The Oncoming Storm edition
Reminder that /r/DoctorWho ranks who!
Poll 1 (main):
Poll 2 (misc.):
Polls close on the 6th of February but this may change
that's a very nuwho-centric view
if you look at it from a broader perspective you see that the essentials of the show have remained unchanged forever, it's only the trimmings that change
Eh I suppose. i just like series 9 felt more like Classic, especially Under the Lake/Before the Flood, so I find it easier to accept that this is still the same show as Classic but just New in this day and age. If that makes any sense.
How's it going, /who/?
I've been working my way through rewatching my Troughton-era DVDs in chronological order since the missus gave me The Enemy Of The World for Christmas. I'm looking to pick up the remaining stories in the series (Web Of Fear, The Moonbase, and Underwater Menace) in the near future. However, I keep seeing reviews that say The Moonbase DVD is terrible due to some sort of faulty remastering process. Can anyone fill me in on what's wrong with it?
Season 1 or series 1?
I like season 1 because the First Doctor was a crotchety old cunt and I miss that. Capaldi's Doctor brings that back a little, but with some warmth that makes sense (given his history and past adventures).
Series 1 (2005) already feels quaint. Which is silly because it's not that old and I watched it all live, but there are plenty of moments that remind me of cheesy series or B-movies from decades ago.
I can't even hate the Slitheen any more. I have a shit-eating grin on my face throughout most of "World War Three". It's just so stupid and such a product of its time, I can't bring myself to keep disliking it.
Yeah it feels different but as >>65049807 says the broad strokes of the show remain surprisingly the same.
You can watch "An Unearthly Child" as a NuWho-only fan and holy shit, it's an episode of Doctor Who.
Reminder that spinoff of The Face of the Enemy
Has anyone tried to cop a feel on Jenna? To see if her ass is really that soft
Has anyone ever tried to feel a cop? To see if their ass is really that soft
Can any of you make Hartnell's "Hmm?" sound?
I only just realized how hard it is to say out loud.
It's a consonant with a closed mouth so raising the pitch at the end is pretty difficult.
Heaven Sent relies a bit too much on the lore.
Not entirely, but it makes the episode better. I could imagine someone unfamiliar with the series being confused, even if you gave them a quick primer on the Time Lords, Gallifrey, and the Hybrid.
Which is a shame because I liked showing Blink to non-Doctor-Who people. I always got the response: "Holy shit, that was great. What other episodes should I watch?" and then I'd draw a blank.
All eps are up.
If someone has the BluRay itself and can check the format (1920 x 1080 @ 50i / 1440 x 1080 @ 50i / 1280 x 720 @ 50p) and finds out that it's a 1080 copy then I could make either an 810p or 1080p copy, depending.
Moonbase NTSC DVD is probably shit. I did the PAL version. Check it out for preview purposes.
Doctor.Who.S04E06.The.Moonbase.DVDrip.x264.AC3.iNTERNAL-VRiSFAGS Full complete
(Bonus: Photo Gallery | Coming Soon | Lunar Landing) Eps only = 1.05 GB | 1.34 GB total size
Whereas if you come to a thread about that terrible show and complain, you're a proper mature grownup?
The show demands proper attention to encoding. It must be done. Some of these bonus features kill me now with the new super-accurate methods. This one is 32 different film + video clips stitched together. Each has to be designated by start + stop frame number.
The links are dead anyway, there was too much blowback and copyright infringement reporting. People like this maybe >>65056930
Inverse telecine film segments with no decimation / ChangeFPS to 50 from 25
Yadif mode 0 the 25fps video segments with Telecide backup, ChangeFPS to 50
Yadif mode 1 the 50fps video segments
Crop the 720 x 576 video to remove black bars, rescale with sharp methods to 4:3 or 16:9 with horizontal resolution the same
AviSynth as frameserver, x264 as encoder. MKVtools to mux audio and subtitles in. SubRip to OCR subtitles into plain text, hand correction.
Same. I thought the Gallifrey misdirect into an episode about codependency was clever. Also having Face the Raven as her ending (I know it's her technical ending as she dies there, but you know what I mean) was bad because her whole arc was becoming like the Doctor, and if that means recklessly dying well that's pretty morbid of a condemnation of the whole character of the Doctor. Making it so she pretty much literally became the Doctor - faulty TARDIS, complicated backstory, adventures with an interesting sidekick - justifies the Doctor's existence, and the plot machinations of Hell Bent preserve her well-written death too. It all works. Ambitious, sure, but Hell Bent is the only NewWho finale to have no big "end of the world" stuff, it's effectively a character piece, which is even more ambitious in a way. Really loved it.
Why are you asking me? I didn't really care about her; the Gallifrey bits of the episode were a misdirect. The episode wasn't about Gallifrey.
Implied she took care of him as a boy, see Listen for more details
She makes reference to many boys potentially coming back to the barn. Keeps it up for them. Really let it go to shit over 4.5 billion years ago during the Time War though, despite it being right near a big dome city on Gallifrey (where it was Baghdad x 1000)
ahahaha you fucking deleted your post because you were wrong? This isn't reddit, it's anonymous 4chan, who cares?
for record, his post said
>thinking people would fall for this
You're retarded, it's obvious the article is fake."
Sorry, probably a dumb question but who was Donna's grandpa and that time lord woman who spoke to him in the End of Time?
It sorta felt like they were the Doctor's parents when I was watching. Or at least they played the Doctor's parents at one point in Doctor Who history. I'm sorta new to the series and haven't watched the old episodes before the reboot, so not sure.
It looks kind of far away in this shot.
Don't worry mate, not a dumb question.
Donna's grandpa is called Wilf. He was in some non-canon Doctor Who movies in the 60s (as a different character of course!).
He appeared in Voyage of the Damned (a christmas special of the New Series with Tennant) then lots of Series 4 episodes, as Donna's grandpa. He was then in The End of Time, Tennant's last episodes.
He's not the Doctor's dad or grandpa or anything, just a very nice human the Doctor really likes.
The Time Lord woman is unknown. The writer of the episode considered her to be the Doctor's mother but left it vague on purpose so people could decide who she was - so you can think of her as his mother, his first girlfriend, his sister, whatever you'd like.
>but who was Donna's grandpa
Wilf, the GOAT would be companion
>that time lord woman who spoke to him in the End of Time?
RTD wanted her to be the Doctor's mother, but as he didn't include that officially in the episode, he wants fans to decide for themselves who she is
The Doctor's half human. Wilf confirmed for father.
The real question is, did Davison's daughter result from his boning Rassilon's daughter (as mentioned in Hell Bent)?
answers everything but just so you're aware, Doctor Who has never been rebooted. The new series (eccleston/tennant/smith/capaldi) is a REVIVAL because it's a continuation of the old series. It's all canon. you dont have to watch the old episodes to enjoy the show, but it is the same show.
Wasn't the whole planet surrounded by orbital Dalek bombers such that they could functionally blow the whole planet up though? It was all blue skies and chill when he showed up there as War Doctor to drop bologna on them with The Moment.
>The real question is, did Davison's daughter result from his boning Rassilon's daughter (as mentioned in Hell Bent)?
...no. Moffet was explicitly explained as a character. A wonky female genetic clone thing of the Doctor. Not his literal daughter. :/ You didn't get that? It's outright stated at least three times in the episode.
And him being that close makes it a bit off that the Time Lords couldn't scan for his Tardis and find him easy as fuck, even if he did park it a ways away and walk to get to the barn. stop him from using the Moment, go full beings of pure consciousness, checkm8 Doctor
Since we're on the topic of things we're confused about concerning pre-9th doctor stuff.
It was mentioned a few times, mostly in the Tennant run, that the Doctor had an actual family and even a child. What was the deal with that?
Rassilon and his table had already fallen at that point, just the War Council was left and the black woman man who wasn't a woman or black.
So they weren't going beings of full consciousness but they were still seemingly able to track The Moment after he graffito-tagged that wall.
How would that make sense? She's the Doctor's grandaughter. Possibly Rassilon's wife's grandaughter. Not Rassilon's grandaughter.
His first companion, in Season 1 (of classic who) is his grandaughter. He is stated/implied throughout tonnes of little references through the 50+ years of the show to have
*had a wife
*had kids (vague on the amount or gender)
*have a grandaughter (who we explicitly see, Susan, his first companion)
Oh, I know who Wilf was. He's an awesome character. I was just thought he was something more since he was the one that the Time Lord woman communicated with.
Shame he was never brought back in the later seasons. Is it fair to say that Moffat generally doesn't use characters or concepts from RTD's run? Like I haven't seen that Time Lord clock that contains the Time Lord's memories. I think that's a pretty nifty plot device that could be used at least once every season or two.
Oh and the Doctor's clone daughter that regenerated seemed important enough to bring back or at least refer to.
And Captain Jack, but maybe that was dealt with in Torchwood. Haven't really gotten into the series yet so don't know how he ends up.
>that Time Lord clock that contains the Time Lord's memories. I think that's a pretty nifty plot device that could be used at least once every season or two.
I think that would get rather old pretty quickly if they kept using it for stuff.
The 'President' whose daughter the Doctor stole wouldn't have been Rassilon, I got the impression Five Doctors was they met. In general, ol' Rass is a legend from early Gallifreyan history, like their King Arthur or something - the Doctors seemed freaked out by the idea of meeting him, especially Troughton.
He told Clara he boned out the President's daughter. If she made a female baby as a result then the President would be the maternal grandfather and the Doctor would be the paternal grandfather.
No looms / no bully.
>Is it fair to say that Moffat generally doesn't use characters or concepts from RTD's run?
Its weird. He wanted Donna to stay on but by that time RTD already wrote an ending for her and Barrowman was supposed to appear in Series 6 but he was too busy in US.
The Daleks didn't have the capability to blow up Gallifrey, and depending on the size of their ships would be completely invisible during the day. And since the barn was in the middle of nowhere, the Daleks had no reason to waste effort on just shooting randomly in the desert.
Rassilon = King Arthur actually works really well now that I think about it, he's even brought back to his homeland in a time of need. And the Other = Merlin, especially as they're both McCoy in the end
>Shame he was never brought back in the later seasons. Is it fair to say that Moffat generally doesn't use characters or concepts from RTD's run?
Generally yes. He references stuff from RTD occasionally (the midseries 6 finale has a few explicit references for example). More now than he used to. Series 9 has a lot of references to RTD stuff actually.
>And Captain Jack, but maybe that was dealt with in Torchwood.
When you do, I'd probably ask here for a good order. There's a few good Season 1 episodes, quite a few good season 2 episodes, then season 3 is RTD's masterpiece. Don't watch season 4; season 3 is the perfect ending and season 4 is pretty bad.
>Oh and the Doctor's clone daughter that regenerated seemed important enough to bring back or at least refer to.
She is never seen again, Moffat disliked the episode (so did I). RTD didn't even like it that much in the end (you can read about that in his biography if you care about him loads).
My bad, I thought it was the President's wife not daughter.
Loads of little references to family stuff but Susan is the only super explicit one.
That makes a lot of sense.
Yup, time war was off screen pre Eccleston. you see gallifrey and timelords every now and again on classic who. The Deadly Assassin is a good gallifrey ep if youre ever interested.
The Hybrid arc seems to be what Dalek Kan was referring to as inevitable (The DoctorClara in time, made to be The DoctorDonna then), which he merely accelerated. The memory wipe of himself as opposed to the companion seems to be another callback to these events.
Ah, that's a shame. Fun character and ridiculously good looking. Think there's any chance of seeing him in the coming seasons? His role in Arrow seems to be decreasing from I'm seeing from the show.
Here's the real Rassilon and Omega
It's always possible, Moffat likes him and he'd be happy to return, but BBC/Moffat doesn't like bringing back characters for fanservice so there'd have to be a story there for it.
He is explicitly referenced in the Series 6 finale, the 50th special, and two times in Series 9 at least.
>Rassilon and his table had already fallen at that point
But then why does End of Time act like the Doctor's still in the process of doing shit?
>PRESIDENT: What news of the Doctor?
>TIME LORD 1: Disappeared, my Lord President.
>TIME LADY 1: But we know his intention. He still possesses the Moment. And he'll use it, to destroy Daleks and Time Lords alike.
>TIME LORD 1: The Visionary confirms it.
So then I am right in saying they (rassilon and the council) could easily scan for the Doctor, especially since he's "visible" from the Citadel and still and Gallifrey and they should've easily been able to find him and stop him?
Okay, so River and Doctor's timeline. Correct me if I'm wrong.
The Silence is the Library episode is canon the last time River sees the Doctor, and the last Christmas episode is the canon last time the Doctor sees River.
The Library episode is also where the Doctor first meets River. And the first time the actual River saw the Doctor was in Lets Kill Hitler.
But at what point do they actually fall in love? It seems that other than the last episode, each episode was about how surprising it is that they're married.
Alright so im sure theres some kind of hate for people that go into Who with the Matt Smith run but im one of those people. Seen all his episodes and started watching Capaldi's. Should I go back and watch Tennant's and the ninth's? Or are they way different than the newer series? I really have no interest in them.
>I believe that the classic who series still had an intact Gallifrey, right?
Yes, although the Doctor's race (Time Lord) wasn't revealed until the end of season 6. The same episode was the first time we see Gallifrey, but it didn't have an official name until a few seasons later with the 3rd Doctor.
In terms of it's use as a setting, it didn't happen all that much and when it did happen it tended to be in political aspects, not personal. So we never see or hear anything about his family when he's on Gallifrey.
The Doctor hated Gallifrey and wanted nothing to do with the other Time Lords, however they were heavily involved with the Doctor's life.
They have a pretty strict "non-interfering" policy and the Doctor had a bad habit of becoming part of events throughout time. By letting him continue traveling the Doctor is sort of in debt to them and basically have to do what they say or he'd face the consequences of time meddling.
If you never watched the classics and are interested in seeing how the Daleks and Time Lords interacted before the Time War you should check out Genesis of the Daleks.
The Final Chapter is an updated version, nearly twice as long. It includes 2009. It's not a sequel, just an updated version of the original.
I mean if you have no interest in Series 1-2-3-4-2009 Specials then don't watch them. You can go Matt SMith > Capaldi > that's it if you want. What do you want us to say?
They're not way different to Series 5-6-7-8-9. They are different but you can tell it's the same show. You can tell it's a different showrunner though. Maybe you'd like it better than Smith/Capaldi, maybe not. Either watch them or don't. It'd nbd.
Moffat's seasons reference the Classic era much more than RTD's. RTD's is pretty much entirely self-contained; there isn't even the tiniest reference to the classic era until Series 3 (yes you could count the monsters as references but they are given appropriate explanations/origins, the picture of McGann is first time we get a legit older Doctor reference)
Don't watch older eps if you don't want to. If you finish Capaldi and want more Doctor Who, feel free to start Series1/Eccleston. Or don't. It's not a big deal.
>but if someone told me they're really worth watching or better than Smith and Capaldi's Id want watch them.
Why should anyone do that though? You're just some anon. You seem nice enough but why should anyone write up a diatribe trying to convince you? It doesn't matter at all. Watch them or don't.
It's self-contained though. Series 1 could have been an entirely new TV show. Everything is self-contained. Moffat's era is when some outside knowledge would actually enhance what you're watching. This isn't a condemnation; I actually prefer Moffat's era.
No harm in watching them really. You could try a few episodes. If you don't like the feel and tone or whatever then just don't finish it. The beauty of Doctor Who is that you can watch it however you like.
Doctor Who is a show designed to allow people to jump in and out pretty much all the time. Every once in a while they bring up something form the past, but they do it in a way that sort of explains exactly what it was for people so they don't need to watch it.
Now I would recommend you go back and watch 9/10, but it isn't all that important. When the show came back in 2005 it was revived as a scifi drama, as opposed to your classic scifi show. RTD (Showrunner for series 1-4) seemed to make things more dramatic than Moffat's (current showrunner) Who. It sort of evolved to the show we see now, so jumping back things will probably seem different to what you are used to.
I thought it was fucking fantastic but it had direct relevance to some academic work I was doing at the time on creativity and artist myths so I'm bias about it.
If you have any interest in
*life of a gay man in his 50s in the UK
*creativity - is it innate? A skill? A talent?
then you'll find it intriguing at the very least
You have a weird kind of expectant tone about this that is putting people off. I'd recommend watch some 9/10 episodes and see if you like them. Series 1 has a strong character arc throughout the whole thing like Series 8 does so I wouldn't pick and choose there, just watch the whole thing if you decide to. But out of Tennant you could watch
*The Girl in the Fireplace
*Human Nature / The Family of Blood
*Silence in the Library / Forest of the Damned (has River in it, so might be an easier stepping stone for you)
as some examples.
>seems crazy that it took 6 seasons for that to be revealed
The original show was meant to make the Doctor as mysterious as possible. He was always vague about where/when he came from. Season 2 is when we first see another Time Lord, all though at the time we are just told they are from the same place so they could continue to be mysterious.
The show changed a lot with the second Doctor, they wanted to establish it more as a scifi show, with that they wanted to establish the Doctor's background as an alien (we already knew he was, but with it rarely mentioned it never seemed like a big part of his character.) so they gave his race a name.
>Was it ever explained how that one Dalek made it into a time locked Gallifrey when the Doctor couldn't?
It was a random fluke of using emergency temporal shift. Doctor even called it impossible, so probably not something you could try and replicate without fucking up and fucking yourself up in the process. And not without drawbacks, Caan was even made "insane" by the experience.
>is it safe to assume that they died in the Time War?
No, his parents (if he knew them or not) likely died beforehand. His wife likely died or left him beforehand. His other children possibly died or left him beforehand.
Remember, the entire Classic Show takes place PRE Time War, and his relatives are barely mentioned in that. They were probably already gone.
But yes dying in the Time War would work for some too.
As for Susan, his grandaughter, a few things could have happened to her. Some audio dramas address this, but it's up to you whether you accept them as canon or not (Doctor Who doesn't have a set canon, pick and choose your own).
The Time Lock isn't in effect anymore, what season are you upto? It's disabled after/during the 50th anniversary.
By Davros' words it was by accident. The Dalek wasn't actively trying to break the time lock, it just happened. Nobody, not even Caan, knew how it happened and without any sort of context the Doctor wouldn't really have a way to replicate it.
Either you're misunderstanding me or I made my point poorly. Possibly both.
I'm not saying RTD didn't obliquely reference classic era elements - the show has fucking Daleks. I'm aware of that.
I'm saying it was self-contained. It could have been a new show, the way RTD dropped mythology. It was casual and new viewer-friendly.
Moffat isn't some arcane lore spinner, but his stories do sometimes require outside knowledge. The Night of the Doctor legitimately has far less impact if you're not aware of Eight's audio companions. There's no moment like that in the RTD era.
Again, I don't think this is a problem, or that a certain way is better than the other, but it is different.
>you feel the weight of decades of quality being subtly referenced.
u might, a casual wouldnt, and they wouldnt miss anything. thats his point. moff eps now and again require classic knowledge, rtd didnt.
Wasn't Gallifrey an utopia before the Time War? 10th doctor talked about how the war changed them. So, what could have possibly killed the doctor's children? Or were the children not capable of regeneration?
And I'm fully caught up. I know the time lock is disabled. I should have made it past tense. Should have said that since Capaldi didn't visit him family when he returned, his family must be dead by now.
>Wasn't Gallifrey an utopia before the Time War?
No. The Doctor mostly hated it. But he chose to remember the best of it. If your family all died in a car crash you wouldn't remember the times they annoyed you so much as the times when you loved them most. He outright states this in The End of Time Part 2 to Wilf.
>10th doctor talked about how the war changed them.
It did, but they were already pretty bad by and large. The upper classes at least.
>So, what could have possibly killed the doctor's children?
Disease? Suicide? Even if they could regenerate (all Time Lords can), you only get 12.
Also, not sure if you know this, but a huge point of contention in the fanbase is whether the Doctor is pure Time Lord of half Time Lord, half human
In the 90s Doctor Who movie he states he is half human on his mother's side. He could be lying, but the Master uses a machine to examine his biology and it confirms it.
The New Series largely ignored this, until the Series 9 finale where Ashildr speculates on him being half human and how it would make a lot of sense. Moffat likes the idea. I like it and consider it canon (the movie said it, and nothing ever outright contradicted it on TV).
So perhaps his children had human in them. Maybe interfered with regenerating or something. Make up your own story if you'd like.
>is it safe to assume that they died in the Time War?
No. While it could be a possibility we have no clues as to the fate of his family, before or after the war. The fact he left Gallifrey with just his granddaughter seems to imply he was responsible for caring for her. I think the best theory is something happened to them before he started going on adventures. Susan lived on future Earth where she made a life for herself, getting married and having a kid. She probably didn't get involved with the Time War, and there is no way the Doctor would allow it if she wanted to or was forced to by the Time Lords.
>his parents (if he knew them or not)
I think he did, in the TV Movie he says he watched a meteor shower on Gallifrey with his father.
>I think he did, in the TV Movie he says he watched a meteor shower on Gallifrey with his father.
There you go. As you probably know but the anon we're talking to wouldn't, the TV movie was actually a backdoor pilot for a proposed series that would rewrite parts of Doctor Who mythology: turning Cybermen into "Cybes" and giving the Doctor's father a character ("Ulysses") and making the series about finding him.
For another example, consider how Magician's Apprentice/Witch's Familiar assumes that the viewer is going to accept the logic of "Davros as a continuously recurring villain", whereas a non-Classic viewer remembers Davros as That One Guy who showed up once, and didn't he die then anyway?
>the Master uses a machine to examine his biology and it confirms it.
From what I recall the Master only noticed his eyes were human. Whether or not he was actually part human has never been established.
Part of what ended up killing 7 was the blood transfusion. When he was conscious he tried to tell them he wasn't human and by operating on him they would kill him. Since regeneration rearranges all the cells in his body, it would make sense his blood would as well which at the time was mostly human blood. Add to the the fact the Master has known the Doctor his whole life, him only noticing 8's human eyes seems to imply the human traits were unique to that incarnation.
But to non-classic viewers they conveniently showed and mentioned the fact they have run into each other many times before. You wouldn't need to have seen the classics to understand their relationship goes way back.
Not that they don't have history, just that Moffat decides to drop in "Davros pops up again pretty much inexplicably after being seemingly killed" completely casually, as if he expects the audience to understand that that's a thing that happens. Classic fans got it and weren't especially bothered, I imagine a lot of New Series fans were a bit confused and annoyed.
This is exactly what I mean. Not a big deal, but it is noticeable.
This is all theorising after the fact. It's perfectly okay to have the Doctor be full Time Lord in your head mate. It likely will never be clarified. But the fact is, he's explicitly intended to be so in the movie, and Hell Bent reaffirms it's likely.
That was the Fox / Amblin / 1994 version though
>But the fact is, he's explicitly intended to be so in the movie
Funny, because in the same movie he explicitly says he is "not human." What was intended was the idea the 8th Doctor had human characteristics.
You're literally completely, absolutely, utterly wrong.
He states he is half-human.
The Master confirms it.
The writers confirmed that's what they intended.
The TV movie intended him to be Half-human, half-Time-Lord.
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BELIEVE THIS.
DOCTOR WHO HAS NO CANON.
YOU CAN BELIEVE HE'S FULL KLINGON IF YOU WANT.
I don't know why people get so mad about the simple, provable fact he was intended to be half-human in the movie. Just disregard that part of the movie as non-canon if it bothers you. But don't lie about the movie's intentions. It's just embarrassing.
1) I don't understand what you're trying to say. The point of my post was that, as Doctor Who doesn't have a canon, these technical arguments about his race are unnecessary. What is your point trying to say?
2) The writers of the TV movie never intended him to be human; they intended him to be half-human. You know, like they literally state in the film.
I will repeat my point number 1, since you didn't address it
1) I don't understand what you're trying to say. The point of my post was that, as Doctor Who doesn't have a canon, these technical arguments about his race are unnecessary. What is your point trying to say?
Now I will respond to your post:
I literally just stated: "The writers of the TV movie never intended him to be human; they intended him to be half-human. You know, like they literally state in the film."
Again, what are you trying to say? Nobody is arguing he's full human. I'm saying Doctor Who has no canon, and that the intention of the TV movie was for the Doctor to be HALF human
We're on /tv/, don't be surprised if some faggots call everything they don't like "reddit". It's the current obsession.
The polls are being successful and by this time next month we'll have a new rankings chart. That's all that matters.
I'm not the poll anon, I just saw a post by him saying that about 40-50 people had voted a few days ago.
As for hints, he said that a S9 episode that /who/ seemed to dislike has been doing very well in the poll. Wouldn't be surprised if it was Hell Bent, though personally I'm hoping for Girl Who Died.
By the way, I would love to have another chart.
No it wasn't. The writers stated it was their intention. In the film itself, the Master confirms it's legit by examining his retinas.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE THE DOCTOR IS HALF-HUMAN. BUT IT IS INDISPUTABLE THAT WAS THE INTENTION OF THE FILM.
Hey I don't mind the polls but they literally are Reddit - quantifying enjoyment of media into numbers with a huge dataset. There's no nuance. No acknowledgement of depth. It's just STEM shit.
You know I'm right. It's why you posted a conversation-ending reaction pic instead of, you know - using your words. Because there's no combination of words that can prove me wrong. Because I'm right.
>Under the Lake
That two-parter is legitimately my least favourite episode set of NewWho. I am not kidding. I liked Manhattan Daleks better. I think that two-parter exemplifies everything wrong with NewWho.
Luckily I loved the rest of the series.
Rationalisation, the post.
You are impossible to converse with. You are not engaging with any of the points I am making. You don't understand I'm literally supporting your viewpoint, just from an out-of-text point of view.
>That two-parter is legitimately my least favourite episode set of NewWho. I am not kidding. I liked Manhattan Daleks better. I think that two-parter exemplifies everything wrong with NewWho.
Why? I mean it wasn't GOAT but what was so bad about it to you?
I don't really wanna talk about reddit here - too tiring. I'm on this site for a reason. but google "stem circlejerk reddit" or shit like that if you wanna go down the rabbit's hole.
i didnt loathe the lake twoparter, but i thought it was typical whithouse - underused villain in le quirky location, angsty speech about the doctor, no real interesting plot to speak of.
Does the intention of the film matter, though? It didn't really match the intention of any other Who, previous or afterward (until Hell Bent).
Should we assume that Missy has translucent snake powers, just because it was shown in the TVM?
I think Whithouse has a few interesting themes/obsessions, but he has little variation. Every Whithouse story is monster + neat location = angsty Doctor. Vampires in Venice lead to Rory making Matt Smith all frowny, and basically the exact same thing happens in A Town Called Mercy and Before the Flood.
Whithouse is a decent writer, and I think The God Complex is a classic (apart from the dreadful "Amy Williams" scene), but the guy isn't exactly brimming with big ideas.
He tries to be Moffat so hard but he's just so vanilla and keeps harping the "hmmmmm the doctor may be a pretty bad guy sometimes" note very hard.
For me, the issue with Whithouse is that he's extremely formulaic, with just a monster + a weird location. Vampires in Venice. A minotaur in a quirky hotel. A robot assassin in a Wild West town. Ghosts on an underwater base. And the themes and scenes he keeps returning to aren't all that interesting to me. The Doctor getting told off in Before the Flood is the same scene as the Doctor getting told off by Rory in Vampires of Venice, and the same basic idea as the angsty Doctor we get in A Town Called Mercy.
To be clear, I usually enjoy Whithouse's episodes, and I certainly don't hate the idea of him showrunning. But I don't think he's particularly grown as a writer over the past five years, and he doesn't seem to have enough ideas to be in Moffat's shoes. Apparently, Mathieson comes in pitches with at least 20 different ideas, and people like Harness and Dollard come up with wacky ideas like a moon-egg and a magic trap street. But when handed the idea of "ghosts on an underwater base", Whithouse delivers... well, just that, and not much more.
Though to be fair, "normal place with paranormal monster" is sorta Doctor Who's bread and butter...but I think 21st century Doctor Who ought to have a higher expectation for new ideas than the exact same approach that's been done to death since the late 60s.
>muh STEM shit
Fuck off with your buzzwords.
I don't know what Reddit likes or dislikes, but I've seen plenty of charts made by users voting in a poll on 4chan. Not to mention that polls are used literally EVERYWHERE on the Internet, including the vast majority of reviewers.
If you don't like to judge an episode with a numerical rating that's fine by me, but stop saying it's something alien to 4chan (because that's what "reddit" implies).
It has a lot of good character moments, people mostly dislike it because of clara's ultimate conclusion I think
>put down all of your weapons
>dramatic slowmo shot of capaldi dropping his spoon with bass punch for extra effect, cheeky reference to Robot of Sherwood
>"Who does he think he is?"
>"The man who won the time war, sir"
You aren't engaging with my posts. My main point is Doctor Who has no canon, therefore the reader's interpretation is supreme. You can believe whatever you want. That's the idea. Most of us have headcanons we like. That's how the show's written.
The TV movie's intent was for the Doctor to be half-human. The writers have explicitly said so. It is also explicit in the text.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with refuting the idea personally. Most people do.
>Does the intention of the film matter, though? It didn't really match the intention of any other Who, previous or afterward (until Hell Bent).
I am literally agreeing with you. This is my point. Doctor Who has no canon. The writer's intentions don't matter a great deal particularly with older media.
I'm also saying the writer's intentions were clearly to set the Doctor as half-human.
>No you aren't. I'm saying the doctor is not half human, you're saying he is.
No. I. Am. Not. I'm saying the writers of the film intended him to be half-human. I'm saying it is literally perfectly legitimate for you or me to think he is a klingon - there is no canon. Reader interpretation is supreme. Can you truly not understand that viewpoint, and also understand what the writers were going for? You doing alternate interpretation like it being a ruse IS THE IDEA. That's what Doctor Who supports. But the writer's clearly didn't intend that to be the case - and my point is that doesn't matter!
>Not to mention that polls are used literally EVERYWHERE on the Internet, including the vast majority of reviewers.
I'n sorry, I meant that reviewers use numerical ratings, not polls.
fair enough mate. i personally dislike them and they really do typify the reddit mindset to me but i won't deny polls in general are common. i just think they represent the sort of userbase of reddit (ranking stuff, making "objective" rankings) than 4chan (anyone making their point, anonymity).
no reason to get worked up mate, it's okay for two anons to disagree
But he isn't Half Human. The books comics audios and NuWho have all contradicted it now. Even the TV Movie contradicts itself when 7 says explicitly says hes "not human". You're wrong.
dont worry mate, i got what you meant. i actually loathe reviews using numbers too - critics sometimes spend upwards of 1500 words on a review. you cant boil that down to a numeral. there are complex points to be made about literally every film beyond "it was good, 5+" or "it was bad "-5"
Reminder that S8 needed to be bright and saturated because it was boring without the orange tint
Are you trolling me anon? I'm a bit tired and I only really want to engage with you if you are being earnest. I'm all for a chat with a fellow /who/re about Doctor Who, but if you're just trying to incense me by missing my points that's not really cool.
I'll assume you're being earnest.
>Even the TV Movie contradicts itself when 7 says explicitly says hes "not human".
Nobody in the movie, in the production staff for the movie, or in this thread has claimed he's human. The point is he was intended to be half-human in the film. Not human. Not Time Lord. Half-human.
>But he isn't Half Human. The books comics audios and NuWho have all contradicted it now.
That has absolutely no relevance to my point mate :/ Do you see how many times if referred to intent/intention in this thread? The point I'm making there is that the writers intended for the Doctor to be half-human in the film. Intended. Wanted to make it so.
What part? Saying Doctor Who has no canon? The BBC have confirmed this time and time again. Saying the Doctor was intended to be half-human in the film? It's explicit in the text and by the writers out-of-text.
>The books comics audios and NuWho have all contradicted it now.
Mate...this is literally my point. Doctor Who has no canon. You can pick and choose what you want. I could disregard all the books/audios/comics, hell the TV show if I wanted, and just personally consider the film canon. Or do the inverse. It doesn't matter - the power is in your hands!
I think you could sum up my biggest problem with it as a complete and utter lack of ambition - it does absolutely nothing new. The whole thing seems to build to a "wah-wah" punchline of "who wrote Beethoven's 8th?" and I was literally sitting slack-jawed at that line going "That's it? We spent a whole two-parter just talking about something that The Big Bang covered in ten minutes? Even then, we didn't need an explanation of it!"
But also I think a lot of other things just absolutely misfired. The Fisher King was a bad, generic villain (with a great design, mind), Paul Kaye was absolutely wasted playing a one-note joke that had already been done three seasons ago, the setting of Before the Flood was both wasted and pointless, not to mention its weird "don't meet your past self" plotline going nowhere and affecting nothing. Toby Whithouse seems to want the Doctor to be an angsty 90s anti-hero in a way that's just boring and dull now that he's not obsessing over the Time War. For some reason, they killed the black guy first and had a woman die to feed one of the male characters' angst, which is so crass and overdone for a show that normally is savvy enough to recognize those cliches and not play straight into them.
It's just a leaden, boring, predictable two-parter that exemplifies everything I don't want the show to be.
But it doesn't matter what they "intended" since it's all been contradicted at this point. I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to prove he's half human. He's not. But yes of course doctor who has a "canon". It'd ridiculous for it not to. If it didn't have a canon then nothing is canon. The TV Movie falls under the non canon grid. 8's first story is officially storm warning.
Look how dull and boring this is, it isn't exciting at all
>But it doesn't matter what they "intended" since it's all been contradicted at this point
But that has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm saying. I'm saying Doctor Who has no canon and thus we can pick and choose elements we prefer. That is my point. That is what I'm saying anon.
>I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to prove he's half human.
Anon, I am not doing this. I am stating
*the filmmaker's intention was for the Doctor to be half-human
I am NOT stating
*the Doctor is half-human
I AM stating
*Doctor Who has no canon, so you can take the Doctor as half-human or full TIme-Lord, or any other race what you want
>But yes of course doctor who has a "canon"
Are you new to the fandom? Doctor Who has no canon. This is a well-established fact.
The definition of canon is works accepted as a legitimate part of a broad story or universe, by the owners of the IP.
The BBC own the IP.
The BBC have never, ever - in over fifty years - claimed there is a Doctor Who canon.
This is an excellent article on the matter if you have the time: http://www.paulcornell.com/2007/02/canonicity-in-doctor-who/
>If it didn't have a canon then nothing is canon.
The point is that viewer's form their own personal canon.
>Saying Doctor Who has no canon? The BBC have confirmed this time and time again.
your opinion is not canon
>Players will encounter new and original monsters, in stories which form part of the overall Doctor Who canon.
Great, you have the tiniest most minuscule reference to the idea of a canon, that the BBC have never followed up upon. How about actually engaging with and attempting to refute any of Cornell's points?
I really don't want to engage with you anymore; you're being ridiculously obstinate. You do realise we're not disagreeing right? We both consider the Doctor full time-lord. We both consider that part of the film non-canon. We're differing in you having an obsession over the tiniest points of legitimacy in a ridiculously huge fictional universe filled to the brim with differing stories.
How about you actually read that TARDIS Core article you pulled the link out of?
Okay. Are we done discussing this then? We don't seem like we're getting anywhere. I doubt either of us want to spend loads of time arguing with each other. Agree to disagree then anon? Unless you want to read the Cornell essay and argue about that.
Anon. I'm sorry. I was just pretending to be retarded. I didn't think you were going to keep replying to me. I feel bav you put sob much effort into your posts. I'm so so sorry. I'm a big douche. I'll make it up to you somehow though.
Also for what it's worth>>65063576 isnt me.
I forgive you anon. The idea of canon is just so antithetical to Doctor Who that it gets my goat when people try to force it into it.
Protip: shitposting shitty memes like IDKWIA or martha's crooked teeth is infinitely more fun than doing discussion shitposting.
>shitposting shitty memes like IDKWIA or martha's crooked teeth is infinitely more fun than doing discussion shitposting.
But that stuff kills /who/. "At least discussion shitposts kind of encourages people to discuss.
>I think you could sum up my biggest problem with it as a complete and utter lack of ambition - it does absolutely nothing new. The whole thing seems to build to a "wah-wah" punchline of "who wrote Beethoven's 8th?" and I was literally sitting slack-jawed at that line going "That's it? We spent a whole two-parter just talking about something that The Big Bang covered in ten minutes? Even then, we didn't need an explanation of it!"
You know, that's a very good argument for disliking the episode, but it's also why I liked it, in a strange sort of way.
Literally every other episode of S9 tried to do something new and original for Doctor Who (which I am completely in favor of), but imo most of them had some problems that prevented them from completely doing justice to their ambitious concepts.
Lake/Flood was an okay-ish traditional two-parter, but because of the nature of the season it actually felt refreshing to me. I'd go so far as to say that it's the only story bar Heaven Sent (and maybe Face the Raven) that succeeds completely in what it's trying to do, if only because what it's trying to do is less ambitious than immortal Viking girls, political Zygons and found footage.
It's funny because I'm usually the first to dislike this kind of Who, and I'm not a huge fan of Withouse's other episodes, apart from The God Complex. But I suppose that one comparatively well-crafted traditional story in a season full of interesting but flawed episodes ends up being the original one.
I don't think it was well-crafted. The resolution seemed to be based on contrievance (A scream lures ghosts into a cage somehow?) and second part heavily relies on faking its setup with unsatisfying real explaination.
>The resolution seemed to be based on contrievance (A scream lures ghosts into a cage somehow?)
As far as they knew, their master was calling them. It doesn't seem too far-fetched.
>and second part heavily relies on faking its setup with unsatisfying real explaination.
That's something Who has been doing for a while. I knew the episode was going that way since the mention of the bootstrap paradox at the start, but the way it did it felt more satisfying than "Oh my God, the Doctor is dead, oh my God, the Doctor is dead, never mind, it was just the android from the Hitler episode".
They didn't spell it out at least. Generally, he didn't even need to fake anything like this, he just did because he saw the future. Thus making it stupider.
In Series 6 there was geniune assasination attempt and even after it being foiled question of who and why persisted toward more elaborate and coherent explaination.
>They didn't spell it out at least. Generally, he didn't even need to fake anything like this, he just did because he saw the future. Thus making it stupider.
True, he only did it because he had seen the future. However, I think the way the story presented it worked better than most bootstrap paradoxes we've seen, because of the way the past and future parts of the plot proceeded together. Rather than being about witholding information that the characters kmew until it was time to make the clever twist (although there was a twist), we saw the characters reacting to events in real time. The fact that it "spelled it out" made it more enjoyable to me.
>In Series 6 there was geniune assasination attempt and even after it being foiled question of who and why persisted toward more elaborate and coherent explaination.
>Time of the Doctor
>elaborate and coherent
That's debatable. And anyway, it doesn't make The Wedding of River Song any better.
>Moonbase NTSC DVD is probably shit.
Yeah, that's the one I was referring to. Thanks for this, I can't wait to check it out!
I came across two of the three I'm missing earlier while shopping and grabbed Web Of Fear. I'm a little sad that they ditched the animation in favor of stills for the missing episode footage.
What's the deal with McCoy's acting in early audios?
You have some great, nuanced performances in stories like Master or Death Comes to Time, but there are just as many that are terrible, like Dust Breeding or Unregenerate!, where he's crap and keeps delivering his lines with weird inflections. He didn't get consistently good until about 2006.
Did he just phone it in whenever he didn't like the script?
A mediocre story with a few interesting reflections on the War Doctor's character.
I didn't dislike it, but there's no denying that you could do much better with concepts like the Time War and the War Doctor.
It will absolutely improve because it's three different and better writers than Briggs, but a lot of the groundwork has already screwed the pooch.
It's not like Big Finish's worst boxset or anything but it's doubly disappointing because Hurt should have had something much better. It just feels like an "okay" Eighth Doctor boxset, like Dary Eyes 3 or something.
>tfw Ianto, Gwen and Rhys' voices in the new audios
Seriously, it's like they recasted everyone except Barrowman.
Just for the record, what is Big Finish's worst boxset?
My money's on either Gallifrey V or one of the post-reboot but pre-New Adventures Bernice Summerfield sets (Road Trip or Legion).
Just listened to Project Twilight, that was pretty good and seemingly very important. First Mention of "Zagreus" which I know is a future story and has something to do with that rhyme the doctor did. Had Vampires which I read that Time lords and vampires had gone to war before and the doctor sure acted like it, and then the Forge which /who/ said is a recurring thing.
>tfw it was a ruse and Tegan will never meet 12
What is the unique, defining villain or "nemesis" of each Doctor?
2 - maybe Yeti?
3 - Delgado Master
5 - Mara
6 - Valeyard
7 - Fenric
War - Daleks
9 - Sadly I think it might be the Slitheen
10 - Weeping Angels
11 - Silence
12 - Missy
I fucking HATE people who say "Dr. Who" it's fucking Doctor, not Dr.
He's not even a real doctor. I fucking despise people who say that. It's so retarded. Why can't you fucking write "Doctor"?
He also said it was in the wrong century. And the wrong planet. Also in Husbands he said he's not a real doctor.
That was in the 60s, they were retarded.
Thanks, they're just retarded.
>Also in Husbands he said he's not a real doctor.
Didn't he only say he wasn't a surgeon?
>The Doctor: This might be an alarming question in the circumstance, but... you really do think I'm a surgeon, don't you?
You're wrong. Neither the Slitheen nro weeping angels were a defining villain for the Doctor's you listed.
May not be unique, but 9 was Daleks, 10 was the Master, 12 will probably be the Time Lords by the end of his run, 1 is Daleks again, 2 is Cybermen
>le Reddit boogeyman
I have a theory of why Clara loved traveling with the doctor so much and was "addicted" every time after they would get in danger or anything Clara would get pissed on wine and after so many times of getting drunk directly after an adventure she eventually thought she was addicted to the traveling when in reality she was an alcoholic
4 should be the black guardian, you had a whole season dedicated to the key to time, then Armageddon factor with the black guardians henchman, followed by the doctor having to put a randomizer on his TARDIS to escape the black guardian
But anon, we already know she was actually addicted to.
Does this trigger /who/?
It was basically about a guy who got his shit fucked up, had a fuckdoll robot made in his likeness, fucked said fuckbot, watched fuckbot fuck a load of men and women while crying and masturbating, and getting cucked when Captain Jack came and laid the fuckbot.
It triggers the Moffaggots down at the Vaporium.
Hey, that's be awesome if you could do it. I expect to post the results on Feburary 6th, but I could keep it open for another week if /who/ thinks it's a good idea.
We've currently had 59 responses. Last year we had 63 by the end, so perhaps we might surpass that?
As for hints? Well, I don't want to give too much away, but the top 10 looks very different at the moment to what it did last year. Fan favourites have dropped and underdogs have risen.
The favourite doctor poll shows no surprises generally, but the rankings are pretty positive. There's very little negativity when it comes to some of the more unpopular Doctors in other areas of the fandom.
1. The Daleks
2. The Cybermen
3. The Master
5. The Master
6. The Valeyard
8. Dalek Time Controller
War. The Daleks
9. Gas Mask Zombies
10. Weeping Angels
11. The Silence
12. The Time Lords