Japanese devs can't into technology. It's always been up to western gaming studios to push the boundaries in terms of graphics, AI, etc in video games.
What makes you think they'd be able to pull off a true open world game?
Nintendo can into technology since they've a bunch of sperglords working over there when really needed.
Iwata should be coding, not being the president. He added a new continent to pokemon gold/silver after he was told they couldn't fit anymore on the Carthage.
Here's the trick : unlike Western developpers which focuses on concepts without developping them to their full extent, japanese developpers, especially Nintendo, are pretty good at game design.
>It's always been up to western gaming studios to push the boundaries in terms of graphics,
Nintendo pushed home-console visuals to arcade levels in 80s.
Konami did some amazing shit with PS2 tech during the time (see SH and MGS games).
Also you seem to forget this lil' thing called "JRPGs", that can be expansive as fuck.
Nintendo games did a ton of things long before Western devs did it, it's like you think stepping back for one whole gen completely invalidates all of the technology they produced all the gens beforehand. Not only will they make an excellent open world game, but for once the open world will feel alive.
Because by and large they know nothing of PC games/development
Nintendo's utter lack of attachment to the primarily Western "cutting edge of cinematic AAA graphics technology etc" can only be an advantage, it would only weigh them down like it does so much of AAA development.
Kojima Productions are fucking grandmasters. Look at the stuff they are doing with a team 10 times smaller than Ubisoft.The amount of skill and knowledge these guys have is unparalleled in the games industry. The sheer scope of MGSV is mindboggling, and their games are practically glitch free. Now compare that to watch_dogs. Rockstar is the western equivalent of KojiPro, but they have massive teams too.
the only thing the west does in term of graphixs is obcessing over realism and take hd photos of porstitutes to generate their characters. All the advancement we had to make 3D look stylized and not dreamworkface was from Japan, they didn't need foreigners to give us good animu girls in 3D. They also have a better concept of game design and a better concept of introducing game mechanics as the game goes and exploit them more and more. Their notion of style and coolness is also unmatched so far. And on top of that, their programmer let way less bugs in their final products than the gazzilion of unplayable at lauch western games on PC.
You can thank discipline for their solid and glitchfree engines and games. Japanese discipline is unmatched. Those fuckers have wills of iron and give it their all to get shit done. I wonder how crazy their crunch time must be...
Did..did you just spell "cartridge" "carthage"?
What the hell dude?
>t's always been up to western gaming studios to push the boundaries in terms of graphics, AI, etc in video games.
You mean PC developers. Most western console devs apart from Criterion weren't able to push shit before last gen
>I can clip through this boundary and fall through the world
>WORKS AS INTENDED
>game crashes so hard it breaks a console
>fire the tester
A lot of western programmers can deal with criticism as well as an infant.
>Implying the game will actually look like that
The WiiU can't handle something of that scope.
Shit, the uncharted trailer has more of a chance of not being a complete bulltrailer.
>That means fuck all. Nintendo isn't above shitty practices, either. Not by a long shot.
When have they lied before? Surely they've bullshitted before but I honestly can't remember. Seems out of character though. Usually their stuff improves by the time it releases.
>>That means fuck all
Yes, Nintendo is well known for their use of bull shots, am I right?
Their stance on DLC for instance was complete bullshit. And Xenoblade X's graphics were downgraded.
It looks terrible and those fucking faces, holy shit.
The first xenoblade on dolphin looks better.
>That means fuck all. Nintendo isn't above shitty practices, either. Not by a long shot
It's funny because so far when nintendo does the "this is ingame" trick at D3, the final game actually looks better than the demo. If that's your dfinition of shit practice then they can continue to be shit forever I'm fine with it.
Was Skyward Sword your first game in the series?
He's right, the graphics will be more or less the same but framerate, draw distance, amount of objects on screen could vary running in real time. And for all we know, what they shoed might not be a real area in the game and stuff liek teh grass physics might be changed/downgraded.
>pretends they invented open world,
they didn't even use the word, you are complaining about the fanfics you wrote yourself there. That's Dobson level of strawmaning, you can't sink lower.
The last time they've done a bullshot was during the N64 days and even that's debatable since it's only a render of Metal Mario.
FUCK THIS CAPATCHA SHIT HOW THE FUCK DO YOU READ THAT SHIT. ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS? FUUCK, THIS IS SUCH TURBO FAGGOTRY
If Dragon's Dogma is a fair test case on how far the Japanese gaming industry has come in designing open world systems, then I'm not worried one bit.
Bethesda marketing bought Famitsu reviews and a fair amount of exposure, and the otaku hopped all over that game after using Oblivion as a waifu simulator.
Fair enough. That seems pretty mild though in comparison to a lot of other dev's lies. I think your level of cynicism about the whole thing is uncalled for. Can't exactly tell you to stop though.
I think it's funny that instead of saying it looks like shit, people have resorted to plugging their ears and going "nanana the Wii U can't do this nanana"
I mean, I heavily doubt the press kit screenshots are indicative of how the game will truly look in the final build (1080p with AA and whatnot), but pulling off an open world game of this scale? Why the fuck not? If a 360 can pull off Oblivion or Skyrim then why can't a Wii U do this?
>It's always been up to western gaming studios to push the boundaries
You mean slavs
>People actually believe that this isn't going to be another Aonuma flavored casual hand-holding shitfest
Your infinite gullibility never ceases to amaze me /v/. You would think that after Skyward Sword you might have learned. I'd love for once, just for fucking once to be wrong about this but I doubt it.
I just have a nose for these things. My ability to smell shit coming from a mile away is uncanny.
Oblivion and skyrim look like shit and don't have real time grass physics with individual blades of grass and intelligent wildlife. I'm not saying it can't; I'm optimistic, but I'm just saying it's not comparable to oblivion.
>implying that city won't be full of corridors just like the last two games
>implying most of those buildings will have interiors
>implying that pushes any boundaries whatsoever
Are you serious? That was basically the team's first crack at open world ever on a system that couldn't even handle it. If you want to compare it to Bethesda games fine, but keep in mind that they started with Oblivion, which makes for four open world games on last gen over the life of the console.
Link between Worlds had no hand holding. I believe Aonuma talked about learning from this. He said he wants people to be able to get lost again. There is a built in tip feature. Though in order to access them you need to wear special glasses and pay for hints in play coins. It's incredibly unobtrusive. I honestly forgot about it until right now. It's also a non linear game in the sense that dungeons can be done in any order.
>I just have a nose for these things. My ability to smell shit coming from a mile away is uncanny.
You must be smelling the wrong thing because you're clearly uniformed.
>someone hasn't played ALBW
I liked ALBW but if you're implying that there was anything particularly clever about the open world design then you're fertile ground for Nintendo to spread their fertilizer. It also wasn't really the return to form that the series badly needed either.
My biggest worry is that they'll retain excessive handholding, fetch quests, obligatory collectathons, mediocre area/dungeon design as well as reusing assets way more than is excusable.
>It's always been up to western gaming studios
Yeah, it's not like MGS2 and Final Fantasy X were years ahead of every western game in terms of presentation. Oh wait.
It's true that japs have lost their touch though. They couldn't adapt well to post-PS2 era changes.
it's hard to explain, i'm talking about the "feel" of the gameplay
for example Gears of War and Uncharted vs Metal Gear Online
both are third person shooting games but they feel different
Or God of War vs a musou game
Because Nintendo has some talented as fuck graphic designers. I wouldn't say "better" myself, but I personally haven't seen anything on current-gen that looks impressive compared to what's possible last-gen, other than running consistently with perks like higher resolution and framerate. Like, look at Mortal Kombat X. It hardly looks any better than MK9 other than having more shit in the backgrounds.
You have your exceptions like Bloodborne and the new Uncharted but Bloodborne runs at like 18 fps in its current state and Naughty Dog were full of shit for half of The Last of Us' promotional material, so I don't see why people think they suddenly aren't now.
He's really good at it though. That nigger saved games like Pokémon Gold/Silver and Earthbound. That last game has a text system so complex in theory you could make it run another game of Earthbound.
I really don't think we can derive hope from a game which was
a) The sequel/spiritual successor of what is essentially an "old school Zelda"
b) A game which was most likely made to appeal to fans of said game
c) A niche portable title which didn't have nearly as many resources or marketing thrown at it than the Wii-U title will
Aonuma and the team had a different approach for ALBW. They're going to go right back to their Skyward Sword mentality when designing the next main game.
>You must be smelling the wrong thing because you're clearly uniformed.
I'm in casual clothes right now.
Sorry, how am I uninformed about something we know nothing about? I'm just guessing.
I'm know I'm being a dick here but a graphic designer is not a person who makes video game graphics. You could use it for that but it really would be stretching the meaning of the job.
>What makes you think they'd be able to pull off a true open world game?
Because Japanese devs have done open world games before?
I mean, this is nintendo's first attempt at it, but Capcom and Square Enix have both done open world games now, and Kojima is also working on one.
You don't have to make good graphics. They clearly want to though, they're just incompetent as shit and take 3 times the time a western studio would take.
And what with the boner for "roguelikes" and Meme Gear Revengeance, Souls games and whatnot, it's not like difficulty is a factor.
>this is nintendo's first attempt at it
I shifted over one million units and received positive reviews across the board. I don't think that's niche. I'm basing my predictions on A Link Between Worlds which was the last game in the series. You're basing your predictions on ''I can smell this coming.''
Yes I'm aware that one million isn't a huge number for sales. But it's pretty damn good for a ''niche old school Zelda game.''
Like you said we don't know much about it. But you need more than ''I have a nose for things.'' Because that means nothing to no one but you.
If they can basically do what they did with windwaker but have everything be joined together than it should be good.
I'm just hoping we're not going to have another skyrim like game where everything feels like I was just generated with some program rather than carefully crafted.
>Yeah, it's not like MGS2 and Final Fantasy X were years ahead of every western game in terms of presentation. Oh wait.
The beginning of the 6th generation was the one time japanese games came close to western ones graphically and still you're wrong compared to games like aquanox, max payne, splinter cell, etc.
I asked the same question when I saw Yoshi's Woolly World and thought "Why does this look better than Little Big Planet 3?"
Only explaination I have is that Nintendo has a god tier art team.
I knew you were going to jump on the word "niche" but "over 1 million" is nothing for a Zelda title. Not only did you take that out of context but you completely ignored all of the other reasons I gave as to why ALBW shouldn't be taken of an indication as to how the series is progressing.
>You're basing your predictions on ''I can smell this coming.''
Yes, because I'm almost always right, and unlike you I don't have what appears to be a substantial vested interest in any negative speculation.
>But you need more than ''I have a nose for things.''
All I need is a trite trailer with a bland art-style and Aonuma feeding us lies, and the last 5 Zelda games.
Honestly, I don't think the question should be whether the Wii U has the power to push the open world in terms of omg grafix but rather if it has the memory capacity to push something in the vein of the promotional material without loading zones. But I mean, that should be doable, right? Does there not exist procedural generation techniques to circumvent the need to have a hyper-detailed yet sprawling world? I'm guessing biggest risk there is determining if they could execute it adequately i.e. without glaring pop-in issues.
Nintendo has actually detailed their recruitment system before somewhere. Wish I had a link... but I remembering reading that it's notorious for being ridiculously bonkers up the ass hard with a high failure rate of like 80% or something.
(Note: This is for Japan, you know, one of the most studious countries in the WORLD... so yeah...)
>I knew you were going to jump on the word "niche"
I jumped on it because all of your reasons could be condensed in to that one. A. B and C were all saying it was niche but in a different way.
>Yes, because I'm almost always right
Again, this doesn't mean anything to me.
>the last 5 Zelda games
I'm basing it on the last one. Your original point was about hand holding. The last game released didn't have that. It was praised for it.
>always been up to western gaming studios to push the boundaries in terms of graphics, AI, etc in video games.
Because that's the only thing they can do while the japs can make actual fun gameplay mechanics so they don't have to rely on muh graphix to sell their games.
That spot doesn't look like that in the final game.
I'm assuming that Thomp ruins right?
Dragons Dogma was pretty good from the gameplay side, its main problem was trying to cram fuckloads of visual effects that the engine didnt really have before onto hardware that couldnt handle it
So they re-tooled the course. What matters is that the promotional material is not only honestly indicative of the final product, but the final product is actually...a little bit better looking.
Not only that, they fit the first Zelda on it fucking twice. The second quest is largely different from the first with not only different dungeons, but vastly re-mapped locations OF said dungeons. It's practically a brand new fuckin' game you get to play instantaneously when you beat the first quest.
Japan can create high-end graphics as well as the west... but why should they? It's unreasonably expensive in a market that's rapidly shrinking. Especially so in Japan. Mobile is the future for general casual game playing.
as other anons have said, because Nintendo has the best art design team in the world by far.Their IPs aren't legendary status just because of top-tier gameplay and innovation (though that plays a big part). They are the masters of creating designs that are universally appealing and instantly recognizable to everyone.
When Phil Fish said that "Japanese Games suck," he couldn't agree more. He sincerely believed that the japanese industry is terrible and that it absolutely needed to improve.
He whole heartedly believes that western videogames and the industry works together as a unity to improve
He believes the japanese fail to do this, and never work together
He's the hero they need, but do not deserve
He even said himself in the announcement that Wind Waker had 'exits and entrances' to areas so it wasn't a true open world, in the new Zelda you can go literally wherever you want from whatever angle you want whenever you want.
>Japanese devs can't into technology. It's always been up to western gaming studios to push the boundaries in terms of graphics, AI, etc in video games.
You know that for a short time the PS1 and N64 had games that graphically did things that PC games couldn't right?
That's a load. The whole console industry is in shambles. Even with all it's "success", the 8th gen consoles still barely gets any games (if you don't count ports and indies). Both industries, Japan and West are on the brink, the brink of becoming mobile only.
>Made one of the greatest games ever made and procedes to tell everyone that japanese vidya is shit but here's WHY it's shit and how we can improve it.
Meanwhile, Phil Fish:
>Made one mediocre game and told everyone japanese games are shit. That's it.
He doesn't really know shit about the western industry is what's likely. What he believes is fucking bullshit but it's good bullshit.
Pic related, one of his slides during his presentation on why the japanese game industry is currently terrible
Sure, but like I said, aquanox.
Less things to model. In max payne, every bullet and casing was modeled.
No, maybe the PS2 version, which I never played.
Not to mention better particle effects and and lighting. Anyone who think FFX was more graphically impressive than max payne just doesn't know anything about graphics.
Chaos Theory, Half-Life 2, Doom 3, etc etc etc. I won't argue what games look the best, but it's clear who was on the forefront of graphical innovation.
Why are those faggots always considered to be the face of indie gaming?
Minecraft feels unfinished, FEZ is a good exploration game but doenst have any good puzzles. And Super Meat Boy.... well okay, that one is pretty cool.
Why doesnt anyone ever mention Nifflas? Or the guy who made Cave Story? (I cant into japanese names)
Its fucking annoying.
>Presentation by westaboo japanese dude talking about why the western industry, indie and AAA, is better than the Japanese.
>Slide glorifying four popular devs, one specifically that he quoted near the start of the presentation
>Gets mad about the slide being there
Holy fuck Pixel is so overrated. He's such a cunt.
He doesn't care for his fans, he gave his most cherished IP to the satan of indie games, he advertised his own game when he talked about La-mulana, and his only defining flaw is the fact he's nice.
It uses the same Sparse Voxel Octree trick for speeding up indirect illumination calculations as Unreal Engine 4. It also does real-time smoke simulation. It's pretty impressive. Unlike Unreal Engine it scales better too.
>Does there not exist procedural generation techniques to circumvent the need to have a hyper-detailed yet sprawling world?
I feel like I need to clarify this part. People are skeptical that a Wii U can execute a world of the detail in the promotional materials to the scale advertised, but, is it actually necessary for that level of detail to be ever-present, all at once? This is what I aim to get at when I mention procedural generation. For example, some people have pointed out the lack of detail in the far background as evidence that it's "faked," but what if it's just some clever technique to mask the fact that the assets of those regions aren't fully rendered because the player hasn't gotten to a close enough point to trigger rendering them? (Sorry if I sound really dumb here, I'm using a lot of inference and don't know the technical implications of all of it.)
Poland is part of the EU retard. You know that whole thing with Russia, Ukraine and Crimea? It was started because the EU was approaching on Ukraine and Vladimir Putin didn't like the idea of having the west bordering him. So if Vlad says so, it's so. PolandEU is Western.
Right, that's what I was thinking too. What Aonuma describes sounds like something unprecedented for the genre as a whole, not just Zelda, so you can't adopt a definition of the open world genre as a whole based on the approach he's describing.
You don't even need to go procedural. Just have your data support streaming well and some LOD assets. Though most AAA do this haphazardly. Also, 1 gig of ram is enough to support a very large field of view with decent texture and mesh compression 8 gigs is overkill honestly.
Like ALBW, Zelda U is a derivative of the older games- specifically the NES Zelda- rather than the 3D ones. Why do you believe that they'll go back to the hyper linear structure of Skyward Sword after stating that Zelda U will be closer to the original multiple times?
We may know very little about the game, but the info we do know points to this game being different from SS. Besides, Aonuma has never stated anything about "going back to their Skyward Sword mentality when designing the next main game."
Metal Gear Solid is more impressive in design and technical perseverance than the actual technical chops themselves. Even MGS5 isn't the most impressive thing out there. The 3d scanning pipeline is what makes it look good and they licensed that out.
Japan understands limits and builds their games around it, they have a more polished product in the end. Because of the West's focus on trying to to break these limits focusing on realism and building games around PC specs for a console they end up with more buggy less polished games.
The West can into great video games, but other thank games like The Witcher they just feel rushed and mass produced.
I'm a little confused about how LOD works. Are entirely different assets used to stand in for the ones that would become more detailed at another time? Or is it a technique for using the same assets but reducing their level of detail?
>Japanese devs can't into technology
Japanese games manage to have grass and colors while westerns manage to have grass textures.
Open world isn't "technology". It's game design. MGS has more technology than the whole western gaming community combined.
Oh wait, i'm thinking of Panta Rhea. Oops. No, MT Framework is pretty basic actually. It's a bunch of archaic tricks like that specialized Cascaded Shadow Mapping they had and such.
>What makes you think they'd be able to pull off a true open world game?
final fantasy xi, xiii, xiv
>Open world isn't "technology". It's game design. MGS has more technology than the whole western gaming community combined.
You got that backwards, MGS isn't really that impressive from a technological standpoint. But the attention to detail is amazing.
LOD (Level of Detail) assets is just what it sounds like. You create a hierarchy of assets with lower amounts of detail per "level" such as a mesh with 10,000 polygons will be replaced with 5,000 polygon model at a lower level and so on.
This. Most of this stuff, like fire burning grass and spreading was in fucking far cry 3 and this size of game has been done before, in shit like Skyrim, and the Witcher. The technology and techniques are out there now. This Zelda has the potential to be the best Open World RPG. I'd never say that otherwise because fuck OoT and it's successors. But this? It's LoZ NES in true 3D form. It's the fucking dream game and dream world we always imagined. It's about fucking time Zelda went to it's open world routes. I can't fucking wait
I've read their technology powerpoints. It's not that impressive. They use a pretty old hack (In fact it's the old Half-Lambert trick Half Life 2 uses) for hair shading and the rest is just physically based shaders which just means making sure your highlights and shadows aren't over-exaggerated by technical hacks. In fact the most impressive stuff they use was licensed out from western companies like their 3d scanning stuff and their real-time cloth hack.
>It's always been up to western gaming studios to push the boundaries
Sure thing bro.
Might not look like much, but this thing was trully groundbreaking back then. There was nothing even remotely similar.
>Following their successful collaboration with Nintendo on Star Fox, British game developer Argonaut Games pitched a 3D platformer starring Yoshi and made a prototype for it . However, Nintendo did not follow on the offer, with one Argonaut employee speculating this was because the company did not want to let third-parties use its characters.
>Argonaut's Jez San believes that the refusal to pick up the Yoshi pitch was the final blow to Nintendo and Argonaut's relationship, which was previously damaged by the cancellation of the nearly completed Star Fox 2. San further states that the prototype influenced Super Mario 64, stating that "Miyamoto-san went on to make Mario 64, which had the look and feel of our Yoshi game - but with the Mario character, of course"
Super Mario 64 runs on British tech
All those threads in the past where people asked "what are your hopes and expectations for Zelda U?" and guys like you and me would say "well I really just want it to be like friggin' Zelda 1 in 3D but I'm not holding my breath for that at all" and now...this. I'm so damn happy. Not hyped--HAPPY. Like watching the teaser doesn't get me all nerd-excited but I just get this big shit-eating grin on my face. I don't even skip to the gameplay footage, I sit there and listen to him talk about old-school Zelda to the backdrop of the NES original and soak in the greatness of it.
Same. It's like a dream come true, and I couldn't be happier. GameXplain's analysis on this sure put a smile on my face as well. I hope we get cryptic messages in this one again. I want to go somewhere, get a piece of paper, then go somewhere else and get a potion or something. This is just something else.
A friend of mine was bummed they didn't show actual Zelda footage but some movie. I'm not sure he believed me when I told him what you saw was ingame footage, just with altered camera angles and such. He probably still doesn't believe me.
They're not claiming to "pull off a true open world game", and what does that even imply in the first place.
Even most contemporary open world games suck ass, so I don't think I understand what makes some of them "true", if it hasn't got to do with enjoyment.
Japanese technology is probably better actually.
Looking forward to that seamless rolling of the environment that no western devs seem to give a shit about.
They just accept obvious mipmap switches and grass/foliage always popping in at the same exact distance.
I agree in the graphics department, but that's the only department where they succeed. AI has been stale for at least a decade. Japanese games just have more depth and fun put into them. Also, Aonuma ruined Zelda. Come at me.
I loved that shit when they said that about Skyrim. Yeah, we sure can climb it. Let me just fucking hop my ass around like a bitch with running starts in hopes I hit some perfectly angled piece of mountain that lets me hop up the fucking side. Maybe Link will have climbing gear in the new Zelda and we can actually climb the damned thing.
Scrolling screens doesn't stop it from being open world. It was open world. Open world is alternatively called 'free roaming.' Which is what a few of the Zelda games have allowed.
If he's using another definition, well that's his problem for being an incompetent fucking developer who doesn't seem to know jack shit about the games industry.
IMAGINE ALL THE FUCKING RUPEES IN THE FIELD!
Pretty sure you don't need to know anything about graphics to find them pleasing to look at. Just like you don't need to know anything about how to construct a chair to find one that is comfortable.
>You see that pond?
>You can fish there.
>have to buy WiiU and Zelda U just to roam
What the actual fuck
No I think you should go ahead first and list the things that you think others think Mario 64 was the first to do, but which you are smart enough to know was done before.
Then after that, we can talk about how it's relevant to a games status as "groundbreaking" that it did all of them well at the same time.
And you can free roam your ass right to them and then right out.
Having limited abilities does not make something not free roaming. GTA isn't lacking open world because you don't spawn inside a fucking helicopter at the start of the game. You do in fact have to get to it. They also lock portions off.
Far Cry 2's map is hugely made up of corridors. It's exactly what Aonuma said he wanted to avoid. Most of the elevated areas can't be reach and only work to funnel you so most ares only have 3 or so methods of approach.
>Which is what I am saying. Do you faggots just not read response chains or do you just jump in without any context like some aspie?
Really? You're suggesting that without beating a boss or talking to someone you can hit the start button and teleport to the end game sequence? Are you fucking retarded?
These are free roaming GAMES. They HAVE GAMEPLAY BEHIND THEM. Stop being a dipshit.
You can literally go and pick up any fucking item in any dungeon, leave that dungeon and beat other dungeons without beating them in any specific order.
>Having limited abilities does not make something not free roaming
When you say ability, you are talking about ability to ROAM. SO YES dude, it is not free roaming.
Free roaming is shit from a game design standpoint, because the entire point of an adventure is that it is not meant to be effortless and free to roam.
I realize this post is like 2 hours old, but I figure it's worth a shot to reply.
Is this what you're looking for?
But you responded to someone arguing that it was freeroaming and insulted him, greentexting stuff he wasn't talking about, so it sounded a lot like you wanted to disprove his point of it being freeroaming.
My bad if you were greentexting something someone earlier had written.
Be aware of the double-edged sword that greentexting can be if you manage to not imply what you think you're implying.
Except that's wrong, faggot. Japan is always the one making more beautiful games. There isn't a single western game more beautiful than that screen shot.
Name one western game with an art style that can even compare to El Shaddai, Wind Waker, or Jet Set Radio.
What western pigshit game can even hold a candle to the colorful majesty that is Dragon Quest VIII?
Free roam doesn't mean automatically completed objectives or instantaneous abilities you dipshit.
The only 'games' that do that are tech demos. By your retarded definition not even minecraft is free roam because you can't fly into the fucking sun when you first start up the game or drill the planet with TNT for ages.
You must seriously have brain damage if you think an empty field is better than that. And what we were talking about is a seamless, large, and richly detailed world, which is what Aonuma was talking about.
Free roam means free roam. Stop using words you don't mean, and learn. I am sick of trying to tell you how stupid you sound because you do not want to put in the effort to stop saying stupid shit that can cause needless arguments.
Stay a pleb.
>There was a guy from a prominent game design school in my group that tries to dominate the conversation and drop some names of senpais (??) he know already working there.
To make it clear for you. Free roaming largely removes artificial barriers in the game. Not actual fucking barriers. A game is still free roaming even if you can't clip through the fucking wall you two bit knob slobber.
If there's an area that you need a rope, you need a rope. That's part of the game, it's not stopping you from getting a rope and going the fuck over there. If there's a progression of items you need to get that rope well you're free to roam your ass right through that progression or try something else. The game doesn't give a shit and that's the point. There aren't strict 'levels' in a sense that you can't go anywhere, not some specific place, but anywhere. You are stuck in that shit dink level until you beat it and continue to the next level. Likewise you can generally go to a significant amount of places in the world when you want.
>The WiiU can't handle something of that scope.
Well it was quite obviously runnin in-engine, so I'm ready to assume it can. Why would it even be hard to believe those graphics were real-time? What in the picture would set off the bullshot alarm?
>Japanese devs can't into technology
given they have to work with, Nintendo is the most proficient dev with technology by very far
western dev's approach when they hit ceiling is to add more RAM and even then they almost never hit 60fps
>Free roaming largely removes artificial barriers in the game. Not actual fucking barriers.
So then we are in agreement that the first Zelda game had no free roam. Because it has not removed the barriers which are the screen scrolling viewpoint and are clearly not natural in feel and in play.
>You used Far Cry 2 as an example of something it isn't.
I used it as an example of what I JUST said. And what we were talking about. We weren't talking about a literal open world.
I'm pretty sure he brings it up sometimes during Iwata Asks. Have some links.
I'm still here if you want to actually defend yourself.
>Wind Waker had 'exits and entrances' to areas so it wasn't a true open world, in the new Zelda you can go literally wherever you want from whatever angle you want whenever you want
Far Cry 2 falls into that because of the way you are funneled into areas.
He is a nice person and he made Cave Story all by himself. Same with Kero Blaster. Not sure what your problem is, man. Me and Pixel talk on twitter and he really is a nice fellow.
Modern coding isn't exactly the same thing as he used to do back in the day anyway, so it's good to make way for the new talents.
And as CEO with programming and software planning background, he's probably pretty good as assessing whether products are moving the right direction.
>go literally wherever you want from whatever angle you want whenever you want
But what he meant was the same as what is in Far Cry 2. For fucks sake, as if he was talking about no_clip you moron.
>literally from whatever angle you want
lol, you really expect this to happen?
>wii u hardware shits on 360/ps3 hardware
>360/ps3 runs skyrim and far cry 3 no problem
>nintendo is killer at optimizing their games for their hardware
I don't see why it can't look like the open field shot from the teaser.
It won't look like the following scene with the chase, because that's obviously a cinematic. Still, I believe the game will look and play great on wii u hardware
I don't think you faggots realize the more graphical prowess a game has, the more money it takes to produce. It's not that they can't do it, it's that it's an incredibly risky endeavor to have these bloated AAA budgets that are approaching (or even exceeding) the budgets of Hollywood blockbusters. It leads to games like Destiny, where the marketing budget becomes over half of the overall production budget, because when you spend 250 million dollars making a game, failure is not something that's an option.
I would prefer devs to work within their means, but they'll be forced to soon enough anyway. AAA is becoming unprofitable and far too risky. Nip devs were simply the first to retract from the market.
The thing that pisses me off about this is that various sites keep calling this a gameplay video despite zero gameplay. That is by definition not a gameplay video. It's a prescripted cutscene video and tells us nothing about gameplay specifically. Hell you can't even ascertain whether it's open world even though they say it is, the video doesn't show that, at all.
True but I doubt he just lost his knowledge even with the non use of it, I'm pretty sure if he supervised a project he could make sure the code was clean and working. Although at the same time it'd be pretty scary having Iwata over your shoulder checking your code
>But what he meant was the same as what is in Far Cry 2
No it wasn't.
>For fucks sake, as if he was talking about no_clip you moron.
He was talking about open worlds that don't funnel you into ares with only a few entrances and exists, which is exactly what Far Cry 2 does.
>lol, you really expect this to happen?
No I don't. I'm extremely skeptical about the new Zelda.
It's about the same, but with more programmable shaders and (if rumours are correct) fixed function shaders. Polygon count will be about the same, but the overall rendering will look better.
It's a prescripted cutscene of what it might look like when a player plays it. Like all "gameplay" videos. The only difference is that the camera is set at a different angle to what a player might be looking at.
You know why Japanese game devs don't do the open world thing as frequently as Western devs? Because they aren't fucking idiots and they know padding out a massive empty space with long stretches of nothing and copy and paste buildings and mindless npcs is FUCKING TERRIBLE GAME DESIGN FOR LAZY NIGGERS WHO CAN'T CREATE INTERESTING LEVELS.
I just want games, man. Graffix are nice, but I can deal as long as it is engaging and challenging. This is coming from musterd race with a very good rig.
Vidya Industry Crash 2.0 is probably coming soon anyway.
I think he talks about not being able to completely let go of it, in some of the Iwata Asks. Like he'll get very technical with his questions when he's being shown the latest build of a game.
The original Legend of Zelda makes me think that.
>No it wasn't
Sure bro. He was talking about No-clip. And if you seriously think that Far Cry 2 funnels you into "areas" then you are even more ignorant than I thought you were.
And of COURSE it's not going to fucking happen, because if a game lets you handle shit however you feel like handling it, then it wouldn't be a goddamn game.
I am done responding to you. It's clear to me that you are a braindead fuckwit, and you have no clue about anything.
I feel like Nintendo doesn't talk about hardware enough. They should constantly be talking about their hardware.
I think if they had a new console with even better hardware and a stronger focus on controllers over game pads, they'd get awesome 3rd party support
There's no burden of proof. Somebody stated Mario 64 was groundbreaking and that there was nothing like it at the time.
Then somebody, could have been you, stated that it wasn't as groundbreaking as it is credited for and/or remembered as.
The I said that it was probably more so, because quite many disregard its innovations as commonplace now, or mix up the years and assume everyone around the same time had created all the same things.
What any of us is supposed to "prove" or "defend" is rather unclear to me.
>Iwata glancing over my shoulder proof checking the code I'm writing.
I want to know what that feels like.
It does make me think though, that they could do some interesting work with dynamic pathfinding with the horse and you can 'direct' the horse to take left/right or circle around like you would a real horse you're not directly controlling and let it run and take various paths and roads and weaves while you aim your bow/boomerang and such. That way you could actually have gameplay that does play similar to that with shit chasing you and your horse dodging as you try to shoot while the whole thing wouldn't be a cutscene. So long as you don't guide your horse into a dead end that gets your shit tossed off the horse.
Though it's unlikely you'd bother having a 'toss your cloak' and wink while you slow mo jump button. It'd also be retarded.
I'm all for making battles more 'cinematic' in nature through gameplay as long as it's not QTE shit.
Shit man, you know just as well as I do. Everyone on /v/ does. You just want to bait me into a long-winded discussion where you can display your skills in arguing.
If you really wanted to talk about Mario 64 and its merits, you'd have stated why you think it gets too much credit in your very first post.
>Sure bro. He was talking about No-clip.
You are one dense little man.
>And if you seriously think that Far Cry 2 funnels you into "areas" then you are even more ignorant than I thought you were.
That's exactly what it does. Look at the map here >>248339369
For instance, if you look at the lake near the top, you'll see there are only 3 ways in and out of the area. You can't traverse the cliffs around it. That's exactly what Aonuma said wasn't truly open world.
>And of COURSE it's not going to fucking happen, because if a game lets you handle shit however you feel like handling it, then it wouldn't be a goddamn game.
I don't see where you're getting this from. This is only about what constitutes an open world.
>I am done responding to you. It's clear to me that you are a braindead fuckwit, and you have no clue about anything.
Pretty typical of morons to get mad when they're wrong instead of learning form their mistakes.
I can only imagine the pressure is equivalent to the pressure you get trying to disarm a bomb, and you'll know if you did well if he just smiles, pats your shoulder, and walks away content
No, it's just that I'm in an inherently disadvantaged position. I could talk about how SM64 gets too much credit for having large 3D levels for instance only to find out it wasn't one of things you were talking about anyway.
One thing I hope this game retains from the older installments is the need to experiment with items to find new uses and interact with the environment outside of combat and puzzles. I was so miffed in Skyward Sword when I discovered you could slash one of those mushrooms and scoop up the pollen that flies out of them with a bottle, only to find out that it does absolutely fucking nothing to anything.
You could get by 'funnel' effect on mountains by including something like, ropes/free climbing with stamina/grappling hook/hookshot/bird friend/whirlwind whistle/hang glider/. It gives a natural barrier to new starts to guide players if they don't know how to get said items etc... Likewise, you could either use two or more of those method like hook shot and hang glider and have some levels accessible by gliding but then have things like an enourmoustower with various jutting sections you need to climb up using a hook shot to arc run and toss yourself up, not entirely different from JC2's grappling hook up skyscrapers.
>dynamic pathfinding with the horse and you can 'direct' the horse
This could actually be done in the game, you touch the screen to "command" the horse how to go from A->B and the joystick to look around.
Or using both joysticks to re-create what they did on OoT and MM where you could look around with the horse moving (in those was in a straight line), but now controlling the horse with the other joystick.
That's kind of silly. Developers move into management positions all the time. It's especially valuable to have someone who knows the ins and outs of development in charge of guiding it.
Which is to say, modern development is also a largely different beast from what it was in the mid 90s. A lot of skills are transferable but it would still likely be a net negative.
This has got nothing to do with advantages and disadvantages. We all know what Mario 64 is typically credited for. And it's generally seen as an industry milestone.
If you want to talk about how some earlier games or other contemporaries really should get a some of its honor, then do so.
I'd say have it use button shortcut like 'hold A and tap a direction' and it'll give the horse a 'hint' so if you tap left it'll try to go through the next left branch and then wherever it knows is 'most open' so theoretically it should run to the places where it can keep running without your guidance but you could lead it if you want. and hold A and tap backwards to hint it to run in a circle in the current area. Triple tap A to take the reigns for more minute control. Or whatever button is appropriate. Point is, keep your other buttons open and maximize button control.
I'm not really suggesting that the game itself does it, but from a design perspective you could use mountainous regions to constrict a player while still keeping it interesting even though it's open and eventually have the mountainous regions fully explorable.
>This has got nothing to do with advantages and disadvantages
Yes it does.
>We all know what Mario 64 is typically credited for. And it's generally seen as an industry milestone.
And yet you've had multiple opportunities to say what they are and you have been unable to do so.
"As one of the earlier three-dimensional (3D) platform games, Super Mario 64 is based on open world playability, degrees of freedom through all three axes in space, and relatively large areas which are composed primarily of true 3D polygons as opposed to only two-dimensional (2D) sprites. The game established a new archetype for the 3D genre, much as Super Mario Bros. did for 2D sidescrolling platformers. In the evolution from two dimensions to three, Super Mario 64 places an emphasis on exploration within vast worlds that require the player to complete multiple diverse missions, in addition to the occasional linear obstacle courses as in traditional platform games. While doing so, it still preserves many gameplay elements and characters of earlier Mario games.
The game has left a lasting impression on 3D game design, particularly notable for its use of a dynamic camera system and the implementation of its 360-degree analog control."
No, this doesn't have to do with advantages and disadvantages.
You seem to want to generally challenge both the notion of the game being "groundbreaking" as well as the notion of there even being a general consensus of it being so.
But you don't actually pull your gun on these challenges.
You're been beating around the bush without saying anything for the last half an hour.
I wonder how others didn't recognized this at first.
Good job, 9/11
If far cry 2 funnels people into areas, then what the fuck does the first zelda game do?
Look at this shit. Look at all these funnels. You've completely misunderstood what Aonuma was talking about. Well done.
>No, this doesn't have to do with advantages and disadvantages.
Yes it does.
>You seem to want to generally challenge both the notion of the game being "groundbreaking" as well as the notion of there even being a general consensus of it being so
No, of course the consensus is that it's groundbreaking, I just think people should understand burden of proof. It doesn't matter what the consensus is or if someone is making a controversial claim. I won't be forced into a disadvantageous position because some idiot thinks he doesn't have to defend his ideas if they're status quo.
>If far cry 2 funnels people into areas, then what the fuck does the first zelda game do?
The same thing.
>Look at this shit. Look at all these funnels. You've completely misunderstood what Aonuma was talking about. Well done.
What you're saying about me actually applies more to you.
How is it disadvantageous for you?
How does this whole thing have anything to do with burden of proof?
Are you saying that I am an idiot?
These are ultimately not questions I'm particularly interested in the answers of, though.
Some other anon was kind enough to get a common blurb about the game off somewhere.
I have no beef with this description, so let's start there. If you feel forced into a disadvantage, then feel free to take the first swing.
This is only a metaphorical fight, and if you have valuable input that will benefit my perception of that game and associated gaming history then I'm all ears.