>Heaven is off the west coast of Middle Earth and you can sail there
actually you can only sail there if "god wills it" so to speak, no? because it's not off the west coast of middle earth, but rather your ships ascend into the heaven more or less literally, as the undying lands are part of "the earth" no more?
It's not technically heaven, just a place where the demi gods lived after Melkor fucked up creation. Elves are tied to middle earth, so their reincarnate. The gift of men is that when they die, they go somewhere else.
After the Noldor sailed on Valinor Eru broke the world. It went from a flat earth, to a globe. The only people who can reach valinor now are those that know the way, in special boats made by Cirdan, who is still bros with Ulmo. It's called the straight path because it's the old path from a flat world. If you watched someone sailing off for the far west you would see them approach the horizon, then get smaller and smaller, but never go below it.
I believe that was after the ring was destroyed, so we can assume the nazgul was weakened.
Yes. Also, it is entirely possible that the eagles themselves would be tempted by the ring and turn on Frodo. Boromir wasn't just some asshole; he was a hero who was corrupted by the ring. Even Gandalf can just barely resist it.
Gandalf is an Ainur, the same "race" as the gods of middle earth. Him and the 5 wizards were sent to middle earth to fight sauron.
Gimli got to go because he was an Elf Friend, and galadriel loves that dwarf dork.
The Numenoreans lived on an island in the west, in eyesight of the outermost islands of the undying land, but were forbidden to approach.
Earendil and his wife are the only humans to have ever set foot in Valinor. Beren's spirit hung out in the halls of mandos, but that doesn't really count.
>>Heaven is off the west coast of Middle Earth and you can sail there
HEAVEN IS INACCESSIBLE BY SAILING, YOU HAVE TO FLY THERE
ALSO IT CANNOT BE SAID TO BE OFF THE WEST COAST OF M-E ANY MORE THAN E.G. THE MOON CAN BE SAID TO BE OFF ANY COAST OF EARTH
THAT IS BECAUSE THE UNDYING LANDS ARE NOT A PART OF THE GLOBE ANYMORE
>still no wall around Valinor to keep filthy Numenorians out
if you put the one ring around your penis would it turn you invisible as well?
theres no technical difference right?
>Earendil and his wife are the only humans to have ever set foot in Valinor.
Pretty sure Ar-Pharazon technically made landfall when he invaded before God came down and fucked his shit up.
daily reminder that there was a super powerful godlike elf that flew a boat that fired fucking lazers and shit, to destroy a dragon so evil, that the mofo was the size of a fucking continent.
pic related is an adaptation with a smaller dragon because representing the size of ancalagon would be impossible.
>A ship then new they built for him / of mithril and of elven-glass / with shining prow: no shaven oar / nor sail she bore on silver mast
You are now aware that Valinor is the moon and they sailed there in spaceships
go away smaug, you'll be forever a shit dragon
Dwarves weren't part of Eru's divine plan, Aule just made them because he felt like it. They got their own special section of the elven afterlife presumably because there was nowhere else to put them.
i know the story up to Illuvatar finding out Aule created them and telling him they're on they're on because Aule has to carry the responsibility or some shit. I always liked how Aule's wife created ents to make sure the dwarves didn't fuck her forests up.
I just seem to remember something specific about what happens to dwarves in the afterlife.
"The Noldor believe that when Dwarves die they return to the earth and stone from which they were made. The Dwarves, however, have a different belief. They believe that Aule cares for them, and gathers them in Mandos in Halls set apart for them. Here they wait, not in idleness, but in the practice of their crafts and learning Lore. They believe that the Seven Fathers were told by Aule that the race will be hallowed by Iluvater, and that they will join with the Children in the End. Their part will then to be serving Aule in the remaking of Arda after the Last Battle.
The Dwarves believe that unlike other Dwarves, the Seven Fathers of the race reincarnate in a similar fashion to the Quendi and return to their people."
i found this online. been ages since I last read silmarillion. thanks for the correction man.
Why didn't Voldemort send a Horcrux to the moon?
Because the moon is a giant boat. Same with the sun. Do you even LOTR?
Saurons end game probably would have been the destruction on the sun and moon to cover the world in another darkness.
I think eagles would have been corrupted by the Ring, there is a risk that they kill Frodo, take the Ring for themselves, end of story.
The only one who can fuck with the Ring without problem is Bombadil. But that motherfucker is too busy doing absolutely nothing of value.
But it's not.
The sun and the moon were both created after Valinor already existed. They're remnants of the two trees of Valinor (one golden shiny, one silver shiny), carried across the sky by two Maia.
that island isn't heaven.
heaven for elves and possibly dwarves is the Halls of Mandos, one of the god's pocket realmy thing.
humans, who are the only intentionally mortal (i mean grow old and die kind of mortal) people on middle earth, have their own special heaven.
valinor is just an island where gods and smart elves live. it's called the undying lands because it's inhabitants literally live forever unless they die in a work accident or some shit.
>Remove Gollum's teeth
>Put ring on dick
>Maddening blowjobs for life
sweet deal senpai
>Halls of Mandos
small correction, halls of mandos exists in the physical world somewhere in valinor, but it's like a special building that deals with spirits.
also men also go to the halls about their spirits then do something secret and special only the god of gods illuvatar knows and understands (plus two most op gods)
elves's souls are recycled or some shit.
>their spirits then do something secret and special only the god of gods illuvatar knows and understands
let me guess, they get magic instruments and get to play in Eru's gay band for eternity
Because they are sentient beings who can also be corrupted by the ring.
Elves chill until the end of the world, then ???
humans do the same, but they know that after the end of the world they'll be involved in the creation of the next world. Elves are just sorta left wondering.
exactly, just like Tulkas could have (and for a fact had in the past) defeated all evil in middle earth, regardless of saurons ring or not because Sauron is nothing when compared to Tulkas or any Valar for that matter
the good guys just didn't care, and that's Tolkiens writing.
The Silmarillion has a lot in common with the Prequel Trilogy(Star Wars's), since it completely ruins the feeling of the original work(Lotr in this case)
Sauron at full power was defeated and humiliated by a large dog and later by a human, his boss got beaten to a pulp by Tulkas and later crippled by an elf
not to mention he got defeated by a singing elven race mixer.
Tolkiens bad guys are hilariously bad and less threatening than Kylo Ren if you read tolkiens extended universe, they never accomished anything beyond petty thievery and attempted insubordination which usually ended with them loosing their head or pysical body
>he thinks Valinor remains within the Circles of the World post Illuvatar's intervention come Ar-Pharazon's folly and defiance of the Ban of the Valar
get a load of this fucking idiot
I always thought he was arrogant and wanted to be poetic. All his horcruxes mean something to him or are symbols of high-tier magic shit. If I was him I'd make them out of grains of sand and put them all over the world.
>the good guys just didn't care
In the context of the story the Valar do care, though, which is why they don't directly come and lay the smack down on Sauron during the Ring shit.
The last time they physically made war on the Enemy, and entire landmass was broken apart and smashed to beneath the waves because of the force of their powers. They're scared of the collateral damage cause by their direct intervention.
Hence them sending the wizards to and help the people of Middle earth to do what needs to be done about the Ring. Sadly, most of the wizards fucked off from their quest over the centuries.
It's kind of dishonest to just say "a large dog" or "by Tulkas", as if these are your average dog or person named Tulkas.
so pretty much humanity develops technology makes helicopters and jets flies there anschlusses the crib and puts the remnants of a magical world whose magic has died into the gas chambers as fuel for the future of technology
yeah I am liking this
> No parent should have to bury their child...
>Sauron at full power was defeated and humiliated by a large dog and later by a human
Sauron outsmarted himself here though by reading into the prophecy surrounding Huans death. He shapeshifted himself as a copy of Carcharoth beleving that in this form he could defeat him but in reality he deafeated himself because of Huans Prophecy armor.
>be able to fly
>waste my time to fly some midget faggots to a hot volcano where there is a high chance im gonna have to scrap on with some nazguls instead of going back to my nest and fucking some eagle pussay
its pretty self explanatory familia
Why didn't Bombadill just take the ring to mordor?
They didn't fly so good
>THE UNDYING LANDS ARE NOT A PART OF THE GLOBE ANYMORE
Uh... correction, though: It was never a globe to begin with.
Arda was created with a shape similar to a ship. The Undying Lands are still to the West, but new lands (the Americas basically) were created, the world wrapped around itself, and to get to Valinor you need permission from the Valar.
Like... Elves could go. And the Istari, of course. And the Ringbearers. And possibly Gimli because of his friendship with Legolas and Galadriel, but it was actually left a bit vague as to whether he and Legolas would get there.
But I'm pretty sure you don't fly there. Earendil's ship flew, but I'm pretty sure that was it. You just go more westerly than most ships.
Wasn't it implied that Tom Bombadil was a spirit of those woods? He probably couldn't leave.
Why didn't the eagles just bring a bucket full of lava to Frodo?
Why didnters on soo-side watch(squad)
We've had nothing to eat but maggoty bread for three stinkin' days!
Forget about Heaven. It is a silly place. Let the elves suffer an eternity living in this dying Earth, while man enjoys the virtues of not being eternally bound, even in death, to this miserable planet.
Those that seek heaven but were not chosen fail to enter the kingdom and are guided down the river towards hell. The idea is that people who make premature attempts at entering heaven, usually end up in a state of hell
Except Frodo, Bilbo, Gimli and Sam all die in the UNDYING LANDS.
Frodo supposedly goes to his own personal purgatory after he dies to reflect on his pain suffered throughout the last third of the story before finally moving on into infinity.
The Undying Lands are only UNDYING for Wizards and Elves who are born immortal. It's presumed Legolas and Gandalf are the only ever surviving members of the main cast.