The Melee fag hivemind is never gonna fucking end if people like this are gonna constantly ignore the improvements to Brawl and keep comparing it to fucking Melee
Brawl didn't have any gameplay improvements compare to Melee, what the fuck are you talking about?
I'm just wondering who he's catering to with the slower speed if even the casuals are complaining that SSB4 is slow. Maybe the Japs can't keep up? They're so used to VN and RPG pacing, afterall.
>hard as ball techniques
Wow, really? Casual fags are so fucking spiteful.
Also, you do realize that these techs existing doesn't hurt you in any way, if you're going to play casually, you won't get bothered by it all. You're just being spiteful and hating on a really good game, although not perfect, did a lot of things right.
you posted the worst thing to prove your point, max is a retard who did not even consider smash a fighter till last years evo, this guy loves mk9 for its story mode and the said he never even saw it, the same guy who said he hates blazblue but is planning to play it after this years evo. he just spouts bull shit
"Platinum games Korra plays like bayonetta" except it plays like anarchy reigns, you could have even fucking posted a link to a autistic smash player and got a better answer.
Spiteful casualfags everywhere tonight.
People play all the games, both competitively and casually. Stop trying stir up shit.
The main reason why Melee is usually the headliner or the one with the most exposure in the competitive scene is because it's got the best physics and mechanics available. It's not perfect, but Brawl sure as hell isn't an improvement.
>Why are Smash fags so obsessed with the past?
I honestly believe it's just a nintendo fan thing. Most of Nintendo's appeal is for it's retro feeling games; if it ain't broke don't fix it (or something like that).
So when is the Project M team gonna make their own original "fighting" game? it's only a matter of time before one of them gets the idea in their head
I don't get why Smash 4 needs to be Melee 2.
Each game should have a different feel to it, they're supposed to be new entries in the series; not sequels. Why the fuck can't meleefags just stick to playing melee?
I haven't heard a single good thing about Sm4sh save for the roster and everybody I know feels the same way
the pmbr is comprised entirely of technical guys and scrubs who don't know how to correctly balance a Smash game
Smash 4 single handedly kept the GameCube controller alive, that's a plus.
Everything has the same up-and-away knockback with no hitstun, it's just people taking turns hitting each other to far-but-not-far-enough-to-die distances over and over again until one of them croaks. They can speed it up as much as they want, but by that virtue alone it's still 95% Brawl. People complain about Meleefags wanting "Melee 2.0" or not being able to adapt to a new game, but 4 is more like Brawl than any other entry has been to any other game in the series. I'd rather have a drastic departure from Melee and Brawl, than this. I can see myself getting bored with it fast after the new game smell wears off. It feels like the same old Brawl I put hundreds of hours into and long since got sick of.
>it's not okay to like the older DMC games and dislike the reboot
>it's not okay to like playing the CS1.6 instead of CSGO
>it's not okay to like anything older than what's out right now
Why are you such a spiteful faggot? Did some melee-fag fuck your mom or something?
Because Sakurai is the casuals' champion! It's a casual revolution! Down with all those jerks who think they're better than us just because they have good reflexes and coordination!
Down with ableism!
Down with the establishment!
We ARE allowed to have fun with video games too!
Hey I didn't say I wanted it, just that it seems likely. been watching some Project M matches lately and it seems to have this air of "We Made This Ourselves" about it
I can't tell if you just completely missed the point or just choose to focus on that
I actually think they could make their own game if they really wanted to. The problem is it would probably fail as they realize the people who want Smash to be the way they want it to be are a minority in this broken community of ours
The Pewdiepie of the FGC.
Dude... wait, no I'm sorry, was it "dood"? Anyway, "dood" is hopping on the Smash bandwagon and doing his best to parrot the community he's never been a part of just to get views and attention, since Smash is "hip" again after getting on EVO.
He doesn't know shit, he is just trying hard to pretend he represents the FGC when he is a god damn joke.
The defensive oriented play left brawl as an unplayed game in under a fucking year. Balanced gameplay with depth - like a pool that goes from shallow to a deep end - allows for everyone to have a wider variety of fun.
Because they need you to know how much better PM is than Smash4 so they don't feel bad about being shunned by Nintendo fanboys
y'know, the same way Broneis only exists because people made them feel bad about liking a show meant for little girls
>been playing PM with my bros for about a year now
>recently hung out with my cousin who has brawl but not PM
>me and bro decide to play Vanilla brawl while my cousin figures out how to work PM on his Wii u
>Everything feels slower than I remember
>use samus since shes my main since OG 64
>shes slow as shit and nerfed as fuck; no beam change, can't charge in mid air. Morphball escape is fucking slow as shit and kills the flow of battle and the shot is slow as fucking balls smash attacks can't kill unless high 100%.
>Mfw we get PM working an play a couple of rounds
I was like you brawl purists once until I saw what PM had to offer and I never looked back once I tried it. Just pick it up and feel the improvements for your main/mains and the flow of combat and all the other goods it has to offer theres a good chance you'll like it a lot more than vanilla brawl.
Its like 20% faster at most than brawl. Its 80% closer to brawl, this shit is nowhere close to melee
Sakurai was lying through his fucking teeth, its like saying Germany is half way between France and china
I'll be completely honest, I love going for tournaments to Smash 64, Melee, Brawl, Project M, all the same because I've played Smash with my brother since I was super little but I'm fucking sick of Melee. Same game after 13 years just gets so boring, man.
He literally took 7 minutes to say, over and over again, "it's too slow".
>I thought it was too slow
>My friends thought it was too slow
>My wife thought it was too slow
>People on the internet thought it was too slow
>Do you think it's too slow?
>Tell me in the comments if you think it's too slow
>Could they speed it up before release so it won't be too slow?
That video literally contained no information. None. I wasted 6:45 of my life
I have high hopes for the new Smash 4 game.
And to be honest, Melee has long overstated its welcome. Yeah you can play it with friends, and its fast-paced but with the limited variety the characters in its roster along with its dated graphics, I believe its time to embrace the new Smash game. It has newer characters, newer stages, better graphics, and more newer things to look forward to.
We should be fortunate that we're getting a new Smash game. And judging from recent videos, it looks pretty fast-paced too. Is it as fast-paced as Melee? We don't know until the game comes out but whether it is or not, Its going to be fun to play around with and new strategies will unfold.
Also Casual gamers make up the vast majority of the Smash fanbase. The tourney fanbase is in the minority, although a very outspoken one, which is why Nintendo tried catering to them in hopes that they would propel the momentum elsewhere. However, I don't think that's a very good strategy because in the long run the Melee fanbase tends to be very elitist. Not every Melee/Project M fanboy is but good portion of them are and are very stubborn to part ways with their older game. Until every stage becomes Battlefield/Final Destination with "advanced techniques"(wavedashing, L-Canceling, etc), those guys won't be satisfied and never will be. Nintendo shouldn't cater to them or they'll alienate most of their fanbase.
No it isn't. Air speed and ground speed are just different values. It wouldn't be fair if characters who were lightning fast on the ground could also be fast in the air. It's like that on purpose for balance reasons.
>/v/ wants games to be skillful and rewarding
>When it comes to Smash this is a bad thing
I know /v/ isn't a hivemind etc. but why does specifically Smash attract such faggots that enable casual and casual play? If this was any other series such changes would be shit on.
Sakurai is such an ass for keeping this change, what a fucking moron, even SMB for NES had jump momentum, but Sakurai is too busy filling the game with random bullshit than implement this.
Honestly the game does look really slow and boring and all these goddamn anti melee fags will bitch endlessly so nothing gets fixed. I'mnot some tourneyfag, I've never done a wavedash in my life or cared about competitive at all and this game was disappointing and shit when I tested it. But OHNO anyone who criticizes the game must be some melee fag who hates everything and wants melee 2.0!
Casualfags are the biggest cancer in the smash community cause they willingly accept all the bullshit Sakurai thinks is good causing the game to not get fixed and be shit.
There are still tons of people playing old fighters and shooters because they don't like the newer games. Look at CS 1.6 and source. Or the fact that Evo still has main stage Super Turbo events. Hell, I don't know if Quake 4 ever topped 3.
I know this kid at my school that is a tourney fag, huge jack-ass and smells like trash. He constantly rips on Brawl- yet plays it. There's this computer club at our school, and he'll beat fucking SPECIAL NEEDS KIDS and say "Wow, you suck. Get better"
Fuck that kid. Another weird thing he does is study everyone he plays, like, take mental notes.
Can't we have fun with a game anymore?
Nintendo series somehow get apologists from everywhere no matter how bad the changes are.
Look at most Zelda games for example, or Other M, though the last example was so intense that a lot of apologists were flamed to complete silence.
Or, they could alienate none of their fanbase. Do you honestly believe Melee was hated by casuals? I played that game for years before I'd even heard that people played it competitively.
It was among many reasons why characters such as Falcon became straight up unplayable you don't do platforming in games like Smash without momentum it feels and plays fucking awful.
I am very excited to play this video game
That's bullshit because it worked in the 1st 2 games just fine. Besides that running speed is already independent of air speed for every character. Momentum is a basic physics trait that every game with platforming elements has had since the 1st mario. Not having it is unintuitive, contradictory, and makes the game feel sluggish.
Agreed, every Smash game should be different from one another. Smash 4 or their upcoming sequels shouldn't aim to be Melee 2.0. If I wanted to play Melee badly, I would have just bought a damn Gamecube, and the game itself. I don't see myself playing such an outdated game however.
it's a good thing this game will suck, so the melee community doesn't have to go and switch
electronic sports could be something amazing. there's almost limitless potential for possible metagames and rulesets. but they will never be taken seriously because every few years some shitty fucking developer feels the need to develop a sequel with tons of actual changes to gameplay. in actual sports like chess or football, there's either no rule changes, or extremely minor and niche ones that only come into place after years of controversy. but with video games, the entire fucking thing is flipped on its head every few years, meaning there is never room for an actual meta to have time to grow
if smash stays on Melee, it might be the thing that changes this
Not him, but I actually got confused. I thought you were saying 64 was really underrated and Melee was shit, and then Brawl improved slightly upon Melee. And that there is a big 64 fanbase that's mad that there isn't another game in the same style as 64. I've heard some people say Smash 4 is similar to 64 in style, so I assumed 64 fans were mad at Melee and Brawl fans because they were not happy with Smash 4 being similar to 64.
>it's over stayed it's welcome
No. It's a great game, that isn't perfect but did a lot of unique things.
>you can still play it with friends
You can still play all the Smash games with Friends, but competitive smash will remain centered around Melee.
Still more viable and useful that Brawl's.
You also talk a bunch of shit about a community you know nothing about? Really, you think people on want to play on Battlefield an destination? Do you think things like Wavedashing are completely necessary to the metagame for most characters?
Also what's up with the whole elitism thing? Are they barring you from joining discussions or events?
Let me give several constantly restated reason why you shouldn't
Anyone who claims that Smash 4 is anything like 64 has never played 64 at a competent level. The games aren't anything alike.
The game is clearly closest to Brawl. I don't know how people debate this.
And thats why Fox, Marth and Falco are top tier in Melee.
They dominated the ground and air game. Anyone else excelled at one element but flopped in the other (dubbed: balance).
Sakurai is doing us all a favor by getting rid of top-tier-Fox.
People that suck melee's dick and hate anything that isn't melee only because it's not melee and won't even consider any change or see the positive side of any change because if it is not melee it is shit to them.
As I said, the Smash Bros fanbase has always been casual, Melee's fanbase was casual before moving on to Brawl. Brawl is still widely played and more than Melee however, Melee gains more presence because of how outspoken tourney players are in contrast to casual fans.
From a tourney fan's perspective, Brawl was an "inferior" product to Melee because of the game's mechanics. However, most casual gamers never cared about how fast-paced melee was or its "advanced" techniques because they just wanted a game to have fun with.
Most people play with items on on a variety of stages which is why it was already fast-paced to them. There wasn't much in worries about "tier-lists" because the characters flaws/weaknesses could easily be compensated with items, and irregardless of their strength, anybody could win because the items/Final Smash were the wild card of the battle.
Fox only started winning tournaments a very short while ago. Falcon and marth come nowhere near the speed of, say, falcon or other characters that benefited from said conservation of momentum.
Fox should have been banned in melee.
He had way too many unique or powerful tools, too many strengths, no real weakness, he was just too good and on a league of its own. Other characters took ages to develop their metagame to compete with him and even then it was always an uphill battle by extremely skilled players trying to match Fox's OPness.
You're an idiot who will argue for only your perception of what you think someone who disagrees with you thinks.
If Brawl tweaked on Melee's physics a bit, didn't remove mechanics and actually balanced the cast while adding new characters no one would be angry.
But you will never listen to actual reasoning because you're a spiteful and angry faggot.
Calm down, man. I know it's hard to hear this, but don't take everything you read on /v/ so seriously. A lot of the big meleefags have said they don't expect this to be Melee 2 and that's fine, they just want it to have merit. But because /v/ tends to shit on everything they don't like, people take any form of negativity as "OH IT'S NOT MELEE"
Because I never see competitive-anything players having fun
They're always frustrated and tense and angry and shit talk each other
You didn't really address the point that it can be both. Are you saying that implementing competitive elements in Smash 4 will drive away casuals? Do you honestly think casuals care about gameplay depth?
They see Megaman and Mario fighting and they go and buy it, that's the very reason they're called casual. Adding competitive elements would help bridge the gap between two very fractured communities.
Brawl gets played more only because it is newer but overall Melee managed to be much more popular when it was new even among casuals.
Brawl physics were not fun and got annoying fast. It's still ok as a party game once every now and then with friends but it failed to get people hooked enough to care about the game and play it seriously, and I don't mean tourneyfag level serious but just like normal people that play with their friends but still try to do their best when they fight.
Besides that none of them benefited from momentum the most. Falcon is the posterboy for it. Shine being stupidly useful is why spacies are so good. Marth having more range than god is why he is so good. You talk like someone who knows nothing about the game.
OH BOY LET'S REV UP THOSE GIFS AND WEBMS
Nobody knows until the game comes out. Whether its Brawl or Melee 2.0, who fuckin cares. Let's just be glad we're getting a fuckin game released. Look at the Fallout crowd, they've waited 6 years after the release of Fallout New Vegas and they still haven't gotten a game from Bethesda. At least we're getting a new game.
And if you don't like it just stick to your Project M/Melee whatever you like while the rest of us patiently wait for the arrival of this game.
>thinking this will change anything
I don't understand it. Casuals claim to love the slower pace and love anything that fucks over the competitive side, but if you're a REAL casual Smash player, why the fuck would you care?
You're not a casual the second you begin to compare games, because a real casual doesn't know the difference between Melee and Brawl, and a real casual doesn't feel any difference when using Captain Falcon in Melee and using him in Brawl because it's all the fucking same.
I suspect it's all just to shitpost.
>literally no arguments except "no u"
Most "Melee-purist" don't exist and you're fighting a boogeyman. Also how am what you're stating, I play the 3 games and the mod a lot and I love all of them, but I can also criticize different aspects of them without getting pissed like you.
People are not angry about it being different, it's about lacking actual improvements to the balancing of the game, and making the mechanics and physics fit.
Naw, you're just a fucking retard. Enjoy fighting your boogeyman.
The reasons these threads work so well is because when casuals shitpost there's no real harm because it's a joke and nobody on /v/ could possibly admit to being this casual about video games, but when tourneyfags shitpost all hell breaks loose and it's just those elitist tourneyfags ruining everyone's fun again.
>he's never played with /v/
most people here are shit except those 2 guys and me. Doesn't matter what game
This. THIS is what I don't understand.
No one said that shit when melee came out.
Fucking no one, even my 6 year old sister could play melee. It's only years after Brawl came out that people suddenly started thinking melee was too fast.
It was never hated until Sakurai and Nintendo started pushing their revisionist history where Melee was an impossibly complex game that casuals could not get into at all.
Say what you will about Melee and autism and whatever, there is no other game out there that has seen a revival like Melee's.
No, you're a piece of shit, and a sorry excuse for a human being. I've seen "meleefags" criticize aspects of the newer games, not complain about how it's not Melee HD.
There are plenty of people, regardless of good they actually are, that wanted meaningful improvements and balancing. Spiteful people like you are the actual cancer to series, because you're strawman anyone who disagrees with you, you trash talk people who play differently than you or those who play on a different skill level. People like you who condemn others for having fun while playing a "hurr a 14 year old game".
But hardcore gamers suck at video games, they spend their time and acquire skills on "debating" over message boards about how wrong everyone else is instead of playing video games.
>Side A can't grasp how Side B loves Brawl, flaws and all, more than Melee/PM
> Side B thinks Side A is out to ruin their fun by making everything boring and controlled, when really they just want improved features that they feel needs to be in the game for it to be considered serviceable
> Side A holds painfully high standards to idealized perfection but means well
> Side B can't seem to state their feelings without getting overly defensive and picking out shitposters as though they represent Side A
I know /v/ is terrible at games, but being shit at games doesn't mean you're casual, it means you're shit at games.
A actual casual doesn't go on video game forums and argue gameplay with people online.
Even as a tourneyfag, I'm excited for Smash 4 because it seems like what Brawl was always meant to be, a more casual experience to fall back on whenever I'm burnt out from melee, not a slow abomination that shat all over HAL's legacy.
Side A can grasp it though. Side A just wants them to admit that they like the game for shitty, superficially reasons and that they need to get off their high horse and stop thinking that having Sakurai's dick lodged in their throat makes them a better person.
>but being shit at games doesn't mean you're casual
Only on /v/
>A game where you are given enough options to basically control just about everything for a match so you can play the way you want to play.
>Has by far the most shit flinging of any game out there based soley from the fact that people don't play the game the same wayy you play it.
You play 1v1 fox only final destination? You're a faggot.
You play 4 man FFA coin match with only pokeballs on very high on pokefloats? You're a faggot.
You play 1v1 with a friend all options on default with a random stage? You're a faggot.
You play some weird custom game mode you came up with? You're a faggot.
How does this happen?
>Brawl is better because it has more of everything, regardless of whether or not any of that content that there is more of is actually good
>Brawl is better because it includes this character, no matter if that character is fun to use in the physics of the game, no matter if that character is balanced, no matter if the entire roster is balanced
I can give you more.
thats max for you, he extends his stupidity on a subject to 5-8 minutes. "oh shoot korra by platinum gotta make a vid"
it plays like bayonetta
from what I played its pretty much bayonetta
the controls are like bayonettas
the gamplay is just like bayonetta
I played the same demo and it plays like fucking anarchy reigns and nothing like bayo
I would forgive it all if the game had real combos, which have been a thing since Smash 64. But no, Sakurai removed that, too.
I await the next Smash game, where you can't dash or shield anymore because Sakurai thought it was necessary.
There was no real reason to change the physics from Melee. The floaty and slowness is all because Sakurai wants casuals to keep up, which they could already do with fucking Melee because the only people who actually play Melee at a pace difficult to follow are the super pro players who hang out at tournaments anyway, so no casual will ever experience that.
Sakurai is a fucking hack, and it pains me to see how people are totally alright with him making shit more casual for no reason, while shitting on every other dev that does the same. It's all bitter hate for the competitive scene while Sakurai slips away in the chaos of all that shitposting and ends up unscathed.
It's gonna slow down until it looks like fucking PlayStation All-Stars levels of shit, and you're all gonna eat it up and forgive Sakurai because it's "just a party game", which is his own little personal bullshit argument when people question his design choices. His own little "get out of jail, free" card to protect himself from getting called out.
I'm not getting this shit. And before you shitpost about it like I know you'll do, no, I'm not a Meleefag or a competitive player. I'm a guy that liked Smash before it turned into this shit. Brawl started it all but holy shit it was just the start.
The only improvement in Smash 4 over Brawl is the graphics and overall colors. The combat looks like shit. Sakurai should just remove all neutral stages and just force everyone to play with items and on hazard stages because that's the only time the game looks interesting and fun. Even the fucking adventure mode thing looks bland as fuck, another Subspace Blunder.
I'm done with Smash until it gets a competent director.
I have never heard a pro brawl argument, all I've ever seen the casual elitists do are call people who play project m tourney fag babbies, and that the new game is good and if that melee was already made so go play it.
I have never seen a someone mention something positive about brawl, aside from characters, stages, and items and whatnot but I don't think that's really the case of the argument.
None of those happen other than the first one though. I've never once seen a tourneyfag here say that a person is playing the game wrong because they are doing a FFA with items on some scrolling stage.
Everything not related to core gameplay such as more music, SSE, cool cutscenes, better graphics. That's all great stuff, but if the core gameplay is worse, it's all superficial in the end.
Sakurai does some dumb troll shit and /v/ sucks his dick and forgives him for being a hack developer. I don't know why Nintendo thinks he's so core to the Smash franchise when HAL was what made the first two games great.
Because, just for a brief moment, he regretted his switch to Fox and wished to return to Falcon. However, his 20XX mindset promptly squashed that idea.
It's ironic, the best Falcon main in the world is also one of the only ones who hate playing as him.
I'm one of those faggots who enjoyed both of those games. Then again I never approached smash brothers with the like super competitive mentality. I just play it with friends and have a good time.
There is already a lightning option in melee/brawl. It literally just makes the game play twice as fast.
And it's a shit option that no one plays with because it's not fun and just makes the games control even worse and doesn't solve any problems.
So, /v/. Now that we can all agree that Smash 4 is anti-hype, who are the remaining characters?
Wrong, you imbecile.
By your logic, DmC is a perfectly fine game even though it stripped out much more than it added
By your logic, RE5 is a good game even though it cannibalized any semblance of horror or tenseness that the series still clung to after
By your logic, everything that has happened in gaming in the past 5 years is acceptable
Not him but yes it didn't last very long in tournaments.
It would have made the more competitive players happy if it didn't have mechanics made to be hostile to players.
The game was made to shit on offense in every way.
There is also planking and you get punished if you try to play offensively unless you're Metaknight.
The way the game turned out is
1) Get life lead
2) Run away
The person chasing you is fighting a losing battle.
>ignore the improvements to Brawl
so brawl IS shit, now that smash 4 is "better" than brawl, will smash 5 be better than smash 4? take a guess.
make something shit and then make something less shit, that way you can never move on to improve your product.
I don't see how you can measure a games popularity just because it's not particularly popular with tournaments.
The point I was making is there could have been tons of local play like with me and my buddies.
At the very least, he acknowledges that he warmed up to the games playstyle after a while. What you say is true, though. There's a childish mentality in the melee community that speed is the only thing that matters in Smash, which is most likely why they're ridiculed by the greater competitive community at large.
Here's some good examples. Two of the msot popular competitive games right now are Marvel v. Capcom 3 and Street Fighter 4. MvC is based around fastpaced combat and the combo game, while SF is slower and has a greater importance on proper defense and the punish game.
The two play as different as night and day, yet they are both respected because of the depth their systems allow. Meleefags don't give a shit about systems, though. All they want is speed to hold their short attention spans. In the US, Brawl has been mostly abandoned competitively because of this, but in the Japanese scene, it has flourished due to dedication by the playerbase over there. Look up some Japanese Brawl doubles matches, they're surprising complex and very enjoyable to watch.
TL;DR Meleefags are cancer.
>The Melee fag hivemind
But anon, the hivemind has switched to Brawl. If you speak positively of Melee or P:M, or negatively of any other Smash, you're immediately berated as a "tourneyfag" by the smug casual elitists here
Of course Melee has problems. It just has less than Brawl, but Smash 4 is not looking at all like a balance between the two of them. I continually see apologists say "Let each Smash game be what it is" but they totally ignore how absolutely similar Smash 4 is to Brawl.
I don't see how that's relevant. That doesn't make his opinion any less valid. Calling people out for being bad at their job in a field they have no experience in is something news people do all the fucking time.
>Team Ninja is a good competent company
>Can't get their simple game running smoothly
>Filled with glitches that hinder the game more than helps it
>Focuses on things that isn't combat when the point of the series is the combat
>Enemies are so nonaggressive that you can sit there for 20-30 seconds on most difficulties without worrying about an attack
>No depth whatsoever
>Bosses are incredibly basic
I don't even give a shit about the story or who the character is.
It didn't play good.
And it didn't sell anyways.
upboat for you good sir, because you were daring enough to express your righteous opinion on 4chan's /V/ board!
nah your a cunt and you should just leave now before your stupidity is exposed in all of its glory
>while SF is slower and has a greater importance on proper defense and the punish game.
Smash has both of those, you either have no idea what you are talking about or are just trolling.
If anything Fox is really the only top tier character that can get by on aggression alone. And even then it's better to play a punish heavy game style.
Sweet victims complex you got there, faggot
Yeah, but nobody cares about the popularity about local play with a bunch of nobodies, competitive play gets exposure, keeps the brand name in the public eye and recruits more players that get interested in the scene and hence more buyers.
Once the game is sold it's sold, you played it for 6 years, someone else played it for one day, that's the same value to Nintendo.
>SF is slower and has a greater importance on proper defense and the punish game.
The problem is Brawl does not have a proper defense and punish game.
You can not even punish on reaction because of the forced input lag.
Most characters are not nearly fast enough to punish as well.
Offense is punished in all ways.
And that doesn't even address planking
Shields were also much more durable than in Melee and 64, and there was not a lot of blockstun.
There is a lot of issues that keeps Brawl from being comparable to SF.
SF also supports defensive play and offensive play and one is not weak compared to the other.
In Brawl defense is the dominant option.
You're a moron if you think defense is remotely important for melee beyond setting up chaingrabs. Most of the complexity of its high level play comes from executing combos correctly or aggressively edgeguarding. You don't know what you're talking about.
>brawl's roster is very unbalanced
>removal of mechanics instead of improving them
>HURR MELEE FAGS
No johny, you are the cancer. I've seen some impressive Brawl footage, but that doesn't make the game amazing.
>everyone I've talked to or heard about on messageboards says it's to slow/sluggish
I haven't heard much of this actually. So far I've heard mostly praise fro it being at least slightly faster than brawl. Also I'm not sure if hight movement speeds would be all that beneficial to the 3DS version. Melee ib a fucking 3DS would be the most annoyingly fast shit. I do agree that some moves have fairly large recovery times.
Regardless, it's running at 60, it's faster than brawl, and fanservice just oozes out of it. Guess speed only matters to the competitive crowd. Since some of those invitational battles looked pretty exciting.
Nigga what are you talking about?
Next you are going to tell me that Marth, Falcon, and Shiek are aggressive characters and don't depend entirely on a good punish game to get shit done. And that Falcos defensive play with his laser isn't the key to his entire gameplay.
Thanks for contradicting yourself, you stupid nigger
Most people don't even realize it. That's the saddest part. I'd expect it anywhere else except /v/
I can understand wanting a higher competitive skill ceiling but I don't think Brawl was unforgivable. I had a lot of fun playing both, I think if you're approaching smash with a super competitive tournament level mind set you should maybe look into other fighting games designed with that express purpose.
Holy shit this entire thread is like a bunch of atheists crashing into a church, kicking everybody, and then shoving papers that have documented proof that there is no God into their faces
Smash 4 has the longest development time out of all the iterations of Smash, the fact that it's hardly a step-up from Brawl clearly shows Sakurai and his team's laziness.
It's kind of ironic that the guys that bitch about Melee players have become way worse than them in every regard. Even the guy in the OP video is just like "it's a good game, it's just a little slow and clunky" and people are STILL flipping their shit because somebody said something negative. Meanwhile most actual Melee players just want to play a well made game that everyone can enjoy.
What a terrible fanbase this series has. It's really sad.
I like 64 the best out of all of them. Isn't it the slowest one?
big fuckin whoop
you clearly have high standards, no standards, and unrealistically high standards all at the same time
Nah, you're a normal person and not a /v/ shitposter. Feel good about that.
Brawl is a poor game at all levels. The hindrances of the engine affect everything you do. I'm not super competitive and I've never been to a tournament. The best thing about Smash is how it relies heavily on platforming elements, and Brawl shat on that too.
It was never about dissing on Brawl players (well sometimes but come on that's endemic of every IP ever).
It was always about criticizing Sakurai's backward design philosophy and the retards who support him
Meleefags will never let go. The adapter for Gamecube controllers for Smash 4 and the Gamecube-shaped classic controllers are proof enough of this.
If Nintendo were smart, they would completely ignore Meleefags, because all Meleefags want is an exact clone of Melee.
Wow, so you're saying hundreds of people here have played the final version of the game? And even after taking the time to develop a metagame it still plays similar to Brawl? Huh.
Oh wait, nah, you're just a fucking moron, nevermind.
Why is it whenever someone brings up Brawl's altered gameplay mechanics, the first thing people mention is competitive play?
I'd assume nobody in your circles actually plays like that
Nigger a metagame doesn't change speed or physics or lag, holy fucking shit.
How much do you think is going to be changed in the final version that gets released in a month? I'm serious. Please list exactly what you think will be different. The demo verison is all we have to base our opinions on. If it changes for the better, great. If it doesn't, then I guess we're fucked. But it's either discuss the current state of the game mechanics or don't discuss the game at all.
Because we all know that's how Smash 4 is gonna play, right? Even though the changes to the ledge game would make this impossible?
Just shut the fuck up if you know you have nothing to add to the conversation.
Because it doesn't get better in casual play. The best option 90% of the time is to wait, shield, then punish. That is shit tier gameplay. You have to play like a complete retard to get any type of excitement out of it.
>Complaining about casuals or Casualization
You are talking about a game made by the creator of Kirby. A man whose life's work has been innovating new ways to casualize video games. In an age where games were getting more and more difficult, Sakurai wanted to make a game that anyone could play and enjoy, even with little-no video game experience. That was Kirby's Dreamland and its sequels. He has gone on record about this. The same philosophy was applied to his N64 fighting game, as an answer to the fighting game genre, whose games were getting less and less accessible every year.
If anything, Melee was a mistake. I'm sure it troubled Sakurai deeply to see what his fanbase did with that game
>Why is it whenever someone brings up Brawl's altered gameplay mechanics, the first thing people mention is competitive play?
Anon, a casual learned how effective planking is.
There is nothing you can really do about it and all you have to do is push down and then jump.
But even if you ignore just that there is still a lot of other things.
>No shieldstun when hit so you can punish real easily
>Infinite air dodges
>Run away too strong on everyone
>Game forces turtling, not encourages it.
Also there's a lot of people in my circles who at different skill ranges.
None of them liked the changes for different reasons.
Even my most casual friend didn't like it because it felt like he was playing in slow motion and laggy.
And he just runs around jumping on everything as Yoshi.
>I think if you're approaching smash with a super competitive tournament level mind set you should maybe look into other fighting games designed with that express purpose.
The only difference between a casual mindset and this fabled "super competitive tournament level" mind set is wanting to actually play the game instead of just hitting buttons until you win. That's it. You learn what works and what doesn't and then play the game like anyone else would. Everything else is just a matter of who learned what faster.
All this other faggotry that gets spouted on /v/ and anywhere else is fabricated nonsense made up from buzzwords and ignorance to make these people feel better about themselves.
>Nigger a metagame doesn't change speed or physics or lag, holy fucking shit.
Yeah, but a metagame is required because we have NO IDEA WHAT KIND OF HIDDEN SYSTEMS THE GAME HAS YET, you ignorant fuckwit. You know, the things that make or break the fuck metagame regardless of physics? Just a few weeks ago a new technique was found in the demo that gives more movement options to players.
You really think people had Melee or Brawl completely figured out by their demos? Just fucking kill yourself, dude.
>Huh, Smash 4 seems pretty slow, but other than that its very well made
>Holy shit, fucking melee hivemind is so annoying, oh my god, they never shut up! Fucking tourney fags, I swear!
The game is slow. You don't have to be a try hard to feel the difference.
>Literally hopping into a conversation without knowing what the topic is about
We already know Smash 4 is favoring defensive play again.
But it won't be as bad as Brawl's because now you can actually damage shields and there is no planking.
It sounds like the people you play with are too bad at the game to notice what works and what doesn't. Once you realize that defense is way too strong the game gets a lot less fun.
Just for a small second, let's pretend everyone actually agrees with the arguments stated in this topic and Smash 4 is still slow, Brawl is still terrible, and Melee/P:M are the most playable Smash games
what does thataccomplish?
>it's the fact that Nintendo can't make a controller that's worth a shit.
The Wii U Pro controller is a fantastic controller. The Classic Controller and Classic Controller Pro were also great. The Wiimote was very well designed. The Gamepad is a very interesting controller.
It's not that Nintendo doesn't know how to make a good controller, it's that stubborn faggots like you refuse to accept change.
It isn't bait. Sakurai has spoken at length about how he hates that people with skill beat people without skill. How can you argue that this man should be making multiplayer games?
I had somewhat of a similar experience, I was hating on tournyfags long before PM came out until I actually went back and played brawl. I literally said out loud to myself "holy shit was it always this slow?" Then I ended up going back to melee and PM came out soon after. I love melee but I've been doing PM mostly because I prefer the balanced characters
Of course, and not that you don't have a valid and reasonable point, but your logic is entirely dependent on the fact that everyone else doesn't know what they're talking about
Does it honestly surprise you that some people don't give a shit about playing optimally and just want to have fun? You're aware this is 80% of Smashes fanbase, correct? Go ahead and ask the average player what Wavedashing or Dropcancelling or Flimflamming is, they don't give a shit because they don't wanna turn a fun game into a job.
>extreme combo potential
>very punishable recovery (no air-dodging)
>hitstun actually matters
>only one semi-clone
>KOs happen at reasonable percentages
You can say it's the worst, but it's not.
>This game feels really unlike any other Smash Bros.
>Though overall it feels more akin to Brawl
Max doesn't know shit about Smash Bros., he needs to stop pretending to give a shit just because Smash has come to the attention of the mainstream FGC.
grr i'm angry now because you were dismissive about my post
I shall now make a post to express that anger, and you will respond with a similar snide post, accompanied with a snide anime reaction picture
How does it feel to be as bad as biodrones, anon?
Casuals in Smash threads continually talk about playing to have fun. Please fucking tell me what the difference is between playing a match of Smash Bros that you dedicate to "having fun." Do you just fucking jump off the edge every stock, or stand still and let your opponent kick your fucking ass? Or do you actually try to beat them?
Furthermore yes it surprises me when people talk about the game and don't know the most rudimentary techniques. Again it's like if you said "Wow you fucking nerds think people care about FADC?"
Your response has nothing to do with mine.
How can you argue that a man who designs multiplayer videogames should have the mentality that people should not beat others if they are better than them?
Because when you're job is to make a game everyone can enjoy, and instead a small group people who practice like crazy start scaring the rest of the potential players away because they're intimidated, you have to do something to tip the scales the other way. After making melee, Sakurai entered a zone where no matter what he did, he couldn't win. If he made smash 4 like melee, it'd be deemed try hard garbage by faggots like OP but would only be loved by a small percent of smash enthusiasts. So he made the compromise in the other direction, to appeal to everyone and tell the tourney friends to just learn to make due, because a large group of casual players who will leave the game in a few years and never look back brings in more money than a small group who will play the game for years after its life cycle.
Damn anon, you sound a little butt blasted that you don't understand what you're playing.
It's okay though, there's nothing wrong with playing to have fun without learning anything.
are you for real arguing that melee was not universally praised or was too hard to play
are you for real arguing that brawl is more conducive to casual play, and if so, please list and explain exactly how this is
brawl still allows good players to shit all over bad players, and no game design will ever, ever, ever change this because that is how ability works
I can't just describe to you what it's like to have friends, anon. It's something you have to have for yourself.
You ever just try not giving a shit about winning? Or do you have to be a tryhard faggot about everything in life? Do you flip out during a game of Scrabble and complain about how Q and X tiles and triple word spaces are OP?
You know what the outcomes of a match of Smash Bros are? Win or lose. That's all. How do you play a game where all you can do is either win or lose any other but trying to beat your opponents?
Again. Do you start up a match with your friends and then jump off the stage, or let your friends kill you? Is that fun? Why is that fun?
You know you can have friends and play to have fun while learning right?
You know you can have friends who play the game and try to get better too, right?
>You ever just try not giving a shit about winning? Or do you have to be a tryhard faggot about everything in life?
You do know that you have to be a tryhard faggot to get someplace in life right?
This is a terrible analogy.
>Do you flip out during a game of Scrabble and complain about how Q and X tiles and triple word spaces are OP?
If you have the letters to make these words that are legit then you earned it.
What's the problem with fucking scrabble, mate?
The point of the game is to win. In smash there HAS to be a winner for every match. There are no ties. There aer no second place gold thanks for trying stars.
The objective is to knock the opponent off the stage and win. That's the most basic task in the game that is done in every single match.
You are suppose to win.
You can play, lose, and still have fun. But that doesn't change the fact that you are suppose to win.
>In smash there HAS to be a winner for every match. There are no ties
It's actually possible to tie.
It gets a NO CONTEST in the results screen but you both have to KO each other at the same time, then do it again in Sudden Death.
What's hard to understand about people playing semi-seriously, without caring about advanced techniques? How far removed are you from the rest of the world that you think I'm talking about just jumping off the platform?
>you have to do something to tip the scales the other way
That can be done without changing the physics and mechanics of the game and removing movement options. It was already in Melee.
>I haven't heard a single good thing about Sm4sh save for the roster and everybody I know feels the same way
because you fucking browse /v/ all day where everyone here bitches about it
>Agreed, every Smash game should be different from one another.
Different in the fact they BUILD on top of each other in terms of content and gameplay mechanics, not subtract things.
We're not talking about advanced techniques. We're talking about you saying that playing to win is being a tryhard. I ask you what else there possibly is to do in a match other than win or lose. When you play semi-seriously, do you try to win?
It's quite simple. Not all multiplayer games are strictly about skill-based competition. Mario Kart, one of the most successful series' of all time, has founded its core gameplay on punishing you for playing well and rewarding you for playing poorly. Similarly, Mario Party puts you through extremely long competitions where the deciding factor in victory is basically dice rolls. You can look even further than that, there are loads and loads of board and card games that rely largely on luck, and see even the most skilled strategists unable to get a leg up over little kids.
I realize that competition where skill can be trumped by luck may not interest you. But the concept exists in many forms, and has been popular since before any of us were born. People enjoy it and will continue to enjoy it whether or not you think it has any business being made.
Hey. Here's a little tip. Lean in close so you can hear, alright?
It's entirely possible to play and enjoy the act of playing without winning, especially in a game like Smash bros. where hilarious things can happen in a FFA or items format.
Go play an RTS or something if winning is the only enjoyment you still find in videogames.
Right, except Smash Bros. is still about the best player winning. Here's the difference between Smash and Mario Party/Kart: The devs of Mario Party/Kart actually build the game around dice rolls or around the losing player getting rewards or extra help or whatever. The devs of Smash SAY that they want worse players to win and then design a game in a completely bizarre way that does lower the skill ceiling marginally, but that still absolutely 100% rewards the better player, in all cases.
This is the problem with Sakurai. He says one thing and then doesn't commit to making his game full on dice roll random bullshit. Instead he just makes the same style of game but markedly worse in all aspects.
He fucking said you can play and lose and have fun but that doesn't change shit about Smash requiring winners and losers. You do realize that in FFA with items you're still playing to win, right? You're still fighting your opponents.
If I can, sure. But that's entirely secondary to having a good time with my friends. As such, we don't commit the time to memorizing advanced techniques in order to get a advantage over one another. We're satisfied with the game as is. How hard is this is grasp for you?
Some idiots impressions? There are lots of idiots saying this shit even though it is obviously brawls gameplay
Look at all the long ass matched from sdcc, some going over 8 minutes, just of single pokes and people dying at %170
>Even the fucking adventure mode thing looks bland as fuck, another Subspace Blunder.
This has to be copypasta. We haven't even seen the slightest fucking bit of adventure mode beyond that one clip of a branching path.
Advanced techniques have shit all to do with this conversation. By having a good time with your friends, what specifically do you mean? Walk me through a match where you're just having a good time. Does it involve you fighting your friends and trying to beat them?
>where hilarious things can happen in a FFA or items format.
>LOL SO RANDUM XDDDD THAT BOMB PWN'D U BRO, ROFL
How the fuck did you guys not grow out of playing like that in the first year of play? Me and my friends got semi competitive and dropped the items because playing like that wasn't contrived and simplistic.
Parts of it do. But then that goes out the window when you land on the "swap stars" event
>The devs of Smash SAY that they want worse players to win
They don't, to my knowledge. Sakurai says he wants the game to be accessible to all skill levels, which has the implication that skill not be the sole deciding factor in victory. That doesn't mean the intention is to reward the loser, it means that unskilled players should still be given a chance at winning through luck. Moreover, all games are designed with a winner in mind. The fact that Smash Bros includes elements of luck does not preclude the possibility of a victor.
The only element of luck in Brawl is tripping, and that is mitigated by good players too. Again: Sakurai pays lip service to the idea of accessibility and then does nothing with it. He's completely misguided. He actually thinks that he's "leveling the playing field" too which is said.
Hi everyone! Competitive Meleefag here to clear up some misconceptions. And anger. Wow, there's a lot of anger in here.
1. The Smash community readily acknowledges that Melee and Brawl (and 64 and PM, of course) are DIFFERENT games. They each have their own strengths and weaknesses, and thus appeal to DIFFERENT people. Different people like different things.
2. The Melee community readily acknowledges that Brawl is a better casual game. There are more characters, more stages, more items, more game modes, more challenges, and more graphics. Essentially everything the average casual player - that is, the average player - is looking for was done better in Brawl. Competitive players are looking for something else, though, which brings us to our next point.
3. MELEE PLAYERS PREFER MELEE BECAUSE IT HAS ONE ALL-IMPORTANT THING: MOVEMENT OPTIONS. There it is, the secret, the entire reason we prefer Melee. We play Melee because its physics engine offers more ways to get your character around the screen. Being able to move easily and efficiently where and when you want is an incredibly satisfying feeling, and that feeling doesn't have as much of a presence in Brawl. Some people enjoy movement options, so they go to Melee, which has more abundant movement options. Other people prefer the more planning-oriented, defensive type of game, so they go to Brawl. That's all there is to it.
4. Naturally, we thirst for more of this game we love so much. Everyone likes variety, which is why Project M exists. We love Melee, but more is always better, so naturally we project our dreams onto the upcoming title in the series that spawned the game we love.
I am open to questions, comments, and if you just want to hate someone, feel free to direct it my way. Let me help provide insight into the competitive Melee player's mindset.
I did read it. You did not answer me. I will repeat my question, for your convenience.
>By having a good time with your friends, what specifically do you mean? Walk me through a match where you're just having a good time. Does it involve you fighting your friends and trying to beat them?
Please specifically answer those questions.
No one is mentioning advanced tactics but you.
Also, what's the deal with that "if I can" bullshit?
Sounds like you give up exceedingly quickly once things stop going your way, at least from where I am sitting.
>The only element of luck in Brawl is tripping
Another factor in accessibility is the easy to understand and execute controls. As I understand it, the unintentional techniques used in Smash high level play violate this principle by allowing skilled players options that unskilled players don't have.
You never even answered the question. You can not argue against the fact that the point of the game is to win your match.
It's the very most basic core of the game. You can have fun doing silly things along the way, but that doesn't cahnge the end result.
The fact that Brawl had a competitive scene at all should convince people that it was a fun game that could still be enjoyed at a high skill level. If the game wasn't fun to play, then I don't think so many tournament players would bother with it for so long.
So why are you people trying to speak for the competitive scene when the competitive scene still played Brawl, is playing Project M, and likes what Smash4 is bringing so far?
Jesus Christ dude, have you even graduated high school? You're reading comprehension is abysmal. You dodged or just straight up didn't understand their point entirely, acted like you retorted to it, and then got made when you were told you missed the point.
You're the one with autism, if anybody.
Smash is the worst game to play with friends, I always have to handicap myself severely. They were the kind of player who isn't aware of the existance of tilts, always charge smash attacks fully, believes some moves are "cheap", /v/ seems to be full of these kinds of people.
>The fact that Brawl had a competitive scene at all should convince people that it was a fun game that could still be enjoyed at a high skill level. If the game wasn't fun to play, then I don't think so many tournament players would bother with it for so long.
It actually got a lot of shit in competitive play because people couldn't decide on a ruleset at first(Got it banned from EVO because of drama) and then over time people left it because payouts weren't that good.
Competitive scene in tournaments and all do it for the cash.
Brawl was making less money, less numbers, less entrants than Melee was for it's entire lifespan.
Project M is noteworthy because it actually has a following and money.
People are hopeful for Smash 4.
if melee had never existed brawl would not have had a tournament scene
For a lot of people brawl was there first smash game, and they saw the melee people doing tourneys so they joined in, then it died
That must be hell. I'm lucky the friends that I have that would want to play smash are alright at worst and can atleast do simple shit like l-cancel.
Except one guy, who wanted to play with us, played once got bodied and decided the game was dumb.
Brawl was bigger than Melee for most of its lifespan. It wasn't until Melee got Evo and the documentary and Brawl got old, got competition from Project M and from Smash 4 that Melee got bigger.
The best thing about smash is the duality of playing it casually or seriously if you choose. It catered to everyone but the two demographics don't mix.
You get the kind of person who can't accept failure/losing playing with someone who gives everything his all in the name of fun and the result is just a huge flame war.
The 'point' they're trying to make is that there's a winner to the game and the point is to be the winner. You don't need me to acknowledge that because it's fucking obvious. I'm trying to explain how most people's enjoyment of the games goes beyond the struggle for top spot, how it's fun for most just to compete with our favorite Nintendo characters in creative settings with wacky conditions.
How hard is this for you to grasp?
Thank you, competitive cultists with overbearing sense of authority and entitlement over both the creators and the rest of the playerbase,
for reminding me that no matter how shitty law is, chaos will always be shittier.
>so many casual players who prefer Brawl and so few who prefer Melee?
Those people only exist on /v/
95% of people who bought brawl either never played melee or are indifferent as to which gameplay is better or dont notice that the gameplay is different at all
You sound like the kind of person who can't accept a loss and has a fragile ego.
anyone who is better than you at something has to have some kind of problem like they're a tryhard or tournyfag.
The thing that you're not grasping is that you can have victory conditions that aren't limited to "be more skilled than your opponent". Roulette has winners, right? The people who bet on the right numbers and colours?
I bet he can't even name a single video game he is good at!
>some guy makes a video game the way he wants it
>some fatass cries about it not being what HE wants it to be and that the guy is WRONG WRONG WRONG for not doing what HE wants on the internet
I'm sorry, what?
>95% of people who bought brawl either never played melee or are indifferent as to which gameplay is better or dont notice that the gameplay is different at all
>indifferent as to which gameplay is better or dont notice that the gameplay is different at all
>indifferent as to which gameplay is better
>dont notice that the gameplay is different at all
Hold on now, that's the point I'M making. So I guess we're on the same page.
>I'm trying to explain how most people's enjoyment of the games goes beyond the struggle for top spot, how it's fun for most just to compete with our favorite Nintendo characters in creative settings with wacky conditions.
>Goes beyond the struggle for top spot-
>it's fun for most just to compete with-
Anon, you are contradicting yourself.
I don't get it. Why is /v/ proud of being casuals at Smash?
Brawl isn't bad because it's not Melee. Brawl is bad because it's a shitty game with an over-emphasis on defensive play that results in players not trying to attack ever, because most of the time hitstun is so low that you can be punished just for hitting your opponent.
I'd be more than happy if Brawl was the SF4 to Melee's SF3, but it's not. It's just shit all around.
I'm enjoying smash while you're complaining about how people are better than you at a thing. If you can't accept that you can lose in life then you need some growing up to do.
>Smash is a casual party game
Because it involves people competing to win, there's a winner and a loser,there are options to play however you want.
It has all the makings of a competitive game aside from you arguing semantics.
I tried to make my point clear. Brawl's competitive scene didn't last and it was shit compared to Melee, yeah. But it still actually had one. And people enjoyed it at tournaments. Did that enjoyment not exist?
>if melee had never existed brawl would not have had a tournament scene
That's a good theory. I believe it too. But that doesn't make Brawl any less competitive if two skilled players are playing to win.
Nowhere did I say my way of playing is the only valid one. You and the rest of the butthurt competitive immediately went on the offensive when I dared suggest that there's enjoyment to be had outside of that.
But go ahead, paint yourself as a victim again.
>But it still actually had one. And people enjoyed it at tournaments. Did that enjoyment not exist?
If you read the Smashboards everyone there was complaining about many of it's flaws and people were at each other's necks constantly There wasn't very much enjoyment and nobody was happy. Also everyone lashed out at winners because items were allowed
>Did that enjoyment not exist
It existed for a while, but the more people played the more they realized that not much was there. Brawl was basically solved in about a year. The game is really boring to a lot of people at a high level. it's why there was such a mass exodus
>its not as competitive. you cant be punished as hard and there is random tripping
Player 1 has priority over all other player slots.
There is 10-12 frames of input lag on everything you do.
Offensive play is completely punished.
Defensive play is dominant.
There are glitches that give you basically permanent invincibility.
Runaway is too strong and you get infinite air dodges.
Metaknight has many 8-2s and 9-1s in the matchup lists and he shits on everyone but Diddy, who is 6-4 in MK's favor.
It's competitive but none of it was handled well.
This is why it died.
>Player 1 has priority over all other player slots
I went to a couple Brawl tournaments in Florida and got my ass handed to me, but I had a lot of fun and so did a lot of people there too.
>Tfw I almost made it out of pools with C.Falcon and people were actually impressed by me when I was just fucking around
>Tfw the first time playing a high level Snake player and getting destroyed because I didn't know what the fuck to do against that shit
So why are you saying nobody was happy? Should I exclusively use internet forums as reference instead of real life experience?
Er... Port priority is pretty much negligible and it exists in all Smash games.
>There is 10-12 frames of input lag on everything you do.
Also, this is not at all true. At all. Like, at all at all. I don't know where this came from even. Like, what?
>There are glitches that give you basically permanent invincibility.
Well, there's Meta Knight's one. And it's extremely difficult to pull off for any extended amount of time.
I don't even like Brawl, I'm just pointing out these extreme inaccuracies.
>Er... Port priority is pretty much negligible and it exists in all Smash games.
It exists much higher in Brawl.
There was a lot of testing done on it and player 1 gets a very large amount of priority. Even moves that would normally clank between P2-P4 would win cleanly beat the opponent as P1
>Also, this is not at all true. At all. Like, at all at all. I don't know where this came from even. Like, what?
Videos showing it.
Constantly brought up.
>Well, there's Meta Knight's one. And it's extremely difficult to pull off for any extended amount of time.
Well to be fair there's also Planking.
>Also, this is not at all true. At all. Like, at all at all. I don't know where this came from even. Like, what?
Before you say that I want you to spend ten minutes researching it before you say things that aren't true, like "Brawl has no input lag"
There are 4 frames of input lag from the game itself. And 6 from wiimotes wireless shit, and if one person uses a wiimote it gives +6 frames of lag t everyone regardless of their controller to even tings up.
Tons of people could abuse planking for near constant invincibility, it got so bad that it's banned from tournaments.
And as far as glitches alone go, Brawl has atleast twice as many as melee.
The irony is that the only mistake Sakurai made was making Melee, if he had never made Melee you fucks would not be complaining. He gave you a taste of the good shit even though he never wants to make the same shit twice. All you can do now is moan and cry and mod his new games so it plays like one of his old games.
>So why are you saying nobody was happy?
It's not nobody.
It was just a much smaller number than what should have been.
> Should I exclusively use internet forums as reference instead of real life experience?
Personal anecdotes doesn't paint a whole picture as a large group of players can provide with their experiences.
Also you have to remember Smash was banned from EVO because of the drama and backlash.
It's funny that you think the January build of the game will be the release build, it's also funny that you don't think customizable movesets, making air dodges more punishable, and the removal of edgehogging doesn't differentiate Smash 4 from other Smash games.
Anon, it's time to just accept it. The final build won't be much different at all.
They aren't going to add in grounded momentum transferring from jumps.
They aren't going to add in less landing lag from aerials.
They aren't going to add in followups form throws.
>making air dodges more punishable
It's only more punishable than Brawl. Melee's air dodging put you in freefall state.
Smash 4 only punishes you if you do it near the ground. Outside of that it is able to be used multiple times in the air.
Just correcting you a bit.
I know I'm late, but what kind of bubble do you live in?
This thread is pretty much the first time since Brawl's release that I have seen anybody bring up Melee in any (non Melee exclusive) topic for reason other than to complain about the newer games.
The Melee fanbase is by far the most spiteful bunch there is. I have never seen a worse one in gaming, and the closest other ones are way more justified too.
>Mechanics unique to the game
Literally only the edge grab change and the pivot attacks right now.
You can not know this because a metagame has not been established yet. This is something players form.
>>if it's not like Melee it's clearly like Brawl,
its very clearly like brawl, all of brawls degin choices and problems are here
>Design choices from brawl still here:
Floatiness (yes slightly less floaty than brawl)
Momentum doesnt carry into the air when you jump
Lack of hitstun
You go into your grounded mode before you actually touch the ground
Crouch canceling gone
You go to far at low percents and not far enough at high percents
Sheilds to good an option
Crazy good recoveries
Can move to far in the air from no momentum
There were tons you fuck
>Characters can grab the edge facing the other way
>Can no longer cancel a meteor smash immediately
>Footstool jumping gives everyone a spike that takes skill to do
>New air dodge is more beginner friendly
>Pummeling is faster thus more damage for punishing
Im just posting facts
but oh if D1 says so it must be true
D1 was being nice on camera, nintendo have hired him for 2 events now i think
Lots of smash players (melee and brawl) have said its very much brawl on camera
Listing, swimming and gliding?
Swimming doesn't affect anything at all. And gliding in brawl is broken on an inherit level that allows you infinite recovery, vertical and horizontal.
If he just came out and said
>what do you think of the game
>the gameplay is brawl
you know how much hate he would get from retards? "oh you're just saying its like brawl because you hate it and you hate brawl, tourney fag!!!!!!!!!"
They probably will not eat it up because there is most likely going to be a much better skill than the others available and possible crazy imbalances depending on the skill.
However if it does get accepted I think it would be a potentially neat addition provided there is some sort of balance to it.
Sakurai has said that balance is not a focus in Smash 4 because it's a party game.
>There was a lot of testing done on it
What testing? I'd be fascinated to know about this.
>Videos showing it.
>Constantly brought up.
What videos? Brought up where?
>Well to be fair there's also Planking.
Yeah you've got me there. Although that's not so much a glitch as it is a broken technique.
There's the universal one-frame input lag glitch/obscurity, and then the physics one if that's not the same thing. So that's one frame, then a possible one more for physics-related inputs.
>4 frames of input lag from the game itself
>6 from wiimotes wireless shit
Wiimotes have a few MILLISECONDS of input lag, could that be what you're thinking of? It's not six frames
>if one person uses a wiimote it gives +6 frames of lag t everyone regardless of their controller to even tings up.
Planking was a problem, that's true. Fixed with a ledge grab limit, like 50 regrabs or something. Again, I don't follow Brawl, I'm not 100% sure. Not important, though, that's not what we're discussing.
>And as far as glitches alone go, Brawl has atleast twice as many as melee.
Also not what we were discussing.
I've spent this time researching and found absolutely nothing to support your claims.
Watching that video, that doesn't seem very new.
Pivots were all over the place in 64 and very easy to do.
I know they are fairly easy to do in PM as well, pivot grabs are easy mode, and pivot smashes are also easy, tilts are kinda hard though. Don't remember if they took the mechanics form Brawl or Melee though.
Sorry, but I tend to believe D1 over you guys, no offense. He's actually spent a good amount of time with the game. He actually DID say it was like Brawl when he first played it but that some character felt like playing Brawl and some characters felt like playing Melee.