Let's do this.
Smash thread 2 electric boogaloo. previous here:
There was no surprise and Bowser is the second coming of Fox.
>mfw brawl is superior to melee in every way other than the physics
>mfw brawl had such a ridiculously larger amount of content than melee it's unbelievable
>mfw /v/ assumes everyone is a normalfag that has friends to play with
>mfw brawl is objectively the best package, the best bang for your buck, the best all-around complete game in the series despite tourneyfag protest
It's a shame because all you faggots complaining and saying you don't care about the single-player content ruined everything.
Now Sakurai can not bother putting in worthwhile single-player content because he figures no one cares, and he still won't bother to improve the multiplayer.
So you've fucked us all, faggots.
>Bowser is the second coming of Fox.
>People actually believe this.
Why is /v/ so bad and easily impressionable. More than half the roster isn't available and I guarentee you Bowser still gets his shit zoned by guys like Falco etc.
>brawl is superior
>apart from this one thing that makes it fucking terrible
>art style was garbage
>physics were terrible
>gameplay was more casual all around
>unnecessary nerfs(specifically Ganondorf and Jigglypuff)
>subspace was boring
>music style wasn't consistent
>just wasn't as fun to play as Melee
Brawl was still fun, but it wasn't nearly as good as Melee.
OK so I'm going to throw a controversial opinion into the mix here.
Why do people want combos? Sure it's nice to combo people and I'll agree that smash doesn't have dial-a-combos like traditional fighters so they take a bit more skill. But when you're getting comboed it's boring, you're just waiting around until you get your turn to do stuff again. Granted you have to try to DI in those situations but it isn't very stimulating.
>Bowser is going to go back to shit tier when his only sin was to decimate complete retards
Smash is both a party game and a fighting game. Party game is not a genre. In the same way, Mario Kart is a racing game and Guitar Hero is a rhythm/music game, and they're both party games too.
>He actually thought somebody was going to be revealed!
No. He'll probably be the same, maybe he'll get his jabs nerfed. Welcome to the nerf zone, along with Marth. I main Falcon and he's probably gonna be shit again, so you're not alone buddy.
Combos are fun. And in smash it's less boring to be comboed because you're DI'ing and looking for tech opportunities all the time.
But like you mentioned, this is just opinions. Combos aren't objectively a good thing, just something that most people find fun.
>Why do people want combos
Because combos are almost objectively hype as shit, especiallly in a game where you have to make them up on the fly like Smash because of DI. Also because it reward getting a hit and being offensive, an art that Smash has lost ever since Brawl.
It shouldn't be fun for the one getting combo'd because they fucked up and put themselves in a position to get combo'd. Every single moment of a PvP game is not going to be fun for both sides, trying to balance around that is stupid and impossible.
Without combos the game literally devolves into a pokefest and there's very little incentive to go on the offensive, which leads to a lot of camping and stalling (Which almost NO ONE finds fun) and is why Brawl is so universally hated because that ACTUALLY HAPPENED
Why is this retarded "electric boogaloo" trend a thing?
Do 99% of people even know what it means? Furthermore, is the stupid TF2 update in any way related to making threads?
Why are people so fucking stupid?
Why was momentum carrying into jumps taken out of Brawl? That has been part of video game physics fundamentals for literal decades and was included in both 64 and Melee. The dev team chose to take it out, but to what benefit? The loss of this mechanic was one of many things that contributed to the lack of offensive/approach options in Brawl, as well as something that made the gameplay unnecessarily slow.
Surely just getting the hit is that reward. Combos just make the reward bigger.
I think that the reduced reliance on combos and greater focus on aerial play in the new game is a good thing really. The idea is to get them off the stage quite early and then follow up with off-stage play, especially now that the ledgehog mechanics have changed. If you're good off stage as well as on stage then you're going to kill faster than people who just try to kill with what short combos are available from on the stage.
>Sakurai: My cat is in charge of game balance this time.
>Sakurai: I hope you guys like the changes.
Link / Donkeykong
Link / Kid Link? (Didn't get the chance to play melee much)
Link + Snake / Link, Snake, Ike, Wario, Weegee, Gaymanwatch, Pit, Wolf
And for Kerfuffle:
Link / Lil' Mac, Rosalina, Pit
>I think that the reduced reliance on combos and greater focus on aerial play in the new game is a good thing really.
This is the exact same thing as Brawl and that game's competitive community is dead.
64: Link / Pikachu
Melee: Pikachu / Marth, Ganondorf
Brawl: Marth, Ganondorf / Ganondorf, Snake, ZSS, Wario
4: ZSS, Ganondorf, Wario, Little Mac / ?
At this rate I'll have 8 mains in Smash 4.
SSB64 : Link / Link
Melee : Link / Captain Falcon
Brawl : Captain Falcon / Game & Watch
SSB4 : ???
Because of the nature of how combos work in this game, a lot of them are more of an earned reward than a guaranteed reward.
The combos are usually short as well so the time spent getting comboed is not nearly as long as other traditional fighters. The action is consistent for the most part and don't break the pace of the game.
>lttp/oot better than skyward sword
>ttyd better than sticker star
>sm64/sunshine better than 3D land
>super metroid/prime better than other m
>sf64 better than sf command
>melee/64 better than brawl
You're stuck in the past! Fucking tourneyfags!
This is the only series for which /v/ defends casualisation and the removal of good gameplay mechanics. Even Mario Kart & Party have better discussion about gameplay than Smash.
That's because of Brawl's reliance on defensive play, though, not wither of the things mentioned
Not to mention the game had a good run; people played it competitively for almost five years before it really died.
He's okay, but most of his moves take 50 billion years to come out. His jab is his life, his neutral air is his love and his back air is his friend. Everything else ranges from kinda good to pretty awful.
>Surely just getting the hit is that reward. Combos just make the reward bigger.
This. A heavy combo-reliant game becomes a game of "hit first, then repeat the sequence"
It's "hype" at first but gets old fast.
Which is a pretty insignificant reward alone in Smash.
So a character like Bowser gets zoned the fuck out by say Link, taking damage from his cornocopia of projectiles and the like, and when he finally gets in he gets one measly hit and then the situation is reset? Whereas Bowser took tens of percent in just approaching him, Link gets off nearly scot free because Bowser can't follow up because the game's mechanics are shit. This is why Combos should exist so that the reward matches the work you have to put in to be offensive.
See the above, also you're frigging horribly wrong because the aerial play is even worse thanks to just how much landing lag on aerials there is across the board
No, you don't understand. Stop trying to skew the words to fit your own desired conclusion.
The term has existed for a while. Nobody is denying that. After valve's stupid update, it started being used here on /v/ for threads at least 10~20+ times more often than it used to be
>Falcon will never be as good as he was in Melee because MUH NURFS
I will make it my personal mission to rape every newcomer and knee everyone. Sakurai wants to take away Falcon's mobility and power? I'm taking away the fun from his beloved casuals. NOT EVEN ITEMS WILL STOP ME NIGGER.
Didn't get a chance to post this in the previous thread. It's shit.
>Who are you and what are you doing in my house, also have you not bathe in the last year?
>I'm here to show the light and the dirt gives better control. Where is your nearest CRT?
>Stop playing brawl and play the only true Smash game, Brawl
>I don't play video games if that whats your asking
>Where is your nearest gamecube and/or backwards compatible Wii
>Isn't that like 15 years old or something, why I still own that?
>Luckily I brought my own Gamecube and CRT, now chose a character. Also no items as I don't want you to have unfair advantage at some point
>I don't know any of these people, I guess I'll just that pink ball as it has a normal name
>HAHA, CHOOSING AN G TIER CHARACTER, WHAT A FUCKING FAGGOT
>Pick a stage and by pick a stage your only choices are FoD, Pokémon Stadium and Yoshi's Island as thats only things we have unlocked
>But there is like 20 things here
>Those aren't balanced enough, you might gain an unfair advantage at some point
>But I never played this before
More like 1 and a half before the mass exodus back to Melee and P:M's birth. Brawl at tournaments now is just a game to potmonster, not a game to take seriously as a main stage game.
Confirmed FFA hero or plays against total shitters. Ike was garbage and overly relied on his jab to do anything.
That's why people find melee to be really interesting.
Most of the time the combos are 2 or 3 hits, nothing too long.
The "combos" that most people like are the people following up from what they did earlier; along with the occasional long combo
In a traditional fighter, maybe. But in Smash it works a whole lot better because of how freeform the combo system can be. Not to mention Smash combos are a fraction of the length of SF or god forbid anime combos
Yeah, I liked playing him too. He's surprisingly better than you'd expect, but that's partially because even though his moves take forever to come out, they also last forever so they punish dodges pretty well. I don't like playing him as much in PM though, his jab feels like shit now.
Combos rack up damage faster which increases the pace of the game and your ability to punish the opponent's mistakes. Compare to Brawl which was basically just hit and run so the matches took forever.
>Casuals all though Pit was overpowered in Brawl
>Sakuri nerfs the fuck out of him because of it
>Pit was an easy D tier in competitively play in Brawl
Life is suffering. It's alreadyclear that his recovery and arrow have been nerfed, I'm terrified to see what everything else is like
Bowser does 30-40% per hit? News to me.
Not to mention this game you're describing sounds pretty lame to me, watching one guy get lamed out then finally get in for a single hit then game lamed out for another however many minutes. Not fun to watch and probably not too fun to play outside of the winning party
>Casuals all though Pit was overpowered in Brawl
Holy shit I remember when I first witnessed this in person, playing with some friends
They'd just throw out side-Bs at each other, and the other guy would just run right into it and then bitch about it being overpowered
I was so fucking baffled, and nobody seemed to notice that I never got hit by it
Sakurai's cat as an assist trophy when? I know he showed up in Pokemon Stadium or something.
Except no, stream monster.
I know it had five years of life because I played it for four. Project M didn't even have a huge showig until about a year ago, after Brawl had largely died off.
I consider Brawl to have been dead after the whole ban MK fiasco in 2010, so yeah I say Brawl really "lived" for about 2ish years. After that Melee started to make it' resurgence and eclisped Brawl quickly
Why do you do that? What do you gain? It adds nothing of value to your thread. It's not funny. It's not witty. It doesn't bring people into the thread. It's like you're just trying to say something stupid like "us nerds, huh? XD"
It's not different than shoving triforces all over your backpack so that everyone knows you're a queer.
An 4 stock game of Melee is usually over within 3 or 4 minutes, as opposed to brawl where running out the clock is the norm. Brawl is basically if the Young Link/Jigglypuff matchup in melee comprised the entire metagame
he WAS. Now he's SS Tier and wrecking all your shits.
Smash 4 is the reckoning of the lower brackets, with the top being blown the fuck down.
>Even Melee's campiest matches like YL vs Jiggs don't run out the timer
>No one finds a Brawl match timing out even remotely alien at all, and depending on the character is the standard even.
You sure are fuckin stupid m8.
You were defending Brawl's anemic slow pace by saying that the same could be said for Melee.
We literally had a match in Melee Top 8 that lasted a minute (Axe's 4 stock of SW) and matches that didn't involve Hungrybox's lame ass Jiggs didn't tend to last much longer than that. Even the ones that did have HBox in it and the dreaded YL vs Jiggs matchups didn't even take up all 8 minutes
Meanwhile Brawl matches frequently go to time and consist of throwing out retreating hitboxes hoping your opponent is stupid and tries to approach.
No, I asked why are long matches inherently bad, then you (or whoever that was) replied with something that can be applied to melee.
High level melee does have a lot of zoning, hoping, and waiting for the other player to make a mistake. You can not be so blind as to not notice this.
People just need to try harder as Kirby. Maybe they need to play campier or something. I'm sure if people started to adopt him then he could rise up the tiers. As the years have gone on more and more characters have become viable with characters like Jigglypuff, Falcon and Peach reaching "high tiers" because people worked out how to play them. Amsa's yoshi is another good example of how someone can work out how to play a character and make them viable.
The tiers are just a snapshot of the metagame at the time they are composed. Within days the characters who are viable could completely change because someone works out how to git gud with Kirby. Tiers aren't as rigid as they're made out to be, they're actually super fluid, as witnessed by the many iterations of the tier list, and therefore they don't really exist.
>there's very little incentive to attack your opponent
>camping and stalling
If you really think this, you weren't playing Smash right to begin with.
Why do people like you have to try to make everything Big Bang Theory-tier
You can, but in Brawl you're inherently put at a grave disadvantage for doing so because of how biased the game's mechanics are towards defensive campy play.
That isn't the case in Melee for the most part.
I'd be wrong if I said it doesn't. However you can also effectively rushdown your opponent with characters like the Spacies, Falcon, hell even Jiggs as Mango's proven in the past, and not be putting yourself at a massive disadvantage for attacking like you are in Brawl.
I like how a tournament final looks "natural", like a legit match in this game, and not outlandish like tournament finals of the older games with all their BS. Now I'm convinced this will be the best Smash yet.
here's a few facts
kirby has a pretty shit recovery despite his multiple jumps
kirby can't combo to rack up percent
kirby has very few good kill moves (he has uair which is slow and hard to land, he has bair which isn't particularly strong and the only other thing left is his fsmash, good luck landing that when you need it )
kirby is light and so he is extremely susceptible to being killed very quickly
if he gets hit by falco's down b on the top of yoshi's story he dies, now that's just sad
it's not like kirby has secret potential, what can kirby do that is comparable to yoshi's egg stall, or his parry or his combo game?
Kirby is a broken ass character, his throws can be broken out of easily, he's lightweight, his range is ass, his only KO moves are slow, shitty attack power, etc. After 13 years of Melee being out nobody has found even a single exploit that would make him better. People knew Yoshi had access to techniques like parrying and double jump super armor but aMSa was one of the first to actually use them consistently and even then he's pretty limited by his character. Once people started finding out his gimmicks people were able to adapt and beat him, just look at MLG where he lost almost all his best of 5 sets. Like it or not, some characters are objectively worse than others and need to overcome a lot more to be even remotely viable and characters like Fox, Falco, Sheik, and Marth have been at or near the top of the tier list since the game came out.
>it's not like kirby has secret potential, what can kirby do that is comparable to yoshi's egg stall, or his parry or his combo game?
I'm glad you asked.
The tier list stagnates progress for tourney play. Characters are perceived as unviable and therefore aren't played as and this stops people from learning new skills with them that might manage to make them viable.
I'll agree that Kirby seems to be a piece of shit, but I bet you could make something of him if you tried and experimented.
People really don't know how to tech? I remember teching off all the walls at the bottom of temple as a casual preteen who mained Kirby and didn't know about wavedashing or L-cancels.
So since we didn't get one, when do you guys think they will actually reveal the next newcomer?
I'm assuming mid-August
Been watching some matches for a while. Why does no one use Rodalina's down b?
When's the next Nintendo direct? Or rather, when's the next possible time that Nintendo could announce a release date for Smash Wii U?
Overall Smash 4 doesn't have as much tech skill as Melee, I don't think anyone was expecting otherwise
But on the other hand, 4's cast has lots of off the wall and in depth characters. I think that alone will make 4 develop a decent meta game
>Implying Edgehogging is completely removed.
If you're in freefall you still can't take the ledge from somebody on it, so guys like C.Falcon are still boned.
Although real talk the new ledge mechanics sound hella interesting.
I like playing Marvel too. Unfortunately my mains in both Smash and Marvel happen to be shit.
It promotes off stage aggression such as spikes, meteors and gimps. How is that possibly a bad thing?
Stream restarting in a few hours. Expect Bayonetta, Hyrule Warriors and some
>thinking they'll just announce it long after the tourney is over
You were silly to expect one at the tourney in the first place. Sakurai's not at SDCC, and didn't make any post about a newcomer on miiverse. The "surprises" have already been shown. Its silly to expect a reveal at Comic Con anyways, Japan always comes first.
wow a frame perfect trick where it lets you get a grab from platform to a specific area in centre stage so that you can get 7% damage off of down throw because everyone knows that kirby's back throw and forward throw are so shit you can mash out before you even take damage
Little Mac has a meteor although I agree his aerial game is bad.
From the looks of the final last night they may have reduced the autosweetspot for ledgegrabs. Larry was edgehogging from onstage with down-forward-tilts so I guess that's an option.
Why must all these threads devolve into Melee vs Everything?
It's not gonna be Melee 2, guys. Some people like it that way. Bitching about it here will do nothing.
>b-but we want an improvement from Melee!
Other than that standalone statement, I've yet to see anything to even suggest that.
I do wonder who I'll really end up with. Bowser's drop-kicking action seems great so far
Stand your ground nigga, don't let your self off the field. Don't let your opponents smack you around.
HOLD YOUR GROUND.
That and don't quit like a bitch when getting knocked off the field because his recovery isn't as good as the rest. If you played Falco and Ike, you can his shit recovery. Just Side-B ASAP after your two jumps
Yeah, which will make some characters shit.
Since smash is about making your opponents fall offstage and not about doing damage for a KO, characters who can't guard the ledge from recoveries are fucked because the way the majority of kills are gotten in smash is denied to them.
That's not necessarily a bad thing. My only issues with Brawl are the piss-poor roster balance and tripping. If the new Smash ends up with a more balanced roster than Brawl, I'll be satisfied.
Here's how it generally goes.
>tourneyfags bitch and moan "it's so sloooooooow brawl 2.0 waaaaah"
>somebody says something along the lines of "lol tourneyfag tears"
>tourneyfags explode, screaming shit like elitism even more than tumblr tends to do
TIER LIST IS BULLSHIT
IT'S ALL ABOUT INDIVIDUAL SKILL
64 : Expected Link, played Pikachu and Mario
Melee : Expected Pikachu, played Roy, Fox and Pikachu
Brawl : Expected Marth, played Marth, Fox and ROB
SSB4 : Expects Lucina, Little Mac and Greninja.
Yeah, too lazy to post a pic of that
It's pretty convincing knowing a guy who dropped into the loser's bracket his first round can get his head in the zone and manage to fucking dominate his way to the top, and he wasn't using any cheap tactics any of the 'pros' at the Smash Event did like hiding and staying out if it all. Bowser MIGHT be nerfed because of this, because he really did have a shit ton of strong moves. I think the only reason the dropkick got so many kos though is because of the second pause between the charge release and the actual kick. It's easy to mispredict when it will hit so if you come up from a ledge you could wind up landing right in it.
>Implying it's not baiting shitposters and casual elitists going "LELELELE TOURNEYFAGS ARE GONNA HATE XXX" leaving people actually knowledgeable about competitive Smash to futilly debunk whatever garbage is being spewed only to get "BUT IT"S A PARTY GAME STAY MAD TOURNEYFAGS" in response.
I honestly don't know why they even try, at least /vg/'s Smash thread discusses the gameplay. /v/ is just filled with retards all around and don't even get me started on ROSTERFAGS
Recently i've learned how much Diddy's down B is godly
I'll echo the sentiment:
Only on /v/ do you have people defending casualization and the deliberate removal of depth from games
You are the cancer
Why is this so hard for people to wrap their minds around?
Two people of approximately equal skill play as the same tier character. It now comes down to the individual.
One player of greater skill plays as a shit character while the other plays something decent. It comes down to the individuals.
Two players of approximately equal skill face off. One is playing as a shit character and the other something decent. Shit character loses outside of luck.
Jesus fuck and I've been arguing against the tourneyfags all thread. This is just common sense.
It doesn't have to be melee. The issue is that brawl grossly favored defensive play to the point where very few characters could make a proper approach. This surfaces at even the most casual of play.
Then there is the lack of momentum and inertia making characters like captain falcon feel much worse.
Sakurai even commented on the former as a large reason for brawl online not being fun. The solution to that is obvious - more movement options (sidejumps would be cool) and faster recovery on moves on hit and block. But he hasn't really commented on that which is a bit concerning.
It's better to have a large swimming pool with a slope to multiple depths than one small swimming pool at shallow depth.
That all said, smash 4 looks really fun but it might have a short life like brawl if it's got less depth. Sakurai's comments on online/netcode are worrying.
That piss poor balance is the fucking outcome of making the game slower. ATTACKING IS NEVER SAFE!
Therefore balancing becomes next to impossible because the scenarios in which a characters' advantages show are far more complex to discover and replicate
So how badly was Sakurai blown the fuck out by a tourneyfag at some point to be so pro-casual to deliberately make the game not possible to be played competitively?
It's really some out of this world assmad. What and who do you think caused it?
>because of a bug
What bug? L-cancelling was intended, as was conservation of momentum when airdodging.
Yes, wavedashing is an intended part of the game. Or at least wavelanding.
His time has come. I'll take another look at Ice Climbers too if they can still Desync. If they're shit then I'd just play Rosalina.
>L-Cancelling,enabling faster gameplay and was in the friggin game guide for N64 smash
>Momemtum carrying into your jumps, allowing more movement options thus allowing more oppurtunites for offensive gameplay
>A Dick move tactic
Nah he's right, you truly are the cancer of these threads
>couldn't even type a full line of text without shouting elitism
I'm sorry, am I triggering you?
The smash patriarchy keeping you down?
Honestly, what's the trouble for Sakurai to implement L-canceling back into the game? It pleases the competitive fan base and doesn't bother the casual fan base. Why would he just refuse to bring it back?
>4chan gave me PTSD
I can't wrap my head around this.
>>mfw brawl is superior to melee in every way other than the physics
>and the garbage singleplayer
>and the non-existent balance
>and the random tripping
>and the fucking molasses speed of the gameplay
>wait what was good about it again
It all goes back to August 11, 2013
"When Masahiro Sakurai was asked if the next Super Smash Bros was going to be competitive, he said no. We asked why and he replied with." "I do not think people actually want to play Super Smash Bros competitively. If people do want to play Super Smash Bros competitively, they have Super Smash Bros Melee for that."
L canceling wouldn't be necessary if moves recovered faster naturally. It's an executional aspect that I wouldn't mind seeing gone - casuals being able to play faster is good for everyone.
The distinction with wavedashing is that they probably never intended for it to be used the way it is.
Sadly Sakurai didn't take this opportunity to introduce new mechanics from something people were using. Imagine if every character had dedicated combat and escape slides.
He originally mentioned that when he went to arcades he noticed the smoke laden fighting game areas being cliquish and bullying other patrons and that he didn't want that kind of environment for his game. Back before brawl.
There are people who play the video game 'Super Smash Bros' in competitions. They fight to find a single winner. It's competitive. You just don't like it, anon, and it's okay to have that opinion.
He saw that anyone that spent more than a month playing Smash after release would get their ass handed to them by someone who wanted to get good at the game in general.
He didn't like it. He wanted everyone to have fun, whatever that fucking word means to him. Fun for him is having characters randomly trip, a mechanic that only he and EXTREME casuals liked. Though I'm sure someone on /v/ will defend tripping.
He has this weird soccer mom mentality, where he wants everyone to win when it's not possible in a game like Smash. There HAS to be a winner and a loser. It's weird that he thinks this way, because the field he works in is also competitive, even if in a different way.
So he dumped whatever physics engine HAL Labs made for Melee, made everything floaty and slow so the casual player always knows what is going on, and he even nerfed some items in Brawl. As of right now, I have no idea what he is doing. I just don't care anymore, and I don't he does, either.
The choices he makes are just too fucking weird. I think he may secretly be fed up with the whole thing, and just directs Smash because he needs a big paycheck. I don't say this because of anything in particular, it just seems to me like he doesn't give a fuck anymore about what people want.
The irony when tourneyfags argue this has been making me bust nuts laughing all night.
Face it, you're just bitchy because you're the minority for once.
but it's an image board with people you don't know and people you will never meet and will never see the name of and it's the same for you unless she was retarded enough to post her personal info on here.
So... There is a competitive fan base, it's just small. Right.
See, I don't see why people think that things won't benefit all players. Having faster move recovery and more movement options makes the game runner at all levels.
It's funny because competitive Smash has some of the friendliest non-hostile people there can be in any community.
At least my experience was like that. I went to a meetup of comp. players playing friendly matches for practice, and everyone was chill as fuck. They even taught me a thing or two, and I got a little bit better. I don't think most of /v/ has had this sort of experience.
You do realize you tourniggers are the MINORITY, right?
Sakurai just doesn't give a fuck what YOU think.
Jesus fuck you're like the people who bitch at GameFreak for making Pokemon a poor competitive title.
lol, I think you at least forgot about gamefaqs, you inept-minded tourney tosspot. At the end of the day your kind is spewing just as much bullshit as those gosh darn "casual elitists"
64: Link and Link
Melee: Link and Doc/Falco
Brawl: Falco and ZSS/Meta Knight
Smash 4: ZSS and Fox/ZSS/Little Mac/
Awww, is someone butthurt because he got made fun of for being bad in other games?
Even though the sole fact you actually post on /v/ means you're probably not even really that "casual" and actually spend a lot of time playing video games and are still terrible. Meanwhile even top players in competitive games still manage to juggle having a job and even significant others.
Face it, you're a failure anon.
Christ. So much for hoping for a Smash without broken characters.
It had more to do with the fact that the people playing Bowser actually had some decent Smash experience. All they had for competition were Young Links spamming Down Air and Sheiks spamming projectiles. Obviously they would get their asses kicked.
I actually think Sakurai could learn a thing or two from Gamefreak. 99% of Pokemon's fanbase probably doesn't give a fuck about EVs or IVs or natures or anything of that sort, but rather than remove those features entirely they just decided to streamline things and make them more transparent. You can now catch Pokemon with 3 perfect IVs, there's a minigame to EV train Pokemon, battling and training has generally been made much less of a hassle. Rather than remove techniques like crouch cancelling or L cancelling maybe Sakurai could just incorporate an advanced techniques tutorial in training mode or something, having those mechanics does not hurt anyone.
What's funny is that with each progressive generation Gamefreak has thrown more and more bones towards the competitive community. Dream World Abilites/Super Training, piss easy breeding etc. So clearly they're aware of that audience and catering to them ever so subtly.
Why can't Sakurai do the same?
Even though I'm doing all this arguing about how I prefer Melee gameplay and physics, I'm still buying the new game anyway. I guess it doesn't matter end the end then. Any other tournyfags that are gonna buy Smash 4?
are you retarded?
his neutral Air, his forward air got hyperbuffed
his Normal A got buffed too
irrelevant, but his final smash is also better
The only nerf is to his B , but his side B is honestly better. It has KO potential while "YAYAYAYA" was just cute.
64: I started off as the guy who wanted to play as Not-mario, but then I found out fucking Ness with in the game and I had to rep Earthbound. I was banned from playing 64 Ness among my circle of friends because they believed he was broken.
Melee: Naturally, I wanted to continue repping EB, but Melee Ness just wasn't as good. HOWEVER, I also fucking loved Mario 2 and was delighted to see that Peach was based on one of my favorite mario games.
Brawl: I tried Peach again and... it just wasn't the same. She lost all of her good tech, doesn't jump as high, and playing her feels like walking through molassas. However, I love Pikmin, so Olimar was there to pick up the slack.
Kerfuffle: I'm wise to Sakurai's game. I know Olimar is probably going to be shittier this time, so I'm nipping it in the bud and trying out Little Mac first, then I love Fire Emblem, so I'll probably try Robin next. We'll see, though.
L canceling was also already a casual friendly mechanic in 64! The goal in smash was to convert fighting game ideas to more fun and easy to do gameplay. L canceling was the way to do it for recovery canceling.
Is 2 or 3 months a reasonable amount of time for Sakurai and the devs to implement reduced landing lag for aerials and other fixes into Smash Wii U?
It looks good but I miss his old forward smash.
>charged up smash attack from one of the strongest characters gets a lucky hit on a bunch of light (except for yoshi) high % characters and kills them
>pls sakurai nerf boswar is op
Smash 4 looks fun, so yeah I'm still gonna get it.
I don't think it will be a better competitive experience than melee, but I know that it's casual play is going to blow the other games casual play the fuck out.
bought the game without knownig anything, mained everything. Mainly kirby, mario, fox, who were surprisingly the high tier
Melee: wanting to main everything. game was ridden with clones and an imbalanced bracket where space animals, peach, marth or shiek were used or bust. Mained Peach, Shiek, Space Animals surprisingly too. didn't follow the tiers or competitive seen when I was 14-15.
>Brawl: I wanted to main everyone. I main everyone
>Kerfuffle: I will main everyone.
I cannot for the life of me see Sakurai's reasoning. He wants the game to be a party game? People who like that gameplay will play FFA's with all items on very high on all stages. Competitive players can just play with modified settings. Everyone is happy. Why is it so difficult for him to see this? He can please both fucking crowds.
>being so desperate that you resort to implying things about the other anon's life
You make yourself look like you're actually the failure with no life when you post this, though. How ironic did it feel to post that?
Figuring out how to make the best use of this Stand is basically what my first fights will be all about.
It's funny that you mention Pokemon because Game Freak routinely includes new features that the vast majority of the casual fanbase will never, ever bother to learn about or implement. But they implement them just the same because they know that competitive Pokemon has a following.
>unbalanced isn't worth much
Depends on the type if multiplayer game and how unbalanced. Most likely than not, the game isn't instantly shit just because it's a bit unbalanced at the highest level if skill.
>anyone talking about gameplay is a meleefag
>anyone talking about the roster is a ridleyfag
>anyone who uses items is a casualfag
>anyone who knows enough about the game to not button mash is a tourneyfag
Is there anyone here right now that honestly enjoyed Brawl more than Melee from a GAMEPLAY standpoint?
People are going to say yes. I heard in a thread last night someone saying they preferred Brawl because among other things, input lag allowed them to "set shit up" better against more skillful players.
Every time I go back to Melee, it just seems unpolished and less fun.
It's more satisfying to chase people down and land KOs, due to how fast it is, but that's literally it. Everything else about the game feels less refined, and that hurts the game imho.
I always end up going back to Brawl after a week or two of Melee.
I mean, what are these absolutely perfectly balanced games you play?
I like some things more about Brawl. I like the air dodge better in Brawl, I like that you can crawl, I like that you can footstool, I like that you can grab ledges while facing in either direction.
I prefer the speed of melee's gameplay but everything else is better in Brawl.
There are some people who prefer the slower, more thoughtful pace of brawl. Nothing wrong with that. You can make excellent games with thoughtful gameplay in mind.
But every good thing Brawl did was instantly invalidated by Tripping.
They could, but they won't.
Huge fan of the series but this is probably the last one that will ever be hyped at all, if not the last one ever made.
Sakurai is too stubborn, and with his health problems, it's doubtful he'll be putting himself through this again when people 'aren't appreciative' of his work.
Why are you guys so against it, it adds to the gameplay; by adding risks to using aerials. Aerials should be something you can toss out and be 100% safe because you l-canceled.
you literally cannot find a more balanced multiplayer game, the better team wins without fail
wish it wasn't on the otherwise godawful PS3
Yeah I know, it's like... the harmony between casual and serious play is quite evident in the pokemon games and yet, here we are with Sakurai making the tears of smashfags flow endlessly. Why is he such a cruel smash tyrant? It's like watching a greek god smite the helpless people that worship them in utter fear of the god's supremely dominant power over them. That's what Sakurai is to the smashfags he smites with each new smash game and it's the funniest thing I've ever seen. It's really like a troll from /v/ is actually in charge of the smash games, like Sakurai was put under mind-control by a casual elitist /v/ troll after he made melee.
L M A O !
Because it negatively affects everyone and in some cases makes relatively bad characters even worse, among other things. There is no reason to do it. Not everything needs a "risk" in the form of the game actively working against you.
Tell me why a very, very standard attack like an aerial should not be a safe move.
Seriously, anyone who actually buys this casual garbage is almost certainly underage. Anyone old enough to have played Melee wouldn't be even considering purchasing this.
Not talking about Melee here but, an example that would answer your question would have been snaking in Mario Kart. That was a top player skill that simply broke the game.
The majority of them are
>b-but this one move out of the 100 i-isnt safe
It adds depth and strategy to a game that desperately needs it. Let Smash Wii U be it's own game.
Yeah, I'm fine and, thanks for asking! How are you? Butthurt? No? Good! But, I think you're getting a little too concerned over my silly post, as if you had autism and couldn't take a little silliness for what it were...
Aerials aren't 100% safe in Melee/PM, that's 64 you're thinking of. In Brawl there is too much risk to using aerials, which shuts down offensive options, whereas (IMO) Melee struck the right balance. SSB4 is looking to be a bit better, but it would probably benefit from reduced landing lag.
If you like the risk/reward stuff, how about reduced landing lag only on aerials that connect with the opponent?
I guess you play most of the go to games on PC
No man left behind this time, even if Pac-Man is shit. I will find a way to git gud with him.
>what is shield grab
>what is upb out of shield
>what is shine out of shield
>what is FUCKING ROLLING OUT OF THE WAY
even if you have frame perfect shield pressure with fox or falco you can ALWAYS roll out or DO SOMETHING
you're NEVER shit out of luck
Because it differs from melee doesn't make it a poor choice.
Players should be punished for randomly or mistiming an aerial. Similar to other fighting games where you throw out a poke but miss leaving you open for an attack.
PS3 is mainly godawful because of this irredeemable piece of shit right here.
I assume he was trying to even the playing field between new players and tourneyfags by implementing something random that leaves you randomly open to attacks.
Trouble is, casuals will flail around and get blown up when they trip. Tourneyfags will actively reduce the chances of tripping by reducing dashes, playing characters who trip less because they don't rely on Smashes or dash attacks. It still works to the advantage of the person who knows the game more, while also making characters who rely on smashes and dash attacks less viable.
Not even that same anon, but that's bullshit.
Majority of moves even when L-cancelled are suspectible to shield grabs without proper spacing.
Conversely, even without L-cancelling, a lot of the moves are safe if you have good spacing. The only difference is that following up from it will be much tougher, and your pressure game won't be as good.
>Let Smash Wii U be its own game
If you keep aerial lag on moves it will end up becoming like brawl.
it's already set to not be like melee since it doesn't have the things that "made" melee; melee.
They should be punished by the other player, not by the game.
If you can't punish L cancelled aerials, then you aren't spacing correctly.
If you're talking about being + on shield, it's still never enough to get a guaranteed grab or some shit, hitting a shield shouldn't be a free punish for the guy who blocked, that's how you make a boring defensive game.
I just got home, did I miss anything from todays event?
Which would happen if you wiff an aerial without landing lag. Again tell me why landing lag is necessary for this. Tell me why the game itself should punish you for doing a move as standard as an aerial.
Having less options at your disposal does not make the game "more thoughtful." It reminds me of a Brawl match I watched where the players literally stood there doing nothing for 30 seconds and the commentators called it "mind games."
If wanted to main includes characters not in the game, then switch out the bottom two with Roy
>And they only dropped Roy, because he was boring as fuck.
Which is why they brought back his gameplay with Lucina.
Roy was one of the least liked Lords in Fire Emblem. He was brought into Smash Bros because he was one of the latest Lords at the release, and Lucina took his place for the exact same reasons (although she isn't the only Lord in that game)
Definitiely, but still punishable without the proper spacing even if it is just a little.
>this one move out of the 100 i-isnt safe
Which means it's safe to say that he was talking about a lot of the attacks, and not just the ones that are mainly used.
>It reminds me of a Brawl match I watched where the players literally stood there doing nothing for 30 seconds and the commentators called it "mind games."
The fuck was so bad about SSE? Shit was perfectly fine.
Here you go. This summed up my smash experience so far