Which online video game takes the most individual skill?

League of Legends

Bloodline: Champions

>>245170052
yeah well your opinion is wrong

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>>245170052

APB

team fortress 2

Which singleplayer video game takes the most skill?

>>245170052
WoW arena was actually fairly "complex" for what it was, with a huge skill floor to even play

Maybe something like tribes for the winner however.

>>245170052
Skill isn't a metric that can be measured in a definitive way. Mechanically speaking, starcraft 2 may have a very high skill ceiling, but that doesn't necessarily speak to the strategy of it. While it is a strategy game, it is by no means the epitome of strategy.

So if we're defining individual skill as mechanical skill you may be correct, but to say individual skill as what it truly means (ones ability to do well individually) is far too vague to be answered.

doter

>>245170308
>>245170580
How the fuck can these rely on individual skill? You can lose just because of one bad player

>>245170052
Probably some fighting game.

Individual skill means single player or direct 1v1. Any sort of team based game is not applicable to determining individual skill.

>>245170471
dark souls

>>245170471
Danmaku/Bullethell.

>>245170052
Fightan is flooded with games that require extremely high individual skill in the competitive aspect so I'll just nominate the entire fucking genre.

>>245170687
This does not necessarily mean winning, but rather how well a single person can do.

>>245170872
OP should of said that if that's what they meant. The actual meaning of individual skill has nothing to do with a 1v1.

Supreme Commander.

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>>245170754
>>245170998
My niggas

>>245170486

>huge skill floor
>every game is pillar humping and cc inside of cc

If you break down cc cooldown buttons into color buttons, wow pvp is a basic rhythm game with a line of sight mechanic.

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Chivalry

I think starcraft requires more practice than any game out there. Could be wrong though, lots of rhythm games require months of work to become decent.

Don't know if constant practice directly correlates with skill but whatever

>>245171207
This

>Games
>Skill
Keep telling yourself that

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>No Quake yet
Goddammit, guys

People here are confusing skill with strategy. If you have a solid concept of strategy then it takes no skill to deploy it for relatively static games like RTS games.

Fighting games require skill (strategy, split second timing, multiple input controls for varying move sets to be employed on the fly, knowing each opponent and how to counter their moves and abilities).

I am not saying that RTS doesn't involve a good amount of strategy, it is pure strategy, but skill? Not so much.

>>245171049
>should of

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>>245170754

>thought faytan was just combo memorization
>Only true for the shitty games
>learn what option selects are and various game stick mods

The good fighting games are fucking intense. Others are pretty meh and just combo mashers like I thought originally, like mahvel[/spoiler[.

>>245171720
Falling back into my old habits. Faggots still correcting me. Nothing ever changes.

>>245171681
There's a bit of skill involved in RTS games, especially ones like starcraft where you often have to make decisions on the fly, have constant macro/micro going and kiting enemies with fast units

Though I do agree, starcraft is mostly about long term decision making and pre-planned strategy

>>245171681
I wouldn't say it takes "no skill" but it is a good bit less than the utterly reflex-oriented fightan, yes.

Quake Live, is there even any question?

Fighting games and twitch shooters

>>245171569
>point and click
>skill
no shitposting please

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>>245170052

>>245172256
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR7CU3CJ7iU

My first answer is SC but after thinking about it I always decide on quake.

>>245172378
>both of these games require more APM than any FPS game ever will
damn...

>>245171681
Explain company of heros where its not "my unit is better than your's I win" but rather about ambushes, orientating your units, using the terran and concealment to hit your enemies


Starcraft looks like babbys first RTS in comparison

>>245172256
>combo memorization and button mashing
>skill
see I can shitpost too

Street Fighter Arcade Edition holy shit that game is incredibly deep and complex. I don't think I'll ever bee good at it.

God Tier:
Quake (Quake World, Q3A, CPMA, QL, etc)
Fighting Games

Top Tier:
UT
TFC
SC:BW
Most RTS games
Wolf ET

Mid Tier:
6s TF2
DoD
Rhythm Games
Community Single Player

Low Tier:
Halo
CS
Chivalry

Shit Tier:
MOBA/ASSFAGGOTS/ARTS/AoS-Likes
WoW
Calladoody (Yes, Calladoody 4 Promod too, faggots)

Most of these are dead bar Fighting Games, CS, and MOBA/ASSFAGGOTS/ARTS/AoS-Likes sadly.

>people discrediting games like quake 3 or unreal tournament (pre-3)
Fuck Counter-Strike.

>>245172256
>>245172378
Sorry, didn't mean to quote.

>>245172608
those are skills though, fps games are just a faster paced gone home, you just walk around and click on the enemy

>>245172551
that's because APM is irrelevant in shooters

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>>245172378
Jealous starshitter because his game requires zero effort

>>245170234
Fuck I loved that game. Is it worth getting back into or is it dead?

>>245172746
>TF2
>anything but shit tier
Source: I played 6s Scout/Sniper at a fairly high level, even CS takes more skill

>>245172906
it's been dead for a while now, just like HoN

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>>245172897
>Fucking Draven

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>>245172897
>it's draven

>>245172825
>you just walk around and click on the enemy
You sound like someone who had the concept of shooters explained to him by a five year old

>>245173003
>fairly high level
UGC isn't high level
Neither is open, ESEA and CEVO

You're full of shit

>>245170471
iwbtg

>>245172584
When you say that, it reads as though you're implying that StarCraft II doesn't contain mechanics for ambushes, concealment or the requirement to orient your units correctly.

Moreover a lot of people seem to think skill is physical reflex only, and not a combination of learned factors such as the ability to assess your situation and that of your opponent in a split second and employ a 'strategy' to resolve it.

These sorts of threads frequently seem to contain people arguing that strategy games are either skillful or they aren't. I take it as fact that a skilled (learned and practiced) player will make mincemeat of a player merely executing a timing. I can use the example of masterful holds in SC2 which is a game I follow but I have no doubt that other strategy games have similar amazing comebacks that get talked about as well.

>>245172897
Why would they even bother using the word "micro"? Like, fucking seriously?

I've played this game, I played a hero that can use more than one unit.

Guess what happens? If the second unit moves more than 1000 units (measurement) away from your primary hero, it's INSTANTLY FUCKING TELEPORTED BACK

the game engine is so fucking limited that a unit can't roam freely, it pisses me off how many fucking people think this game requires even a little bit of mechanical ability

>>245173412
Never said I was invite lel

>>245171681
Look at Supreme commander
Try to menage exponentially growing army of tanks, navy, air, economy, factories, artillery on 10 islands at once and tell that it doesn't require skill
No matter how good you are you are nowhere near the skill ceiling

>>245173591
So you haven't played it and are just shitposting because TF2 has become shit ;^)

Fighting and RTS are pretty up there

>>245173175
NOT RAVEN
DRAYYYYVEN

>>245173739
if you say so

>>245170052
Fighting Games
Arena Shooters

>>245171243
At least try with your b8, m8.

>>245170052
>Individual skill
then I'd say Quake or Starcraft 2 yeah

Teamwork is for sure DotA 2. Anyone who says it doesn't require any skill are straight up liars.

>>245173858
You cite a skill level but you don't have anything to back it up with.

;^)

>>245172825
This is the most obvious, yet hilarious bait I've seen in a while

>>245172746
>Individual skill
>Lists team games

Please

>>245172746
>TF2
>CS in low tier.
1.6 at least deserves to be in top tier.

>>245174353
nah cs is a shit game all in all

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>>245170471

>Video games
>skill

Pick one.

>>245174420
You're kidding, right?

Quake Live

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>>245174420
:^)

>>245174053
I don't have to prove myself to you m8
plus it was like 3 years ago

>>245174441
>Chess
>Skill
Pick one.

>Football
>Skill
Pick one.

>Driving
>Skill
Pick one.

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>>245172256
every KB+M game involves pointing and clicking to some degree you turdlord

any player over 13 years of age will realize that to be competent, you have to use a degree of strategy and understand more than pointan and shootan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jQbkE09nIc

>>245172347

What is this

>>245174628
So you've never played 6s before, gotcha ;^)

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>>245174441
Look at dis guy getting rekt in MP games.

>>245174756

>implying you have any PROOF that video games take skill

>>245174441
>esports are bigger than ever
>videogames don't take skill
:^)

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>>245170174

i play lol and shit, but come on man... try to play invoker if you get to play dota2

>>245170174
But legend league takes minimill!

>video games
>skill

yeah try writing "professional league of legends expert" on your resume see how far that gets you...

>>245174918
But Invoker is easy

Tinker is harder to become amazing at.

>>245174918
i hate when people post this, invoker is one of the most easy and overpowered heroes in the past couple of patches

>>245170893

For the millionth time, Dark Souls does not take skill, it takes memory. There is a difference,

>>245174441
This post is so fucking stupid I'm not even going to reply to it.

>>245174512
cs is an obscenely slow game that boils down to memorizing spray patterns. it's commonly filled with actual mathackers even in the competitive scene. the fanbase is as rabid and vocal as the dota/lol audience about "skill" and how legitimate their game is as a "sport" and not a game.

it's awful in its most basic form.

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>>245175027
Try writing chess professional on an office job resume, see how far that gets you.

>>245175027
Why would write anything like that on your resume in the first place

>>245170687
>You can lose just because of one bad player

So can the enemy team. And since you're clearly an amazing god of everything, the enemy team is 25% more likely to get a bad player than your team is.

>>245175164
You've never played a game of CS in your life and even if you have, its on extremely low level.

Claiming its just "remembering spray patterns" is nonsense.

>>245175164

>dat obviously never playing CS or playing it and not being able to kill anybody withotu sprinting into their face with an smg and diving to the floor and killing them in two shots

Seriously, Get good. I mean that literally, not in the insulting way. Fucking get better at it.

>>245175164
Positioning is more important that remembering the spray pattern.

>>245175321
i will give you memorizing map locations but that is it. it's a skilless game made up of children.

>>245170052
>muh click speed

>>245175164
did you play one matchmaking game in go, get fucked by silvers and decide that the game is shit?

>>245175525
And team tactics
And strategies
Knowing what to do in situations
Game knowledge
Wallbangs

There is a shit ton man. Don't even deny it, the game requires lots of skill.
It's not about individual skill, it's a team game at its finest.

>>245175525

You've never played anything above low level pub games if you think memorization is all it takes.

>>245175312
What's your point? You still cannot win by yourself. I play a lot of dota. No matter how good you are, bad teammates can drag you down and no amount of individual skill can win the game for you.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/615044460

I'm the ember. A game like this is unwinnable, no matter how well YOU play

>>245170052
I loved Ragnarök Online, back in it's time. You can be a total scrub and still kick ass in PvP/GvG, but be completely outclassed by people with worse equipment and lower level, who know what they're doing.

>>245172746
>Assfaggots
They require lots of skill, the fuck you smokin'

>CS
>low
Lots of skill too

>CoD4
Requires lots of skill too, even normal CoD has a high skill ceiling to be able to compete with the pros.

I'm only commenting on these since I've played them all competitively, rest I can't give enough opinion about. Except Quake, that shit is tough man.

>>245175202
Better than video game professional

>>245175697
>And team tactics
>And strategies
>Knowing what to do in situations
all of that is highly basic, and even in cs it's even simpler. it's very slow and poor gameplay.

>Wallbangs
that's not player skill, though

>>245175525

>chess is so easy all you need to do is memorize what the pieces do

>>245176421
>Wallbangs are not player skills
Sure bud

Get over Bronze before you say call something easy.

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>>245170052

CPMA.

>>245176114
hey fuck you women get wet at the sight of video game professional on my dating profile

>>245176674

He's right, though. Anyone can do them and they're as easy as breathing.

>>245176674
just because cs is slow doesn't mean the game is hard or good.

Alliance of Valiant Arms.

It's like CS but not total horse shit with retard-with-parkinsons tier accuracy.

>>245176894
You can prefire wallbang too, just because you see someone and start shooting there doesn't mean that is every scenario.
A skilled player can kill lots of players before they even get a shot off.

>>245172612
>SF4
>deep

'09er confirmed

>>245170052
Nexuiz GPL during versions 2.3-2.5.1

>>245175107
this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS7hkwbKmBM

If this isn't skill than I don't know left from right.

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>>245176935

>>245170471
One of those indie platforming games where you have to have make pixel perfect jumps within a 0.1 millisecond window

>>245177310
I wonder what that chun-li player was feeling as that was happening.

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>>245170052
>all these shit opinions pandering to their favorite game

Hands down the hardest game to learn.

>>245177613
HOW VERY WONG

>>245175107
It doesn't really even take memory, but rote memorization. Throwing yourself into a brick wall until you break through is not skill.

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>>245170174
>they actually consider this skill

>>245171302
>people actually believe european armor was clunky and didn't allow for any flexibility

>>245177310
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqmxhEfim3M

If this isn't skill than I don't know left from right

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>>245171681

>>245177924
>walks wildly out of position
>gets ganked
>just walks back because CC doesnt exist this si league

>>245178592
Isn't this the bot script thing that does the impossible, most perfect way to deal with Banelings?

>>245177924
Not only that, but this is considered a BIG PLAY and something extremely amazing among LoL players/viewers.

Fucking pathetic game and people.

>>245178803
Yep

It was just a test by some guy to see what micro can produce, if there's anyone out there good enough to pull something like this off

>>245178803
Looks like it, seems like it detects if a marine is being targeted by a baneling and forces him to run away whilst the other marines fight.

I wonder if they could make a bot to counter this bot by having the banelings sporadically target everything every tick.

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>>245170052

>>245179038
What would happen then?

That script is insane.

>>245179005
I doubt it. That is just too insane.

>>245179131
I think I can agree with this, for the most part.

If you guys think that LoL doesn't require skill, why didn't you guys win the world tournament?

>>245179131
I wonder where War Thunders' Tanks would be on that chart. That shit takes a lot more skill than WoT.

>>245179316
>What would happen then?
Having the banelings target something else every millisecond would confuse the hell out of the marine bot. It would be forced to send a command to walk back for the marine even gets a chance to attack.

>>245179131
Love these retards that think BW required ridiculously more skill than SC2 even though they're virtually the exact same 1v1 multi

>>245179394
It's not that LoL doesn't require skill, it's just that DotA2 requires way more skill because the skill ceiling is 2x or 3x higher due to how the mechanics and meta work and don't limit you, like they do in LoL.

>>245174053
This guy is bleeding from the ass mad

Who has that one webm where it shows a SC2 player next to a LoL player?

>>245179627
the video was posted earlier in the thread

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>>245179131
I think this is more precise.
Obviously just my opinion.

>>245175905
>CoD4 requires lots of skill
No Anon, you just haven't played any skill-based games.

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>>245179485
>they're virtually the exact same 1v1 multi

>>245179751
Promod does.

>>245179131
>>245179703
Isn't world of tanks the most popular online game in eastern europe?

>>245179906
I think DotA 2 has taken that crown.

WoT is super popular though, but I don't know how much, so I can't say if it should be higher

>>245177310
I've never played a fighting game, what's happening here? Can you tell me how hard is to block that finisher move or whatever it is?

>>245175832
Thread is about competitive play, not pubs. If you want competitive join inhouses, leagues, a team, etc.
Dota 2 has a pretty high skill ceiling to be honest.

>>245179131
Flash said sc2 is a harder game that bw. Check mate atheist, debate me.

>>245180235
Yeah, I play lots of DotA 2 both solo and with a team.

The difference is immense. Skill difference is also really high in DotA 2. It does take a lot to become really good at.

>>245179485

Because not being able to have more than 1 building in a control group made SC:BW so much easier.

>Make units in SC2
>Click 4 and hold AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>Make units in SC:BW
>Have to click independently on every baracks and build that unit

Not to mention that maximum unit selection in BW is 12 units and AI pathing is much dumber (Which makes it actually better because it increases overall skillcap - better players can move big armies faster etc.) than in SC2.

>>245179906

It should probably be higher since it's a very popular casual game.
No one gives a fuck about the tournaments though on the other hand.
Plus the community is terrible.

>>245180097
I'm going to bed. I guess I'll never know

>>245179131
as a Dota 2 player, i agree with dat.

>>245180097
he is timing each one of those blocks. each kick he presses the counter button.
hes only got one hit worth of health left
its extremely risky because one miss and he loses

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>>245180097
>>245180498

Don't stroke their ego Anon. Fighting game fags will always scream "THIS TAKES SKILL" even though the majority of every match is just pokes, turtling, and 10-hit max combos or "ultimate moves" where the game plays for you.

>>245180607
Thank you kind anon. Now I go to bed a bit more wise.

>>245180521
Popularity needs to be higher though, we're almost reach LoL levels.

>>245180723
lol stay delusional

>>245180723
On the same level as SC2 i would say

>>245180684
epic post

>>245181078
Way higher honestly.

>>245181073
DotA 2 is getting close man. I don't care what game is the biggest.

>>245181154
Because yours surely disproves anything or does anything to contribute to the thread, right?

>>245181370
nice man, I like it

>>245178335
This annoys me to no end
>hurr -10 stamina -10 dexterity -2 movement

It's fucking hard to see out of some of those helmets though, where's my sight penalty?

>>245174652
>play Quake Live or whatever with /v/
>never played Quake before
>third game
>finish experimenting with this rocket jump shit and a couple of the other weapons as my whole team dies
>five dudes left vs. me
>grace of a gazelle with Pegasus wings as I annihilate the entire enemy team single-handedly
I really don't think a shooter can be allowed to be the most skillful game. It's merely reflexes and an understanding of the weapons and physics. Neither of those are particularly hard to learn.

As for ASSFAGGOTS, fuck everyone who thinks they're difficult.

Fighting games should be pretty high up, but still under some RTS games, namely starcraft, or supreme commander, or similar things.

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>>245181078

SC2 is in a popularity decline as of right now (that doesn't matter since the position at the chart is at the highest peak)

DotA2 is still rising and I think we can all agree that it's bigger than before. The next TI will be even bigger (especially after that Valve document).

WoT is a piece of shit but it's very popular so I moved that up as well.

I have to agree with OP.

Also there is no need for nostalgia goggles for starcraft 1+expansion. The first game had limiting interface, not as much micro and nearly nonexistant frames&animation skills compared to sc2

supcom > starshit

>>245181628
>>play Quake Live or whatever with /v/
>>never played Quake before
>>third game
>>finish experimenting with this rocket jump shit and a couple of the other weapons as my whole team dies
>>five dudes left vs. me
>>grace of a gazelle with Pegasus wings as I annihilate the entire enemy team single-handedly
>I really don't think a shooter can be allowed to be the most skillful game. It's merely reflexes and an understanding of the weapons and physics. Neither of those are particularly hard to learn.
>
>As for ASSFAGGOTS, fuck everyone who thinks they're difficult.

This guy knows what the hell he's talking about and I feel more or less the same way.

>>245181213
not anywhere close sorry dude

I dont play any ASSFAGGOTS, i have no bias

I can look at steam stats though and see dota2 with a peak player count of 827k today.
meanwhile I see an article from forbes that says LoL has 7.5million concurrent players

(article from january but its the best evidence i can find for LoL player count)

>>245179131
>dota 2 taking the same level of skill as CSGO
trashing this entire chart

>>245180723
As a dota player I agree you're living a fantasy

Maybe when people start watching dota games during class or in the library instead of leauge. Until then we're like a popular knockoff, its the sad truth.

>>245181975
Yeah, everyone in the fucking world knows about LoL. It's probably the most popular online game as of right now aside from WoW.

I don't know why that is either. Everything in dota 2 is free as opposed to having to pay an upwards of $USD 70 for every LoL character. Do people just hate a challenge or what?

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>Mobas
>taking literally any skill of any kind

i think high level shooters like csgo and quake, have really high cap skill. SC2 have really high cap skill as well. Though bw had much higher skill cap.

ASSFAGGOTS players stfu, your game literally, control 1 unit all game rts.

>>245181975
Yeah, don't trust Riot honestly. They bot their own streams etc.

DotA 2 has 8 million unique players this month.

>>245182264
I didn't say DotA 2 is there, but its getting close. In terms of viewership of pro matches, it's almost equal.

>>245182373
Stay in the trench.

>>245182334
most people don't have months of their lives to dedicate just to learn dota 2

So most of you guys think Starcraft needs the most skill?
Just want to be sure cause of the charts

>ASSFAGGOTS take no skill
>It's a single unit RTS
Do people seriously believe this?

>>245182507
I think Quake and SC are at the same level.

>>245182043
>muh reflex
>muh map knowledge
Stay buttmad

>>245170052
That question is inane. Skill could mean all sorts of things in this context. Are we talking pure reflex, applying game knowledge logically in strategy, or just knowing every little detail of the entire game? Even pure memorization is a "skill."

I don't know why I bother. A bunch of faggots re just going to go "SKILL IS WHAT YOU NEED TO PLAY THE GAME I SUBJECTIVELY ENJOY THE MOST WELL!" and start a shit fit with one another without even realizing there is a fundamental misunderstanding anyway.

>>245181975
Riot has never actually given any real evidence for any of their numbers that they have always spouted.

It's quite funny how they claim to have an insane amount of players, but once you go on 3rd party sites that track all LoL games played, they don't even measure up to what Riot has claimed. Very far from.

>>245182647
Yeah, honestly you can't compare games and their skill level. But I can say, from my own experience, which I find the game that is the hardest to master, which I tihnk is the point of these threads.