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Why is this shitty genre so popular?
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Why is this shitty genre so popular?
When are people going to get back to playing proper RTS games and stop playing this crappy Starcraft mod that only idiots liked in the first place?
>>
never because ASSFAGGOTS is more simple and requires less (read: no) thought
>>
Why does every moba game have the same map?
>>
Is that the flag of Retardistan?
>>
>>254133568
i've always wondered this

even rats can figure out a maze, why do they give players such retarded maps
>>
At this point in the industry, developers think they could just copy successful games and reap profit. Happens more in mobile games but also happens with ASSFAGGOTS.
>>
it's all aeon of strife's fault

who made that map anyway
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>>254132757
it was mainly a warcraft mod

>>254133568
>>254133680
They share 3 lanes normally but the maps in dota and LoL differ greatly. also please don't use such a horrible word.
>>
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Jesus Christ,quit whining like a little bitch. don't play the fucking games. same thing I do. stop starting threads about something you don't like moron
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>>254133875
but other people are enjoying them too much and i don't understand why or how and it makes me mad
>>
Stay mad poorfags ull never go home with 11.3 mil in ur pockets
>>
>>254133950
I play ASSFAGGOTS, and I enjoy them.

What are you going to do about it?
>>
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>>254133950
>but other people are enjoying them too much
>>
>>254133875
Maybe if someone YOU loved fell prey to the scourge of Dota 2 addiction you'd understand.

In fact, right now, let's have a look:
>open Steam friends list
>Dota 2
>Dota 2
>Dota 2
>Dota 2
>>
>>254133950
People enjoy racing/fighting/sport games and I don't understand either, but I'm not mad. It is called personal preference and being mad about someone else's isn't doing anything.
>>
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>>254133950
>being this bad at assfagots
>>
>>254134254
you could just git gud and have fun
>>
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>>254134254
so? your not the one playing it. let them play what they want. or even easier remove them.
>>
My personal theory is that it's popular for the same reasons it's shit. Just pray that everyone grows out of it one day.
>>
>>254134254
How does your friend's addiction determine the quality of a game?

Are you actually jealous of a video game right now?
>>
>>254134436
MOBAs aren't fun.

>>254134442
I want to play other games with them, like a year ago.
>removing your face-to-face friends
>>
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>>254133568
look into super mnc
>>
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>>254134254

Name one good PC title to come out in the last year.

Hard Mode: It can't be shit you can play on a console, where you'd never see them playing it.
>>
>>254134583
dota isn't a moba
>>
>>254134442
I'm getting some serious warcraft 3 deja-vu here. And I think we all know how THAT turned out.
>>
>>254134583
>fun is subjective

Anyway, I have a friend who plays FFXIV 16 hours a day, yet I don't hate MMOs for such a silly reason.
>>
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>>254133875
>stop starting threads about something you don't like moron

Is this your first time on /v/?
>>
>>254133680
>>254133568
Mostly due to tradition.

Smite back in it's early beta had an outer jungle and had the audacity to rotate it's lanes 45 degrees because it wasn't a mod (see pic). Players from other MOBAs complained about the outer jungle and how they should just make the inner jungle more viable, and they still dislike the rotation of the map.

The amount of BRs who start feeding and complain about not knowing which lane was which because there is no top/bot and you have to base it off tower distance is silly.
>>
>>254134583
If your friends only want to play Dota, the problem is obviously with your friends, and not the game.
>>
>>254134615
Divinity:OS

boy that was hard
>>
>>254134752
Distaste is also subjective, just like how you find grinding with a single map fun.

>>254134615
Why would they only play games that have come out within the past year?
>>
>>254134619
moba = arts = dota
they're the exact same genre
>>
>>254134615
Divinity Original Sin
>>
>>254134920

He said games
>>
>>254132757
Well that's just like, your opinion man.

People who complain about MOBAs are just as cancerous as the autists that play them 24/7.
>>
>>254135076
Divinity:OS is a game

>>254135046
>>254134920
inb4 he says its shit
>>
>stop liking what i don't like, why is everyone but me retarded, etc.

quality thread OP, sure to garner much productive discussion. I hope you enjoy it.
>>
>>254134983
By your logic, basically every popular sport is "grinding with a single map"

The main game is built around that one map, and there are still alternative maps/gamemodes.
>>
>>254134983
It may be a single map, but there are many many ways to play said map.
>>
>>254135171

No, Divinity OS is a spreadsheet simulator
>>
>>254135220
>lol retards what's the fun in baseball? you're just playing on the same diamond every time.
>>
>>254135038
moba implies a game is like LoL, simplified and not exactly free to play. dota is an assfag or assfaggot
>>
>>254135272
You're going to have to better than that if you expect to hook someone.
>>
>>254135169
>someone doesn't bathe
>people complaining about stench are as bad as that guy
lol nope

ASSFAGGOTS games are for people who identify themselves as "gamers" and it says a lot.
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Babbys are mad that they were not able to get on when the ship took off.

Feels good to be playing dota from the year it was created. I don't feel left out of anything. I'm good at this game and I'm actually playing it the way it's supposed to be. Fun and competitive.

Should have use all those shitposting time to actually start and try playing it. This kind of games are not going to stop any time soon. If you're not going to join if it will be best to ignore it or be mad forever.
>>
>>254135403
No, MOBA is just a term for ASSFAGGOTs riot came up with. It has nothig to do with F2P, they're both the same fucking genre.
>>
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>tfw you lost your best friend to assfaggots

At this point I rather see him being a TF2 junkie than playing that crap all day.
>>
>>254135584
they aren't, the games are highly different
>>
The Halo of RTS. Casualized baby's first garbage of a once great genre.
>>
>>254135580
>git gud
>if you don't like it u suck
>>
>>254135547
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence
>>
>>254135220
>shit game
>no it's not shit [apparent statement of fact], your taste is subjective
>I think it's shit
>well stop thinking your opinion is fact. sports, mate. sports.
This is productive.

ASSFAGGOTs claimed many of my friends and is just one contributor to the stagnation of games. Deal with that opinion.
>>
>>254135681
No they're not.
>>
>>254133303
>RTS requires thought
lol
>>
>>254135681
Nope.
MOBA - marketing term for such games because "one unit RTS game" wasn't exactly catchy.
ASSFAGGOT - term for a game which describes target audience perfectly
>>
>>254135547
>comparing something that actively affects others to someone's taste in videogames

I don't enjoy MOBAs but I don't see anything wrong with them either. There's always a new genre "for intelligent and mature gamers such as myself". Bitching and moaning about the games won't make them go away anon, but it's a great way to litmus test your "friends" to see if they're actual gamers or not.
>>
>>254135580

>I couldn't play Warcraft III so I spent years playing shitty mods where you didn't have to do anything difficult.
>>
>>254135181
to be fair, mobashitters are usually have mental issues and a lot of them are also genetically inferior gooks and spics.
>>
>>254135749
>People who complain about MOBAs are just as cancerous as the autists that play them 24/7.

False equivalence
>>
>>254135584
we've been over this, moba is a retarded name for ANY game

>Multiplayer Online Battle Arena

it could describe pretty much any multiplayer game out there, which is why the term ASSFAGGOTS was coined in the first place
>>
>>254135808
>>sports, mate. sports.
Why are you misrepresenting my argument?

I'm not claiming that you're not entitled to your opinion.
I'm asking you to realize that it's just that, an opinion.
>>
>>254135969
>being this mad
>>
>>254135937
>>254135937
>>comparing something that actively affects others to someone's taste in videogames
Have you ever been around people who play assfaggots?
Yes, it affects everyone around.
>>
>>254136052
I'm not debating the merit of the term MOBA over ASSFAFFOTS. I'm saying that its used to describe the same fucking genre of games that both LoL and Dota are in. What's so hard for you to understand?
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>>254135991
...What?
>>
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>>254135580
>playing the same game consistently for over a decade
Nothing is that good anon.
>>
>>254136168
I have. They're the same autists who preach Dark Souls as a "mature game for mature gamers such as myself" and wear fedoras. What's your point? It's not the game anon, it's the people who play them.
>>
>can't even type basic English

Dota haters, everyone. Sorry you're not good enough to play one of the most skill-based games of all time, faggot.
>>
>>254135937
>uses "gamer" word
>defends mobas
FUCKING SUMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER
>>
>>254136223

It's a false equivalence. Do I need to spell it out for you?
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>>254134254
Oh no m-muh friends are playing that game I don't like
If they're so addicted to LoL/Dota 2 that they won't play with you they're faggots anyway.
>>254134605
>telling people to look into ded gaem
>posting that specific ded gaem
Fuck you ;_;
>>
>>254133568
Because it's perfect for Dota.
>>
>>254136089
I never claimed anything else. What you're doing is trying to chip away at my ability to hold this opinion by presenting it as if it was as a statement of fact; it was no such thing.
>>
>>254135852
The heros are different, the map is different, the game model is different and the game mechanics are very different.

>>254135931
assfag describes the game perfectly.
>>
>>254136301
>>FUCKING SUMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER
Are you 15?
>>
>>254136295
Meant for:

>>254135969
>>
>>254136301
You used the word in your greentext as well, fucking summer.
>>
>>254136052
Same thing could be said about RPGs, yet I don't see anyone bitching about that term.

You know and understand what MOBA refers to as a genre. Why are you all pissy about the name if no one (except you) is confused on what it refers to?
>>
>>254136421
>the game model is different and the game mechanics are very different.

No it's not. Both games are still Aeon of Strife Styled Fortress Assault Game Going On Two Sides, also known as ASSFAGGOTS, ARTS or MOBA, the DOTA genre
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>>254135937
>gamers
>>
>>254136301
>someone doesn't agree with my point and I can't refute their statement? fuuuukin summer!

>>254136578
I'm sorry I triggered you so hard anon, which
word would your autism prefer?
>>
>>254136421
That's like saying Halo and Goldeneye are in two different genres because "the guns are different, the maps are differnt, the modes are differnt, and the mechaics are different"
>>
So, let's talk about games that actually take a passable amount of skill. What have you guys been playing? I've been trying to git gud with Cave shmups and fighting games in general.
>>
>>254136548
>"of" isn't capitalized
>"On" is
Step up your acronyms.
>>
>>254136407
You were criticizing the use of a single map for the game, something which can be compared to the majority of popular sports.
On top of that, there are multiple additional gamemodes and maps, although they're not considered competitive.
You replied:
>>well stop thinking your opinion is fact. sports, mate. sports.

What am I supposed to tell you?
>>
>>254136250
least a little bit better than tripfagging
>>
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>>254136641
Snuffalapagus

I have standards.
>>
>>254136742
Grabbed Ultra for PC, been playing it to try and git gud.
I been playing some RTS recently, but only casual C&C
>>
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>>254132757
its a warcraft mod people played for years on end and just now has become mainstream.

noobody really made any proper rts games for quite some time without them being either dogshit tier or starcraft.
hopefully some developers will look at LoL, Dota and actually remember the RTS genre.

best part of the genre is how each dveloper goes at it and almost allof them think their unique and half of them think the rts part of the rts is what ruins it, examples being smite and that fucking amazing block of text on that dead island one which literally shits on the genre saying they prefer "good old wasd" over basic fucking rts controls.
>>
>>254136782
The first o isn't capitalized because there's no o between A and SS
>>
>>254136874
>Grabbed Ultra for PC
And how exactly are you playing it?
>>
>>254136720
They share the same base mechanics though, LoL has had many mechanics removed and dota has an interact-able environment.
>>
>>254136335
It's true though.

These shit threads prove it.
>>
>>254136742
if mobas don't take skill then why don't you play them and become rich?
>>
>>254136819
you're game a shit
>>
>I LOST MY BEST FRIEND BECAUSE HE FOUND ANOTHER GROUP OF FRIENDS HE LIKES PLAYING WITH, BAWW
The sad irony is that a good portion of you faggots are the kinda retards that bought into shit like WoW and estranged you own friends with you stupid obsession just because they realized the subscription fee was bullshit.
>>
>>254136938
Congratulatuons, you found the exact point I was making.
>>
>>254137003
What point? There's no reason to capitalize the o in "Aeon of Strife"
>>
>>254135719
>>254135949

It's not too late, kids.

Think about it for a second. Everyone and your mother will be playing MOBA in the future and you're still gonna be sitting there shitposting on /v/ on how much you dislike the genre. You're probably thinking that you don't care but look how much of a whinny faggots your are right now. It's just so sad to think that you're going to continue be like that because you're so retarded to ignore the games and the people who are playing them. Join the fun or fuck off

Mobas are gonna get bigger and there's nothing you can do about it.
>>
>majority of actual ASSFAGGOTS discussion contained on /vg/, barring the occasional thread for those who want to talk about something specific outside of the clusterfuck that is a general

>80% of the discussion about it on /v/ nowadays is autists actively going out of their way to rant and rave about how other people are playing games they don't like

>WHY IS THIS SHIT SO POPULAR

ever heard of "any publicity is good publicity?"
>>
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>>254136863
I like it.
>>
>>254136641
That guy had used "gamer" word in serious matter. He is The Summer. Probably summer 2010-2011
>>
>>254136963
I'm playing AE obviously
If you pick up ultra you get AE because it's a digital upgrade and not standalone
>>
>>254136250
You've been tripfagging for like 3 years now, man.
>>
>>254136742
>shmups
>skill
lel
>>
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>>254137109

Bedtime kid.
>>
>>254137150
>WAITING FOR OTHER PLAYER
>>
>>254136981
>These shit threads prove it.
Bait thread is shitty. Wow, who would have thunk it.
>>
>>254136982
I lack of autism.

I can spend whole days on /v/ calling people retarded but I'm far too normal to play single-unit RTS games.
>>
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>>254137182
I wish only 3 years.
>>
>>254137148
Why is your English so awful?
>>
>>254137109
I could play other games and cut off contact with friends who regularly play Mobas like I already do.
>>
>>254137340
Because I'm not native English speaker, obviously.
>>
>>254137109
I feel its just a fad, i personally don't hate or love the "genre" (its seriously just a game mode but fuck it)
but i definitely know riot are going to royally fuck up LoL to the point of breaking because how out of touch they are with how the game should be developed and take the blizzard route of game development and Dota is just going to become background buzz like counterstrike is
>>
>>254137447
Neither am I.
>>
>>254136970
LoL and Dota share the same mechanics and game model. You're still controlling 1 main hero unit, attacking each others bases, leveling up and buying items for said heroes. The differences aren't large enough to put Dota in an entire genre of its own seperate from LoL, no more than the differences in Halo from Goldeneye would seperate those games into two different genres
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>all this blind moba hate
>muh friends corrupted by the evil

Are you sure they left you for the game?

Or did you abandon them because you disliked their favorite video game? Did you insult their hobby? Did you distance yourself from them because you were afraid to associate yourself with a "lolfag" or "dotard"?

Who is more shallow?
>>
>>254132757

>Stop liking what I don't like.

I don't think there is a more perfect description.
>>
>>254136996
Actually Dotafags are WoW/EVE types.
>>
>>254136982
I really hate this argument.
>having a job that isn't fun
>>
>>254136982
>if cointoss doesn't take skill then why don't you play it and become world champion?
>>
>>254136874
>people will have nostalgia for Mobas in the future
>>
>>254137259
what
>>
>MOBAs are casual.
>I mean sure, it requires countless hours to get decent with the mechanics.
>And there are hundreds of characters and builds you need to familiarize yourself with
>And you usually need to have a 1h gap in your schedule before even starting a match.
>But it's still casual anyway!
This is what RTSfags actually believe.
>>
>>254137567
>Who is more shallow?

The one making assumtions about anonymous strangers and leaps of logic to call hatred of the game blind.
>>
>>254137567
>Are you sure they left you for the game?
Yep.

>Who is more shallow?
People who play MOBAs.
>>
>>254137509
Dota is 100% free with a cosmetic shop while LoL makes you buy heros, the models are very different.
>>
>>254137448
LoL is just a fad in the same sense that WoW was just a fad.
>>
>>254137718
>it requires countless hours to get decent with the mechanics.
Or maybe you're just slower than people who have functioning brains?
>>
>>254137567
>play Dota 2 once in a while
>friend who browses /v/ goes out of his way to shit on me every time I do
>one day, I ask him if he wants to play something
>"no"
>he hasn't played a video game in two weeks

I swear that he's the one making these threads.
>>
>>254133867
shut the fuck up, ASSFAGGOT mouth-breathing retard.
>>
>>254132757
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb19d08Lnec
>>
>>254137826
Again, the buisness model has no bearing whatsoever on what genre those games are in. Unless you think TF2 is not an FPS because it's F2P with an item shop.
>>
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>>254137718
>Pile on more shit to the pile of shit
>Takes longer to eat all that shit

>It's good 'cause there's so much, and it takes forever to get through guyse
>>
>>254137602
I really hate this argument.
>attentionwhoring on 4chan for free
>>
>>254137567
My friends literally

Literally

will not play any other game for more than 2 hours at a time. I live with them. They don't play videogames with me any more because I don't like Dota 2, even when I offer to play Monster Hunter or something.
>>
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>>254137718
>And you usually need to have a 1h gap in your schedule before even starting a match.
How does this make it less casual?

Is LFR in WoW less casual because it requires a hour of your time?
>>
>>254132757
>proper RTS games

>defense
>collect resource
>create zerg
>zerg enemy
>defense
>collect resource
>create zerg
>zerg enemy

do this until you win on every stage
>>
>>254137321
Man, do you even play TF2 anymore? Are you in uni still? I come here on and off these days, but some things never change...
>>
>>254138012
you said the game model was the same
>>
>>254137718
>I mean sure, it requires countless hours to get decent with the mechanics.

Fucking 6 buttons to press, the mechanics aren't hard. Dota 2 has a tiny bit of unit management, that's about it.
>>
>>254138072
2 hours is plenty of time to play video games.
If that's not enough, find some other friends.

Has nothing to do with the genre of game they prefer.
>>
>>254135272
That's wrong. You're thinking of EVE or actual DNS
>>
>>254138065
All posts should pertain to video games, their consoles, and video game culture. Threads should remain on topic and stay in theme with the board. Don't post off-topic garbage.
>>
>>254137718
Yeah, it's fucking stupid to say it doesn't require skill at all, but the amount of skill needed is fucking insignificant when compared to the majority of RTS games.
>>
>>254137972
its ASSFAGGOTS
>>
>>254138175
I said the game model is the same. You're arguing over the F2P model. If you don't see the difference then you might as well cut your losses short as well as save everyone else the trouble and just fucking kill yourself.
>>
>>254137718

I play dota everyday. But you gotta admit it's a fucking casual game because of how it's so accessible for everyone.

Those things that you mentioned are things that casuals are not paying attention to anyway. And there's like 70-80% of them in the MOBA community and you meet them everyday especially if you're new.
>>
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>>254138129
>implying I was ever in uni
>>
>>254138112
Despite /v/'s abuse of the word, a 'casual gamer' can be someone who has limited time.

Hence why some of these games are aiming for 20 minute matches instead of 80 minute ones.
>>
>>254137217
>you
>not retarded

toppest lel
>>
>>254134615
Banished, Gnomoria, Sins of a dark age, Endless Legends
>>
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I'm so clever.
>>
>>254137957

I have a few old "friends" who do this too.

They think I left them for dota, but it is really themselves that are to blame. And I only play the game a few times a month.
>>
obligatory
>towers are in range of eachother
post
>>
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>>254138517
>posting the edited one that shits on fighting games
>>
drafting in dota require more skill than any RTS game
>>
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>>254138517
Be careful, the asspain is on its way.
>>
>>254138606

It's even more sinister actually.
>>
>>254138707

Oh shit you're right, my bad. I didn't see arena shooters and dota/assfags were swapped
>>
>>254138642
I agree.
>>
I guarantee that people get addicted to Dota 2 because they're massive jews and the game satisfies their acquisitiveness with its constant doling-out of gold and items if you take small risks. A bit like gambling, but you don't necessarily part with any real money to fuel the cycle.
>>
>>254138412
You're right.

People who play dota 2 aren't casual gamers, that would be people like my mother on pogo. People who play it are average gamers.

And dota 2 isn't a shitty game, that would be a game like Alien Colonial Marines. DotA 2 is a average game.

Just, average. Which is why it's so popular, its good enough for the majority of people to eat up but bland enough to not scare them away.

But everything is in perspective, and there are quite a few people on /v/ that are way more hardcore than the "average" gamer so in their eyes you're a casual piece of shit ruining the RTS industry.
>>
>>254138642
finding a good job requires more skill than dota 2
>>
>>254138954
>what is networking
>>
>>254138890
>ruining the RTS industry

It's already dead.
I will keep playing ASSFAGGOTS, and your salt won't stop me.
>>
>>254133867
stop being such a fucking retard
>>
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>>254137718
Knowledge and memorization do not equate to actual skill.

'MOBA' games are so popular because any idiot can join in, learn a few things, and then play effectively.
If they can't, their team can carry them.
If they still lose, they can blame it on the other 4 downies they were grouped with

The whole genre was stale to actual players years ago with DotA. Now it's just the shitters picking up the scraps in an environment that masks their inadequacies.
>>
>>254138606
>>254138517
Where are racing games?

I like to have the speed, I like to have the power, to cruuuise the world.
>>
>>254139059
>I will keep having shit taste, you can't stop me!
Ok.
>>
>>254139059
have fun eating a BLT without the bacon lettuce or tomato =)
>>
>>254139153
>Where are racing games?

in the same camp /v/ puts sports games probably.
>>
>>254138283
>the amount of skill needed is fucking insignificant when compared to the majority of RTS games.
That's just as fucking stupid m8.
>>
>>254139181

Meanwhile the world of online video gaming, continues moving forwards with mobas leaving you behind.

How does that feel anon?
>>
>>254132757
Reminder that BW legend Idra plays Dota for six hours a day.

Reminder that Grrr, the only foreigner to win an OSL, plays Dota 2 every day.

Reminder that Destiny can get GM in SC2 but couldn't break D4 in solo que.

Reminder that Idra said TI3 was more entertaining than any SC event.

Reminder that Scarlett and Naniwa prefer Dota 2 and LoL respectively to SC2.

Reminder that SelecT tried to switch to our super easy casual game and got the shit kicked out of him until his team dropped him and he had to crawl back to SC2.

Reminder that quake legend James 2GD Harding prefers Dota 2.

Reminder that NIP players have been staying awake until the wee hours of the morning to watch the International.

Reminder that this thread is full of bitter ignorant fucks who never got above mid masters in SC2 and think they're good LOL.
>>
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>RTSfags are butthurt that their genre is dead
>They literally have nothing better to do now than piss and moan about how other games are more popular
>>
>>254139339
Amazing counter argument.

Let me respond with the same effort you did.

Nah m8 you're the one who's fucking stupid.
>>
Mobas are bland and uninteresting to me. When I play a moba, the grind pre-game makes me tired. If I don't get my grind on hard and do things pretty much perfectly, mid-game will suck and I won't have much chance to do good, so I have to hide a lot and not die, to prevent "feeding" the other team.

Shit just feels like it 'aint a game, even though it is.
>>
>>254139146
any idiot can join in and play fighting games or RTS games too, that has nothing to do with anything
>>
>>254139146
>Knowledge and memorization do not equate to actual skill.
>Knowledge
>Not an actual skill
Good one.
>>
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>>254133568

I remember Demigod had some really unique maps.

too bad that game was dead on arrival.
>>
>>254139263
Thanks, I will.
>>254139181
>taste is objective
Ok.
Be right back, playing games that aren't dead.
>>
>>254139405
>forwards
>not backwards
>>
>>254132757
I love how people call this a mod even though a mod actually implies modifying the game engine to make exist.
>>
>>254139493
>Amazing counter argument.
>Let me respond with the same effort you did.
>Nah m8 you're the one who's fucking stupid.
Wow, it's almost as if your original post had no argument whatsoever too!
>>
>>254139405
Feels like you have shit taste and need to possture with a superiority complex to protect your fragile ego
>>
>>254139480
Us RTS fans really are jealous of your ability to be easily entertained.

Such is the price of having actual intelligence and taste.
>>
I'm going to make a spreadsheet based moba that is multiplayer and fully featured. Basically is going to be the dorf fortress of Mobas.

Anyone want to help?
>>
>>254136250
>CS
>Quake
>SC:BW
>>
>>254139413
>eminder that this thread is full of bitter ignorant fucks who never got above mid masters in SC2 and think they're good LOL.

This amplified x1000.

People circlejerking the same game over and over again quake about how it is the pinnacle of PvP gaming yet never getting a tenth as good as those they're worshiping.
>>
I only play Dota 2 with a full team of friends. Playing with pubs is risking spending time absolutely miserable.
>>
>>254139413

>Reminder that SelecT tried to switch to our super easy casual game and got the shit kicked out of him until his team dropped him and he had to crawl back to SC2.

Rip Select T_T
>>
>>254139146

Skill essentially IS knowledge when you really go down to it, nigger.

Why are things hard? Because you lack the knowledge of how to do them effectively.
>>
>>254139293
Fuck that.
Imagine a racing game done by platinum. Do it.
>>
>>254139405
Well then I applaud myself for having amazing taste in a sea of shit.
>>
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>>254139694
>no argument
>b-but you didn't have one too!

Holy shit, is your entire life just on 4chan you pathetic child?
>>
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>>254139838
>>254139571
>burden of knowledge
>thinks this is a skill
>Skill essentially IS knowledge

My sides have hit Warp 10 and now occupy every corner of the universe.
>>
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>>254139742
:)))))))))))))))))
>>
>>254139742
>Such is the price of having actual intelligence and taste.

Why are you this pretentious?

I don't play video games to claim that I'm intelligent, or that I've got patrician taste.

I play video games to be entertained.
>>
>>254137972
>aeon of strife styled fortress assault game going on two

Nice work, retard.
>>
>>254139480
>dead
Don't you mean killed by casualfags and MOBA players?
>>
>>254139413
>All this starcraft
>I have good motor skills, therefore my tastes can't be shit
Starcraft is like baby 1st RTS even. The unit variety was dwarfed by TA years before it was even released.
>>
Hey moba/assfaggots/arts/"dotaclone"/"aosclone"/whateveryoucallit fans.

If your genre is so good, then why do you feel the need to defend it so valiantly?

Sounds like you're mad people don't like your shit.
>>
>>254139413
>>254139413
>Reminder that BW legend Idra plays Dota for six hours a day.
Sold himself.

>Reminder that Grrr, the only foreigner to win an OSL, plays Dota 2 every day.
Sold himself.

>Reminder that Destiny can get GM in SC2 but couldn't break D4 in solo que.
Didn't sell himself, not autistic enough to get into ASSFAGGOT.

>Reminder that Idra said TI3 was more entertaining than any SC event.
See: "Sold himself".

>Reminder that Scarlett and Naniwa prefer Dota 2 and LoL respectively to SC2.
Sold themselves.

>Reminder that SelecT tried to switch to our super easy casual game and got the shit kicked out of him until his team dropped him and he had to crawl back to SC2.
Didn't bother getting into ASSFAGGOT.

>Reminder that quake legend James 2GD Harding prefers Dota 2.
Sold himself.

>Reminder that NIP players have been staying awake until the wee hours of the morning to watch the International.
Autism.

>Reminder that this thread is full of bitter ignorant fucks who never got above mid masters in SC2 and think they're good LOL.
Same goes for lolfags.
>>
>>254139628
>semantics
You're getting left behind.
>>254139734
I wasn't the original anon
>>254139875
The small personal victories are the ones that matter.
>>
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>>254139480
>ASSfags are butthurt that their genre is dogshit
>They literally have nothing better to do now than piss and moan about how other games are less popular

>>254140040
Proof that Assfags are shitposters
>>
>>254140058
ASSFAGGOT is so stupid
ASSFAG is better
>>
>>254139694
but I wasn't the guy who responded to you

this is some other guy
>>
>>254140085
That doesn't make it any less dead.
I sure as hell don't miss the k-pop cancer.
>>
>>254132757
You know everyone loves to ignore the depth of DotA for some reason. There's a ton of shit you have to learn. From attack rates to countering heroes and yet everyone on this board shits on it because of the constant LoL vs DotA threads, that's the ONLY reason this shit posting ever started.
>>254133568
It's supposed to be a sport, you can't balanced heroes around multiple maps. They'll always be better or worse on some.
>>
>>254134046
nothing.

the same goes for someone who has incurable cancer, it doesn't matter what you do, you cant cure it.

there is nothing we can do about ASSFAGGOTS, casuals will keep playing it, no matter what, gaming is dead.
>>
>>254140092
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/86501-uc-berkeley-starcraft-class?page=15#288
>>
>>254140109
If people weren't criticizing/defending things, there would be no reason for /v/ to exist.
>>
>>254140143
>I wasn't the original anon
Doesn't change anything.
>>
>>254139551
...And get completely fucking annihilated. But glad you ignored that tiny little bit of fact.
>>
>>254139752
I'm not even kidding, I am really looking for people
>>
>>254139146
but what about the skillshots and positioning?
>>
>>254138283

What "skill" are you talking about, exactly?

Micromanagement? Yes.
Economic? Yes
Reaction? No.
Teamwork? No.
Prediction? No.
Strategy? Even.
Game Knowledge? Even.

It's a different game, therefor different skills are required to excel.
>>
>>254140040
Why does it matter if one game is more fun to watch than the other?

The Sim City franchise before the last installment and rollercoaster tycoon are considered fun to play, but are absolutely boring to watch.
>>
>>254140253
Flawless analogy, as good as the shit eater ones.
>>
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>>254140143
>The small personal victories are the ones that matter.

>You're getting left behind.

Are all Mobafags this petty and delusional?
>>
>>254134848
>people actually dislike removing the map rotation
Why? I can't stand the map not being straight.
>>
>>254140253
>nothing
You meant "make endless threads about it"
>>
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>>254134428
>being bad at ASSFAGGOTS
>something possible
>>
>>254139480
>RTSfags are butthurt that their genre is dead
It doesn't matter. RTS games reached hights no MOBAs can aspire to.
>>
>>254139413
>Reminder that BW legend Idra plays Dota for six hours a day.
Renown for rage quitting at infantry toss rush in BW (because he is da legend). Seriously, he was joke even before he went to SCII.

>Reminder that Grrr, the only foreigner to win an OSL, plays Dota 2 every day.
No idea who the fuck that is so I am to assume a SCII player, which means he'd get scrubbed out so hard in BW.
>Reminder that Destiny can get GM in SC2 but couldn't break D4 in solo que.
Reminder he couldn't get above C- in BW.


>Reminder that Scarlett and Naniwa prefer Dota 2 and LoL respectively to SC2.
Honestly are you going to talk about a good player?

>Reminder that SelecT tried to switch to our super easy casual game and got the shit kicked out of him until his team dropped him and he had to crawl back to SC2.
He's better than all those listed so far but the GLSL pros just dominate him.
>Reminder that quake legend James 2GD Harding prefers Dota 2.
American. Quake Legend. You're hilarious.

>Reminder that NIP players have been staying awake until the wee hours of the morning to watch the International.
Still looking for a reason to care.
>Reminder that this thread is full of bitter ignorant fucks who never got above mid masters in SC2 and think they're good LOL.
Strawmans.
>>
>>254140143
Sometimes being left behind isn't a bad thing, man.
>>
>>254139838
>>254139571
If you need an example of why you are incorrect, watch DSP play a video game.
>>
>>254140264
>http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/86501-uc-berkeley-starcraft-class?page=15#288
>Starcraft is starcraft and nothing can compare to it because it is unique
Stopped reading there.
>>
>>254140264
>Blatant, blind SC fanboyism
>Does nothing to disprove his point
TA was a vastly superior RTS. Problem is it had zero marketing and was outshined by SC, despite it being an inferior game. Much like Betamax was beat out by VHS despite being better equipment, so RTS has not gone the way of massive scale, true-to-life battles, but has instead crunched itself into the arena of RTTs and MOBAs, never to rise again.
>>
Alright.

League of legends was released 2009.
Heroes of newerth was released 2010
Dota 2 (beta) began 2011

Assuming that MOBA popularity didn't kill off RTS games right away, what good RTS games were released before 2012?
>>
>>254138283
How? You have to be aware of the map, what your team is doing, what your team picked, what the enemy picked, what the enemy bought, where they're going, what you're doing and how you should react within crucial second amongst 9 other people in a small area. Why is an RTS more difficult? Because I have to micro and army about? Pull some units back and put others in? Scout out their units and counter while building a new base and managing resources? Yeah sure, but comparing them while saying one requires SO MUCH MORE is retarded.
>>
Alright, I'll just pop the fact already.

Dota 2 takes more skill than any FPS. The amount of knowledge along with the amount of adaptability needed to perform in infinitely different scenarios trumps twitch reactions.

Prove me wrong, you honestly can't. Like really, it's isn't a fucking sport for nothing.
>>
>>254140567
LOL U DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO GRRR IS GET THE FUCK OUT.
>>
MOBAs are alright and fun as fuck to play with friends.

I don't understand this elitism /v/ has. If you don't like it, that's chill, little homie but don't be a jive turkey and ruin another little homie's fun just because they curved ya.
>>
>>254139146
Here's the shittiest argument of them all, that memorizing and learning do not mean you've acquired a skill. I don't know how you can BE so stupid.
>>
>>254139571
If DSP can beat dark souls, then no, experience is not a qualifier.

Clearing a camp the second it comes up doesn't make you fast. It means you knew ahead of time where to be. Not a skill.
>>
>>254136742
Playing Ikaruga like crazy, Touhou (especially 11), SSFIVU and ASSFAGGOTS.
>>
>>254140565
literally what

Almost no one knows about your hipster game. How does that make you feel?
>>
>>254139146
So because your whole experience is at the bottom of the bracket where everyone is ignorant of their team or their inability, that makes the genre shit.
>>
>>254140680
casual RTSs, just like I've been saying for years.
>>
>>254140821
I just looked. Grrrr.... played against fucking nobodies. He was before BoXeR even existed in the pro scene.
>>
>>254138190
>the best heroes that have won people hundreds of thousands of dollars at TI4 are literally press R to win.
>>
>>254139901
>Holy shit, is your entire life just on 4chan you pathetic child?
Holy shit, if your this retarded on the internet, I'd hate to see you in real life anon!
>>
>>254140329
>implying I can posture with this bad back
>>254140474
Seems to me that mobas are and have been the popular kid on the block for the competitive scene for quite a long time now.
>>254140615
Very true.
>>
>>254140720
>You have to be aware of the map, what your team is doing, what your team picked, what the enemy picked, what the enemy bought, where they're going, what you're doing and how you should react within crucial second amongst 9 other people in a small area. Why is an RTS more difficult? Because I have to micro and army about?
Scale. Compare SC 4v4 matches to any MOBA 4v4 match.
>>
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>>254140773
>Dota 2 takes more skill than any FPS

And stopped reading there. Opinion discarded
>>
>>254139752
How idea men work:
You create the base game, it can have shitty models and shit tier every but the base gameplay needs to be there.
You THEN start asking for help after showing you're committed and can complete it.
>>
>>254140031
>burden of knowledge
Life's a burden of knowledge you fucking cunt.
>>
>>254140684
Before 2012?
>WiC
>CnC
>Supcom
>TA
>Total War
>EndWar
>Act of War
>Real War
>Company of Heroes
>Men of Valor
>Army Men:RTS
>Axis and Allies RTS
>Homeworld
>SoaSE
>Nexus:TJI
That was simple. Next.
>>
>caring about esports and ecelebs
I'm disgusted by starcrap and dota fans equally.

Sure you can say who has more viewers or who has bigger prize pots, but the people who play vidya professionally don't have fun with it. I tried it with two games in the past but had to stop because I couldn't enjoy the games I loved.

That should probably be the biggest video game taboo, intentionally turning something you love into something you can't have fun with.
>>
>>254132757
When wiill RTS stop being about clicking sonic fast?
>>
>>254136742
I was playing UMvC3, and SSFIV there for a while. Otherwise I've been pretty dead in the skill department.
>>
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>>254141118
>Life's a skill

What a stupid cunt you are
>>
>>254140881
Don't those just require good muscle memory/memorization?
>>
>>254141119
>Next

I've never heard of any of those having a pro scene anon.

try again
>>
>>254141119
WiC is so seldom talked about it hurts, especially since it was cloned so much. Also fuck EndWar. It just wants to be WiC.
>>
>>254141130
>I'm a joyless, autistic shitter so everyone else must be, too!

seriously reds why the fuck are you even still here, kill yourself
>>
>>254141078
>couldn't git gud

lel

if it takes no skill, why don't you play it and become a god?
>>
>>254141070
Yeah and the scaling down retains the amount of skill required because you're managing yourself and your abilities. Those four abilities and where you are on the map, what you're doing are so crucial at all times. You can't just ignore that.
>>
>>254135171
You don't understand, he's typical consolefriend faggot.
If it ain't TPP corridor shooter/slasher/whatever it's not a game.
>>
>>254141130
>using the word 'eceleb' while being a tripfag

There, I gave you attention, does that make you feel good?
>>
>tfw me and my friends are rich enough to play new games every week and dont have to waste our time on poor fags games like mobas, TF2 and f2p mmo

feelsgoodman.jpg
>>
>>254136502
>Same thing could be said about RPGs, yet I don't see anyone bitching about that term.

First day here?
>>
>>254141234
>I'll take moving the goalposts for 500, Alex.
>>
>>254141382
iktfb
>>
>>254141230
Yeah, they're complete shit. I should start getting on playing your favorite genres.
>>
>>254134848
I really miss outer jungle, the game stopped being fun shortly after it.
Or I've just got bored of it.
>>
>>254140684
DotA1 was released much earlier and started to kill warcraft 3, 90% of bnet was dota games that you couldn't even join unless you downloaded the map from some website because the community was so ADHD ridden that they can't wait 30 seconds for you to download a fucking map because they would kick you and message you about how you're on the blacklist for being a noob that didnt get dota from getdota

Even from day 1 the dota community was fucking cancer. They were hated on /v/ for the longest time until HoN and League started.
>>
>>254141113
>I have this really awesome Idea for a book. I just need you to write it, and I'll even give you 10% of the profit.
>>
>>254141057
Seems to me that you're completely new to comp scene and video games in general. I mean seriously, look at what you posted. "You're getting left behind" how the fuck is that NOT petty bullshit? You're defending the fucking Sarcastaball of video games under the guise of popularity.
>>
>>254141295
>Cloned
Are you talking about the RUSE series and its spinoffs? Since I've never seen another modern-day RTT other than WiC. Especially with that level of interactivity.
>>
>>254141506
>being this defensive
All I was getting at is they aren't the epitome of skill.
>>
>>254141210
that's not what I said? I said that your whole life will be the burden of learning new things. Are you dumb? Do you need to LEARN reading comprehension or is that too much a burden
>>
>>254141478

A common argument in these threads are that dota killed off the RTS scene. You listed a bunch of old ass games before any of the current ones were even released that had already bloody died.
>>
>>254141308
>Joyless
>my post is all about how I prefer to have fun
The fuck?
>>254141381
How is this related to video games?
>>
>>254141341
>hurr git gud

You're just a broken record at this point.

Using your own logic, if FPS takes less skill then why haven't you become a god and the best fps player in the world?

That's what I thought, opinion discarded.
>>
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>2014
>there are people on /v right now who dont recognize dota2 as the greatest game ever made
>>
>>254141547
>It's a fantasy about dragons, get this, with zombies in the future!
>Go make it
>>
>>254141541
The point of kicking you is that there's less a chance you'd be new to the game, retard. But I agree I'd much rather have played something else once in a while.
>>
>>254140684
>what good RTS games were released before 2012?
Holy fucking shit how can anyone be this fucking stupid
>>
>>254141732
How is your tripcode related to this thread?
>>
>>254140680
There's nothing to dispute. TA was never played on a high level. Nobody cared enough about it to figure it out. You can't compare a game that consisted of a bunch of kids fucking around and playing suboptimally with a highly refined game.

It's like when people say they prefer Age of Empire 2 to SC, when their only experience playing Age of Empires 2 online was fucking around in team games when they were 12, playing without hotkeys, being insanely inefficient with macro, not even trying to micro.

Comparing SC to any other RTS except WC3 is like comparing a professional game of football with linesman, referees, coaches, set pieces and strategies with a free-for-all on the primary school playing field. Incomparable. If TA was ever pushed to the limits like SC was it would probably have ended up like Age of Empire competitive: highly boring because all the fun stuff is actually inefficient, and only a very thin slither of all those units would have been used.
>>
>>254141541
>They were hated on /v/ for the longest time until HoN and League started.

top kek, no they fucking weren't you revisionist tumblr faggot
>>
>>254141604
I'm talking about style of gameplay (no base building/resource gathering). While I realize games like RUSE and EndWar had resources, their focus was just as much combat oriented as WiC's was, and that my friend is what the point of WiC is.
>>
>>254136502
>Same thing could be said about RPGs, yet I don't see anyone bitching about that term.
Haha.
http://insomnia.ac/commentary/on_role-playing_games/

It's not perfect definition either - most stealth games(especially older Hitman games) would also be "RPG" if we'd judge by this definition and guess what - it wasn't intended.
>>
>>254141732
>How is this related to video games?

How is your post related to video games?
How is the inevitable response related to video games?
How is your trip related to video games?
>>
>>254141662
>that's not what I said? I said that your whole life will be the burden of learning new things.
No, you literally said
>Life's a burden of knowledge
>Skill essentially IS knowledge

Are YOU dumb? That you think knowledge itself is a fucking skill, you don't have a shred of reading comprehension.
>>
literally every single DotA detractor in this thread is a retard who got mad that they got killed by Riki and Drow so many times that they gave up
>>
>>254141625
I'm on /v/, I'm not expecting any reason from anyone. And why are you even getting to the point of saying they're not the fucking epitome of skill for no reason? Are you a fucking moron?
>>
>>254141701
>Scene
Stop using words you don't understand, faggot. MOBA's didn't kill the RTS "scene" as there wasn't a reliable pro RTS "scene" to begin with. MOBAs killed off RTS as a GENRE, you retarded assclown. Also, did you even read the thread or did you just snipe me to feel good? Read the post I was responding to.

>Alright.

>League of legends was released 2009.
>Heroes of newerth was released 2010
>Dota 2 (beta) began 2011

>Assuming that MOBA popularity didn't kill off RTS games right away, what good RTS games were released before 2012?

This anon was specifically asking for RTSes released prior-2012. Not my fault you're such a babby that anything older than six months is "ancient".

>>254141869
Are there other modern-day RTTs out there? I haven't really seen any.
>>
>>254140158
>They literally have nothing better to do now than piss and moan about how other games are less popular
Why would MOBAfags piss and moan about other genres being less popular?

You're a silly, silly man.
>>
>>254136996
I'm not. I just want to play videogames which don't cause myfriends to sperg out at me about "mih meta". I just want to talk shit and play VIDEOGAMES

Never played WoW btw
>>
>>254142006
>GIT GUD
>IF YOU HATE DOTA U SUCK

Broken record.
>>
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>>254141801
How dare someone be new.

They were new once, Shirley.
>>254141791
You sound like a halofag.

Stop it.
>>
>>254134848

How does the rotation of the map actually matter in a 3rd person game
>>
>>254141625
Sorry, m8. I've been on the edge.
>>
>>254141809
>hurr durr mobas killed RTS

Gave you a chance to list good RTS games and so far, it's all be old shit that died on itself.

>>254141541
>Dota bots

Blame Blizzard for that one.

>90%

Over exaggeration.
>>
>>254140720
>You have to be aware of the map
>You have to be aware of the map
>You have to be aware of the map
The mental gymnastics on these people.
I'm sure none of them actually played RTS games other than duplo starcraft crap.


>thread
Starcraft is to the RTS genre as mac is to computers. WC3 was much better, in every possible way.
>>
>>254142132
You're a tripfag.

Stop it.
>>
>>254142156
>I get to choose what's good and what's not! Even though I shit on all RTS games because I'm an elitist faggot with a thyroid problem!
>>
>>254137567
My friends only want to play ASSFAGGOTS or rarely DayZ:SA (which they manage to ruin with their meta-autism)
>>
>>254137567
>Who is more shallow?
People who autistically play one and the same game for years and refuse to play anything else I guess.
>>
>>254134254
>Opening Steam friends list
>Nothing
>Try to talk to someone
>stfu I am playing league
>Is a hologram
>>
>>254141974
How exactly do you develop a skill such as cooking? Is it by LEARNING what stuff goes to together? How about painting? Is it about LEARNING color theory, shading, perspective, etc?

I don't get how you can't see that skills are learning, they're knowledge. You need to KNOW things in order to DO things. That's the point of college. To work toward a skill. You become a SKILLED doctor by LEARNING about diseases and treatments.

Please, please kill yourself.
>>
>>254142030
Halo Wars unfortunately exists (to name one off the top of my head), Sid Meier's Gettysburg (and holy shit this game is amazing; ancient as well so this isn't actually answering your question), Men of War, CnC4, and Dawn of War 2.
>>
>>254142334
Sounds like you're describing RTSfags, who refuses to play anything but RTSs since no other genre in the universe takes any skill whatsoever.
>>
>>254142157
>disregarding 90% of his post to cherrypick one thing
>no actual counter argument
>>
>>254141854
Yeah they were. The spearhead complaint was always about how 5v5 every game is always a fucking clusterfuck of people who can't possibly have the same skill level.

And hey, the only thing that changed is that its not the dotards making this complaint.
>>
when you stop being butthurt
so never
>>
>>254142334
This. Anybody who says otherwise is an asscan and should be shot.

>>254142412
CnC4 was an RTT? Sweet mother of all that's holy, EA really kills everything, doesn't it?
>>
>>254142387
>doctor
>taking skill
lel
>>
>>254142157
You picked one thing out of the whole instead of taking the combined skill and comparing it. You're a fucking child.
>>
>>254142132
why dont you respond to these posts you pussy ass bitch
>>254138065
>>254138519
>>254141834
>>254141918
>>254142249
>>
>>254142468
>I'm rubber and you're glue! Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you!
When you get off the playground, let us know, kiddo.
>>
>>254142387
>You become a SKILLED doctor by LEARNING about diseases and treatments.
Learning part is just for the identification of diseases; the treatment part comes from being an orderly for like 6 years before becoming doctor.
>>
>>254142468
Not really. I just refuse to play ASSFAGGOTS
>>
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>>254142387
>Equating learning to play Dota to studying how to become a doctor or a painter

Holy fuck you faggots really are delusional.
>>
>>254142006
I just imagine a bunch of plat/diamond leaguers who think their 125 apm makes them god tier gamers.
>>
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>>254142030
>MOBAs killed off RTS as a GENRE

You listed 15 games, most released before 2010 (4 years ago) before mobas were a thing.

RTS didn't die because mobas, i died because it was shit.
>>
>>254136982
>Muh metagame
I'd rather flip burgers and earn more. Assfaggots don't take much skill, but they still need your full attention if you want to git gud.
>>
>>254141854
I have the evidence of being in archived threads and I can safely say they were hated.
>>254141918
>How is your post related to video games?
I was talking about how playing video games professionally takes the fun out of them?
>How is the inevitable response related to video games?
I mentioned how I was talking about how playing video games professionally takes the fun out of them?
>How is your trip related to video games?
Reliable Ecchi Deliverer Sniper
R_____ E___ D______ Sniper
RED Sniper

Did I just blow your mind?
>>
>>254142048
>Why would MOBAfags piss and moan about other genres being less popular?
Inferiority complex over being a relatively new but easy genre, so they need to make sure that every other comp genre knows it's inferior. Why would other genres be any worse based on popularity?

You're silly.
>>
>>254141026
>i just looked


AHAHAHAHAHA

Thanks for confirming my suspicions that the SC shitters in this thread are just gold leaguers who didn't even play BW.

Get out of this thread.
>>
>>254142295

I actually happen to play quite a few of them, so i know the online is pretty dead.
>>
>>254142594
Because the way you deal with attention whores is by ignoring them.
>>
>>254142658
In that time you're doing what? Absorbing some kind of experience and knowledge from those around you?
>>
>>254142295
>with a thyroid problem!
What are you talking about?
>>
>>254142524

>CnC4 was an RTT? Sweet mother of all that's holy, EA really kills everything, doesn't it?
To me the most insulting part is how refined the gameplay was in CnC3. They didn't really have to improve on anything and it would have been a great game.
Also the story is ass. Don't mouse the next part if you don't want to know; Kane has left earth through a scrin portal and the scrin don't even show up save for two missions.
>>
>>254142387
>How exactly do you develop a skill such as cooking? Is it by LEARNING what stuff goes to together? How about painting? Is it about LEARNING color theory, shading, perspective, etc?
No, no, no and no. You PRACTICE. At best, you're applying knowledge. For example, painting is mostly muscle memory, an has nothing to do with knowledge.
>>
>>254142736
How is your trip related to this thread?
>>
>>254142694
>I get to arbitrarily change the qualifications of my list midway and nobody can say anything about it!
Nah, fuck you, you're a cunt.
>>
>>254138072

maybe you're fat and smell bad
>>
>>254142525
Yeah, that's why everyone is able to be a doctor, huh? Fucking braindead retard.
>>
>>254142674
I was equating learning and memorizing equaling the attainment of skill to LEARNING AND MEMORIZING TO ATTAIN A SKILL. Your green texting logical fallacies won't get you far.
>>
>>254142387
Being able to cook, applying paint in an aesthetically pleasing manner, or administering medical treatment are skills. The knowledge itself is not. If you don't see the difference then you might as well cut your losses short as well as save everyone else the trouble and just fucking kill yourself.
>>
>>254142991
Everyone doesn't have a daddy that can pay for college.
>>
>>254142878
Unfortunately, attentionwhores like yourself will keep trying.
>>
>>254142890
You're practicing your medical skills with an experienced member (who may actually suck) watching you so you don't theoretically kill someone. Execution is skill. Knowledge is knowledge.
>>
>>254142736
>How is your post related to video games?
It was your post about asking anon how is post was related to video games.
>>
>>254142848
Wait, if you don't know who Grrr is then you never played BW?

I played brood wars and I don't know who Grrr is.
>>
>>254143002
No, you're straight up equating knowledge to skill. Arguing semantics won't get you far you pedantic cunt.
>>
>>254134043
this
>>
>steer away from MOBAs
>friends start playing League
>ignore them
>friends start playing Dota
>tell me it's leaps and bounds better than League and invite me to join them
>try out a new genre with friends, why not
>spend time showing me the basics
>all five of us are now playing and learning together

We're still not even that good, but it's been heaps of fun. Why do you all have to be so bitter?
>>
>>254143075
Becoming a doctor in a country like Denmark is free, yet they're just as rare as in any other country.
>>
>>254142848
I'm sorry I'm not familiar with the nobodies of SCII/BW. I remember that time I used that famous GRRR... build to win the game.
>>
>>254142878
OH SNAP
>>254143093
You just got schooled man.
>>
>>254143112
>I played BW custom games on battlenet

fixed
>>
>>254143183
this
>>
>>254142939
Yeah practicing and using the knowledge you already have to acquire more knowledge. Diminishing returns applies but total knowledge adds up to how skillful you are along with what your body has 'learned' in muscle memory.
>>
>>254142972
>genre died before the genre that was blamed for killing it was around
>>
>>254142679

more like gold
>>
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>RTS genre is a cadaver
Have you guys burned the ashes yet?
>>
>>254143220
What?
>>
>>254137602

I bet your work at a fucking grocery, if you even have a job
>>
>>254143108
Well how about that anon tell me how his post was related to video games?
>>254143093
You call me the attention whore and yet you made a post asking me to respond to you?
>>
>>254143197

>0 denies everywhere

league shitters confirmed
>>
>>254143227
Whats wrong with playing BW games on battlenet?
>>
>>254139623
>muh subjective fun
>Be right back, playing shit games

Ok.
>>
>>254143461
You tell me how your post was related to videogames and I'll tell you why mine was.
>>
>>254143317
>implying a shitty gold leauge SC2 player wouldn't stomp most ASSFAGOTS at their own game.
>>
>>254143302
RTS became casualized for a time. esports was the final kick to the head.
>>
>>254143461
I didn't make the post asking for responses.

Anonymous is not one person.
>>
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so /v/ when did you grow out of RTS and Mobas and start playing TBS?
>>
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Football is fucking dead. It's a cadaver. Meanwhile the world of competative sports, continues moving forwards with Sarcastaball leaving you behind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpV852GDbGQ

How does that feel anon?
>>
>>254143608

yes that was what I implied
>>
>>254143608
I came to Dota 2 as a gold league SC2 player and it took me just over 2 years to break 4k.

Yeah buddy.
>>
>>254142387
>Cooking
Cooking is not a skill, its a technique. Its a list of simple commands that don't require you to be a good at anything. Can you pour water? Can you measure shit? Basic maths? It requires you to 'not fuck up' to be 'good'

Its like saying turning on the car, and driving it are skills that require the same level of merit.
>You gotta find the right key mang, otherwise you look like a fucking idiot, and if you stare at them too long looking for the right one, you get a lot of weird looks...

>painting
You just don't know WHAT you're talking about with this one.
>>>/ic/

>>254142479
Im not interested in arguing with you. Its why I refer to you in the third person. I just found that fucking hilarious that map awareness has been reduced to knowing what the a minimap is, and placing persistent, invisible wards that last for minutes, and are very cheap. Nobody thinks witch doctor scouting is hard, faggot. Even Far Seeing is more skill oriented, because you need to be able to predict when and where to look. Map awareness used to involve cost/reward scouting, that had you making meaningful choices every second.

Almost none of your choices in DOTA matter, or if they do, its about not fucking up that grocery list you lifted off the internet.

If I wanted to argue with you, I could just point out more-than-one-unit > one-unit.
>Muh skillful plays
You are playing a game that uses fucking diablo controls. Have some self awareness.
>>
>>254142736
>>254142878
All you do is shit post. You go into threads and bitch about halo like anyone gives a shit and ask "how is this related to videogames?" when making post like that is not related to videogames.
>>254143461
>You call me the attention whore and yet you made a post asking me to respond to you?
>made a post asking me to respond to you
Is not every post on this board "asking to be responded to"?

Also you are a hypocrite, you complain about ecelebs when you are trying to be one by using a tripcode
>>
>>254143835
>My personal ancedote is evidence that proves you wrong!

Ok buddy.
>>
>>254143562
>Whats wrong with playing BW games on battlenet?
Whats wrong with Dota 2?
>>
>>254143631
>for a time

How many years was it?

I would say it was for the past 20 years and only a few games were an exception.

Most RTS games are casual bar the exceptions anon.
>>
>>254143835
> 2 years
How could you tell what your MMR was before the ranking system was added?
>>
>>254143845
Man you deserve a better board than here.
>>
>>254142387

Oh god, just kill yourself.
>>
>>254143910
I'm also friends with a mid masters zerg who can't break 3.5k after 2 years.

Mad yet?
>>
>>254143910
How is a baseless assumption on any better?
>>
>>254143562

It's not ICCUP, that's what's wrong with Battlenet.
>>
>>254143858
Not him, but that guy made a post to ask him to respond to other posts. About him complaining about e-celebs with a tripcode, I think thats the joke.
>>
>>254144018
Dotabuff Rankings and the fact that my games showed up in medium bracket for an eternity, which is sub 3k.
>>
>>254143296
So, by your own admission, knowledge is not the same thing as skill? Glad we cleared that up.
>>
>>254144119
Nah, you are just a fucking idiot if you think ancedotes mean anything.
>>
>>254143997
>Most RTS games are casual
most video games in general are casual, what is your point
>>
>>254143997
>How many years was it?
'06 to '08.

For a few years they tried to make them multiplat, which meant new titles like Supcom 2 had to be sold to a simpler crowd. Then C&C 4 came around which was a total mess.

Blizz learned early that there was money to be bade in esports. Fast forward a few years and the community is dying from a lack of natural growth.
>>
>>254143845
I didn't make the original post, I just called you out on disregarding 90% of it.
>>
What an awful thread.
>>
>>254133875
But if we werent allowed to complain there wouldnt be any point in having /v/.
>>
>>254144215
Whats ICCUP?

I bought and played brood wars for about 3 years, always on Bnet. Isn't ICCUP that thing you have to download a free version of brood wars to use?

I actually spent money on the game, I think that makes me a bigger fan than ICCUP players.

Though I could be wrong, as I said, I never messed around with that shit.
>>
>>254144282
>any gold leaguer would stomp dota 2
>here are some decent sc2 players that are shit at dota after playing it for year
>f-f-fuck ur statistics bro

These posts by smug SC2 players are so funny. I would literally pay money to watch you try to play BW.
>>
>>254144460
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thfKq71cNZM
>>
>>254144460
ICCUP is a custom ladder. It also shows how scrubby SCII is compared to BW since most GM of SCII are ranked C to B in ICCUP.
>>
>>254136250
>>playing the same game consistently for over a decade

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTSqy48vSEY
>>
>>254133875
>stop making bait threads
Not going to happen. This thread has reached nearly 400 replies and OP's troll bait is successful.
He will create this thread again tomorrow, or someone else in his stead.
>>
>>254144439
It's the /v/ equivalent of hating Justin Bieber.
>>
>>254144439
Welcome to ASSFAGGOTS.
>>
>>254144460
ICCUP was where everyone who was remotely good at SC played.

The average D- player would win 95/100 melee games on battlenet.
>>
>>254142468
You haven't met to many RTS fags didn't you?
Even when it came to RTS games alone there was large difference in gameplay between Homeworld, Rise of Nations, Starcraft, Warcraft 3 and Close Combat(for example) and RTS players that I knew who didn't sperged on starcraft/warcraft usually enjoyed variety of different games - actual strategies(combat mission, steel panthers etc.), RPG's(especially the ones that required some tactics), point and clicks etc. They liked their comfort zone but weren't afraid to get out of it, or at least they've managed to go on its border.

ASSFAGGOTS players are different, "pro" players are usually starcraft dropouts that didn't liked SC2 or Warcraft3 addicts, casuals play it just like they've played CoD earlier on - there would be no other game for them anyway, yet it lured people who normally were like "Strategy? Nah" and they've found their "best gaem". These rarely leave the game they haunt and their comfort zone is surprisingly small and they're afraid to make even one step inside or outside of it.
>>
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>>254144551
>>here are some decent sc2 players that are shit at dota after playing it for year
>>f-f-fuck ur statistics bro
Wow you are beyond retarded. You didn't mention any "decent sc2 players" you lying fuck, it was literally a personal ancedote

>I came to Dota 2 as a gold league SC2 player and it took me just over 2 years to break 4k.

How the fuck is that statistics you childish idiot?
>>
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>>254144315
>lack of competition = lack of playing
>>254144421
To me it seems like the genre died a long time ago.

Not that many RTS games as a whole, especially when you compare it to other genres.
>>
>>254145058
I agree with you
>>
>>254144842
Literally every single friend I have that plays dota or league plays other games. I can't take these posts seriously.
>>
>>254144748
So you admit that Mobas are to video games as Justin Beiber is to music?
>>
Comparing ASSFAGGOTS to RTS is like comparing old isometric cRPGs to hack-n-slash RPGs. Completely different and very little parallels between them barring camera and controls.
>>
>>254145058

wow your opinion seems bad to me but you're entitled to believe it and I respect our differences
>>
>>254144024
it doesn't exist.
>>
>>254145151
Epic counter point anon!
Serious note, that would be wow or cod
>>
>>254144792
Well I guess I'm shit at a game who limits your unit count.

Starcraft fans are so hypocritical
>STARCRAFT IS BETTER THAN <insert rts that has a unit cap higher than 200> CAUSE IT FORCES YOU TO THINK WITH FEWER THINGS
>STARCRAFT IS BETTER THAN <insert assfaggot here> CAUSE IT FORCES YOU TO THINK WITH MORE THINGS
Fuck that noise.
>>254144842
>gotten tired enough to the point where I can't read that small wall of text
Time for asmr videos then bed
>>
>>254143845

Exactly where can I find this grocery list you mentioned?

Does it give clear and concise instructions on how to stop a deathball push at all stages of the game and with all possible heroes?

Does it instruct me on how to draft? And what to do when the enemy switches up their lanes when I counterpick?

Does it show me the exact locations of all the spots the enemy team has warded? And how to de-ward them with a very limited gold pool?

What do I do if the enemy team is reading the exact same grocery list I am?
>>
>>254145298
That wasn't a counter point. I'm just pointing out you're putting Justin Beiber and MOBA in the same catagory of quality, which I agree with.
>>
Love the frustration of SC2 babies in this thread.
>>
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>>254145189
This nigga gets it. It's really hard to compare them.
>>
Starcraft 2 is ok (just kidding, it's shit), but I wish Blizzard had manned up and released Starcraft Broodwar HD.
>>
>>254144842
>"pro" players are usually starcraft dropouts that didn't liked SC2
So who in TI4 is a starcraft dropout?
>>
>>254145189
You're so full of shit i can smell it over standard TCP/IP. Dota is just a simple mod of WC3. It like claiming Doom wads are totally separate games.
>>
>>254145463
Let them have their time. It's only fair when your genre is a tombstone.
>>
>>254145189
>Every mechanic from dota outside the fucked store is present in the main game, including camps, champions, deny, vision, turning and the control scheme
>Iz TOTALLY different guys, TRUST me.
You keep telling yourself that you fucking faggot.
>>
>>254145298
Thats CoD. WoW is more like elevator music.

assfaggots are dubstep.
>>
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>>254145463
>implying I even like SC2
>implying I'm not enjoying the delicious salty tears of Mobafags ITT
>>
>>254145654
>i dont want new content, i just want same old content with prettier graphics
halo fans = dota fans
>>
>>254145436
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dota+2+guide
>>
>>254145686
Mechanics are different. There's a minigame in SC2 where you control a spaceship using cursor buttons. Do you think that's same genre as SC2, too?
>>
>>254145725
the amount of fags who use dubstep on their epic mlg dota videos is sickening
>>
I like MOBAs and RTS games, and fighting games. And competitive shooters.

You faggots are so petty its ridiculous. They're all games revolving around different things.
>>
>>254145189
>old isometric cRPGs to hack-n-slash RPGs
>Completely different and very little parallels

You mean isometric hack-n-slash RPGs? Because at the begginig there really wasn't much difference between the two, the biggest divergence was in combat going from turn based to real time clickfests. They're very comparable, Dota games are just a subgenre of RTS and always has been.
>>
>>254145859
He's talking about a definite guide, this is just a bunch of people's opinions that sometimes are right sometimes not.
>>
>>254145686
>NAW MAN, THEY DIFFERENT
Mobas are why /pc/ /console/ wouldn't work anyway. They refuse to accept that they might just be strategy noobs, hamstringing themselves by focusing on single units.

>But thats what makes it an assfaggot.

No, that just makes it dumb. People use runes anyway, which means you're still micromanaging units. Meepos whole shtick is micro.
>>
>>254145721
And despite that they play completely different, so comparing them as if they might as well be the same genre is something that only super retards should do.
>>254145686
>murder at panda mansion is a fucking watered down RTS for CASUSAALSLS!
This is what you sound like. Are you going to start making threads about how Uther Party ruined gaming permanently or some shit? Dumbass.
>>
>>254145868
Are you referring to a shoot em up? Because that's already a pre-existing genre that's been around long before SC2 came about.
>>
>>254146000
Fantastic trips. Too bad these retards will keep shitposting.
>>
>>254146064
Strategy and tactics still work very well even when you are controlling just one unit.
>>
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>>254145859
>>
>>254146027
And what about Dota-like games that don't have an overhead camera or RTS-like controls?
>>
>>254146112
>>murder at panda mansion is a fucking watered down RTS for CASUSAALSLS!

Oh look another greentext I AM SILLY strawman. Dumbass.
>>
>>254146206
I'm talking about your "if it's made in map editor for RTS, its genre has to be RTS". As seen in >>254145686.
>>
>>254146248
>shiposting
>literally only posted that to mention trips

GREAT FUCKING CONTRIBUTION ANON
>>
>>254145868
>Mechanics are different.
Except that's a lie. The mechanics are exactly the same, unaltered from as they were in the original game. You can't even count dota as a minigame, since the controls are exactly the same too.
>>
>>254134615
Shovel knight
D:OS
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>>254145846
I'm sorry, Mr. Logical Fallacy, but what new content?
Most if not all of the "new" SC2 units are blatant reskins and renames of old Broodwar units, even going so far as to change the race the unit belongs to, or repurposes (eg. Medic + Dropship -> Mediship). And some units were removed entirely.

I really liked how Stronghold released Stronghold HD (and Crusader HD) as it meant I could play these classics without wanting to kill myself over how shitty they looked on my more modern hardware.
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>>254146353
>I'm talking about your "if it's made in map editor for RTS, its genre has to be RTS".
That's not my post, and that's not what he said. Why are you using strawmen?
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>>254133661
Population:yall
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>>254146425
Your experience from one genre does not apply to the other.
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>>254146112
>And despite that they play completely different

Just because you keep saying it over and over again, doesn't make it true.

The worst part is when people do interesting stuff with the genre (BL champions), you aren't paying attention because its outside your comfort zone.
>>
>>254146328
They would be in the same catagory as RTS games that don't have an overhead camera or a traditional control scheme.
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>>254146481
So what did you say? Dota is RTS because reasons? Because you're making angry comments?
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>>254146030
There aren't definite guides to cooking either, just different recipies.
>>254146327
You have no point.
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>>254146527
Are you for real? You really believe that skills and experience in somethng like WC3 wouldn't transfer over to Dota?
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>>254146562

Not him, but BL champions has shorter games which is a pain to play when it's FOTM central.
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>>254146481
>Shooters that only allow you to go foward aren't shooters, their PLSGs, or Pyro-like shooting games
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>>254146748
I know it. Because I played WC3 and I played dota.
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>>254136206
It's just the fact that MOBA is such a broad term and doesn't describe anything. Halo could be a MOBA, since you're online, in an enclosed arena, and you are battling, and pretty much every multiplayer game that has fighting in it could be described as a MOBA
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>>254146605
OK then so what if you take out the creeps? And the towers?

I'm just trying to determine exactly what part of this is the RTS part.
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>>254146851
well i played you're mom last night
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>>254146757
Its still leaps and bounds ahead of what icefrog is drip feeding dotards.

>High mobility
>tons of actives
>Always fightan
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>>254146937
Not him but dota would be really silly without creeps or towers.
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>>254146937
There are dotalikes without towers or creeps? Care to name them?
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>>254146474
And you drww a parallel to the SC:BW HD I mention being a churned out HD patch like Halo sequels.
Starcraft 2 IS that reskin, but it certainly isn't worth playing for any sense of nostalgia, or at all.
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>>254146886
>broad term
>fighting
>rts
>shmup

>implying that those terms couldn't be used for any FPS game
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>>254146957
Maybe you should make a thread about her and leave this one.

>>254146976
It's exactly like that outside of the trench.
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>>254146990
Is it the "jungle" that makes it an RTS subgenre?
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>>254146976

It's basically warcraft 3 warlock. It's lacking a lot of content for anyone to make a serious commitment to.
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>>254146791
>Your strategy has to involve mashing the stick a lot to dodge projectiles, because you can only go forward. Its very skill intensive.
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>>254147156
Those dudes in the jungle are creeps too and also are you blind didn't I say I'm not the person you were talking to?
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>>254146851
So because YOU personally couldn't adapt from WC3 to Dota, that means nobody else could? You don't know shit.
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>>254137567
>Are you sure they left you for the game?
yes, a lot of them refuse to play anything else
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>>254147282
I adapted very well. After I figured out how Dota works, that is. Care to post your profile, if you're such an expert?
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>>254146791
Oh hey look another greentext strawman quote of something no one even implied.

>>254146647
>Dota is RTS because reasons? Because you're making angry comments?
And again, same of as above but without the greentext.

The argument isn't that "if it's made in map editor for RTS, its genre has to be RTS". It's that the the genre originated in a RTS map editor, and uses most of the mechanics from RTS while adding others, making it a subgenre.

/v/ really is the worst board for having conversations. You're so intent on misrepresenting argument from a side you disagree with and immediately assume an us vs them mentality and never even bother to follow the fucking conversation.
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>>254147116
>It's exactly like that outside of the trench.
?
>>254147156
one unit, which is bullshit, since dota has tons of heroes micromanaging units.
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>>254134484
>manchildren growing out of a genre catered to them
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>>254147463
>>?
You heard me.

High mobility
tons of actives
Always fightan
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>>254147446
>hurr fite me fag
>missing the point this hard

You're saying skills in a RTS like WC3 don't transfer over at all to Dota, which is patently false.
>>
It's popular because people only control 1 op unit.

a lot of people wanted that in rts, to squash all the enemies units with 1 super powerful one
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>>254146656

The point that you are failing to see is that there is no possible 'grocery list' for a game like Dota.

It is simply impossible to catalog every possible situation and hero combination that you will encounter in matches, let alone memorize.
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>>254147219
I said interesting, not original. In order to be original, they'd have to be adding mechanics, not stripping them away.

>>254147224
>Why would I ever want to play on a map other than hightower? Hightower is good enough for me!
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>>254141035

Then how did all the "press R to win" teams lose in the tournament?

http://youtu.be/gJZrNfbHITk?list=UUfsOfLvadg89Bx8Sv_6WERg
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>>254137109
Other things that got big for awhile

Justin Bieber
Planking
Wearing oversized chains on your belts (might be before some of your times)

Just because it's big, doesn't mean I have to care or participate.
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>>254146886
Again, the argument wasn't over the merit of the term MOBA, just that the games described as such are in the same genre as Dotalikes, Assfaggots, whatever you want to call them.

>>254147085
I hope you're just shitpositing, for your sake.
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>>254147590
>the trench
That the part I didn't understand.
>>254147690
I am "grocery list poster" and I am not about to go looking for the static build macro.
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>>254137109
It's not too late, kids.

Think about it for a second. Everyone and your mother will be playing Sarcastaball in the future and you're still gonna be sitting there shitposting on /v/ on how much you dislike the genre. You're probably thinking that you don't care but look how much of a whinny faggots your are right now. It's just so sad to think that you're going to continue be like that because you're so retarded to ignore the games and the people who are playing them. Join the fun or fuck off

Sarcastaball is gonna get bigger and there's nothing you can do about it. Drink up.
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>>254147459
>It's that the the genre originated in a RTS map editor, and uses most of the mechanics from RTS while adding others, making it a subgenre.

No, the game that STARTED the genre originated in an RTS map editor, and that game uses most of the mechanics of that RTS, yes. But there are plenty of games that are taking those basic concepts and running with it, without being hamstrung by those mechanics. DOTA=/=The whole genre. What about SMNC, Smite? There are other games that don't resemble RTS games in the slightest.
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>>254147597
You have no point.
You said WC3 skills apply to Dota, so I just want to confirm you actually do have some Dota skills.
So, please, go ahead and post your profile.
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>>254138890
>ruining the RTS industry.
That's the only thing it's ruining?

reminder that Hi rez dropped tribes ascend to make a shitty, gerneric MOBA

reminder that even fucking CDPR is making a MOBA

in a few years, everyone and their mother will be making MOBA

hell, I'm sure even call of duty will get a MOBA

It's not runining the RTS genre, anon, it's ruining all of PC gaming
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>>254147952
>the the genre originated in a RTS map editor
>No, the game that STARTED the genre originated in an RTS map editor

Are you seriously this fucking pedantic.
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>>254147895
Those three things exist in dota outside of the trench.
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>>254132757
Get over it dude people enjoy the mode, just because you don't like it and are some faggot neckbeard doesn't mean everybody has to like what you like.
>OMGZ THIS ISN'T RTS
Nigga nobody cares.
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>>254148007
>If you aren't "This" good, you could POSSIBLY understand the DEEP mechanics of a game that has moved all of an inch since it left the warcraft engine

Im not even that poster
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>>254147459
I don't really care if it's subgenre or wholly independent genre. It's still a different genre and skills achieved in one do not apply to the other.
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>>254147939
...
This is quite possibly the single most astute comparison anyone has ever made regarding ASSFAGGOTS. Congratulations, sir.
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>>254148126
>tons of actives
>Dota
No. actions per minute. and basic attacks don't count.
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>>254148007
No, you have no point.
Whether I post my profile doesn't affect whether or not RTS skills apply to Dota, which is my point. You can't refute it, so you're resorting to argument from authority shennanigans in order to doge the point.
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>>254148087
Yes, because an entire genre is not one game.
Good argument, by the way.
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>>254133568
Because each one is a shameless dota clone

Originality on the part of game designers would require actual game design and an effort to balance the game around multiple maps.

The makers of every ASSFAGGOTS are inherently lazy and know the more they differentiate from dota, the more work it will require
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>>254132757
That map looks like the Dota 2 Logo.
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>>254147742
the press W team was stronger

also PPD is a fucking retard
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>>254148007
>So, please, go ahead and post your profile.
>So, please, go ahead and post your profile.
>So, please, go ahead and post your profile.
>>
>>254132757
Because it's a team game. In general, be it sports or video games, team based games are more popular. Both to watch and play.
That's why LoL and Dota is much more popular than SC.
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>>254148476
well the dota 2 logo is the map, the 2 ancients and the river
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>>254148408
I didn't say they were. I'm not the one ITT arguing the genre should be called DOTA because DOTA was the first one.
Good reading comprehension, by the way.
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>>254148386
Please, anon. You admit yourself you don't know how dota works. How do you justify to yourself participating in dota discussions? Or is this a big ruse and you intentionally keep saying silly things?
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>>254145058
I bet you play RTS games
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>>254147895

Well if you look at "static builds" for some heroes, you will absolutely lose the fucking game if you don't change what items you get.

Look at EG's game vs VG, if they had picked up medallion instead of midas = faster roshan which translates to losing less towers.

Item choices make absolutely all the difference, and you can tell when someone is being retarded by not adapting their item choices.
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>>254148548
That's why doubles Tennis is so popular and regular tennis is just a side show.
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>>254146474
Reapers? Broodlords? Swarmhosts? Void Rays? Marauders? Vikings? Thors? Roaches? Infestors? Corruptors? Sentries? Tempests?

Have you ever even played SC2?
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>tfw my hunger drives me
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>>254148593
>DOTA first one
Is anybody tell this autistic fuck the origins of the mode?
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>>254146527
>>254148007

How fucking small is your dick anon? Is this seriously how you debate things?

God fucking damn.

I'm gonna jump rope for a bit.
>>