Which was the best RPG system to customize character skills/stats?

Transistor

>>257102748
You just posted it.

>>257102748
>>257103095
/thread

Materia was okay, but 7 continued the trend from 6 of more or less everyone being the same blank slate.

Magic was also pretty pointless once you hit a certain point. Regular attacks did way more damage.

Job system.

>>257103459
But it was fun as fuck to kit Cloud out with Allslash + 4x Attack + Kujata (or whatever the crazy status effect summon was)

Bahamut Lagoon

>>257103095
>>257103324
>i've only played final fantasy vii

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>>257103095
>>257103324
>Master Summon
>Master Magic
>Master Command
>Endgame Customization

>>257103627
Hades was the status effects summon.

>>257103459
Like 6 the individual stats made a huge different though, and unlike 6 you couldn't alter stats permanently with Materia/Espers. Cloud and Red XIII were your well-rounded characters, Aries was your mage, Cait Sith was her replacement mage, Tifa was physical, Barrett was tanky.

You were supposed to take their strengths and build their set-ups around them.

Definitely not weebshit

>>257102748
Final Fantasy V.

>>257103928
>unlike 6 you couldn't alter stats permanently with Materia/Espers

You didn't need to rely on either of those. You used Morph against the enemies in the sunken plane and picked up an unlimited supply of stat-boosting items.

>>257104221
That's why I specified Materia since the only other way to alter stats is a very tedious endgame method.

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>>257103909
>being all powerful at the endgame after a huge amount of effort if you know the secrets of the game

sounds good to me

>>257102748
I should replay FFVII
I used a walkthrough guide my first time years ago

final fantasy V used to be the best, but now it's bravely default.

EOIII and IV are good too.

Job system best system

>>257103790
Please.
7 has the best customization by far, unless you dip into gaidens like Final Fantasy Tactics, which blows 7 out of the water.
There aren't any other JRPGs or WRPGs in existence that hold a candle to the Materia system, though many have tried and failed.
But, as I mentioned, SRPGs and TRPGs are always more customization-rich. Vagrant Story, for example, is a TRPG with really deep customization. It's just a shame about its fucking retarded combat system.
As a game, and as far as fiddly side-content and crafting goes, Star Ocean 2 could be a contender - but there's no actual customization there beyond picking your arts and equipping your gear.

FF12 probably comes closest to 7, but even with IZJS you're picking from a board you have to commit to - that's anti-customization because you can't totally change characters into whatever you need them to be at a moment's notice.

I think what you're looking for is something like The Last Remnant, which might just edge out the Materia system, but it's debatable because TLR's system is so opaque to the point of being obtuse. Without a wiki, you can't really customize so much as you can just see what happens sims-style as you play.

>>257104753
>There aren't any other JRPGs or WRPGs in existence that hold a candle to the Materia system, though many have tried and failed.
This delusion.

>>257102748
Daggerfall

Final Fantasy Tactics hands down

It's a shame the difficulty took a dive into the shitter pretty early, wish the game was playtested and then it would have been perfect

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FFT's job system is pretty fun. Lots of possible combinations.

>>257104897
You've yet to name a single one. If you have something to add, please do so. If not, then you're wrong by default.

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Don't know about the best, but Golden Sun was pretty great in that regard.

>>257103459
>Magic was also pretty pointless once you hit a certain point.
You though Magic was useless in VII? Try VIII. The only reason to use magic is for junctioning and maybe using Aura.

>>257105056
Guild Wars blows everything FF out of the water so hard it does a 20s flying into orbit and back JRPG cutscene.

>>257105097
That would be true if not for the existence of the Double and Triple spells.

>>257105097
You though magic was useless in VIII? Try IX. The only reason to use magic is for dragging battles out beyond their already glacial pace.

>>257102748
Path of Exile.

>>257102748
Wizardry 8

>>257105056

Trails in the sky. Easy peasy, casual.

>>257105181
>MMO
If you want to go there, then Star Wars Galaxies makes Guild Wars look like tinker toys. Get the fuck out of my sandbox, little nigger.

>>257104654

Agreed. Party roles are pretty vital to combat and character growth/customization in RPGs. The whole "everyone can do everything" gimmick is incredibly boring and strangely shallow in comparison.

Bonus points for any subjob system, which adds a whole 'nother level to customization and mix/matching.

>>257105213
>Double and Triple
You know, I never really used those. I just juctioned them to Agility and enjoyed what was pretty much auto-haste.

>>257105323
>Guild Wars
>MMO

No MMOs are shit by default, faggot.

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>>257105097
Meltdown too, if for some reason you're not sporting the most useful GF in the game.

>>257105397
Summoning Cerberus casts them on your whole party.

>>257104753
>The Last Remnant, which might just edge out the Materia system
In what way?
I know you can change classes and certain wield styles but is the customization level really that high?

>>257102748
SPECIAL system is pretty good, but I've only played Lionheart and not any of the Fallout games.

FF5 has a pretty fun system, but tbf you don't have a lot of variables to work with.
You pick a class, and add an ability to it from another class.
In theory FF2 has a good system, but it's just a grind.
I agree that FF7s materia system is a good one.

Morrowind.

PoE.

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>>257105571
I never used Cerberus.

>>257105578
Not really, it just has a really obtuse and unexplained learn-by-doing system. The actual customization is small, the abilities themselves are standard JRPG fare.

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>>257105674
I bet you never even summoned Cactuar.

>>257105432
Mantra grid was bretty good.
I liked how they tried to mix things up in 2 but overall I preferred 1

nobody has said Star Ocean? wtf

>>257105578
The customization level in TLR is completely off the rails, but it's almost impossible to manipulate unless you're beyond autistic so I think it cancels itself out.

Imagine if you had countless status and experience bars for every weapon type, every stance, every spell, every combination of party member, every battle aggressing level, every playstyle.
Now make them all completely invisible to the player.

There you go, welcome to TLR.

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Don't want to make a whole new thread for this, so I'll post it here. I want to go back and play the greatest games that I never got a chance to try. I recently got done with some point and click games like Sam and Max and Monkey Island, and now I want to try some JRPGs. I've already played FF7, but beyond that, my experience with JRPGs is pretty limited.

What would you guys say is the greatest JRPG in existence, and one that I really need to play? I'll probably only play one or two before moving on to another genre.

>>257105432
DDS was a horrible game.

>>257105741
In my defense, I've only played through FFVIII 3 or so times. I tended to focus more on certain refine abilities.

>>257103909
>being autistic enough to get master materia

If you've done enough grinding to get even one of them I'm pretty sure you'd be strong enough to kill the WEAPONs already anyway

>>257102748
>Any of the old Das Schwarze Auge games
>Any of the Elder Scroll games before Skyrim, the further back the more customisation
>Nearly every actual Roguelike ever made

wizardry 8/ ultima online

>>257105803

Most people in this thread are Final Fantasy Fags

>>257103928
Cloud was a bit beyond well rounded. He had above average stats compared to everyone else.

>>257105858
None of that means it has lots of customization. It has lots of stupid things that determine what customization you get, but the actual range of outcome is small.

Oblivion with mods...
Or gothic...
Or even Skyrim with mods...

Jrpgs give shit for customization shitty prebuilt characters.

Except Disgaea or anything by NISE

>>257105803
Less popular RPG. Can't expect that many people to have played it.

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>Character can learn anything as long as you equip the appropriate skill item
>Individual characters don't have any innate affinities or weaknesses, each one is a blank slate with no personality

This is why rpg customization sucks. There's always a few combos that are ridiculous and the only reason to make characters use anything else is for the novelty.

>>257105974
Which was nice considering you never had a choice about whether or not he was in your party

>>257105859
Dragon Quest 5

>>257105923
And ignoring everyone except that one guy who said Guild Wars

>No single player game will give you a skill tree as massive as Path of Exile.
Shame. I want one, but PoE is awful.

>>257105859
There is no "greatest", there are "great" ones that vary and you will have a preference for one depending on your taste.

Try:
Dragon Quest 8
Mana Khemia
Grandia 2
Final Fantasy 6

>>257105071

Fuck man, switching classes on the fly, deciding whether to re-set Djinn to get the most out of their effects, or whether to summon for boosted damage.

Golden sun wasn't the most complex customization system, but it was usable mid-fight and was fun as fuck. I'm sad that we'll never get a proper sequal using that system.

>>257105803
star ocean 2 superior to all other star oceans

>>257105803
I see you didn't ctrl-f.
It's my favorite JRPG of all time (SO2), but it's not really customization in the strictest sense. It's a ton of out-of-combat skills and little effects, but you can't do much to customize your party for battle.

But all of that crafting and side-stuff like cooking, etc? Fucking brilliant. If that stuff is included, then SO2 wins massively for sure.

>>257105858
No I know about all of that but in terms of customization all that just determines the stats that go up and what skills you get,
It's an obtuse way of going about it and challenging to manipulate but what you're manipulating isn't a massive amount.
Still enjoy the fuck out of TLR
Just seems odd to compare it to the materia system

>>257106118
I mean the expert sphere grid. So many options.
Default routes.
Same routes.
Or just don't use it at all.

>>257105071
>Golden Sun was pretty great in that regard
>having to randomly guess what combinations resulted in what class
It was cool to play around with, I guess.

Magic: The Gathering

>all this final fantasy
Transistor

>>257106157

Well, they onlt play Final fantasy games and maybe some Square ones, so of course they have to ignore what they don't know. They don't have counter-arguements.

>>257106118
How long till that shit actually opens up?
I'm replaying it and only vaguely remember my playthrough when it came out.

>>257105859
>What would you guys say is the greatest JRPG in existence
Nigga, do you not realize how many JRPGs are out there? There isn't a greatest. Hell, a top 10 is damn near impossible to make.

>>257103459
In 6 each character had their own special ability. I found that it gave them more personality.

>>257106343
Isn't that the little tech demo with the gun that has MUH REALISM reloading physics and other bullshit like that?

>>257106290
I dislike the sphere grid overall, but at least it somewhat supported character roles in the beginning.

>>257102748
Xenoblade.
>dozens of sets of armor and weapons
>dozens of gem types that have different effects that can be placed in armor and weapons
>different skills for each character which can all be upgraded
>FIVE different skill trees per character, two of which are unlockable

>>257106017
I'm pretty sure the only none troll/fanboy answer is here.

I'd llike to add Dues Ex and Final Fantasy tatics/a2 and advance on that list.

>>257105017
Try Tactics Ogre on PSP

>>257103095
FFX's system was neat.
I also liked FF7's system, enjoyable, but jesus, I like it more classes exist.

>>257103459
Wouldn't say magic was useless. Gravity nigga.

>>257105904
I really dislike the TES system. I haven't dipped too deep into it but just by looking like it it seems to encourage backwards thinking if you want to minmax stuff. That is, not actually using your major skills in order to guarantee maximum stat boosts at level up.

Also, since a single level up is pretty much completely pointless, it really sucked in Oblivion when the world would just outpace you if you happen to level up during a quest or anytime you can't go shopping immediately afterwards.

>>257106395
Well, with the Expert Grid it's open pretty much from the beginning.

with the Standard Grid not until like the very very endgame

unfortunately the original US release only had the standard grid because the Japs thought Americans were too stupid to use the other one

>>257103459
Support magic is always helpful. In every game. Ever. Offensive magic tends to fall off, but that always happens, too. FFIX kind of changed that, since Vivi is a beast, and there aren't multi-hit moves.

>>257106482
you're thinking of reciever.

transistor is bastion 2 with slightly more customization, but barely any.

>>257106562
You forgot the ability to skill link with other characters.

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>>257106234
>SO2
Oh fucking god, I love SO2. It's my game I play like once every two years. I love it.

I'm surpised no one has said anything about Tales of Symphonia. It had that crazy SP/TP system that was partially hidden depending on what skills you use. Plus the best use of titles in a Tales game that affect all stats.

DDS had some good customizin' as well.

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Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen

I can't be the only person who loves this game.

>Lazy as fuck devs can't even create a game with a massive amount of customization available.
>You will never see warriors, rogues and mages have 20ish different subclasses each (such as paladin, knight, templar, warlord, barbarian etc for warrior), each with their own massive skill trees (not just 10 nodes of passive shit either).

>>257106741
I tried to emulate it, and it just didn't work.

>>257106570
>>257106569
>>257106017
>>257105904
>>257105257
>>257105017
>>257104916
>>257104915

Are the only right answers final fantasy game give shit for customization they are prebuilt characters with.

Fuck even dragon age gives more customization then the standard jrpg or final fantasy game excluding tatics.

>>257106625
But the standard is better for min/maxing

>>257106938
same guy here forgot to add anything from NISE like Lapucelle, Phatom Brave, Disgaea, Makai Kingdoms EtC

>>257106820
Play the SNES version, it emulates just fine.
The PSX version is a little prettier, but doesn't bring anything new to the table.

>>257106118
Download and emulate the international version. It has unlocked sphere grids and gets insane right away.

>>257106114
>>257106184
>>257106429
Thanks guys, I'll look further into all the ones suggested.

>anything but Pokemon

Did you faggots stop considering Pokemon an RPG?

Nocturne's nothing special but you can do whatever you want with demi-fiend.
Also fusing can get relatively deep if you're trying to make certain things learn certain skills

>>257106938
>TO
>more customization than FFT
Yeah boy I sure like generic melee, generic caster, generic bowman, generic melee-caster hybrid and nothing else.

Literally blizzard balancing on this serie. Everything does the same damage, everything is the same. You are just grinding for a sprite swap.

>>257107298
>>>/vp/

>>257107270
Dude seriously speak they are all wrong look at >>257106938
>>257107020

Please listen.
Itemization isn't customization.
End-game content min/maxing isnt customization.
Any game that gives you named characters with prebuilt stats with no form of transmrigation system IS NOT customization.

DO NOT compare a decent mechanics and gameplay with customization they are not the same time.

In none of those game you can turn a rouge into a priest then into a warlock because why the fuck not.

God damn plebians all of you.

>>257107298
not vidya

>>257107298
>pokemon
>rpg
You mean spreadsheet simulator?

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>titles finally worth a damn
>5 different levels for each title
>constantly getting new ones for every little thing (using a move a certain number of times, amount of steps taken or money spent, attacking certain weaknesses, viewing skits, etc.)
>constantly switching titles to get the best stats/moves as quickly and efficiently as possible
It's not the best but I really like it. I only wish there were a way to better customize title switching, like being able to set a list of which ones to move onto after which level. It'd save a lot of annoyance at going into the titles screen so frequently and forgetting what I wanted next, especially later in the game when you have a million of them.

Should I buy FFVIII on sale today?

>>257107559
WRONG

It's called the job system for a reason you unbelievable retard.

Also, Fire Emblem awakening

>>257106118
SG is crap. It only really opens up later and there's not much of a point in branching out since you eventually have to retrace your steps to continue building a certain character's portion of the grid, and since characters can be swapped in combat, there's not much point in overlapping unless you want to cast more than one firaga or something

>>257107383
Transmigration was never a thing.
Gonna ignore you now you have never played the game.

Taking primary skills and passives from previous classes where never a thing.

Making a ninja and transmigrating it to a knight to dual wield Excalibur where never a thing. Going assassin to a redmage for extra move and adding black mage skills for double cast was never a thing.

And for tes your a god damn moron who has never played the game no explainations need to be given.

>>257107559
Well that guy was looking for good jrpgs to play and not indepth customization, please read more carefully.

>>257107923
read
>>257107945

Now continue to be a moron.

>>257107123
Wait, there was a difference? Really? I didn't know that. I played the international version though, the one where shit was japanese, and have never noticed this.

>>257108134
>Which was the best RPG system to customize character skills/stats?

Where in the OP did he say Jrpgs?
Cause I dont not see it either i've gone blind or some shit bro.

>>257107945
Literally everything you said can be done on FFT plus it has a shitload more customization options like passive slot, trigger slot, and overall more inventive classes (orator, calculator).

TO drones are the worst.

>>257108271
You responded to
>>257107270

>>257108302
Wait. Was >>257107945 claiming that none of that was in FFT or TO? If the former, I don't think he's actually played the game before.

>>257107945
>Taking primary skills and passives from previous classes where never a thing.
Requires ungodly amounts of grinding and is not even needed because the game is easy as shit, progressing just with the basic classes. Take your shit game somewhere else.

>>257108338
Misclicks to strong.

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Breath of Fire III and IV had pre-determined stats path for all characters (except Peco) and you could customize by putting them under masters to permanantly boost their stats on level up as well as learn some unique abilities.

You could also swap monster/master made abilities between characters for a price. IV's combat system alone opened it up to a variety of attack patterns with being able to switch in characters at anytime as well as combo between attacks.

Also one of the best JRPG's ever imo.

>>257108413
I was saying that alll of that is in Tatics and TES has more vamprisim Becoming a lycan multiple playstyle albiet you need mods to make them feel more different.

Getting stealth range multiple versions of doing the same thing is customization.

>>257108428
>The customization is worthless because it too hard to get there and i don't do post game content because its too hard.

>>257108413
He somehow claimed that changing class, and carrying skills/passives over to a new class is exclusive to TO and FFT doesn't have that. I think it's just a shitposter.

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Probably not the best, but Valkyrie Profile's skill and battle system are pretty great. Oh, and does Dragon's Dogma count? Video somewhat related.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RCizK5Btsc

>>257108710
I didnt fucking say that ninjas aren't in TES wtf your all morons.

>>257108685
>the customization resets your level to 1, you don't get any boosted experience at low levels, and it's just for MUH POSTGAME CONTENT, while the entirety of the game is just tank-mage-archer fodder shit.
Yep, shit game.

>>257108907
>It takes to much time i can't grind fast enough, post game content is too hard so its bad.

>Entire game tank mage arch fodder shit.

Implying that isnt more customization then 90% of jrpgs.

Son i think your just really bad at rpgs at this point/

>>257109075
>catching up with levels after resetting your class
>simply grinding the same shit over and over again
>"bad at RPGs"
No, it's a case of you being a drooling retard that thinks that spending 20 hours grinding your levels back to what they were for 5% of the content requires any sort of skill.

It's also horrible game design since the game should make you want to change your classes around DURING ALL THE GAME, not just for the optional shit at the end.

Checklist simulators aren't RPGs. Strategy is the important factor, not grinding back and forth to meet a quota.

Not like you'd know about that, seeing as you claimed that TO has the best customization in any game ever. Perhaps you hit your head when you were young.

Get told, piece of shit.

>>257106603
The point was customisation of stats and skills, not good or otherwise there could be no FF replies after the first one with jobs (3 or 4 or something like that) either.

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>>257109810
>20hours
Doesn't know tranmrigation retains stats and makes stats grow faster.
>Horrible Game Design
Doesn't know that devs design levels for powerleveling to avoid a 20hour grind.
>Not that i would know about that
Seems like you have no idea what your talking about or how to efficiently min/max characters with a game that well design that gives you options that actually change the core of how you use your skills damage output and damage reduction.

Son its time to stop typing.

>>257107298

You don't need to customize shit to win at the RPG elements of Pokemon, but if you're building a Smogon or VGC team it is pretty damn fun.

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>>257110276
Should have worked on your english instead of spending 500 hours min/maxing 3 passive attributes in your shitty game.

>>257107939

Have you not unlocked everything in the monster arena? Barring a very narrow range of strategies you pretty much need your characters to have completed multiple paths on the grid.

>>257110642
Sure is fun making the same 15 viable choices out of 7xx.

Pretty much every match is a 50/50 scenario of "will this overpowered pokemon do earthquake or stone edge?" with the "OU" tier that is filled with pokemon with no counters, and the megaevolutions fucking up the balance further.

Didn't help that smogon went batshine insane with banning everything after megas fucked up the entire game. Seeing their game crumple so bad in favor of casual play must have been suffering.

>>257110820
Do people still use that image seriously? Considering those are European outlets? Using it ironically doesn't really work.

>>257111246
another proof that the standard american cant into reading,
it clearly says on vacation you claplard

>>257110820
>Insult slinging because im not good enough for rpgs

Its k no hard feelings we all can't be good vidya game players.

Diablo 2, Diablo 3, Titan quest IT.

>>257111246
>Using it ironically doesn't really work.
Looks like it just did.

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>>257111245

Well, I think you're oversimplifying things a bit. The current meta is heavily centralized around bulky tanks, but setting up hazards, sweepers, and weather is still a huge part of play.

>>257102748
PERSONA

>>257103095
OP's pick is one of the worst by execution.
>having to grind each materia individually to finally split it and max it across all characters.
And that doesn't even factor the methods required to get certain materias.

>>257113574
Except you dont have to grind materia to everyone unless you have autism.

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Arcanum gets my vote.

>>257103459
Like with FF6, FF7 suffered from a pet peeve of mine. Which is that casting animations for magic were TOO FUCKING LONG.

Why even bother when each spell is going to take 5-7 seconds to cast when I can just mash Fight?

>>257105904
>Any of the Elder Scroll games before Skyrim
The only one that is good IS Skyrim.
The attribute system of 1234 was garbage, you could game the system in the most abstractly retarded way to make a broken superpowered 100-Attributes character or you had a character with gimped attributes, but still 100 in all skills. Either way all characters are essentially identical to one another.

There was no "customization"; your character had no limitation or choices to make... the only one with a genuine limit was Skyrim, since you could only fill out 1/3 of the Skill Tree. The Perks do everything that Attributes did and more, they actually gave your character some unique traits and some new techniques, especially compared to TES 1-3 where skills just increased success chance, and Oblivion where you got all Perks at each 25 point interval.

Not only that, but Skyrim's skill balance is far better than the Skills of previous TES games. Many things in 1-4 were redundant and obsoleted by other skills ( >B-but muh speers ). The common complaint is that Skyrim took out things, but besides a scant few things that break an already broken-ass game series like levitation, that's simply not true; there are way more unique things and less redundancy (namely instead of magic/enchanting/alchemy all able to apply every modifying effect, each had specific effects limited to their skill).

Skyrim's character building is a massive step up from the earlier TES games.

>>257114926
Skyrim's skill balance went the other way. At LEAST 1/3rd, probably more like 2/3s of all the skills were completely game breaking in one way or another.

>>257114926
Elder scrolls leveling systems are all terrible. Skyrim's is just differently terrible. The only acceptable choice is Oblivion +Oblivion XP mod.

>>257102748
VP2, FF VIII, Souls, Fallout 1,2, Shadow Hearts

>>257117681
>FF8
>good
Unless you take easily broken as good.

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>>257102748
not the best but still deserves a mention.
3rd Age had some pretty fun builds. this guy seems like an obvious fighter when you get him, but you can turn him into the best caster on your team.

>>257113040
>persona
>best customization
it doesn't even beat mainline

Smt4's system is pretty good.

>>257103928
i think cloud was more attack inclined, but where did that leave Cid and Vincent?