>doujin full of lovey-dovey stuff
>'Oh man, what was I dreaming about?'
>all men are rapist perverts
I mean I hate men as a possible romantic interest, but you don't need to make all men rapists.
Guys who support the yuri relationship are the best and always bring a smile to my face.
>I don't know if I'm into girls so I'm just gonna date some random guy for a chapter
Has this ever done anything productive?
>this relationship is sure progressing smooth and steadily, let's introduce some random love rival
The mangaka and the audience both know this shit ain't gonna go anywhere and they're just wasting fucking time.
>it's a doujin that's basically a dozen pages of some girl angsting internally about her love for another girl
If I wanted to watch a bunch of girls tiptoe around explicit intimacy I'd just watch the fucking source material. Fuck you think I'm reading a doujin for?
>tomboy/school prince angsting over not being feminine enough
Only one I ever tolerated was Sasameki Koto and that's because her love interest was explicitly into more cute, feminine types.
On the more benign end of things
It looks dumb and it kills my boner.
Agree with most except
>tomboy/prince angsting about not being feminine
As long as they don't go overboard it's a perfectly acceptable feeling lots of people have and can add a bit of sweetness to the story.
>The mangaka and the audience both know this shit ain't gonna go anywhere and they're just wasting fucking time.
I might be pulling this out of my ass, but in the case of a high rated series, it would probably be in the publisher's best interest to coax the author into finding some way to increase the longevity of the series?
Anything else is just tropes that define the genre. Love them or hate them, they're probably not going anywhere in the near future.
>Probably better to make the series longer
I'm not sure about that one, especially for yuri. Yuri fans aren't typically the buy fag type, for better or worse. Making a series last longer might help with some sales, but not really enough to justify making the author do stupid shit to the story. I can only think of a few yuri stories that really have any sale potential by prolonging it, and they're not the sweet romance kind of yuri.
Pretty much this except not only are all the girls gay but their destined partners are all right next to them.
Sakura Trick did this and pretty much ruined the "specialness" of what Yuu and Haruka had.
>he still doesn't believe that heterosexuality is just a phase
>I want het in my yuri
Never change /u/
Gonna have to get in on this. Not having a proper interaction between the yuri couple and the men who are their friends/family/whatever is just boring as fuck. Nobody is not interested in the relationships of the people closest to them.
This goes double for any sort of setting or source material or particular pairing that would definitely raise concerns or interest in basically anyone the couple knows.
Het in yuri. I mean, I don't mind irrelevant stuff like the existence of het couples as someone's parents, but I sure as hell don't want to see one of the main characters sorting her feelings for a guy.
I get you, anon. In reality, only 3-5% of girls are lesbian. That, in and of itself, makes the relationship more sought out and interesting.
Making all the girls gay/removal of any male representation just gives doubt to the "validity" of the main couple.
I'd rather that they flat out reject any heterosexual interest.
Agreed. The common outcomes seem either a total omission of male characters or randomly dating a man for a chapter or two to make the story seem edgy. The best yuri stories are recognising that their love is different and special, and dealing with the implications of that together. That's part of the reason why morinaga milk was such a big success, at least to our slightly different social perspectives outside of japan.
This mostly applies to one-shots, but I dislike it when a girl confesses to the one she likes, and the 2 girls become a couple, and then they have sex on the spot, like, give it time, man! Most girls that age don't even know how to sex, much less gay sex!
I like it when lesbian girls reject advances of men.
Agreed 100%. Even if it's a one-shot you would think the author could add a page to indicate that some time has passed. Or even better, show them experimenting and getting bolder every time. But no, it's all "OH LOOK, I FOUND A DOUBLE-ENDED DILDO LYING AROUND, LET ME FUCK YOU WITH IT!".
Yeah yeah, "purtyfag", "muh realism", whatever, i don't care
These story arcs are simply annoying to read through, you wanna have guys in a yuri story? Fine, you wanna have het side couples? Also fine. But boyfriend drama for the main characters is just unbearable to me
When you're translating h-manga and there's so many AHs and HAHs that you could usually ignore but then you discover there's actual words thrown in there so you have to type out every single one of them.
> see a yurifag friend on facebook
> he is hyped as fuck with a new yuri manga
> told me about it
its the manga of the century, yuri and wincest!!!
>get hyped too
>googled and download
> start reading
>first thing I see is this
> fuck this shit, fuck this world, fuck my yurifag friend!
>not even real wincest
I still reading it, but that make me hate Mei forever and ship harumin x yuzu
The third, evil girl that fucks with the main girls' relationship and is a homewrecker for the sake of drama e.g. Matsuri is Citrus and Ploy in Lily Love.
Anime that uses yuri troupes or scenes to make you think that watching them might be a good idea, but down the road the characters are ether straight in the end or a bislut. e.g Cross Ange and Shin Sekai Yori
The general lack of money and interest in the genre preventing manga, light novels, and vns from being adapted into anime eventually like in other genres.
>we're just doing this for practice when we get boyfriends right?
Schrodinger's shyness, or to be more specific, if in one scene the characters basically fuck eachothers brains out and in a later scene are too shy to even touch each other, my disbelief is no longer suspended.
Another one is (and this is probably a culture barrier) when basically "but it's dirty there" as if somehow they were planning to have sex without genitallia getting involved.
>strap ons are the same as dicks
I can understand why people might not want strap ons, but they're not the same as dicks and some girls like penetration, even if they like other girls.
Schoolgirls. The vast majority of yuri I've indulged in focuses on them, and while it's not really a "pet peeve" I do wish authors would branch out some more. It just really hammers home how the culture widely sees it as an immature phase the girls will eventually grow out of; I'd at least like the author/characters acknowledging such bullshit and reaffirming their feelings are genuine.
>It just really hammers home how the culture widely sees it as an immature phase the girls will eventually grow out of
More like how the culture thinks life tops out in high school and the rest is just grimly fulfilling your duty.
This. Biggest peeve... UNLESS the story reads specifically as if it'll continue post highschool. Some stories do, and those are the good schoolgirl ones.
But my real pet peeve? Magazines like Yuri Hime dropping the really interesting manga in their infancy, before they can grow. Gretel, Gurenki, the elf harem manga...
Guess why he disappeared. Yuzu does not take competition.
Citrus is actually a horror murder story about a murderous, clingy sister that likes being abused by her crush, and murders anyone that gets in the way.
>yuri hime dropping manga
to be fair its not their fault exactly. They're still a business of sorts and they have to go with what's popular. If nobody likes a story it hurts them to continue carrying it, especially when there's plenty of artists who would love to be included.
>would be a good point if YH wasn't currently dying because they aren't running anything that interests people
They're so much dying that they just went from bimonthly to monthly. YH is most likely in a better shape today than they were 4-5 years ago.
>we were good friends or somehow knew each other when we were kids but we forgot and now it's being revealed as a semi-twist early on or midway through the series to speed up the whole "falling in love" romance process so we can get to the good stuff!
>pair up lesbians with guys
when has this actually happened?
and don't use
>but I thought it was going to be different than the source material which was pure het!
excuse. Almost every time kyoani goes het it was clearly planned from the start.
I want a tora dora esque anime where a girl tries to help a male classmate date some popular girl, but in the process of getting to know her and spending time with her, the 2 girls fall in love. classmate-kun also falls in love with the girl trying to help him, and she feels guilt for falling in love with the girl he wanted to date, just to make things nice and complicated..
It's common guys have a fetish of NTR/stealing lesbian lovers for themselves "b-because my virgin cock is better then your gf oc!" Plus most otakus are self inserting faggots who:
A) Want the couple het or /u/ to never officially get together even though it's basically canon so their waifu never get taken or their purety ruined
B) It's their fetish to NTR a lesbian away from her gf or love interest to make them feel superior and the guy wins
Basically the most consumers of anime and manga are male so they try hard to appeal to their mindset to make more money.
I second this. For example, there are tons of "cute girls doing cute things" shows where people claim have at least some shades of yuri but it's pretty hard to judge since there are no fucking guys anywhere.
Lucky Star did an interesting move, where Ayano had a boyfriend offscreen that we never ever see and was only mentioned offhandedly like twice. Doesn't stop people from shipping her Ayano with Misao. To me that just shows that it's really easy to ship "we're seriously just friends, really" with each other since there's no guys around to cause any shipping problems.
It's basically only yuri because there's nothing to say otherwise and not because there's something to say it is.
Don't get me wrong, it's not like I want girls to angst over if they might be gay when they clearly are and add unnecessary drama to stuff. It's just that having at least SOME male presence helps validate the yuri.
Otherwise it's like coming first in a race where you're the only one racing.
Isn't that like saying gay men shouldn't imitate hetero sex with penetration either? If you like/want/need penetration it doesn't make you any less gay or anything. You shouldn't feel like you're doing sex "wrong".
Agreed. Nothing wrong with a character being bi in theory, but stories always seem to feel the need to show a character is bi by having them fuck around with fifty uninteresting men before they finally settle on the lesbian character that's been dying for their affections for the past few chapters/episodes/whatever... not to mention all of the "but I'm not gay!" angst that seems to come from that sort of thing. Shit's the worst.
How does that work?
From what i've seen there is primarily hate directed towards baiting. That won't attract anyone more and the people who are already watching it won't care about the bait they just want to see cute girls.
>A holy knight who feels her love for her princess is unrequited (when in actuality it is not, the princess is simply unable to express her feelings because she's been taught that she has to marry a king-to-be) comes back from saving the world only to find that her princess has been killed by the aforementioned king, and she can do nothing about it
the end of Final Fantasy Tactics.
If a studio does it the baiting properly, people who watch the show for cute pure girls will know that the girls stays pure and can imagine that if they met the girls, they'd love him. Meanwhile, people who watch it for yuri subtext can imagine that the girls will continue being friends and eventually lovers.
The only group that might be offended by it are people interested in seeing a genuine romantic development or people who want to self-insert. For the former, they probably should be looking in places other than anime. For the latter, there's already a huge market for that and there's more competition.
The key is to not put in too much bait that the purity waifu crowd gets drawn away but have enough to reel in the yuri crowd.
There's a bigger market for
>girls being super close as friends
>girls in a relationship
The former is usually called bait even if there's no het.
It's not because people hate yuri, it's just what more people want. And despite what some girls claim it's not just for the purity waifufags, I love yuri as much as the next girl here, but sometimes it's nice to just see girls being playful and having fun with each other with some romantic undertones rather than full on relationships which usually feel the need to add in drama and angst for no real reason.
While I agree it's a problem that stories with all-girls settings can make the yuri feel less valid, I don't think they should be doubted any more than stories with all (gay) men. No one complains about those needing female presence to legitimize them.
Anyway, one of my peeves is doujins where the girls don't kiss before having sex, or worse, don't even kiss at all.
This. It's such a double standard that whenever people see men acting gay, you automatically acknowledge that they're gay, but when it comes to lesbians, it's 'naw they're just pretending. They're just waiting for the right man'. People in this thread obviously don't say it like that, but it's the exact same line of thinking. It's also the same mentality which results in that notorious /tv/ trope where the lesbian has sex with a guy to 'prove' that she's a lesbian.
This isn't exactly true, I mean you have your flamers which people call gay, but no one honestly calls football players gay despite being all over men and making gay Jokes to each other.
Same way with lesbians you have butch lesbians people instantly call gay and all those girls that are overly friendly nobody calls gay. The only difference is gay guys have more flamers than girls do.
I don't know about yaoi since that's aimed at a specific audience, but girlfriend arcs/bi drama/women in general are often nonexistent in bara/gei comi aimed at gay men. Basically what >>1963784 said, it takes a lot more to "prove" a character is lesbian to an audience than it is for a gay man, even if the fictional circumstances are similar.
Yaoi and yuri appeal to different emotional connections and require different set ups to be appealing to their audience. You can't say because 1 does it 1 way the other is the same because they're both gay.
This isn't lgbt, I'm talking genres not people nor do I like you bringing 3d problems into a yuri board.
People who come to yuri tend to favor emotional and relationship connections than those that go to yaoi. This is not to say there are not exceptions, but it is a large trend.
I don't think we're going to get anywhere unless people start using more concrete examples.
For instance, I have no trouble believing everyone in Yuru Yuri is gay, because they constantly affirm it in word and deed and we see examples of adult lesbians. If we're talking subtext, I find it very hard to take it seriously in a show like K-On compared to even something like the first season of Pretty Cure.
I specifically remember one where two girls are about to make yuri when a gaggle of dudes with camcorders bursts in, staresat them, mumble to each other, then quickly apologize and leave.
That's because the characters having actual chemistry with each other is what is most convincing.
"I fucked a guy to prove I'm not into guys" is not convincing at all. It's just dumb.
>doesn't like magic babies
I bet you hate fox girl lolis too.
Improvement of lgbt rights, more and better yuri?
>bunch of comics about how hard being gay is and how we should all be treating them like super special snowflakes
Please no. I just want cute fluffy fox grils doing fox gril things with yuri and minor pedophile undertones.
This is pretty hard to avoid in Touhou at least because shit, what else are you gonna do?
You can only have so many characters pine over Rinnosuke before it gets ridiculous.
I'm totally fine with Gensokyo being a lesbian matriarchy.
if my memory still intact.
back when bubblegum crisis new thing(the remake also) fans would always talk about how the show it was implied that Priss was heavily implied to be in a relationship with Sylvie and the others with a lot subtext,it a shame there isn't fan art of it.
The fact that I almost never like the main couple in anything ever, usually because I find one of them to be insufferable as a character. Sakura Trick was the worst offender for this. Yuu just pisses me off. I still read/watch everything I can get my hands on for the sake of girls being gay, but actually liking the main couple would be nice for once.
>One of the girls is a delinquent or somewhat tomboyish and all she wants is to be more girly and wear nothing but frilly clothing and look at cute things
>The entire series is based around the chase and ends right as they become a couple
>A male character only exists to be an evil rapist
>Tsunderes that never actually act dere in the least
>I'm okay with lesbians, but dykes can fuck off.
Androgynous girls can be cute.
Excuse me for my newness but I'm not familiar with this term "Prince".
At a guess I'd assume it refers to girls who have a more overall masculine appearance/look to them without going the full dyke route (Man-pretty, I guess? Example on left).
It's usually used by schoolgirls to refer to classmates that are more 'handsome' than beautiful, so they tend to be good-looking androgynous girls. Think Haruka from Sailor Moon, Amane from Strawberry Panic, Makoto from Idolm@ster, Saber in Fate/Zero etc.
>BAD ENDS...whether minor like "oh, we can't be together, we get married and remember our forbidden time as lillies in the garden" all the way through "SHOVE ALL THE GAYS IN THE FRIDGE" bullshit.
I want my fucking yuri, and I WANT the happy ending. Gimme my goddamn "Shoujo Sect" epilogue, dammit!
Also, and I know it's stupid of me, but I hate when yuri dojins/fanfics totally shred the characters' personalities and appearances in favor of hookups. I wanna see THESE characters hook up, not some bizarre changeings with their names.
GOOD writers can find a way that stays true to the girls, y'know?
You may be surprised, but if you ever enter a store that sells soap and other hygiene products so you can start washing yourself, you'll find whole stashes filled with hair dye.
Hair dying is not, in fact, something new, strange or rare.
Alright, that sounds more like what I was trying and failing to describe. I dunno, seems like an alright concept to me. Though I can see how that'd irk some people if it seems to them like the artist is trying to make the pairing seem less yuri-y.
As for the thread subject
>The artist doesn't really seem to know how to draw two girls having sex so he just draws them in some kind of position that only makes sense if one of them has a dick
I dunno, just seems like laziness on the part of the artist to me.
>Something is tagged Yuri
>Just has girls together with zero romantic tension
>Something isn't tagged as Yuri or subtext
>Girls are blushing around each other and some of their interactions are hard to pass of as platonic
I guess to Dynasty-Scans' credit, usually the former's tag gets rearranged after a while. Still, some of the stuff they don't have tagged as either yuri/subtext has more than the ones they actually did tag as yuri.
>yuri vs yaoi
That's an already flawed comparison to begin with; yaoi is a sub genre of BL, aimed at woman. And the fundamental difference between BL and GL...well the second fundamental difference is that BL has many defined subgenres with their own codes.
GL is one big thing where genres aren't really defined; GL, yuri, rezu are terms that in the end describe the same things with no real defined codes.
I've pretty much always liked princes and such myself, though. Androgynous women, to me, are like swords; they're classy, refined, and can be either elegant or rough without feeling out of character.
And honestly, having a beauty like they do, where they don't have to be girly to be seen as pretty, is the best part. People have a hard time telling whether they're a boy or a girl, but that doesn't matter, because everyone thinks they're hot, and that makes everyone gay.
>14+ volumes of romantic tension
>mc or mc love interest does something stupid(gets with a guy or something else stupid)
>last chapter they get together but ends in hand holding or i-i like you too
Why is Yuri plagued with shit like that
Now imagine that the Prince is more feminine than the Princess.
Probably all mine have been posted, but anyway:
>non yuri end after strong b8(looking at you, stretch)
>men are rape machines - the 'saved from being hit on by my love interest'
>soft yurib8 with no actual dedication (K-ON, Lucky star...dammit I'm not asking for onscreen fucking - but at least subtle confirmation)
>relationships where sexually one always gives and never gets
These virgins fell for the "scissoring doesn't feel good" meme that fat dykes with no stamina often spout on the Internet, so seeing scissoring in yuri creates a mental block on them.
>relationships where sexually one always gives and never gets
Fuck, this so much.
And to throw salt on the wound she's always shown as the demanding pervert who wants to force sex upon the poor innocent flower that is her partner. Oh how terrible, wanting to make your partner feel good.
Followed inevitably by the "T-today I'll be taking the initiative!" scene where the innocent one fails miserably at it and has to be consoled by the other. "See, isn't the usual way better? Now just lie back and do nothing while I do all the work, as always."
To be fair in context that's usually realistic.
Let's say Kase and Yamada are going at it. Yamada is a pure flower and Kase is in fact a demanding sexual deviant, the realistic scenario is Yamada is going to be like a freshly planted flower. The potential might be there for her to one day give Kase her stamen, but until she blooms she's a helpless little plant who needs to be taken care of.
I can't imagine it feeling good. Not enough clitoral/vaginal stimulation to feel good, let alone as mindblowingly orgasmic as yuri doujins portray.
It seems very porny to me, like the author doesn't know how vaginas work. Note how female authors (Morishima Akiko, Amano Shuninta to name a couple) never draw it.
I see your point, but often it's in a situation where
>they have been banging for a while, so the innocent one should have had time to learn.
>they have no intention to ever change, as if this is the way it should be
Mira draws it fairly often doesn't she? As far as I know it works exceedingly well for some people, not at all for some, and others fall in between. Some women just like it for the closeness, even if it doesn't get them off. Both partners anatomy need to match well for it to work well too, from what I've read. Unless I was doing it with someone I was really comfortable with I think I'd feel too silly to cum in the first place.
It doesn't feel bad, in the same way drinking decaf instead of coffee isn't exactly bad. It's just pointless and annoying. I see no possible way of getting off that way, and believe me, I've tried. We were too busy laughing our asses off at how stupid the whole thing was, not to mention you can't get shit to line up right, and by the time you do, it feels more like you're trying to play tetris than have sex.
Because it usually doesn't seem like a healthy relationship where they've decided that one of them will solely be the giver. Instead it feels like one of them is so uncomfortable at the idea of pleasuring her lover that she'd rather just be on the receiving end (and grudgingly at that).
I'm not saying it doesn't work at all. I'm saying it's the equivalent of trying to scratch a bug bite with a feather. If it works for you, sure, whatever, go for it, but I have every right to question the practicality of it.
I suppose if they were fine with it, alright. But it seems unequal to me.
I absolutely cannot relate to or even understand the notion of not wanting to be pleasured by your lover (not counting initial nervousness and shyness).
To be fair, it's a foreplay thing almost entirely, and there's only a very specific way it's going to work out to be hot and stimulating in more than a mental way, and that configuration isn't the most pleasant to look at from outside the tangle.
>Play Otome Game with same gendered romance
>8 Male routes and 1 female
>Wade through a bunch of introduction scenes with annoying dudes
>Protagonist keeps talking about how hot all of the men are
>Finally get to female romance
>Introduction is very brief, non-romantic, and she has little to do with the setting
>Character A wants to fuck character B
>Character B wants to fuck character A
>They don't fuck because "let's take things slowly" even though they've been dating for a while, in love with each other and are mutually sexually attracted to each other
>They proceed to not fuck each other for 50 chapter while constantly getting into "weird" situations where at least one of them ends up naked or faceplanted in boobs/crotch, while the other gets aroused and still does nothing or they get interrupted
>Manga ends without them ever having sex, or if they do, it's offscreen
This drives me up the fucking wall.
When people use the word 'het'. Just refer to those kind of things/romantic developments as 'not-yuri'. What are people going to do? Assume that both girls were traps and it was yaoi all along? When has that ever happened outside of an doujin?
It even covers situations where the girls don't get together in the end, but don't get boyfriends either, making it far more versatile than the former.
Ease of typing onee-san
3 letters vs 7 and a dash. I don't use het as an insult or anything but it's a useful shorthand. Plus het implies male romantic interest as opposed to just being subtext. Not yuri would include things like empty subtext which many girls here still like, het means there's a male love interest or the girl is actively chasing dick, which on a lesbian image board is good to know.
>lesbians hate all men for absolutely no reason other than to "justify" being gay in the first place
>men are portrayed as evil for the exact same thing
>short hairxlong hair and yes, I love Mai and Reo
These people get it.
I love the sound she made during this scene. Shame we don't get to see Kazuha and Akira get together at the end, though I heard they're almost certainly fucking when Haru and Sora come back to visit in the VN.
Don't mind slow development but it gets to a point where all the tropes get used
( Like FF ) and then it drags on a little too long for not even a big enough reward just to maybe see them kiss once if even that.
>Constant whining in the fandom on how bad the male characters have it and how we need more male characters in yuri
Biggest pet peeve of all. But then, the same people are also crying emo tears about strapons and girls that aren't girly enough, so stupidity is expected.
>It looks dumb and it kills my boner.
>Literally everybody and their grandmother is in love with the prince
>Cheating and fucking a dude to make sure they're gay
>Every girl has the same fucking body type
>"N-no, it's dirty down there." It gets more unbearable after their first time together
>Using bisexuality as a main plot point for drama
>Any variant of "You're already this wet just from x? How dirty"
>Constant whining in the fandom on how bad the male characters have it and how we need more male characters in yuri
As far as I know such arguments are motivated by a desire to see yuri become more successful and mainstream, not because we obtain pleasure from seeing male characters in anime. The downside is that they'll use up screentime and some people will draw doujins with them paired with the lesbians, but that might be a worthy sacrifice to make yuri popular.
Also more than the show just having male characters, it's important to show that they're supportive of the lesbians or there's no point. You could have the villains of the show dislike them for it, but I think it's better if it's just not treated like a big deal by anyone involved.
It's not that we want male main characters or potential love interests. I just want some variety in my yuri beyond "everyone is a lesbian and men are rapists". Men can have great roles in yuri manga, the guys in sasameki koto were great for example. The faggots in show by rock were good but didn't diminish the yuri ships in the least. The men in symphogear (minus topdad) all manage to be great supporting roles and don't intrude on their love lives.
Sure it takes away female screentime, but of you're that scared of seeing men then okay good for you, but some of us like good stories.
The "bisexual girls always end up with men" meme is the absolute worst thing in yuri and yuri related media. It's not just manga, it's common in tv, movies, books and it's so extremely persistent.
>some of us like good stories
The quality of the story doesn't depend on whether or not both genders are represented. This whole issue is about preference, not objective quality in a subjective media.
not having any men at all present in the plot in any way at all and if they are making them total dicks is kinda unrealistic in cases and leave people wondering what the fuck is going on.
>The entire series is based around the chase and ends right as they become a couple
To be fair that is a problem that a lot of het manga have too.
You seldom get stuff that shows them being a couple over a long period of time.
That would imply dykes are actually princes. Usually the dykes even lack the female grace that princes still have and exchanged it with being butch.
How is it unrealistic? There are a lot of people in real life (myself included) who simply don't interact much with men, therefore they are seemingly not present in their lives' ”plot". Except for the assholes who hit on you who really stand out.
No brother/fathers/coworkers? You might just be living one of the plots I was just criticizing.
And i said kinda unrealistic
Actually now that I I'm thinking on it a little bit, are we just talking about original media centralized around f/f stuff or are we including stuff like fanfiction or doujinshi or whatever?
Not having any dudes around makes for unrealistic setting, which does diminish the quality.
But I've also come to hate all-girl school settings in the past few years (because that usually turns into "everyone is gay") so what do I know?
Gay men aren't imitated het sex. Gay men have dicks, and dicks go into things to get pleasure out of them. Plus, there's a part of the genitals in the colon, so stimulating it is also pleasurable. It's just obvious. Lesbians resorting to strap-ons is practically mythological, why would one girl remove herself from heat and sensation like that? Even the ones that like the toy don't use it exclusively, or encompassing an entire session.
Strap-ons are a thing that heteros assume have to be included because of all the cock worship in het society.
There you go. Easy male character that could be in a story that has influence on the plot and a reason to be there and have that influence.
Assuming you have a decent father that is.
Depends on the story/setting/MC i suppose. Can't really expect a grown woman to really have much interaction with her dad unless they live close together or if the time to meet the folks comes up, but a teen girl would probably have more interaction with daddy dearest.
However that works out is again more fuel for the plot beyond " girls kissing and diddling each other."
Considering the content and comments on boorus, I'd say the average user age is 14 years old.
The excuse is always "but you wouldn't tell me it's not gay if there are two males and a female, would you?" or "see, they're kissing!", never mind that they both are currently dicked.
And I'd call them idiots. I don't have patience for stupid people on the internet and I'll casually be as rude as I see fit. They don't know what does and doesn't qualify as yuri and I'll let them know it very bluntly.
>straight men are usually so self-centered that they're into their gf/wife fooling around with other women because "it's hot"
It sounds to me like you're just hanging around the wrong crowds.
You're a dumb namefag and a literal cuck. There's a reason your girlfriend left you.
Wtf of course lesbians (and het couples) use strapons, and vibrators, and other sex toys. There wouldn't be a market if people didn't buy that shit.
They're also good when your arm gets tired, or when you want a core workout.
>Lesbian characters that don't make my penis happy can fuck off.
My yuri peeve is anything that is made for men, or caters toward an audience who might be offended that a woman can find true love with another woman without there being an alternative reason or it being explained as "She's like this because..."
>A male character only exists to be an evil rapist
My biggest problem with that is the whole premise of their relationship being centered around a bad man. Like, they don't love each other, he's just so evil that she turns to women. It's usually ends up where a good man sets one straight, or the viewer is supposed to wish he were there to set them straight.
Yeah, I get what you mean, but a lot of lesbians have been socialized to understand sex and intimacy as an act of penetration. Even though it's not often the most pleasurable form of intercourse, our upbringing deems it an important part of intimacy so that we have to experience it as a way to get off.
It's why, even though it is a huge het thing and hats buy more, lesbians tend to be a big market.
>anything that is made for men
>women are somehow more entitled to a fictional fetish than men are
>I'm expressing my opinion of a common trait in Yuri
>On a yuri board
>I'm entitling myself to something
I'm sorry for offending men by implying that I might not want to watch something made for them specifically, and that I would rather watch something made for people like myself. I forgot about how I'm literally oppressing men by implying that things made for them are things made for them, and that I might want to watch something not made for them.
I can't begin to imagine how much harm I have done to men by carelessly expressing an opinion that conflicts with their interests. lol
Ah yeah, I re-read that and it is kinda unclear where I meant for that to expand on the first point. Sorry for my shitty comment in response.
>Why would the fact that some shows that won't/don't appeal to you in the first place bother you?
Ignoring the fact that next to no yuri is actually made for a homosexual female audience which is why those particular tropes dominate the scene. Nobody is meant to identify with or care about the relationships. That fact is annoying to me. I make no claim that men should not have yuri themed anime aimed toward them, only that it annoys me that any new Yuri is most likely for them. I found a thread where I can express that, and I did.
While this fact is obvious, I still watch yuri in the hopes of being able to see a genuine romance between two female characters, and I am routinely disappointed. this peeves me. I am peeved by watching/reading yuri and finding it geared toward men.
I don't feel I should have to explain this when the opposite is always understood.The male viewer is absolutely catered to by yuri. To imply that I am the one wanting to remove their market is absurd.
You really have to be extra sensitive to be offended that a single person within a tiny ass group tries to get a tiny thumb sized square of open cheese in a pepperoni fuck you pizza.
I think you're being unfair when you claim that yuri that doesn't have romantically involved girls are catered toward men in general It's more that they're catered towards teen boys who like that sort of fanservice.
There are plenty of men who prefer yuri to be romantic in nature, including me.
Aside from that, I share that peeve too. Especially about what you said about making up contrived reasons to explain away why a girl would be intimate with another girl.
There is yuri made for a homosexual female audience.
But like any audience that actually wants good quality content, there is usually a much, much larger audience that wants the complete opposite. And I think it's silly to be peeved by the fact the majority has shit taste.
I know it's not the author's intention but those kind of stories always give me the message of "this kind of relationship wouldn't be possible in real life" which is sad.
I can understand that. I don't mean all men, I mean men in in a general context. Their core demographic isn't interested in the relationship dynamics, and might even be turned off or repulsed by any implication that the characters aren't really bisexual and hetero-romantic. (mostly heterosexual male, and yes, predominantly teens.)
I would personally much appreciate something made for people who would would actually appreciate a deeply romantic and not necessarily sexual relationship between two female characters without any strings attached. (Mostly lesbians, but anyone who can actually empathize with and care about a relationship between women.)
Then you get people here like >>1965984
that basically embody the perception that being gay is something you do for his eyes. Women who like butch women are just not a thing worth mentioning.
As if all the peeves on here aren't to the same effect. I think it's silly to be offended by my peeve when I am an overwhelming minority in a genre that's supposed to be about my sexuality to some extent. lol
Nah, I remember reading about that. the derogatory term was the western attempt to create a opposite of Shonen-ai by calling it Shoujo-ai but Shoujo (girl)-ai was a pedophilic term.
The actual reason, and this is the root of the problem, is that female homosexuality is meant to be a stepping stone in anime/manga. It's not meant to be permanent. What we see in yuri is literally supposed to be broken up by men. To call them lesbians, real lesbians, is to add permanence to what is meant to be non-permanent feelings.
I'm not offended or peveed by the fact you're peveed. I was more confused than anything else.
And unfortunately, it's a common sight. Just look at yuri's counterpart for a similar situation.
Even if that's true (Which could be because gay=bad), they could use a general term like homosexual. However, the characters aren't supposed to actually love each other. the sexuality is supposed to be a temporary platonic experience on their path to heterosexuality and motherhood.
>Among the first Japanese authors to produce works about love between women was Nobuko Yoshiya, a novelist active in the Taishō and Shōwa periods of Japan. Yoshiya was a pioneer in Japanese lesbian literature, including the early twentieth century Class S genre. These kinds of stories depict lesbian attachments as emotionally intense yet platonic relationships, destined to be curtailed by graduation from school, marriage, or death. The root of this genre is in part the contemporary belief that same-sex love was a transitory and normal part of female development leading into heterosexuality and motherhood. Class S stories in particular tell of strong emotional bonds between schoolgirls, a mutual crush between an upperclassman and an underclassman.
Haha, the same shit still happens. you can't say it's dead when the same exact tropes are happening today and are being discussed in this very thread even beyond my discussion. The SAME exact tropes are being produced, literally to the description of Class S. Even newer stories treat the relationships and feeling exactly the same.
I went from everyone understanding that this is a problem to you now flat out denying that any of this is happening. what? Everyone here has agreed with me, everyone in this thread beside me with the same complaints, has probably watched modern yuri. I have watched modern yuri.
As a matter of fact, I'd really (And really, because I'm looking for anything I haven't seen that I might like) love to see a list of anime where the women:
Are specifically homosexual and stated as such
Show no animosity or sexual desire towards males
Have relationships that last beyond high school or/
Are not in classes at all
Are not in a world where everyone is or most people are homosexual
Do not end up with men
Do not have sexual encounters with men
I am betting the list of yuri that touches one or more of those is shorter than the list of those that don't.
What are you trying to prove here? Just because they're schoolgirls, their relationships are automatically fake?
Or that you think schoolgirls are exclusive to yuri to make it less "real", even though nearly every other anime/manga are about teenaged characters too.
>Show no animosity or sexual desire towards males
>Are not in a world where everyone is or most people are homosexual
>Do not end up with men
>Do not have sexual encounters with men
There are a lot of these.
>Have relationships that last beyond high school or/
>Are not in classes at all
Like I said above, they're not exclusive to yuri. Japan simply likes high school stories very much. You will struggle to find non-yuri not set at school too.
It's because the implication is that their homosexuality ends in high school. that is why they don't use the word homosexual or lesbian in any way most of the time.
No, let's actually run through these.
10. Yuru Yuri (Happy Go Lily)
>everyone's "gay" FAILED
Shallow hypersexual, sexual harassment, FAILED
8. Candy Boy
Shallow, hyper-fanservice, incest fetishism FAILED
7. Maria-sama ga Miteru (Maria Watches Over Us)
I haven't watched it, the description is promising Undecided.
6. Sakura Trick
Shallow, hyper fanservice, FAILED
5. Strawberry Panic
Everyone's gay FAILED
4. El Cazador de la Bruja (The Witch Hunter)
Not even Yuri FAILED
3. Kannazuki no Miko (Destiny of the Shrine Maiden)
Literally catfighting (the tragic lesbian trope as in the next paragraph of the wiki)FAILED
2. Yami to Boushi to Hon no Tabibito (Traveller Yami, Hat and Book)
Shallow, fanservice, Incest fetishism FAILED
1. Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke wo - Anata to Koibito Tsunagi
Shallow, literally a hentai FAILED.
>There are a lot of these.
Please give me examples or a list of them
Kokoro Connect was also a good example that I just watched. The single lesbian character instantly sexually harasses one of the protags and is literally all about being a sexual lesbian. She is also shallow, and denotes no permanent feelings toward women and her love is seen as something for the good protags to escape.
>It's because the implication is that their homosexuality ends in high school.
It's like you didn't even read my post. By your logic, heterosexuality also ends in high school.
Not even going to touch this.
I doubt they even consume any media whatsoever.
It's better to show a list that says "This is Yuri" rather than shows I deem Yuri by having Yuri in it. I have seen all but Candy Boy, El Cazador, and Maria-sama.
I'm not using shows that I see Yuri elements in such as Kokoro Connect because I'm trying to use something documented otherwise your answer would simply be "Prove it" I'd be "Watch it" and you'd say "LOL CAN'T PROVE IT"
It means that there is no depth to the relationship. it's literally nothing but fanservice and doesn't have depth.
Again, please show me a bunch of yuri that actually treats the relationship like an actual lesbian relationship. how many of these women have/adopt children or get married, or have exclusively homosexual characters in a relationship above high school age?
Seriously, there are thousands of adults in anime, how many of them are gay mature women? How many live with each other?
Even if there were any (there are literally some in that list), you would immediately dismiss it as 'shallow fanservice'.
Okay, let's do this first. List examples of anime/manga (doesn't have to be yuri) which you think are not 'shallow fanservice'.
Y'all have literally not named or described one anime that proves itself completely absent from that class or are made for homosexual women. I sound like an ass because you're trying to tell me something that isn't true. you're trying to win an argument by saying that you simply have to prove nothing, and that it's obvious that yuri is now about genuine lesbian experiences, yet you refuse to provide an example of this, rather, you are simply asking me to go away from the list so that you can say "Well you can't prove that what you say is true"
Actually, both heterosexual romances in Kokoro connect were very intimate, in Clannad they fucking
get marriedand most heterosexual relationships are more serious and deeply invested in than homosexual. Even stuff like Chobits and Sinon's arc in GGO is taken more seriously than most yuri and she basically gets put into a harem lol
The only exception I can find is Aoi Hana for Yuri. That relationship is taken seriously unlike basically 99% of all the Yuri I have seen.
>yuri is now about genuine lesbian experiences
Nobody ever said that. Your claim is that every modern yuri is
>supposed to be a temporary platonic experience on their path to heterosexuality and motherhood.
Our claim is that, no it's not. Literally nothing in that list is like that.
So harems are not shallow fanservice for you? That's a double standard.
Let's back this up-
>I am making the point that Yuri is geared toward heterosexual men.
>Someone asked why nobody in yuri actually refers to themselves as lesbian
>Someone explains that lesbian is derogatory in Japanese
>I explain that it's not the reason, that the word lesbian denoting permanence isn't the goal of the author, going back to my discussion about how yuri is mostly made for heterosexual men.
>Nobody even fucking tries to back up their claim, you (or someone) instantly challenge my claim by attempting to twist my words and sources. TELLING ME what I am basing my claim on.
Now, lemme seperate this for you - I used this example from Wikipedia to back my claim to one that has yet to be backed. I used that example to illustrate that my case is backed using the historical core of yuri, which is arguably still part of today's yuri.
Nobody ever provided a counter claim that it's indeed that it is because lesbianism is derogatory (Which in itself backs my point that lesbians are shafted due to perceptions of our love life)
My claim has always been that fanservice takes prescience over genuine lesbian romance and that creators deliberately leave these characters sexually ambiguous, or treat lesbianism as something that happens in a special circumstance. I used that wiki as an example to that effect in an argument that hasn't been countered.
Here is what you did-
You took that wiki and thought to yourself, that if you ignore my entire argument and focus on making me prove that wiki, you don't actually have to provide examples of your own. You shifted the entire dicussion to the wiki link, while ignoring my general point.
Now that I am taking it back to the general point, you are trying to make it about the wiki. Modern yuri, like older yuri, continues to be shallow and fanservice while commonly not having explicit lesbians, nor lesbians in implied long term relationships. Yuri still to this day leaves the dynamics of the relationship unexplored
I didn't know your argument. I joined this 'debate' when you compared modern yuri to Class S. Which is like comparing modern lesbian fiction to 60s pulp lesbian stories.
>Modern yuri, like older yuri, continues to be shallow and fanservice while commonly not having explicit lesbians, nor lesbians in implied long term relationships. Yuri still to this day leaves the dynamics of the relationship unexplored
When the story ends with the characters hooking up (like in most stories), you assume that they'll live happily ever after. Why do you single out yuri as not being long term? It's not like most het explicitly show long-term relationships either, but we always assume that they will have one.
Are you fucking retarded? Of course most yuri isn't going to have anything to do with outside of highschool same as most fucking anime in general.
>literally nothing but fanservice because I said so
Why are you people still replying to someone complaining about how highschool romance is too shallow for them?