>probably a shitload of others too
How many times do people have to get scammed for them to wake up?
They can't. They'll continue backing them no matter what.
>Set a goal that will get you a good amount of money but which is low enough you're almost guaranteed to hit it.
>Get as much money as you can from other people.
>Use a bit of your own money if necessary to ensure that you go over.
>Take the money and run.
I actually like this. I want this to happen all the time. It's just so much fun seeing retards acting retarded and then getting angry at sometheing their very own retardation has brought them.
>funding tapered off to its previous level almost immediately after Areal hit its goal
They funded it themselves to get the real backers money. Common scam practice. Ouya did this, too.
why do you care? let idiots get scammed. eventually the site will come under pressure to make changes and the scamming will stop. but even if it doesn't, let these idiots learn their lesson the hard way.
shit, I don't know why /v/ would even be against this. I know a lot of you broke faggots know how to make flash games or some easy shit. you should jump on the scamwagon while you can and get paid.
>dat kickstarter video
is this parody?
Another failed Kickstarter game? Alright! This'll make sure the world of EA and big publisher style development stays unchallenged. Because gaming is so great under them.
...Seriously, why are you cheering this?
At least we got Armikrog and Eternity.
Who cares? Everyone with half a brain knows the risk of getting nothing in return for backing a project is high.
Do you get assmad each time an old senile lady buys worthless shit over teleshopping or people joining religious cults which suck them dry?
Wait is it legal to do a kickstarter, not complete the goals and not offer refunds
Hey guys Im about to kickstarter this new MMO idea, it has a map 50,000 times the size of earth and its fully populated with the worlds most advanced AI. Its like DayZ but with crysis level graphics. I have no experience at all but give me $50,000 and I'll give it a shot and if I fail oh well
No they don't. They buy the new one because they want to play the same game for another year but with minor tweaks.
Nobody buys CoD or Battlefield because they want something new, that's fucking stupid.
I know, its horrible
because I'm one of them though I must say I am really enjoying the Scam Citizen dogfight module
>People will drop $64K on a concept
>but will only drop half that on further development of a free and open-source game they can already play _right now_.
0ad is too good for these fuckers.
>yogscast audience is too gullible and retarded to sue
>kickstarter was run by a now bankrupt company, so they can't give any refunds
>would have to make complicated lawsuit proving that the owner of the LLC acted irresposibly or something
>Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.
yogscast apologist pls go and learn to read
>he thinks that little message has any legal backing whatsoever
EVERY backing is a donation 100%
It's up to the project creator to choose whether they want to be decent human beings and actually give you what you DONATED towards or not.
The law is very clear on it.
source: Me, I'm a law graduate.
Sometimes I dream of doing this.
-Investing some time and money into a decent looking initial video.
-Setting a goal of around $100,000.
-Once it's gotten to around $50,000 I donate the rest myself (I currently have about $60,000 in a bank account).
-I close the project.
Would you guys resent my actions or admire my abuse of gullible idiots?
What they did is they made a fake game company, winterkewl games, and when that company when to shit and became bankrupt, yogscast back up and said, oh no we weren't behind the kickstarter winterkewl was, we just gave them our IPs and just advertised it, but we weren't behind it so we don't have to refund you jack shit. They run off with the money, winterkewl has no money to pay back the backers, and to make themselves look good they just give a game so they don't look like the bad guy. It's a good scam, I'll give it to them, the jewed people out of their shekels really well.
Nah. I don't think any big site got pre-release review copies of the game, so they only had to check what the public opinion on the game is and pander to that. They still need to keep up their facade of journalism.
I really hope more people think like you.
Kickstarters and alpha funding models are the only way we can get free of big publishers that think only about money and make games only to cater to casual filth.
>fund a game that you like
>it caters to its funders and its funders only
BUT NO, OF COURSE WE HAVE TO GET SCAMMERS THERE TOO. It's like WE CAN'T have nice things. AT least, the last Divinity & FTL came out well, and there's still hope PoE and Wasteland 2. Also Underrail uses an alpha funding model and it's coming out well.
We can only hope.
Are there any others kickstarters that came out well? Or other we can still hype for?
haha you're so right my videogame loving brother!
i can remember all of those kickstarter campaigns where the money was given to the project starters and they took it and ran haha but fear not! they all paid it back because le law sez so :ooooo
>Paying for Kickstarter
>Paying for Early Access
>Paying for DLC
>Paying for Micro-transactions
Except kickstarter doesn't use the word donate. They say pledge on all of their FAQ page which has another conotation entirely since donating means you give up all rights to said donation after it's given. This is not true of kickstarters otherwise people wouldn't be allowed to receive refunds or sue.
So what I'm saying is. You're wrong as shit and might need to go back to school.
>failing to meet goal, few days left
>fabricate putin letter
>create fake accounts and dump $10k+ per account, pushing you over 15k passed the goal
>create even more accounts to spam 10k+ comments so any other comments about it being a scam are flooded out
nobody was gullible at that point, they just went batshit insane in terms of using every fucking trick in the book no matter how obvious
>kicktraq shows massive jumps in money, even on days with negative backers joining
As long as you add in the project somewhere that it endorses LGBTQ and/or more female presence in games then you will be lauded as one of the saviors of vidya and you can literally do no wrong. It will also net you an instant 100.000 dollar increase.
>Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.
WHY WON'T IT READ
Shadowrun returns wasn't 10/10 goty material, but it gave the backers what they promised and was a good game
I really wish the mount and blade devs would turn to crowdfunding and hire some more people
Everyone in the thread is an idiot. I couldn't even be bothered to link everyone.
Kick starter suspended the campaign BECAUSE it was shady. Did anyone even read the article?
No actually it's "I work hard and have a job" money
Because there were millions of people telling them to do something about it. Don't fucking sit there and act like the admins did it out of the kindness of their heart you brainless fuckwit. Weeks of reporting and bitching before those faggots do anything.
We know that, dumbass, it just proves that idiots will donate to anything on kickstarter even if it is shady, we weren't arguing that it was shady that it was suspended. Retard.
Oh believe me I've already thought about this angle.
I'm thinking about making a 2D side-scroller with a little girl as the main star who's lost in a dream world where nobody will recognize her as a little girl and instead call her a "thing" and shit like that.
My point will be that it's about gender identity and acceptance.
I'm genuinely considering this, but I shouldn't say any more in case I do it.
>tfw I backed Wild Season because I wanted a PC and Vita Harvest
>tfw I backed Unsung Story because I wanted a new FF tactics since it's been dead to Square
I won't get scammed... Will I?
You should do it it sounds like something white knights, SJWs, game journalists/gaming sites, feminists would love the fuck out of. Don't forget us when you're filthy rich anon.
>Preorder a game that's created by a AAA developer, proper management, whose company's reputation and well being is on the line.
>Give money to joe-blow indie developer who really think's that this would totally be a cool idea if something like this happened. It'll seriously only take $8,000 to make this game bro!
Son, it was Kickstarter's legal division.
If you know anything about the processes of law in anything to do with finance or commerce you'll know that it usually takes fucking months for shit to be worked out. Doubly so for uncovering scams, which are all about fooling these systems for as long as possible so the money can be moved and accountability erased.
>giving your money to areal
anyone who gave money towards that piece of shit doesn't deserve the money anyways. As with all investments, you look at the character of the people behind it.
Without Kickstarter, I've seen some great projects get made that wouldn't have come out otherwise. Many of them I've bought into and one of them I've made myself. I can't afford to put my paycheck on hold for two years while I develop a game and if i pumped out a game in 2-3 months, I'd be accused of exploiting nostalgia because I'd have to make some shitty platformer.
I don't see the problem with Kickstarter, people who want to see the game get made buy in, lower price for buying in early. Surely it's better than tying yourself to a publisher or taking out a loan.
>lol tl:dr :D
>believing that works in front of a judge
Are you literally retarded?
That argument only works if the clauses are in violation of existing law or in some cases of B2C contracts.
In B2B deals you can NEVER argue tl;dr.
It's become fairly evident that there's no such thing as a AAA developer. Everything that makes those games AAA is provided by a publishing corporation that can, in fact, do whatever they want and don't need to worry about public image because private investors are not the public and the public does not understand the system.
If you're spending money on a game that doesn't exist, you're doing it wrong. I only fund games that have a working prototype with a majority of the core features done. I judge based on the devs previous work and what they have so far. If I don't like it, I don't fund it. Because of this, every project I've bought into has been good.
Insurgency, Divinity Original Sin, Wasteland 2, The Repopulation (beta is really really good), Shards Online (again, really good for a prototype), Divergence Online (really good, if you like sandbox MMOs like Ultima/EVE/Star Wars Galaxies, the guy needs the money and it's looking great)
tl;dr: make an educated decision and don't just blindly click the donate button.
>How the fuck did I not know about Areal? Are people really being scammed by STALKER's devs?
That's the funny thing, they CLAIM to be stalker devs. It has been confirmed that they aren't
Are you literally retarded?
>kickstarter is succesful
>money is paid to the project starters
>they put it on their private bank accounts
>kickstarter realizes they fucked up two days after paying them
>try to get the money back
>lolno it's gone
>Are people really being scammed by STALKER's devs?
According to the survarium devs, the people claiming to be STALKER devs just joined GSC for a couple of months and didn't really do shit just so they could have STALKER development on their portfolio.
People will disagree with me here, but I think Planetary Annihilation is shaping up okay. All that seems like it's missing is orbital units, maybe tier 2 orbital, Ai, and a Skirmish. The only thing I'm worried about is if Uber abandons it or not.
It's legally binding, nigga.
You always read the small print.
You read the entire fucking document, you study it at length. If you sign it, agree to the terms of service, etc. it is legally binding regardless of what you failed to read.
This is of course within reason. A judge or equivalent judicial body may make a ruling that something within a contract is unreasonable, though that does not mean the entire thing is invalid.
You have no idea what publishing is, do you?
The resources used in making a triple-A game come from the publishers, who essentially own the developers as subsidiaries or hold contracts. Not in all cases in the video games industry of course, but in the case of triple-A games ALWAYS because no developer can muster 500 million dollars just for advertisement and they rarely have their own PR or legal divisions.
Dont believe me?
http://evildeathnightmare.com/ >mfw /a/ AND /k/ have both beaten the video games board to making a video game
>mfw remembering this thread http://boards.deniableplausibility.net/v/thread/249699815
So many shattered dreams.
Problem is, to enforce that provision in any way, Kickstarter would have to spend money on lawyers, spend time in court, and spend forever waiting for payment that will never come ("we spent it already, don't have any way to pay it back").
The principle of not throwing good money after bad means that Kickstarter will never pursue anyone over that section, thus kickstarters are risk-free for scammers.
Yes it was. Promised features are in and being polished to hell currently. I really want to be the exception to the Kickstarter/Early Access image. Had some extra funding so I started work on post-release (free content) and modding support in addition to Oculus Rift integration.
Promised patches every 2 weeks, content updates every month, dedicated server tools, modding support. Not releasing early access either.
Listen here dipshit.
A EULA is worth exactly SHIT in European courts. These devs are from Ukraine AKA EUROPE so they know kikestarter can't do shit to them.
Stick to amerikkkan law, Tyrone.
You don't get access to funding until the timer runs out. Then you have a processing time of about five days because of Amazon Payments in addition to all the shit Kickstarter needs to sort out. I would know, I've done this before.
>By creating a fundraising campaign on Kickstarter, you as the Project Creator are offering the public the opportunity to enter into a contract with you. By backing a fundraising campaign on Kickstarter, you as the Backer accept that offer and the contract between Backer and Project Creator is formed. >Kickstarter is not a party to that agreement between the Backer and Project Creator. All dealings are solely between Users.
IT STILL WON'T READ
No, investors and other shareholders do. Money made from sales are split between investors and the publisher. Much of the publisher's money goes into keeping itself and its many subsidiaries in the green. The publisher gives the developers projects and funding, which usually comes from investors, though in-house funded projects are not uncommon. In the current vidya industry publishers cover pretty much every other aspect of business for them. Investors can influence the activities of a publisher with their ridiculous amounts of capital.
Publishers are corporations, developers are companies within that corporation with a varying degree of independence from publisher-to-publisher. Though for AAA publishers that developer independence is pretty much nothing but a name and a marginal corporate profile.
Go back to the PS4 thread, fucking shill
Possibly, but Steam keys cost money. I can't just give them out unfortunately. You have to buy your own keys unless you're part of some pre-established contract with Valve like part of a Humble Bundle or promotion.
I assumed everyone learned the basics of this in high school social science, the rest I learned from my grandfather who left me a few agricultural storage sheds so I wouldn't just blow my inheritance on video games and anime.
It is how the vast majority of corporations are set up, publisher/developer are just names used to identify corporations/companies in media industries because their operations are slightly different than Coca-Cola or German Steel Trust or whatever.
You need to figure out this shit if you want to make money in stocks and to a lesser degree, property.
>He wants 30% of a game's revenue just so he'll let people download it from his servers.
>Physical distribution is almost cheaper
What the fuck am I reading
>I want to be clear that I am not criticising here. I personally believe that Yogscast have gone above and beyond any obligation to backers, legal or moral, in regards to this project.
I can smell the shills from over here.
The truth. Gaben earns billions selling other people's games even though digital distribution should be dirt cheap.
brick&mortar store owners dream of the margins steam gets. They get a smaller share of the revenue and have much higher costs.
>It's not a grey area. There's almost certainly a clause against it in the kickstarter terms
They put ins shit against this after several kick starters pulled off the Fund their own shit at the last minute stunt to get backers money.
OUYA did it, was one of the most visible to do it.
>a game on steam sells 10 million copies
>this is 600 million dollars
>steam takes 180 million dollars for doing fuck all
Anybody who would claim with a straight face that physical distribution costs more than 180 million dollars needs to be shot in the face.
>So many shattered dreams.
That should be Kickstarter's tagline.
Just the retailer gets 25%. Then you have several other middlemen: the publisher, the distributor, whoever the fuck makes the actual physical copies. On top of that add returns.
So yes, while the B&M store's margin is lower than steam's, the overall margin for the dev is MUCH larger when doing digital distribution.
Its not the price of distribution they are paying. Its the bonus of it being sold on steam. Yes they pay 180 million to gaben but in turn they've made 300 million mmorethan they normally would have. Just by selling on steam.
>>steam takes 180 million dollars for doing fuck all
>hosting game, marketing by having it visible on the store, managing transactions for the company as a Point Of Sale system.
Look just cause you dont understand why steam gets a cut does not mean they do nothing.
Before PayPal and Shit like steam, a company trying to sell their own products would get railed on fees by banks. You were lucky to keep even 30% of your fucking profits when it came out in the wash.
The reason devs loved steam is they got to keep a lot more of their money then previously.
The number is kept under NDA and I will not risk losing out on Steam distribution but I can say it is not 30%. They make different numbers according to the developer's financial standing and AAAs pay more than indies.
For me, it's significantly less than 30% and that's all I can say on the matter.
Digital distribution cuts out a lot of costs, yet Gaben takes a large part of those savings for himself.
A retail store would be very lucky to get a 3-5% profit margin out of games.
Steam's profit margin is more akin to 20-25%.
>The reason devs loved steam is they got to keep a lot more of their money then previously.
Yet Notch gives Steam the finger because he can keep a much higher share by running his own store.
Same goes for a slew of video game publishers, even small niche publishers, who all run their own stores with games being cheaper on their store than on steam
The developers are showing it off on Giant Bomb tomorrow.
Also this argument about retail being cheaper than digital is absolutely absurd. Platform holders (Sony, MS, Nintendo) take a similar cut to Steam (all take about 30%) as royalties. This is on top of retail cut, manufacturing, distribution, having to pay to for each patch etc etc.
You wanna know what all these failed kickstarters have in common? I didn't back any of them.
Just because you get your shekels stolen from you, due to your own lack of ability to do a background check before pledging, doesn't mean that crowdfunding is damned as a whole.
Or do some fucking research
I've backed small time projects, nonvidya related, that I knew weren't scams.
It literally takes 10-30 minutes if a project interests you to do some checking and make sure it is legit
Part of the reason why some devs refuse to use KS is because they don't release the money fast enough for them. If your project got funded for 500k and you need 20k for monthly expenses alone, you'd go in the red because KS won't release your shit 1 to 2 months after your project got funded.
>retailer gets 25%
>most of that is eaten up by employee wages, rent, insurance, etc.
>he's lucky if he can stay in the black
>steam gets 25% or more
>costs are a tiny fraction of a physical retailers cost
Thats becuase the people backing Ambrov just wanted a good RPG.
When they bragged that they were bringing on helper, all faith was lost that it would be good and mass refunds happened.
They had billed it as having SJW leanings, but done right. You cant do it right if you bring in hamburgler.
Pretty much my thoughts. Just do your fucking research and you'll probably be fine.
Although I did back a few games that probably won't turn out to be anything great (Echoes of Eternea, The Dead Linger and Legends of Eisenwald) they are all making steady albeit slow improvements are they were probably the riskiest kickstarters I funded.
>As long as you add in the project somewhere that it endorses LGBTQ and/or more female presence in games then you will be lauded as one of the saviors of vidya and you can literally do no wrong
You know why many SJW games attempts fail to get funding.
Because SJWs dont actually buy or play vidya games. Nor would they back games.
Almost all game purchases of any worth are from a 30% chuck of gamers, almost all male. Thats right, of the current undestanding of the gaming market almost all the industry is sustained by male gamers. A 30% chunck that accounts for almost 80% of purchases.
>Hateful lonely neets who have completely lost the ability to trust anyone, and believe everyone is out there to scam and trick them somehow.
A few bad Kickstarters doesn't mean the idea is somehow flawed.
It was from that stupid fucking survey SJWs like to cite about girl gamers being 50% of the market.
And the related surveys that found that 5% of gamers are WHALES and that even on the mobile market the ones willing to spend money tend to be males.
Steam has a near monopoly on digital distribution. Wadjet Eye Games said in an interview that Steam accounts for 60-80% of digital sales even though other services like it exist.
I don't know anything about AAA development but even if I paid 30%, I'd be making more than I would through other digital retailers. Humble Store is the only place where I make more money.
Phil Fish was also a millionaire by the time Fez came out so I'm sure that was a matter of how much they paid.
Steam wants new developers to make more money so Steam can make more money in the long run off future titles.
Valve provide a storefront, provide servers, allow free updates/patches, have to pay legal teams and insurance, customer support and a bunch of other shit and they are a business that exists to profit.
I seriously have no idea what the fucking issue is here and I barely use the service.
things kickstarter does to this industry:
>makes people buy games completely unseen before they are even made
>making big promises is what generates revenue. Delivering on promises optional
>retards decide over which games get a budget and which don't
>financial risk of software development taken by consumer (!)
>developer doesn't have to answer to anyone, if development doesn't go as planned
>Do you get assmad each time an old senile lady buys worthless shit over teleshopping or people joining religious cults which suck them dry?
yes? because those people are preying on the feeble minded?
>digitial distribution of software costs the same as running a physical store
>the whole ecommerce revolution was just a fluke
>Mount&Blade, KSP and Minecraft devs couldn't afford to run their own stores and download servers
>Gaben is the savior of video games
No consumer is made to do anything on kickstarter. You can decide to give money for a project you want to see if you trust the people doing it. It is your responsibility what you do with your money and it is a risk.
Honestly so many good games have already come from it I dont care if morons who back shady Russian shit or licensed youtube celebrity games lose their money.
And really, with day 1 review embargoes and other bullshit your money is thrown into a crapshoot either way if you are paying for video games.
You are a fucking idiot. I dont even know where to start.
Steam has a huge name and a massive installbase with a clear storefront where they advertize new titles. Valve has to cover their own ass from scammers (fraud issues etc), maintain servers and other shit. They dont do it as a charity they do it as a business. People pay the fee for the benefits the platform can provide.
If you think every fucking indie developer who hosts their own game will be noticed you are deluded.
I dont understand ehy you think Valve should run Steam for free. None of this shit makes any sense.
Nah. I'm loving quite a few games out of it. I'm not looking for AAA games on KS. I want games with proper gameplay and that's usually what I get.
Not to mention that KS is a treasure trove for /tg/ related shit.
They certainly have the biggest market share, but I wouldn't call it a monopoly. They don't force people to be exclusive to Steam, anyone with enough money could start their own digital distribution service and many have. There's nothing really that prevents competition with Steam.
>Steam has a huge name and a massive installbase
thank you for describing what amounts to a monopoly with resulting monopoly prices.
If you publish your game on steam you do not pay for the distribution service, which should be dirt cheap. You pay for Gaben's control of 90% of the PC consumers, who will only ever buy games from steam because they are utterly retarded.
Further than that, companies that use Steamworks DRM can sell the keys through whatever means they like and Valve doesnt get a cut. This creates more competition through plsces like GMG, G2A, Amazon etc.
>>makes people buy games completely unseen before they are even made
That's people's fault for misunderstanding KS. It's not a pre-order shop, you are only supposed to back things you are very enthusiastic about and because you trust the devs and want to see their ideas come true.
>>making big promises is what generates revenue. Delivering on promises optional
Failing on a KS destroys your reputation. Not delievering rewards can be brought to law (has been done already)
>>retards decide over which games get a budget and which don't
Because big publishers who don't even care about videogames don't exist right?
>>financial risk of software development taken by consumer (!)
That's the whole fucking point, nobody is forcing you to fund, you must be ready to cope with the possibility of failure.
>>developer doesn't have to answer to anyone, if development doesn't go as planned
False. If they don't deliver rewards it can be brought to law, and in the long term it affects your reputation heavily
You are just a knee-jerk retard who has been too exposed to /v/ threads about the worst of the worst, dismissing the good games and not even acknowledging the ok/mediocre ones that were finished.
What's wrong with that? Personally I dislike Steam's way of selling games to customers, I do like to own the game and not a liscence to play it but most people don't care or just like Steam's services.
The "monopoly" that Steam has acquiered is only through good business, they offer a service to both customers and sellers and both like it and they grew because they offered a good service. Besides there is competition and Steam isn't maliciously overshadowing them, they just are the most popular.
>sell the keys through whatever means they like and Valve doesnt get a cut
That's not how it works, retard.
Devs/publishers have to pay money to give out steam keys. Evidenced by indie devs being reluctant to give existing owners steam keys, after they've got their game on steam.
>mfw I saw this coming from a mile away
They used clips from a unity demo, STALKER gameplay and concept art from Survivarium as their progress video and kept spouting "new engine" twice a minute, what the fuck did you expect to happen?
While I'm mad because they insulted STALKER with this, I'm glad they took the money. Any retard who willingly donated to this after watching the "progress" video deserves to have that money stolen. I hope the fake devs enjoy their money. This was the easiest troll of all time and I think they've earned that dosh.
No they dont, retard. That is exactly how third party key sellers can undercut Steam prices.
The reluctance from indie devs is because when people claim a key it doesnt move their title on the top seller lists because those lists are vased on revenue.
Steamworks keys are free because when purchased through a third party you become a part of the Steam installbase and are much more likely to purchase a license on Steam, generaring more income for Valve. That is why Valve allow this. You fucking idiot.
> they grew because they offered a good service
Steam only grew by having Counter Strike and Half Life 2 exclusive to steam. Without that steam would have never gotten more than 3 users.
Alright, they grew by having a servive that people liked and having products that people liked.
They still grew on their own, can you blame them for having a sense of business and for wanting to make money?
suuuuure. indie devs wouldn't profit from having existing owners get the right to write reviews on steam and have their friends see that they own the game. All they worry about is the vague possiblity of someone buying the game on steam for a second time. Suuuuure.
KSP devs strongly opposed giving out steam keys. They only did so reluctantly after a strong outcry from the community and under strict rules that you have to give up your KSP store download rights, if you retrieve the steam key.
You haven't found a single piece of evidence any evidence that steam keys are free.
Meanwhile I can continue name devs who refuse to give out steam keys to existing owners, because it would cost them money to do so.
Just shut the fuck up.
>It’s free: There’s no charge for bandwidth, updating, or activation of copies at retail or from third-party digital distributors.
Thats because /v/ is filled with people who are ideas guys. And no one wants to agree with each other OR just completely listen to the idea guy.
Now what /v/ has too much of is people trying to create their own engine, thus giving up halfway with the venture
>he has no idea about the yandere game in development
Only sells their OS bundled with hardware because they couldn't compete directly with Microsoft in the open OS market.
1% market share despite being free as in for free and freedom and better in many aspects
Welcome to the world of monopolies. Overpriced products and lack of innovation guaranteed.
Noone bothers checking for facts it seems.
This KS was one of the weirdest I've ever seen, but although they made suspicious claims and could have shown more footage and more development news there was no proof that this is a scam, most like WG self-funding, spamming their own KS to bury discussion, not explaining the low goal (they did) was slander based on speculation, not facts. And they shared the Putin letter because it was amusing, not because they believed it was legit.
If you look at the comments and update comments there's a bunch of people who has been spamming 24/24, it really attracted some retards and creeps spending their day on a crusade doing as much as possible to damage the KS. And many in the press disgraced themselves by siding with the bullies without any kind of proof.
tl;dr their KS was clumsy and most of the shitstorm could have been avoided but it was clear that they were former S.T.A.L.K.E.R devs and fair evidence that the project was legit even though once again they could have made that clearer if they had more footage
a fairly neutral article on the suspend:
What the fuck are you complaining about? Go with Linux if you like it so much, let MS have their bad business practices and let people buy or disregard their products.
I seriously don't get your complaints, there is no actual monopoly for either MS or Steam, yes both are the main player but that is because they were the best and people liked them, now they might have changed and people just don't care enough to change but there are other choices that you can have.
go sit in on a few economics classes before talking
>they were the best
they weren't. They were the first to get big.
Microsoft got big by tricking some poor schmuck into selling DOS to them for $30k and mooching off IBM's name and stupidity. (IBM never expected IBM compatibles with Windows to be legally possible)
Steam got big by buying Counter Strike.
Nothing has anything to do with actually being better than the competition
They were better than the competition, maybe not from a customer standpoint but they made choices that advanced them well from a business standpoint, they were better by cleverness.
They are businesses, they are in it for the money, that means that you'll get businesses that will make wonderful products to attract people, others will focus on PR and marketing and care less about their customer, you have to choose what you buy. But I still don't see what is the problem with either company being the biggest players in their respective fields.
But they are not monopolies, let me tell you about a monopoly, electricy in my region is provided by a governmental business, they aren't very good and they charge high. It is illegal for someone to step in and make their company and try to compete with them. That is a monopoly.
MS and Steam have the biggest market shares but are not monopolies, there is competition, there is choice and there is nothing forbiding you from making your own product.
Still, you keep repeating "they are a monopoly, they are bad" but how? People have the choice to pick other products and services the moment they aren't satisfied with either companies and so do you.
Also why stop arguing? What's wrong about having a conversation, either you get to educate what you consider a pleb (me) or I get to make you see that you're complaining for nothing.
>tfw only given to the Wakfu kickstarter
>tfw I know it is already done and we are just waiting on that new episode
>number of legitimate products in KS vastly outnumbers the scams
>"WHEN ARE PEOPLE GONNA LEARN"
If we can get stuff like pillars of eternity or divinity out of kickstarter I don't mind dealing with shit like this.
>implaying ankama didn't do a fakestarter to hype products they already had planned to sell.
Get real, nothing could be funded with their ridiculous low target price. It was all just a truck to sell you their surplus of toys 2 time the price they do in regular convention.
You can't choose another product or service in a monopoly, because there is no competition or only token competition.
Microsoft is glad Linux exists because they can claim to have competition,but in reality it doesn't work properly on most people's hardware, is difficult to come by by the average consumer and has very limited software available for it.
Same goes for Steam. There's a lot of games that are only on steam or only get visibility on steam.
The nature of these markets makes it very hard for a competitor to enter the market and thus it's easy for Microsoft or Valve to keep their market position, even if they do not offer the best product.
And this is why Kickstarter is banned in some countries. There are just corrupted faggots that ruin everything. It's better for Customers to only pay for a officical service/product, a investment.
>Gaben doesn't do shit for free. He wants 30% of a game's revenue just so he'll let people download it from his servers.
>Physical distribution is almost cheaper
Are you retarded? License fees are same if you put your games on Nintendo/Apple/Sony/Microsoft's platforms. However if you put your game phyiscal you would have to deal that, shipping fees, retailter fees, AND the toxic used game killing your games revenue.
But there actually is competition. Granted it's not a very fierced competition but there still is for any informed customer who wants the best.
So your complain about Ubunutu/Linux is that even though it has a small market share and thus logically doesn't have a big support it should have as much support as Windows or whatever OS Apple shits out? That's just silly, there isn't much software for it but when Linux becomes more popular more people will work for games and softwares on that OS. Windows is the current standard of the industry that's why there is a lot of products based on/for it, when the standards change if Apple, Linux or even ChromeOS and SteamOS gains visibility then you will have more support for other OSes.
Steam... alright, I'd like to see which games, I'm sure there are. Vavle games for one, but you would expect a company to sell directly its products, they have very little reason to offer it elsewhere and if you don't like having to deal with Steam and by extension Valve don't buy their games. Indies games I'm sure also, but unless they are some shitty flash greenlight game the devs will have a website where they sell the game directly and not with Steam. As for the rest, as I said you have to choose what you really want, are you willing to contribute to the monopoly you hate by buying a product only available there or will you stand by your beliefs and not buy it and buy your games elsewhere?
Sure, it would be best with more competition but those companies got on top by their own merit, either by cunning or offering good products and servives and others are fighting for that position, it's not an easy fight, it never is but there is competition.
They actually create the entire hardware and software platform and subsidize the hardware sales.
Valve does nothing of the sort and yet asks the same fees.
Microsoft has had a 90%+ market share in desktop operating systems for practically 3 decades and profit margins in excess of 50% for most of that time.
Why do you think not a single competitor other than linux freetards has arisen and had any success in 3 decades? Because Microsoft is so much better than anyone else?
>How many times do people have to get scammed for them to wake up?
I don't know man after seeing how double fine adventure ended and mighty no 9's "community" I finally learned my lesson.
I don't regret pledging to shovel knight and half genie hero at least.
I'm single. I already own a house (two actually if you count a cabin out in some fucking mountain I've only been in once). I literally have no use for money. I thought it was charming how the studio were tapping crowd-sourcing for an animation project.
Sound engineer. I certify theaters if they are compliant to the standards set by THX or Dolby. It's alright.
Why are single, non-married, childless bachelors always so rich?
When teachers asked me what I wanted to be when I grow up I always said the same thing
Now I'm 26 and I still believe in that shit 100%.
No, because most customers don't give a fuck.
The majority of people who use computers know very little about them either from the point of view of software or hardware (funny anecdote two weeks ago I had a friend who wanted me to review hardware for a computer he wanted to assemble, total was $1.8k with terrible parts he would have bought at Best Buy, I showed him better that costed a total $700) so most people buy a computer that is already assembled and windows comes with most of them.
As for customers who actually care and know about it, that would be an intresting figure to see, which percentage goes to product. But shortly, MS is on top with Windows because they were smart about where to put their product and how to sell it.
>Why are single, non-married, childless bachelors always so rich?
Girlfriends are expensives as hell, it is crazy how much they want sometimes. Wives are fucking worse and so is their personality. Children is the extreme, it's a drain until it leaves the house or works and you take part of its salary.
So you're left with a man who spends money on what he wants and as he chooses, he does't have to deal with the desires of a wife or a child.
In a real life contract on which you sign your name with a pen, yes.
On the internet, there's a lot less accountability. EULA's might sound self important but are in fact a lot of smoke and little to no fire.
Games are games, what is a "gamer" that's another thing, a typical "gamer" does not play farmville or bejewelled.
So if you want to get an estimate of the gamer crowd you'd better count games that are associated with them and not any game that will let you push your own agenda onto the study to have the result you want.
What do you say to your girlfriend when she asks when you two are finally going to have kids/move in together/get engaged/married?
I know this question is going to be inevitable but I've experienced that answering with "I don't ever see myself getting married" is not a good one and they have walked out on me for saying that.
I saw one that said it's around $180 000 granted the kid leaves at 18. Kids are fucking expensive.
>they have walked out on me for saying that.
That's for the best then, if you don't want to get married and have kids your relationship with that person who wants kids and get married is obviously not going to work. There is nothing much to say there except state your own desires about the relationship, if you can find some common ground good, if you can't well there isn't much use in wasting time in the relationship, she'll be stuck somewhere where she can't grow and you'll be stuck with someone who wants to drag you somewhere you don't want to go. It wasn't a good match, learn and make a better choice next time.
Also a big emphasis on common ground, I don't know what it is about women but they very often want to have the last word while men in relationships try to make it work for both, be careful about that.
>EULA's might sound self important but are in fact a lot of smoke and little to no fire.
Not in amerika though. You could get hanged for that thing and american courts treat it as a legitimate agreement.
I can't imagine leaving the Netherlands to go live in a shithole like the US. It's beyond my comprehension and if you don't mind I would like to stop talking about it now because it is making me physically sick just thinking about it..
My relationships always end long before such questions arise. Problem is also the job. 6 months in a year, I'm not at home and am traveling around US or going to Canada training new guys so they can do our job in EU for far less.
>average folk can spend 36.000 dollars a year ONLY on raising a kid and a car
>this is without all the other bullshit like gas, insurance, tax, food, electricity, house etc. etc.
>They actually create the entire hardware and software platform and subsidize the hardware sales.
You are telling me that Netflix, Hulu,etc doesn't deserve cut of their license fees for hosting games on their website? You can't run a business with 75 million install base for free.
>Valve does nothing of the sort and yet asks the same fees.
They host games on their servers, therefore need they need something to maintain that business. They can't run Steam for free, even if it was for free they would need something to maintain that organization. Non-profit organization still needs to charge you money to keep itself upfloat.
If Valves acts like Nintendo did in the 90's. third parties could easily remove their games, and perform business elsewhere likes it's N64 vs ps1. Steam does not a command monopoly, it does not stop competition.
If Valves does not insure money for Third party money and high quality service, they will end up like Nintendo did. 70% revenue is pretty good compared to retail fees.
>That's the point. Gaben controls the industry at this point.
Are you stupid? Gaben is just a smart businessman, he doesn't have any power in the industry. He is not the biggest company in the PC market. He does not command the biggest market. Steam is powerful because Valve spend ten years building that fortress from the ground up. Third party putting their games on Steam is only a result of Steam becoming most popular platform.
Sony/Microsoft have thousand, thousand times more then Vavle. Microsoft/Sony dicate where third party developers perform their business. Sony/Microsoft have made console industry a priority over the PC/Mobile market. Vita has more new developed games then Nvidia shield for example.
Valve is only worth 1 billion, they are no where near as powerful as you they are. EA could have bought Valve if they wanted to. Valve isn't even the biggest fish of the PC market either.
It isn't my own, it's the one that is in people's head.
Use common sense, when you say "gamer" what do people think of? WoW, Call of Duty, Halo, Farmville, Smurf Village, Skyrim?
If you want to say "55% of people who play video games are women," that's fine if you have the evidence to prove it but if you want to say "55% of gamers are women," then you have to show some conclusive evidence for using such a loaded word that is embeded with conotation and expect people to object to your biased study and your lack of foresight in the choice of words to deliver your results and your choice of methodology.
There is as big a difference between saying "Golden Dawn are nazis" and "Golden Dawn are national socialist" as there is between "women who play video games" and "women gamer."
>giving your money to slavs
Holy shit, how dumb can you get? Even whiteys scam with kickstarters. Giving your money to slavs = your money gone with 100% probability and you'll never see the finished product.
That's what you and I may think and the rest of /v/ but there is a whole world out there beyond our basements where women play videogames and they a lot of it. What makes them any less "gamers" than you and I? We're all walking wallets anyway to developers and publishers.
Maybe check your figures again, slick.
I just said what makes them less of a "gamer" they are people who play video games but the type of people who play exclusively games on facebook or on smartphone are not "gamers" they do not play any game that tradionally makes a gamer, hardly know about the gamer culture, about the history of video games, they only play video games.
It's somewhat like confusing "cinephile" with "someone who watches movies" both have an element in common but are also very different than the other and are from two crowds with different desires and expectations about the media they like. So you have to be careful about appealing to gamers or simply people who play video games in general.
Sure, they should make sure their devs stay on track but when a bunch of suits are using focus group studies to decide how to make a game that's not keeping a leash, that's fucking ordering them about. And as much as publishers have a right to order around their employees, they should leave developping to developpers and focus on publishing.
Vocal minority anon, people truly vote with their wallet when it comes to this and publishers listen to that. This trend of complaining about the lack of diversity is very recent in games and isn't serious, it doesn't come from the core crowd that made games grow to the industry they are at today. If so the complaints would have been there before.
The complaints are very childish and could be made with a number of different artistic media, they are not from people who appreciate games either for the gameplay or its artistic achievements, the complaints come from people who want media to catter to them, they don't want a fun game or art that challenges them.
My native language is French and since Modern English is a bastardisation of Middle French I sometimes mix some grammar rules. Also I was thought Canadian English which is a strange mix of British and American English, so more confusion with the two versions sometimes.
Luckily Netflix is a publicly traded company and it's therefore easy to know what their profit margin was last year: 2.5%
That's a sign of healthy competition. You can bet your ass Valve's profit margin is 10 times that
Me too, I wish English wouldn't have badly copied my language. Old English was kinda nice and still had a soul.
Just because they agree with or are friendly with nazis does not make them so. I am friendly towards... Spanish people, I suppose, that doesn't make me a Spaniard.
Netflix is worth way more then Valve.
You're missing the point that Vavle only really big the market of the western PC market at most. In Overseas PC market, they don't have much power over PC market.
The Other thing is that Bigger powers like Sony has taken away competition from PC market into the Console market. Steam is not the primary distribution service for third party.
This one only got busted due to how stupid the scammers were
Instead of playing it safe they went full retard and got caught.
This will be a lesson for future scammers to not get found out before getting the money
You had to be really fucking stupid to think a team of 12 were going to make an incredibly detailed open world title on just 50 grand. What's that? A salary of $4k? Wow. And an average of 60 bucks per contributor? How do these people not lose their money to 419 scams?
>it just happened
Who can I trust for gaming journalism if i can't trust forbes?
>This is what $500.000 looks like.
Oh fucking christ this is gold.
>Addressing two news sources that are unprofessional and show incredible personal bias:
>The first news site is Forbes, which was recently sold to a chinese company. They continue to report based on completely outdated information and present personal speculation as fact. They compiled a list of “red flags”, based on information spread by trolls
>We personally think that Erik Kain, the writer of the articles on Forbes, has a huge personal bias against us, and is doing everything that he can to wrongfully discredit us. His writing is the absolute antithesis of objective journalistic integrity. He is a writer who feeds on controversy, and who is making a name for himself by posting slander against Areal.
> The second news source we want to mention, is VG247, and in their most recent article, they summarize the teaser and say that our Kickstarter is, to quote, a "clusterfuck".
>Ultimately, this is a case of a coordinated effort by a bunch of trolls to do everything in their power to destroy our project. They spam every news site they see, and unfortunately, some news sites listen to them.
Oh I neglected to post this part. They went FULL damage control. But they decided to do it tumblr style. This is from their update page.
>One user on Kickstarter compiled a list of trolls that have been writing negatively about us 24/7, and we though that it's a good resource, so we're sharing it with everyone:
>"Troll Interview: http://i.imgur.com/PXXwdt8.jpg
>Eugene Kim (not from WG)http://i.imgur.com/y0UFgmX.jpg
>Raul Strugar http://i.imgur.com/Zfuuzrx.jpg
>Ahmad Khan: http://i.imgur.com/29wVmwP.jpg
>Matthew Farmery: http://i.imgur.com/epq0iK1.jpg
>Nick Evans: http://i.imgur.com/PkuL7xz.jpg
>Sander Goetzee Serrano: http://take.ms/88ym6
>Martin Raun Dragsbæk http://i.imgur.com/8kGBkIA.jpg
>Microsoft Sam http://i.imgur.com/JrGPcUc.jpg
>Artyom Andreev http://i.imgur.com/X6kydpo.jpg
>Maurice Burgmans https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/1377935168
>Judicator https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/545610824 ”
This fucking train has no god damn brakes.
>When pressed about Unity screenshots appearing on their Facebook page and similar hard questions, West Games has resorted to more accusations:
>“This is what I would say is a classic example of some individuals stirring and provoking the public. We posted a couple of memes and images that have no relation to Areal on our personal facebook page, and some people are using that against us. We’ve removed them from that page so as to not cause further misunderstandings. We have never posted screenshots of other games on our official Areal Game facebook account and on our Kickstarter. Regarding the video, we have the right to use all footage that conveys what we have accomplished in the past, which includes assets from unity.”
Its ok guys. So long as someone on the team did something for another IP owned by someone else, WE CAN USE IT TO SELL OUR UNRELATED GAME!
jesus christ. Will this ever end?
>When pressed about whether the team had dev kits for the various platforms their game is set to release on, West Games responded:
>“Those times when you needed special equipment are gone. Now it is enough to conclude an agreement with a platform holder and download developer kits as software. You can get them for yourself! But you can actually only release your product on some particular platform if you can make a decent game.”
Oh, theres more! They never intended to use this money to make the game.
Just the prototype. But they cant tell their backers that. 50k gets them a FULL GAME says those ruskies
>Backers of the project also uncovered a quote from the Russian games site Games-TV by interviewer Ilya Gorodnov who interviewed West Games’ Eugene Kim. In this comment, Gorodnov says:
>???????? ???? ????? ??????, ??? ????? ? ?????????? 50000-?? ??????? ?? ??????????? – ??? ? ?????? ??????? “????????” ??? ??????????. ??????????, ??? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ????, ????? ???????? “?????????” ??????? ????????, ?????? ??? ?????????? ???????? ???? ????????? ? ?? ???? ??????? ???????.”
>A Russian backer of Areal translates this to:
>“The game’s producer explicitly told us that the success of reaching the 50,000 mark is meant entirely to show off in front of investors. Factually, that money is needed only to attract the “real” big cash, because the development of this game of such a game would cost much more than a million dollars.”
>The Google translation at the page itself reads:
>“the game’s producer said clearly that success in achieving 50000th mark on Kickstarter – it is primarily a “window dressing” for investors. In fact, this amount is only needed in order to attract “real” great tools, because the development of such a game costs more than one million green.”
I've come to the conclusion that video game kickstarters, in general, suck.
I've started backing projects with goals that seem like they're actually achievable now.