struggle for those guys. And they came out on top. They're legit indie, not hipster indie.
>you know in the good old days Worms was made by a guy on his amiga in bltz basic
Indieshit garbage. Look, I'm /v/!
>he didn't need to be paid to write that code, draw those worms.
you mean those fucking consoles? with silky smooth inflated budgets ?
sure you won't get the next CoD or halo from a couple of guys coding in their spare time, but how is that a bad thing ? if you actually want more halo, cod and other console AAA shit then you are part of the problem.
>4chan sees something from twitter that seems suspect and they call fake or at least look for context
>twitter and tumblr see a cropped shot of one post, potentially edited, and go on a crusade without question
I'd say the one who suspect faking, just ignore the stuff.
Also, 4chan tend to be much more exposed to fake bullshit, it kind of increase sceptissism.
and you'll still see some fall for it.
As someone who wants to get into the industry, I beg you guys to find an outlet to get these experiences out there. I can't stand the idea that my success will hinge on being close to these disgusting people, and it frightens me that I'll be in your shoes one day and have my entire career dependent upon keeping the cult satisfied.
Like others have said, if even just two devs speak out about the corruption, it'll make a world of difference. You will never have a better chance to come clean than now.