>>256312030 I'm sorry, but you're retarded. Super Metroid is a perfect game, it literally doesn't have a single flaw. >inb4 graphics They're still good. >inb4 walljumping Stop being a pleb. >inb4 it's too short Are you serious?
>>256316834 That's a TAS, isn't it? Doing things like flipping slightly backwards into an attack you know already will be there to gain a small bump forward make it scream it, and shooting foes while inside of them makes it clear.
>>256312030 I figured out how to wall jump on my own, but yeah, it's probably the least fun part of the game, in that wall jumping just isn't very much fun regardless of whether you can do it or not. Of course, Super Metroid is so good that its worst part is still not all that bad in the grand scheme of things.
Also, what's up with the idea that the only reason somebody wouldn't like a part of a game is that it's too hard? It's entirely possible to hate a part because it's tedious or boring, not difficult.
All these grips about my favorite game of all time. Why are people so bad at critical thinking? I beat this game when I was fucking 7. Just a lower middle class black kid with no friends that lived to watch Toonami and play video games. Now, suddenly the world got an IQ nerf in the new generation patch. It's frustrating that my brain skips the trivial nonsense and gets to the solution where everybody else struggles with it daily. I'm just tired. Tired.
>>256323170 There is no such thing as something being at one state through an entire game/movie/book if it's well made. It's supposed to fluctuate from highpoints scale down then back up again you're just taken aback because you have more to learn after getting the game down mere hours ago so the learning is something you're not willing to slow down for.
>>256324390 its the layout and the platforming and water physics what not maridia just isnt as good as the rest not to mention those fucking sand sections getting out of that shit is a huge pain in the ass
>>256324390 People don't dislike it solely because it was "different". They dislike it because of the horrible underwater jump physics, horrible level design, horrible quick sand and horrible music that drones on and on for hours. I actually experienced physical illness during Maridia. I'm not even joking.
>>256315321 >go through here >notice small platform outside the glass >"I bet I can get out there somehow" >try various things >"probably something i'll get to do later" >get power bomb >come back >destroy the shit out of the tube
>>256315116 That's not true. It has very very few flaws.
>using select to toggle through the top menu was annoying and usually interrupted the flow of gameplay >having a dedicated button for running wasn't necessary since you're holding it down all the time anyway >it would have been better with an actual final boss fight
>>256324590 >>256324652 I guess my taste is just different, the music makes that atmosphere which I love. And having to deal with quicksand and confusing level design is the challenge of the whole thing. This is a game about exploration after all, but I understand that people draw the line at some things.
>>256325096 The problem is that its all just really annoying to deal with its not that bad if you know what you are doing but things like the sand pushing you down in the sand segmants and parts of the level where you almost have to know where to shoot the grappling hook make it incredibly irritating to go through for most people on early playthroughs
>>256324798 Huh, I swore that when I replayed the game, I couldn't get it to work inside, hence you can't get into Maridia early since the tube is well before that segment of the game, maybe I was just doing it wrong tho.
>>256315321 >exit wrecked ship the intended way instead of back tracking >come across an already broken tube >think about other tube >drop payload on tube I figured this out when I was four. No excuses.
>>256323809 I can't count the amount of times I've played through Super Metroid, there is no question I am completely capable of wall jumping, and learning how to do it hasn't been an issue since the first time. But that part is always the least fun section of the game time and time again. It's just not a very fun activity.
Like, imagine Super Metroid, or any game for that matter, had you stop and count gravel at one part instead. Is it a confusing goal? No. Hard to learn? No. Particularly difficult? No. Fun? Also no. Gravel counting would be the worst part of the game for reasons that had nothing to do with being difficult to do and/or learn. Similarly, wall jumping is also just not a very fun activity. I can nail it your first try and all that means is that good, I got that part over with faster.
>>256324652 Actually, I liked its music alright and as far as overall feel goes, its my favorite part of the game. Regarding the slooowww water stuff though, yeah, I could do without that.
>>256325898 i think it was ment to fuck with people because if its your first playthrough and you do that too early then its hard as shit to get out especially since you have to go through that tube a few times before getting the gravity suit
>>256326410 wall jumping isnt that bad its not even that fimmicky its just really precise and you dont even NEED it the only place its required is not only optional but little critters show you how to do it
>>256326096 First of all, wall-jumping is a skill, counting gravel is not.
Second, saying you have to "stop and count gravel" is a horrible analogy. That's a rote task which interrupts gameplay. Wall-jumping is a means of locomotion.
Seriously, you are being a bitch about this. After a few playthroughs you should be down the tunnel, get the the energy tank, get the super missile tank, walk past the etecoons and be back on your way in under sixty seconds.
>>256326551 >wall jumping isnt that bad It is. Like you said it is precise, extremely precise. >the only place its required is not only optional but little critters show you how to do it In a game about exploration?
It's a fucking flaw. it doesn't even tell you jack shit how to do it, this isn't an "It's old so it can pass!" sort of thing. They could have at least put a tutorial or an explanation in the controls menu.
This is a game mechanic that is mandatory for the game but it doesn't tell you anything about it besides that "you can do it".
>>256326896 >precise (not extremely precise just enough to have to get used to) doesn't mean its bad It is extremely precises though, it's a clunky mechanic that they should have simplified or just mapped it to a button.
>>256326096 The section was made to teach wall jumping just another skill you have to apply to get out. Also it's one room after which you never have to go back into it. I understand if you don't like it anon but I find it fun it's a vertical room filled with walljumping fun that takes less than a minute 2 tops to get out of. If this room is tedious wouldn't shooting the robots in the wrecked ship suffer the same judgement? Wouldn't the same be said about traversing the lava in Norfair riding the small jet-powered platforms to get the ice beam?
My point is if lack of fun is a legit complaint then I find it hard to understand how you enjoyed several other rooms in the game.
>>256327010 There are mutliple powerups and even a bit that's required to use the wall jump.
This is a game about exploration, you're telling us to ignore a shitty mechanic because it's optional. >I think it's becoming apparent what your actual problem with the wall-jump is Are you a souls faggot by chance?
I emulated the game on my wii for another playthrough just three days ago with a gamestop brand gamecube controller. Even jumped up the shaft several times because the stick makes midair morphballing a hassle.
>>256327118 Yes it is. and they don't show you jack shit. They show three little crittersdoing it. which says nothing besides "you can do it!" might as well tack on "But you need to figure out this really weird combinations and actions to execute it."
>>256327304 actually its you jump then when you hit the wall you press the button in the opposite direction (samus will make an animations showing shes ready to jump off like the criters) then press the jump button
>>256327267 I've beaten the game several times without going in that room or walljumping as a youngun you are just bad at independent learning and critical thinking. You have no legit complaint besides "it's not fun". We both and the rest in this thread know you are bullshitting.
>>256327253 >Did you have trouble learning to shinespark as well? No I didn't. It was a very easy power up to learn how to use. Literally the only thing that gave me trouble in all of Super Metroid was the walljump. >>256327285 >Could you be more specific? Energy tanks, missile tanks and the like. Nothing major but in a game that stresses exploration it has an extremely shitty bit of gameplay. >>256327309 No, it's a really shitty mechanic. Just because it's bad doesn't mean it can't be used properly. IT just means it's shit and ruins the flow of the game by adding a frustratingly difficult type of movement that is retardedly precise.
>>256326715 >Like you said it is precise, extremely precise. No it's not. After you turn away from the wall, you have about 1/4 of a second to press the jump button. Wall jumping is very easy, you're just really bad at video games.
>>256327706 actually speed runners use wall jumping (consistantly i might add) to go faster in the game not to mention you still cant name any parts of the game where its actually necessary in fact you can probably 100 percent the entire game without using it if you just wait to get the space jump
>>256327706 >Just because it's bad doesn't mean it can't be used properly. Actually if its a bad mechanic then it cant be used properly. it just sounds like YOU cant use it properly and are just calling it shit
>>256327643 >We both and the rest in this thread know you are bullshitting. Or the fact that you're a bunch of nostalgic fanboys who can't admit the game has a flaw. >You have no legit complaint besides "it's not fun". It's clunky and extremely precise compare to the rest of the controls, it has a much too high skill ceiling and the part where it "explains" it to you isn't anything but a bunch of critters immitating the movement of walljumping when ALL the other controls are explained to you.
Insulting and demeaning me isn't going to change the fact it's a shitty mechanic.
>>256327724 >No it's not. Yes it is. You jump towards the wall and then simultaneously jump again while moving or pressing the opposite direction on the D-pad. The only game I've ever seen require that much precision for something so minor was fighting games. >>256327832 >not to mention you still cant name any parts of the game where its actually necessary The part where the game explains it to you. >in fact you can probably 100 percent the entire game without using it if you just wait to get the space jump You can't. >>256327920 >Game about exploration >Has a shitty mechanic >YOU DON'T NEED TO USE IT!!! Yeah, naw. It was a shitty mechanic.
So it's a wonky mechanic that only works if you learn how to deal with the fact that it isn't well designed enough to actually telegraph to the player how to pull it off in the short amount of time you have to do it and is completely pointless and outclassed by an item you can get later? Am I reading this right?
That's because it actually works the exact same way the animal shows you. You go fast, hold down, and jump. Wall jumping doesn't. You touch the wall and hope it lets you jump instead of just falling back down.
>>256328282 So does wall jumping you run up to a wall jump against it (keep in mind like the animals you have to be flipping) hit the opposite direction on the d pad then jump again its the exact same as they do it
>>256328018 Beat the game, learned to wall jump. It was a shitty mechanic and took away from the game's quality for how retarded it was. >>256328042 Because shinespark doesn't require retarded button inputs.
>You get shinespark power up >Animal starts running (Which is shown to you in the controls mapping menu) >Then he lights up and shinesparks and then there is walljumping >Start out with wall jumping >No indication it's in game or how to use it except for some areas and an animal that uses it >Requires precise button inputs
>>256328157 no you are actually adding a shitload on to it so you can feel like you are right the mechanic is fine and its not necessary its just there to help you explore a little bit more in the early game but if you are a huge bitch (which apparently you are) then you can wait till the very end of the game so you dont have to learn how to do something thats only kind of hard
>>256328305 Because wouldn't that be sequence breaking?
The game is a puzzle of different shit, you could argue that most of the stff is optional but it doesn't mean that a certain one isn't complete and utter shit and there are parts in the game clearly intended for you to use it and get 100%
>>256328397 >hit the opposite direction on the d pad I didn't know animals could do that. I didn't even know they had a D-pad. >>256328413 It's clunky because it's precise. You need a specific button input that you have to guess from the animals in front of you.
>>256328695 >>Because wouldn't that be sequence breaking? no you dumbshit sequence breaking would mean you had to go to an area you werent ready for like beating madridia without the gravity suit you can beat the entire game without using wall jumping up until the space jump numbnuts
The first time I did it I sat there for a good hour trying to imitate their movement to no success. >>256328693 >Since when? The game drops you in and has you learn by experimentation Literally in the main menu and in the pause menu there is a controls option where you can map controls. >It's like complaining that typing on a keypad No, it's like complaining that a bad mechanic is in the game and people are defending it because "Muh retardedly difficult move in an otherwise easy game.
>>256328553 >Walljump on the other hand gives you no indication of what buttons you're suppose to press and is retardedly precise to the point of making me quit for days before going back and beating the game.
They teach you just as obvious as the bird. Jump to a wall then jump away from the wall from there it's simply timing. At this point I question your rhythm.
>>256328845 >They jump to the wall, face away, and jump off the wall. What more do you want? How about something that's actually explained like everything else in the entire game? Or better yet, a mappable control because fuck you for wanting a stupid mechanic to be made easier.
>You could bomb jump instead. Doesn't efffect how retarded orr clunky wall jump is.
>>256329139 The control do not teach Shinesparking or Shinesparking at an angle using L and R. The controls didn't teach using your ammunition to heal yourself. Controls didn't teach you how to space jump nor did they teach you how to bomb jump. Face it you're full of it and need your hand held throughout a game made for the thinking man. I am fighting hard to avoid the "C" word sir/madam.
>babby seeks validation >rightfully gets shat on for over 100 posts >doesn't give up
well, I applaud your perseverance, but you also just suck. I don't typically resort to ad hominem, but there's really not much more to it. The controls work fine and it's common sense, but you just can't get it.
>>256328883 >you can beat the entire game without using wall jumping up until the space jump numbnuts The section it's explained to you is a required sequence. It's still a shitty mechanic regardless. >>256328981 Of course you're assuming everyone has extensively tested Samus' jump and how it is effected by ramming into a wall mid jump. >>256329151 >They teach you just as obvious as the bird. No they don't. They mimic the movement, a lot of which you're likely to ignore unless you pay extremely close attention to Samus' movements. >>256329258 Entry level or whatever >Baiting Stop. It's a bad mechanic you nostalgia driven retard.
Every other secret in this game works fine. Shinesparking works fine. Crystal flash works fine. Wall jumping is finicky as shit and stop defending it. If you like it, whatever. Don't pretend it isn't a fucking nightmare to master in comparison to literally everything else in the game though.
>>256329663 >. The controls work fine and it's common sense, but you just can't get it. They don't though. It requires near frame perfect execution. It's a really bad mechanic in comparison to the rest of the game. Especially for something you have since the beginning
>>256330053 >If anything the bird is LESS obvious than such a simple act of wall jumping that most players will do by accident on their 1st playthrough.
How the fuck are you this dumb
The bird runs, you run. The bird ducks, you duck. The bird jumps, you jump. It works.
The monkeys jump into a wall, you jump into a wall. They cling to the wall, you just kinda hit it. They jump off, you fall back down or if you get really lucky with the timing (it is not telegraphed in any way a player can actually notice unless they spend more time learning it than they should on an entire playthrough) jump off.
>>256329825 >>256329960 Nintendo I am so sorry you had high hopes for us but only very few had the skill and intelligence to measure up. This is why Skyward Sword was a slow ass tutorial for the majority of the game and why titles like W101 get overlooked. Our nation is comprised of a 6th grade level of intuition.
>>256329813 >this guy is pathetic. Again, not proving it's a not shit mechanic. >>256330053 >If anything the bird is LESS obvious than such a simple act Yet somehow The shinespark didn't get an entire thread with multiple people calling it a shit mechanic.
Literally anything could be found by accident but the wall jump is just retardedly difficult and unweildy in comparison to the rest of the powers given to you in game.
Wall jumping in MMX works fine because the designers for that game weren't balls retarded. You just cling and hit the jump button. There's no such clinging in SM so it's a goddamn chore to pull it off.
the aliens guys literally show you exactly what to do. If you can't figure it out in 15 seconds you're truly lost. It's not like they're asking you to do single-wall-jumps or infinite bomb jumps or any of that.
>He's not willing to admit he sucks and rather blame a perfectly functioning game mechanic. >perfectly functioning
Look. I love Super Metroid. Wall Jumping is really good when you get it down. But it is not "perfectly functioning." It requires way, way too much precision and is generally a nightmare to even learn nevermind master. If you think it's "perfectly functioning" you're either a troll or one of those self-absorbed people that thinks anybody who isn't as good as you is a small child who can't do anything right.
i actually started playing super metroid for the first time awhile ago. walljumping isn't really that bad, although getting past that part took a few tries. i'll admit that i got totally fucking lost trying to find kraid (i had no idea that wall in the elevator room was bombable), and the angle shinesparking thing was something i wasn't really aware of either. but you kinda just figure it out after a bit of slamming all the buttons on your controller at once, its not as bad as most of you are making it out to be.
Saying it's optional doesn't mean it isn't bad. Sparkshining is optional but nobody complains about it because hey guess what, it isn't badly designed. It works in a way that makes sense and doesn't require you to learn perfect, precise timing. There's a reason they added the ability to grab ledges in Zero Mission, it's because wall jumping is fucking shit.
>>256331458 >1. its not clunky at all >2. precise doesnt make it bad It is clunky, and it's extremely precise. Compared to literally every other mechanic given to you, ESPECIALLY ones that you start out with it's a retardedly difficult one to use. It requires more button inputs than anything else in the game and requires you to do them perfectly. >>256331536 Because in W101 most mechanics are explained to you in ways it knows it's played can figure out.
Wall jumping is just slow and clunky compared to the rest of the mechanics in super.
>>256331674 >It has flaws but that isn't one of them. Yes and no. Walljumping is probably it's biggest flaw. >>256331692 Does Super even run at 30 frames? >>256331702 Keep those insults coming. Not accomplishing anything.
>>256331834 i never said it wasnt bad because its optional im saying its not bad because its precise. its a perfectly functioning mechanic that can help you explore and can be done consistantly there is nothing bad about it >inb4 its bad cause i cant do it
So you're saying it doesn't matter that it's bad because it's optional.
And it is bad because it's precise. Or more accurately, because it's far too precise. You can't be expected to pull it off on a consistent basis unless you spend like half an hour just learning it. Nothing else in this game takes even a minute to figure out.
>>256331990 >that barely exist that's just plain wrong >trial and error technique yeah, for the first 10 seconds after they demonstrate it while you quickly figure out how it works based on exactly what they showed you
>>256331993 I know how to do it in game. like I've said multiple times I've beat Super metroid, I've used it plenty of times, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a terrible mechanic.
I'm not calling it bade because I don't know how to use it. IT's bad because it's bad. >>256332018 >it's just a fact. Like the fact that it's a terrible mechanic. >>256332049 No one is saying it's broken, anon. It's just a bad mechanic. Bad games can work fine but it doesn't mean they're goo games for working.
I've been playing this game for six, seven fucking years and I still can't do wall jumping for shit. I know how to play the game perfectly fine and can do literally everything else with zero effort. It's not about "skill," it just isn't designed well.
But no, just call me a casual and tell me to git gud, because god forbid my second favorite game of all time have one fucking problem.
I'm not against valid complaints of classic 10/10 games, but this isn't one of them. It's not a bugged game mechanic. It works just fine. It's not too hard and it's not even super precise like people are saying. It clearly shows you exactly what to do.
If you're going to make a super metroid complaint, I'd instead bring up the glass tube. No indication you can break it. No indication that power bombs are what you need for it.
>>256332385 There's a unique sprite to look out for when doing it. I have trouble getting the wall jumping started, but after you get that first one it's just timing. I figured that out when I was eight.
See now, unlike wall jumping, that actually is common sense. It's fucking glass. What breaks glass? A lot of shit. Power bombs break damn near everything. If you see a glass tube and don't think "I bet this can be broken," you're retarded.
>>256332121 Monster X is easy. Spam Blade lv. 2 on everything. boom done Blade 2 resolves all the boss' HP in like five seconds, and if you really need to, level 3 removes half the projectiles on the screen.
>>256329310 you know, I used to think illustrations were included in kids' books and the like so that people who can't yet read can still follow along easily. But now /v/ is starting to make me think the opposite; text and lengthy tutorials in vidya is included for challenged people who can't pick up simple visual cues.
One of those makes sense because you know how to run, duck and jump. Nowhere is it stated that you need to spin into a wall, hold the opposite direction and jump, all within less than a second.
The little monkey things (or whatever) do a wall jump but it's nowhere near as easy to parse as shinesparking is from the tutorial they give. And even then, it doesn't help you learn the exact timing it requires at all.
yeah i have no problem with monster x normally. the problem comes in when you can't take one hit without dying because the game gives you no health upgrades or the missile launcher which will heavy press and ballos take longer than they should. i can't even downgrade the blade now, nothing does under 3 damage.
>>256332770 No, my argument is that it's stupidly precise and hard to use for a mechanic given to you in the beginning of the game. It's possibly the hardest one to figure out out of all the basic powerups and skills in the game.
It requires near perfect timing, and is barely explained to you at all in game. The animal critter barely explain it to you and they're unhelpful as 1/3rd of the animations they're imitating can be easily missed unlike the shinespark, because running is clearly explained in the controls menu.
It's not at the same entry level as the rest of the game and it's shit for it especially since there are section that are obviously meant to use it. The mechanic feels like a moment the devs thought "this would be cool" but got stuck on how to implement it properly and just left it.
>You not being able to grasp it does not discredit the game one bit. I grasp it fine, it's just a bad mechanic.
>>256333202 >Nowhere is it stated that you need to spin into a wall, hold the opposite direction and jump, all within less than a second. except you know how to jump and you know how to look in the opposite direction your arguments are holding up less and less
>>256315991 >get viva pinata TiP to see what the fuss is about >spend thirty minutes playing the game in five second bursts between dumb cutscenes and massive tutorial spam Literally the worst tutorial I ever played. So bad that I stopped playing the game during the tutorial because of the tutorial.
>>256333703 And then you spend the next three hours trying to figure out the timing, and then getting into a rhythm. >>256333850 >not once is it necessary to use wall jumping in this game >not once Except for the bit in which it's supposed to be explained to you.
>>256333276 When the animals jump from the wall the first thing you notice is the sound. They chirp everytime they jump off of the wall this is there to tell you that rhythm is the basis of the technique. It's explained plenty.
>>256332390 I never understood what the big butthurt over this one was about. I have literally never failed to win it and I've beaten the game like a dozen times, not including the times when I've had to beat it for friends.
If you think that wall jumping isn't a shittily-implimented mechanic then you probably think pic related takes no effort, either.
You're just a tryhard that refuses to accept that something you "learned" is actually ridiculously hard and badly designed. Yes, I can wall jump. Yes, I can reach that upgrade. That doesn't mean either works well and isn't a huge pain in the ass to do properly.
>>256334162 Super is generally the most loved Fusion isnt that good since its very linear and very heavily story based original is ok but it can get kind of confusing (should just stick with zero mission)
Try first thousand times. Every fucking time I play Super Metroid I spend an hour trying to "learn" how to wall jump and every time I realize it just doesn't work right. Don't say it's just because I'm bad, or something. It's not like I can't do whatever else the game asks of me. Wall jumping is just way too precise to be reliable unless you spend days learning it, and if you're doing that you probably, legitimately have something you need to see a doctor for.
>>256315116 I wouldn't say it's a flawed game, but everything it does has been done better in later games in the series, other than the inventory system and arguably sequence breaking but they aren't the main reason that most people play games, but I'm sure some will argue are to claim that Super Metroid is the best in the franchise.
>>256333428 dude, no. Don't even begin to pretend you're this thin-skinned on /v/ of all places.
I played Super Metroid for the first time a year ago. I already knew about its existence through other Metroid games, so I didn't really need to discover it or learn it from the Etecoons (I learned it in the other games, then, and those didn't have tutorials for it either) but the thing is that it's not difficult at all. Spin jump toward a wall, tap the opposite direction briefly so Samus is left in a certain position where she looks ready to jump off, then press jump. You can just jump up the same wall repeatedly and I found it easier than alternating between two walls... not that that's hard either. It's not finicky if it has clearly defined mechanics like this.
>>256312030 The problem with this part, is that the creatures are only showing you the general concept for how to perform the jump. But it's never explained the exact button combination that's required. Because the button combination isn't adequately explained, it allows the player to feed themselves misleading information.
At first, the player might think that they need to press away + jump at the same time. But in actuality the combination requires the player to press away and then jump. One action in quick succession after the other. By trying to perform the button presses at the same time, you might by chance press the jump button one frame before the direction button, and thus you fail. Or you might by chance press the jump button after the direction button, and thus you succeed.
The problem with this, is that the player's first solution would be to act more precisely. Without actually understanding what's required, their successes reinforce the notion that they were more precise, and the failures reinforce the notion that they were less precise. Essentially, sending the player down the road of misunderstanding.
If it were just better explained, then it wouldn't have been so bad. Or, they can do what they did with Fusion and Zero Mission, and make wall jumping more lenient.
>>256334470 >Every fucking time I play Super Metroid I spend an hour trying to "learn" how to wall jump Having trouble with it the first time I can understand. If you're having this much trouble remembering how to perform a game mechanic in a game you've played more than twice, you might be the one who needs to see a doctor.
>>256334243 So for you and everyone else complaining about difficult timings, let me ask you this:
Are links and combos in street fighter and most fighting games bad mechanics? The timing is extremely tight, and it requires a fair amount of skill to pull off consistently, but is extremely useful and effective for completely your goals, just like wall jumping, which has been proven by all of these webms:
>>256334687 >you have to shine spark through no you dont you can jump over the fucking hole i feel like you dont even know where that scene actually is you are thinking its in that area where you have to run past all those columns that go down dont you
>>256334647 >Don't even begin to pretend you're this thin-skinned on /v/ of all places. What.
I mean seriously what? I'm not thin skinned in the least. but GOD forbid someone point out SM's flaws. >those didn't have tutorials for it either Super has tutorials though. The Walljumping one is stupidly vague. >but the thing is that it's not difficult at all Except it is. >. It's not finicky if it has clearly defined mechanics like this. It's not clearly defined at all, it's pretty elaborate for a game whose basic techniques are extremely simple.
>>256334243 You do not understand the word "design". Your understanding of good video game design is the entire game should be easy or hard. Good game design is the beginning is easy to help you focus on mastering the basics and you get better as advanced mechanics are put in front of you. It's not the fault of the designers that it's hard to grasp it's fault of the player. The fact that you CAN walljump is proof that the game did not drop the ball.
>>256335295 SF4 has 1 frame links but according to you they are good mechanics meanwhile Metroid has a wall jump that has up to 15 frames to allow you to do it but those are bad mechanics becuase you cant do them
>>256335049 >No because they actually work as intended. They aren't supposed to be something a small child would do. 1. Wall jumps work every time if you are doing it right, just like links. 2. Small kids can play fighting games, there's no fucking restriction.
So if a kid can do it. So can you, unless you've got a learning disability. Honestly, I'm actually concerned for you. I think you have either a learning disability or some sort of cerebral palsy.
It may be that I just got used to the walljumping in Super, but I recall the mechanic requiring the same amount of timing in Fusion and Zero Mission, all they did was take away one-wall walljumping for those two.
>>256334796 Seriously, what the fuck is with this argument? How can you possibly be calling the walljump mechanics in SM so unbelievably hard when all they take is a few minutes at most of fiddling for anyone with half a brain? Please go play La-Mulana so you can understand what actual obtuse solutions are.
>>256335304 >You do not understand the word "design". Your understanding of good video game design is the entire game should be easy or hard.
Stop making shit up. A good game starts easy and gets harder as it progresses. It has optional areas that are hard, but not immeasurably so in comparison to the endgame. Both walljumping and reaching that particular upgrade in Mega Man X are much, much harder to pull off than their respective final boss fights.
>>256312030 I didn't realize until after the fact that this was a wall-jumping tutorial. I had been using wall jumps for a while at this point... They're tricky, but not so much after you get the timing down.
I know some other guy kept saying this earlier and you're just gonna call me a retard or a samefag but the area where you're supposed to learn it is a trap that 99% of players will fall into on their first runs, and since there's a save point at the bottom of that well most players will probably assume it actually leads to something useful.
>>256335971 you are joking right? you dont even need to light speed run to get across that shit you can just regular run and jump over it and there is nothing over there except super missles and a way back to the original area the whole thing is completely optional
It may not be necessary but almost every player will come across it by accident on their first run, so it is necessary to know how to wall jump and with how insanely hard it is to pull off right when you are doing your first run, it is bound to frustrate most players. If it was designed better, in a way that didn't require such precise timing, this thread wouldn't exist.
>>256336867 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Pm3jPmlYH6I#t=587 feel free to skip through it as much as you like but all it is is you go down then loop around back to the beginning its not necessary at all
>>256336637 You're arguing in fucking circles. This entire thread is just full of "But the walljump mechanics are bullshit because I had a hard time with them! Since I'm too inept to learn them like everyone else, they must be bullshit!"
People like you are the reason that so many games are watered-down trash. Try realizing that most people are completely capable of performing a walljump in Super Metroid and that you are the problem.
Having one mechanic that's harder to pull off than every single other one is bad design, though. This isn't the difference between running and shinesparking, this is the difference between fighting spore spawn and fighting ridley.
>>256336929 My main arguement is yet again wall jumping is completely optional to begin with. it doesnt require sequence breaking to get around or anything stupid like that its completely optional and you dont have to go through it at all. not to mention it isnt a bad mechanic in the least bit. just becuase it has a bit of a difficulty curve doesnt make it a bad mechanic it just means you have to adjust to it, which isnt a bad thing at all
>>256312030 Since I just finished Darksiders, the Black Throne.
>Get the item that you'll use for this dungeon >Backtrack to main area >Go on a half hour trek to the miniboss >Backtrack, stopping for a few braindead puzzles >Half hour trek to the same exact miniboss >Light puzzles all the way back >Go on a final half hour trek to the same goddamn miniboss >Light puzzles because you haven't learned by now >Short trek to easy boss
I quit the entire game the first time I played this level. It is like 40% of my total playtime because it's just so fucking long.
Stop. Stop arguing without backing up your claims. Stop acting as if you know anything about game design. Stop trying to mask your inability to learn and adapt.
Ultimately if this behavior continues in life you will need to STOP blaming others for your own faults especially people who work hard to make a game that had more thought put into it than the majority of titles ever released and have the gall to say they did their job wrong.
>>256337889 holy shit your fucking stupid like i cant comprehend how fucking retarded you are it being so difficult doesnt make it a bad mechanic its not even that hard to do when you get the rhythem down (which still shouldnt take you more then 10 minutes) something being harder then anything else isnt bad mechanics it just means you are to much of a bitch to figure out how to get it to work
>>256337889 I will ask you Why is it so bad. Please tell my why its a bad mechanic, why is it bad game design. >inb4 because i said so >inb4 because it just is you have moved the goal post so many times in this fucking arguement is ridiculous
Can you read? I literally just said it was bad game design because it is signifigantly harder than anything else you are expected to do by that point in the game (aka the very beginning), and harder than anything else you are expected to do by the end of the game. I'm not saying this again.
>>256327248 This, so much this. I usually got through most of hell okay, but by the time I got to Ballos my health was super low (if I remember right - it's been a few years) and I'd die soon after his transformation.
>>256339357 >so its bad design because you struggle with it?
No. Stop acting like I'm bad at a game because one mechanic is far above the skill level the rest of the game expects out of the player.
I struggle with bosses in some games. That doesn't mean they are badly designed. It means they are hard. Being hard isn't inherently bad, but there is a skill curve that games, good games, follow. It should be a diagonal line for the most part. If there is one thing in a game that is a huge spike between the start and the end, that is bad design. This is like saying Labyrinth Zone in Sonic 1 is good design and if I disagree I'm just bad at the game.
>>256339835 >its bad design why >because its hard why is that bad >because its bad design do you see how retarded you sound why is it being so hard bad design. seriously why is that a bad thing honest to god i cant figure out why its a bad thing other then "ITS BAD BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT"
Walljumping in Super Metroid is kind of hard to pull off without a lot of practice. That said, they're considerate enough to give you an exit a short ways up the pipe so all you have to do is luck into a it a couple times if you're unable to git gud at it that quickly.
>>256340284 difficulty spikes arent bad game design especially when difficulty spike is completely optional and only takes about 5 fucking minutes to figure out and maybe 10 to master if you take longer then that you really are terrible at video games. the mechanic isnt bad in the least bit even if its a bit hard. your exageration is fucking ridiculous if you honestly believe wall jumping is harder than ridley or those gold space pirates
Difficulty spikes are bad game design because good game design follows progression and gradually becomes harder (and should not become easier.) Spikes are not "gradual" jumps in difficulty and obviously the game becomes easier after you finish them. I don't know what you want me to say, I've explained my side ten times in this thread already while you're just saying I'm full of shit whenever I point out why it's bad. Why don't you explain why difficulty spikes are good? Maybe then we can actually discuss this.
>>256342142 you havent actually explained or proved your point the only thing you've said is "They are bad because I dont like it" and when someone says prove they are bad you just say "well prove to me they are good". Games dont have to have a linear learning curve there are several games that just have straight up a line of high difficulty or sevearl spikes in difficulty through levels that end up being harder then the boss and are still considered incredibly good (first game that comes to mind is the ghouls and ghosts series) things dont have to just slowly get harder and difficulty spikes are a way to see how well you can adapt to new problems
I've never heard anybody say that the ghouls and ghost games are well designed. Like, ever. Fun, maybe. But certainly not fair or of good design. Even then, a straight line of high difficulty is preferable to a difficulty spike since at least in that situation you expect something hard to come up while you're still in the (relatively) easy parts.
I'm just going to assume that 90% of these posts are bait because there is no way you people are this fucking casual. I'm not even joking, I'm not using the word "casual" or phrase "git gud" in some sort of meme sense or whatever. I am seriously dumbfounded if most of you are actually this bad at the walljump in SM.
>>256342142 I'm going to explain why your argument is flawed from the ground up.
First it is not a difficulty spike to begin with. You reach this point after getting the power bomb which by that time the player is will invested into the game and has beaten challenging things before hand.
Second you are not forced as hard as you say you are because even if you fumble around and get to the second ledge in the room you get get out of it.
Third you are blaming the developers for not showing you well enough when they used sound, sight, and give a safe practice environment to learn in. They've gone out of their to teach it to you.
You are just too proud to admit it was your own fault leading you to have issues with it in the first place.
>>256343032 So the retarded fanboys are smart enough to not have any issues with walljumping? .....Huh. At least go somewhere where people will agree with any tripe you spit out but this imageboard is full of people who actually knows what the fuck they are talking about. Let the redditors and Neogafers and Kotaku posters lap up your sour milk.
your post is the bait. >>256343691 >are smart enough to not have any issues with walljumping No, they're retarded enough to ignore issues about walljumping and just spout git gud while demeaning everyone who tries to bring up a complaint about their game.
>>256343870 Look at you, summarizing people's responses with >>WAAAAH YOU'RE JUST BAD AT IT!
Look how good at arguing you are. You are almost as good at arguing as you are at walljumping. I'm going to make sure that when the next Ace Attorney game comes out, Capcom dumbs it down for you, just so that you don't have any trouble arguing like you did with walljumping.
How the hell can you have problems with walljumping.
There's a sprite for it. There's a tutorial for it. Hell for all I know, there's probably an idle demo for it.
I was 6 years old and I got out of that walljump pit. Walljumping is easy.
Fuck the Maridia pipe though. The one thing I didn't try on that was a power bomb, as I had none on me and I figured it probably wouldn't work anyway. Then my SNES broke the next day and it ended up being 10-12 years before I finally bombed that fucking pipe. Fuck pipes.
You are. You're defensive too. You also can't take that you're wrong about this. I'm shit at Metroid games and I figured out wall jumping by accident before I even got to that part.
You have no awareness or ability to perceive and adopt new techniques and ideas. That's all this boils down to. You know how every single person that bought and finished Super Metroid didn't have a problem with this, but you did? Yeah.
>>256344042 >Look at you, summarizing people's responses with Because most of their responses can be sumeried as "you're just bad at it." recent examples>>256343837, >>256343462 The entire first bit of the thread is "git gud faggot" Oh and here is another insult>>256344317 You fuck make me want to troll metroid threads. This is fucking awful Wall jumping is a shit mechanic. >>256344080 this>>256333276 and this>>256334692
Your greentext is exactly right, you faggots are simply bad at it. I'm sorry, I don't know how else to put it. You guys can go back and forth all you want but the fact remains that myself and countless others beat this game and utilized all of these mechanic at the age of fucking 6 or 7. Too hard for you? Play a different game. Not to harp on a tired cliche but it is seriously idiots like you who can't figure shit out that has led us to the hand-holding games we play today.
>>256344451 Did you ever consider that the reason they would say such things is because you're acting like a little bitch and refusing to admit that you could ever be capable of doing anything poorly ever?
>>256344584 >you faggots are simply bad at it. No I'm not. I can wall jump just fine. It doesn't make it a good mechanic. It's a terrible mechanic. It's stupidly difficult compared to the rest of the game, barely has any explanation, and the entire game would have been better off without it or at least a simplified version of it.
>>256344702 >Try to talk about video games. >People get upset when they're wrong >Decide to troll, continuesly ignore shit just to piss off people who are in the right just because they're wrong What an extremely childish thing for you to do.
Congratulations. That means that you can get the full enjoyment out of the game since you were able to master the techniques. I don't get this weird argument for games creating a completely level playing field for everyone so that we are all winners! Good job! I'm not saying bad mechanic don't exist, but this wall jumping is definitely not high on that list.
>>256344568 >I'm good at metroid games. You can't call yourself good at metroid if you can't consistently walljump. >inb4 hurr durr stoopid mechanic i have the reaction time of a 80 year old Try mastering ibj, hbj, mockball, speedball, short charge and quick charge
>>256345026 What? Wall jumping is fucking awful. Super metroid has an extremely entry level difficulty but wall jumping is retardly difficult and has multiple sections of the game that are designed around it. and with it in mind to the point hte devs added a shitty tutorial for it.
The mechanic is just bad. >>256345032 Walljumping is in only a handful of them. and they've made it significantly better in later installments by not making it infuriating. >Try mastering ibj, hbj, mockball, speedball, short charge and quick charge >Says "he's not good at metroid Dude, fuck off. It's a bad mechanic.
>idiots who can't figure out a mechanic that takes some trial and error >tryhards that can't accept that said mechanic is terribly handled and act like anybody who has trouble with it is a retarded neanderthal
I gave up on the game at Sigma after trying and failing so many times.
I plan on going back to it at some point and doing it legit. I don't want to look at guides or videos of people doing it because that feels like cheating, although I did watch a video of it a while back. I hope I don't remember anything important from that video. I like the feeling of accomplishing something for myself.
>>256330065 First time playing what when? I had trouble with that part too, and I had my only save there so I had to git gud and it took me a while, when I was fucking 8, and I didn't speak English so all the magazine guides I had were useless to me, they had pretty pictures tho.
I cannot believe a young adult or an adult could have trouble with this, the harder part is figuring wtf is happening, not actually pressing the buttons.
>>256345434 >retardedly difficult Look, I just started my copy of Super Metroid on my Wii U. I haven't played this game in about 5 months. It took me 3 seconds yo figure out how to wall jump again and I'm shit at this game.
Look wall jumping isn't the hardest thing in the universe but it is bullshit and a huger pain in the ass to pull of than it really needs to be, Fusion and Zero Mission prove this. You know how long it took for me to learn how to do it properly and consistently way back when? Like four hours. That tutorial they give you doesn't help at all.
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