>>257103459 Like 6 the individual stats made a huge different though, and unlike 6 you couldn't alter stats permanently with Materia/Espers. Cloud and Red XIII were your well-rounded characters, Aries was your mage, Cait Sith was her replacement mage, Tifa was physical, Barrett was tanky.
You were supposed to take their strengths and build their set-ups around them.
>>257103790 Please. 7 has the best customization by far, unless you dip into gaidens like Final Fantasy Tactics, which blows 7 out of the water. There aren't any other JRPGs or WRPGs in existence that hold a candle to the Materia system, though many have tried and failed. But, as I mentioned, SRPGs and TRPGs are always more customization-rich. Vagrant Story, for example, is a TRPG with really deep customization. It's just a shame about its fucking retarded combat system. As a game, and as far as fiddly side-content and crafting goes, Star Ocean 2 could be a contender - but there's no actual customization there beyond picking your arts and equipping your gear.
FF12 probably comes closest to 7, but even with IZJS you're picking from a board you have to commit to - that's anti-customization because you can't totally change characters into whatever you need them to be at a moment's notice.
I think what you're looking for is something like The Last Remnant, which might just edge out the Materia system, but it's debatable because TLR's system is so opaque to the point of being obtuse. Without a wiki, you can't really customize so much as you can just see what happens sims-style as you play.
>>257102748 SPECIAL system is pretty good, but I've only played Lionheart and not any of the Fallout games.
FF5 has a pretty fun system, but tbf you don't have a lot of variables to work with. You pick a class, and add an ability to it from another class. In theory FF2 has a good system, but it's just a grind. I agree that FF7s materia system is a good one.
>>257105578 The customization level in TLR is completely off the rails, but it's almost impossible to manipulate unless you're beyond autistic so I think it cancels itself out.
Imagine if you had countless status and experience bars for every weapon type, every stance, every spell, every combination of party member, every battle aggressing level, every playstyle. Now make them all completely invisible to the player.
Don't want to make a whole new thread for this, so I'll post it here. I want to go back and play the greatest games that I never got a chance to try. I recently got done with some point and click games like Sam and Max and Monkey Island, and now I want to try some JRPGs. I've already played FF7, but beyond that, my experience with JRPGs is pretty limited.
What would you guys say is the greatest JRPG in existence, and one that I really need to play? I'll probably only play one or two before moving on to another genre.
>>257105803 I see you didn't ctrl-f. It's my favorite JRPG of all time (SO2), but it's not really customization in the strictest sense. It's a ton of out-of-combat skills and little effects, but you can't do much to customize your party for battle.
But all of that crafting and side-stuff like cooking, etc? Fucking brilliant. If that stuff is included, then SO2 wins massively for sure.
>>257105858 No I know about all of that but in terms of customization all that just determines the stats that go up and what skills you get, It's an obtuse way of going about it and challenging to manipulate but what you're manipulating isn't a massive amount. Still enjoy the fuck out of TLR Just seems odd to compare it to the materia system
>>257102748 Xenoblade. >dozens of sets of armor and weapons >dozens of gem types that have different effects that can be placed in armor and weapons >different skills for each character which can all be upgraded >FIVE different skill trees per character, two of which are unlockable
>>257105904 I really dislike the TES system. I haven't dipped too deep into it but just by looking like it it seems to encourage backwards thinking if you want to minmax stuff. That is, not actually using your major skills in order to guarantee maximum stat boosts at level up.
Also, since a single level up is pretty much completely pointless, it really sucked in Oblivion when the world would just outpace you if you happen to level up during a quest or anytime you can't go shopping immediately afterwards.
>>257103459 Support magic is always helpful. In every game. Ever. Offensive magic tends to fall off, but that always happens, too. FFIX kind of changed that, since Vivi is a beast, and there aren't multi-hit moves.
>>257106234 >SO2 Oh fucking god, I love SO2. It's my game I play like once every two years. I love it.
I'm surpised no one has said anything about Tales of Symphonia. It had that crazy SP/TP system that was partially hidden depending on what skills you use. Plus the best use of titles in a Tales game that affect all stats.
>Lazy as fuck devs can't even create a game with a massive amount of customization available. >You will never see warriors, rogues and mages have 20ish different subclasses each (such as paladin, knight, templar, warlord, barbarian etc for warrior), each with their own massive skill trees (not just 10 nodes of passive shit either).
Please listen. Itemization isn't customization. End-game content min/maxing isnt customization. Any game that gives you named characters with prebuilt stats with no form of transmrigation system IS NOT customization.
DO NOT compare a decent mechanics and gameplay with customization they are not the same time.
In none of those game you can turn a rouge into a priest then into a warlock because why the fuck not.
>titles finally worth a damn >5 different levels for each title >constantly getting new ones for every little thing (using a move a certain number of times, amount of steps taken or money spent, attacking certain weaknesses, viewing skits, etc.) >constantly switching titles to get the best stats/moves as quickly and efficiently as possible It's not the best but I really like it. I only wish there were a way to better customize title switching, like being able to set a list of which ones to move onto after which level. It'd save a lot of annoyance at going into the titles screen so frequently and forgetting what I wanted next, especially later in the game when you have a million of them.
>>257106118 SG is crap. It only really opens up later and there's not much of a point in branching out since you eventually have to retrace your steps to continue building a certain character's portion of the grid, and since characters can be swapped in combat, there's not much point in overlapping unless you want to cast more than one firaga or something
>>257107945 >Taking primary skills and passives from previous classes where never a thing. Requires ungodly amounts of grinding and is not even needed because the game is easy as shit, progressing just with the basic classes. Take your shit game somewhere else.
Breath of Fire III and IV had pre-determined stats path for all characters (except Peco) and you could customize by putting them under masters to permanantly boost their stats on level up as well as learn some unique abilities.
You could also swap monster/master made abilities between characters for a price. IV's combat system alone opened it up to a variety of attack patterns with being able to switch in characters at anytime as well as combo between attacks.
>>257108685 >the customization resets your level to 1, you don't get any boosted experience at low levels, and it's just for MUH POSTGAME CONTENT, while the entirety of the game is just tank-mage-archer fodder shit. Yep, shit game.
>>257109075 >catching up with levels after resetting your class >simply grinding the same shit over and over again >"bad at RPGs" No, it's a case of you being a drooling retard that thinks that spending 20 hours grinding your levels back to what they were for 5% of the content requires any sort of skill.
It's also horrible game design since the game should make you want to change your classes around DURING ALL THE GAME, not just for the optional shit at the end.
Checklist simulators aren't RPGs. Strategy is the important factor, not grinding back and forth to meet a quota.
Not like you'd know about that, seeing as you claimed that TO has the best customization in any game ever. Perhaps you hit your head when you were young.
>>257109810 >20hours Doesn't know tranmrigation retains stats and makes stats grow faster. >Horrible Game Design Doesn't know that devs design levels for powerleveling to avoid a 20hour grind. >Not that i would know about that Seems like you have no idea what your talking about or how to efficiently min/max characters with a game that well design that gives you options that actually change the core of how you use your skills damage output and damage reduction.
>>257110642 Sure is fun making the same 15 viable choices out of 7xx.
Pretty much every match is a 50/50 scenario of "will this overpowered pokemon do earthquake or stone edge?" with the "OU" tier that is filled with pokemon with no counters, and the megaevolutions fucking up the balance further.
Didn't help that smogon went batshine insane with banning everything after megas fucked up the entire game. Seeing their game crumple so bad in favor of casual play must have been suffering.
>>257103095 OP's pick is one of the worst by execution. >having to grind each materia individually to finally split it and max it across all characters. And that doesn't even factor the methods required to get certain materias.
>>257105904 >Any of the Elder Scroll games before Skyrim The only one that is good IS Skyrim. The attribute system of 1234 was garbage, you could game the system in the most abstractly retarded way to make a broken superpowered 100-Attributes character or you had a character with gimped attributes, but still 100 in all skills. Either way all characters are essentially identical to one another.
There was no "customization"; your character had no limitation or choices to make... the only one with a genuine limit was Skyrim, since you could only fill out 1/3 of the Skill Tree. The Perks do everything that Attributes did and more, they actually gave your character some unique traits and some new techniques, especially compared to TES 1-3 where skills just increased success chance, and Oblivion where you got all Perks at each 25 point interval.
Not only that, but Skyrim's skill balance is far better than the Skills of previous TES games. Many things in 1-4 were redundant and obsoleted by other skills ( >B-but muh speers ). The common complaint is that Skyrim took out things, but besides a scant few things that break an already broken-ass game series like levitation, that's simply not true; there are way more unique things and less redundancy (namely instead of magic/enchanting/alchemy all able to apply every modifying effect, each had specific effects limited to their skill).
Skyrim's character building is a massive step up from the earlier TES games.
>>257102748 not the best but still deserves a mention. 3rd Age had some pretty fun builds. this guy seems like an obvious fighter when you get him, but you can turn him into the best caster on your team.
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