>Still hoping for a additional content
Boy do I have some bad news for you.
Anon, it's pretty clear that Chloe is the only one that Max really wants. The player has to force her to be out of character if they want to hook her up with Warren for example.
>Just being able two kiss Chloe twice
I sure as hell hope you rewound to kiss her twice in the bedroom.
I doubt she'd say no to a threesome with Kate, though.
I subscribed to someone who did it while simultaneously used /u/ for another comic and I bought the game and so far, I like Warren. He's aloof though. I'm not a regular to this thread though.
It occurs to me that this may be the first time in a non-indie game where the most tomboyish female NPC in the cast is romance-able by a more girly female player character..
You mean you've played other games where you play lesbians that isn't a choose your choice RPG or Bethesda game?
>/u/ developed a unique lesbian-focused "purest love" culture years before tumblr and sjw culture were ubiquitous
>people now associate lesbians with tumblr
We live in the shittiest timeline, I swear to god.
> Huh. Does Max actually have to get on her tip toes to kiss Chloe?
Yes, she does.
/v/ was always homophobic but it was until recently when they started to associate lesbianism in games with SJWs and tumblr.
Waifuing Ellie from TLoU and she going gay was the thing that broke /v/, i was around...it was beautiful and it happened the same weekend Ellen Page came out, for /tv/ was also btfo.
The shitstorm was glorious.
Welcome to the new era, where anything even faintly lgbt related is sjw and absolutely haram.
Hell, if you go to tumblr, /u/ is probably a patriarchal shitlord den devoted to sexualising and obsessing over women who love women.
We cant win either way.
You're not wrong about /v/ being dickheads though
I think Molli is my favorite drawfriend.
I wonder if she goes here too.
Yeah it kinda sucks...
Anyway I've been hearing about this game for awhile now and it looks like I'll probably end up bawling my eyes out no matter what when I finally do get it.
So are there any fics anyone would recommend that take place after the game?
Either ending of Chloe surviving or not will do. I love me some tragedy
We're not talking about /u/s using tumblr, but about tumblr using /u/s.
Besides it's not like having/using tumblr is some kind of offense. Spouting bullshit, like so many stupid tumblr teens do, is.
Who the hell do you think I man?!
Nah, I actually watched a webm of the lighthouse kiss so that still counts as two.
It's not just the universe though, it's Chloe too. She's being reckless and putting herself in danger. She'll have to grow up at some point, and stop this ridiculousness, but until then I guess Max is gonna have her back regardless.
Anyone who doesn't love Chloe by the end is a monster.
Okay is this subtext or canon? Because IIRC for the final choice if you sacrifice Chloe they kiss. I didn't sacrifice Chloe but both of my friends did and they said they only hugged. Also on youtube both of the videos up shows them only hugging. Now I look like some sort of weird creeper.
Haven't played it yet but from what I've read you gotta kiss Chloe when she dares you to early in the game and just generally take her side in situations to get the kiss in the sacrifice ending.
It's canon even without the kiss. Just read Max's diary.
Still, here's a video of the kiss your friends missed. Incidentally, they're terrible people who didn't kiss Chloe and/or kissed Warren and should be avoided at all costs in the future. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q9Jvs9vuIU
Yup, same as this. It's called All Wounds.
That's true. Nevermind that the Warren kiss is like a fucking peck compared to the one with Chloe and you have to make Max a bit out of character for her to want to kiss Warren in the first place.
True but he has a point. When we first meet Warren, you refuse to hug him, you don't mention anything about leaving Warren behind in the fight until Chloe brings it up, you barely interact with him and Max seems exhausted over the going ape comments he makes when talking to Brooke (?) or whoever about it. I kinda feel bad because I really wanted to like them together at first.
There's alos the little gem in her diary where Max is all "Ew" when she writes about Dana hinting that Warren likes her. And considering how little they interact over the course of the week there's no way that Max would realistically start to like him like that all of a sudden. Unlike Chloe where there's a lot of emotions between them because of their past and all that jazz.
On a side note I just came back from watching Hunchback of Notre Dame and now I can't get this funny picture out of my head with Kate being Judge Frollo and singing Hellfire with Max as her fixation.
Any Max who kisses Warren is actually going through gay panic and trying to convince herself she isn't in lesbians with Chloe. Just see the last diary entry on the Warren route, in which Max starts to suddenly write about how she totally isn't in love with Chloe.
You can read the journal with all its variants here http://dontnodentertainment.wikia.com/wiki/Max's_Journal
The part I was thinking was
>Chloe is more than my best friend, but who knows how she really sees me? She did dare me to kiss her, but she seemed surprised that I actually did. I am too, but I don't regret it for a second. Maybe that's why I hated watching Chloe being so cruel in the nightmare, calling me names and flirting with all those people... I was surprised that it was like a physical pain in my heart. Is that the power of friendship... or love? I believe you're about to find out, Max Caulfield.
Note that unlike in the route where she kisses Chloe, Max chooses not to mention the part where Nightmare Chloe flirted with people other than her, but she still thinks it might be love.
And here's the version I actually meant to quote
>Chloe will always be my best friend, but who knows how she really sees me? I know she wasn't mad I didn't kiss her... I feel like we're more family than couple... just a couple of dorky kids who grew up in a fucked up, amazing world... Maybe that's why I hated watching Chloe being so cruel in the nightmare, calling me names and trying to hurt me... I was surprised that it was like a physical pain in my heart. Is that the power of love... or friendship? I believe you're about to find out, Max Caulfield.
Max having feelings for Chloe doesn't change, I think. You just get to choose how fine she is with them.
Some other highlights from a playthrough where you don't kiss Chloe:
>Speaking of experiments, Chloe dared me to kiss her...
>I would have, but I didn't like being dared like it was some big deal. Maybe I am scared. Of what? I think I'm too young for marriage. And Chloe and I might kill each other.
>Besides, I think Chloe sees Rachel Amber in her future...
After returning to the timeline where William died:
>I've never been so glad to see Chloe in my life. The second I saw her blue hair and that beautiful pissed off face, I kind of regretted not kissing her when she double dared me. Maybe if she had double dog dared me...
I'm pretty sure you can kiss the fucker and still get a Chloe kiss at the end. But you also have to stand by Chloe for the majority of the game, so it figures that many Bayfags would not get the kiss if they were too much of moralfaggots during their playthrough.
>The game wants you to pick her.
Well, no shit.
Anyone else think that Max murdering an entire town for Chloe is incredibly hot? This is probably the best dating sim I've ever played.
Don't you know? If you don't rescue the majority over one person you're a murderer!
By that logic letting Chloe die even though you have the choice of rescuing her makes you a murderer too.
>By that logic letting Chloe die even though you have the choice of rescuing her makes you a murderer too.
It's not like you're really "saving" the town or anyone in the game at all anyways, you're just creating alternate timelines using rewind to be where certain people are (not) dead according to Max's own convenience. If someone decides to make a final jump and pick "sacrifice Chloe", you're not really saving anyone either, you're just creating an extra timeline with no storm while the previous timeline with the storm over the town keeps running its course with its Chloe and "autopilot" Max safe by the lighthouse.
Both works are French and the film was a pretty big deal over there, so I'd imagine at least Chloe's hair color has to be an allusion. Chloe and Max aren't (luckily) very similar to Emma and Adèle as characters, though.
There isn't any proof that's how it works. It's just something Max suspects and fears.
>There isn't any proof that's how it works. It's just something Max suspects and fears.
Time is multidimensional on the real world, and unless it's specifically stated otherwise it should work the same way in a given fictional universe. It's hard to see it directly in the game since the mechanics of the game bind you to a linear experience, and that their time wasn't unidimensional like in some old movie was only briefly mentioned by Max like you said.
Agreed. Time doesn't need to work the same way in a possible alternate universe for one to experience that universe. It's just a variable, it can go any possible way, and many impossible ones we're probably incapable of conceiving.
> unless it's specifically stated otherwise it should work the same way in a given fictional universe
Really now? Who came up with that rule?
>Really now? Who came up with that rule?
You're free to make the assumptions you want, but if some aspect of a world created by an author is not clearly specified by them, you're meant to interpret it in the way that makes more sense in the context of their fictional world taking the real world as a reference.
Not that this is of much relevance to LiS anyways, the author reaffirmed through Max how time works in that fictional world.
>the author reaffirmed through Max
They did not. There's no in-universe reason for Max to know how time works. Thus, anything she says on the subject is just speculation. Dontnod clearly didn't want to explain how Max's time travel works, or they'd have made Max meet Rachel's infodumping ghost or something at the end.
I don't understand why the real world needs to be the reference. We're talking multiverse theory here, all real world parameters can be thrown out the window, that's what I like about the whole thing.
Yes. He said they hint throughout the story that this is the case, but since Max has no way of confirming it neither can the player.
Headcanon your way around it however you like but it's a sufficient confirmation.
And I'm glad he said that at least, the notion that Max is some allmighthy god literally rewriting the whole fucking universe meanwhile still not being able to achieve the outcome she wants would make the retarded story even more retarded.
It works slightly better if she is just a clueless kid creating and jumping timelines and causing havoc meanwhile.
>since Max has no way of confirming it neither can the player
>but it's a sufficient confirmation
Do you really not see how that's a contradiction?
Max rewriting a single universe makes more sense to me, anyway. We know she's capable of doing it (universe hopping can't explain the way she breaks into the principal's office), so isn't it more reasonable to assume her photo-based time travel is an extension of that, rather than a whole different ability?
>Do you really not see how that's a contradiction?
The fact that Max can't know for sure within the confines of the story doesn't mean the author can't confirm or deny it outside those confines, so no it is not a contradiction.
>isn't it more reasonable to assume her photo-based time travel is an extension of that, rather than a whole different ability?
Now you are just making stuff up.
No, rewinding time and Focus are pretty clearly different abilities.
>universe hopping can't explain the way she breaks into the principal's office
Yes it can, that's the charm of the multiverse. One universe's rules don't apply to the other. The existence of Max's ability is sufficient explanation.
You need to see the grand scale of this. It's not just that physics has become her plaything, it's that the physics is all fucked up as well. This is something bigger than Max.
>doesn't mean the author can't confirm or deny it outside those confines
If I remember correctly, he did not in fact confirm it in the tweet. Feel free to provide the exact quote.
>No, rewinding time and Focus are pretty clearly different abilities.
Both enable Max to go back in time and change things. The second one just allows her to go back further and with certain limitations.
>If I remember correctly, he did not in fact confirm it in the tweet. Feel free to provide the exact quote.
Again, asked if the timelines stay, he answered that they left hints throughout the game that they do, but they couldn't show it because Max has no way of knowing this.
I mean I guess you can cling to the "UNLESS ITS EXPLAINED 100% IT DOESNT MATTER" narrative but there is more weight to saying it is true than that it isn't.
>Both enable Max to go back in time and change things. The second one just allows her to go back further and with certain limitations.
So I guess driving and flying are the same abilities because both let you cover long distances?
>they left hints throughout the game that they do
No one is disputing the idea is mentioned in-game. However, the tweet itself never says that's how it works, as far as I remember. Besides, Death of the Author.
>So I guess driving and flying are the same abilities because both let you cover long distances?
Yes, in that both cars and planes are powered by internal combustion engines.
>Both works are French and the film was a pretty big deal over there, so I'd imagine at least Chloe's hair color has to be an allusion. Chloe and Max aren't (luckily) very similar to Emma and Adèle as characters, though.
Maybe BAE ending is a fuck you to the comic.
>No one is disputing the idea is mentioned in-game. However, the tweet itself never says that's how it works, as far as I remember.
>Is this how the thing works?
>That's what we were hinting at
It very heavily supports the idea as if he wanted to he would just say his usual "it's up to your imagination :)"
You are basically saying after all that without an infodump detailing exactly how the mechanics works no amount of hints and subtext matter.
Do you at least acknowledge the fact that the multiverse theory being planted within the story while the other isn't is an indication of something?
>Besides, Death of the Author.
I mean yeah, that sure is a valid way of interpreting a work.
Lots of people won't agree with it though.
>Yes, in that both cars and planes are powered by internal combustion engines.
That's totally irrelevant. They work differently and you need different set of skills to pilot each.
Walking and writing is both powered by your brain and yet you won't argue the fact that those are different abilities?
Besides who said anything about planes?
You can, say, paraglide and that's still flying.
In one case Max rises her hand up, and time starts going back around her, while she stays in the same place.
In the other case Max needs to focus on a photo and she literally transforms her consciousness into the point of time from the photograph. It's not just very intense long distance rewinding because she jumps into the body of her past self. Within that universe she can't do freely what she wants and as soon as she makes a change time agressively fastforwards to present day and she again jumps into the consciousness of her other self from that universe, who isn't her as they have their own life, friends, goals etc.
Those are not the same abilities.
>without an infodump detailing exactly how the mechanics works no amount of hints and subtext matter
It doesn't have to be quite as inelegant as an infodump. There were ways of objectively explaining how the mechanics work in-universe, which is something Dontnod didn't do.
>Do you at least acknowledge the fact that the multiverse theory being planted within the story while the other isn't is an indication of something?
The universe-rewinding theory is in the game, though. It's the hypothesis Max is actually using, as can be seen by the last choice. If Max really thought that version of Arcadia Bay was going to be destroyed and all she was choosing was which universe she'll inhabit, the scene would have played out very differently. The multiverse theory being talked about isn't pointless, even if you ultimately interpret the mechanics the same way Max does. It introduces an element of uncertainty and emphasizes how little Max knows about what's going on.
>Those are not the same abilities.
Not literally, but they could both be driven by the same underlying ability, i.e. universe-rewinding. I see no reason to add a whole new kind of ability of universe hopping to the equation. Besides, the first time Max rewinds, she does end up back to her body in class.
So first you are saying Max not knowing how it works is a confirmation it cant be the multiverse theory. Now you are saying her believing she is changing one timeline confirms it is a single timeline.
She also believes within the story that she creates new timelines and that multiple Max Caulfields exist how about that?
If you want to play interpretation game she could choose the final jump as a mean to create one timeline where the storm doesn't come despite knowing or believing that all the others still exist.
No, its not explained or confirmed within the story but its heavily hinted and supported by the words of devs. And like the other anon said its also the most plausible explanation for how time travel in real world could possible work without introducing crazy paradoxes.
And her first rewind was an irregularity it worked neither like rewinding nor photo jumping so its not a proof either way.
Anyway I'm done arguing with your headcanons. Feel free to keep to your interpretation i guess.
>So first you are saying Max not knowing how it works is a confirmation it cant be the multiverse theory
I never said that. I said that because Max has no way of knowing for sure, her speculations can't be taken as confirmation.
>Now you are saying her believing she is changing one timeline confirms it is a single timeline
I didn't say that either. You claimed the universe-rewinding theory is not mentioned in the game, I pointed out that it's there implicitly.
>She also believes within the story that she creates new timelines and that multiple Max Caulfields exist how about that?
Like I said, Max considers both possibilities. It shows she doesn't know which is true.
>she could choose the final jump as a mean to create one timeline where the storm doesn't come
The point of the whole multiverse theory is that she isn't creating new timelines, isn't it, just moving her consciousness to other ones?
>but its heavily hinted and supported by the words of devs
There isn't a single hint in the game, just people speculating and Max's unconsciousness. You never quoted the dev directly so I can't really comment on that.
>the most plausible explanation for how time travel in real world could possible work without introducing crazy paradoxes.
That's a bit of a moot point in a work of fiction. Besides, Max causes plenty of paradoxes.
>Feel free to keep to your interpretation i guess.
You disregarded all the hints and what Max says as "its not confirmed so its not canon" meanwhile now you are saying "her actions must mean there is a single universe therefore that theory was always there and has more weight". Not only that's contradictory, relies of your interpretation of the scene, but its straight untrue. She straight up says at one point "right now max caulfield exists in two, maybe three realities". Surely that's enough of a proof as far as her believes go there are more than one realities? On the contrary there isn't a single quote of her considering the other possibility. And yeah there are hints. The fact that devs wrote and recorded those lines are a hint from devs. There are others like Max researching quantum mechanics and modern scientific explanations regarding time travel. No, since the nature of her powers and how they work was never supposed to be explained there wont be official in game explanation but its pretty clear what they wanted you to assume.
I quoted the dev several times, but if you aren't accepting that a cap wouldn't change your mind so forgive me for not diving through one month of his twitter to achieve nothing.
And thanks yeah ill keep to my interpretation that makes sense and is supported by devs.
Here, take this.
I wouldn't count on lots of new comfy art desu
>Get the fuck over it.
>I mean there's already 451 threads in /vg/ where you can read people bitch and moan about that.
Yeah and there are 1968 places on the internet where you can express how much you loved choking on the shit they pulled. Don't see why every place that isn't /vg/ has to be a safe zone from negativity.
>her actions must mean there is a single universe
I didn't say that at all, just that Max generally seems to work under that assumption. This is mostly clearly shown in the end, where she can accept Chloe's wish to sacrifice herself for Arcadia Bay. If Max really believed she only jumped dimensions, she would have told Chloe it was straight-up impossible. Sure, she occasionally considers the possibility that she is just hopping dimensions, but she never acts like it's true. That's because Max and we just don't know how it works, though personally I find the single-universe theory more persuasive.
>I quoted the dev several times
No, you paraphrased him.
>I didn't say that at all, just that Max generally seems to work under that assumption. This is mostly clearly shown in the end, where she can accept Chloe's wish to sacrifice herself for Arcadia Bay. If Max really believed she only jumped dimensions, she would have told Chloe it was straight-up impossible. Sure, she occasionally considers the possibility that she is just hopping dimensions
And again this is where the whole thing is just your interpretation. I never got the impression that she is working under the assumption that there is a single universe nor that her actions indicate that, including the last choice.
And no, she doesn't just "occasionally consider the possibility" where she straight up says stuff like this https://instaud.io/dBB
On the other hand where is the audio of her wondering if she is overwriting one timeline? Or wondering which of the theories is true?
>No, you paraphrased him.
Yeah but I said exactly what he said. You don't consider that a sufficient confirmation and you did indicate you've seen that tweet in the past so I don't doubt a direct quote won't change anything.
Here is the tweet https://twitter.com/DONTNOD_Michel/status/660193230621794304
>I never got the impression that she is working under the assumption that there is a single universe nor that her actions indicate that, including the last choice.
If all Max does is jump dimensions, that version of Arcadia Bay will be destroyed regardless of what she does. In that scenario, her choice is about which world she'd prefer to live in, one where Chloe lives or one where everyone else lives. If that's what Max thinks is happening, why doesn't she tell Chloe that her sacrificing herself would be pointless? Is she purposefully letting Chloe misunderstand the situation? If so, why?
>where she straight up says stuff like this https://instaud.io/dBB
I don't remember that scene or its context.
>Yeah but I said exactly what he said
You did not. For one, notice the "maybe" there. He's saying they left the issue ambiguous on purpose. He also seems to imply that creating alternate timelines is some special power of Max's, when according to the many-worlds interpretation we all do that constantly.
>If that's what Max thinks is happening, why doesn't she tell Chloe that her sacrificing herself would be pointless?
Because it's not pointless? It creates a timeline where the town is not destroyed.
>I don't remember that scene or its context.
I don't think that sentence needs context. It might have even been cut but it's still something they wrote and recorded. What about pic related?
You still haven't brought up anything supporting the idea of a single universe except for your interpretations of what's happening. Cut audio would do too.
>He's saying they left the issue ambiguous on purpose.
Not really, someone asked whether A or B is true, and he replied that they hint that B is true. No matter how you look at it, if he wanted to say it's ambiguous on purpose he would just say exactly that, but he didn't.
>He also seems to imply that creating alternate timelines is some special power of Max's, when according to the many-worlds interpretation we all do that constantly.
That's really irrelevant whether it's the multiverse theory as we know it or Max has a special ability that allows her to create timelines that otherwise would never happen, the point at the moment is that the game implies there is more than one.
>why doesn't she tell Chloe that her sacrificing herself would be pointless?
> It creates a timeline where the town is not destroyed.
Which btw is super fucked up when you think about it, no matter what theory, Chloe is never really sacrificing "herself", she is sacrificing her past self that had no idea what's going on and never got to mature up into the person she is on Friday.
>He also seems to imply that creating alternate timelines is some special power of Max's, when according to the many-worlds interpretation we all do that constantly.
So Max has the additional ability of hopping from one universe to another, whereas other people can only ever exist in one. Even assuming that your choices branch out a million universes, you can only ever go in a straight line. The fact that Max can go back, effectively choosing to exist in a different universe, that's what her ability is. At least to my understanding and according to the multiverse theory.
So Haizehat uploaded the 3rd part of her AU webcomic and
holy shit it's gay
>It creates a timeline where the town is not destroyed.
That is not how the many-worlds interpretation works. In such a system just the fact that it's possible for there to be worlds where Max lets Chloe die means worlds like that exist. There's no need for our Max's consciousness to travel to that universe to ensure it.
If you are saying Max thinks there's only one universe plus the ones she creates, which is a completely different argument, the scene still doesn't make sense. Chloe and Max clearly think that version of Chloe will cease to exist if Max chooses to save the Bay, when in fact nothing would happen from her point of view. The Max she's standing on the cliff with would simply not have the same consciousness anymore, but it's not something Chloe would be able to tell.
>You still haven't brought up anything supporting the idea of a single universe
I never claimed I did. Unless you can explain the above point, that theory is implicitly in the game.
>he replied that they hint that B is true
No, he replied that they hint that B is *maybe* true. Maybe is an adverb that means "possibly". Its antonyms are certainly, definitely, surely. They left the game open to that interpretation, certainly, but it's not the only possible one. You're free to go with it, but don't act like it's the officially sanctioned one.
>That is not how the many-worlds interpretation works.
And I said this is not relevant. It's not relevant whether she only thinks it's required for her to change the timeline to ensure a new universe is created or if that really happens, the key word is that in the end there are in fact more than one universes.
>Chloe and Max clearly
>Unless you can explain the above point, that theory is implicitly in the game.
I asked you to provide a source for that claim that would be in the game. Maybe you should learn the definition of "clearly" because it clearly doesn't mean what you think it means. Yes I can explain the above point. That's simply not what she thinks. What she thinks is that Max Caulfield exists in more than one reality. What she thinks is that everytime she jumps in time she creates new timelines.That's what she says in game. Where does she say or consider otherwise? Please provide a source that is not your interpretation of the scene but actual quote from the game. I'm not interested in your interpretations.
>No, he replied that they hint that B is *maybe* true.
So you will now cling to that "maybe". Figures. Why didn't he reply that both interpretations are viable? Why did he completely ignore A?
He straight up says "Max has no way to prove it so we never directly show it". If you flip it that means if Max had a way of knowing they would show it.
>You're free to go with it, but don't act like it's the officially sanctioned one.
It's definitely one that has more ground in both story and the word of God, that's for sure.
This is the first part
>And I said this is not relevant
Of course it's relevant. It completely changes the ethics of what Max is doing. If it's many-worlds, Max has no reason to sacrifice Chloe, unless she really prefers living in a world with Warren, Victoria and crew. She might have a reason to do it if she's the only one making timelines, but that would throw out all your arguments based on real-life physics.
>Maybe you should learn the definition of "clearly" because it clearly doesn't mean what you think it means
Yet you didn't provide an explanation for what else could be going on in Max and Chloe's minds in the end. Some Chloe quotes:
>Maybe you've just been delaying my real destiny [i.e. death]
>Wherever I end up after this... in whatever reality
Neither of those lines makes any sense if they're working under the assumption that that particular timeline will keep on going regardless of what Max does, unless you think Max is withholding key information from Chloe.
I don't get what you have against interpretation. I mean, you're interpreting the word "maybe" to mean "definitely" and the baseless physics speculations of a teenager as true and reliable. So far, I haven't seen any other interpretation of the choice scene that would make sense.
>Of course it's relevant.
No it's really not. From the beginning I had no interest in arguing what is the context of the multiple timelines in this story or discussing Max's ethics in Time Traveling. The only thing I was arguing was that the existence of multiple timelines has more basis in this story.
>That would throw out all your arguments based on real-life physics.
Not really? Real life physics doesn't know for sure either how the universe works obviously. And who is to say that fiction authors can't take a scientific theory and base their story around it while not keeping 100% true to it? I mean that's what they basically did with Chaos Theory and the Butterfly effect already. Neither would cause an array of weather phenomenon including an unavoidable tornado because a girl is shot in some Oregon bathroom but here we are.
Have you read any stories that would involve time travel based on multiple timelines? Steins;Gate, Madoka, I don't know, Higurashi?
Since Higurashi is such a nice example let's compare what happens there with LIS.
you have a multiverse with infinite possibilities. The main character of the story, Rika, is trapped in a loop where she keeps dying at the age of 8 and everytime she dies her consciousness is transferred (with the help of a friendly god) into the body of another Rika. Now despite the fact that it's an universe with infinite possibilities, the god can't just pick one where Rika doesn't die, because even though minor stuff between timelines changes, there are some events that always occur without fail. One of them is Rika's death. In the end only after learning the reason and the culprit behind her death and the genocide of her village she can combat that and create a single happy timeline where no one dies and the culprit is caught.
Now in LIS such event could be Max always saving Chloe and thus for some not very smart reason summoning a tornado.
While we are at it let's compare with Higurashi's spiritual successor, Umineko at one point presents a smiliar idea.
One of the main characters, Ange, goes back in time 12 years to try and stop the murder of her family under the assumption that she is going to go back to her future with everyone alive if she manages. In a big twist at the end of one of the episodes, she is told however that her family never returned home so even on a miraculous chance that a universe with them alive is created, they won't be coming back to her, but to her 6 year old self from that other universe. In the end she can choose to either help stall the game forever and remain in an eternal limbo with her brother watching their family die again and again or break the promise she made in exchange for powers which effectively kills her but help her brother in figuring out the outcome. In the end she chooses to sacrifice herself in hopes at least one Ange can have her family back.
In LIS, how would that be any similiar to Chloe sacrificing herself so at least in some other universe the casualties to Arcadia Bay don't happen?
The multiverse theory can be a basis of a fictional story even with a spin on authors part
Real life multiverse isn't even defined by a set of specific rules anyway. We are far away from figuring out how the universe works.
>Yet you didn't provide an explanation for what else could be going on in Max and Chloe's minds in the end.
Because I said again and again that I'm not interested in arguing headcanons? I was trying to keep to what was said in game and around it and
>what could be going on in Max and Chloe's minds in the end
They are panicking with an apocalyptic looking tornado hovering above them. They keep making up reasons for why this is happening.
>It's Rachel's revenge!
>It's because of my powers!
>It's because I shouldn't live!
They are grasping at straws and have no idea what is really going on. In their confusion Chloe suggests a last resort, for Max to go back and let her get shot like she originally did. They don't know what will happen. It just happens that for some
bad writingreason, at least from Max's perspective, the tornado doesn't come the following friday.
>Wherever I end up after this... in whatever reality
>doesn't make any sense if they're working under the assumption that that particular timeline will keep on going
I dunno man, that particular line sounds like it supports the idea of multiple realities very much.
> So far, I haven't seen any other interpretation of the choice scene that would make sense.
Because that's what you are choosing to believe. In the mish mash of "we will never really know what's going and everything is possible so let's throw all the ideas to the table before we railroad you into the final choice" everything you come up with makes perfect sense.
And I don't think something not making sense should be held as an indication in this game. Many things here make no sense.
Max and Chloe going on a hunt for Nathan instead of going to the police makes no sense.
Jefferson somehow expecting to get away with a murder of 4 children within one night makes no sense
Max forgetting about the storm in the SanFran timeline makes no sense.
Max not mentioning to Chloe to tell anyone to hide or go out of town tomorrow because a storm is coming instead being like "yes, let's hide in my room, that will solve everything" makes no sense
Max going back in time so she can undo problems caused by going back in time makes no sense.
Max even attempting to focus again after she just barely recovered from a scary limbo state makes no sense
Max not even trying to see if attempting anything different, like not using her powers throughout the week makes no sense
Nothing except for saving Chloe having any effect on the timeline makes no sense.
The fact that letting Chloe die stops tornado but Max existence in a timeline she doesn't belong to and that she will continuously change in ways her clueless self wouldn't makes no sense.
That and many many more stuff makes no sense. The game just isn't very well written, man.
> I mean, you're interpreting the word "maybe" to mean "definitely"
Oh no, I'm not. I'm just saying the multiverse has more basis in this story. Based on the fact it's constantly brought up. Whereas a singular universe isn't. I guess the problem is you taking a singular universe as a standard meanwhile it should be the other way around. Also context. Context for that "maybe" exists.
> baseless physics speculations of a teenager as true and reliable
As opposed to your..baseful speculations of a physics grad?
I mean at least Max is basing her speculations on an actual scientific theory. Yours is just a wishful thinking.
I mean it's okay to believe in stuff that the game not necessarily supports. I mean look how many Warrenfags there are.
Did I just write an essey about the nature of time travel in some incoherent french lesbian fiction
>I dunno man, that particular line sounds like it supports the idea of multiple realities very much.
But it's Chloe saying it. If they think Max is just jumping to a different dimension, they should think Chloe stays right there. She seems to refer some sort of life after death, like how the Bay end implies Chloe is watching over her as a butterfly or something (unless it's actually the angry ghost of the Chloe who never forgave Max, coming to ineffectually haunt her).
But hey, good news! I actually found a place where Max explicitly talks about the single timeline hypothesis, along with the other one. It's in a diary entry after the San Francisco scene:
>So I did it. Back in my room again, erasing another timeline... or does that reality go on without me? Am I just creating knots in time?
Note that her first assumption is that there's only a single timeline, and the multiple timeline thing is something she wonders about intellectually. This fits in how she generally acts like there's only a single timeline. This, of course, doesn't prove that assumption is right.
As for the other stuff, I hope you won't mind if I don't reply to it. It's interesting and all, but it would take a lot of time and space.
>But it's Chloe saying it. If they think Max is just jumping to a different dimension, they should think Chloe stays right there.
They aren't thinking anything, they are two clueless teens that don't know what will happen. Chloe doesn't know what will happen to her whether she will stay, die, go to heaven or cease to exist.
>like how the Bay end implies Chloe is watching over her as a butterfly
Yeah, except the butterfly exists at the same time when Chloe is alive so it can't really be her now, can it?
>Note that her first assumption is that there's only a single timeline, and the multiple timeline thing is something she wonders about intellectually.
I would but when I referred to scenes where her first assumption is thinking there are multiple timelines you somehow concluded that it doesn't matter. Nice double standards.
But yay I guess, at last you have something other than your headcanon to bring up.
So there is one line where she talks about erasing timeline, immediately followed by "...or do I???". Kinda dishonest to claim it fits in with how she generally acts like there is only a single timeline when there are are lines contradcting that line I brought up and she doesn't "generally" act like there is only a single timeline.
The fact that she doesn't know for sure what is happening but is just trying to go with the flow is no new knowledge.
Anyway I guess at this point there isn't anything more to do except for agreeing to disagree.
Eh, if some people can ship chemical elements, why can't we write essays on multiverse in some incoherent French lesbian fiction?
>They are grasping at straws and have no idea what is really going on. In their confusion Chloe suggests a last resort, for Max to go back and let her get shot like she originally did. They don't know what will happen.
Speaking of, this is another thing that irks me about the final choice. Instead of going with a more neutral "Tear the photo" / "Go back" they just had to use "Sacrifice Bay" / "Sacrifice Bae". Why? Max doesn't know what any of her actions will lead to at this point. Instead of letting the player make a choice from Max's POV, like most previous choices, this one goes to the meta level and gives players knowledge and certainty they shouldn't possess unless they've read the walkthrough or something.
This also serves as a fuel for dumb bae vs. bay wars because of their use of the word "sacrifice".
>They aren't thinking anything
They aren't thinking in the sense of intellectually trying to come up with an explanation for the mechanics, but they're clearly making assumptions. They include Max being able to save Arcadia Bay and Chloe ceasing to exist, which only makes sense if they assume a single timeline. Anyway, weren't you claiming that Max thinks (i.e. her working hypothesis is) that there's several timelines? It seems you now agree that Max doesn't think that.
>something other than your headcanon
Please don't do this in future discussions. Headcanon means something baseless invented on a whim. Purposefully misusing words to discredit the person you're debating is unpleasant. If you're that uncomfortable talking about fiction on a level any deeper than unambiguous declarative statements, you're frankly doing it wrong.
>they're clearly making assumptions.
Not really, the entire point of the conversation is them not knowing what the fuck is going on and what will happen but attempting (or not) the last thing they can think of that can have some effect in some way of salvaging the situation.
>They include Max being able to save Arcadia Bay and Chloe ceasing to exist, which only makes sense if they assume a single timeline.
They include lots of things, like the storm being created by an angry dead person. Again, they have no idea what is going to happen, that's why she says "wherever I end up after this", (ie. stay here, in some different timeline, heaven) and not "I'll look over you from heaven :(" which would maybe be something that would imply a single universe.
>Anyway, weren't you claiming that Max thinks that there's several timelines? It seems you now agree that Max doesn't think that.
No, I don't. It was you who claimed based on your interpretation that her actions can only mean a single universe and I brought up actual in-game quotes that straight up contradict that.
I don't think I ever claimed Max knows for sure
there are multiple timelines though? So based on the fact alone that she doesn't she will always have to leave the room to the possibility that something else is happening.
I mean I in real life subscribe to the multiverse theory as it's the one that makes most sense based on what we know about physics so far but if I was given a time travelling power I would still be none the wiser than right now as long as I was left only able to observe a single universe. Same thing here, really.
>Headcanon means something baseless invented on a whim. Purposefully misusing words to discredit the person you're debating is unpleasant.
Except it doesn't? Headcanon is an idea that makes sense to you based on your interpretation that was not confirmed in the story as canon. Which is exactly what you are doing. Except it seems you are unable to accept that the last scene doesn't need your interpretation to make perfect sense or something?
>If you're that uncomfortable talking about fiction on a level any deeper than unambiguous declarative statements, you're frankly doing it wrong.
Now, there is a difference between being uncomfortable to talk about something which I'm clearly not and being disinterested in discussion where you are using your subjective interpretation of a piece of dialogue as an argument meanwhile trying to dance around issues and spinning or ignoring evidence.
Because these kind of arguments never lead to anything exactly like right now.
>Anyway I guess at this point there isn't anything more to do except for agreeing to disagree.
>Did I just write an essey about the nature of time travel in some incoherent french lesbian fiction
welcome to /u/, we do astronomy math and gravity calculations in the nanoha threads, debate the multiverse in the LiS threads, and spout zen philosophy in the madoka threads.
Looks like the Japanese version is set to release on March 3:
The onee-samas in this thread that have it on Steam will get the Japanese version automatically:
Hoping this become popular enough in Japan that it stokes a bunch of good yuri doujinshi.
>The onee-samas in this thread that have it on Steam will get the Japanese version automatically
No. And I will continue doing so for as long as you keep replying. Cheers.
And to kinda celebrate the soon-ish release of the Japanese version of the game here a pic of the girl how they would probably look if Japan had made the game.
I wish there were more Chloe/Rachel fics out there. I get why there isn't, we have no idea what Rachel's actual personality is like, but there's so much you could explore. Rachel (sort of?) replacing Max and potentially stopping Chloe from a suicide attempt, Rachel navigating all the popular cliques with pissed off and awkward Chloe in tow, Rachel
causing the tornado from beyond the grave and meeting with Chloe's ghost after. It's one of the more interesting relationships in the game but there's not much on it.
She was obviously fine in comic continuity before Spider-gwen. Though her most well-known thing to fans that haven't looked real hard is the neck snapping. She's known for other stuff but essentially she was one of Peter's squeezes. On a similar level to MJ.
Kinda funny considering that Peter's most famous love interest, MJ, is pretty much his second (?) love after Gwen and he's to this day not over the fact that he let Gwen die considering how he acts around Spider-Gwen.
A fact the Rami movies forgot since they made MJ his love interest from the get go, though in those films she was basically GwenJ anyway the way she acted.
I'm biased because a) I've always thought of her as Laura Palmer and b) I need to headcanon the semi-autistic Rachel's Revenge theory to enjoy LiS at all, but I like thinking of her as a manipulative someone who got into a bunch of shady shit way over her head. Ficwise I think http://archiveofourown.org/works/4615347 is the one that has it the closest to how I see her.
Even before that it was pretty obvious that Rachel would be in NO WAY like Laura Palmer was what I was getting at. That would involve something like BOB and the like and 5 episodes would never have been enough to pull a Lynch like that.
Fair enough. At first I thought that we would get something creepy and supernatural like that because of the Tobanga/tornado/spirit animals/weird janitor stuff, but. No dice unless you want to believe in Rachel's revenge.
>mfw I just finished the game
Well whatever, fuck Arcadia Bay.
Jesus Christ they just look so perfect together!!!
Somehow I read that in Norio Wakamoto's voice.
Have an even better one then.
>Max likes Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!
And someone was actually doubting she likes cooch?
It's the ghettowannabe's way of saying babe, thinking they are cool niggas. Part of that retarded shit that's been filtered thank the gods (s m h t b h f a m). In LiS context I guess they think it's funny because both are pronounced similarly, you either save the bay or the ba(b)e.
Going to pre-order the Limited Edition coming out on the 19th. Never played this game or know almost anything about it besides she has to keep saving her friend apparently. Don't spoil a lot for me but am I going to feel feels? And is it a well put together game and a well written plot?
>And is it a well put together game and a well written plot?
I'd say so, but some disagree violently. I will say that you'll probably enjoy the game more if you approach it as story about Max and Chloe's relationship rather than a scifi/fantasy mystery.
>and a well written plot?
No, it is not.
You should be noticing first inconsistencies maybe an hour into game. And the further you go the worse it gets.
The game has some great ideas and had a lot of potential but the execution is terrible.
Okay to be fair, the relationship between two main characters is pretty well developed.
Played ep 1-2 playing 3 when it finishes dling. And wow.. Even without Yuri goggles on at all, this game is pretty heavy on Max n Chloe subtext. I've ignored Warren a lot, I just can't stand beta faggots like him though, I had Waaaayyy too many guys like him try and follow me around all throughout school no matter how many times I rejected them. I saved Kate from killing herself and blamed Jefferson since I didn't tell the principle about the gun in the first place and didn't want to get suspended and took the blame for the weed earlier. Nathans is a little asshole.
So I can't save her AND everyone else Or is it really going to be-- Bay over Bae? I'll still choose her regardless since everyone else kinda annoys me.
It's not even subtext really. It's straight up text.
I had a lot of issues with the narrative of this game, but I think they executed on a very believable central relationship and their characterization of Chloe is really excellent (Max's isn't as well done 'cause she's the PC and your ability to make decisions means her personality can't be as strong).
I just wanna see a pic or fic where Chloe affectionately calls Max either to her face or quietly so no one can hear "Her Everyday Hero"