After an extended period now playing this game I have concluded that I don't like it much. It's slippery and every character controls like a load of bricks. I sincerely hope Smash4U is as far from this as Sakman can possibly make it.
I saw 30 seconds of fighting after waiting 2 hours on 56k to see what the game was about.
Picked it up and I had the best game that I have ever played in my life.
It is like you are younger then 15 and never even played the 64 version of smash
Nah, neither of those things. Melee was more like 64 rebuilt from the ground up in an entirely different engine that didn't handle basic physics and momentum and collision the same so they had to make do with it.
No melee was pretty much a 60 fps version of 64 with a few new things added to the game that added to the complexity to the game that was being made.
At the time it is revolutionary.
to 14 year olds that only played brawl it is the worst thing on planet earth
It pretty much reads inputs before and after the optimal time which makes everything very lax, but very imprecise and can lead to unintentional actions. Like, in Melee you could run, jump, tap behind you, press B, and do a neutral B (like a Falco laser) behind you as you're jumping away. In Brawl, it's more annoying to do because the lax input buffer might detect the direction tab and B as a side special instead of a neutral one.
Brawl also has a frame delay. I forget how much, I think 2, which means no matter what every action you do is coming out 2 framers layer than it should. I have no idea why this was implemented. It, in combination with the input buffer, makes Brawl a sluggish game.
I don't like it compared to Brawl. I feel like I have more control over the character in brawl, but that's probably because I played Brawl more. I also love going really deep to chase people off-screen and I can't do that in Melee.
Slippery how? Unless you mean how you're turning, that's called either a pivot or a dash dance. If you dont turn correctly or arent fast enough you'll slide yes. That's more user error than the games issue itself, it's one of the most tight and responsive games in existence
Hey do you want to play me on melee netplay and find out?
I mean it gave the other person more of an option to get out of combos I guess. Which is a good change but honestly melee would be nothing without 64s guidance.
Pm is the easiest one out of melee 64 and brawl LEL.
Yeah you're right.
Project M > 64 > Brawl > Melee
I think there's very few people who prefer Melee/Project M and don't suck absolute shit at them and barely display any intermediate skills. They can't properly/don't know about DI, can barely follow up on their hits, can't deal with any sort of decent edge guarding.
Might as well play Brawl where you won't get killed at 50% because you suck shit at the game..
How convenient for you to hold an opinion so contrary to as many people as possible, and at such a time when said game is quite visible and beloved. It's almost like you're holding an incendiary opinion on purpose.
I'm a Meleefag and even I think you should kill yourself
Get the absolute fuck out Woolie.
I've been playing them all because of all the Smash 4 hype.
64,melee, brawl, project m.
Brawl is floaty, slow and clunky as fuck.
But Melee is slippery, too fast and too heavy.
64 feels perfect though, but it feels too primitive, not as much variety of abilities and effects but the speed and gravity and precision are perfect.
Project M is interesting. It's like a better Brawl in some ways.
Smash4 looks like a better Project M.
64 is like kendo, Melee is like fencing. Just depends which you like. I like the deliberation and powerful striking of 64 but others like the speed and precision of Melee.
Everyone should get along.
I dunno what Project M or Brawl are like because I've never played them.
P:M is lacking on the balance and polish department. I'm not hating on it but it does show that it's a fanmade patch of another game.
It's still amazing but Smash 4 looks overall better to me.
Mandatory post in every Smash Bros. Thread
We're going to compare Melee to Brawl, and find out WHY casuals in this thread are dead wrong.
Melee: Mario vs Falco. Even in Pools, the action is intense. Unlike in Brawl.
- Fast air movement, faster falling speed, multiple movement options such as wavedashing allow for freedom of movement
- L-Cancelling and adequate hitstun allow for combos, albeit harder to do than in 64
- Gameplay that rewards both relentless offense and calculated, brief defensive play that is exciting to watch
- Overly campy, defensive gameplay can be punished
Now let's look at Brawl. This shit-fest was a Winner's Finals match, by the way.
- Excessive zoning, camping due to DEFENSIVE GAMEPLAY being heavily rewarded, while OFFENSIVE GAMEPLAY is heavily punished(unless you're Metaknight)
- No L-Cancelling, no hitstun (immediate airdodges after getting hit), floaty physics, increased knockback on moves effectively removes combos from the game (no, doing an attack that has three hits and landing all three does not count as a combo), further hurting offensive gameplay
- Slow, campy, unexciting gameplay that is unsuited for spectators to watch
Bonus: The link I am about to put here is everything wrong with Brawl shown in a few minutes. It includes Scarflard getting salty.
All of Brawl's miscomings culminates into this.
Camping for a percentage lead until time runs out has become an actual tactic. Players look for one or two uncommitted slaps at each other before running off to their own side of the stage.
At the end, Diddy Kong wins, despite what the victory screen says.
When getting one LAST slap in is more important than eliminating the opponent, there is something wrong.
inb4 but t-t-those are glitches! Pic related, motherfucker.
brawl is nerf bats and helmets and suits of armors and your only allowed to hit your enemy one time every 10 seconds
ssb4 is going to be this but instead of the suit of armor its like normal clothing so the characters have almost good speed.
Yea man fucking Melee fags wearing nostalgia glasses for 13 years. Fucking band wagoners also, Melee is thriving while Brawl is dying just because evo. fuicking band wagon
Brawl being so floaty it made attacking hard, or tourneyfags being tryhard scum that use cheap tactics don't change the fact that Melee turned into shit when people start l cancelling, wavedashing and abusing all those other advanced techniques.
Defending those techniques is just a sad attempt at justifying themselves from the tournneyfags that are still crying because an obviously game breaking unintended mechanic was removed from the game.
Wavedashing is never ever coming back because it was not intended.
The only reason it existed is that Sakurai didn't think it would be used so he didn't invest time and resources to implement an artificial limit to the amount of momentum that could be transferred to horizontal movement from the air and the GC couldn't manage balance patches.
Otherwise a patch would have taken care of it as soon as it became an issue.
You know it's true play Melee again it doesn't do Smash justice. Brawl was pretty much Melee but improved and no i'm not baiting. I played 64 first then Melee then Brawl, and Brawl is pretty much just more of what you had before, but better. It's fun, it can be plenty competitive, and at the same time newcomers can at least TRY and play and learn the mechanics a little easier.
3.5 is going to be a entirely new game.
I hope you guys main at least 3 characters because at least one of them is going to get completely fucked.
Also now is a good time to pick up ganondorf
That's not enough to say 4 is a better P:M, because basically 4 is quite like brawl with small tweaks for what I have seen. Plus the balancing was quite horrible in every smash, recoveries appart i feel like PM is the most balanced at least characterwise.
>Brawl is pretty much just more of what you had before, but better.
Also thanks for giving me a gigantic opinion that means absolutely fucking nothing.
People have been playing melee for 13 fucking years.
People have clearly shown that Brawl is simply Melee, but objectively worse.
I like Brawl and Project M. I'd like Project M more if I didn't have to do so much just to be decent at it. L cancelling is just tedious. Wave dashing is slightly better, but not by much.
>load of bricks
I literally cannot think of a single game that gives players more control over their character than Melee
These are all the possible characters for Project M.
Select five, and say why for each one.
Brawl made attacking hard in general, it's a mix of many things that buffed defense and made offense worse like buffs to shields or making control in the air worse and some offensive abilities were nerfed all over the place.
>mfw I love every single Smash game, including Brawl and PM, and I can't wait for Smash 4
I guess i'm just a raging casual faggot.
Pichu Bros, because it's a necessary buff for Pichu and you can play as solo pichu by holding down R.
Gray Fox, because Metal Gear needs another rep and who better to be added?
Isaac, because a magic user is what PM needs.
Lyn, because I know it's going to happen no matter what.
Sukapon, because we need another retro character.
What could they possibly nerf? He's not topping the tier lists anytime soon.
>play Melee again it doesn't do Smash justice
nigger I played Melee today
the only people who think Brawl is more fun than Melee (or PM, or 64) are people who are too shit at the game to appreciate how much better Melee is. That sounds like bait, or trolling, but it's actually true
Yea same but I still like Brawl just a little more.
Like before the rampant fanboys attack me here I just find it more fun and easier to control. Yes it's floaty but I find it more easy and less stressful that way, and if I WANT to make Brawl stressful and challenging, I can do that. I reason I like Brawl more than Melee is because I have more options to play, and more ways to play, and more content. Yes on a competitive level im sure Melee is better I guess, but I always found Brawl made for a more competitive fight as the defense buffs and offense nerfs and such made kills more justified because you had to damage the opponent a good amount before the finishing blow.
Maybe I'm just a fag, I don't know, I just like Brawl more than Melee for a lot of different things and it feels like they put the most heart into Brawl.
crazy shit's been happening in melee, pikachu beating fox, yoshi beating fox / sheik, dr. pp being the most beast falco ever
brawl players actually look worse than the year the game came out LOL
The hyper defensive play is really only apparent at high levels, which barely anyone here is at. I play offensively at all times with my friends and we have fun. I do plenty of combos at low percent and high percents.
Just because the pros play one way doesn't mean it's the only way to play.
But in this case we're talking about gameplay techniques that didn't interact equally with all characters, so they further made the balance even worse.
They break the purpose of the game, which was to make a type of fighting game that could be approached by everyone.
They mess with the pacing of the combat by giving players tools the combat was not intended to have.
Yes because brawl isn't a game that evolves over time, unlike Melee that still makes changes on tierlists because of newfounds things (Yoshi's parry for example), it changes metagame and everyone evolves, you get the idea
>I do plenty of combos at low percent and high percents.
I don't think I've seen a Brawl combo in my life that wasn't just utilts chained together or MK uairing someone off the screen
This isn't even close to true. Advanced techniques benefit every character equally some characters like Luigi have a longer wavedash than others but you have to know how and when to use it.
Yoshi's parries aren't exactly new, but they were disregarded for a long time because the tech skill required to pull them off consistently was supposedly too high for practical purposes.
That is, until aMSa made his way to the United States.
>Plusle & Minun as a Pichu Climbers character with Pichu playable as a hold R easter egg like Sopo
>Isaac for Golden Sun representation and a cool potential moveset
>Black Shadow because I like the Black Shadow gets Ganondorf's moveset and Ganondorf gets a new moveset that matches his character better idea
>Midna because Midna with Wolf Link would be a cool playstyle imo and quadruped characters in fighting games are neat
>But in this case we're talking about gameplay techniques that didn't interact equally with all characters, so they further made the balance even worse.
Neither does any other move each character has. They didn't make balance worse, they made balance better. Characters like Ice Climbers and Luigi would be god awful without wavedashing but are improved because of it, while characters like Peach don't use it and don't need it.
>They break the purpose of the game, which was to make a type of fighting game that could be approached by everyone.
Nigga wavedashing isn't hard. If it was in the manual you wouldn't even be complaining. It's simplistic shit and it's easier than the most basic "traditional" fighting game inputs.
>They mess with the pacing of the combat by giving players tools the combat was not intended to have.
It wasn't that the tech skill required was high it's that it was a lot of effort to master for little reward.
Similar to Pikachu. Why the fuck would I learn gimmicky shit like Pikachu or Yoshi when I can just pick up a spacie that's been figured out for years like literally everybody else?
Fox's fair > uair
Fox's dair > anything
Marth's fair > fair > fsmash
Luigi's dthrow > uair > nair
Luigi's jab > upB
Peach's dair > anything
Falco's dthrow > dair
Obviously not to the extent of Melee but they are still present.
It's pointlessly difficult to use, which goes against the overall style of the series which is to make things simple.
Being in the manual would not change that.
And even if wave dashing was assigned a button to automatically do it, it would still be unbalanced and it would still be changing the dynamics of the combat. It changes movement, approaches, dodging, attacking, viable attacks at any given time, the importance of certain offensive and defensive abilities, etc.
Smash with advanced techniques is simply not smash, it's something else.
You gotta hand it to the Smash competitive players. Melee players, specifically.
They're a group of good people that enjoyed playing the game fast, and got the attention of Sakurai. They got his attention and he didn't like what he saw. Because of them, Brawl changed everything and it even had random tripping, as if punishing players for wanting to dash constantly.
Think about that for a second. A couple thousand people basically made Sakurai lose his fucking shit SO HARD that he opted to change the entire game physics, gimp the mobility, nerf everything and casualize it to fuck... because he was scared that these players would defeat less skilled players.
In what other series has this ever happened? And the crazy part is that Sakurai has somehow persuaded the majority to go against the competitive players. In that recent interview Sakurai pretty much admitted that he wanted a more casual audience, something that the people of /v/ hate to hear... yet everyone supports him because "it's just a party game".
This entire thing is pretty insane when you think about it. Then you get response from the competitive scene with things like Brawl mods, Project M being the big one. It's like a really messed up cold war that has been going on for years now. It's pretty neat.
>mfw ever Smash thread comes down to Melee vs Brawl arguing while I just chill on master race 64
>all of those can be escaped with smash DI
i think brawl is shit
but that doesnt mean its not a combo, thats what makes smash bros great, no diala combos
>Fox's dair > anything
cant the other people just hold shield and the second move wont hit
wavedashing is only really good for a few characters like luigi / marth
for a lot it's only used to get down on platforms or to recover from ledges more quickly...more efficient with falcon, fox, peach and most others to just crouch cancel a dash instead of wavedash
I realize that, but bringing up TAS isn't the greatest counterpoint since no human can possibly operate at that speed in actual play. It would be better to bring up a video of two people actually playing and showing all combos being shut down by smash DI.
as if even the most casual fucking casual would be able to enjoy Brawl and not Melee
it's not like 6 year old Jimmy is going to get mad because his 9 year old brother fucking wavedash chainshined him off of FD, he's going to get mad because he died when Yoshi put him in an egg and laid him off the stage or something retarded like that. I have no idea how Sakurai thought people being good at the game affected low-level play in any way
The Brawl scene was extremely forced everywhere. Melee players weren't as active as they are now. Most of them stopped playing because they hated Brawl and had nowhere else to go play.
I don't like Shielding in smash. It's unbalanced, and it changes the dynamics of the combat. It changes movement, appraoches, dodghing, attacking, viable attacks at any given time, the importance of certain offensive and defensive abilities, etc.
Smash with shield is simply not smash, it's something ele
Since they could have been interesting newcomers but lost their chance:
Takamaru (I would like swordsmen with projectiles other than Link)
Goroh, an F-Zero rep we won't get this time, with nice moveset concepts
>but muh Falcondorf
google "Triforce Ganon"
Red, cause we'll never get a playable trainer and he could use items as attacks.
Jill, again because it would most likely never happen, it would be hard to created tought.
When I play with my casual friends in Melee or PM, 8 times out of 10, when I knock them off at 40-60% they don't get back on. 3 times out of 10 if I don't guard the edge.
Recovering is a pain in the ass. With Brawl even the shittiest shitter that can press Up + B will live to a 100%.
No it doesn't. It removes technical skill by forcing you to be slower in order to achieve the desired string of inputs. Which is counter intuitive to a game that revolves around who can hit the other player enough times the quickest.
Yeah it is easy but doing it right is hard.
Compare it to any normal action in smash.
Tilt and press A
Tilt and press A fast.
It's all extremely intuitive.
The game doesn't even feature more than 2 buttons for regular attacks.
Everything about smash was built with intuitive play in mind, love it or hate it, that's how the game is built to be.
Wavedashing requires practice to master properly. So difficulty wise even if it is not difficult it conflicts with everything else in the game.
The things you mention weren't meant to be done that easily though. So that right there is among the ways it changes the dynamics of combat.
>wavedashing is only really good for a few characters like luigi / marth
>Compare it to any normal action in Smash
To jump I press the jump button.
To jump and air dodge I press the jump button followed by the air dodge button.
To wavedash I press the jump button and then I press the air dodge button while moving toward the ground.
Wave dashing is air-dodging (shield + direction) into a platform. That's not even remotely difficult to do. If you want to complain about tech being obtuse, complain about shield dropping.
God forbid Smash to have a skill ceiling.
I guess you just don't get it.
It's a mix of jumping, shielding, going down but not straight down and with a perfect timing of all 3 things only to do the wave dashing, which is to move forward.
Compare it to rolling around. Which only requires pressing shield and any direction.
It's just not the same kind of thing.
It's not even intuitive because from any common sense point of view it doesn't make sense at all to perform a dodge against the ground to somehow slide around.
If they actually wanted to embrace Wavedashing the first thing they'd do is assign a button to it and make it something like dodging or rolling, press wavedash button and press direction.
Not counting all the balance and gameplay they would have to change of course, that would come second.
What the fuck mate. Don'y you like variety, wave dashing presented players with a new movement option that you could use in substitute for dodges, as the dodge left you wide open at the end of it but gave you invincibility, while wave dashing allowed you to make actions during it but at the cost of being vulnerable throughout. Its perfectly balanced in its the first advanced technique anyone learns.
>my fucking face when smashshitters claim their game is harder to play than street fighter/kof
>MFW when Street Fighter/KOF players pretend Smash isn't hard despite not having any experiance
Because good people know how to consistently get the most mileage out of every input they do. In that 10 second clip there is no movement wasted and everything done has a purpose.
It's logical from a game mechanics point of view but not intuitive from a gameplay point of view.
Like if you wanted to move forward in a sliding fashion normally, in any random game, would dodging to the ground be the first thing you try?
I highly doubt so.
Wrong how? Morally, ethically? It's not wrong.
But if the being intuitive is part of the design goals behind smash bros, and we know it is, then wavedashing as it existed in melee would be a failure in that purpose.
That still doesn't make it nearly as intuitive as everything else in smash.
Even the strength of attacks is intuitive.
A tap for a quick weak attack, a tilt for a stronger attack and a smash for the strongest attacks.
Pressing the shield button harder makes the shield stronger.
Every character's moves are similar in style, they all follow the same commands.
Everything about smash is extremely intuitive and immediately natural to figure out through basic instinct.
Nothing takes more than one timed command.
One button, maybe a direction, always equals an action.
Wavedashing requires at least 2.
No ability requires as much timing either, they can all be executed with either a simple press, a tilt or a fast smash without failure while wavedashing requires a fine timing to even be used.
It just doesn't fit with anything else in the game, it should be clear why Sakurai said something about the gap between pro players and casual players becoming too big when he discussed removing it.
You really must know very little about Melee tech if you think Wavedashing is the most finicky tech to pull off.
I'm not even surprised /v/ doesn't know the difference. You'd think that the people who play Smash and Project M would be nintendo fanatics, but they don't know shit about anything other than wavedashing.
Seriously, what would they even do to his recovery? Nigga dies at 20%
I just know they're gonna shit on my main (zard). I'm not sure what they could do beyond making Fly absolutely useless for recovery though.
The best players will always win, reducing the gap doesn't mean changing that. But it meant giving homogenizing the experience a bit. Things like wavedashing changed the game a lot, they made that gap something that wasn't purely built on the skill of the players but also the toolkits they were using, and in this case we are talking about a tool that was not accessible to a lot of people.
And that's very normal for fighting games but remember that smash was built to be a fighting game that didn't do that kind of things. It didn't require memorizing a combination or training to nail timing right to perform any attack or move intentionally so casuals and pros would at least fight with the same set of tools.
I'm only talking about wavedashing because it's the most popular topic but the same applies to other stuff like l cancelling that also got removed.
But yeah I am not really that into smash, but I do think I understand all the game design stuff Sakurai was trying to do with the game.
Wobbles is my nigga.
I don't even think Sakurai intentionally gimping the game succeeded at decreasing the skill level, take something like tripping for example. A casual player might like like one smash attack off of it but a good player would probably use that opportunity to chaingrab them to death. Brawl arguably has even more advanced tech and exploits used in competitive play than Melee, a lot of which are way more esoteric than wavedashing.
I know some of the guys at my local barely even play vidya outside of smash. Fighting games are kind of their own little world, and smash even more so.
Seeing wobbles play Ice Climbers at my local last week made me want to pick them up. He did some cool shit. Maybe in PM, even. At least I won't have to worry about nerfs if I do.
They're such a bitch to get into though.
>youtube link with no time stamp
They're COMPLETELY DIFFERENT characters, who happen to be the same species. I want to know what we're getting, and I'd expect people who love Smash to love Nintendo's franchises as much as I do. But as >>258609292 stated, you guy's don't know shit about Nintendo outside of Smash. Now all the Smash 4 hate makes sense...
>mfw my friend thinks every single competitive game sucks because he sucks at it
>I'm forced to play fucking D3 with him and watch as he dies in T1 rifts
anyone else having friends who just fucking suck at games?
"Pichu Bros" is just what people call a theoretical Pichu duo that works similar to Ice Climbers. There is no telling whether they will be the Pichu Bros from the anime, the notched-ear/normal Pichu combination, or anything else. You're nitpicking about something that as of right now doesn't even exist.
>There is no telling whether they will be the Pichu Bros from the anime, the notched-ear/normal Pichu combination, or anything else.
And beyond that no one fucking cares
I love F-Zero, and I love Smash. I don't give a fuck that Smash Falcon has fuck all to do with the F-Zero Falcon. And god knows that I don't care how much FE faggots hate Roy.
Because otherwise you'd do nothing but put up projectile walls all day and it'd be boring as shit.
This kind of shit fills me with rage. I don't even Melee competitively, but Sakurai intentionally made the game shittier. He fucked up the gameplay ON PURPOSE. That is absolutely inexcusable.
I can't agree with you more.
The "You can't be a true Smash fan without being a true Nintendo fan" crowd is ridiculous, and it's annoying that there is enough of them to be able to call them a crowd.
Nintendo is such a large company and their IPs are incredibly different. So different that the vast majority of them don't appeal to me at all. Does that mean I shouldn't enjoy Smash because I have never played or wanted to play Fire Emblem or Animal Crossing?
Naturally. If you aren't interested in a SoL simulator, turnbased strategy, high paced racing, platforming, AND adventure games you clearly don't DESERVE to play Smash
Now it makes sense why Smash threads are nothing but shitposting and complaining. I fucking love Smash not only because it's a great game series with great gameplay, but the fact that it introduced me to Nintendo beyond Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon. I didn't know who Kirby, Samus, or Fox McCloud was in 1999. Playing Smash has led me to play so many other games, and it's been a fucking ride. That's why Smash is my favorite Smash series. All you see is a normal fighting game. I never took the "just go play street fighter" fags seriously until now, they were right all along. I don't have an insult to call you, so I'm just going to refer to you as a normalfags or plebs. Fucking Meleefags, killing the hype and ruining Melee for everybody.
I like all of them, including mods like PM and Brawl Minus.
The only thing that bothers me is when someone says Melee is better because it has a higher skill ceiling/takes more skill/because advanced tech is better and they're shitty at the game anyway.
Also people who say Smash isn't a fighting game. It clearly is. Get over yourselves.
>getting this mad because someone doesn't give a shit about the pokemon anime
Holy shit you are incredible
I've owned every nintendo system sans the virtua boy and I was well familiar with every character in 64 when I first played it. Get over yourself. Not everyone has to go full autism over Nintendo's entire library like you. They can get just as much enjoyment out of the game as you do, possibly even more. Does this upset you?
It never made sense to me why Smash fans are so divided until now, because the very reason they love Smash is fundamentally different. While I'm on both sides, you guys clearly missed a huge point in Smash. What did you think the all the trophies, where the stages are based off, and all star cast were about? Wavedashing and muh advanced mechanics? Curbstomping "noobs" is fine and dandy, but you can do that in almost any competitive game. Smash is special. And it doesn't upset me, I'm just disappointed. Because Smash is great, but most faggots just don't get it. And when it comes to enjoyment out of Smash, I'd say I won there. Smash brought me to enjoy so many games, while I never stopped playing any Smash game. All you seem to enjoy is Melee and Project M. Maybe 64 but only if zero to death combos are involved.
I enjoy Smash the same reason I enjoy Mario or Pokemon or any other Nintendo series, hell any other video game series in general, because the games are fun to play.
I'm responding to bait, aren't I?
How the fuck does Popo get to the top platform that quick? I sort of understand most of that combo as just ridiculously skilled desync shenanigans but I have no fucking clue how he got up there that quick, that was like Falco's full hop wtf
I actually have played Fire Emblem. Not a fan. It was an example man. Like why would you expect a Pokemon fan to like F-Zero? Because they're both Nintendo games and both represented in Smash?
This anon fucking gets it. From a casual stand point, Brawl is smoother and easier to control. Casuals don't care about falling like bricks or sliding off stages, they just want fun. That's what Brawl is at it's core.
Melee is fun to competitive players, which is understandable. What grinds my gears is when fags try to push their obsession with Melee into others. Not everyone does this, but those few asses that do help divide the community.
Ignore trolls, play whatever you prefer and don't be an ass about it.
He starts his jump sooner than you think he does. Like, when Nana starts her throw. You just can't tell because Shiek is in the way for part of it so it looks like he teleported.
When did I say anything about Brawl taking out "advanced mechanics"? And stop bitching, 64 didn't have Melee's advanced mechanics, but people who like 64 the most aren't faggots who whine constantly about how the sequel mixed things up, nor did they expect Brawl to be Melee 2.0.
I enjoy Smash primarily because of its unique mechanics and gameplay that I cant get from any other game. If it had generic wire-frames instead of Nintendo characters I would still enjoy it though it wouldn't have the same immediate appeal to me. I'm sorry that you're so narrow-minded that you can't accept other people having different opinions.
FUCKING WHEN GOD DAMNIT
I JUST WON A TOURNAMENT AS PICHU IN MELEE TODAY
I NEED MY FUCKING PICHU FIX
Because everything in Melee was either a tweak, like reducing hitlag and nerfing Z-cancelling, or a straight upgrade
Meanwhile Brawl downgraded many things from Melee; it doesn't even character-specific BtT stages for heavens sake
>It has an All-Star cast from Nintendo titles, and celebrates Nintendo's history!
>IT MUST BE ADVERTISING, SMASH IS JUST AN ADVERTISEMENT SANS THE GAMEPLAY
You see, I play Marvel vs. Capcom, too. And nobody would say that about MvC or any other crossover game. It's like saying "The Avengers" was just an advertisement for upcoming Marvel flicks. Damn, you faggots are terrible.
I semi-agree. Smash Bros has a charm to it that if any other character roster was developed but everyone had the same moveset, it'd kinda be boring.
At the same time, however, the gameplay > cosmetics always so fuck off. A videogame that sacrifices ANYTHING for fun, Story, Satire, social commentary, push an agenda, etcetera is AUTOMATICALLY SHIT
You had a point until the strawman "STOP HAVING DIFFERENT OPINIONS THAN ME" comment. I wouldn't enjoy Smash without the Nintendo characters, I never would have picked it up in the first place. I don't mind loving Smash for the gameplay, I just hate you faggots because all you do is complain that the new game doesn't play like Melee and try to ruin the hype for everybody else. And you are so self righteous about it, step off your fucking pedestal. "Obviously I'm narrow minded", you're such an asshole.
>the very reason they love Smash is fundamentally different
>you guys clearly missed a huge point in Smash
Sure sounds like some pissy fuck whining that people view Smash Bros. as a game and not just a glorified compendium of Nintendo fanservice.
Hate to say it, but since Robin got confirmed, I doubt there's any chance we'll see Isaac getting in. They'd both be characters using a mix of magic and swordplay, and if I recall correctly, Isaac's Japanese name in the Golden Sun games was also Robin, so they'd be a bit too "repetitive", you could say. Would've MUCH rather seen Isaac than Robin though, I've wanted him in since before Brawl, and not just as some fucking assist trophy bullshit.
It's only a downgrade because you personally didn't like the change. Many other people either did like the change, weren't involved enough in the mechanics to notice, or actually decided to adapt to a new game. Instead of complaing about it for 6 years and assuming the next game must be Brawl 2.0, and calling Sakurai the "George Lucas of "Gaming"".
>I just hate you faggots because all you do is complain that the new game doesn't play like Melee and try to ruin the hype for everybody else
how dare people criticize a game I like!
>And you are so self righteous about it, step off your fucking pedestal.
He says, with complete sincerity, as he unironically proclaims himself a superior and righteous human being for being able to identify the difference between two obscure characters from the pokemon anime that not even your average pokemon fan gives a flying fuck about.
Because otherwise some team could go 2 falcos and just spam lasers without worrying about their team mate and stunlock the enemy team. Additionally it opens up strategies like hitting your ally upwards when they are helpless offstage, or jabbing them to get them out of sleep or stun or recovery.
Instead of just making a wall of hitboxes, you need to consider your team mate's position and what they are doing more carefully to be successful.
Assuming they actually are. All we have to go on is that one leak, which, as with all leaks, is of dubious credibility.
I personally hope they don't add more characters and focus on balancing the existing ones.
>straight upgrade from 64
Get your head out of your arse, Melee was a physics clusterfuck and a side grade at best. No doubt the thought process Sakurai went through when he kept wavedashing mechanics was the same thought process he went through when he kept tripping in Brawl.
Please tell me how things like mandatory frame delay on every input and removing momentum from jumping are objectively an improvement.
>actually decided to adapt to a new game
Why the fuck should they adapt to something that they don't like? Mew2king is one of the world champions of Brawl despite despising the game and admitting he only plays it for money so clearly it's not like Melee players can't adapt.
>It's like saying "The Avengers" was just an advertisement for upcoming Marvel flicks
It basically was, since it was a shitty movie. Almost as boring as Thor. Now that was a real piece of shit
What bothers me about anti-Meleefags is that because some people take Melee more seriously than others they act like the game wasn't a perfectly fine party game as well. I loved Melee for years and didn't think anything of a competitive scene, I just played it with friends.
You fuckers act like one or some of your group went and got good at the game and that just ruined Melee for you.
I never claimed to be superior or even good, I just called you guys faggots for being the poison that makes the Smash community so shitty because you missed a huge point of the series and latched on to the other huge point. And unlike you, the people who are casual and only play because they love Nintendo don't complain for 6 years (and counting) about changes in gameplay, as if Sakurai broke into your house an raped you mom after breaking your Melee disc in half.
>You had a point until the strawman "STOP HAVING DIFFERENT OPINIONS THAN ME" comment
>I just hate you faggots because all you do is complain that the new game doesn't play like Melee and try to ruin the hype for everybody else.
Am I the only one who appreciates the irony here?
>barely any combos
>no momentum from dashing when you jump
>neutered Event Matches, BtT, and other 1-player modes in favor of a far shittier adventure mode
>removed wall-grapples in favor of ledge grapples because we're apparently too stupid to aim for the ledge
There you go, a few downgrades that you absolutely can not argue.
Melee added side specials, more throws, pummeling, ability to escape grabs, airdodging, sidestepping, walljumping, wall teching, balanced shields to make defense more viable but not overpowering, and added DI which made combos less guaranteed.
I don't see what's so bad about this. It makes the game feel so much smoother and nearly every fighting game has it.
>random input lag
This one isn't even true.
>This one isn't even true.
But it totally
Project M developers even fucking confirmed it. Brawl has a randomized 0-2 frame input lag that, again, is completely random.
I don't hate Meleefags because they love Melee. I love Melee just as much, hell, I think the gameplay is better than Brawl's, too. But the difference between me and an Meleefag is that I'm not a faggot. I don't complain that the new game doesn't play like Melee and try to ruin the hype for everybody else. Instead I get psyched because I love Smash Bros. It's not even about opinions.
No, you're just not allowed to moan and bitch about it, and go into thread specifically to stir up some shit about how the game will be complete shit because it doesn't have Melee's mechanics, thus making it "Brawl 2.0". Your opinion is fine, but the fact that you want to ruin Brawl and Smash 4 for everybody else because it's not "muh Melee" makes you a faggot.
Frame buffering is only good if you are some retard that just spams moves at random. If you want to put some actual finesse into your moves then it does nothing but get in your way.
This "Meleefag" is a strawman. It doesn't exist. It's a product of your own mind. No one in this thread is doing the things you are talking about.
The irony is that you accused that other anon of creating a strawman to represent your position when that's literally what you've been doing throughout the course of this entire thread, including the section I quoted.
>you're not allowed to post about it if you don't like it!
Leaving aside that no matter what tourneyfags actually do, someone will post in your thread because it clearly makes you mad - are you even on the same fucking board I am? Where is this magical /v/ wonderland where there are only positive threads? I wish I could move there, then we could maybe have PM threads without the shitposting patrol about.
So just because the game isn't tailored to you and your kind makes it low key?
I never said anything about being a "TRUE FAN", and I never said that you being a faggot makes you inferior to me. I'm just making the clear observation that you're a faggot, as are all the people who like to moan and whine and try to stir up shit for 6 years because Sakurai tried to appeal to a new demographic, just like he did when he made the jump from 64 to Melee.
So you're saying it should be more like Melee? Because it's not like Brawl, it doesn't even have tripping. It's a lot more like 64 but balanced enough so it doesn't have zero to death combos. But no, playing Smash like most people do makes it Brawl. Remember when you played Melee before you became "competitive"? It plays like that.
I was in it, it was pretty nice. Not at all typical though.
>I never said anything about being a "TRUE FAN"
>Instead I get psyched because I love Smash Bros. It's not even about opinions.
>I never said that you being a faggot makes you inferior to me. I'm just making the clear observation that you're a faggot
I'm an honestly concerned for you at this point. You apparently have some sort of disability where you're compelled to lie compulsively. Or maybe you just don't know the meaning of the words you use? You're a strange one.
Frame buffering doesn't work in smash.
There is too much going on, in a traditional fighting game if you hit with X move, you know that your opponent will be in A seconds of hitstun, so you can quickly use Y move that you know is a followup.
In smash, you have to take into consideration %s, DI, SDI, and then you actually have to follow up with some jumping/more advanced movement. It just doesn't work. It ends up making your fuck up more than anything else.
Where the fuck did people get this idea that Smash 4 = 64 from? I hear people (mostly anti-Meleefags) parrot this all the time but I've never seen anyone actually explain how Smash 4 is like 64, and no credible source that I've seen has ever likened Smash 4 to 64.
It's because the game is visibly nothing like Melee, and they don't want to associate with Brawl which they know they can't really defend. So they go for 64, because it's a decent game and people like it.
So apparently you were doing zero to death combos the moment you picked up the controller after turning the game on for the first time? It's like saying Melee is unplayable without wavedashing.
You can do that in Brawl, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it be in between Brawl and Melee in combo potential. It doesn't need to have Melee's exact combo system or 64's zero to death combos.
Throws do seem to be more powerful, but even that's not across the board. Mario's back throw in particular seemed very nerfed. I remember that it failed to kill or even get near the blast zone at 150% near the ledge.
Input buffering rather.
Being able to input your next moves for a brief moment while your currents move animations are still playing you instantly do your next move the second you revert back to a neutral non-attacking animation.
In my opinion melee is just more offensive, while brawl is more defensive.
While melee is fast and combos can be executed nicely, defensive play doesnt offer as much as offensive play, thus every match in melee becomes a jumping and wavedashing shitfest without the players concerned about their positioning.Guarding in melee is quite nonexistent too.
In the other hand brawl rewards defensive play more than offensive play because of the characters not moving as fast in melee and wavedashing is gone.This kind of gameplay enables strategical play, but it also enables camping or extreme zoning thus making the game quite boring.
But I think this kind of gameplay only applies to some characters.
here is an offensive brawl match :
here is a defensive? melee match :
>It's not like Melee
>They don't want to associate it with anti christ Brawl
>But it's not Melee, so it's shit, and they say it's like 64 because people like it
People like Brawl, you know. It sold so well, it's crazy. Sold better than Melee, your "superior" game, by a long shot. And, again, it looks a lot like 64 without zero to death faggotry, which you cannot see because that's all you see in 64.
>You can do that in Brawl
Hardly. Hitstun's a joke and it's possible to air dodge after 13 frames no matter how much hit stun you've sustained. This makes followups difficult anywhere beyond 20% and it's difficult to pull off "true combos" like in Melee and 64.
64's meta is defined by the 0-to-death combos. Much like how Melee's defined by its fast pace and how Brawl's defined by its safe, campy playstyle. People fear that the game will be too safe and will reward the defensive playstyle that Brawl encourages, which is dull as hell to watch and even less entertaining to play.
But it doesn't work like that at all. It's only stick movements, like if I connected a low medium kick with Sakura on USF4 and was buffering the shouoken movement, I can just hit jab and it will do the combo.
It's just called buffering and doesn't function at all how you described.
>thus every match in melee becomes a jumping and wavedashing shitfest without the players concerned about their positioning.
You are so full of shit I'm not even sure where to begin
Do you even know what spacing means?
>every match in melee becomes a jumping and wavedashing shitfest without the players concerned about their positioning
Spacing is incredibly important in Melee, especially for characters like Marth.
>arguing about the usefulness of buffering when you don't even play the game.
Frame buffering is important in high-level Brawl. Without it certain chain grabs, punishes, and techniques aren't even possible.
>every match in melee becomes a jumping and wavedashing shitfest without the players concerned about their positioning
I remember that the game isn't out yet and in the E3 demo, hitstun varies a lot and are non-existent on some moves, which suggest that they're still balancing it. I also remember that some characters, mostly on the 3DS version like Sheik, play more like Melee while most of the characters on the Wii U play more like Brawl, which suggest that they're still balancing it. I also remember that they were actively taking feedback at E3, which suggest that they're still balancing it.
>b-but the demo should be really similar to the release version
Then you obviously don't remember Brawl's demo, where L cancelling was in but was removed for Brawl's release.
>And, again, it looks a lot like 64 without zero to death faggotry, which you cannot see because that's all you see in 64.
If that's all you see in 64 and Smash 4 doesn't have it then how the fuck are they even comparable?
>every match in melee
Even if you were only speaking about some characters, "a jumping and wavedashing shitfest without the players concerned about their positioning" is literally never a thing in high level Melee. Anyone who neglects spacing gets bodied.
You see, this is the only well thought out criticism so far in this thread, which isn't just angry shitposting bashing a game because it doesn't appeal directly to them. I agree, I prefer Melee, but I also think 64 is a lot more fun without the zero to death meta game. I think you're being a little too pessimistic about 4 considering the game has a lot more to be discovered, and is designed by the very man who designed Melee to be exactly what he wanted it to be, and then designed Brawl to be what he wanted to be for the people who were neglected in Melee. Obviously, he wants it to be both offense and defense oriented. Sakurai made one of your favorite games, and he knows what he's doing. At the very least, give it a real chance. Not a "cautiously pessimistic" chance.
Dude, you ever notice people dash dancing around like crazy?
That's defensive play, trying to bait out attacks that they can then avoid and punish.
Dash dancing is happening ALL the time.
Everyone assumes you know that shit already nigger. What the fuck do you think we're talking about when we say Brawl's defensive?
This is entry level shit you need to know to even be having this conversation. It's been said a thousand times, stop acting like this is a fucking stunning revelation.
> Sakurai made one of your favorite games, and he knows what he's doing. At the very least, give it a real chance. Not a "cautiously pessimistic" chance.
He also hates me for playing a way he apparently didn't intend. He also said I'm not the audience he's aiming for. Why the fuck does it DESERVE more than a "cautiously pessimistic" chance?
It certainly doesn't.
>Sakurai made one of your favorite games, and he knows what he's doing. At the very least, give it a real chance. Not a "cautiously pessimistic" chance.
Nigga. If the chef at the restaurant I had been going to for years and loved suddenly started serving shit I'm not coming back.
Lack of wavedashing, game speed between Brawl and Melee, wrack up the damge with attacks while dodging, blocking, and punishing your opponents so you can smash them into the distance. All while trying to knock them off the stage and get a KO. It's basically Smash without all the game by game bullshit, until people find more exploits to latch on to. Hopefully they won't since Namco is helping out with the game balance, for not just the mechanics but also character balance.
Reading comprehension has failed you. I never said that's all I saw in 64. quite the opposite.
>If the chef at the restaurant I had been going to for years and loved suddenly started serving food I didn't like to new people who love it while my old favorites are on the menu any time ready to order I'm not coming back.
Mine is much more accurate.
So it's like 64 because it doesn't have wave dashing?
Sakurai just wants the game to somehow always have an even playing field, which simply is bad video game design.
With a game as complex(not in relation to other FGs, calm down, just in the scope of things) as smash brothers you can't dumb it down enough to make every player have a chance. You just can't.
Even in a game as big of a pile of shit as brawl the better player will stomp a noob, probably even harder than in melee.
If you like the 64 version best then play the 64 version, if you like melee best then play melee, if you like brawl best then play brawl, there's nobody stopping you from playing previous games.
>but I'm tired of playing the same game!
What makes you think you won't get tired of the new game after a few months if it's literally the same game but with more characters?
Literally everything beyond game speed is a feature in each of the Smash games.
>game by game bullshit
The hell is that supposed to be? Are you really calling whatever tech the meta develops bullshit? Why do you still call these "exploits?"
No it's fucking not, because you're talking about the new game, not the franchise. In your shitty bastardization of this metaphor, the chef who made food I loved added some dogshit to the menu. I decided not to order the dogshit, and kept getting the thing I liked. Then, when they chef announces a new shit soup, you got mad that that I didn't want to order that instead of my old favorite.
Still can't tell if you're just a shill or an actual retard who's upset that someone else isn't looking forward to a game.
Yeah it does, but not air dodging
I'm saying it's like 64 because it's plays like it's in between Brawl and Melee, but excluding 0 to death combos. Which most people didn't even know you could do in 64, and even fewer people can pull them off.
>Yeah it does, but not air dodging
No it doesn't, holy shit. You can't down dodge/sidestep in 64.
>I'm saying it's like 64 because it's plays like it's in between Brawl and Melee, but excluding 0 to death combos. Which most people didn't even know you could do in 64, and even fewer people can pull them off.
You don't need a zero to death or advanced play to have ridiculous combos in 64, faggot.
I'm beginning to think you've never even played the fucking game.
The ignorance of casuals means nothing for this comparison. When people compare Smash 4 to Brawl, they do it based on the metagames we've witnessed. If Smash 4 had tons of hitstun and easy follow ups, then it would be appropriate to call it similar to 64.
You don't need hitstun to follow up. Most people think airdodge spamming always gets you out but it doesn't. In high level play, good players will try to read what you do after hitting you. Like if your opponent tries to air dodge after being hit, just wait till the end of the air dodge and punish. This is what most high-level Brawl play is and it's actually fun to some people.
Now you're putting words in his mouth. Sakurai doesn't think new players can compete with people who play the game more, he just wants them to have some sort of fun when playing with better players. I can garentee that if a new player gets zero to death combo'd in 64 as their first experience in the game, they would not be having fun. He even said it's why he designed Smash in the first place, to not be like other fighting games. Even with items on very high in Brawl, a newbie couldn't beat somebody who actually plays the game.
Show me a good Brawl set and maybe I'll reconsider. I don't have much experience watching high level Brawl, but I know that running the clock out happens way more than it should in a Smash game.
>Tries to argue that smash 4 is like 64
>doesn't even know basic 64 game mechanics
This is too perfect.
That's what it's like for the brief periods of time when you're trying to secure a lead yeah
Then once you've secured it's stalling and running for 6 minutes with pausing to punish you're opponents failed attempts because the reward on offense in Brawl is so fucking low unless you're against some shitty low tier where they get CG touch of death'd (see: psi kids)
Even the best brawl sets are okay/good at best.
Except you will keep coming back and you will keep wondering why people like the chefs new dishes, even 6 years from now. It's already been 13 years since Melee and you're still here.
But dodging is still in the game, right? Right. Rolling is dodging, it dodges the attack.
Bitch, I've been playing since Smash came out. Do you think every person who played 64 in 1999 can pull off ridiculous combos and spend that type of time learning to exploit and do the moves perfectly? Hell no. Some people just like to play the game. It's like saying everybody who's played Super Mario Bros and loves it can speed run the game near record time.
>Ignorance of casuals
And we're the elitists? And meta games are very inconsistent in Smash, and 99% of people who play Smash, even if they love the game and play the shit out of it, never learn to combo zero to death or even wavedash in Melee. The meta game and exploits is not why Smash is good or popular. The core gameplay is. That's how it's always been.
>OP says nothing about Brawl
>start talking about Brawl as if it's better than Melee
Shields, dodging, and defense as a whole in 64 are generally underpowered, especially compared to Smash 4 where you can run up to an opponent, shield their attack, and immediately act out of shield with barely any lag. This alone makes the game incredibly different from 64.
If you're going to make comparisons between the Smash games online, you'd better accept that people are comparing the game physics, "exploits," and metas among the different games. Being ignorant of these features does not make the comparison any more valid, and ignoring these features largely invalidates the comparison.
Just because Isai can perform at a high level with every character doesn't mean some aren't objectively better than others. Pikachu is almost Meta Knight level compared to the rest of the cast.
>faggot still hasn't given me one reason why smash 4 deserves more than a a "cautiously pessimistic" chance
>hasn't responded to my last 2 posts
yeah, we're done here. What a waste of fucking time.
And now watch that nigger backpedal about how that means nothing for the 'core gameplay'. There's no point in arguing, if he's not a shill then it's only because he does it for free.
If everyone played at Isai's level then tiers would matter MORE, the reason he's able to dominate even with low tier characters is because he's so much better than everyone else.
Says the guy who can't even capitalize and spams the word "nigger" in a smash thread. And I'm getting so many responces that I don't respond to the ones that don't have any logic to them, and just sound shitty. Basically shitposting. Not sure which one you are because you don't stand out, link me to your posts and then we'll talk. And since when did I backpedal? I always said that exploits and infinites are shitty.
Why do you need to give Smash 4 a chance? You already know that Sakurai won't make a literal Melee rehash and you already have Melee and Project M. You just keep coming in these threads because you can't stand the sight of people enjoying something that you don't enjoy.
Forgive us if we want Smash 4 to actually require some time to get good at.
What, because Brawl and 64 require no time to get good at because it's not Melee? Man, you people are elitist pricks, not to mention blatantly wrong. And you wonder why everybody who's not a tourneyfag or new to the internet and impressionable thinks you're a bunch of faggots.
But anon, this isn't a thread about Smash 4, the only Smash game in the OP is Melee! Guess that means that Sm4shfags are invading Melee threads now, huh. What a bunch of shitters. As for why I should give it a chance, I don't think I should. But this asshole >>258620469 apparently thinks it's my moral duty or something.
And, for the record, I don't go to Smash 4 threads, because it quickly became obvious that they were just full of rosterfag shitposting and the like. Instead, I mostly stick to Melee and PM threads, which are, guess what, full of people shitposting about how much they hate Melee and PM! It's almost like the shit goes both ways!
>Says the guy who can't even capitalize and spams the word "nigger" in a smash thread
I'm sorry, good gentleman, does my uncouth tongue pain your virgin ears? Fuck off.
You still haven't answered >>258620895
and now you're ignoring >>258624071's breakdown of why your gameplay comparison is full of shit
But it's okay, you'll just dismiss everything as 'shitposting' because it's easier than responding seriously.
It actually doesn't matter what you want, the competitive smash scene in the west is around 1% of people who bought Brawl. Sakurai doesn't even follow competitive Smash outside of Japan. If anything you should be crying about how competitive Smash doesn't have a bigger scene in Japan.
I didn't mean to include 64 in the bunch, but Brawl's skill ceiling is significantly lower than Melee's. I know the game at a professional level still needs a great amount of tech skill (DACUS comes to mind) and zoning is huge, but I really don't want a game where running away is a viable tactic and is easy to do.
Even Project M has moments where it's impossible for someone to approach the ledge because of how bad some characters match up. Chudat's Kirby is dangerous against a number of characters.
Thankfully ledge stalling is no longer an issue in Smash 4, since invulnerability wears off when regrabbing the ledge. In that way, it's already better than Brawl and probably better than other Smash games.
So is it not a thread about Melee? OP is clearly talking about Melee, he clearly wants to discuss the mechanics of it since that's what his post is about. His mention of Smash 4 is offhand at best.
Smash 4 fags pls stop ruining this melee thread!
Most people who are excited about Smash 4 love all Smash Bros games, like I do. We don't invade Melee threads, we belong there because we love Melee as much as you, we're just not faggots who complain about Brawl being different. For 6 years and counting. I was fine until you guys couldn't tell a shiny pokemon from anime characters. It's like confusing Red for Ash.
And spamming the word "nigger" in a smash thread seems unnecessary, and off the subject matter. It comes off as edgy just to be edgy. And don't even say use of the word "nigger" constantly is not edgy. You're not a fucking teenager... Or... Are you?
As for >>258620895, how is it entry level if people who are good at it don't lose to newbies? It's entry level because it's not Melee, yeah. And shut the fuck up about "WHY DOES IT DESERVE MY GODLY CHANCE MUH MELEE BAH", you sound really whiny. Did Brawl hurt you that much? Cut you that deep? Are you afraid to love again? And if you legitimately think Sakurai hates you, or tourneyfags, then you're a delusional narcissist. That or just plain stupid.
This is actually making a point, you get a gold star. Yeah, it has more defensive options, that's a good thing. Saying it plays closer to 64 doesn't mean they have to take away the normal, not "advanced" additions that Melee introduced.
I just came into the thread
MOSTLY to say you're a nigger and probably anything you have to say on this subject is wrong.
No one complains brawl is different. people complain brawl is bad.
64. Everyone fukkin loved it.
Melee. hella different, everyone fukkin loved it.
Brawl. Hella different. fukkin bad. Can't hardly find anyone playing it.
Meleefags are not people, anon. And they are the only people who complain about Brawl, which sold more than 64 and Melee, by the way. Your opinion is wrong. Everybody who loves Smash every Smash game, except a small minority. As in 1%. The Meleefag % of Smash fans hate brawl.
I main Mario/Kirby/Marth, I doubt they'll touch Marth since he's just like how he is in Melee + less afterlag on dair
Kirby... Yeah, I think he's safe as well, him having a good recovery is a given. I can see them making it so you go into freefall after cutter dash or something like that though.
I'm a bit worried about Mario but I don't see him being any worse than Doc in Melee so I'm good
You're an idiot, you literally just said you can't find anybody who plays it because it's "so bad". You're just spouting what you see other people say without bothering to capitalize, are you 10?
But I'm not >>258628128
You've been arguing with at least three people tonight. Worse yet, this "argument" has devolved to ad hominem and can't be salvaged at this point in time.
Be prepared for Smash 4 to be worse than Brawl though, since install base size means nothing when it comes to sales. If it did, then clearly Melee would be the better game since a larger percent of GCN owners had it than Wii owners having Brawl.
I hope you have some facts to back that up
And I'm done here, the thread is basically dead since the Meleefags don't understand Smash and can't argue beyond "muh advanced melee mechanics". All that's left is shitposting 12 year olds who spout what they've seen others say and have no reading comprehension.
82.5 million copies sold says otherwise
I can't go to my friends house and play brawl.
I can't find a brawl tournament within 50 miles.
I just played 64 at a friends house. went to Mason OH on the 16th for a melee tournament.
>We don't invade Melee threads
And that's why I haven't seen a Melee thread oriented towards competitve play without shitposting in 7 years, right? Stop deluding yourself. Hell, go look up any PM thread in the archive.
>And shut the fuck up about "WHY DOES IT DESERVE MY GODLY CHANCE MUH MELEE BAH", you sound really whiny. Did Brawl hurt you that much? Cut you that deep? Are you afraid to love again? And if you legitimately think Sakurai hates you, or tourneyfags, then you're a delusional narcissist. That or just plain stupid.
You're the one who brought it up you dysfunctional retard. It's not fucking personal for me like it apparently is for you, I'm just not hyped for a game that looks mediocre. And this apparently enrages you for some reason. YOU are the one taking personal offense that I don't want this game. You're the one who commands me I MUST GET EXCITED, then you should give me a reason to get hype or shove off.
>how is it entry level if people who are good at it don't lose to newbies?
I'm not even talking about the game, try reading this time.
>I was fine until you guys couldn't tell a shiny pokemon from anime characters. It's like confusing Red for Ash.
No it's not you idiot. I've played every pokemon game and I neither know what shiny Pichu looks like (because who gives a SHIT about pichu) nor do I keep up with the anime because that's not the games - which should be all that matter, but no, according to you, if I don't know some shitty thing from the mediocre cartoon that I haven't watch since Ash was still fucking around in Kanto, that probably only appeared in one episode, I'm not a TRUE FAN. Get off your high horse.
>Saying it plays closer to 64 doesn't mean they have to take away the normal, not "advanced" additions that Melee introduced
Oh look, you did exactly what I said you would. Completely dodged the point that this is a fundamental alteration and the games won't play alike.
And you posted no real answers. Time for bed I guess.
Capcom made the biggest fighting game, and they when under like a shitton of bricks. I don't think tourney availability is a good gauge of your company/brand health m8
The games are made to sell. Appeling to torurnyfags dose not work, as our good friends at the former Capcom can tell you.
Also I can go play Brawl if I want with anyone whom I feel like getting together with to play, and so can you if your friends are not turbo autistic.
Your argument is full of holes m80, autistic holes at that.
You say this, but you don't actually believe this do you? I would hope not, but whatever. Stay in denial about your wishlist of broken mechanics that will never make an appearance again in a smash game expect the odd mod.
Ill stand over here and drink your tears.
>putting words in someone's mouth.
That guy said nothing about not having people to play brawl with. It's rude to shove things in people's throats.
This man is correct.
on the other hand people WILL not buy it if it lacks a high skill ceiling. A small portion, to be sure.
Making it slow and casual removes the top end playerbase.
Adding options removes... no one.
why do you brawl fags try to pretend like Balanced Brawl and Brawl-, don't exist? They both have the same goal of not having brawl not be a steaming pile of shit but don't play anything like Melee.
And even if Smash 4 is Brawl 2.0 It'll still be good simply cause of the fact that its not shit like Brawl 1.0.
>yfw it started because someone said called a theoretical character that doesn't even exist yet in an unreleased version of a mod the "wrong" thing, even though he was right
Petty, inane bullshit. That's what they invade Melee threads about.
You're objectively wrong. Pikachu is arguably better than Brawl Meta Knight, to the point where it's "soft banned" in competitive play outside of Pikachu dittos or if someone wants to tryhard to beat Isai.
The argument could be made that Pikachu is better than Meta Knight even because Pikachu is literally the best or second best at every single thing in the game.
>Pikachu is arguably better than Brawl Meta Knight
I cannot believe I actually just read that.
Bravo /v/ bravo.
>Brawl being so floaty it made attacking hard
No it didn't. 64 was floaty and it's attacking is just fine.
The fact that you can air dodge to reset all fucking hitstun is what makes attacking hard you fucking casual.
You can assume that of yourself, like the rest of this thread. Casuals acting like tourneyfags and pretending to know jack shit when they don't.
Go back to P:M kid.