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The Melee fag hivemind is never gonna fucking...
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The Melee fag hivemind is never gonna fucking end if people like this are gonna constantly ignore the improvements to Brawl and keep comparing it to fucking Melee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLBhITCRBtY
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>>257347558
Brawl didn't have any gameplay improvements compare to Melee, what the fuck are you talking about?
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I'm just wondering who he's catering to with the slower speed if even the casuals are complaining that SSB4 is slow. Maybe the Japs can't keep up? They're so used to VN and RPG pacing, afterall.
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>>257348803
They are? SSB4 looks noticeably faster than Brawl.
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SSB4 looks boring as fuck. Show me a single match where anything exciting happens.

It's like a glorified game of Rock'em Sock'em Robots.
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>>257348803
>everyone says its faster then brawl but not as fast as melee
>no more tripping
>hurr durr brawl 2.0
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>>257349957
>It doesn't have a million hard as balls techniques used every millisecond! 2boring4plebsl0l

Go back to your cave and keep your shitty melee.
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>>257350229
Why don't you show me a match where anything exciting happens, idiot?
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>>257350229
>hard as ball techniques
Wow, really? Casual fags are so fucking spiteful.

Also, you do realize that these techs existing doesn't hurt you in any way, if you're going to play casually, you won't get bothered by it all. You're just being spiteful and hating on a really good game, although not perfect, did a lot of things right.
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>>257347558
>improvements to Brawl
Items? Yeah.
Characters? Yeah
Content? Yeah.
Physics? Hell no.
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>>257347558
>too slow
>but it's faster than brawl!
Meleefags are the worst
>>
>more AE-kin
>smash bros MEE-LEE

what the fuck am i listening too
>>
Honestly, why does it matter that it has to be like Melee? All other fucking genres of fighters and shooters all use the lastest version. Why are Smash fags so obsessed with the past?
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>>257347558
Hew said it was faster than Brawl at least.
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>>257347558
you posted the worst thing to prove your point, max is a retard who did not even consider smash a fighter till last years evo, this guy loves mk9 for its story mode and the said he never even saw it, the same guy who said he hates blazblue but is planning to play it after this years evo. he just spouts bull shit

"Platinum games Korra plays like bayonetta" except it plays like anarchy reigns, you could have even fucking posted a link to a autistic smash player and got a better answer.
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>>257351070
because Sakurai can't top his own thirteen-year old game and his fanbase is pissed about it
>>
Spiteful casualfags everywhere tonight.

>>257351070
People play all the games, both competitively and casually. Stop trying stir up shit.

The main reason why Melee is usually the headliner or the one with the most exposure in the competitive scene is because it's got the best physics and mechanics available. It's not perfect, but Brawl sure as hell isn't an improvement.
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>>257351070
>Why are Smash fags so obsessed with the past?

I honestly believe it's just a nintendo fan thing. Most of Nintendo's appeal is for it's retro feeling games; if it ain't broke don't fix it (or something like that).
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>>257351317
The majority of people aren't pissed.
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So when is the Project M team gonna make their own original "fighting" game? it's only a matter of time before one of them gets the idea in their head
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>>257347558
I don't get why Smash 4 needs to be Melee 2.
Each game should have a different feel to it, they're supposed to be new entries in the series; not sequels. Why the fuck can't meleefags just stick to playing melee?
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>>257351585
do you really want a roster of nothing but slightly different fox and marth clones?
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>>257351585
I already have an "idea", I just don't know how to actually make games. Anybody can have an idea.
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>>257351554
I haven't heard a single good thing about Sm4sh save for the roster and everybody I know feels the same way

>>257351585
the pmbr is comprised entirely of technical guys and scrubs who don't know how to correctly balance a Smash game
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>"m-m-m-m-muh melee ! ;__;
>"m-m-m-m-muh 14 year old game! ;__;"

fucking tourneyfags jesus christ
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>>257351763
Smash 4 single handedly kept the GameCube controller alive, that's a plus.
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Why are you only allowed to be a casual with smash?
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>>257349957
Everything has the same up-and-away knockback with no hitstun, it's just people taking turns hitting each other to far-but-not-far-enough-to-die distances over and over again until one of them croaks. They can speed it up as much as they want, but by that virtue alone it's still 95% Brawl. People complain about Meleefags wanting "Melee 2.0" or not being able to adapt to a new game, but 4 is more like Brawl than any other entry has been to any other game in the series. I'd rather have a drastic departure from Melee and Brawl, than this. I can see myself getting bored with it fast after the new game smell wears off. It feels like the same old Brawl I put hundreds of hours into and long since got sick of.
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>>257352128
oh hey, I knew I must have forgotten something
hopefully that dongle will work for PC in some capacity, that'd be another beautiful outcome of this whole debacle
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It's faster than Brawl and removed tripping, I have no other problems with it
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>>257352146
Because it's a casual game, if you want to make it hardcore why don't you also make stupid rules to make angry birds competitive?
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>8 years later
>people still defend brawl
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>>257351945
>it's not okay to like the older DMC games and dislike the reboot
>it's not okay to like playing the CS1.6 instead of CSGO
>it's not okay to like anything older than what's out right now

Why are you such a spiteful faggot? Did some melee-fag fuck your mom or something?
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>>257352146
Because Sakurai is the casuals' champion! It's a casual revolution! Down with all those jerks who think they're better than us just because they have good reflexes and coordination!

Down with ableism!
Down with the establishment!

We ARE allowed to have fun with video games too!
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>>257352462
Brawl is terrible with it's decisions. Smash 4 is not Brawl though.
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>>257352451

being a casual game doesn't excuse shit physics
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>>257351740
Hey I didn't say I wanted it, just that it seems likely. been watching some Project M matches lately and it seems to have this air of "We Made This Ourselves" about it

>>257351759
I can't tell if you just completely missed the point or just choose to focus on that

>>257351763
I actually think they could make their own game if they really wanted to. The problem is it would probably fail as they realize the people who want Smash to be the way they want it to be are a minority in this broken community of ours
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>>257351735
because autists want nintendo.
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>Max

The Pewdiepie of the FGC.
Dude... wait, no I'm sorry, was it "dood"? Anyway, "dood" is hopping on the Smash bandwagon and doing his best to parrot the community he's never been a part of just to get views and attention, since Smash is "hip" again after getting on EVO.

He doesn't know shit, he is just trying hard to pretend he represents the FGC when he is a god damn joke.
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>>257352447
This.
If you want anything more just wait for the community to make another Project M of the game.
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I've become addicted to watching project m matches on youtube. I need help
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>people unhappy that Smash 4 isn't tourney-friendly
Why not just go play Project M?
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>>257351735
The defensive oriented play left brawl as an unplayed game in under a fucking year. Balanced gameplay with depth - like a pool that goes from shallow to a deep end - allows for everyone to have a wider variety of fun.
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>>257347558
Yes, things are going to be compared to the best.
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>>257352797
Unlike the real pros at eventhubs, /fgg/ and srk.
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Why would having the new game be similar to Melee be a bad thing?
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>>257353019
Because they need you to know how much better PM is than Smash4 so they don't feel bad about being shunned by Nintendo fanboys

y'know, the same way Broneis only exists because people made them feel bad about liking a show meant for little girls
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>>257353250
It wouldn't, but it's not, and you'll have to accept that eventually.
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>>257353167
or r/kappa/
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>>257350601
Did you even watch the smash invitational there were plenty of exciting matches then
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>>257347558
Lack of jump momentum is fucking garbage.
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>>257353313
>you'll have to accept that eventually

I've always accepted it.
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Melee sucks. go cry somewhere else, tourneyfags. or maybe play a real fighting game that takes skill
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>been playing PM with my bros for about a year now
>recently hung out with my cousin who has brawl but not PM
>me and bro decide to play Vanilla brawl while my cousin figures out how to work PM on his Wii u
>Everything feels slower than I remember
>use samus since shes my main since OG 64
>shes slow as shit and nerfed as fuck; no beam change, can't charge in mid air. Morphball escape is fucking slow as shit and kills the flow of battle and the shot is slow as fucking balls smash attacks can't kill unless high 100%.
>Mfw we get PM working an play a couple of rounds

I was like you brawl purists once until I saw what PM had to offer and I never looked back once I tried it. Just pick it up and feel the improvements for your main/mains and the flow of combat and all the other goods it has to offer theres a good chance you'll like it a lot more than vanilla brawl.
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>>257353391

the only exciting matches was the celebrity one and the megaman final smash. the rest were full of camping faggots. The game looks like brawl speed up
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>>257353313
I'd like smash4 to have a longer life but I guess it is not to be.
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>>257350093
Its like 20% faster at most than brawl. Its 80% closer to brawl, this shit is nowhere close to melee
Sakurai was lying through his fucking teeth, its like saying Germany is half way between France and china
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>>257353652
I've never tried project m before. In fact I haven't played any smash in over a year
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>>257353652
>playing melee:baby edition
Even meleefags think PM is a load of garbage
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>>257353652
But anon, for all it's improvements it takes away the things I like the most about Smash in general
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>>257353405
This is one thing that does bug me. I'm no tourneyfag but it feels so jarring to be running fast and then jump at walking speed.
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I'll be completely honest, I love going for tournaments to Smash 64, Melee, Brawl, Project M, all the same because I've played Smash with my brother since I was super little but I'm fucking sick of Melee. Same game after 13 years just gets so boring, man.
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>>257353935

because it's bad game design
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>>257354051
This is why we need something new with competitive merit. Even if you aren't a tourneyfag, you would finally see Melee replaced if Sakurai accomplishes this.
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>>257354084
Damn straight it is. It's also half the reason Sonic 4 was such fucking garbage.
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>game 1 is a 9/10
>game 2 is a 3/10
>game 3 is a 5/10
>game 3 improved on game 2 why are fans of game 1 so pissed?
Not even a Smashfag but I don't see how this isn't obvious.
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>>257347558
He literally took 7 minutes to say, over and over again, "it's too slow".
>I thought it was too slow
>My friends thought it was too slow
>My wife thought it was too slow
>People on the internet thought it was too slow
>Do you think it's too slow?
>Tell me in the comments if you think it's too slow
>Could they speed it up before release so it won't be too slow?
That video literally contained no information. None. I wasted 6:45 of my life
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>>257351735
I have high hopes for the new Smash 4 game.
And to be honest, Melee has long overstated its welcome. Yeah you can play it with friends, and its fast-paced but with the limited variety the characters in its roster along with its dated graphics, I believe its time to embrace the new Smash game. It has newer characters, newer stages, better graphics, and more newer things to look forward to.

We should be fortunate that we're getting a new Smash game. And judging from recent videos, it looks pretty fast-paced too. Is it as fast-paced as Melee? We don't know until the game comes out but whether it is or not, Its going to be fun to play around with and new strategies will unfold.

Also Casual gamers make up the vast majority of the Smash fanbase. The tourney fanbase is in the minority, although a very outspoken one, which is why Nintendo tried catering to them in hopes that they would propel the momentum elsewhere. However, I don't think that's a very good strategy because in the long run the Melee fanbase tends to be very elitist. Not every Melee/Project M fanboy is but good portion of them are and are very stubborn to part ways with their older game. Until every stage becomes Battlefield/Final Destination with "advanced techniques"(wavedashing, L-Canceling, etc), those guys won't be satisfied and never will be. Nintendo shouldn't cater to them or they'll alienate most of their fanbase.
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>>257354084

No it isn't. Air speed and ground speed are just different values. It wouldn't be fair if characters who were lightning fast on the ground could also be fast in the air. It's like that on purpose for balance reasons.
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>>257354051
You're talking sense, stop it.
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>>257354051
Have you tried Melee doubles?

In all honesty, I jumped in around 2008, and I've seen quite a few changes to the metagame. There's still room for improvement and change.
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>/v/ wants games to be skillful and rewarding
>When it comes to Smash this is a bad thing
I know /v/ isn't a hivemind etc. but why does specifically Smash attract such faggots that enable casual and casual play? If this was any other series such changes would be shit on.
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>>257353405
Sakurai is such an ass for keeping this change, what a fucking moron, even SMB for NES had jump momentum, but Sakurai is too busy filling the game with random bullshit than implement this.
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>>257354283
Does Game 64 not even exist now?
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>>257347558
I think that image is good metaphor for how many people want to pound Lucario both sexually and not.
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>>257354283
Because fans of game 2 like to shitpost which in turn sets of game 1's fans. It's truly disgusting.
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>>257354289
Welcome to Smash vs Smash debates
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>>257354351
Because they want to think they're good at Smash.
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Honestly the game does look really slow and boring and all these goddamn anti melee fags will bitch endlessly so nothing gets fixed. I'mnot some tourneyfag, I've never done a wavedash in my life or cared about competitive at all and this game was disappointing and shit when I tested it. But OHNO anyone who criticizes the game must be some melee fag who hates everything and wants melee 2.0!
Casualfags are the biggest cancer in the smash community cause they willingly accept all the bullshit Sakurai thinks is good causing the game to not get fixed and be shit.
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>>257354307
Don't defend this shit. It's the reason why half the characters in Brawl were straight up shit.
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>>257354374
If I had used Game 2, Game 3, and Game 4, how would my post be different?
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>>257351070
There are still tons of people playing old fighters and shooters because they don't like the newer games. Look at CS 1.6 and source. Or the fact that Evo still has main stage Super Turbo events. Hell, I don't know if Quake 4 ever topped 3.
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>>257353779
Try playing with friends for fun. I still do that with Brawl.
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>>257354180
I know this kid at my school that is a tourney fag, huge jack-ass and smells like trash. He constantly rips on Brawl- yet plays it. There's this computer club at our school, and he'll beat fucking SPECIAL NEEDS KIDS and say "Wow, you suck. Get better"

Fuck that kid. Another weird thing he does is study everyone he plays, like, take mental notes.

Can't we have fun with a game anymore?
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>>257354489

No it wasn't.
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>>257354351
Nintendo series somehow get apologists from everywhere no matter how bad the changes are.

Look at most Zelda games for example, or Other M, though the last example was so intense that a lot of apologists were flamed to complete silence.
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>>257354548
>things that didn't happen.txt
ayy lmao
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>>257354305
Or, they could alienate none of their fanbase. Do you honestly believe Melee was hated by casuals? I played that game for years before I'd even heard that people played it competitively.
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>>257354472
>Irony: the post
EVERYONE is cancer anon. You just became part of the cancer by posting here
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>>257354548
Cool story
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>>257354562
It was among many reasons why characters such as Falcon became straight up unplayable you don't do platforming in games like Smash without momentum it feels and plays fucking awful.
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>>257354346
Haven't gotten a chance, but been trying for it. I did Brawl doubles ever since I got into Brawl (I got into the Smash games about 3 years ago)
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I am very excited to play this video game
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>>257354307

That's bullshit because it worked in the 1st 2 games just fine. Besides that running speed is already independent of air speed for every character. Momentum is a basic physics trait that every game with platforming elements has had since the 1st mario. Not having it is unintuitive, contradictory, and makes the game feel sluggish.
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>>257354305
Agreed, every Smash game should be different from one another. Smash 4 or their upcoming sequels shouldn't aim to be Melee 2.0. If I wanted to play Melee badly, I would have just bought a damn Gamecube, and the game itself. I don't see myself playing such an outdated game however.
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>>257354548
Why did you reply to my post with that story?
>>
it's a good thing this game will suck, so the melee community doesn't have to go and switch

electronic sports could be something amazing. there's almost limitless potential for possible metagames and rulesets. but they will never be taken seriously because every few years some shitty fucking developer feels the need to develop a sequel with tons of actual changes to gameplay. in actual sports like chess or football, there's either no rule changes, or extremely minor and niche ones that only come into place after years of controversy. but with video games, the entire fucking thing is flipped on its head every few years, meaning there is never room for an actual meta to have time to grow

if smash stays on Melee, it might be the thing that changes this
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>>257347558
>that video
>"Mee-Lee"
every time
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>>257354498
Not him, but I actually got confused. I thought you were saying 64 was really underrated and Melee was shit, and then Brawl improved slightly upon Melee. And that there is a big 64 fanbase that's mad that there isn't another game in the same style as 64. I've heard some people say Smash 4 is similar to 64 in style, so I assumed 64 fans were mad at Melee and Brawl fans because they were not happy with Smash 4 being similar to 64.
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>>257354307
But that's bullshit. You can balance faster jump speeds just fine. The same 1:1 usually exists in most fighting games.
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>>257354841
>If Smash stays on Melee and Nintendo decides to help the community
ftfw
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>>257354305
>it's over stayed it's welcome
No. It's a great game, that isn't perfect but did a lot of unique things.

>you can still play it with friends
You can still play all the Smash games with Friends, but competitive smash will remain centered around Melee.
>limited characters
Still more viable and useful that Brawl's.

You also talk a bunch of shit about a community you know nothing about? Really, you think people on want to play on Battlefield an destination? Do you think things like Wavedashing are completely necessary to the metagame for most characters?
Also what's up with the whole elitism thing? Are they barring you from joining discussions or events?
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>>257354823
Shit, my bad
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>>257354764
Let me give several constantly restated reason why you shouldn't
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>>257354841
This is some next level shit. You just wrote a paragraph proposing the idea that all future videogame sequels have no gameplay changes whatsoever.
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>>257354498

It would show that the series went from good quality to shit to decent.
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>>257354867
The only thing similar is that throws are powerful again it plays nothing like 64
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>>257354810
They shouldn't aim to be brawl either.

>>257354307
Smash is a competitive platformer. The best platfotmers have conservation of momentum.
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I'm taking melee fags less seriously every day that passes.
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>>257354867
Anyone who claims that Smash 4 is anything like 64 has never played 64 at a competent level. The games aren't anything alike.

The game is clearly closest to Brawl. I don't know how people debate this.
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>>257354810
And yet the game aims to be Brawl 2.0 and everyone here defends that.

If it WAS Melee 2.0 they'd all be just as butthurt as the Meleefags are now.
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>>257354718

Falcon was shit because he had no priority on his moves and couldn't combo off of anything. Scoring kills was also an issue.
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>>257355065
cool story bro
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>>257355091
>priority

The game favoring defensive play with unsafe approaches and loss of momentum sunk falcon.
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>>257355081

It's not Brawl 2.0. It's not Melee 2.0. I'm sure if you weren't fucking trash at either game you'd know this.
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>>257354968
But I don't play competitively

I like fun
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>>257355065
So is that everyone that doesn't like Smash 4 then? Or just everyone with a different opinion than yours.
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>>257354969
for multiplayer games designed for competitive play, yes

yes I fucking know that melee wasn't designed to be competitive
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>>257354969
Change for the sake of change isn't always good. They should make balance changes, but the shit that happened from Melee to Brawl was mostly garbage changes.
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>>257354283
>Game 1 is a 9/10
>Game 2 is a 9/10
>Game 3 is a 3/10
>Game 4 is a 5/10
>game 4 improved on game 3 so why are fans of games 1 and 2 so pissed?
That's what you meant.
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>>257355201
OK there buddy, despite dozens of impressions of the game from people who played it saying it's closer to Brawl than any other game in the series.
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>>257354785

And thats why Fox, Marth and Falco are top tier in Melee.

They dominated the ground and air game. Anyone else excelled at one element but flopped in the other (dubbed: balance).

Sakurai is doing us all a favor by getting rid of top-tier-Fox.
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>>257355208
Why do you imply they are mutually exclusive?
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>>257355230
People that suck melee's dick and hate anything that isn't melee only because it's not melee and won't even consider any change or see the positive side of any change because if it is not melee it is shit to them.
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>>257355201
It is very close to brawl though. Loss of momentum and unsafe attack approaches are strikingly similar.
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>>257354648
As I said, the Smash Bros fanbase has always been casual, Melee's fanbase was casual before moving on to Brawl. Brawl is still widely played and more than Melee however, Melee gains more presence because of how outspoken tourney players are in contrast to casual fans.

From a tourney fan's perspective, Brawl was an "inferior" product to Melee because of the game's mechanics. However, most casual gamers never cared about how fast-paced melee was or its "advanced" techniques because they just wanted a game to have fun with.

Most people play with items on on a variety of stages which is why it was already fast-paced to them. There wasn't much in worries about "tier-lists" because the characters flaws/weaknesses could easily be compensated with items, and irregardless of their strength, anybody could win because the items/Final Smash were the wild card of the battle.
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>>257355373
Because people will respond every single time.
>>
So why hasn't Project M been hit with a C&D yet?
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>>257355341
Fox only started winning tournaments a very short while ago. Falcon and marth come nowhere near the speed of, say, falcon or other characters that benefited from said conservation of momentum.
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>>257355341
Real talk?
Fox should have been banned in melee.
He had way too many unique or powerful tools, too many strengths, no real weakness, he was just too good and on a league of its own. Other characters took ages to develop their metagame to compete with him and even then it was always an uphill battle by extremely skilled players trying to match Fox's OPness.
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>>257355502
From what we know Nintendo finds it interesting, or they don't want bad press for shutting down a popular mod.
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>>257355386
So a group that doesn't exist but you'll generalize and smear all over everyone to for your personal narrative. Gotcha.
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>>257355386
You're an idiot who will argue for only your perception of what you think someone who disagrees with you thinks.

If Brawl tweaked on Melee's physics a bit, didn't remove mechanics and actually balanced the cast while adding new characters no one would be angry.

But you will never listen to actual reasoning because you're a spiteful and angry faggot.
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>>257355576
Someone is going to seriously respond to this post so I'll give it a 6/10.
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>>257355386
Calm down, man. I know it's hard to hear this, but don't take everything you read on /v/ so seriously. A lot of the big meleefags have said they don't expect this to be Melee 2 and that's fine, they just want it to have merit. But because /v/ tends to shit on everything they don't like, people take any form of negativity as "OH IT'S NOT MELEE"
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>>257355335

Anyone that was experienced in Brawl has told me the opposite.

>>257355397

You won't know about good approach options until the metagame actually develops.
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>>257355196
Falcon has always been shit, though
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>>257354305
>overstated its welcome

"OVERSTAYED", YOU FUCKING MONGOLOID.

YES I MAD.
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>>257355373
Because I never see competitive-anything players having fun

They're always frustrated and tense and angry and shit talk each other
>>
>>257355407
>brawl is played more than melee

But it isn't. Sakurai even lamented this fact.
>>
>>257355407
You didn't really address the point that it can be both. Are you saying that implementing competitive elements in Smash 4 will drive away casuals? Do you honestly think casuals care about gameplay depth?

They see Megaman and Mario fighting and they go and buy it, that's the very reason they're called casual. Adding competitive elements would help bridge the gap between two very fractured communities.
>>
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>>257355576
>>
>>257355502
Even if they do, people will still play.
>>
>>257355407
Brawl gets played more only because it is newer but overall Melee managed to be much more popular when it was new even among casuals.
Brawl physics were not fun and got annoying fast. It's still ok as a party game once every now and then with friends but it failed to get people hooked enough to care about the game and play it seriously, and I don't mean tourneyfag level serious but just like normal people that play with their friends but still try to do their best when they fight.
>>
>>257355341

>jigglypuff
>peach

Besides that none of them benefited from momentum the most. Falcon is the posterboy for it. Shine being stupidly useful is why spacies are so good. Marth having more range than god is why he is so good. You talk like someone who knows nothing about the game.
>>
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>>257355751
OH BOY LET'S REV UP THOSE GIFS AND WEBMS
>>
>stop bitching about smash 4
>play project m
>wait until someone mods smash 4 to be melee as well
>problem solved
>>
>>257355631
You're wrong and you are exactly what you say I am.
It's all basically the other way around.
Good job proving that meleefags are the cancer.
>>
>>257355502
It would be VERY bad PR. It's too popular.

Hell, they even invited some PM players to the E3 Invitational. I think peachyhime literally only played PM.
>>
>>257355751
>>257355840
http://youtu.be/lXNZsBJmjnA
>>
>>257355081
Nobody knows until the game comes out. Whether its Brawl or Melee 2.0, who fuckin cares. Let's just be glad we're getting a fuckin game released. Look at the Fallout crowd, they've waited 6 years after the release of Fallout New Vegas and they still haven't gotten a game from Bethesda. At least we're getting a new game.

And if you don't like it just stick to your Project M/Melee whatever you like while the rest of us patiently wait for the arrival of this game.
>>
>>257355896
Why is he a meleefag? Because he said the word in his post?
>>
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>>257355751
>>257355840
>>
>>257355989
That massive overreaction was way too defensive.
>>
>>257355851
That doesn't solve anything. I still need to be able to tell Smash 4 players how much better I am than them.
>>
>>257347558
>gamefeel

dropped
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>>257355851
>problem solved
>thinking this will change anything
>>
>>257355980
It's a product I'm paying for not a charitable gift, I'm not going to be elated and grateful someone tried to sell me a product...
>>
>>257355967
they're both loveable little autists
>>
I don't understand it. Casuals claim to love the slower pace and love anything that fucks over the competitive side, but if you're a REAL casual Smash player, why the fuck would you care?

You're not a casual the second you begin to compare games, because a real casual doesn't know the difference between Melee and Brawl, and a real casual doesn't feel any difference when using Captain Falcon in Melee and using him in Brawl because it's all the fucking same.

I suspect it's all just to shitpost.
>>
>>257355502
It would be like if Blizzard issued a C&D on DOTA back in 2006.
>>
>>257356056
why does the guy not playing at all look the most upset after that round?
>>
>>257355896
>literally no arguments except "no u"

Most "Melee-purist" don't exist and you're fighting a boogeyman. Also how am what you're stating, I play the 3 games and the mod a lot and I love all of them, but I can also criticize different aspects of them without getting pissed like you.

People are not angry about it being different, it's about lacking actual improvements to the balancing of the game, and making the mechanics and physics fit.
>>257356057
Naw, you're just a fucking retard. Enjoy fighting your boogeyman.
>>
>>257356057
Sounds like Sakurai when he was making Brawl amirite?
>>
>>257356224
The first time I replayed Melee after playing Brawl, I thought it felt too fast and too heavy.
>>
>>257356224
>I suspect it's all just to shitpost.

And it works every time.
>>
>>257356241
That would have been a good thing though
>>
>>257356263
pure shock trying to fathom what he's just seen

hax has the greatest facial expressions
>>
>>257356057
And meleefag is way overused. Think of a new insult.
>>
>>257356285
Keep saying the same shit, that won't make it true.
We've all seen the meleefags here before. Pretending they don't exist is bullshit.
>>
>>257356329
The first time I replayed Brawl after replaying Melee after replaying Brawl, I thought it felt too slow and too floaty.
>>
>>257356224
This is a video game board on 4chan, there's no real casuals here.
>>
The reasons these threads work so well is because when casuals shitpost there's no real harm because it's a joke and nobody on /v/ could possibly admit to being this casual about video games, but when tourneyfags shitpost all hell breaks loose and it's just those elitist tourneyfags ruining everyone's fun again.
>>
>>257356329
>too fast

Why do you hate fun?
>>
>>257356407
There are more Brawlfags/casualfags than anything else. That, or they're a really fucking loud minority.
>>
>>257356371
If the glove fits.
>>
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>>257356512

>he's never played with /v/

most people here are shit except those 2 guys and me. Doesn't matter what game
>>
>>257356556
So you're saying it's okay to shitpost?
>>
>>257356329

This. THIS is what I don't understand.

No one said that shit when melee came out.

Fucking no one, even my 6 year old sister could play melee. It's only years after Brawl came out that people suddenly started thinking melee was too fast.
>>
>>257354648
It was never hated until Sakurai and Nintendo started pushing their revisionist history where Melee was an impossibly complex game that casuals could not get into at all.

Say what you will about Melee and autism and whatever, there is no other game out there that has seen a revival like Melee's.
>>
>>257356407
No, you're a piece of shit, and a sorry excuse for a human being. I've seen "meleefags" criticize aspects of the newer games, not complain about how it's not Melee HD.

There are plenty of people, regardless of good they actually are, that wanted meaningful improvements and balancing. Spiteful people like you are the actual cancer to series, because you're strawman anyone who disagrees with you, you trash talk people who play differently than you or those who play on a different skill level. People like you who condemn others for having fun while playing a "hurr a 14 year old game".
>>
Sometimes I feel like the only person who had problems with both Melee and Brawl and is hoping Smash 4 is a nice balance between the two of them
>>
>>257356723
But hardcore gamers suck at video games, they spend their time and acquire skills on "debating" over message boards about how wrong everyone else is instead of playing video games.
>>
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>Side A can't grasp how Side B loves Brawl, flaws and all, more than Melee/PM
> Side B thinks Side A is out to ruin their fun by making everything boring and controlled, when really they just want improved features that they feel needs to be in the game for it to be considered serviceable

In summary
> Side A holds painfully high standards to idealized perfection but means well
> Side B can't seem to state their feelings without getting overly defensive and picking out shitposters as though they represent Side A
>>
>>257356723
I know /v/ is terrible at games, but being shit at games doesn't mean you're casual, it means you're shit at games.

A actual casual doesn't go on video game forums and argue gameplay with people online.
>>
>>257356847
Yet you are strawmaning me harder than I ever did.
>>
>>257356867
Sure.

Even as a tourneyfag, I'm excited for Smash 4 because it seems like what Brawl was always meant to be, a more casual experience to fall back on whenever I'm burnt out from melee, not a slow abomination that shat all over HAL's legacy.
>>
>>257356921
Side A can grasp it though. Side A just wants them to admit that they like the game for shitty, superficially reasons and that they need to get off their high horse and stop thinking that having Sakurai's dick lodged in their throat makes them a better person.
>>
>>257356941
>you're strawmanning me

No I'm not. You're a literal piece of shit. More than likely a petty person who derives pleasure from shitposting.
>>
>>257357139
Then stop responding to him.
>>
>>257357103
Shitty, superficial reason such as?
>>
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>>257356935
>but being shit at games doesn't mean you're casual

Only on /v/
>>
>>257351070
What does something being old have to do with anything?
>>
>>257357320

More stuff is better. It's basically the entire brawl argument
>>
>>257357365
You can be complete ass at games and still play them a ton, it just means you have no skill. Look at most of people here.
>>
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>Smash
>A game where you are given enough options to basically control just about everything for a match so you can play the way you want to play.

>Has by far the most shit flinging of any game out there based soley from the fact that people don't play the game the same wayy you play it.

You play 1v1 fox only final destination? You're a faggot.

You play 4 man FFA coin match with only pokeballs on very high on pokefloats? You're a faggot.

You play 1v1 with a friend all options on default with a random stage? You're a faggot.

You play some weird custom game mode you came up with? You're a faggot.

How does this happen?
>>
>>257357320
>Brawl is better because it has more of everything, regardless of whether or not any of that content that there is more of is actually good
>Brawl is better because it includes this character, no matter if that character is fun to use in the physics of the game, no matter if that character is balanced, no matter if the entire roster is balanced
I can give you more.
>>
>>257354289
thats max for you, he extends his stupidity on a subject to 5-8 minutes. "oh shoot korra by platinum gotta make a vid"

it plays like bayonetta
from what I played its pretty much bayonetta
the controls are like bayonettas
the gamplay is just like bayonetta

I played the same demo and it plays like fucking anarchy reigns and nothing like bayo
>>
I would forgive it all if the game had real combos, which have been a thing since Smash 64. But no, Sakurai removed that, too.

I await the next Smash game, where you can't dash or shield anymore because Sakurai thought it was necessary.

There was no real reason to change the physics from Melee. The floaty and slowness is all because Sakurai wants casuals to keep up, which they could already do with fucking Melee because the only people who actually play Melee at a pace difficult to follow are the super pro players who hang out at tournaments anyway, so no casual will ever experience that.

Sakurai is a fucking hack, and it pains me to see how people are totally alright with him making shit more casual for no reason, while shitting on every other dev that does the same. It's all bitter hate for the competitive scene while Sakurai slips away in the chaos of all that shitposting and ends up unscathed.

It's gonna slow down until it looks like fucking PlayStation All-Stars levels of shit, and you're all gonna eat it up and forgive Sakurai because it's "just a party game", which is his own little personal bullshit argument when people question his design choices. His own little "get out of jail, free" card to protect himself from getting called out.

I'm not getting this shit. And before you shitpost about it like I know you'll do, no, I'm not a Meleefag or a competitive player. I'm a guy that liked Smash before it turned into this shit. Brawl started it all but holy shit it was just the start.

The only improvement in Smash 4 over Brawl is the graphics and overall colors. The combat looks like shit. Sakurai should just remove all neutral stages and just force everyone to play with items and on hazard stages because that's the only time the game looks interesting and fun. Even the fucking adventure mode thing looks bland as fuck, another Subspace Blunder.

I'm done with Smash until it gets a competent director.
>>
>>257357484
People want reaffirmation that their playstyle is the 'true' one.
>>
>Melee is faster
>Melee is better
Then don't fucking buy the new one. Why are you people complaining. It's SAKURAI'S game. Not yours. You don't have to get it.
>>
>>257357320

I have never heard a pro brawl argument, all I've ever seen the casual elitists do are call people who play project m tourney fag babbies, and that the new game is good and if that melee was already made so go play it.

I have never seen a someone mention something positive about brawl, aside from characters, stages, and items and whatnot but I don't think that's really the case of the argument.
>>
>>257357484
None of those happen other than the first one though. I've never once seen a tourneyfag here say that a person is playing the game wrong because they are doing a FFA with items on some scrolling stage.
>>
>>257356241
>aborting MOBAs
>a bad thing
>>
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>>257356263
That guy is /v/ personified
>>
>>257357320
Everything not related to core gameplay such as more music, SSE, cool cutscenes, better graphics. That's all great stuff, but if the core gameplay is worse, it's all superficial in the end.
>>
>>257357620
>criticism shouldn't exist guys!
>don't give your opinions about video games on video game discussing boards!

How far is Sakurai's dick lodged up your ass?
>>
>>257355602
The Melee EVO fiasco made them realize finally that this is a different time and they can't boss their fans around anymore.
>>
>>257357539
Sakurai does some dumb troll shit and /v/ sucks his dick and forgives him for being a hack developer. I don't know why Nintendo thinks he's so core to the Smash franchise when HAL was what made the first two games great.
>>
>>257357539
Is this copypasta?

Because I can't believe someone took the time to write this misinformed piece of text without trying to troll.
>>
>>257356263
>>257357782
Because, just for a brief moment, he regretted his switch to Fox and wished to return to Falcon. However, his 20XX mindset promptly squashed that idea.

It's ironic, the best Falcon main in the world is also one of the only ones who hate playing as him.
>>
What if they just add a turbo option that speeds up the game?
>>
>>257347558
I'm one of those faggots who enjoyed both of those games. Then again I never approached smash brothers with the like super competitive mentality. I just play it with friends and have a good time.
>>
>>257357913
I said neither of these things
Also, proper criticism is criticizing what a game has. Not what it doesn't. Right?
>>
>>257358012
Because speeding up the game doesn't change the engine so all the flaws the game would have still exist?
>>
>>257358012
Speed is just one issue people have with the game.
>>
>>257358012
That's been in every game since Melee.
>>
>>257358012

There is already a lightning option in melee/brawl. It literally just makes the game play twice as fast.

And it's a shit option that no one plays with because it's not fun and just makes the games control even worse and doesn't solve any problems.
>>
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So, /v/. Now that we can all agree that Smash 4 is anti-hype, who are the remaining characters?
>>
>>257347558
>In my opinion, game feel is very important

This is comedy right?
>>
>>257353038
>unplayed for a year
you mean tournament wise? I played brawl for like 6+ years with friends.
>>
>>257358068
How is that proper criticism, you should absolutely criticize something for being lacking.
>>
>>257358068
So I can't criticize DmC because if lacked many features standard to the series/genre and being overall worse.

Also yes you did.
>>
>>257358157
Nobody.

They should focus on making the game they have no perfect and stop wasting time creating lifeless, generic new characters.
>>
>>257358068

When a game doesn't have things that previous installments (or even other games in the genre) did its fine to criticize it. it's something people shit on EA for all the time
>>
>>257358229
No, he obviously meant you and your friends when he said that.
>>
>>257358329
Because when EA does it it's bad but when Nintendo does it it's okay.
>>
>>257358157
Iori, Fruit Ninja and Marcus Fenix.
>>
>>257358068
Wrong, you imbecile.

By your logic, DmC is a perfectly fine game even though it stripped out much more than it added

By your logic, RE5 is a good game even though it cannibalized any semblance of horror or tenseness that the series still clung to after

By your logic, everything that has happened in gaming in the past 5 years is acceptable

You're wrong.
>>
>>257351070
melee is literally the third strike of smash
>>
>>257358421
Nintendo can suck dick and I'll still love them.

Fuck EA, I hope they die.
>>
>>257357539
>Sakurai is a fucking hack

Says the guy on 4chan that has never done anything of worth his life. You know what irony is, boy?
>>
>>257358229
Not him but yes it didn't last very long in tournaments.

It would have made the more competitive players happy if it didn't have mechanics made to be hostile to players.

The game was made to shit on offense in every way.
There is also planking and you get punished if you try to play offensively unless you're Metaknight.

The way the game turned out is
1) Get life lead
2) Run away

The person chasing you is fighting a losing battle.
Hard.
>>
>>257347558
>ignore the improvements to Brawl
so brawl IS shit, now that smash 4 is "better" than brawl, will smash 5 be better than smash 4? take a guess.
make something shit and then make something less shit, that way you can never move on to improve your product.
>>
>>257358486
All of those are impossible.
>>
>>257358534
DmC is fine. There, I said it. You are just mad because 'muh Dante'. Team Ninja is a good, competent company. Sorry.
>>
>>257358332
I don't see how you can measure a games popularity just because it's not particularly popular with tournaments.

The point I was making is there could have been tons of local play like with me and my buddies.
>>
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>>257347558

At the very least, he acknowledges that he warmed up to the games playstyle after a while. What you say is true, though. There's a childish mentality in the melee community that speed is the only thing that matters in Smash, which is most likely why they're ridiculed by the greater competitive community at large.

Here's some good examples. Two of the msot popular competitive games right now are Marvel v. Capcom 3 and Street Fighter 4. MvC is based around fastpaced combat and the combo game, while SF is slower and has a greater importance on proper defense and the punish game.

The two play as different as night and day, yet they are both respected because of the depth their systems allow. Meleefags don't give a shit about systems, though. All they want is speed to hold their short attention spans. In the US, Brawl has been mostly abandoned competitively because of this, but in the Japanese scene, it has flourished due to dedication by the playerbase over there. Look up some Japanese Brawl doubles matches, they're surprising complex and very enjoyable to watch.

TL;DR Meleefags are cancer.
>>
>>257347558
>The Melee fag hivemind
But anon, the hivemind has switched to Brawl. If you speak positively of Melee or P:M, or negatively of any other Smash, you're immediately berated as a "tourneyfag" by the smug casual elitists here
>>
>>257356867
Of course Melee has problems. It just has less than Brawl, but Smash 4 is not looking at all like a balance between the two of them. I continually see apologists say "Let each Smash game be what it is" but they totally ignore how absolutely similar Smash 4 is to Brawl.
>>
>>257358592
I don't see how that's relevant. That doesn't make his opinion any less valid. Calling people out for being bad at their job in a field they have no experience in is something news people do all the fucking time.
>>
>>257358661

You should stick to trolling smashfags, they will argue about anything.

No one who plays Devil May Cry would take you serious for half a second after you posted that.
>>
>Smash on 3DS won't always run things at 60 FPS
>Senran Kagura Deep Crimson runs at 60 FPS with 25+ enemies on the screen and in 3D mode

Come on, Nintendo.
>>
>>257358534
>RE5
>Not the best RE
>Thinking RE was scary and had horror

Holy shit, I was told there were some casuals on /v/ but I never thought it was this bad.
>>
>>257358661
>Team Ninja is a good competent company
>Can't get their simple game running smoothly
>Filled with glitches that hinder the game more than helps it
>Focuses on things that isn't combat when the point of the series is the combat
>Enemies are so nonaggressive that you can sit there for 20-30 seconds on most difficulties without worrying about an attack
>No depth whatsoever
>Bosses are incredibly basic

I don't even give a shit about the story or who the character is.
It didn't play good.

And it didn't sell anyways.
>>
>>257358729
>There's a childish mentality in the melee community that speed is the only thing that matters in Smash
>All they want is speed to hold their short attention spans.
ayy lmao
>>
>>257357320
I have been in discussions and have been told that Brawl is better because it has more characters, stages and music than Melee, and that gameplay does not matter at all.
>>
>>257358661
upboat for you good sir, because you were daring enough to express your righteous opinion on 4chan's /V/ board!

nah your a cunt and you should just leave now before your stupidity is exposed in all of its glory
>>
>>257358729
>while SF is slower and has a greater importance on proper defense and the punish game.

Smash has both of those, you either have no idea what you are talking about or are just trolling.

If anything Fox is really the only top tier character that can get by on aggression alone. And even then it's better to play a punish heavy game style.
>>
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>>257358736

Sweet victims complex you got there, faggot
>>
>>257358534
>RE
>Horror
When I was 6 perhaps
>>
>>257353867
specific stages, a small roster, and slower game pace are THE things you like the most about Smash? Have you ever played a game?
>>
>>257358703
Yeah, but nobody cares about the popularity about local play with a bunch of nobodies, competitive play gets exposure, keeps the brand name in the public eye and recruits more players that get interested in the scene and hence more buyers.

Once the game is sold it's sold, you played it for 6 years, someone else played it for one day, that's the same value to Nintendo.
>>
>>257347558
I agree.
The whole video felt so stupid, and I usually respect Max's opinions.
>>
>>257358916
Not even playing the victim, could care less what they do. But the hivemind has shifted. At least during the hours I'm on.
>>
>>257358729
>SF is slower and has a greater importance on proper defense and the punish game.
The problem is Brawl does not have a proper defense and punish game.
You can not even punish on reaction because of the forced input lag.

Most characters are not nearly fast enough to punish as well.
Offense is punished in all ways.
And that doesn't even address planking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0r0DkNiqxc

Shields were also much more durable than in Melee and 64, and there was not a lot of blockstun.

There is a lot of issues that keeps Brawl from being comparable to SF.

SF also supports defensive play and offensive play and one is not weak compared to the other.
In Brawl defense is the dominant option.
>>
>>257358897

You're a moron if you think defense is remotely important for melee beyond setting up chaingrabs. Most of the complexity of its high level play comes from executing combos correctly or aggressively edgeguarding. You don't know what you're talking about.
>>
>>257358592
So you've never criticized anyone who has more money than you?
>>
>>257354526
Pretty much this. It's just that Meleefags are extremely fucking vocal about it, especially on /v/.
>>
>>257359008
fair enough I guess. I still enjoyed it regardless of it being slower or more turtley
>>
>>257358959
Well, your 6-year old self wouldn't find 5 scary

huh maybe I should've mentioned modern Silent Hill games, I'd like to see anyone defend those games
>>
>>257358729
>brawl's roster is very unbalanced
>removal of mechanics instead of improving them
>floaty
>tripping
>HURR MELEE FAGS

No johny, you are the cancer. I've seen some impressive Brawl footage, but that doesn't make the game amazing.
>>
>>257358853

>Le Tumblr Alien maymay
>>
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>>257347558
>That video
>everyone I've talked to or heard about on messageboards says it's to slow/sluggish

I haven't heard much of this actually. So far I've heard mostly praise fro it being at least slightly faster than brawl. Also I'm not sure if hight movement speeds would be all that beneficial to the 3DS version. Melee ib a fucking 3DS would be the most annoyingly fast shit. I do agree that some moves have fairly large recovery times.

Regardless, it's running at 60, it's faster than brawl, and fanservice just oozes out of it. Guess speed only matters to the competitive crowd. Since some of those invitational battles looked pretty exciting.
>>
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>>257359097

>that match
>>
>>257359097

Nigga what are you talking about?

Next you are going to tell me that Marth, Falcon, and Shiek are aggressive characters and don't depend entirely on a good punish game to get shit done. And that Falcos defensive play with his laser isn't the key to his entire gameplay.
>>
>>257358534
>Playing a game for what it's worth
>Imbecile
Why?
>>
>>257359175
RE 5 enemies are way scarier than anything in RE 1 - 3.
>>
It's pretty sad when the majority of Smash 4's complements are "well at least it's better than Brawl"
>>
>>257359237
Damn my shitty grammar/typos. Going to bed.
>>
>>257359183

Thanks for contradicting yourself, you stupid nigger
>>
>>257359175
We don't discuss those
>>
>>257354351
brawl apologists are the fucking worst
>>
>>257357793
Sad that this was the only good response
>>
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>>257359363

Most people don't even realize it. That's the saddest part. I'd expect it anywhere else except /v/
>>
>>257359462
I can understand wanting a higher competitive skill ceiling but I don't think Brawl was unforgivable. I had a lot of fun playing both, I think if you're approaching smash with a super competitive tournament level mind set you should maybe look into other fighting games designed with that express purpose.
>>
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Holy shit this entire thread is like a bunch of atheists crashing into a church, kicking everybody, and then shoving papers that have documented proof that there is no God into their faces
>>
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>>257359363
Smash 4 has the longest development time out of all the iterations of Smash, the fact that it's hardly a step-up from Brawl clearly shows Sakurai and his team's laziness.
>>
I love Melee, Brawl and Project M.

Is there something wrong with me?
>>
>>257359621
A lot of flaws in Brawl are observable at low skill levels.

I am no Melee master but even I felt the lack of true combos and the input lag.
And the floatiness of it all.
>>
It's kind of ironic that the guys that bitch about Melee players have become way worse than them in every regard. Even the guy in the OP video is just like "it's a good game, it's just a little slow and clunky" and people are STILL flipping their shit because somebody said something negative. Meanwhile most actual Melee players just want to play a well made game that everyone can enjoy.

What a terrible fanbase this series has. It's really sad.
>>
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I like 64 the best out of all of them. Isn't it the slowest one?

big fuckin whoop
>>
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>>257359742
Yes
you clearly have high standards, no standards, and unrealistically high standards all at the same time
>>
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>>257359742

Nah, you're a normal person and not a /v/ shitposter. Feel good about that.
>>
>>257359621
Brawl is a poor game at all levels. The hindrances of the engine affect everything you do. I'm not super competitive and I've never been to a tournament. The best thing about Smash is how it relies heavily on platforming elements, and Brawl shat on that too.
>>
>>257359805

>0-death combos: the game
>slow

pick one
>>
>>257359742
Yes
you're posting on /v/
>>
>>257358740
Oh really? What makes you so sure?
>>
>>257359805
64 is faster than Brawl.

64 also has 0 to KO combos in it.
It's pacing is pretty fast anon.

Also it has real fucking awesome combos
>>
>>257359805
It's not slow at all.
>>
>>257359889
But it's not
if you actually play it in the way it was changed to be played, it's still a solid game, flaws and all
>>
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>>257359742
I like this guy
>>
>>257359937
Every single impression and every piece of information, coupled with hundreds of people on this very board actually playing it.
>>
>>257359997
>If you played it the way it was changed to be played
see >>257359095


>Play the way the changes made it to be played
>Planking and running with the life lead
Nice one mate
>>
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>>257359742
what about 64?
>>
>>257359651
False.
It was never about dissing on Brawl players (well sometimes but come on that's endemic of every IP ever).

It was always about criticizing Sakurai's backward design philosophy and the retards who support him
>>
>>257359997
Ok, please elucidate. How exactly am I supposed to play?
>>
>>257359997

It's a mediocre game all-around, but it gets worse when you actually start to get good at it and realize there's no point
>>
>>257360205
1) Get life lead
2) Run away
3) Start planking

Remember to pick Metaknight.
>>
Meleefags will never let go. The adapter for Gamecube controllers for Smash 4 and the Gamecube-shaped classic controllers are proof enough of this.

If Nintendo were smart, they would completely ignore Meleefags, because all Meleefags want is an exact clone of Melee.
>>
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>>257360074
Wow, so you're saying hundreds of people here have played the final version of the game? And even after taking the time to develop a metagame it still plays similar to Brawl? Huh.

Oh wait, nah, you're just a fucking moron, nevermind.
>>
>>257360083
Why is it whenever someone brings up Brawl's altered gameplay mechanics, the first thing people mention is competitive play?
I'd assume nobody in your circles actually plays like that
>>
>>257360302
Nigger a metagame doesn't change speed or physics or lag, holy fucking shit.

How much do you think is going to be changed in the final version that gets released in a month? I'm serious. Please list exactly what you think will be different. The demo verison is all we have to base our opinions on. If it changes for the better, great. If it doesn't, then I guess we're fucked. But it's either discuss the current state of the game mechanics or don't discuss the game at all.
>>
>>257360106
Huh?
>>
>>257360083

Because we all know that's how Smash 4 is gonna play, right? Even though the changes to the ledge game would make this impossible?

Just shut the fuck up if you know you have nothing to add to the conversation.
>>
>>257354305
Or you could just play Project M
>>
>>257360302
"B-but it's a BETA"

Hilarious. I never thought that this would be coming from the words of a nintendrone.
>>
>>257360479
the first smash bros nignog
>>
>>257360351

Because it doesn't get better in casual play. The best option 90% of the time is to wait, shield, then punish. That is shit tier gameplay. You have to play like a complete retard to get any type of excitement out of it.
>>
>>257360479
You can't be serious.
>>
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>Complaining about casuals or Casualization
>In Smash
You are talking about a game made by the creator of Kirby. A man whose life's work has been innovating new ways to casualize video games. In an age where games were getting more and more difficult, Sakurai wanted to make a game that anyone could play and enjoy, even with little-no video game experience. That was Kirby's Dreamland and its sequels. He has gone on record about this. The same philosophy was applied to his N64 fighting game, as an answer to the fighting game genre, whose games were getting less and less accessible every year.

If anything, Melee was a mistake. I'm sure it troubled Sakurai deeply to see what his fanbase did with that game
>>
>>257360351
>Why is it whenever someone brings up Brawl's altered gameplay mechanics, the first thing people mention is competitive play?

>Planking
>Competitive play

Anon, a casual learned how effective planking is.
There is nothing you can really do about it and all you have to do is push down and then jump.

But even if you ignore just that there is still a lot of other things.

>No shieldstun when hit so you can punish real easily
>Infinite air dodges
>Run away too strong on everyone
>Game forces turtling, not encourages it.
>Input lag

Also there's a lot of people in my circles who at different skill ranges.
None of them liked the changes for different reasons.

Even my most casual friend didn't like it because it felt like he was playing in slow motion and laggy.
And he just runs around jumping on everything as Yoshi.
>>
>>257359621

>I think if you're approaching smash with a super competitive tournament level mind set you should maybe look into other fighting games designed with that express purpose.

The only difference between a casual mindset and this fabled "super competitive tournament level" mind set is wanting to actually play the game instead of just hitting buttons until you win. That's it. You learn what works and what doesn't and then play the game like anyone else would. Everything else is just a matter of who learned what faster.

All this other faggotry that gets spouted on /v/ and anywhere else is fabricated nonsense made up from buzzwords and ignorance to make these people feel better about themselves.
>>
>>257360586
Well shit I must be the Smash equivalent of privileged because nobody I've fought plays like that
>>
>>257360436
>Nigger a metagame doesn't change speed or physics or lag, holy fucking shit.

Yeah, but a metagame is required because we have NO IDEA WHAT KIND OF HIDDEN SYSTEMS THE GAME HAS YET, you ignorant fuckwit. You know, the things that make or break the fuck metagame regardless of physics? Just a few weeks ago a new technique was found in the demo that gives more movement options to players.

You really think people had Melee or Brawl completely figured out by their demos? Just fucking kill yourself, dude.
>>
>Huh, Smash 4 seems pretty slow, but other than that its very well made
>Holy shit, fucking melee hivemind is so annoying, oh my god, they never shut up! Fucking tourney fags, I swear!

The game is slow. You don't have to be a try hard to feel the difference.
>>
>>257360489
>Literally hopping into a conversation without knowing what the topic is about

We already know Smash 4 is favoring defensive play again.

But it won't be as bad as Brawl's because now you can actually damage shields and there is no planking.
>>
>>257360278

That has absolutely nothing to do with Meleefags, it's the fact that Nintendo can't make a controller that's worth a shit.
>>
>>257360524
>Lemme just hide behind some /v/ buzzwords, that'll show em!

Nah.
>>
>>257360792

It sounds like the people you play with are too bad at the game to notice what works and what doesn't. Once you realize that defense is way too strong the game gets a lot less fun.
>>
>>257360696
>>257360568
Was their seriously one before Melee?
>>
>>257360739
Sakurai should not be making multiplayer videogames with the ethos that there should not be winners or losers.
>>
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>>257361032
this is b8
please be b8
>>
>>257360792
Because you and the people you play with don't know how to play the game well. You're at the rock bottom of the skill barrel.
>>
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Ok

Just for a small second, let's pretend everyone actually agrees with the arguments stated in this topic and Smash 4 is still slow, Brawl is still terrible, and Melee/P:M are the most playable Smash games

what
does
that accomplish?
>>
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>So many fucking casuals itt
>>
>>257360807

This. These people have pretty much turned into what they hated and can't be reasoned with.
>>
>>257361032
Yes. It came out in 1999. Nobody talks about it because of people screaming about how Melee was God's gift to video games.
>>
>>257360939
>it's the fact that Nintendo can't make a controller that's worth a shit.

The Wii U Pro controller is a fantastic controller. The Classic Controller and Classic Controller Pro were also great. The Wiimote was very well designed. The Gamepad is a very interesting controller.

It's not that Nintendo doesn't know how to make a good controller, it's that stubborn faggots like you refuse to accept change.
>>
>>257361029
>>257361131
Whatever helps your position, I guess
>>
>>257360942
Your words have been spoken by countless people before you and they will be spoken by countless more.
>>
>>257361037
Well, he is, and has been for a long time
>>
>>257361287
No one talks about smash 64 because it is the worst of the series, as the first should be.
>>
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>>257361338
>>
>>257361332
>Nobody I've fought ever used FADC
Do you see what I mean?
>>
>>257361037
>3DS tournament
>doesn't end in sudden death
>clear winner
>clear loser
I hope this is bait.
>>
>>257361516
It isn't bait. Sakurai has spoken at length about how he hates that people with skill beat people without skill. How can you argue that this man should be making multiplayer games?
>>
>>257353652
I had somewhat of a similar experience, I was hating on tournyfags long before PM came out until I actually went back and played brawl. I literally said out loud to myself "holy shit was it always this slow?" Then I ended up going back to melee and PM came out soon after. I love melee but I've been doing PM mostly because I prefer the balanced characters
>>
>>257358157
The remaining characters will be meh 5/10 characters that nobody expected.

Everyone will then pretend that they've always loved the mediocre characters.
>>
>>257361512
Of course, and not that you don't have a valid and reasonable point, but your logic is entirely dependent on the fact that everyone else doesn't know what they're talking about
>>
>>257361029
>>257361131

Does it honestly surprise you that some people don't give a shit about playing optimally and just want to have fun? You're aware this is 80% of Smashes fanbase, correct? Go ahead and ask the average player what Wavedashing or Dropcancelling or Flimflamming is, they don't give a shit because they don't wanna turn a fun game into a job.
>>
>>257361445
>extreme combo potential
>very punishable recovery (no air-dodging)
>hitstun actually matters
>only one semi-clone
>KOs happen at reasonable percentages
You can say it's the worst, but it's not.
>>
>>257361605
They're fun. Have you considered not playing his video games, and instead playing someone else's?
>>
>>257347558
>This game feels really unlike any other Smash Bros.
>Though overall it feels more akin to Brawl

Max doesn't know shit about Smash Bros., he needs to stop pretending to give a shit just because Smash has come to the attention of the mainstream FGC.
>>
>>257361338

Welcome to /v/
>>
>>257361745
If they don't know anything about the game then they probably shouldn't act like they are the authority on what the game plays like.

Just saying.
>>
>>257361449
grr i'm angry now because you were dismissive about my post

I shall now make a post to express that anger, and you will respond with a similar snide post, accompanied with a snide anime reaction picture

Here goes

How does it feel to be as bad as biodrones, anon?
>>
>>257351740
But there are a lot of good characters in the mod that


I can't fucking do this right now I'm too tired and this guy probably isn't in the thread anymore.
>>
>>257361745
Casuals in Smash threads continually talk about playing to have fun. Please fucking tell me what the difference is between playing a match of Smash Bros that you dedicate to "having fun." Do you just fucking jump off the edge every stock, or stand still and let your opponent kick your fucking ass? Or do you actually try to beat them?

Furthermore yes it surprises me when people talk about the game and don't know the most rudimentary techniques. Again it's like if you said "Wow you fucking nerds think people care about FADC?"
>>
>>257361976

K, have a grand time being king of the playground, faggot.
>>
>>257361753
Your response has nothing to do with mine.

How can you argue that a man who designs multiplayer videogames should have the mentality that people should not beat others if they are better than them?
>>
>>257361605
Because when you're job is to make a game everyone can enjoy, and instead a small group people who practice like crazy start scaring the rest of the potential players away because they're intimidated, you have to do something to tip the scales the other way. After making melee, Sakurai entered a zone where no matter what he did, he couldn't win. If he made smash 4 like melee, it'd be deemed try hard garbage by faggots like OP but would only be loved by a small percent of smash enthusiasts. So he made the compromise in the other direction, to appeal to everyone and tell the tourney friends to just learn to make due, because a large group of casual players who will leave the game in a few years and never look back brings in more money than a small group who will play the game for years after its life cycle.
>>
>>257362078
Damn anon, you sound a little butt blasted that you don't understand what you're playing.

It's okay though, there's nothing wrong with playing to have fun without learning anything.
>>
>>257362157
He just wants to work on Mario Party but isn't allowed to.

So Sakurai makes Smash as simple and random as possible to make it fun like his favorite party games.
>>
>>257362178
are you for real arguing that melee was not universally praised or was too hard to play

are you for real arguing that brawl is more conducive to casual play, and if so, please list and explain exactly how this is

brawl still allows good players to shit all over bad players, and no game design will ever, ever, ever change this because that is how ability works
>>
>>257362071

I can't just describe to you what it's like to have friends, anon. It's something you have to have for yourself.

You ever just try not giving a shit about winning? Or do you have to be a tryhard faggot about everything in life? Do you flip out during a game of Scrabble and complain about how Q and X tiles and triple word spaces are OP?
>>
>>257362320
You know what the outcomes of a match of Smash Bros are? Win or lose. That's all. How do you play a game where all you can do is either win or lose any other but trying to beat your opponents?

Again. Do you start up a match with your friends and then jump off the stage, or let your friends kill you? Is that fun? Why is that fun?
>>
>>257362320
You know you can have friends and play to have fun while learning right?

You know you can have friends who play the game and try to get better too, right?

>You ever just try not giving a shit about winning? Or do you have to be a tryhard faggot about everything in life?
You do know that you have to be a tryhard faggot to get someplace in life right?
This is a terrible analogy.

>Do you flip out during a game of Scrabble and complain about how Q and X tiles and triple word spaces are OP?
If you have the letters to make these words that are legit then you earned it.
What's the problem with fucking scrabble, mate?
>>
>>257362320

The point of the game is to win. In smash there HAS to be a winner for every match. There are no ties. There aer no second place gold thanks for trying stars.

The objective is to knock the opponent off the stage and win. That's the most basic task in the game that is done in every single match.

You are suppose to win.

You can play, lose, and still have fun. But that doesn't change the fact that you are suppose to win.
>>
>>257353808
>Sakurai was lying through his fucking teeth
where did sakurai say it was half melee half brawl
>>
>>257353539
1v1 me, faget. I;ll show you skillz.
>>
>>257362572
>In smash there HAS to be a winner for every match. There are no ties
It's actually possible to tie.

It gets a NO CONTEST in the results screen but you both have to KO each other at the same time, then do it again in Sudden Death.
>>
>>257349957
And watching your friends play SSBM is boring as fuck because they suck and don't know what they're doing. What's your point?
>>
>>257362467

What's hard to understand about people playing semi-seriously, without caring about advanced techniques? How far removed are you from the rest of the world that you think I'm talking about just jumping off the platform?
>>
>>257362178
>you have to do something to tip the scales the other way

That can be done without changing the physics and mechanics of the game and removing movement options. It was already in Melee.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Handicap
>>
>>257351763
>I haven't heard a single good thing about Sm4sh save for the roster and everybody I know feels the same way
because you fucking browse /v/ all day where everyone here bitches about it
>>
>>257362729
>What's hard to understand about people playing semi-seriously, without caring about advanced techniques?
People who do this see the flaws in Brawl.
>>
>>257354810
>Agreed, every Smash game should be different from one another.
Different in the fact they BUILD on top of each other in terms of content and gameplay mechanics, not subtract things.
>>
>>257362729
We're not talking about advanced techniques. We're talking about you saying that playing to win is being a tryhard. I ask you what else there possibly is to do in a match other than win or lose. When you play semi-seriously, do you try to win?
>>
>>257355201
It's built in the fucking Brawl engine, how can you say it's not Brawl slightly sped up?
>>
>>257362157
It's quite simple. Not all multiplayer games are strictly about skill-based competition. Mario Kart, one of the most successful series' of all time, has founded its core gameplay on punishing you for playing well and rewarding you for playing poorly. Similarly, Mario Party puts you through extremely long competitions where the deciding factor in victory is basically dice rolls. You can look even further than that, there are loads and loads of board and card games that rely largely on luck, and see even the most skilled strategists unable to get a leg up over little kids.

I realize that competition where skill can be trumped by luck may not interest you. But the concept exists in many forms, and has been popular since before any of us were born. People enjoy it and will continue to enjoy it whether or not you think it has any business being made.
>>
>>257362572

Hey. Here's a little tip. Lean in close so you can hear, alright?

It's entirely possible to play and enjoy the act of playing without winning, especially in a game like Smash bros. where hilarious things can happen in a FFA or items format.

Go play an RTS or something if winning is the only enjoyment you still find in videogames.
>>
>>257356730
Why wouldn't it be alright? Shitposting and anonymity are the only things that separates us from Neogaf.
>>
>>257362987
Mario Party takes skill.
>>
>>257363132

Did you even read my post? I said you play lose and still have fun. But that doesn't change the entire point of the game is to win.
>>
>>257362987
Right, except Smash Bros. is still about the best player winning. Here's the difference between Smash and Mario Party/Kart: The devs of Mario Party/Kart actually build the game around dice rolls or around the losing player getting rewards or extra help or whatever. The devs of Smash SAY that they want worse players to win and then design a game in a completely bizarre way that does lower the skill ceiling marginally, but that still absolutely 100% rewards the better player, in all cases.

This is the problem with Sakurai. He says one thing and then doesn't commit to making his game full on dice roll random bullshit. Instead he just makes the same style of game but markedly worse in all aspects.
>>
>>257363132
He fucking said you can play and lose and have fun but that doesn't change shit about Smash requiring winners and losers. You do realize that in FFA with items you're still playing to win, right? You're still fighting your opponents.
>>
>>257362826

If I can, sure. But that's entirely secondary to having a good time with my friends. As such, we don't commit the time to memorizing advanced techniques in order to get a advantage over one another. We're satisfied with the game as is. How hard is this is grasp for you?
>>
>>257362683
The probability of that is scant, and the only way that happens is through attacking one another, to reaching the overall objective to win the match.
>>
>>257347558
Some idiots impressions? There are lots of idiots saying this shit even though it is obviously brawls gameplay

Look at all the long ass matched from sdcc, some going over 8 minutes, just of single pokes and people dying at %170
>>
>>257357539
>Even the fucking adventure mode thing looks bland as fuck, another Subspace Blunder.
This has to be copypasta. We haven't even seen the slightest fucking bit of adventure mode beyond that one clip of a branching path.
>>
>>257363413
Advanced techniques have shit all to do with this conversation. By having a good time with your friends, what specifically do you mean? Walk me through a match where you're just having a good time. Does it involve you fighting your friends and trying to beat them?
>>
If it's faster than brawl I'm alright with it.
>>
>>257363413
You keep dodging the actual question you're being asked and bring up things unrelated to the topic at hand.
>>
>>257363216
>>257363271
>>257363374

Jesus Christ you people are autistic. I know that's a buzzword around here, but holy fuck how can you be so dense? I actually feel bad for you guys.
>>
>>257363132
>where hilarious things can happen in a FFA or items format.
>LOL SO RANDUM XDDDD THAT BOMB PWN'D U BRO, ROFL
How the fuck did you guys not grow out of playing like that in the first year of play? Me and my friends got semi competitive and dropped the items because playing like that wasn't contrived and simplistic.
>>
>>257363675
>being this autistic
>>
>>257363203
Parts of it do. But then that goes out the window when you land on the "swap stars" event

>>257363271
>The devs of Smash SAY that they want worse players to win
They don't, to my knowledge. Sakurai says he wants the game to be accessible to all skill levels, which has the implication that skill not be the sole deciding factor in victory. That doesn't mean the intention is to reward the loser, it means that unskilled players should still be given a chance at winning through luck. Moreover, all games are designed with a winner in mind. The fact that Smash Bros includes elements of luck does not preclude the possibility of a victor.
>>
>>257363675
>Anons raise a valid point
>YOU GUYS HAVE AUTISM
Kill yourself
>>
>>257363582
>If it's faster than brawl I'm alright with it.

Well it is so far.
>>
>>257363537

Did you not read the beginning of my post? Try again, sparky.
>>
>>257363791
The only element of luck in Brawl is tripping, and that is mitigated by good players too. Again: Sakurai pays lip service to the idea of accessibility and then does nothing with it. He's completely misguided. He actually thinks that he's "leveling the playing field" too which is said.
>>
Hi everyone! Competitive Meleefag here to clear up some misconceptions. And anger. Wow, there's a lot of anger in here.

1. The Smash community readily acknowledges that Melee and Brawl (and 64 and PM, of course) are DIFFERENT games. They each have their own strengths and weaknesses, and thus appeal to DIFFERENT people. Different people like different things.
2. The Melee community readily acknowledges that Brawl is a better casual game. There are more characters, more stages, more items, more game modes, more challenges, and more graphics. Essentially everything the average casual player - that is, the average player - is looking for was done better in Brawl. Competitive players are looking for something else, though, which brings us to our next point.
3. MELEE PLAYERS PREFER MELEE BECAUSE IT HAS ONE ALL-IMPORTANT THING: MOVEMENT OPTIONS. There it is, the secret, the entire reason we prefer Melee. We play Melee because its physics engine offers more ways to get your character around the screen. Being able to move easily and efficiently where and when you want is an incredibly satisfying feeling, and that feeling doesn't have as much of a presence in Brawl. Some people enjoy movement options, so they go to Melee, which has more abundant movement options. Other people prefer the more planning-oriented, defensive type of game, so they go to Brawl. That's all there is to it.
4. Naturally, we thirst for more of this game we love so much. Everyone likes variety, which is why Project M exists. We love Melee, but more is always better, so naturally we project our dreams onto the upcoming title in the series that spawned the game we love.

I am open to questions, comments, and if you just want to hate someone, feel free to direct it my way. Let me help provide insight into the competitive Melee player's mindset.
>>
>>257363823
>Guy asks question
>I answer it
>Keeps asking question because he somehow doesn't understand english

Nah, you actually have autism and you're completely blind to it.
>>
>>257363924
I did read it. You did not answer me. I will repeat my question, for your convenience.
>By having a good time with your friends, what specifically do you mean? Walk me through a match where you're just having a good time. Does it involve you fighting your friends and trying to beat them?
Please specifically answer those questions.
>>
>>257363990
>The Melee community readily acknowledges that Brawl is a better casual game.
No it isn't, matches are slow and all the singleplayer content is worse.
>>
>>257363951
>The only element of luck in Brawl is tripping, and that is mitigated by good players too.
You can't mitigate something that is entirely random.
>>
>>257363413
No one is mentioning advanced tactics but you.

Also, what's the deal with that "if I can" bullshit?

Sounds like you give up exceedingly quickly once things stop going your way, at least from where I am sitting.
>>
>>257362178
>everyone can enjoy
everyone could enjoy melee
>>
>>257363990
When I eat cake I make poop
If I eat poop would I make cake?
>>
>>257363951
>The only element of luck in Brawl is tripping
And items

Another factor in accessibility is the easy to understand and execute controls. As I understand it, the unintentional techniques used in Smash high level play violate this principle by allowing skilled players options that unskilled players don't have.
>>
>>257364138

You never even answered the question. You can not argue against the fact that the point of the game is to win your match.

It's the very most basic core of the game. You can have fun doing silly things along the way, but that doesn't cahnge the end result.
>>
>>257364330
Items can be turned off, thus mitigated. Tripping is the only actual random thing.
>>
>>257359805
64 is the fastest one, you know nothing
>>
>>257363694

>Why aren't your friends like my friends?

Well shoot anon, maybe people have different preferences or something stupid like that. Holy fuck, the delusion is real.
>>
>>257364149
Most casual players don't notice the difference in speed. Single-player content is entirely a matter of opinion.
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The fact that Brawl had a competitive scene at all should convince people that it was a fun game that could still be enjoyed at a high skill level. If the game wasn't fun to play, then I don't think so many tournament players would bother with it for so long.

So why are you people trying to speak for the competitive scene when the competitive scene still played Brawl, is playing Project M, and likes what Smash4 is bringing so far?
>>
>>257364330
Brawl's controls are IDENTICAL to Melee's.
>>
>>257364138
Jesus Christ dude, have you even graduated high school? You're reading comprehension is abysmal. You dodged or just straight up didn't understand their point entirely, acted like you retorted to it, and then got made when you were told you missed the point.
You're the one with autism, if anybody.
>>
>>257364225
I am not an expert on the subject, but I don't think so.
>>
>>257363791
Chance Time can be timed correctly so you don't lose your shit.
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>>257363990
>I am open to questions, comments
Holy USI Batman
>>
>>257364424
Why do you think that anyone who isn't a tourneyfag is incapable of noticing anything?
>>
Smash is the worst game to play with friends, I always have to handicap myself severely. They were the kind of player who isn't aware of the existance of tilts, always charge smash attacks fully, believes some moves are "cheap", /v/ seems to be full of these kinds of people.
>>
>>257364409
Wait, do your friends even play videogames? Are you a normalfag, anon?
>>
>>257364458
>The fact that Brawl had a competitive scene at all should convince people that it was a fun game that could still be enjoyed at a high skill level. If the game wasn't fun to play, then I don't think so many tournament players would bother with it for so long.
It actually got a lot of shit in competitive play because people couldn't decide on a ruleset at first(Got it banned from EVO because of drama) and then over time people left it because payouts weren't that good.

Competitive scene in tournaments and all do it for the cash.
Brawl was making less money, less numbers, less entrants than Melee was for it's entire lifespan.

Project M is noteworthy because it actually has a following and money.

People are hopeful for Smash 4.
>>
>>257364458
That's why Brawl was on the main stage at Evo.

Oh wait
>>
>>257364512
The physics are half the controls, and brawl has completely different physics.
>>
>>257364458
if melee had never existed brawl would not have had a tournament scene

For a lot of people brawl was there first smash game, and they saw the melee people doing tourneys so they joined in, then it died
>>
>>257364659

That must be hell. I'm lucky the friends that I have that would want to play smash are alright at worst and can atleast do simple shit like l-cancel.

Except one guy, who wanted to play with us, played once got bodied and decided the game was dumb.
>>
>>257364587
Yeah, probably true. However, you have made a comment, and I remain open to it.
>>
>>257364458
Brawl's comp scene is basically dead at this point, barring PM, if you count it.
>>
>>257364691
Brawl was bigger than Melee for most of its lifespan. It wasn't until Melee got Evo and the documentary and Brawl got old, got competition from Project M and from Smash 4 that Melee got bigger.
>>
The best thing about smash is the duality of playing it casually or seriously if you choose. It catered to everyone but the two demographics don't mix.

You get the kind of person who can't accept failure/losing playing with someone who gives everything his all in the name of fun and the result is just a huge flame war.
>>
>>257364514

The 'point' they're trying to make is that there's a winner to the game and the point is to be the winner. You don't need me to acknowledge that because it's fucking obvious. I'm trying to explain how most people's enjoyment of the games goes beyond the struggle for top spot, how it's fun for most just to compete with our favorite Nintendo characters in creative settings with wacky conditions.

How hard is this for you to grasp?
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>>257364637
Why do you think there are so many casual players who prefer Brawl and so few who prefer Melee? They don't notice or don't mind the speed difference.
>>
>>257365082
>Brawl was bigger than Melee for most of its lifespan.
Doho prove it.
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>>257365082

Dude, brawl died like 2 years into its lifespan. And it took melee with it.

Melee ended up coming back and is now stronger than it ever was before.
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>>257365107
>compete
Smash isn't competitive you fucking tryhard.
>>
>All this smash fanboy autism

And you wonder why you're the joke fanbase of video games
>>
>>257365107
You're not worth it.
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This is all your fault, OP.
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Thank you, competitive cultists with overbearing sense of authority and entitlement over both the creators and the rest of the playerbase,

for reminding me that no matter how shitty law is, chaos will always be shittier.
>>
>>257365116
>so many casual players who prefer Brawl and so few who prefer Melee?
Those people only exist on /v/
95% of people who bought brawl either never played melee or are indifferent as to which gameplay is better or dont notice that the gameplay is different at all
>>
>>257365107
You sound like the kind of person who can't accept a loss and has a fragile ego.

anyone who is better than you at something has to have some kind of problem like they're a tryhard or tournyfag.
>>
>>257365107
The thing that you're not grasping is that you can have victory conditions that aren't limited to "be more skilled than your opponent". Roulette has winners, right? The people who bet on the right numbers and colours?
>>
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>>257365442

I bet he can't even name a single video game he is good at!
>>
>>257365313
>>257365442

And this is why no likes competitive smash players. Biggest victim complex I've ever seen in a fanbase.
>>
>>257358754
>some guy makes a video game the way he wants it

>some fatass cries about it not being what HE wants it to be and that the guy is WRONG WRONG WRONG for not doing what HE wants on the internet

I'm sorry, what?
>>
>>257365414
Man, I sure do wish Windows 8 wasn't worse than Windows 7.
Oh well, nothing I can do but let M$ penetrate my asshole.
>>
>>257365289
If 2 people can play against each other and theres a winner and a loser than the game is competitive.
>>
>>257365660
Smash is a casual party game. Go home, Meleefag.
>>
Brawl is shit compared to Melee because Mario doesn't yell "Ye-Ha" when doing his tornado. True facts.
>>
>>257365554
If you want to play luck based games that make you feel good there are plenty like Peggle.
>>
>>257365660

Then why is it at EVO? It doesn't even have it's devs buying their way in like Killer Instinct.
>>
>>257365414
>entitlement
Go to bed, Moriarty.
>>
>>257365436
>95% of people who bought brawl either never played melee or are indifferent as to which gameplay is better or dont notice that the gameplay is different at all
>indifferent as to which gameplay is better or dont notice that the gameplay is different at all
>indifferent as to which gameplay is better
>dont notice that the gameplay is different at all

Hold on now, that's the point I'M making. So I guess we're on the same page.
>>
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>>257365107
>I'm trying to explain how most people's enjoyment of the games goes beyond the struggle for top spot, how it's fun for most just to compete with our favorite Nintendo characters in creative settings with wacky conditions.
>Goes beyond the struggle for top spot-
>it's fun for most just to compete with-

Anon, you are contradicting yourself.
>>
>>257365627
>victim complex
In what way? are you saying all the people that hate them for liking melee more dont exist?
>>
>>257365654
Cool story brother
>>
I don't get it. Why is /v/ proud of being casuals at Smash?

Brawl isn't bad because it's not Melee. Brawl is bad because it's a shitty game with an over-emphasis on defensive play that results in players not trying to attack ever, because most of the time hitstun is so low that you can be punished just for hitting your opponent.

I'd be more than happy if Brawl was the SF4 to Melee's SF3, but it's not. It's just shit all around.
>>
>>257365627
I'm enjoying smash while you're complaining about how people are better than you at a thing. If you can't accept that you can lose in life then you need some growing up to do.
>>
>>257366021

But I'm actually playing smash right now.
>>
>>257365930
Holy shit, Doc, we traveled back in time to 2010!
>>
Brawl had no improvements other than roster and superficial shit.
>>
>>257365731
>Smash is a casual party game
Really?
Because it involves people competing to win, there's a winner and a loser,there are options to play however you want.
It has all the makings of a competitive game aside from you arguing semantics.
>>
>>257364691
>>257364785
>>257365015

I tried to make my point clear. Brawl's competitive scene didn't last and it was shit compared to Melee, yeah. But it still actually had one. And people enjoyed it at tournaments. Did that enjoyment not exist?

>>257364903
>if melee had never existed brawl would not have had a tournament scene

That's a good theory. I believe it too. But that doesn't make Brawl any less competitive if two skilled players are playing to win.
>>
>>257358729
>Japanese Brawl doubles matches

you think you can give us some links?
>>
>>257366240
I'm fucking with you, I just latched ont othe guy saying "compete" because he contradicted himself perfectly. Sorry man.
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>>257365980

because
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>>257366021
Nowhere did I say my way of playing is the only valid one. You and the rest of the butthurt competitive immediately went on the offensive when I dared suggest that there's enjoyment to be had outside of that.

But go ahead, paint yourself as a victim again.
>>
>>257366280
Brawl is designed not to be competitive.
>>
>>257366280
I agree brawl is competitive
its not fun or interesting though
>>
>>257366414

Point out the posts that said you were playing the game wrong.

Should be easy right?
>>
>>257366297
It's ok anon
>>
>>257366280
>But it still actually had one. And people enjoyed it at tournaments. Did that enjoyment not exist?

If you read the Smashboards everyone there was complaining about many of it's flaws and people were at each other's necks constantly

There wasn't very much enjoyment and nobody was happy. Also everyone lashed out at winners because items were allowed
>>
>>257366416
>>257366490
its not as competitive. you cant be punished as hard and there is random tripping
but still competetive
>>
>>257366280

>Did that enjoyment not exist

It existed for a while, but the more people played the more they realized that not much was there. Brawl was basically solved in about a year. The game is really boring to a lot of people at a high level. it's why there was such a mass exodus
>>
>>257366591
>its not as competitive. you cant be punished as hard and there is random tripping

Player 1 has priority over all other player slots.
There is 10-12 frames of input lag on everything you do.
Offensive play is completely punished.
Defensive play is dominant.
There are glitches that give you basically permanent invincibility.
Runaway is too strong and you get infinite air dodges.
Metaknight has many 8-2s and 9-1s in the matchup lists and he shits on everyone but Diddy, who is 6-4 in MK's favor.

It's competitive but none of it was handled well.
This is why it died.
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>>257366875
>Player 1 has priority over all other player slots
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>>257366569
I went to a couple Brawl tournaments in Florida and got my ass handed to me, but I had a lot of fun and so did a lot of people there too.

>Tfw I almost made it out of pools with C.Falcon and people were actually impressed by me when I was just fucking around
>Tfw the first time playing a high level Snake player and getting destroyed because I didn't know what the fuck to do against that shit

So why are you saying nobody was happy? Should I exclusively use internet forums as reference instead of real life experience?
>>
>>257366875
Er... Port priority is pretty much negligible and it exists in all Smash games.

>There is 10-12 frames of input lag on everything you do.

Also, this is not at all true. At all. Like, at all at all. I don't know where this came from even. Like, what?

>There are glitches that give you basically permanent invincibility.

Well, there's Meta Knight's one. And it's extremely difficult to pull off for any extended amount of time.

I don't even like Brawl, I'm just pointing out these extreme inaccuracies.
>>
>>257367216
>Er... Port priority is pretty much negligible and it exists in all Smash games.
It exists much higher in Brawl.
There was a lot of testing done on it and player 1 gets a very large amount of priority. Even moves that would normally clank between P2-P4 would win cleanly beat the opponent as P1

>Also, this is not at all true. At all. Like, at all at all. I don't know where this came from even. Like, what?
Videos showing it.
Constantly brought up.

>Well, there's Meta Knight's one. And it's extremely difficult to pull off for any extended amount of time.
Well to be fair there's also Planking.
>>
>>257367216
>Also, this is not at all true. At all. Like, at all at all. I don't know where this came from even. Like, what?
Before you say that I want you to spend ten minutes researching it before you say things that aren't true, like "Brawl has no input lag"
>>
>>257367216

There are 4 frames of input lag from the game itself. And 6 from wiimotes wireless shit, and if one person uses a wiimote it gives +6 frames of lag t everyone regardless of their controller to even tings up.

Tons of people could abuse planking for near constant invincibility, it got so bad that it's banned from tournaments.

And as far as glitches alone go, Brawl has atleast twice as many as melee.
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The irony is that the only mistake Sakurai made was making Melee, if he had never made Melee you fucks would not be complaining. He gave you a taste of the good shit even though he never wants to make the same shit twice. All you can do now is moan and cry and mod his new games so it plays like one of his old games.
>>
>>257367204
>So why are you saying nobody was happy?
It's not nobody.
It was just a much smaller number than what should have been.

> Should I exclusively use internet forums as reference instead of real life experience?
Personal anecdotes doesn't paint a whole picture as a large group of players can provide with their experiences.

Also you have to remember Smash was banned from EVO because of the drama and backlash.
>>
>>257367850
>he never wants to make the same shit twice
Which is funny, because Smash 4 is very similar to Brawl and is the least unique of all the Smash games.
>>
>>257367850
if he had never made melee i wouldn't be playing smash anymore
>>
>>257367943
It's funny that you think the January build of the game will be the release build, it's also funny that you don't think customizable movesets, making air dodges more punishable, and the removal of edgehogging doesn't differentiate Smash 4 from other Smash games.
>>
>>257368474
It's funny that you think that the build of a game will change that drastically.
>>
>>257368505
It's almost like you weren't here for Brawl's changes before release.
>>
>>257368474

Anon, it's time to just accept it. The final build won't be much different at all.

They aren't going to add in grounded momentum transferring from jumps.

They aren't going to add in less landing lag from aerials.

They aren't going to add in followups form throws.
>>
>>257368474
>making air dodges more punishable
It's only more punishable than Brawl. Melee's air dodging put you in freefall state.

Smash 4 only punishes you if you do it near the ground. Outside of that it is able to be used multiple times in the air.

Just correcting you a bit.
>>
>>257368619
Not him, but I know I wasn't. What happened?
>>
>>257368661
L canceling was in, tripping was added in right before release.
>>
>>257368474
>i-ites like brawl now, b-but i sure it wont be shit later
>>
>>257368879
>if it's not like Melee it's clearly like Brawl, even there are mechanics and meta game changes unique to the game
>>
>>257352516
I know I'm late, but what kind of bubble do you live in?

This thread is pretty much the first time since Brawl's release that I have seen anybody bring up Melee in any (non Melee exclusive) topic for reason other than to complain about the newer games.
The Melee fanbase is by far the most spiteful bunch there is. I have never seen a worse one in gaming, and the closest other ones are way more justified too.
>>
>>257368996
>Mechanics unique to the game
Literally only the edge grab change and the pivot attacks right now.

>Metagame changes
You can not know this because a metagame has not been established yet. This is something players form.
>>
>>257368996
>>if it's not like Melee it's clearly like Brawl,
nope
its very clearly like brawl, all of brawls degin choices and problems are here

>Design choices from brawl still here:
Floatiness (yes slightly less floaty than brawl)
Momentum doesnt carry into the air when you jump
Lack of hitstun
You go into your grounded mode before you actually touch the ground
Input lag
Crouch canceling gone
You go to far at low percents and not far enough at high percents
Sheilds to good an option
Crazy good recoveries
Can move to far in the air from no momentum
>>
>>257368996

The physics feel like a speed up brawl with lag thrown on everything, the only thing that's really different so far is the ledge mechanic
>>
>>257369210

What's different from pivots in smash 4?
>>
>>257369265
Why have people like D1 been saying it's in between then?
>>
>>257358486

>Iori

You mean...da man?
>>
>>257369471

Because 99 is between 0 and 100.
>>
>>257348164
There were tons you fuck
>Characters can grab the edge facing the other way
>Can no longer cancel a meteor smash immediately
>Footstool jumping gives everyone a spike that takes skill to do
>New air dodge is more beginner friendly
>Crawling
>Wall Cling
>Gliding
>Swimming
>Pivot grabbing
>Pummeling is faster thus more damage for punishing
>>
>>257369210
You don't think customizable movesets is going to change the overall metagame from previous Smash titles if tourneyfags eat it up?
>>
>>257369471

they're trying to be political and not shit on the game until it's out, because nintendo is supporting them now
>>
>>257369471
Im just posting facts

but oh if D1 says so it must be true
D1 was being nice on camera, nintendo have hired him for 2 events now i think
Lots of smash players (melee and brawl) have said its very much brawl on camera
>>
>>257369627
In the same video he says the aerial landing lag is too high and Nintendo needs to fix it.
>>
>>257369593

Really dude?

Listing, swimming and gliding?

Swimming doesn't affect anything at all. And gliding in brawl is broken on an inherit level that allows you infinite recovery, vertical and horizontal.
>>
>>257369471
If he just came out and said
>what do you think of the game
>the gameplay is brawl

you know how much hate he would get from retards? "oh you're just saying its like brawl because you hate it and you hate brawl, tourney fag!!!!!!!!!"
>>
>>257369614
They probably will not eat it up because there is most likely going to be a much better skill than the others available and possible crazy imbalances depending on the skill.

However if it does get accepted I think it would be a potentially neat addition provided there is some sort of balance to it.

Sakurai has said that balance is not a focus in Smash 4 because it's a party game.

>>257369431
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTHyYHin2lg
>>
>>257367643
>There was a lot of testing done on it
What testing? I'd be fascinated to know about this.

>Videos showing it.
>Constantly brought up.
What videos? Brought up where?

>Well to be fair there's also Planking.
Yeah you've got me there. Although that's not so much a glitch as it is a broken technique.

>>257367807
There's the universal one-frame input lag glitch/obscurity, and then the physics one if that's not the same thing. So that's one frame, then a possible one more for physics-related inputs.

>>257367838
>4 frames of input lag from the game itself
[citation needed]

>6 from wiimotes wireless shit
[citation needed]
Wiimotes have a few MILLISECONDS of input lag, could that be what you're thinking of? It's not six frames

>if one person uses a wiimote it gives +6 frames of lag t everyone regardless of their controller to even tings up.
[citation needed]

Planking was a problem, that's true. Fixed with a ledge grab limit, like 50 regrabs or something. Again, I don't follow Brawl, I'm not 100% sure. Not important, though, that's not what we're discussing.

>And as far as glitches alone go, Brawl has atleast twice as many as melee.
Also not what we were discussing.

I've spent this time researching and found absolutely nothing to support your claims.
>>
>>257351585
they tried, it failed to Kickstart

look up 'air dash online'
>>
>>257370007

Watching that video, that doesn't seem very new.

Pivots were all over the place in 64 and very easy to do.

I know they are fairly easy to do in PM as well, pivot grabs are easy mode, and pivot smashes are also easy, tilts are kinda hard though. Don't remember if they took the mechanics form Brawl or Melee though.
>>
>>257370241
I cant believe how bad the gameplay looked considering they made pm
>>
>>257369637
>>257369817
Sorry, but I tend to believe D1 over you guys, no offense. He's actually spent a good amount of time with the game. He actually DID say it was like Brawl when he first played it but that some character felt like playing Brawl and some characters felt like playing Melee.
>>