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Let's do this.

Smash thread 2 electric boogaloo. previous here: >>254952956

There was no surprise and Bowser is the second coming of Fox.
>>
>>254976393
Here's the final of last night's tourney:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0s5WrGOlHc
>>
>>254976309
pls respond
>>
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Let's see 'em.
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>>254976636
Bowser nowadays. In older games Captain Falcon is pretty good for it I suppose.
>>
>>254976636
Little Mac was made for you.
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>mfw brawl is superior to melee in every way other than the physics
>mfw brawl had such a ridiculously larger amount of content than melee it's unbelievable
>mfw /v/ assumes everyone is a normalfag that has friends to play with
>mfw brawl is objectively the best package, the best bang for your buck, the best all-around complete game in the series despite tourneyfag protest

It's a shame because all you faggots complaining and saying you don't care about the single-player content ruined everything.

Now Sakurai can not bother putting in worthwhile single-player content because he figures no one cares, and he still won't bother to improve the multiplayer.

So you've fucked us all, faggots.
>>
>>254976710
64: Link/Link
Melee: Link/Link (Cpt Falcon more recently)
Brawl: Link/Wolf for a long time then Ganondorf
SSB4: Ganondorf/Ganondorf
>>
>>254976605
This makes me so fucking happy.
>>
>>254976879
Bowser does look cool now. Hoping that lots of characters get buffs.
>>
>>254976710
64: Yoshi / Kirby
Melee: Kirby / Pikachu
Brawl: Olimar / Pikachu
4: Pikachu / Pit
>>
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>>254976710
>>
>>254976393
>Bowser is the second coming of Fox.

>People actually believe this.


Why is /v/ so bad and easily impressionable. More than half the roster isn't available and I guarentee you Bowser still gets his shit zoned by guys like Falco etc.
>>
>>254976636

Everyone in 64
Falcon/Marth in melee
No one in brawl
Probably little mac in smash 4
>>
>>254976981
I just want a heavy character to be top tier.
>>
>>254977081
This.

Bowser is the new Ike.
>>
who got revealed? I was not able to watch
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>>254976827
>brawl is superior
>apart from this one thing that makes it fucking terrible
>>
>>254976827
>art style was garbage
>physics were terrible
>tripping
>gameplay was more casual all around
>tripping
>unnecessary nerfs(specifically Ganondorf and Jigglypuff)
>subspace was boring
>tripping
>music style wasn't consistent
>just wasn't as fun to play as Melee

Brawl was still fun, but it wasn't nearly as good as Melee.
>>
>>254976710
Captain Falcon
Captain Falcon
ROB
Captain Falcon
>>
>>254977081
Can't wait for Bowser to be able to knock out Fox and Falco at 60% with tilts alone.
>>
there was surprise though...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k3XT2mBvxE
>>
>>254977081
I wasn't being serious. Take a chill pill bro, relax, sit down, play some aminal xing.
>>
>>254977471
Falco deconfirmed.
>>
>>254976827
>mfw brawl is superior in everything but the very core of the gameplay
>>
>>254977193
Nothing and nobody. Perhaps today or tomorrow.
>>
>>254977475
I know you weren't serious, but people in earlier threads and places like Smashboards were unironically saying Bowser is OP, which is fucking hilarious.
>>
How many hours till the wild ride continues? (I'm not american so I dunno what time it is there.)
>>
>>254976710
Mario/Mario
Mario/Kirby and Mario
Mario and Snake/Snake
Mario and hopefully Snake/ I don't fucking know yet.
>>
If Bowser's that good, I can't wait to play as Ridley.
>>
>>254977637
OK so I'm going to throw a controversial opinion into the mix here.

Why do people want combos? Sure it's nice to combo people and I'll agree that smash doesn't have dial-a-combos like traditional fighters so they take a bit more skill. But when you're getting comboed it's boring, you're just waiting around until you get your turn to do stuff again. Granted you have to try to DI in those situations but it isn't very stimulating.
>>
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>Bowser is going to go back to shit tier when his only sin was to decimate complete retards
>>
Smash is both a party game and a fighting game. Party game is not a genre. In the same way, Mario Kart is a racing game and Guitar Hero is a rhythm/music game, and they're both party games too.
>>
This has got me excited for Ike. He's gotta be good this time, right?
>>
Why does every attack and grab in Smash 4 send you flying off really far even at 0%? Is this gonna be the new gimmick? Fuck.
>>
>>254977680
Hour and a half I think.

For those who missed yesterday, here's the whole thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idw0P5x5b14
>>
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>He actually thought somebody was going to be revealed!
>>
>>254977873
Because muh genre staples
>>
>>254977964
Sakurai found a way to remove chaingrabbing.
>>
>>254977979
I hope it's better than yesterday's..
>>
>>254977964
Depends on character and throw. Luigi's down throw easily combos into aerials.
>>
>>254977959

No. He'll probably be the same, maybe he'll get his jabs nerfed. Welcome to the nerf zone, along with Marth. I main Falcon and he's probably gonna be shit again, so you're not alone buddy.
>>
>>254977964
I like this actually. Also just down throw if you want them close.
>>
>>254977873
Combos are fun. And in smash it's less boring to be comboed because you're DI'ing and looking for tech opportunities all the time.

But like you mentioned, this is just opinions. Combos aren't objectively a good thing, just something that most people find fun.
>>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbIN5XZVU10
>yfw Krobo predicted Bowser domination
>>
>>254978137

The last thing he needs is nerfs. He already wasn't great, but then again Zelda's been shit forever so maybe I'm getting my hopes up too high.
>>
>>254977873
Because combos are the reward for playing better than your opponent.
>>
>>254978314
>Zelda's only buff is her Up B being able to kill shit if she reappears close to someone
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>>254976605
Looks fun but so slow
>>
>>254977873


>Why do people want combos

Because combos are almost objectively hype as shit, especiallly in a game where you have to make them up on the fly like Smash because of DI. Also because it reward getting a hit and being offensive, an art that Smash has lost ever since Brawl.

It shouldn't be fun for the one getting combo'd because they fucked up and put themselves in a position to get combo'd. Every single moment of a PvP game is not going to be fun for both sides, trying to balance around that is stupid and impossible.

Without combos the game literally devolves into a pokefest and there's very little incentive to go on the offensive, which leads to a lot of camping and stalling (Which almost NO ONE finds fun) and is why Brawl is so universally hated because that ACTUALLY HAPPENED
>>
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>>254976393
Why is this retarded "electric boogaloo" trend a thing?

Do 99% of people even know what it means? Furthermore, is the stupid TF2 update in any way related to making threads?

Why are people so fucking stupid?
>>
Why was momentum carrying into jumps taken out of Brawl? That has been part of video game physics fundamentals for literal decades and was included in both 64 and Melee. The dev team chose to take it out, but to what benefit? The loss of this mechanic was one of many things that contributed to the lack of offensive/approach options in Brawl, as well as something that made the gameplay unnecessarily slow.
>>
>>254978359
Hitting your opponent is the reward.
>>
>>254976710

64: Falcon/Falcon
Melee: Falcon/Jigglypuff
Brawl: Pokemon Trainer/Diddy Kong
4: Mega Man/Mega Man
>>
>>254978520
It also nerfed the shit out of C. Falcon.
>>
>>254978480
just blame Breakin' 2
>>
>>254978359
Surely just getting the hit is that reward. Combos just make the reward bigger.
I think that the reduced reliance on combos and greater focus on aerial play in the new game is a good thing really. The idea is to get them off the stage quite early and then follow up with off-stage play, especially now that the ledgehog mechanics have changed. If you're good off stage as well as on stage then you're going to kill faster than people who just try to kill with what short combos are available from on the stage.
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>Sakurai: My cat is in charge of game balance this time.
>Sakurai: I hope you guys like the changes.
>Sakurai: (laughs)
>>
>>254978480
>Electric Boogaloo a TF2 thing
>>
>>254977959
Ike was fucking great in Brawl, what are you talking about?
>>
>>254976710
Link / Donkeykong
Link / Kid Link? (Didn't get the chance to play melee much)

Link + Snake / Link, Snake, Ike, Wario, Weegee, Gaymanwatch, Pit, Wolf

And for Kerfuffle:

Link / Lil' Mac, Rosalina, Pit
>>
>>254978480

>trend

motherfucker people have been doing it for 30 years
>>
>>254978685
>I think that the reduced reliance on combos and greater focus on aerial play in the new game is a good thing really.
This is the exact same thing as Brawl and that game's competitive community is dead.
>>
>>254978480
Just google it. Seriously, it's been a thing since forever.
>>
>>254976710
64: Link / Pikachu
Melee: Pikachu / Marth, Ganondorf
Brawl: Marth, Ganondorf / Ganondorf, Snake, ZSS, Wario
4: ZSS, Ganondorf, Wario, Little Mac / ?

At this rate I'll have 8 mains in Smash 4.
>>
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>>254976710
SSB64 : Link / Link
Melee : Link / Captain Falcon
Brawl : Captain Falcon / Game & Watch
SSB4 : ???
>>
>>254978480
>TF2 update
Never call people stupid unless you're absolutely sure that you aren't yourself
>>
>>254977873
Because of the nature of how combos work in this game, a lot of them are more of an earned reward than a guaranteed reward.

The combos are usually short as well so the time spent getting comboed is not nearly as long as other traditional fighters. The action is consistent for the most part and don't break the pace of the game.
>>
>>254978917
I think he's referring to the fact that after the TH2 update the term started skyrocketing in usage here.
>>
>>254976852
>>254977020
>>254977360
>>254977802
>>254978564
>>254978763
>>254978878
>>254978889
Do none of you have fucking Paint?
>>
>lttp/oot better than skyward sword
acceptable
>ttyd better than sticker star
acceptable
>sm64/sunshine better than 3D land
acceptable
>super metroid/prime better than other m
acceptable
>sf64 better than sf command
acceptable

>melee/64 better than brawl
You're stuck in the past! Fucking tourneyfags!

This is the only series for which /v/ defends casualisation and the removal of good gameplay mechanics. Even Mario Kart & Party have better discussion about gameplay than Smash.
>>
>>254977896
>m-muh reason
>>
>>254978826

That's because of Brawl's reliance on defensive play, though, not wither of the things mentioned

Not to mention the game had a good run; people played it competitively for almost five years before it really died.
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>>254979053
I couldn't be bothered. It's not like anyone ever does anything with those pictures.
>>
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R8 the characters I use
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>>254978725

He's okay, but most of his moves take 50 billion years to come out. His jab is his life, his neutral air is his love and his back air is his friend. Everything else ranges from kinda good to pretty awful.
>>
>>254979053
Browsing on my Wii U.
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>>254979026
I've seen it been used long before then
He's an idiot
>>
>>254979053
Nigga I can't be fucked with that shit. Nobody even cares who I'm gonna main.
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Really looking forward to this game
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>>254979153
No.
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>>254978685
>>254978561
>Surely just getting the hit is that reward. Combos just make the reward bigger.
This. A heavy combo-reliant game becomes a game of "hit first, then repeat the sequence"
It's "hype" at first but gets old fast.
>>
>>254978561
Which is a pretty insignificant reward alone in Smash.

So a character like Bowser gets zoned the fuck out by say Link, taking damage from his cornocopia of projectiles and the like, and when he finally gets in he gets one measly hit and then the situation is reset? Whereas Bowser took tens of percent in just approaching him, Link gets off nearly scot free because Bowser can't follow up because the game's mechanics are shit. This is why Combos should exist so that the reward matches the work you have to put in to be offensive.

>>254978685
See the above, also you're frigging horribly wrong because the aerial play is even worse thanks to just how much landing lag on aerials there is across the board
>>
>>254979071
None of those are multiplayer games.
>>
>>254979026
I haven't noticed that at all. Electric Boogaloo has been a think forever, anon.
>>
>>254979071
>muh victim complex! the post
fuck off with your forced meme
>>
>>254979206
No, you don't understand. Stop trying to skew the words to fit your own desired conclusion.

The term has existed for a while. Nobody is denying that. After valve's stupid update, it started being used here on /v/ for threads at least 10~20+ times more often than it used to be
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>Falcon will never be as good as he was in Melee because MUH NURFS

I will make it my personal mission to rape every newcomer and knee everyone. Sakurai wants to take away Falcon's mobility and power? I'm taking away the fun from his beloved casuals. NOT EVEN ITEMS WILL STOP ME NIGGER.
>>
Didn't get a chance to post this in the previous thread. It's shit.

>>254976257
>Who are you and what are you doing in my house, also have you not bathe in the last year?
>I'm here to show the light and the dirt gives better control. Where is your nearest CRT?
>What
>Stop playing brawl and play the only true Smash game, Brawl
>I don't play video games if that whats your asking
>Where is your nearest gamecube and/or backwards compatible Wii
>Isn't that like 15 years old or something, why I still own that?
>Luckily I brought my own Gamecube and CRT, now chose a character. Also no items as I don't want you to have unfair advantage at some point
>I don't know any of these people, I guess I'll just that pink ball as it has a normal name
>HAHA, CHOOSING AN G TIER CHARACTER, WHAT A FUCKING FAGGOT
>Okay
>Pick a stage and by pick a stage your only choices are FoD, Pokémon Stadium and Yoshi's Island as thats only things we have unlocked
>But there is like 20 things here
>Those aren't balanced enough, you might gain an unfair advantage at some point
>But I never played this before
>>
>>254979442
I agree with this. It wasn't til after that that all these children started making "electric boogaloo" threads

Before that (on /v/) I never saw any of them.
>>
>>254979071
>people want different things from different games of different genres
I don't understand it either.
>>
>>254979169
so he fights for his back air?
>>
>>254979153
>ganon and puff
You're alright.
>>
>>254977081

>What is powershielding
>>
>>254979132
More like 1 and a half before the mass exodus back to Melee and P:M's birth. Brawl at tournaments now is just a game to potmonster, not a game to take seriously as a main stage game.

>>254978725
Confirmed FFA hero or plays against total shitters. Ike was garbage and overly relied on his jab to do anything.
>>
>>254979324
That's why people find melee to be really interesting.
Most of the time the combos are 2 or 3 hits, nothing too long.

The "combos" that most people like are the people following up from what they did earlier; along with the occasional long combo
>>
>>254979325
Bowser does more damage per hit. Checkmate.
>>
>>254979169
Fair enough. I still like him as a whole though. Ike was my #1 nigga and he will continue to be in the new smash.
>>
>>254979665

It's his only fast kill move, I'd fight for it too.
>>
>>254979324
So basically combos can create more hype now because they're a lot rarer than they were before.
>>
>>254979324
In a traditional fighter, maybe. But in Smash it works a whole lot better because of how freeform the combo system can be. Not to mention Smash combos are a fraction of the length of SF or god forbid anime combos
>>
>>254979325
By aerial play I mean off stage play. Aerial play which is actually in the air, air to air rather than air to ground.
>>
>>254979718
>>254979971
Yes, I wasn't talking about melee necessarily, although there are a few instances where breaking out is impossible depending on your character and position.
>>
>>254978692
That is one cute cate
>>
>>254979727

Yeah, I liked playing him too. He's surprisingly better than you'd expect, but that's partially because even though his moves take forever to come out, they also last forever so they punish dodges pretty well. I don't like playing him as much in PM though, his jab feels like shit now.
>>
>>254979324
Combos rack up damage faster which increases the pace of the game and your ability to punish the opponent's mistakes. Compare to Brawl which was basically just hit and run so the matches took forever.
>>
>Main Pit

>Casuals all though Pit was overpowered in Brawl

>Sakuri nerfs the fuck out of him because of it

>Pit was an easy D tier in competitively play in Brawl

Life is suffering. It's alreadyclear that his recovery and arrow have been nerfed, I'm terrified to see what everything else is like
>>
D-Do you think someone will be revealed today?
>>
>>254976710
Kirby | Kirby
Kirby | Kirby
Kirby | Kirby
Kirby | Kirby
>>
>>254979442
>>254979575
OP here. Didn't know that TF2 had used it for an update. I assure you that it's a term I've been using for years.
>>
>>254979325

Bowser should have not been a scrub and learned to power shield. He should also get some stage control once he gets up there.
>>
>>254979719
Bowser does 30-40% per hit? News to me.


Not to mention this game you're describing sounds pretty lame to me, watching one guy get lamed out then finally get in for a single hit then game lamed out for another however many minutes. Not fun to watch and probably not too fun to play outside of the winning party
>>
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>>254980125
Nah. Smash stuff is over.
>>
>>254980097
Why is having longer matches bad?
>>
>>254980097
So just increase the damage. That would waste less time than combos.
>>
>>254980108
>Casuals all though Pit was overpowered in Brawl
Holy shit I remember when I first witnessed this in person, playing with some friends

They'd just throw out side-Bs at each other, and the other guy would just run right into it and then bitch about it being overpowered

I was so fucking baffled, and nobody seemed to notice that I never got hit by it
>>
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>>254978692
That's kawaii.
Sakurai's cat as an assist trophy when? I know he showed up in Pokemon Stadium or something.
>>
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>>254976710
So many lazy faggots ITT jesus christ.
>>
>>254980361
Because the anemic pace of the game is boring as fuck, half the time it's just zoning and hoping the other person will trip or make a mistake.
>>
>>254979709

Except no, stream monster.

I know it had five years of life because I played it for four. Project M didn't even have a huge showig until about a year ago, after Brawl had largely died off.
>>
>>254976710

Pikachu | Pikachu
Zelda | Zelda
Zelda | Zelda
Palutena | Zelda
>>
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>>254979517
filename related.
>>
>>254976710
Never played 64, Melee or Brawl, but plan to main Robin in 4.
>>
>>254979564

but... that's how every multiplayer game is

forever
>>
>>254980532
You could say literally the same thing about high level Melee.
>>
>>254980567
Is Kirby really that shit? All I remember about using him is spamming that retarded down+b rock move.
>>
>>254976710
64: Kirby/Kirby
Melee: Jigglypuff/Marth
Brawl: Marth/Lucas
SSB4: Lucina/???
>>
>>254980582

More like the player who DOES know how to play would have an unfair advantage

If i want to make a scrub cry in Brawl o take him to a stage with walkoffs and play DDD.
>>
>>254980534
I consider Brawl to have been dead after the whole ban MK fiasco in 2010, so yeah I say Brawl really "lived" for about 2ish years. After that Melee started to make it' resurgence and eclisped Brawl quickly
>>
>>254980532
Couldn't you say the same about melee except with wave dashing?
>>
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>>254980175
Why do you do that? What do you gain? It adds nothing of value to your thread. It's not funny. It's not witty. It doesn't bring people into the thread. It's like you're just trying to say something stupid like "us nerds, huh? XD"

It's not different than shoving triforces all over your backpack so that everyone knows you're a queer.

Just saiyan.
>>
I wasn't here yesterday. Is this the same build and roster from E3?
>>
>>254980108
I think he might be better. He lost the side B and his recovery got nerfed.

He might of got stronger in his other stuff though. His forward air attack hits a lot further now.
>>
An 4 stock game of Melee is usually over within 3 or 4 minutes, as opposed to brawl where running out the clock is the norm. Brawl is basically if the Young Link/Jigglypuff matchup in melee comprised the entire metagame
>>
>>254980728

Kirby was A tier in Brawl, ass tier in melee and like S tier in 64
>>
>>254980728

In Melee, yeah. I hear you can even break out of his throws during the actual throwing animation.
>>
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>>254980728
he WAS. Now he's SS Tier and wrecking all your shits.

Smash 4 is the reckoning of the lower brackets, with the top being blown the fuck down.
>>
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>>254976710
>>
>>254980706

>Even Melee's campiest matches like YL vs Jiggs don't run out the timer

>No one finds a Brawl match timing out even remotely alien at all, and depending on the character is the standard even.

You sure are fuckin stupid m8.
>>
>>254980801

Uh, MK wasn't banned until early 2012 though
>>
>>254980872
Yes.
>>
>>254981061
That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said, though.
>>
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>>254976710
>>
>>254980982
What do those numbers mean?
>>
>>254980884

We'll see. I'm worried based on playing him at Best Buy. His camping seems weak now and he has fewer options when above or on the ledge with the loss of WoI
>>
>>254976605
>dat shield break
>that sick launch + down B combo

Fucking noice.
>>
>>254980982
>Zelda is number 6
>Captain Falcon and Jigglypuff are that low
Man things have changed
>>
>>254980862
Sorry for trying to make people smile a bit or something. Next time I'll just be boring.
>>
>>254980817
no, in melee it's beneficial to attack the other character and force him into a defensive situation, then punish him while he's doing it
>>
>>254976710
64: Yoshi/Fox
Melee: Donkey Kong/Fox
Brawl: Toon Link/Donkey Kong
S4: Donkey Kong/ Villager

All about that Donk.
>>
>>254981357
It's almost as though tiers don't exist.
>>
>>254981231
Tier list rankings. Basically how likely a character is to win against others in a 1v1 setting.
>>
>>254981201
You were defending Brawl's anemic slow pace by saying that the same could be said for Melee.

We literally had a match in Melee Top 8 that lasted a minute (Axe's 4 stock of SW) and matches that didn't involve Hungrybox's lame ass Jiggs didn't tend to last much longer than that. Even the ones that did have HBox in it and the dreaded YL vs Jiggs matchups didn't even take up all 8 minutes

Meanwhile Brawl matches frequently go to time and consist of throwing out retreating hitboxes hoping your opponent is stupid and tries to approach.
>>
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>>254976710
>>
>>254981284
That launch and down b combo isn't really a combo, it's just hitting with both hitboxes on the down-b.
>>
>>254981532
Please tell me how Melee's Kirby is just as viable as Fox and why every single major Melee tournament has been won by one of 6 characters, all of whom are top tier.
>>
>>254981532

You're joking, right?

Do you think your shitty car could beat an F1 racer?
>>
>>254978456
At least it's agressive and offesnive, which matters more. And it's still faster than Brawl, at least definitely on the wiiu version
>>
>>254981616
No, I asked why are long matches inherently bad, then you (or whoever that was) replied with something that can be applied to melee.
>>254981382
High level melee does have a lot of zoning, hoping, and waiting for the other player to make a mistake. You can not be so blind as to not notice this.
>>
>>254980982
>that old as fuck image
>C. Falcon and Jiggly that low

Man, times sure have changed.
>>
>>254981382
Basically chase down the opponent? I can do that in both games.
>>
>>254981860
But unlike Brawl you can actually get more than a single hit out of it and due to the faster pace of the game and heavier punishes the matches are much shorter
>>
>>254981653
>>254981758
People just need to try harder as Kirby. Maybe they need to play campier or something. I'm sure if people started to adopt him then he could rise up the tiers. As the years have gone on more and more characters have become viable with characters like Jigglypuff, Falcon and Peach reaching "high tiers" because people worked out how to play them. Amsa's yoshi is another good example of how someone can work out how to play a character and make them viable.
The tiers are just a snapshot of the metagame at the time they are composed. Within days the characters who are viable could completely change because someone works out how to git gud with Kirby. Tiers aren't as rigid as they're made out to be, they're actually super fluid, as witnessed by the many iterations of the tier list, and therefore they don't really exist.
>>
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>>254981914
Yeah, I should have done this first.
>>
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>>254976710
>>
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>>254976710
>>
>>254978478
>objectively
>art
>literally devolves
>there's very little incentive to attack your opponent
>camping and stalling
>universally hated

If you really think this, you weren't playing Smash right to begin with.

>>254978207
>tech opportunities
>most people

Why do people like you have to try to make everything Big Bang Theory-tier
>>
>>254982037
You can, but in Brawl you're inherently put at a grave disadvantage for doing so because of how biased the game's mechanics are towards defensive campy play.

That isn't the case in Melee for the most part.

>>254981860
I'd be wrong if I said it doesn't. However you can also effectively rushdown your opponent with characters like the Spacies, Falcon, hell even Jiggs as Mango's proven in the past, and not be putting yourself at a massive disadvantage for attacking like you are in Brawl.
>>
>>254977873
>>254979324
Only on /v/ would someone defend lack of combos. Jesus
>>
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>>254976605
I like how a tournament final looks "natural", like a legit match in this game, and not outlandish like tournament finals of the older games with all their BS. Now I'm convinced this will be the best Smash yet.
>>
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>>254976710
>>
>>254982172
here's a few facts
kirby has a pretty shit recovery despite his multiple jumps
kirby can't combo to rack up percent
kirby has very few good kill moves (he has uair which is slow and hard to land, he has bair which isn't particularly strong and the only other thing left is his fsmash, good luck landing that when you need it )
kirby is light and so he is extremely susceptible to being killed very quickly
if he gets hit by falco's down b on the top of yoshi's story he dies, now that's just sad
it's not like kirby has secret potential, what can kirby do that is comparable to yoshi's egg stall, or his parry or his combo game?
>>
>>254982412
>you weren't playing Smash right to begin with.

THIS is the exact example of casual elitism tourneyfags are talking about.
>>
>>254982465
I don't get you. I don't see how having combos or not having them makes the game worse or better. I enjoy both playstyles.
>>
>>254982772
fag
>>
>>254982772
i like you
>>
>>254982172
Kirby is a broken ass character, his throws can be broken out of easily, he's lightweight, his range is ass, his only KO moves are slow, shitty attack power, etc. After 13 years of Melee being out nobody has found even a single exploit that would make him better. People knew Yoshi had access to techniques like parrying and double jump super armor but aMSa was one of the first to actually use them consistently and even then he's pretty limited by his character. Once people started finding out his gimmicks people were able to adapt and beat him, just look at MLG where he lost almost all his best of 5 sets. Like it or not, some characters are objectively worse than others and need to overcome a lot more to be even remotely viable and characters like Fox, Falco, Sheik, and Marth have been at or near the top of the tier list since the game came out.
>>
>>254982781
>it's not like kirby has secret potential, what can kirby do that is comparable to yoshi's egg stall, or his parry or his combo game?
I'm glad you asked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv_jkRK_6Ic

The tier list stagnates progress for tourney play. Characters are perceived as unviable and therefore aren't played as and this stops people from learning new skills with them that might manage to make them viable.
I'll agree that Kirby seems to be a piece of shit, but I bet you could make something of him if you tried and experimented.
>>
>>254982927
Combos are fun. Hit and run and overly defensive play is not as fun. Taking out combos is dumb. Even fucking casuals like multiple hits and combos.
>>
>>254982756
It's looks overly simplistic if you ask me
>>
>>254982412
People really don't know how to tech? I remember teching off all the walls at the bottom of temple as a casual preteen who mained Kirby and didn't know about wavedashing or L-cancels.
>>
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So since we didn't get one, when do you guys think they will actually reveal the next newcomer?

I'm assuming mid-August
>>
>>254983185
I bet you're one of those people who perceive the removal of edgehogging as a bad thing.
>>
>>254982412
Even the commentators last night were saying how there's no wrong way to play smash? Why do you have to be so hostile about it? Is just game
>>
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Been watching some matches for a while. Why does no one use Rodalina's down b?
>>
>>254982172

Do you think your shotty car could beat an F1 racer?
>>
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>>254981361
Thank you.
>>
>>254983289
And you seem like the type of person that thinks using the c stick is cheap.
>>
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When's the next Nintendo direct? Or rather, when's the next possible time that Nintendo could announce a release date for Smash Wii U?
>>
Overall Smash 4 doesn't have as much tech skill as Melee, I don't think anyone was expecting otherwise

But on the other hand, 4's cast has lots of off the wall and in depth characters. I think that alone will make 4 develop a decent meta game
>>
>>254982465

No fuck you

Go back to Marvel
>>
>>254983289
>Implying Edgehogging is completely removed.

If you're in freefall you still can't take the ledge from somebody on it, so guys like C.Falcon are still boned.

Although real talk the new ledge mechanics sound hella interesting.
>>
>>254983468
We believe there's one coming in August.
>>
>>254983228
Is nintendo completely done with SDCC?
>>
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>>254979259
based amsa
>>
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>>254983512
I like playing Marvel too. Unfortunately my mains in both Smash and Marvel happen to be shit.
>>
>>254983675
>>254983289
It promotes off stage aggression such as spikes, meteors and gimps. How is that possibly a bad thing?

>>254983731
Stream restarting in a few hours. Expect Bayonetta, Hyrule Warriors and some surprises.
>>
Was this the only Smash related day at SDCC?
>>
>>254983731

>thinking they'll just announce it long after the tourney is over

You were silly to expect one at the tourney in the first place. Sakurai's not at SDCC, and didn't make any post about a newcomer on miiverse. The "surprises" have already been shown. Its silly to expect a reveal at Comic Con anyways, Japan always comes first.
>>
>>254983468
WHAT THE FUCK
>>
>>254983858
What about characters like Little Mac who have no spikes, decent aerial moves, or recovery, how is he supposed to edgeguard?
>>
>>254983858
But he just said they sound good. Do you even read the posts you quote?
>>
>>254983170
wow a frame perfect trick where it lets you get a grab from platform to a specific area in centre stage so that you can get 7% damage off of down throw because everyone knows that kirby's back throw and forward throw are so shit you can mash out before you even take damage
>>
I'll be ready to rekt all of you online with Link
>>
>>254984080
He has moves nonetheless. Short hop to ohkopunch with a DJ cancel on its recovery frames to get back?
>>
>>254983943
I think so.
Today is several other games with more of the treehouse guys.
>>
>>254984080
Little Mac has a meteor although I agree his aerial game is bad.

From the looks of the final last night they may have reduced the autosweetspot for ledgegrabs. Larry was edgehogging from onstage with down-forward-tilts so I guess that's an option.
>>
>>254984080
Maybe not every character is supposed to be good or able to capitalize with every mechanic?
>>
Why must all these threads devolve into Melee vs Everything?

It's not gonna be Melee 2, guys. Some people like it that way. Bitching about it here will do nothing.

>b-but we want an improvement from Melee!

Other than that standalone statement, I've yet to see anything to even suggest that.
>>
>>254976710
>>
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>>254976710

I do wonder who I'll really end up with. Bowser's drop-kicking action seems great so far
>>
>>254983503
Also the custom movesets will add another layer, just like team setups in mahvel or picking your ultra.
>>
>>254984613
>It's not gonna be Melee 2, guys
But it is going to be Brawl 2.0.
>>
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>>254977023
>>
>>254984610
If he has no aerial game or edgeguarding ability he's going to be a shit character.
>>
>>254984080
Stand your ground nigga, don't let your self off the field. Don't let your opponents smack you around.

HOLD YOUR GROUND.
That and don't quit like a bitch when getting knocked off the field because his recovery isn't as good as the rest. If you played Falco and Ike, you can his shit recovery. Just Side-B ASAP after your two jumps
>>
>>254984610
Yeah, which will make some characters shit.
Since smash is about making your opponents fall offstage and not about doing damage for a KO, characters who can't guard the ledge from recoveries are fucked because the way the majority of kills are gotten in smash is denied to them.
>>
>>254984752
>Brawl 2.0

That's not necessarily a bad thing. My only issues with Brawl are the piss-poor roster balance and tripping. If the new Smash ends up with a more balanced roster than Brawl, I'll be satisfied.
>>
>>254984752
It is going to be brawl 2.0
But that's not going to be a bad thing.

It's going to be what brawl should of been, hence the 2.0
>>
>>254984613
Here's how it generally goes.

>Thread starts

>tourneyfags bitch and moan "it's so sloooooooow brawl 2.0 waaaaah"

>somebody says something along the lines of "lol tourneyfag tears"

>tourneyfags explode, screaming shit like elitism even more than tumblr tends to do
>>
>>254984975
>I'm OK with it being Brawl 2.0
>but fuck people who want it to be like Melee
>>
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>>254976710
>>
>>254984975
>brawl 2.0
>not necessarily a bad thing
This is why casuals should be banned from these threads. The poor little things have no idea what they're talking about.
>>
>>254985118
>being an autistic tourneyfag
>>
>>254985118
Because it isn't going to be like Melee. It just isn't. It already looks like an improved Brawl. That's what it WILL be.

Yet Meleefags have been bitching over a dozen threads.
>>
>>254985118
Yes, fuck people who want it to be like Melee.
>>
>>254984883
>don't get hit
What useless advice.
>>
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TIER LIST IS BULLSHIT

IT'S ALL ABOUT INDIVIDUAL SKILL
>>
>>254985086
And then they shit like this
>>254985147
And wonder why everyone says they're the cancer of these threads.
>>
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>>254976710
>>
>if you prefer the gameplay and physics of Melee it's because of competitive and tournyfag reasons.

Ya'll niggas need to stop this.
>>
>>254976710
64 : Expected Link, played Pikachu and Mario
Melee : Expected Pikachu, played Roy, Fox and Pikachu
Brawl : Expected Marth, played Marth, Fox and ROB
SSB4 : Expects Lucina, Little Mac and Greninja.

Yeah, too lazy to post a pic of that
>>
>>254985118
this guy gets it
>>
It's pretty convincing knowing a guy who dropped into the loser's bracket his first round can get his head in the zone and manage to fucking dominate his way to the top, and he wasn't using any cheap tactics any of the 'pros' at the Smash Event did like hiding and staying out if it all. Bowser MIGHT be nerfed because of this, because he really did have a shit ton of strong moves. I think the only reason the dropkick got so many kos though is because of the second pause between the charge release and the actual kick. It's easy to mispredict when it will hit so if you come up from a ledge you could wind up landing right in it.
>>
>>254985229
And if it was like Melee, Brawlfags would be b-
Wait no, nobody actually likes Brawl because it's objectively a worse game. It's just the hip smash thread meme right now.
>>
>>254985086
>Implying it's not baiting shitposters and casual elitists going "LELELELE TOURNEYFAGS ARE GONNA HATE XXX" leaving people actually knowledgeable about competitive Smash to futilly debunk whatever garbage is being spewed only to get "BUT IT"S A PARTY GAME STAY MAD TOURNEYFAGS" in response.

I honestly don't know why they even try, at least /vg/'s Smash thread discusses the gameplay. /v/ is just filled with retards all around and don't even get me started on ROSTERFAGS
>>
>>254985412
That's not how tier lists work. Tier lists are the personification of the meta game.
>>
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>>254976710
Recently i've learned how much Diddy's down B is godly
>>
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>>254985421
I'll echo the sentiment:
Only on /v/ do you have people defending casualization and the deliberate removal of depth from games

You are the cancer
>>
>>254985519
>if you prefer the gameplay and physics of Brawl it's because of casual and being a retard reasons.

Pot, meet kettle.
>>
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>>254985412
Why is this so hard for people to wrap their minds around?

Two people of approximately equal skill play as the same tier character. It now comes down to the individual.

One player of greater skill plays as a shit character while the other plays something decent. It comes down to the individuals.

Two players of approximately equal skill face off. One is playing as a shit character and the other something decent. Shit character loses outside of luck.

Jesus fuck and I've been arguing against the tourneyfags all thread. This is just common sense.
>>
/r/ video of Bill Trinnin blowing that one tourneyfag toph the fuck out
>>
>>254984613
It doesn't have to be melee. The issue is that brawl grossly favored defensive play to the point where very few characters could make a proper approach. This surfaces at even the most casual of play.

Then there is the lack of momentum and inertia making characters like captain falcon feel much worse.

Sakurai even commented on the former as a large reason for brawl online not being fun. The solution to that is obvious - more movement options (sidejumps would be cool) and faster recovery on moves on hit and block. But he hasn't really commented on that which is a bit concerning.

It's better to have a large swimming pool with a slope to multiple depths than one small swimming pool at shallow depth.

That all said, smash 4 looks really fun but it might have a short life like brawl if it's got less depth. Sakurai's comments on online/netcode are worrying.
>>
>>254976710
Well?
>>
>>254985768
>This new game has less glitches and dick move tactics? YOU ARE REMOVE MY DEPTH!

This is what you sound like.
>>
>>254985768
>only on /v/
Have you fucking been anywhere besides /v/ for the past 6 years?
>>
>>254985768
Are you suggesting that Melee is a better game with more depth because of a bug?
>>
>>254985304
Nigga do you even Isai?
>>
>>254984975
That piss poor balance is the fucking outcome of making the game slower. ATTACKING IS NEVER SAFE!
Therefore balancing becomes next to impossible because the scenarios in which a characters' advantages show are far more complex to discover and replicate
>>
>>254985926
>less glitches
What the fuck are you talking about?
>more tech
Besides DACUS and glide tossing what do you mean?
>>
>>254976710
64: C.Fal/C.Fal
Melee: C.Fal/Fox
Brawl: Lucario/Lucario
P:M: Mewtwo/Mewtwo
4: Undecided.
>>
>>254985830
He was pretty good at Smash but holy shit, him and that asian girl sucked complete donkey dick at Super Mario. Goddamn, they couldn't even get to 1-4
>>
>>254985768
>only on /v/

holy fuck are smash tourneyfags retarded?
>>
>>254985926
Brawl has way more exploits than Melee, that doesn't make it good
>>
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So how badly was Sakurai blown the fuck out by a tourneyfag at some point to be so pro-casual to deliberately make the game not possible to be played competitively?
It's really some out of this world assmad. What and who do you think caused it?
>>
>>254976710
Mario / Samus
Bowser / Pikachu and Young Link
PKMN Trainer / Lucas and Toon Link
Little Mac / Samus or Toon link again
>>
>>254985926
L canceling wasn't a glitch.
>>
>>254985768

>>>/smashboards/

Most people don't care for your tourneyfaggotry. Smash is made for 4 player action. Brawl is fine in this regard
>>
>>254986027
>because of a bug
What bug? L-cancelling was intended, as was conservation of momentum when airdodging.

Yes, wavedashing is an intended part of the game. Or at least wavelanding.
>>
>>254985785
Doing either is bad. I hate both so its not really Pot calling the kettle black. It's more like both sides are acting like niggers.
>>
>>254979671
>ganon
I'm still waiting.
>>
>>254986184
>are smash tourneyfags retarded?

ADHD. That's why they're looking for depth in what's supposed to be a simple game.
>>
>>254976710
His time has come. I'll take another look at Ice Climbers too if they can still Desync. If they're shit then I'd just play Rosalina.
>>
>>254985926
>L-Cancelling,enabling faster gameplay and was in the friggin game guide for N64 smash
>A Glitch

>Momemtum carrying into your jumps, allowing more movement options thus allowing more oppurtunites for offensive gameplay
>A Dick move tactic

Nah he's right, you truly are the cancer of these threads
>>
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>>254976710
>>
>>254986275
Smash is made to be tailored to how you want to play. From the very start.
>>
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>>254985728
>couldn't even type a full line of text without shouting elitism

I'm sorry, am I triggering you?

The smash patriarchy keeping you down?
>>
>>254986248
>implicating
>>
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Honestly, what's the trouble for Sakurai to implement L-canceling back into the game? It pleases the competitive fan base and doesn't bother the casual fan base. Why would he just refuse to bring it back?
>>
>>254986275
>Smash is made for 4 player action.

This. I don't even pop out Smash unless I have 3 other people around. Gotta hope this new one will have stable lag-free online.
>>
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>>254976710
I didn't play Brawl much.
>>
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>>254986573
>4chan gave me PTSD

I can't wrap my head around this.
>>
>>254976827
>>mfw brawl is superior to melee in every way other than the physics
>and the garbage singleplayer
>and the non-existent balance
>and the random tripping
>and the fucking molasses speed of the gameplay
>wait what was good about it again
>>
>>254986248
It all goes back to August 11, 2013
"When Masahiro Sakurai was asked if the next Super Smash Bros was going to be competitive, he said no. We asked why and he replied with." "I do not think people actually want to play Super Smash Bros competitively. If people do want to play Super Smash Bros competitively, they have Super Smash Bros Melee for that."
>>
>>254986301
L canceling wouldn't be necessary if moves recovered faster naturally. It's an executional aspect that I wouldn't mind seeing gone - casuals being able to play faster is good for everyone.

The distinction with wavedashing is that they probably never intended for it to be used the way it is.

Sadly Sakurai didn't take this opportunity to introduce new mechanics from something people were using. Imagine if every character had dedicated combat and escape slides.
>>
>>254986623
There is no competitive fanbase for Smash, it's a casual game. What you perceive as a competitive fanbase is just a fraction that pretends this game is more than it is.
>>
>>254985728
>leaving people actually knowledgeable about competitive Smash to futilly debunk whatever garbage is being spewed
Look at this mad tourneygger.
>>
>>254986742
Cyber bullying, son. Some people just can't handle it.
>>
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>>254976710
>>
>>254986573
How is that even remotely related....


Elitism is Elitism, claiming your way you play the game is better than another and is how the game should be balanced is nonsense
>>
>>254978041
oh damnit, the purple one is supposed to be ridley. I just noticed that
>>
>>254986623
It's kind of back in the form of reduced landing lag on short hop aerials. full hop aerials still have full-time landing lag, though. It's not the same, but I'll take it.
>>
>>254986248
He originally mentioned that when he went to arcades he noticed the smoke laden fighting game areas being cliquish and bullying other patrons and that he didn't want that kind of environment for his game. Back before brawl.
>>
>>254986742
Didn't you hear, we're shipping all of tumble to Nam
>>
>>254986765
fucking samurai
this is like how miyamoto said he doesn't know what to do with f-zero
nigga just update it and give me online or something
>>
>>254986784
L cancelling should, indeed, be replaced with just less landing lag after an aerial.
>>
>>254986765
[citation fucking needed]

>>254986826
>Literally proving my point

I don't even play Comp Smash anymore I play ASSFAGGOTS
>>
>>254986817
There are people who play the video game 'Super Smash Bros' in competitions. They fight to find a single winner. It's competitive. You just don't like it, anon, and it's okay to have that opinion.
>>
>>254986248

He saw that anyone that spent more than a month playing Smash after release would get their ass handed to them by someone who wanted to get good at the game in general.

He didn't like it. He wanted everyone to have fun, whatever that fucking word means to him. Fun for him is having characters randomly trip, a mechanic that only he and EXTREME casuals liked. Though I'm sure someone on /v/ will defend tripping.

He has this weird soccer mom mentality, where he wants everyone to win when it's not possible in a game like Smash. There HAS to be a winner and a loser. It's weird that he thinks this way, because the field he works in is also competitive, even if in a different way.

So he dumped whatever physics engine HAL Labs made for Melee, made everything floaty and slow so the casual player always knows what is going on, and he even nerfed some items in Brawl. As of right now, I have no idea what he is doing. I just don't care anymore, and I don't he does, either.

The choices he makes are just too fucking weird. I think he may secretly be fed up with the whole thing, and just directs Smash because he needs a big paycheck. I don't say this because of anything in particular, it just seems to me like he doesn't give a fuck anymore about what people want.
>>
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>>254986883
The irony when tourneyfags argue this has been making me bust nuts laughing all night.

Face it, you're just bitchy because you're the minority for once.
>>
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>>254986829
but it's an image board with people you don't know and people you will never meet and will never see the name of and it's the same for you unless she was retarded enough to post her personal info on here.
>>
>>254986817
So... There is a competitive fan base, it's just small. Right.

See, I don't see why people think that things won't benefit all players. Having faster move recovery and more movement options makes the game runner at all levels.
>>
Did anything interesting at all happen on the stream after the Lost Levels challenge? I went to bed after that
>>
>>254987307
Bowser won the tourny I guess
>>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ2daniLjtE

>8:00
>Bill actually survives the Beetle

Oh shit.
>>
>>254987307
The tourmanent itself, with Bowser dominating it.
>>
>>254986982

It's funny because competitive Smash has some of the friendliest non-hostile people there can be in any community.

At least my experience was like that. I went to a meetup of comp. players playing friendly matches for practice, and everyone was chill as fuck. They even taught me a thing or two, and I got a little bit better. I don't think most of /v/ has had this sort of experience.
>>
>>254987115
You do realize you tourniggers are the MINORITY, right?

Sakurai just doesn't give a fuck what YOU think.

Jesus fuck you're like the people who bitch at GameFreak for making Pokemon a poor competitive title.
>>
>>254986829
>Cyber bullying
Where's that cyber bullying isn't real image?
>>
>be a Bowser main since Melee
>will now be called a bandwagoner

Fuck everything.
>>
>>254985768
lol, I think you at least forgot about gamefaqs, you inept-minded tourney tosspot. At the end of the day your kind is spewing just as much bullshit as those gosh darn "casual elitists"
>>
>>254987114
>You just don't like it

That's because the people who play this game in competitions seem to be awful people for the most part.
>>
>>254987387
You can wiggle out of it. Happened a couple of times during last night's shenanigans. I knew it couldn't be as retarded as they said.
>>
>>254987115
There are some neat ideas. Ledge guarding not being a guarantee against people who aren't recovering with up b and encouraging aggressiveness off the edge is pretty good.
>>
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>>254976710
64: Link and Link
Melee: Link and Doc/Falco
Brawl: Falco and ZSS/Meta Knight
Smash 4: ZSS and Fox/ZSS/Little Mac/Ridley
>>
>>254987387
Someone wiggled out of it earlier and he saw so he tried it that match 'cause it's all he could do once the beetle grabbed him. Pretty hype match.
>>
>>254976605
So, is that drop kick bowsers new side smash? Because it looks like a dash attack
>>
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>>254987307
Bowser is good in the new game.
>>
>>254987493
Nigga close your eyes, like turn the PC off nigga.
>>
>>254987460

I'm not a competitive player. You just look silly now making all those assumptions, anon.
>>
>>254987506
Hahaha, finally someone will understand how I felt as a guy who only used Fox out of genuine appreciation for the Star Fox series.
>>
>>254987201
Awww, is someone butthurt because he got made fun of for being bad in other games?

Even though the sole fact you actually post on /v/ means you're probably not even really that "casual" and actually spend a lot of time playing video games and are still terrible. Meanwhile even top players in competitive games still manage to juggle having a job and even significant others.

Face it, you're a failure anon.
>>
>>254987460
>doesn't give a fuck
>hosts a tournament
>mii popping up on evo streetpass

And here comes the conspiracy theories.
>>
>>254987624
New side smash. It seems to be one of the ones that move you forwards a bit like wolf's f-smash and charizard's f-smash. Pretty hype.
>>
>>254987506
Don't worry. When the full game/roster is out, he might not even be top tier. Bowser is just the first good strategy people discovered.
>>
>>254987528
You haven't met any of them. But keep up that generalization.
>>
>>254987689
>Le projecting meme
>>
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>>254987647
Christ. So much for hoping for a Smash without broken characters.
>>
>>254987804

It had more to do with the fact that the people playing Bowser actually had some decent Smash experience. All they had for competition were Young Links spamming Down Air and Sheiks spamming projectiles. Obviously they would get their asses kicked.
>>
>>254987804
I can see Bowser in mid tier.
>>
>>254987460
I actually think Sakurai could learn a thing or two from Gamefreak. 99% of Pokemon's fanbase probably doesn't give a fuck about EVs or IVs or natures or anything of that sort, but rather than remove those features entirely they just decided to streamline things and make them more transparent. You can now catch Pokemon with 3 perfect IVs, there's a minigame to EV train Pokemon, battling and training has generally been made much less of a hassle. Rather than remove techniques like crouch cancelling or L cancelling maybe Sakurai could just incorporate an advanced techniques tutorial in training mode or something, having those mechanics does not hurt anyone.
>>
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>>254987689
>y-you're a loser with no job
>>
>>254987689
So I know these people who have jobs and relationships but are idiots regardless
What about them
>>
>>254987460
What's funny is that with each progressive generation Gamefreak has thrown more and more bones towards the competitive community. Dream World Abilites/Super Training, piss easy breeding etc. So clearly they're aware of that audience and catering to them ever so subtly.

Why can't Sakurai do the same?
>>
Has anyone made a .webm of Zelda's B-up kill yet ?
>>
>>254987948
>E3 build

Also

>giving a shit about FFA balance
>>
>>254987689
>fact you actually post on /v/
>means you actually spend a lot of time playing video games
How new?
>>
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Even though I'm doing all this arguing about how I prefer Melee gameplay and physics, I'm still buying the new game anyway. I guess it doesn't matter end the end then. Any other tournyfags that are gonna buy Smash 4?
>>
>>254980108

are you retarded?

his neutral Air, his forward air got hyperbuffed

his Normal A got buffed too

irrelevant, but his final smash is also better


The only nerf is to his B , but his side B is honestly better. It has KO potential while "YAYAYAYA" was just cute.
>>
>>254976393
Was this meant to be posted on /vg/
>>
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>>254976710
64: I started off as the guy who wanted to play as Not-mario, but then I found out fucking Ness with in the game and I had to rep Earthbound. I was banned from playing 64 Ness among my circle of friends because they believed he was broken.
Melee: Naturally, I wanted to continue repping EB, but Melee Ness just wasn't as good. HOWEVER, I also fucking loved Mario 2 and was delighted to see that Peach was based on one of my favorite mario games.
Brawl: I tried Peach again and... it just wasn't the same. She lost all of her good tech, doesn't jump as high, and playing her feels like walking through molassas. However, I love Pikmin, so Olimar was there to pick up the slack.
Kerfuffle: I'm wise to Sakurai's game. I know Olimar is probably going to be shittier this time, so I'm nipping it in the bud and trying out Little Mac first, then I love Fire Emblem, so I'll probably try Robin next. We'll see, though.
>>
>>254988021
L canceling was also already a casual friendly mechanic in 64! The goal in smash was to convert fighting game ideas to more fun and easy to do gameplay. L canceling was the way to do it for recovery canceling.
>>
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Is 2 or 3 months a reasonable amount of time for Sakurai and the devs to implement reduced landing lag for aerials and other fixes into Smash Wii U?
>>
>>254987528
That's fine, I'm not defending the game or the community, it just sounded like you were confusing opinions with facts. Just trying to help, mang.
>>
>>254988349
But that would make the game too hard and not fun.
>>
>>254987771
It looks good but I miss his old forward smash.

>>254987948
>charged up smash attack from one of the strongest characters gets a lucky hit on a bunch of light (except for yoshi) high % characters and kills them
>pls sakurai nerf boswar is op
>>
>>254988349
Lucina has almost no recovery on ground landed air normals so it looks like some characters will be like that.
>>
>>254988106
Sakurai makes every Smash iteration cater towards the console's target demography.
>>
>>254988128
I'm not a tourneygger, but an unbalanced multiplayer game isn't worth much, now is it.
>>
>>254988106
>ever so subtly

This is the shit I'm talking about.

Why are the tourniggers purposefully ignoring the improvements from brawl?
>>
>post yfw Ridley gets deconfirmed in favor of K. Rool and Falco gets cut in favor of Krystal while Ness and Lucas get cut in favor of Poo and Jigglypuff doesn't return.
>>
>>254988218
Smash 4 looks fun, so yeah I'm still gonna get it.

I don't think it will be a better competitive experience than melee, but I know that it's casual play is going to blow the other games casual play the fuck out.
>>
>>254976710

bought the game without knownig anything, mained everything. Mainly kirby, mario, fox, who were surprisingly the high tier

Melee: wanting to main everything. game was ridden with clones and an imbalanced bracket where space animals, peach, marth or shiek were used or bust. Mained Peach, Shiek, Space Animals surprisingly too. didn't follow the tiers or competitive seen when I was 14-15.


>Brawl: I wanted to main everyone. I main everyone

>Kerfuffle: I will main everyone.
>>
>>254988349
can you fags stop whining to make this game a melee clone holy jesus
>>
>>254988486
I cannot for the life of me see Sakurai's reasoning. He wants the game to be a party game? People who like that gameplay will play FFA's with all items on very high on all stages. Competitive players can just play with modified settings. Everyone is happy. Why is it so difficult for him to see this? He can please both fucking crowds.
>>
>>254988547
Because those improvements from Brawl make it still worse than Melee.
>>
>>254988513https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9BpVmRCnQI
it's more reasonable to assume its an autocancel and not reduced landing lag
>>
>>254987689
>being so desperate that you resort to implying things about the other anon's life

You make yourself look like you're actually the failure with no life when you post this, though. How ironic did it feel to post that?
>>
>>254988486
That makes no sense.
>>
>>254988527
I'm gonna guess you thought Ike was OP in Brawl too huh
>>
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Figuring out how to make the best use of this Stand is basically what my first fights will be all about.
>>
>>254988685
>reduce landing lag
>hurr don't make it a melee clone
are you serious?
>>
>>254988994
a 0.5 second landing lag isnt' going to kill you
>>
>>254988547
Please enlighten me on these improvements. Even then they don't outweight the numerous other things removed or put in that detracted from the gameplay
>>
>>254987460
It's funny that you mention Pokemon because Game Freak routinely includes new features that the vast majority of the casual fanbase will never, ever bother to learn about or implement. But they implement them just the same because they know that competitive Pokemon has a following.
>>
>>254989056
no it's just going to make the game less fun
>>
>>254988810
I fucking love Ganon's DAir in brawl
nice way the build damage fast
>>
>>254988916
Not at all, but certain characters were just useless and thus not fun, for casuals and tourney tryhards alike.
>>
>>254988349

Sakurai has a full team behind him, and Nintendo dosh. They could fix that shit across the board TODAY but they won't. What Sakurai wants, goes.
>>
>>254988685
Stop posting.
>>
>>254989056
yeah i sure do love everyone having as much lag as links downair
>>
>>254976605
like how they don't use Bowser bomber in the most obvious ways which would have fucked them over easily
>>
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>>254988527
>unbalanced isn't worth much
Depends on the type if multiplayer game and how unbalanced. Most likely than not, the game isn't instantly shit just because it's a bit unbalanced at the highest level if skill.
>>
:>>254988547
Please list them :^)
>>
>>254988498
It's not who it hit, it's how huge the hitbox is. It hits completely behind him.
>>
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>>254988685
>anyone talking about gameplay is a meleefag
>anyone talking about the roster is a ridleyfag
>anyone who uses items is a casualfag
>anyone who knows enough about the game to not button mash is a tourneyfag
>>
>>254989204
>the game isn't instantly shit just because it's a bit unbalanced

I'm afraid we'e going to have to disagree about that.
>>
>>254988349
all they would need to do is speed up their animations by X%
that's literally it
>>
Is there anyone here right now that honestly enjoyed Brawl more than Melee from a GAMEPLAY standpoint?
>>
>>254988892
That's the point
>>
>>254989341
Hi.
>>
>>254989114
>>254989180
Except it effects everyone, you realize a game can still be fun without it being 5000x game speed right?
>>
>>254989252
the hitbox might need some tweaking but I'm pretty sure yoshi ran head first into bowsers legs. The problem is you cant clearly see that on this gif
>>
>>254989291
>roster is a ridleyfag

Or just a rosterfaggot who wants to cut any existing character they dislike to free up a "slot"
>>
>>254989341
People are going to say yes. I heard in a thread last night someone saying they preferred Brawl because among other things, input lag allowed them to "set shit up" better against more skillful players.
>>
>>254988726
The risk of a competitive player abusing those mechanics and bullying others by winning every time is too great.
>>
>>254989403
>effects
come on
>>
>>254989341
>Bowser ascending to a new plane of existence
>>
>>254989403
sure do love my link dair
>>
>>254989341

Every time I go back to Melee, it just seems unpolished and less fun.

It's more satisfying to chase people down and land KOs, due to how fast it is, but that's literally it. Everything else about the game feels less refined, and that hurts the game imho.

I always end up going back to Brawl after a week or two of Melee.
>>
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>>254989312
I mean, what are these absolutely perfectly balanced games you play?
>>
>>254989403
The fact that handicaps affect everyone is not a reason to include handicaps.
>>
>>254989341
I like some things more about Brawl. I like the air dodge better in Brawl, I like that you can crawl, I like that you can footstool, I like that you can grab ledges while facing in either direction.
I prefer the speed of melee's gameplay but everything else is better in Brawl.
>>
>>254989341
There are some people who prefer the slower, more thoughtful pace of brawl. Nothing wrong with that. You can make excellent games with thoughtful gameplay in mind.

But every good thing Brawl did was instantly invalidated by Tripping.
>>
>>254989494
So, ok. Better players should not be able to use their skill and understanding of the game to beat people that are worse than they are? Why?
>>
>>254989403
Reduced landing lag effects everyone, you realise that a game can still be fun without it removing control from the players right?
>>
>>254988349

They could, but they won't.

Huge fan of the series but this is probably the last one that will ever be hyped at all, if not the last one ever made.

Sakurai is too stubborn, and with his health problems, it's doubtful he'll be putting himself through this again when people 'aren't appreciative' of his work.
>>
>>254989621
>>254989621
>>254989561
>>254989523

Why are you guys so against it, it adds to the gameplay; by adding risks to using aerials. Aerials should be something you can toss out and be 100% safe because you l-canceled.
>>
>>254989735
What was Sakurai's reason for implementing tripping? Did he ever say anything about it during Brawl's pre-release days?
>>
>>254987948
or you could not run into charged smash attacks

Bloody hell you're the kind of person who complained about Ike being broken in Brawl.
>>
>>254989735
>more thoughtful
Demonstrate how it is more thoughtful.
>>
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>>254989592
you literally cannot find a more balanced multiplayer game, the better team wins without fail
wish it wasn't on the otherwise godawful PS3
>>
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>>254976710
>>
>>254989735
And don't forget the random input lag that was there for no reason. There's no excuse for this shit.
>>
>>254989094
Yeah I know, it's like... the harmony between casual and serious play is quite evident in the pokemon games and yet, here we are with Sakurai making the tears of smashfags flow endlessly. Why is he such a cruel smash tyrant? It's like watching a greek god smite the helpless people that worship them in utter fear of the god's supremely dominant power over them. That's what Sakurai is to the smashfags he smites with each new smash game and it's the funniest thing I've ever seen. It's really like a troll from /v/ is actually in charge of the smash games, like Sakurai was put under mind-control by a casual elitist /v/ troll after he made melee.

L M A O !
M
A
O
!
>>
>>254989845
Because it negatively affects everyone and in some cases makes relatively bad characters even worse, among other things. There is no reason to do it. Not everything needs a "risk" in the form of the game actively working against you.

Tell me why a very, very standard attack like an aerial should not be a safe move.
>>
>>254989871
Because Wii owners are casual. That's what Sakurai actually said.
>>
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r8 m8
>>
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Seriously, anyone who actually buys this casual garbage is almost certainly underage. Anyone old enough to have played Melee wouldn't be even considering purchasing this.
>>
>>254989845
if you think all l-cancelled aerials are 100% safe you don't know shit
>>
>>254990025
fag
>>
>>254989958
Are you ok?
>>
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>>254989741
Not talking about Melee here but, an example that would answer your question would have been snaking in Mario Kart. That was a top player skill that simply broke the game.
>>
>>254990021
>playing as cheap characters after picking bro chars
step it up doo
>>
When does today's stream start?
>>
>>254990021
Anon, are you me?!
>>
>>254990078
The majority of them are
>b-but this one move out of the 100 i-isnt safe
>>254990004
It adds depth and strategy to a game that desperately needs it. Let Smash Wii U be it's own game.
>>
>>254990025
This seems like false flagging.
>>
>>254989878
or maybe you could not make ridiculously powerful smash attacks

I like Ike
>>
>>254990125
Yeah, I'm fine and, thanks for asking! How are you? Butthurt? No? Good! But, I think you're getting a little too concerned over my silly post, as if you had autism and couldn't take a little silliness for what it were...
>>
>>254989845
Aerials aren't 100% safe in Melee/PM, that's 64 you're thinking of. In Brawl there is too much risk to using aerials, which shuts down offensive options, whereas (IMO) Melee struck the right balance. SSB4 is looking to be a bit better, but it would probably benefit from reduced landing lag.

If you like the risk/reward stuff, how about reduced landing lag only on aerials that connect with the opponent?
>>
>>254990320
Demonstrate HOW landing lag adds depth and strategy.
>Let Smash Wii U be it's own game.
I fail to see how anyone should not criticize a game for universally poor choices.
>>
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>>254989903
>PS3
>Godawful
I guess you play most of the go to games on PC
>>
>>254990380
Are you still ok?
>>
>>254976710
Samus | Samus
Samus | Samus
Samus | Falco
(Project M) Samus | Ganondorf
Samus | Pac-man
>>
>>254990119
Nice comeback
>>254990323
The fuck does that have to do with anything? I swear you guys will defend anything.
>>
>>254989958
>L M A O !
>>
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>>254976710
No man left behind this time, even if Pac-Man is shit. I will find a way to git gud with him.
>>
>>254989958
>>254990380
Make sure to take a break from the computer every now and then, anon. It's good to get up and walk around a little, maybe do some exercise.
>>
>>254990320
>what is shield grab
>what is upb out of shield
>what is shine out of shield
>what is FUCKING ROLLING OUT OF THE WAY
even if you have frame perfect shield pressure with fox or falco you can ALWAYS roll out or DO SOMETHING
you're NEVER shit out of luck
>>
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>>254976710
>>
>>254990320
None of them are if your opponent spaced themselves right to kick your shit in for whiffing. Excessive landing lag just makes the game slow.
>>
>>254990025
>>254990496
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/04/ninterview_jason_mew2king_zimmerman_on_mastering_super_smash_bros

Mew2King is getting it.
>>
>>254990423
Because it differs from melee doesn't make it a poor choice.

Players should be punished for randomly or mistiming an aerial. Similar to other fighting games where you throw out a poke but miss leaving you open for an attack.
>>
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>>254990428
PS3 is mainly godawful because of this irredeemable piece of shit right here.
>>
>>254976605

Looks so fucking slow.

I can feel the hype leaving my body
>>
>>254989871
I assume he was trying to even the playing field between new players and tourneyfags by implementing something random that leaves you randomly open to attacks.

Trouble is, casuals will flail around and get blown up when they trip. Tourneyfags will actively reduce the chances of tripping by reducing dashes, playing characters who trip less because they don't rely on Smashes or dash attacks. It still works to the advantage of the person who knows the game more, while also making characters who rely on smashes and dash attacks less viable.
>>
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So is Sakurai gonna make him god-tier for this game?
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>>254990764
people said he was p fast so I think so
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>>254990714
It would be a bad choice if it was in Melee, too.

Landing lag punishes you for doing an aerial, period. Why is this acceptable?
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>>254990730
whats wrong with it
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>>254990320
>Let Smash Wii U be it's own game.
They could add Piccolo, General Buttnaked and a potted plant to the roster and you'd still be saying this shit.
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>>254990714
Smash is the only fanbase where people are vehement on trying out a game that goes against Melee. You don't see that on SF fans or anything else.
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>>254990320
Not even that same anon, but that's bullshit.

Majority of moves even when L-cancelled are suspectible to shield grabs without proper spacing.

Conversely, even without L-cancelling, a lot of the moves are safe if you have good spacing. The only difference is that following up from it will be much tougher, and your pressure game won't be as good.

>>254990320
>Let Smash Wii U be its own game

If you keep aerial lag on moves it will end up becoming like brawl.

it's already set to not be like melee since it doesn't have the things that "made" melee; melee.
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>>254990951
>You don't see that on SF fans or anything else.
Yes you do.
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>>254990873
Bad ergonomics, bad d-pad, bad analog sticks, bad analog triggers, sponge buttons.
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https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/493074520790822912

Get ready, mothafuckas. Twitch 60fps masterrace
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>>254990714
They should be punished by the other player, not by the game.
If you can't punish L cancelled aerials, then you aren't spacing correctly.
If you're talking about being + on shield, it's still never enough to get a guaranteed grab or some shit, hitting a shield shouldn't be a free punish for the guy who blocked, that's how you make a boring defensive game.
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>>254976827

>brawl
>good single player content

pick one faggot

SSE sucked ass
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>>254991038
i see thanks
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>>254991012
Find me 3 articles, reviews, fuck even quotes from channies proving this.
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>>254976393
I just got home, did I miss anything from todays event?
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>>254990850
Because not all moves should be safe, there should always be a risk in being punished by the enemy player
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>>254991126
bowser's hitboxes cover an entire stage the size of Final Destination
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>>254990730
Then use a different controller? The ps3 supports generic USB controllers. You could use an og Xbox duke if you wanted.
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>>254991175
Which would happen if you wiff an aerial without landing lag. Again tell me why landing lag is necessary for this. Tell me why the game itself should punish you for doing a move as standard as an aerial.
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>>254980982

this image is ancient lol
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>>254991007
Most mainstay moves in melee required only a bit of spacing to be safe on shield when attacking and l canceling properly.
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>>254991117
>channies
what
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>>254991201
He's a big guy.
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>>254976710
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>>254990876
Potted plant is too OP.
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>>254991370
in smash 4 wii u
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>>254991091
SSE was also the reason why he cut Mewtwo, Roy and some other characters.

Mewtwo was also glitchy as fuck in SSE.
And they only dropped Roy, because he was boring as fuck.
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>>254982772

great now I don't need to make an image, thank you
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>>254991390
>>254991390
Lets hope zelda fags don't ruin your character cause of muh lore.
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>>254989735
>more thoughtful
Having less options at your disposal does not make the game "more thoughtful." It reminds me of a Brawl match I watched where the players literally stood there doing nothing for 30 seconds and the commentators called it "mind games."
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>>254991570
>drops boring marth clone
>brings another boring marth clone
I will never understand samurai
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>>254991390
>>254982285
Just fuck already.
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>>254990703
Mew2King still plays Brawl even after admitting several times in interviews that he hates it now, he basically has Stockholm syndrome for the series.
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>>254976710
If wanted to main includes characters not in the game, then switch out the bottom two with Roy
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>>254989735
The problem is brawl is that the only approach that wasn't always a net negative for a character was a net neutral. That makes for very boring games.
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>>254982412

>he's never played smash against anyone good

B-but anon! I can beat all my friends!!
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>>254991390
>Expected Brawl Ganon
>PLAYED Brawl Ganon

That's some dedication.
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>>254991091
>>254991570
SSE was ugh. Thankfully Smash Run is replacing it for the 3DS version. Smash Bros City Trial will be so much better.
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>>254991570
>And they only dropped Roy, because he was boring as fuck.
Which is why they brought back his gameplay with Lucina.

Roy was one of the least liked Lords in Fire Emblem. He was brought into Smash Bros because he was one of the latest Lords at the release, and Lucina took his place for the exact same reasons (although she isn't the only Lord in that game)
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>>254991318
Definitiely, but still punishable without the proper spacing even if it is just a little.

Also
>this one move out of the 100 i-isnt safe

Which means it's safe to say that he was talking about a lot of the attacks, and not just the ones that are mainly used.
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>>254991607
>It reminds me of a Brawl match I watched where the players literally stood there doing nothing for 30 seconds and the commentators called it "mind games."
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>>254991768
He plays brawl because he can win tournaments. Like Daigo playing ssf4 back in 2011. Though in his case he changed his mind again.
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>>254991882
Lucina just doesn't have tippers, she doesn't Roy's hilt bonus.
I hope Ike gets it, his sword seems like it'd be weaker at the tip.
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>>254991938
is the brawl scene alive at all at this point?
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>>254992114
probably in japan
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>>254992062
She does have Roy's hilt bonus, Miiverse posts confirmed it.
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>>254978456
So its fun? Speed does not matter as long as its fun
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>>254992228
Being too slow can make it less fun.
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>>254992062
Ike already had strongest hit box on the girth of his blade.
No homo
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>>254992196
no miiverse posts confirm that the damage is equal throughout the blade
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>>254992196
>Miiverse posts confirmed it

Source?

https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADRUqGH9l5mlg

I've only seen this post, which deconfirms it, unless he changed his mind.
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>>254992228
High speed frantic gameplay is more fun
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>>254976710
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>>254991091
The fuck was so bad about SSE? Shit was perfectly fine.
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>>254978478
Brawl is my favourite Smash
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>>254978456
I feel like the 3DS version isn't as fast as the Wii U version but faster than Brawl and more aggressive which seems fine by me
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>>254992418
as well as gameplay that allows hyper offense
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Here you go. This summed up my smash experience so far
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