What takes more skill?
Competitive level FPS (Quake 3, CS1.6, etc), competitive level fighting (Street Fighter, Tekken et al) or competitive RTS (Starcraft and the like)?
Fighting games are physically the most draining of them all.
I never played RTS, but it seems comparable to shootan games in that you need a million years of experience, and can't rely on muscle memory to get out of tough situations.
RTS, by far.
Are you kidding?
>Fighting games are physically the most draining of them all.
Nigga please. RTS is carpel tunnel central.
Competitive MOBAs, by far.
The games you're talking about don't require anything resembling skill.
FPS: spam AOE weapons
Fighting: mash buttons
RTS: follow a strict predetermined sequence.
Supreme Commander Forged Alliance.
But seriously, they all use different skills that are sometimes cross-transferable. In Quake you have to track a whole load of powerups. In fighting games you need to read your opponent and set up tricks and traps. In RTS you need to manage things all over the map.
Professional RTS player would probably make a decent fightan player because impeccable reflexes and quickthinking
Professional fightan player would suck cock in RTS because WAAH I GOTTA THINK ABOUT THINGS?
FPS players are faggots
>What takes more skill?
Wrong question. They all take varying levels of skill but only FPS have a skill ceiling that humans physically cannot attain
>Thinks MOBAs are anything but one long joke that everybody forgot the punchline to
>thinks shooters boils down to spamming rocket lawnchairs
>thinks fighters about about smashin random button
>not realizing that like half of pro players' APM is pointless actions that don't accomplish anything
When they don't have anything to do at the moment, they just click the ground, select random units, cycle through unit or building groups... all that typing away you see in that webm is probably only 50% actual actions that do anything.
>FPS: spam AOE weapons
Good luck when the opponent is bunnyjumping and moving around like a retard and at the same time keeps shooting you with his railgun.
>Fighting: mash buttons
And succeed with a combo once every 30 seconds, glhf.
>RTS: follow a strict predetermined sequence.
That might work until the opponent attacks or harasses.
>that don't accomplish anything
So what you are saying is that moving in Quake3 is shit for the same reason because it's all patterned and only reaction and aiming skill matters?
Can anyone show me an RTS or Fighting game which comes even close in skill and impressiveness to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7RstH423lw
I don't think any genre but FPS has as impressive and highskilled gameplay.
>RTS: follow a strict predetermined sequence.
lol, aren't DOTA 2 and LoL the games where they can ban you for not strictly adhering to the metagame that says you can only use certain heroes for certain things? MOBAs do the same thing idiot
No, I'm saying watch a stream of a pro player sometime. They spend all their downtime "keeping their fingers warmed up" with junk actions that inflate their APM.
I'm not trying to talk shit, this is really what they do. People seem to be under the impression that all 300 of a pro player's APM are meaningful, but they're just not.
Unless you're trying to say that drawing random boxes or clicking on the background are meaningful actions that advance the game. In which case you're just dumb.
Quake fanboy here.
While I agree that the reflexes necessary to be that good are insane, there are split-second moments in games like SF4, as well as other fighting games. (I hate SF4, but I still accept this.)
Yes but split second reaction times in fighters aren't the same.
You can't have muscle memory for a juggling somebody with a rocket launcher before airshotting. But you CAN have muscle memory for shitty street fighter combos
Every time you see someone pull off a long combo of normal moves in Street Fighter 4, try to remember that each of their button presses had to happen in a 1-2 FRAME window or else the combo would stop, in addition to having to predict blocks and counter hits while doing it and changing the combo accordingly.
Fighters are muscle memories
FPS is agility and precision
RTS is being in a trance, having spasm that are halfway useless since pro players use muh APM to cycle through units, and being a raging faggot when you lose a second of efficiency. Same apply to moba, except the trance and spasm are non-existant until a teamfight happen.
I've played all games besides fighting on a competitive level.
Clanwars with CS 1.6
top 80 ranking in SC:BW.
CS takes allot of communication and team play , not so much individual skill.
Anyone can out shoot a pro player once you know the recoil patterns abit (still need reaction).
For CS:BW you really needed to do 10 things at the same time which was really hard and exhausting.
People bullshit you with needing high APM , it helps but its not needed at all.
I had less then 90 APM almost all game.
Sure real pro player get 300+ , but its mostly unnecessary shit.
Anyways it does take allot of skill.
Quake also needs allot of skill but unlike CS its 70% or more aiming and reaction time.
Remembering armor stacks and health pick ups timers is childsplay.
But a really good Quake player has unmatched reaction time and mouse/eye coordination.
I can't talk about fighting because i always was a PC-gamer.
But ive seen street fighter which was pretty low skill in my opinion (tekken was way harder)
Also anyone saying MOBA's taking skill is half right only.
It does take individual level skill but its so much teamwork based skill.
And like CS , you can't compare team-skill to individual-skill.
Its just not the same fucking thing.
Its also the reason why CS and Dota are played in teams.
And the others are solo games.
CS is teamwork
Quake is twitch/aim/reaction
can't say about fighting.
RTS is build orders/reading opponent and strategies.
You can't compare them , and its foolish to do so.
Reminder that Warcraft 3 is the hardest RTS in the world. It's so hard that the Koreans couldn't handle the incredible micro required and stuck with their casual babby-tier Brood War.
Grubby, between banging his qt3.14 azn GF, swimming in his money, and slaying chinks and gooks on battle.net, was forced to move onto StarBabby2 because he had run out of opponents who dared face him in WC3.
It's not just about reflexes but also about prediction since you have to estimate a ballistic trajectory. Also, the movement which involves jumping sideways while moving the mouse in a certain pattern to maximise the speed gain.
And I bet you believe that jock straps can actually be lucky. It's not actually a necessary thing to keep your fingers "warmed up" at any level of play. It's just a thing people do and that's their reasoning.
Which are limited mechanics not in every fighting game.
Meanwhile shooter players have to judge depth, relative speed and motion of projectiles and targets in real-time over and over.
Just saying 2/3th of the actions by that SC player is inflation of APM.
Its still 10x more of a MOBA player tough.
But you can do most of the RTS games easy with 60-90 APM.
You need to have good APM in micro-intensive fights tough.
Yes but those smaller aspects of reading enemy players aren't as fundamental as aiming a gun is to a shooter. Aiming guns in shooters is a higher skill activity than anything in the other games. Fighters come close to the reflex requirements but feature rigid control schemes are predictable situations.
It's not necessary to justify every little thing someone does just because they're pros, dude. Useless things become the norm all the time in professional leagues of all sports and games.
>which takes more skill?
Whichever one has the most skilled players.
The amount of effort required to win is entirely dependent on who you are facing. This is a silly question.
I like watching the screen on the bottom left, looking at wong smash at his arcade stick harder and harder. you can see the moment where he realises he's fucked and he slumps forward
man it must suck to be at the losing end of such a legendary video
>spamming splash weapons and missing with a laser pointer 90% of the time
Rivalry between grubby vs. moon.
Moon won more on average.
Grubby was good too.
You had allot of other good players as well tough.
Lucifer , TH000 ,Pornosonik are some i remember who where good as well.
Fighting games usually lack the parity in their rosters to say that the games are mostly based on skill. There's a huge fucking gap in the tiers in some games, and that can make all the difference.
The only fighter that has true parity is the one that damn near nobody plays: Virtua Fighter 5.
He actually parried the hits, which requires pressing the toward button at the exact right frame. And he did it for every single hit of Chun Li's super move. If he had blocked, he would have suffered chip damage and lost.
Stop trying to minimize impressive feats in games you don't understand the mechanics of. It just makes you look stupid.
>The move is a super move, which is always the same every time. If Daigo had blocked, he'd take a tiny bit of damage from each hit and thus would have lost. However, if you time it right, you can "parry" an attack and take no damage. This isn't easy though, as you have a window of a bit under 1/10th a second where you can parry an attack. Doing this once takes some practice, 16 attacks in a row at high speed is insane.
Good for you.
APM does not say shit.
You can have a million actions per minute but if all those actions are fucking retarded ,you still suck.
If you only do a few moves the whole game , but those moves are great , you will win.
Saying how good your APM is like saying how many times you stepped on the gas pedal during car racing.
That's still one hell of a performance.
Grubby couldn't beat Moon or Lin the 2 best WC3 players.
Also Grubby wasn't even a top 5 microer in BW.
My friends Demu and viOLet invited me as a clan member of Serious Gaming which later sponsored Grubby. I didn't get paid or sent to tournaments but I was used by them as a practice partner. I could see the disparity after playing Manuel a lot that he wasn't on the same level as the Chinese or Koreans in the micro aspect of his game but was so much better at macro that it more than made up for it.
It kind of shows, because when he switched to Starcraft 2 he never accomplished anything significant except for winning his own tournament hosted by himself. He never had more than average stalker blink micro or deathball control.
SFIV is actually pretty damn balanced, for example, Yun and Cammy are consistently top tier, and nobody played either in the EVO finals
The only characters you can actually call bad are Dan (intentionally) and arguably Dee Jay and Hakan
This isn't the norm for the genre at all though and unfortunately most fighters end up with a couple characters dominating everything
top skill: RTS
mid skill: fightan/quake
low skill: other fps
CS player here. this is truth. anyone who disagrees only does so to feel like theyre better at games than they really are
>Not so long ago in Moscow there was held a tournament of Counter Strike 1.6 game. The event didn’t promise too much, just a usual competition between two Russian top teams. They are Virtus.pro and forZe, the most famous game crews not only in their homeland, but worldwide also. In the beginning everything’s was as usual, teams were preparing for the game, setting up their devices and etc. Tho there was one “but”: some nameless girls, of which nobody knew, were sitting and walking around the gaming-room. And when the game started, the whole room of a playground turned into a dance floor with loud music and half-naked hot girls. It seems that sponsors of the event wanted to make a surprise for boys and test them for firmness. Let’s see what was more important for hi-tech gamers, pretty girls or their score in the game?
In a world tournament, with thousands of people screaming and judging your every move.
I don't think you know the difference of playing a match at your comfy sofa and at a huge tournament
The amount of frames he has to press it aren't important when it's the same amount of time between each one every single time he has to parry it.
Pressure is irrelevant because it can be applied to any of the games.
Competitive FPS takes aiming skill with the mouse, split second reaction time.
Competitive fighting games require button memorization and quick reflexes.
But for competitive RTS you gotta be a goddamn keyboard pianist. That's more complicated than any of the rest.
>people actually think muscle memory reflexes in quake takes more skill than fightgames/rts
RTS is memorization of builds and counters and fast clicking
FPS is reflex and being accustomed to the game and aiming.
Fighting games is just playing it a lot until it becomes automated.
I think fps is the most fun to be good at. It just becomes more fun.
Rts is a bit of a drag to play at a high level. Because you get forced into a certain method of autistic playing.
Fighting takes no skill just experience.
So if one player starts an attack and the other uses a high-priority throw to throw the first player and prevent the damage from the attack they started, that's a block? There was a physical collision and the damage was prevented.
Speaking as old studies I have read for competitive, FPS players have the highest IQ, RTS players have the lowest, which makes sense since FPS is about reaction speed and precision
Now, that said, a FPS player not only has to track himself, he has to track every item on the playing field at any moment, as well as track his opponent on the playing field without seeing him, all done in a 3D space and not a flat playing field
On top of that, he has to manage the whole physics system of the game in order to play, pulling off shots like firing a rocket from across the map and hitting his opponent through a half foot wide window after he comes through the teleporter upstairs cause he predicts he's going for an item etc
>4f timing-intensive parry that prevents block damage and yields massive advantage.
>No timing block, but yields zero advantage in most cases.
>"They're the same, you're pressing buttons!".
>"Firing off a single concise sniper round from across the map is the same as spraying point blank with a SMG... I mean you're just pressing a button to shoot!"
This is how remarkably retarded you are.
>any button press that prevents damage is a block
>okay, so if you press a button to dodge and prevent damage that's a block
>no, there also has to be physical collision
Nice goalpost moving.
RTS requires strategy and precision
FPS requires game knowledge and reflexes
Fighting games require knowledge, strategy, reflexes, precision and the ability to execute complex button inputs under pressure within a 5 millisecond timeframe.
no man, its just guessing what your opponent. Memorizing a build isnt that hard, not like memorizing a move on a fighting game. Other than that , fighting games and RTS'es are very similar.
Depends on your definition of "skill"
If by "skill" you mean learned ability, then fighting/rts win
If you mean talent and innate situational awareness, then quake takes it by a longshot.
Also, I'm surprised action games weren't even given a mention in a skill thread.
Ignore the shitposter that doesn't know jack shit about fighting games. Aspiring FG tourneyfag here. Genre that takes most skills are in order:
RTS > Fighting > MOBA > FPS
...but this is just comparing the skill ceiling you need to achieve to even consider being worthy of participating in a tournament and maybe winning a match or two. When it comes to high-level play, since they are competitive genres, the skill levels you'll have to face will vary wildly, and measuring "what takes more skill" is an uselessly abstract endeavor, to be perfectly honest.
tl;dr - The amount of effort and skill necessary to break into a genre can be lower or greater between genres, but there's no such thing as a genre "needing more skill" when it all depends on the current competitive environment.
5 millisecond requirements is inaccurate. 17 milliseconds is 1f in a 60f game. GG has FRCs that are 1f, and SF has links that are 1f which would put 17 milliseconds at the absolute pinnacle of the timing requirements in that genre.
>That's not how you spell bushido blade
Bushido Blade is actually a broken imbalanced mess.
Only character worth using is that big guy in blue with maximum strength.
Most weapons are also bad.
It goes Naginata > Broadsword = Sledgehammer > Katana >>>>> Everything else
Going on the offense is also punished because of how powerful guarding is.
SF4 is not balanced but it's not horrendously imbalanced.
Dan is stronger than Deejay and Hakan.
Strong Characters not reaching the end of a tournament does not mean that imbalances are nonexistant.
In ST many tournaments that don't ban Claw will have O. Sagats and Dhalsims.
O. Sagat is so strong that he invalidates over two thirds of the cast.
But O. Sagat doesn't always make it to the grand finals.
Luckily, SF has Plinking. I can never FRC correctly, fuck.
in terms of skill
I'd say the skill difference between fighting games skill and quake skill is very slim though.
>people still posting this as proof of FPS skill
He spends half the match running because the other guy has a better weapon, then the other half spamming randomly in all directions hoping to hit something. When they finally do meet face to face, it's all sidestepping jukes with hitscan laser weapons, whoever moves their mouse slightly faster wins. I've seen better matches in TF2 lobbies.
The good thing about GG is usually the best FRCs are 2-3f, and only weird like self-projectile cancels are 1f (but they are supremely pimp and lead to the craziest-looking airdash multiple overhead setups).
Seriously? You bitch about that one word?
Explain to me, how is theorizing not guessing? Its still guessing because you can be wrong at both situations. A theory is only a guess that was based on something.
>They're for button masher where eventually the move comes out and a lot of spamming the same combos
Combos are the least important aspect of fighting games. Also you can't feasibly "mash" most combos either.
I agree that RTS' generally take more skill though.
>competitive level fighting
>corner smash spam
You can post this same picture with just about any activity/hobby over the last twenty years. Kids born in the 70s/80s were who you saw in Quake and BW, SC2 and MOBAs are the current thing, so, kids born in the 90s. The new generation is weak as fuck, but the reasons why aren't for /v discussion. Just saying that said image is more accurate as to that problem, rather than being indicative of a difference in gaming selection.
So many people parade around that word when talking about FPS games, as if you need some inborn ability to be great at them.
You don't, it's pretty much as simple as lowering your sensitivity and suddenly you aren't a shitter anymore.
>there are DS games that are more difficult than mobas
>mfw faggots who know nothing about RTS say that all it is is following build orders.
>mfw the last WCS murrica was won by some no name faggot doing whatever the fuck he felt like.
/v/ stop talking about competitive gaming, you're all terrible at it. you casually play a game then make an absurdly broad statement in the face of players who have been playing competitively for years
I can't really comment on either FPSs or RTSs, as they're really not my thing, but Fighting Games can be incredibly taxing and requires a lot of time and effort to git gud at.
broodwar is fun as fuck to watch. shit actually happens around the map and it's not just the drop/ling runby/warp harass shit from sc2 until 2 big armies run into each other for 5 seconds
You have no fucking idea what you're talking about. The movement from A to B is the only thing you really have as muscle memory, like how to move up one particular set of stairs on a specific map. You do that a bunch of times, then it's memorized and you repeat it the same way everytime you come across that part of the map.
Other than that gameplay in Quake is too situational, positioning changes too unpredictably to go off muscle memory in any meaningful way when facing an opponent head-on. Besides, Quake is about fucking map control, keeping track of items. Either you don't know shit about the game or you're willfully omitting the most important aspect of it. Not sure which would be worse.
Do you mean "reactions"? Reflexes play NO role in games. No reflex on the human body is helpful when playing video games except maybe your gag reflex if it prevents you from choking on your drool.
Fighting by a landslide. Both hands need to be as fast as your eyes, you have to understand everything about the specific game, and you have to know and understand how each character works to understand the matchups.
>not muscle memory
All 3 of those things also apply to fighting games with more emphasis on tactics and strategy than endurance and being able to play for long periods of time is not a skill or talent.
If I like it, it takes so much skill only a few god-chosen individuals are able to play it to its full potential
If I don't like it, it is some babbyshit you can play using only your dick
Everything you said about fighting games applies to RTS the difference is you are controlling dozens of units while also fighting dozens of units while trying to also manage your economy, form a game plan, scout the enemy, build units and on top of that complete micro management of various abilities across each individual unit and need to know the game inside and out including the map and every single unit. One mistake which at 300apm is very easy can cost you the game.
In fighting you control one character and you fight one other character (maybe slightly more depending on the game) but in general your focus is just on whats at hand.
Fighting is like a light version of RTS.
>have to understand everything about the specific game, and you have to know and understand how each character works to understand the matchups.
This pretty much actually applies to every competitive game.
I love how all the FPS fags brag about skills, yet they show videos of these skills in segments, nothing consecutive. Does that mean that they're just getting lucky, & getting those hits in 1/50 games?
>apply to fighting games with more emphasis on tactics and strategy
Not in the slightest close to RTS though, its a joke if you think that. Don't get me wrong fighting games do need tactics and strategy but not on the level of RTS.
>being able to play for long periods of time
Being able to play for 2 hours with no breaks, while managing huge armies, economies, ever changing tactics and adapting to the enemy, takes fucking skill.
Fighting is more about the one on one encounter and the mind games that go with it anyways, so I can't argue that point, and anything more that either of us say is personal preference and involves a certain mindset to be able to deal with proficiently, but saying fightan is a light version of anything is blowing shit right out of your ass.
Fighting games are also about strategy and tactics, hell, that's what we call the "fighting game fundamentals" are all about. RTS do take endurance, though, and I think both FGs and RTS are very close skill-wise...with RTS being slightly more difficult to become "good" at.
Arena FPS>competitive fightans.
Arena shooters require more strategy than fightans by a lot, complete map control, split second reaction time, perfect accuracy, and constant prediction is required to win on a competitive level.
Fightans require a lot of skill too but there is no map control or aiming element. It requires fast input and good reaction time to win but not much else.
RTS games require skill in that you need to be good at managing resources and controlling the map to win. It lacks the twitch reaction requirement FPS and fighters have but due to the nature of the games I wouldn't rank it below them, they're too different.
The verdict is arena FPS>Fightan with RTS on the side
Not really, RTS is like a fighting game where you control 100 units and an economy.
Fighting games are like an RTS if for some reason population cap is at 1 and there is no economy.
Everything a fighting game requires is needed at a much lower level than in an RTS game.
No one will agree with me.
The meta of RTS comes down to running scenarios and if you can run yours better than they can run theirs. There are hardly any huge deviations from those scenarios because nothing else would work as good. Anything can happen in fightan. Fightan is more about reactions, short-term planning, and mind games and RTS is about long-term planning and micromanagment. Saying one or the other takes more skill is fucking idiotic because they are two entirely different things.
>managing huge armies, economies, ever changing tactics and adapting to the enemy, takes fucking skill
That does, but sitting on your ass does not. And the latter 2 also apply to fightan.
It's obvious you are letting your bias get in the way of any actual discussion so I won't be responding to you seriously anymore.
Fighting games are shit because its just spamming combos over and over.
FPS games are shit because its just spamming AoE and hitscan weapons in hopes of hitting something.
RTS games are shit because its just about raising APM.
There you go, now never make this thread again because it's a fucking waste of time and everyone in this entire thread literally couldn't be more wrong.
>not calling it "the flow"
Fuck videogames, why would they have to hack my settings? ;____; I just want to play again
RTS are like a fighting game where you can combo infinitely with one click, doesn't matter if you have 100 characters you can select them all with one button and make them combo all at once. It's worse than P4A.
>The meta of RTS comes down to running scenarios and if you can run yours better than they can run theirs
No literally no.
>There are hardly any huge deviations from those scenarios because nothing else would work as good
Which is why in every tournament the games always play out the exact same?
>Fightan is more about reactions, short-term planning, and mind games
Again this all applies to RTS but at a higher level, look at the reaction times of the best micro players, 350apm and they can still move dozens of units individually to avoid multiple lasers all in under a second.
>Short term planning
Short term planning, again this is highly used in RTS.
This applies to any competitive game, in RTS it consists of trying to trip them up, fake them and try and get them to think your doing something your not, a lot of games are won off the mind games.
I played fighting games at a pretty decently high level, learn the shit out the game, get good reactions, then just try and be better than them for a few minutes. Shit is simple as for RTS I still can't get anywhere near the level I was at fighting.
O get into the "flow" or "trance" or whatever you may call it in almost any competitive game. Most matches I play in CSS or Tekken are pretty much me thinking about random things while kicking my opponents ass.
People who haven't played a game like Quake won't understand what it takes to be able to pull that off. He's dodging, attacking and strafejumping all at a level far beyond what I could do. And he does it all at the same time. His map knowledge is almost perfect as well.
Yes but at a high level you don't do that not to mention, you will have various units, with different abilities not to mention say you are playing a game which a units ability has cost you can't just spam them all.
At a high level you do it all individually, across multiple units trying to get as much synergy as possible and making sure its cost effecting and you use the units ability which this different units ability etc etc all in the space of a second.
>FPS players generally agreeing that some FPS games are very intense. Some require not only visual but audio cues of their surrounding as well as good hand-eye coordination to win at the game.
>Fighting players pissing and moaning about how a game that only goes in three directions has a higher skill ceiling than Quake 3 Arena.
>RTS players still doing what they've been doing since Warcraft came out: thinking they're better than everyone else because "Epp Pee Ess go bang bang! Me no like! Ep Pee Ess id fur dumdums! I play smart an muhchure gaems fur mahchure peepol lik me!"
This nigga right here >>256043206 had the answer you searched for and because of your want, need and desire to cause chaos and ignorance of the black community, we have a 300+ replies of shitposting.
>no literally no
Top kek. Most, if not all, of early and middle game is planning.
>Which is why in every tournament the games always play out the exact same?
>Again this all applies to RTS but at a higher level, look at the reaction times of the best micro players, 350apm and they can still move dozens of units individually to avoid multiple lasers all in under a second.
Fightan involves reactions to the point of reacting to 3 frames of animation. Saying putting out, say, 10 commands to many units takes any more skill than putting out 10 commands to a single character is absolutely stupid. The former involves more focus on getting those commands to more units while the latter involves doing those commands to one but extremely quickly.
>Short term planning, again this is highly used in RTS.
It also matters less and they have way more time to react in RTS.
>This applies to any competitive game
But mostly to fightan because any hesitation, even splitsecond, can completely destroy a player. That's why people complain about online because that tiny bit of latency can fuck everything up.
>I played fighting games at a pretty decently high level
Stop being vague about this. Your definition of high level can be much different than anyone else.
>Control of the map to evade opponent WITH CLEARLY OBVIOUS SUPERIORITY
>Whoever matches cursor fastest wins
>Because actions per minute in RTS is clearly not the same fucking thing
Shut up, bait
I teared up badly at the Galileo thing.
This year's EVO was definitely the best in fucking years. The ONLY bad thing was Bonchan pretty much handing 1st place to Louffy.
Nigga you are THE BEST SAGAT IN THE FUCKING WORLD. How long does it take throwing full screen Tiger Shots before you realize you're feeing Rose meter.
I've seen scarlett do many different openings. I've seen her do everything from double hatch first to 10pool bane to fucking playing protoss for god's sake!
You don't seem to understand that matchup very well. Even if you feed her meter, you are controlling the distance to some degree. If he didn't fireball, Rose could do absolutely anything she wants. The fireballs still had pressure, Bonchan just couldn't deal with Rose's damage output with the Supers he had to give her.
I hate to argue about which has the highest skill ceiling but I think fighting games are the most exciting to watch. Evo 2014 Blazblue was fantastic
I think that competitive FPS, Fightan and RTS all take about the same amount of skill, but they take different skills.
I mean, looking at this faggot's post:
I could tell that he had memorized the map, where people would go, how people would/should react to getting rocketed away, etc.
That's a lot like map analysis in an RTS game, and strats and counterstrats, etc.
You also have quick clicking, which goes in both genres, etc.
But the skills are still different, if equally valid.
Bonchan's Sagat is known for his impeccable spacing. Bonchan lost the finals because her clearly did not understand the Rose matchup. Even Daigo was telling him to stop throwing fireballs
Except keeping APM up has more to do with continuity of movement than inflating the number.
Despite you putting "keeping their fingers warmed up" in quotations, you've done nothing to prove why that's illegitimate. It's the same premise as fighters keeping their hands moving in a fight, tennis players moving their feet prior to a return, etc. Starting up from a stand still will always be inferior, and in a game where half seconds in build time or order delivery can swing the tide of a match, what appears to you to be arbitrary movements for the sake of anxiety reduction or sheer quantitative boasting has real utility.
But of course, your explanation is better, and definitely rings of experience.
Spacing does not immediately mean zoning.
I'm just trying to understand the situation from Bonchan's perspective as a fellow Sagat player.
>Daigo in charge of knowing matchups after getting double bodied because of that exact reason
Don't be rude, Scarlett is a woman now.
And it's also not necessary to denounce what you can't understand simply because your skill is capped at a ceiling that wouldn't benefit from such implementations.
You're trying to win an argument as an outsider to the issue. If you actually utilized the techniques in an RTS at a competitive level, as I and many others do, you'd be saying what I am. But since you can't see it, you'll remain in denial from a limited perspective--like a FPS player who can't grasp why players with increased reaction time benefit from higher refresh rates due to physiological differences in their eye's flicker capture rate.
So you're saying you're too weak willed to focus on the job/competition at hand if there's a stripper nearby?
Sorry, but the number of variables and coordinated muscle twitches necessary to enact something in SF4 pales in comparison to Quake. For fuck's sake, you're only operating in two dimensions in the first place.
>literally 1 build order per matchup
>games on for hours because of units that spawn infinite amount of free units
I swear to got RTS players are worse than anyone when it comes to discussions like this
So fucking what? With most other genres, it's a matter of picking the right time to perform an action. Not making a move is just as important as making one.
In an rts there are also generally exponentially more "right times" and strategic/tactical moves to move over FPS/moba.
They just aren't as flashy as instant gratification FPSs and flashy bright color mobas, and generally subtle unless theres a multiprong battle occurring.
> 1 build order
Ling Bling Roach/Roach Hydra/Ling Bling Muta
Just about any mix of ling roach and muta can work, and you can mix in hydras if they go maxfaggotry and starts flying around.
Ling Bling into WHATEVER COUNTERS THE INFINITE PAINSTREAM. Fuck terran. They're fun as fuck to play against, but if you fuck up once, you're dead. The in ZvT, the steaks are razed.
Bioball, Mech, 1v1v1... They all work.
IDK, don't play T.
Mech, bioball and Infinite Drop Works seem to be the builds du jour.
> I'mma do some cheese. I have 400 to choose from, so I'll just hope he doesn't scout me.
> I'mma do some cheese. I have 400 to choose from, so I'll just hope he doesn't scout me.
> This matchup suck, I just get cheesed all the time.
I imagine that RTS at that caliber is a lot like a game of chess.
Fightan games really are all just about exploiting combos, and getting setups, except for smash where you cannot memorize a set pattern of buttons and hope to win.
Competitive FPS is a lot about tactics too but overall less high level thinking involved
>Fightan games really are all just about exploiting combos, and getting setups, except for smash where you cannot memorize a set pattern of buttons and hope to win.
Why do you even have to fight over this?
Cant we just say that BW is the unchallenged champions, with Arena FPS and Fighting being equal on rank 2 and all the other stuff being fucking shit because its impossible to meassure the ceiling on team play?
Fuck this debate.
BW>Arena FPS=Fighting>TFT=CS>>>DotA>LoL>>>>MMO PVP
As the guy said, clicking the ground and on units while not giving them new orders is just spamming APM.
Effective APM on the other hand is when you issue orders like: right click to move, attack, anything that makes structure or unit DO something.
The koreans in interviews just say they do it because it helps them "warm up" for late game where that kind of APM is actually needed.
Try going into a tournament thinking you mastered wavedashing without actually knowing how to utilize it and see what happens. There are no set combos that work 100% of the time because of DI and variable knockback at differing percentages. Only thing I will agree with there is with ice climbers chaingrab. And even then it's so *fuck all impossible* to get right that hardly anyone even tries because they'd get rekt in the process of trying to get a grab.
>Team Based FPS
>tfw TF2 didn't reach its true potential as a competitive game
Imagine fighting games having a white community.
The average skill would be infinitely higher, the tech discovered way more advanced. Unfortunately the genre is infested by lazy niggers who need to 2 years to get used to frame changes on a blocked DP.
6v6 is objectively the best way to play competitive TF2. They literally tried every single composition and nothing has beaten that. They tried the best highlander team in NA against invite-tier 6s team, in several maps, 6v6 team won every single one.
>turn base games
Yeah because Operational Art of War or Grgsby's War in the East is clearly easier than Ass Effect ( casual tier action rpg )..
Are you retarded ??
What a lot of people don't realize about this video is before Justin supers, Daigo is keeping just enough space between them that he knows about how many hits he'll need to parry. That's why he's not getting very close. Little things like that are very important in fighting games and aren't necessarily very transparent which can make them hard to learn.
Wow something made for drummers in mind takes a drummer to successfully play, wow!
2. fitan geams
3. shootan geams
why do you think BW is so much more skill based than SC2?
potential is limitless in either game and is limited only by how fast you can think and how fast your APM is
in BW most of a player's potential is consumed by achieving an APM high enough to efficiently macro manage. these actions require no significant thought, they're simply "filler" actions that must be performed in order to play efficiently.
in SC2 most of these actions are eliminated or simplified to the point where macro management can be achieved with relatively low APM thus shifting the focus of one's actions from mindless macro management actions to precise micro management actions.
Melee has way more mobility than traditional fighting games. Also the objective is different which can lead to some crazy ways to kill people. Hit confirmation is only in the form of stun which can still be a gamble to pursue sometimes. Most combos are initiated purely off tech chasing and predictions. Games like MAHVEL are basically "you get hit once you die". Never before have I seen a game that can punish ANOTHER character offscreen for a mistake you made with your current fighter...until marvel. Obviously that's an extreme but most fighters are like that to some extent.
And all that time you spend getting good at a videogame could have been used to become good at something useful in real life :)
That's like saying, "picking up reading is a waste of time" or "having a hobby is a waste of time". A hobby's a great way to relieve stress and get your mind off of real life. Fighting games (and the other two as well I guess) are great hobbies to pick up specifically for that reason.
Are you implying video games aren't part of real life? That's the same as saying people that are good at writing or coding don't have any skills in real life. However it isn't a very useful skill, I'll let you have that.
>Never before have I seen a game that can punish ANOTHER character offscreen for a mistake you made with your current fighter...until marvel
That's wrong though, it's because you called an assist incorrectly.
The fact that you're thinking about Marvel like this shows you don't know how to play Marvel.
>Most combos are initiated purely off tech chasing and predictions.
As opposed to?
I'm just teasing about the not fightan shit
It's not about recoil, it's about how most guns in shooters have a certain firing cone in which the bullets can hit. This could make the difference between a miss or a headshot. Risk control is a different skill, but generally a game completely without rng is more dependant on skill that one with.
Also in 1v1 arena fpses (duels), the shooting is actually secondary to the item control.
It's extremely frustrating to play a duel, where you can't get any armor/hp, weapons you want.
Have you even read my comment?
And no, you haven't hit a sore spot because I suck at vidya and refuse to play any games competitively. Hell, I play most games on easy if i am not very familiar with the series or genre
Ultimately I think the list should at least be broken up into team and 1v1 games at the very least.
At the higher levels, I actually think rtses, dueling, and fighting games all have similar concepts, but the way they put them across is very different. Fighting games are interesting because there's very little information that's hidden from you on the screen. With rtses and arena shooters, you have imperfect information.
>Not recognizing BuckWheat as the unchallenged champions
Gee anon sure is not hunky dory with the flory dory
Which takes more skill to use, /v/?
The obvious answer is, of course, neither. you need constant hand-eye coordination with the hammer and good control of power, you need strong shoulder and upper back muscles and stamina for the hand-saw, and you need speed and good wrist movement for the screwdriver. These are different tools, used in different tasks, and they don't draw from some generic "skill resource" pool.
Same for game genres. They have shared skills (hand-eye coordination, raw reflex, reaction time, planning ahead, thinking outside the box, muscle memory), but other than that you can't really compare FPS and RTS, or RTS and Fighting games as equals. I respect anyone trying their best to get continuously better at any of these competitive genres.
It's too bad that rts games are played this way. At this speed it's more about knowing a few attack strategies and executing the one you think is right instead of strategizing on the spot.
A bit like how marvel vs capcom 3 has people spamming their attack patterns on others instead of playing a nice communicative match.